No Sweat

[BallinD]

Not sweating Kennard's shooting again 4 games substantial minutes and the kid has not one turnover.  This tells me that he still plays with poise and confidence.   Would it be nice to see him dropping 20 in preseason games? It sure would but those days will come.

Reggie is only getting burn right now to show he's trade ready he will be traded people I can feel it.

Hope you're right. Reggie will not give shots to Kennard or anybody not named Dre or Weggie. SMH, here we go, 2016-17 season 2.0 unless SVG grows balls, buys a brain, gets some heart. Let's send him to OZ for a tuneup.

[WTF]

Not sweating Kennard's shooting again 4 games substantial minutes and the kid has not one turnover.  This tells me that he still plays with poise and confidence.   Would it be nice to see him dropping 20 in preseason games? It sure would but those days will come.

Reggie is only getting burn right now to show he's trade ready he will be traded people I can feel it.

[deusXango]

BallinD, sad to say, this teams offense doesn't appear to be geared to passing the ball (particularly up the floor) or assists to be "successful." The coaching staff has this insane idea that we can bore our way to wins.

We've not had a coach nor do we have one now. Has anyone really listened to the drivel that's been coming out of SVG's mouth? A great coach would've had a team identity by now and a set course, but we still stumble around our coaches ego. The current Pistons should be playing and developing their young'uns with the seasoned vets coming off the bench in support of them...for my money, the young guns are more capable to compete than the seasoned vets, so why not prominently feature the youth? We ain't got no coach.

How many back-to-backs do we have this year? I don't guess it matters because we've got twice as many excuses for failure.

These are a few things I could clearly see last year, but were shot down when mentioned...I'm saying 'em again!
Ish Smith should be our starting PG.
Harris and Ellenson should be our starting forwards.
Stanley Johnson is our 6th man.
Reggie Jackson should be traded A.S.A.P.

Things I see, so far, this year.
Galloway should be our backup PG, not SG.
Kennard should be our backup SG.
Bullock should get 15-20 minutes every night.
Reggie Jackson should be traded A.S.A.P.

[deusXango]

The season is almost upon us, and this season is really tough to predict, so let's see how the brave souls of this forum do it this time.

Because of the nature of this season, I think it's fair to give a prediction before the season starts, but you have the opportunity to change the prediction up until 10 games into the season.

A lot is at stake this season,

1. The future of SVG, Reggie & Drummond
I can do without SVG and Reggie, going forward, but I remain confident that Drummond will amount to something.
2. Will Bradley stay or go
Yet to be determined. How much chemistry will he, SVG and Reggie have?
3. Will Kennard even get a chance to be in contention for ROY consideration
Will the kid even be in the rotation? Galloway is SVG's favorite as backup SG, even over Bullock!
4. Will Stanley "Get it"
He's got it, fo' real!
5. Just how good is Ellenson and can he knock Leuer out of the lineup
What does the eye test tell you? Did anyone hear SVG sing him praises? Hell naw, he won't knock Leuer out of the lineup, as long as he's being anchored by SVG's fat ass! He knocked Harris out of his spot and fans fell for the B.S.

And that's just a few of the hot subplots going on with this team.

I'll kick it off: I was going to say 52 wins(I originally thought 54), almost entirely because of how weak the east is, but this last game on the road where they mostly faded and Bradley is already somewhat injured, I question how well they'll do away from LCA. I'm going a bit conservative this year and predicting 42 wins, while hoping for more.

Last Seasons Predictions: Sparma Won

Regular Season
Member	Wins
Stones	49
DX	49
Lemonpen	49
Oracle	48
Phil1980boy	47
Sebastian	46
Murph	46
BallinD	45
Merc	45
Wise	45
Fly	44
Cool Breeze	43
Sparma	42
Fennis
Sissy

[deusXango]

Bradley has missed two games in a row... what's going on there!!![/b]

Could it be that he wants to see, up close, what type of player Reggie has developed into? I've read and heard how he'll be a boon to Reggie by picking up his slack on the defensive end, but has anyone asked him how he feels about that? Sure, Bradley will defend the best guard on the opposing team (their PG), but what will Reggie be doing offensively to justify starting? I think this is the beginning of Bradley's decision making on if he'll stay or go after this season; the man is smart enough to realize this setup involves more than Reggie, but his coach, SVG, is the puppet master.

As fans we can interpret Bradley's absence anyway we want, but how are we viewing Reggie's presence? I think what we're seeing is the true Reggie and the play of 2 years age was a blip in his career. He came to Detroit and grabbed onto Drummonds coattails, but instead of riding to the top with this extremely gifted big man, he's done more to drag him down and all with Van Gundy's blessings.

[Oracle]

The season is almost upon us, and this season is really tough to predict, so let's see how the brave souls of this forum do it this time.

Because of the nature of this season, I think it's fair to give a prediction before the season starts, but you have the opportunity to change the prediction up until 10 games into the season.

A lot is at stake this season,

1. The future of SVG, Reggie & Drummond
2. Will Bradley stay or go
3. Will Kennard even get a chance to be in contention for ROY consideration
4. Will Stanley "Get it"
5. Just how good is Ellenson and can he knock Leuer out of the lineup

And that's just a few of the hot subplots going on with this team.

I'll kick it off: I was going to say 52 wins(I originally thought 54), almost entirely because of how weak the east is, but this last game on the road where they mostly faded and Bradley is already somewhat injured, I question how well they'll do away from LCA. I'm going a bit conservative this year and predicting 42 wins, while hoping for more.

Last Seasons Predictions: Sparma Won

Regular Season
Member	Wins
Stones	49
DX	49
Lemonpen	49
Oracle	48
Phil1980boy	47
Sebastian	46
Murph	46
BallinD	45
Merc	45
Wise	45
Fly	44
Cool Breeze	43
Sparma	42
Fennis
Sissy

[BallinD]

Where are the assists?  They will come in handy if we wanna win any games.  Not much from Weggie (2) (3-8 fg), Galloway (2) (5-15), but Ish chipped in with 8, to go with his 22 points (10-14)

Where is the defense?  Nobody knows.  

Where are the shot blockers: Dre with 0, Ish with 2 (and 2 steals), Tobias with 1

Where is the coaching?  Oh wait, we got SVG.    SVG:  "Reggie had a really, really rough night," he confessed, while not admitting he ignored the advice to stop playing the fool on the second night of back-to-backs.

On the positive note, Dre did hit 6-6 FTs.   SVG: "Shoot, he's gonna be shooting technicals for us." LOL

With the season opener around the corner, here we are again, waiting for Weggie to get revved up.  So far he is taking shots, not passing, nor assisting, nor running an offense.  Here we go again: 2016-17, waiting for Weggie to round into shape so he can dominate the ball, walk it up the court, pass to himself, smirk and sulk.  

Even the slappy pseudo journalist Vince Ellis had the temerity to suggest in his post-game article in the Freep, that we might be better off with Ish vs Weggie to start the season.  Are people beginning to wake up.

Will WTF's prophecy come to pass?  Are we witnessing the end of the Weggie era?  

[Oracle]

Ish & Galloway showed up big!

The youngsters sucked... HARD! Both are young, so on the road is a learning process. Kennard basically had nothing, Ellenson had nothing, but did score a bit in garbage time against guys that likely won't make the Raptors team. I will say that the scores Ellenson had in in garbage time were pretty damn impressive!

Obviously others sucked as well because we got crushed.

Bradley has missed two games in a row... what's going on there!!!

[cool breeze]

Now that Marcus Morris is gone, a number of other Pistons are stepping up.  Harris looks great as always, regardless of what forward position he plays, or whether or not he starts.  But Ellenson, Leuer, Tolliver, Moreland and even Stanley Johnson and Reggie Bullock are stepping up and making the most of Morris' minutes.

The above mentioned forwards evidently want to play, as opposed to holding team meetings to bitch about their teammates.

Players had good reason to try to iron things out with a private meeting last season. Where have you been Murph? I have been on a lot of teams and can't recall when we didn't have a players only meeting. You do that when the team chemistry goes sour because one or two players somehow forgot the goals the the team set before the season started. Players drift off course and become selfish or fail to provide the effort needed at their specific position. They sometimes are thinking about a hot date on the biggest game of the season. Meanwhile the rest of the players get pissed off because those players get off course. That is where leadership comes into play. Every great team I can think of had great leadership from within the people who actually play. Coaches have a role but players actually decide outcomes especially when thinking about the long haul of winning championships or being known as a player who played on a losing team. Most of the time the culprits who screw up the works come to their senses but never without team leaders standing up to call them out. It is not necessary to speculate what would have happened last season if Isiah Thomas had been forced to play basketball with some of the highly paid players on the Piston team last year. He called out teammates when he was a rookie.

The important thing about last seasons players only meeting which was limited to "one" by the head coach is the fact that the meeting was called by players who were tired of losing and being embarrassed because of the way some of their protected teammates approached playing the game. Certain players were not sharing the basketball and missing their shots or turning the ball over a lot. Some of the same players screwing up the offense were AWOL on their defensive rotations as well. Do you call that bitching when men making millions of dollars a year still want to play basketball the right way and get upset because they have to play with the coach's pet players? Nobody needs to tell you who those players are do they? Those players who called the players only meeting wanted the team to correct their current downward path into the toilet. Instead one of their teammates complained to the media about the tone of the meeting (players were not politically correct perhaps) and SVG then ridiculed those players and declared that would be the end of players only meetings. SVG was upset because he couldn't play the Daddy role and protect his pet players that he built up into super heroes.

Why do I take the time to respond to your post? I do because the head coach has never stepped up to tell the fans that he was wrong to shut down player only meetings. Did the coach not see that the team was floundering and the highest paid players were slacking during the games and not really into the games at all? The team was getting blown out in the first quarter of almost every game in the last half the season when the starters started the first and 3rd quarters. The 2nd unit players would cut down the lead and after a long nap during halftime the starters came right back giving up easy layups in the 3rd. SVG has never addressed the chemistry issues and acknowledged his part in screwing up the team chemistry. If he doesn't do at least that much, how will the returning players ever trust him? And who wants to play with a "rat" or player who spills the beans as to what went on in the players only meeting. Remember Reggie coming out the next game at half speed determined to not shoot the ball ever again like a small child? Well he is politicking to be the team leader again this year. And of course AD showed everybody as well that he didn't give a crap if the team won or lost too. I have never witnessed such an occurrence with AD-RJ and SVG wondering why the Palace was near empty. Who can trust those three men this season ? If SVG had just not commented or AD had kept his mouth shut perhaps those players who did care about the outcome of the games would have a better attitude this season. As for last year, SVG lost those players because of his actions and to them it meant the coach was not really serious about winning, SVG was serious about promoting a story line of RJ and AD doing the pick and roll with the 4 out and 1 in tango. On with the show. Just show up and act like you are playing and let the two super heroes do their thing. Last season was insane relating to Piston basketball. Notice Reggie's comments after the last game. He didn't talk about a plan for him to get better on the defensive end or keep the floor balanced and spread the ball around. No Reggie was talking about how he blew by a veteran quick point guard.

SVG has all of his eggs in one basket again. All opponents will be gearing up to stop the head of the snake RJ and his buddy AD. Prevent them from getting all the glory and they will once again create bad team chemistry. SVG teases the fans making comments about some of our young promising players but I will be very surprised if we don't see both RJ and Ash Smith dribbling up the court and keeping the ball until there is only 5 seconds left on the shot clock. SVG never seemed to get tired of that last year. Tim Hardaway loves that style. For the rest of the players, either mutiny or put a fake smile on and just show up because it is doubtful the coaching staff will do much to encourage ball sharing. And being the coaching staff never addressed the slacking issues of the big stars on defense last year, why should their teammates think anything will be different this time around?

I say all of this still hoping that one or two of the young guys with Avery Bradley will step up and be counted and challenge the offensive and defensive strategy if things do down the same as last year. They will need to take over the leadership early on and force both AD and RJ to submit and play the right way. They can both do it if they are forced to do it. The coach can't force them to make the necessary changes in their style and attitude. Until this happens it will make no difference what anyone says about any of the other players on the roster. If won't matter that guys like Bullock, Ellenson, Johnson, Bradley, Kennard, etc might be able to have break out years if they seldom touch the ball. Reggie has a long history of selective vision when it comes to passing the basketball. He likes to pass the ball to AD because AD is loved by the owner and the owner likes to watch AD dunk. The owner doesn't care about defense. He wants to see RJ and AD do their thing. High school basketball players know better. Will they come to Piston games even if the tickets are free?

[Oracle]

The Los Angeles Lakers signed Kentavious Caldwell-Pope to a one-year, $18 million contract last offseason. Perhaps the latest Lakers rumors entail the Lakers may turn KCP into a long-term investment.

The Los Angeles Lakers signed Kentavious Caldwell-Pope to be a one-year rental at shooting guard, that is obvious. Los Angeles vastly overpaid for Caldwell-Pope, as he makes more than Warriors shooting guard Klay Thompson. Los Angeles needed depth in their backcourt, without any long-term commitments.

However, the possibility of turning Caldwell-Pope into a long-term investment certainly is there. If he proves his worth, the Lakers could bring KCP back in on a smaller, longer contract. While KCP would not be getting as much money annually, it would be something long-term that would guarantee he keeps getting paid.


Or, the Lakers can go another route in making KCP a long-term investment. Since Caldwell-Pope is a massive contract that is expiring, he is the perfect trade piece for a rebuilding team. Much like the Lakers did with Brook Lopez, a team looking to free salary could acquire Caldwell-Pope and send away their highly paid superstar.

[Murph]

Now that Marcus Morris is gone, a number of other Pistons are stepping up.  Harris looks great as always, regardless of what forward position he plays, or whether or not he starts.  But Ellenson, Leuer, Tolliver, Moreland and even Stanley Johnson and Reggie Bullock are stepping up and making the most of Morris' minutes.

The above mentioned forwards evidently want to play, as opposed to holding team meetings to bitch about their teammates.

[BallinD]

Ballin, Nice observations.
Regarding Bullock. He has earned a fair shot at more PT. I'd like to see him in the regular rotation for at least 1/2 year to see if he's as good as I think he can be. So far he's been more consistent than than SJ. This playing once every 5 games even when you perform well is not justified.

Merc: You know, I like me some Bullock, cause he plays the right way, screening, cutting, ball movement, and hitting shots, all while playing good D. So I agree with you 100%. Time will tell if SVG will put his money where his mouth is and just play the guy. He was quoted as saying; paraphrase: "When he's on the floor, we usually play better." I think an argument could be made he should be able to compete with Stanimal, but we know SVG has got to justify his lotto pick, or this will be the year the word "bust" will be more than a whisper. So far Stanimal appears serviceable at the least.

[merc]

Ballin, Nice observations.
Regarding Bullock. He has earned a fair shot at more PT. I'd like to see him in the regular rotation for at least 1/2 year to see if he's as good as I think he can be. So far he's been more consistent than than SJ. This playing once every 5 games even when you perform well is not justified.

[BallinD]

Well, we will give Weggie a chance to get his legs underneath him, but it looks like:

1. Weggie took more shots than any player (surprise surprise) 15 shots to get 14 points, with 6 dimes and a -6 overall

2. He made sure Kennard got only 4 shots?  Was that Weggie, or Kennard just being passive?

3. Ellensen didn't shoot well at all 5-12 for 11 points, but he had the highest plus minus on the team @+25

4. Bullock showed what he can do and has done for us in spurts, 5-10 and 3-5 from 3pt range.  He makes us a dangerous team when he can get on the floor.

5. Tolliver is still on fire, 4-5 and 3-4 from 3pt range.

6. Ish led us with 9 assists and shot 6-11 with 9 assists.

7. Stanley continues to play decently, 4-8 for 11 [points and he was a + 11

Overall, a good come from behind win.

[cool breeze]

The Piston's head coach did not have the same set of standards for all players on the roster last season. He had special standards for players who were paid the most money. Usually your highest paid athletes are the hardest workers and the most "engaged" on the court during the games. While SVG pointed out shortcomings for Stanley Johnson which were warranted he should have done it privately especially for a young guy like Johnson who was 19 years old for most of the season. Meanwhile, I heard very little said publicly about Jon Leuer's play. SVG even made him a starter sending the Pistons best player, Harris, to the bench saying Harris would be more effective in a reserve role. Zeke mentioned his surprise with that decision SVG made. Meanwhile as the team chemistry deteriorated steadily during the last half of the season, SVG seemed to target Johnson, Hilliard, and Bullock as the problem SVG's team was floundering. AD did not earn the playing time he got. He proved that he could not be effective in crunch time. SVG had to bench him but made very little noise when he did it. To have a $20M a year player sitting the bench in crunch time because he makes too many mistakes on defense and cannot shoot free throws should be a big focus for the head coach. Sticking with Reggie Jackson when Reggie played so incredibly badly should have been something SVG talked about a lot to the press as well. But instead it was Stanley Johnson's attitude that was SVG's biggest concern. Hilliard was failing as well. Beno was not good enough to get any minutes either. He was a waste of money for sure. But RJ and AD were immune to any ridicule. Separate set of rules and a separate set of standards depending on the subjective thinking of the head coach will bury you in most situations. The team did not play with passion once SVG put a stop to the players only meetings which he ridiculed to the press. Imagine how those players felt after he did that. How can this coach get the trust of not only the fans this season but the current roster players who are returning for another go around with RJ and AD being the teacher's pets??

It is amazing that SVG can still draw that big pay check based on his coaching skill set that he showed last season. SVG clearly lost his team in the last half of the season. He never changed his offense even though the pick and roll emphasis between the point guards and the center was a complete failure. He never called out his high dollar contract players when they were clearly slacking on defense either. That slacking cost the Pistons at least 12 ball games. Now it is Moreland who SVG likes to ridicule to the press. He is such a coward. Only a coach who has no guts would attack a fringe player while giving a pass to players making incredible money. It will be up to the fans to call out the players and the coach this season.

[Oracle]

Wow, Reggie Bullock came in, in the 4th and changed the complexion of the game!

If he's healthy, Kennard may not see much time, Bullock moves, passes, shoots midrange and deep, then he plays great defense.

Just as I had Boban traded, he plays of very good game.

Ellenson didn't look good, but he managed to score 9 points after being stuck on 3 with a whole lot of misses!

Tolliver was on fire again and Galloway looked good.

Reggie scored a bit, but he doesn't look the same to me yet, but neither does the team. On the plus side I saw at least 5 assists, I'll check the box score later.

This 4th quarter was the first time I saw really good passing and chemistry, and I attribute a lot of it to Bullock with an assist from Ish.

[Oracle]

We totally agree about Ellenson, IMO, he may be our Porziņģis. That's not to diss Stanley, it's more of my faith that Ellenson could be a bigger breakout player for us if given the chance.

However, while you cleared that up, you ignnored what I said about why the timing is so important, but I'll assume you agree if you don't correct me.

[BallinD]

We agree on the result we're looking for, we disagree on the timing which Ballin doesn't recognize what I'm saying(correct me if I got that wrong Ballin).

I think I get the timing.  This is what I wrote in the original post: I'm gonna lean toward Ellensen if he keeps up his stellar play, it makes us a much more dangerous team and Ellensen is due for a breakout.  I think his breakout may be better than Stanimal's breakout, judging from the looks of things right now.   I think SVG is definitely leaning toward being biased toward SJ, but is now acknowledging that Ellensen is playing at a higher level right now.

Based on preseason alone, I wouldn't move Ellenson in front of Leuer for several reasons. If what we all believe to be true, it's going to happen anyway because the incentive is HIGHER to have Ellenson do well than it is for Leuer, which doesn't seem to register to posters.

There's talk about keeping Bradly(which is also premature), but if things go well, Ellenson taking Leuer's place immediately gives us the opportunity to reduce our CAP profile since Ellenson is on a cheap rookie deal, and Leuer would be trade bait.

BTW, speaking of CAP space, since the emergence of Moreland on a cheaper than cheap deal, to cut even more off the CAP, Boban could be moved as well. Now it's getting more possible to keep pieces together than before.

But a smart GM would play Leuer and hope for the best while keeping an eye on Ellenson. If Leuer looks good he's easier to move, if we trash him for Ellenson right out of the gate... good luck moving him.

I'm sure SVG and team aren't totally asleep!

When weighed and measured as a starter 2 years ago wasn't Tollie found to be lacking.  
With Harris at the 4 spot we rebounded like crap when the opposition paid just a little attention to Dre.
As a starter Jon Lueur (sp) helped with his size but he was anything BUT a tenacious defender.  Once his shot faded from sight ..............

What good does it do to use a lottery pick to obtain a BIG, TALENTED kid then allow him to corrode away behind lesser vets.

Lemon, I guess the non-thinking goes that we need some "win-now" vets.  Win what, I want to know?  The closer we get to a decision to re-up or not, on SVG's contract, the more desperate he will become.

So that means to double down and ride those middling vets into the ground, just like last year, but this year he will expect a different result (Insanity).

[Oracle]

We agree on the result we're looking for, we disagree on the timing which Ballin doesn't recognize what I'm saying(correct me if I got that wrong Ballin).

Based on preseason alone, I wouldn't move Ellenson in front of Leuer for several reasons. If what we all believe to be true, it's going to happen anyway because the incentive is HIGHER to have Ellenson do well than it is for Leuer, which doesn't seem to register to posters.

There's talk about keeping Bradly(which is also premature), but if things go well, Ellenson taking Leuer's place immediately gives us the opportunity to reduce our CAP profile since Ellenson is on a cheap rookie deal, and Leuer would be trade bait.

BTW, speaking of CAP space, since the emergence of Moreland on a cheaper than cheap deal, to cut even more off the CAP, Boban could be moved as well. Now it's getting more possible to keep pieces together than before.

But a smart GM would play Leuer and hope for the best while keeping an eye on Ellenson. If Leuer looks good he's easier to move, if we trash him for Ellenson right out of the gate... good luck moving him.

I'm sure SVG and team aren't totally asleep!

When weighed and measured as a starter 2 years ago wasn't Tollie found to be lacking.  
With Harris at the 4 spot we rebounded like crap when the opposition paid just a little attention to Dre.
As a starter Jon Lueur (sp) helped with his size but he was anything BUT a tenacious defender.  Once his shot faded from sight ..............

What good does it do to use a lottery pick to obtain a BIG, TALENTED kid then allow him to corrode away behind lesser vets.

Lemon, I guess the non-thinking goes that we need some "win-now" vets.  Win what, I want to know?  The closer we get to a decision to re-up or not, on SVG's contract, the more desperate he will become.

So that means to double down and ride those middling vets into the ground, just like last year, but this year he will expect a different result (Insanity).

[Sparma]

Don, it may be that Avery and Reggie can't comfortably co-exist in the long run. Their interviews that I reported on already suggest there may already be tension. I'd like to think that SVG took that possibility into consideration when trading for Bradley, however hurried that was. They, at least, need to have thought hard about taking on a potential max guy (again, my memory's that SVG briefly addressed that in public after the trade). Quite speculatively, I'd venture that they've discussed getting rid of Reggie in order to facilitate another max signing, and specifically Bradley if he warrants that. Can't they sign their own guy in any case (if they're willing to get into tax territory)? But it's a question of how much havoc that would wreak on the rest of the salary structure. If they could deal Reggie for a guy on a shorter deal, they could minimize the duration of the pain. At this point, I can't see WTF being right about Reggie being traded before the season starts, but a trade during the season once he's up and running wouldn't surprise me at all (but I won't specify 50/50 odds again!).

The current odds of Bradley leaving are anyone's guess.  I'm more confident of the factors moving the odds up or down during the season.  Part of the reason I think the odds right now are decent traces to Bradley sounding so committed to the team in his interview, granted that he didn't address staying, as well as the fact that the SVG would look bad if Bradley didn't seriously consider us (could there have been some feelers with the agent at the time of the trade?), and would look horrible if Bradley was inclined to stay but we simply couldn't afford him.  My recollection that SVG's already looked ahead a bit in public comments.

The 50/50 present odds is a guess, for sure.  I'm not sure what number might go with "far less", Lemon, if any number would, but let's say 10/90 or 20/80.  

It's still possible that we could reach consensus moving forward as a "Bayesian washing out of the priors" occurs.  As we get a clearer sense about some of the variables/ incoming evidence I mentioned, we can adjust probabilities, maybe coming much closer during the season.   It will be interesting to see if we're still far apart on the odds of Bradley as FA after the season.  

Agreement on probabilities doesn't always mean much anyway.   Not many foresaw what happened with KCP.

Thanks for your responses, Cool and Oracle.  That's a great compliment ("professional"), Oracle, of which I'm still hearing the after echoes.  Much appreciated.

Don, I think there's a good chance Avery stays.  If he gets the max, he'd get more here than elsewhere.   Maybe the odds are 50/50 right now?  

The odds shift according to how the season unfolds.  If he becomes the face of the franchise along with Drummond and maybe an emerging youngster (Kennard?), if he's accepted in the leadership role he clearly aspires to, if the team is reasonably successful (winning season & playoffs), then I think it's likely he'd stay.  On the other hand, if the team has a losing season and misses the playoffs, if he becomes embroiled in a locker room battle for leadership with Dregie, if he's got an attractive offer elsewhere, it's likely he bolts, even if that means leaving millions on the table.

It will be interesting to watch how much this uncertain future status affects his leadership aspirations.

I think the odds are far less than 50/50.  Doesn't Dre, Harris, and RJax eat up something north of half of our cap.  If Stan falls in love with Bradley, someone's gotta go.  And you know where my vote lies.

I believe that if RJ is not traded and comes back for another season after this season, there is no way Bradley will sign with the Pistons. Jackson is not a player that solid NBA stock players want to play basketball with. There were no players on the Thunder team that cried when he left. They were happy. Reggie won't play defense. He is capable of playing strong defense but has never done it in college or the pros. Reggie wants the ball. He wants to shoot the ball. How can he change his trademark of being a selfish player now that he is in his late 20s?

The Pistons have two players every fans should worry about as long as they wear the Piston uniform. RJ is a ball dominating point guard. That is the only way he knows how to play. He is also a lazy ass defender. AD is the other player I worry about. AD is not a fundamentally sound player. His defensive recognition skill set is very low. He has never been interested in playing strong defense. There is a reason why he never learned the defensive rotation system even last season after he had signed that huge contract. AD instead worked on his baseline hook shot. He came back last season with the same weak defensive skill set that included a lazy ass attitude in running the court and establishing defensive positioning in the paint. He didn't get out on shooters like Anthony Davis because he was lazy. He switched in the pick and roll when he shouldn't have switched because he was lazy. He didn't box out because he has never boxed out. And the coach picks on Moreland as not always being alert. I should add that I have three worries. AD, RJ and SVG. All three individuals have one trait. They will not do the right thing for the Piston team. They will do what they want to do and screw the team if necessary. So for good guys on the team, please call for a lot of players only meetings this season and see if SVG can stop them.

[cool breeze]

The current odds of Bradley leaving are anyone's guess.  I'm more confident of the factors moving the odds up or down during the season.  Part of the reason I think the odds right now are decent traces to Bradley sounding so committed to the team in his interview, granted that he didn't address staying, as well as the fact that the SVG would look bad if Bradley didn't seriously consider us (could there have been some feelers with the agent at the time of the trade?), and would look horrible if Bradley was inclined to stay but we simply couldn't afford him.  My recollection that SVG's already looked ahead a bit in public comments.

The 50/50 present odds is a guess, for sure.  I'm not sure what number might go with "far less", Lemon, if any number would, but let's say 10/90 or 20/80.  

It's still possible that we could reach consensus moving forward as a "Bayesian washing out of the priors" occurs.  As we get a clearer sense about some of the variables/ incoming evidence I mentioned, we can adjust probabilities, maybe coming much closer during the season.   It will be interesting to see if we're still far apart on the odds of Bradley as FA after the season.  

Agreement on probabilities doesn't always mean much anyway.   Not many foresaw what happened with KCP.

Thanks for your responses, Cool and Oracle.  That's a great compliment ("professional"), Oracle, of which I'm still hearing the after echoes.  Much appreciated.

Don, I think there's a good chance Avery stays.  If he gets the max, he'd get more here than elsewhere.   Maybe the odds are 50/50 right now?  

The odds shift according to how the season unfolds.  If he becomes the face of the franchise along with Drummond and maybe an emerging youngster (Kennard?), if he's accepted in the leadership role he clearly aspires to, if the team is reasonably successful (winning season & playoffs), then I think it's likely he'd stay.  On the other hand, if the team has a losing season and misses the playoffs, if he becomes embroiled in a locker room battle for leadership with Dregie, if he's got an attractive offer elsewhere, it's likely he bolts, even if that means leaving millions on the table.

It will be interesting to watch how much this uncertain future status affects his leadership aspirations.

I think the odds are far less than 50/50.  Doesn't Dre, Harris, and RJax eat up something north of half of our cap.  If Stan falls in love with Bradley, someone's gotta go.  And you know where my vote lies.

I believe that if RJ is not traded and comes back for another season after this season, there is no way Bradley will sign with the Pistons. Jackson is not a player that solid NBA stock players want to play basketball with. There were no players on the Thunder team that cried when he left. They were happy. Reggie won't play defense. He is capable of playing strong defense but has never done it in college or the pros. Reggie wants the ball. He wants to shoot the ball. How can he change his trademark of being a selfish player now that he is in his late 20s?

The Pistons have two players every fans should worry about as long as they wear the Piston uniform. RJ is a ball dominating point guard. That is the only way he knows how to play. He is also a lazy ass defender. AD is the other player I worry about. AD is not a fundamentally sound player. His defensive recognition skill set is very low. He has never been interested in playing strong defense. There is a reason why he never learned the defensive rotation system even last season after he had signed that huge contract. AD instead worked on his baseline hook shot. He came back last season with the same weak defensive skill set that included a lazy ass attitude in running the court and establishing defensive positioning in the paint. He didn't get out on shooters like Anthony Davis because he was lazy. He switched in the pick and roll when he shouldn't have switched because he was lazy. He didn't box out because he has never boxed out. And the coach picks on Moreland as not always being alert. I should add that I have three worries. AD, RJ and SVG. All three individuals have one trait. They will not do the right thing for the Piston team. They will do what they want to do and screw the team if necessary. So for good guys on the team, please call for a lot of players only meetings this season and see if SVG can stop them.

[cool breeze]

When weighed and measured as a starter 2 years ago wasn't Tollie found to be lacking.  
With Harris at the 4 spot we rebounded like crap when the opposition paid just a little attention to Dre.
As a starter Jon Lueur (sp) helped with his size but he was anything BUT a tenacious defender.  Once his shot faded from sight ..............

What good does it do to use a lottery pick to obtain a BIG, TALENTED kid then allow him to corrode away behind lesser vets.

Lemon, I guess the non-thinking goes that we need some "win-now" vets.  Win what, I want to know?  The closer we get to a decision to re-up or not, on SVG's contract, the more desperate he will become.

So that means to double down and ride those middling vets into the ground, just like last year, but this year he will expect a different result (Insanity).

Some of the planted articles by SVG are so orchestrated by SVG himself that all of us who suffered watching his free agents stinking up the Palace last season should give him the middle finger. As you pointed out all of the players SVG mentions with the exception of Ellenson failed in the past. But Leuer makes $10 million a season. SVG has to look at him differently. Maybe Leuer is a great practice player who should be on the team to tune up players like Ellenson. But as you said it exactly what is SVG trying to win? Is it a win if his free agents WIN rotation spots in a corrupt system. If Ellenson doesn't make the rotation, his agent should ask for the Pistons to trade him. That would at least might raise the eye of the owner who might be attending Laker practices. SVG says in one breath that Ellenson has been perhaps the most consistent player in training camp. So will his reward be a few press clippings to show his parents when he marches off to the D-League? Will Ellenson start getting an attitude like Stanley Johnson did after SVG put a cap on any additional players only meetings last season. I still can't get over that decision SVG made. What an ego he must have. My men AD and RJ are the leaders. How dare you say anything to them about sharing the basketball and playing with some guts on defense. Then the lackluster pussy comments at the end of the season when AD failed to box out Whiteside or even jump for the defensive rebound to end the Pistons playoff chances, SVG makes the comments on AD just not be engaged enough. He didn't say what the hell is wrong with this man who makes over $20 million dollars a year. Why didn't he jump or box out his man at the most critical moment of the season where Miami did bring the right stuff. Our Pistons brought the wrong stuff in that deciding moment I will never forget. They with their franchise player leading the way came up short because of lack of effort.

So SVG has big decisions to make as to who makes the rotation. He has long forgotten what happened last season with Leuer, RJ and AD. That really didn't happen. The fans are mistaken. Leuer is a practice player who cannot play power forward in the big time and he can't play center in the big time. Tolliver is a good guy to have around in the locker room and to come off the bench when needed. Ellenson is what? I say if Ellenson doesn't make the rotation now he will want to be traded. I would not want to play for this coach who will do anything to try to show that he didn't make any mistakes with his free agent signings. If someone gets injured then play Tolliver before Leuer. If Tolliver goes down then give Leuer another chance. He should have lost his status based on last season's performances where he got more opportunities than I can ever remember relating to a player who failed on both offense and defense. But SVG likes the thought of Leuer shooting the 3 ball. Does he pay any attention at all. I noticed in the Summer league games that he seldom watched what was going on during the games. He was on his cell phone or talking to his Father a lot. I am sure his assistant coaches filled him in but when Danny Ainge goes to any game he watches and doesn't talk on his cell phone much if at all.

I am sorry for writing so many negative posts but I just do not trust that SVG will do the right thing again this season. Saying that is about any coach at any level is about the worst thing you can say and I have to say it. SVG ignored what he wanted to ignore and hoped that nobody would call him out for it. This is what he will be remembered for after he is fired at the end of his contract. He didn't do the right thing to make the Pistons future bright. He played his 2nd rate free agents regardless of the facts. The result was that the team imploded because he helped create the bad team chemistry. Oh and I can't wait for Reggie to dribble around with the basketball in the next pre season game. Everyone should heckle him when he plays defense at the start of the regular season. They should boo AD when he fails to box out as well. That might get the attention of this coach.

[Sparma]

The current odds of Bradley leaving are anyone's guess. I'm more confident of the factors moving the odds up or down during the season. Part of the reason I think the odds right now are decent traces to Bradley sounding so committed to the team in his interview, granted that he didn't address staying, as well as the fact that the SVG would look bad if Bradley didn't seriously consider us (could there have been some feelers with the agent at the time of the trade?), and would look horrible if Bradley was inclined to stay but we simply couldn't afford him. My recollection that SVG's already looked ahead a bit in public comments.

The 50/50 present odds is a guess, for sure. I'm not sure what number might go with "far less", Lemon, if any number would, but let's say 10/90 or 20/80.

It's still possible that we could reach consensus moving forward as a "Bayesian washing out of the priors" occurs. As we get a clearer sense about some of the variables/ incoming evidence I mentioned, we can adjust probabilities, maybe coming much closer during the season. It will be interesting to see if we're still far apart on the odds of Bradley as FA after the season.

Agreement on probabilities doesn't always mean much anyway. Not many foresaw what happened with KCP.

Thanks for your responses, Cool and Oracle.  That's a great compliment ("professional"), Oracle, of which I'm still hearing the after echoes.  Much appreciated.

Don, I think there's a good chance Avery stays.  If he gets the max, he'd get more here than elsewhere.   Maybe the odds are 50/50 right now?  

The odds shift according to how the season unfolds.  If he becomes the face of the franchise along with Drummond and maybe an emerging youngster (Kennard?), if he's accepted in the leadership role he clearly aspires to, if the team is reasonably successful (winning season & playoffs), then I think it's likely he'd stay.  On the other hand, if the team has a losing season and misses the playoffs, if he becomes embroiled in a locker room battle for leadership with Dregie, if he's got an attractive offer elsewhere, it's likely he bolts, even if that means leaving millions on the table.

It will be interesting to watch how much this uncertain future status affects his leadership aspirations.

I think the odds are far less than 50/50.  Doesn't Dre, Harris, and RJax eat up something north of half of our cap.  If Stan falls in love with Bradley, someone's gotta go.  And you know where my vote lies.

[BallinD]

When weighed and measured as a starter 2 years ago wasn't Tollie found to be lacking.  
With Harris at the 4 spot we rebounded like crap when the opposition paid just a little attention to Dre.
As a starter Jon Lueur (sp) helped with his size but he was anything BUT a tenacious defender.  Once his shot faded from sight ..............

What good does it do to use a lottery pick to obtain a BIG, TALENTED kid then allow him to corrode away behind lesser vets.

Lemon, I guess the non-thinking goes that we need some "win-now" vets.  Win what, I want to know?  The closer we get to a decision to re-up or not, on SVG's contract, the more desperate he will become.

So that means to double down and ride those middling vets into the ground, just like last year, but this year he will expect a different result (Insanity).

[lemonpen]

My only interest is assessing any difference in player or ball movement.

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