Don, I agree...

[Oracle]

Keep politics out of sports otherwise the entire thing will be ruined.

Which is why it's the NFL that is the cause of this problem!

The National Anthem has nothing to do with football, and if you have to pay someone to observe it, it's even more stupid.

Since the NFL injected politics into sports, the responsibility is theirs, the protests are valid and make sense.

The NFL could have stopped the protests immediately by saying they would throw their weight behind truth, justice and the American way. But money always gets in the way.

Besides, I'm sure you aren't asking them to be POLITICALLY correct are you?

[cool breeze]

Report: Kaepernick files grievance against NFL owners for collusion

And he freaking should and I hope he wins his case against them.  It not like he's being kept off the field because he can't play or committed murder, or rape and punch a woman.  He took a stance in a nonviolent protest in taking a knee during the anthem.   This crap has to stop teams and network owners can't keep getting away with this type of behavior because they're afraid to address social issues.  They should pay him not to play.  

Recently seen a interview Craig Hodges did with ESPN not sure when but interesting nonetheless.  He spoke about out on social injustice and his NBA career was all but over because he handed a letter to the president (the 1st Bush) press secretary after the Bull's 2nd NBA title WH visit.   He lost he case against the NBA and sadly the great MJ star power couldn't save him.   But no team would touch after he became a free agent.

Again ESPN should be a shame but that's another story in itself.  Remember when ESPN force fed us on this  "Michael Sam, the first openly gay player drafted by the NFL"  They weren't afraid of the NFL and sponsors back then because  it was an easy fight to have because they knew the NFL and it's sponsor had to tread carefully so they we're gun-ho in cramming this down Straight America throats but here that have concerns about player standing up for racial injustice.  ESPN grow some balls seriously.

During a Monday Night Football telecast on September 5, 1983, Cosell said of Washington Redskins wide receiver Alvin Garrett, "That little monkey gets loose, doesn't he?" The Rev. Joseph Lowery, then-president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, denounced Cosell's comment as racist and demanded a public apology, but Cosell refused, citing his past support for black athletes and stating that "little monkey" was an affectionate term he had used in the past

for diminutive white athletes (including Mike Adamle, for whom Cosell was on record using the term 11 years prior), as well as for his own grandson.

Cosell left the Monday Night Football booth following the 1983 season, citing his waning interest in professional football.

At the time I thought this was overkill and I don't believe it to be a racist comment though the term monkey was used as racial degrading depending on the circumstance it help bring in the political correctness BS we're seeing today.   What bothers me is that truth is truth rather we like it or not  for ESPN to take a financial stance and not a stance on truth just makes me sick.  The backlash was too much for Cosell to survive
 

Apr 26, 2014 · Los Angeles Clippers owner Donald Sterling told his girlfriend that he doesn't want her to bring black people to his games or post pictures with black ...

I wonder how ESPN would have responded to this had Mainstream Media wasn't all over this story hard.  I mean same **** right when you get down to it it's still about racial equality, and racism.  

Olympians Tommie Smith and John Carlos raising black gloved fists at the 1968 Olympic Games became one of the most iconic images of the 20th century and  4 years two US Olympic runners decided to do it again. So why are we still finding the need to protest the same **** 50 years later?  So maybe oppose to knelling next week black players across all sports should throw up a fist during anthem.

As a mixed race individual who had great parents, I am not buying any of this nonsense. Keep politics out of sports otherwise the entire thing will be ruined. Playing sports or being in combat always removes the concept of racism or at least it has for me. Everyone blends in to form something special. This political protest is destroying the NFL. NFL players have been targeted by political groups especially Black Lives Matter who is funded by the revolutionary George Soros who has destroyed many countries around the globe. There are a lot of military vets who support the NFL. Those deployed in combat areas get NFL feeds provided at their base camps. For most people who have studied any American history at all know that standing before any athletic contest is a tribute to over one million soldiers, sailors and airmen who have died wearing the uniform. The National anthem can mean many things to people but to piss off former vets or current vets who defend the country is plain stupid. Protest whatever you want to in another setting. How many NFL football players have deserted their wives and children for someone else? Broken families, drugs, horrible parents with zero character, minority kids who decide to drop out of school. Girls who are encouraged by their own brothers to get themselves pregnant as teen agers to continue the downward cycle of minority groups of all colors are the details that those NFL protestors and kneelers do not care about. They want people to think their are really brave. Vets who have been combat laugh at them. And those vest are from all races. Advertisers are getting the message. Fans who bring their kids to the games have stopped coming. They want to see a game and they hate it when players kneel. They don't want their kids to see them kneel. So if the players want to appeal to Black Lives Matter and the pressure that group places on those players, then keep kneeling. But 90% of all vets will stop watching the NFL. Everyone doesn't believe that they are heroes at all. Just stupid idiots who add to the division of our country. This is just what Marxist revolutionaries have as their goal. Divide and conquer and try hard to find reasons why we are all different depending on our race instead of having much in common. Standing and respecting the flag symbolizes something most of us believe we have in common with one another. That is my personal view. None of this makes any sense so when that is the situation then you know there are people pulling the puppet strings on those NFL players. Watch the old Rocky Bowwinkle cartoon shows. Maybe Boris Badinoff is behind this protest or his girl friend, Natasha.

[WTF]

Report: Kaepernick files grievance against NFL owners for collusion

And he freaking should and I hope he wins his case against them.  It not like he's being kept off the field because he can't play or committed murder, or rape and punch a woman.  He took a stance in a nonviolent protest in taking a knee during the anthem.   This crap has to stop teams and network owners can't keep getting away with this type of behavior because they're afraid to address social issues.  They should pay him not to play.  

Recently seen a interview Craig Hodges did with ESPN not sure when but interesting nonetheless.  He spoke about out on social injustice and his NBA career was all but over because he handed a letter to the president (the 1st Bush) press secretary after the Bull's 2nd NBA title WH visit.   He lost he case against the NBA and sadly the great MJ star power couldn't save him.   But no team would touch after he became a free agent.

Again ESPN should be a shame but that's another story in itself.  Remember when ESPN force fed us on this  "Michael Sam, the first openly gay player drafted by the NFL"  They weren't afraid of the NFL and sponsors back then because  it was an easy fight to have because they knew the NFL and it's sponsor had to tread carefully so they we're gun-ho in cramming this down Straight America throats but here that have concerns about player standing up for racial injustice.  ESPN grow some balls seriously.

During a Monday Night Football telecast on September 5, 1983, Cosell said of Washington Redskins wide receiver Alvin Garrett, "That little monkey gets loose, doesn't he?" The Rev. Joseph Lowery, then-president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, denounced Cosell's comment as racist and demanded a public apology, but Cosell refused, citing his past support for black athletes and stating that "little monkey" was an affectionate term he had used in the past

for diminutive white athletes (including Mike Adamle, for whom Cosell was on record using the term 11 years prior), as well as for his own grandson.

Cosell left the Monday Night Football booth following the 1983 season, citing his waning interest in professional football.

At the time I thought this was overkill and I don't believe it to be a racist comment though the term monkey was used as racial degrading depending on the circumstance it help bring in the political correctness BS we're seeing today.   What bothers me is that truth is truth rather we like it or not  for ESPN to take a financial stance and not a stance on truth just makes me sick.  The backlash was too much for Cosell to survive
 

Apr 26, 2014 · Los Angeles Clippers owner Donald Sterling told his girlfriend that he doesn't want her to bring black people to his games or post pictures with black ...

I wonder how ESPN would have responded to this had Mainstream Media wasn't all over this story hard.  I mean same **** right when you get down to it it's still about racial equality, and racism.  

Olympians Tommie Smith and John Carlos raising black gloved fists at the 1968 Olympic Games became one of the most iconic images of the 20th century and  4 years two US Olympic runners decided to do it again. So why are we still finding the need to protest the same **** 50 years later?  So maybe oppose to knelling next week black players across all sports should throw up a fist during anthem.

[Sparma]

Good point about the (potential) low seed, Oracle. I'm pretty sure their first round opponent will/ would be heavily favored; the Pistons makeup is such where, if things fall their way for a week, they should at least prove to be a tough out. If shots fall, if Dre plays tough defensively in the limelight, they should be able to hold their own, unlike many teams in that spot. Maybe that's being terribly optimistic, particularly since I see them getting to 43 wins in good measure because I think there's an unusual high number of really weak teams this year. Trying to look on the bright side heading into the season.

On a positive note: I can see them winning a series in the playoffs, if their shots (particularly AD's) are falling at critical times.

If they make the playoffs at seeds 7th or 8th, it's highly unlikely that they beat the 1st or 2nd seed.

Even at 6th, while they would have a better chance, it's still unlikely. I think we'll make the playoffs, but I'm really unsure if we can win a series.

Drummond: Better FT shooting could really elevate his game. His reluctance to drive offensively was always based on the fact that if he got fouled, it was basically a wasted effort. If he can hit his FT's, he then becomes a GREAT option at the end of games, because the only likely way to stop an athletic guy that big is to foul him. It also would mean less Reggie type heroics and less of his post up hook shots.

Lions: Stick a fork in them...

[Oracle]

On a positive note: I can see them winning a series in the playoffs, if their shots (particularly AD's) are falling at critical times.

If they make the playoffs at seeds 7th or 8th, it's highly unlikely that they beat the 1st or 2nd seed.

Even at 6th, while they would have a better chance, it's still unlikely. I think we'll make the playoffs, but I'm really unsure if we can win a series.

Drummond: Better FT shooting could really elevate his game. His reluctance to drive offensively was always based on the fact that if he got fouled, it was basically a wasted effort. If he can hit his FT's, he then becomes a GREAT option at the end of games, because the only likely way to stop an athletic guy that big is to foul him. It also would mean less Reggie type heroics and less of his post up hook shots.

Lions: Stick a fork in them...

[Sparma]

Thanks for your response, Don. I hadn't known that you could get a single team subscription either, as one of three levels of NBA Pass. We don't have TV, in good measure because I just got tired of paying close to 100 per month for DirecTV, after starting at 19.99. Now they keep sending an ad with a $200 incentive, but I found that most of it was not only a waste of time, but not very interesting either. I do use Amazon Prime video quite a bit. I got the Milwaukee feed with the first broadcast I watched, including Jon McLaughlin, whom I can still remember from the Bucks' best days. I'll need to work on getting the Pistons feed, although I agree with you that hearing the outsider perspective can be instructive.

Having not watched for a couple of years, it was bracing to see what I'd just committed so much time and money to. It's early, but I just can't picture a high ceiling for them. And being pretty good (as in my 43-39 prediction) may be the worst thing for their future, if it means not getting the necessary talent infusion, but does mean SVG gets a 3 year extension past next year.

On a positive note: I can see them winning a series in the playoffs, if their shots (particularly AD's) are falling at critical times.

Another positive note (along with a negative one): they really should have the best Center unit in the league, or close. AD and Boban are dominant. Leuer's a nice fit for small ball. Moreland sounds like an excellent end of the roster player. What's the negative note then? In order to make that happen, SVG would need to substitute smartly, playing situational ball, letting what's best for the team prevail over his worry about bruising egos (AD's, and indirectly Reggie's as a fall out). Hard to see that happening, sadly.

I was so disappointed watching the 3rd quarter, with the team totally overmatched when going up against the real Bucks, but still, it was good to be back.  Watching does make a ton of difference, no doubt!

It pays to be able to actually see the action.

[/quote

Sparma just signed up for League Pass for the discounted price when you pick the option of watching only one team. Wouldn't have known if you hasn't mentioned that you can get League Pass with the one team option. I will miss being able to listen to opposing announcers who in the past have been more objective when mentioning defects in the Piston team.

Missed the last pre season game but enjoyed reading comments from you and Oracle. If healthy Milwaukee is my pick to be the surprise team in the NBA this season. Unless the Pistons pull off a big trade, they should be cannon fodder again but hopefully we will get to watch some of our young talent develop.

[cool breeze]

Notice the Andre Drummond article about possible improvement relating to AD's free throw shooting. Of course if he shoots under pressure and makes more free throws AD will be able to play in crunch time. That is what most $20 plus Million should be able to do. But shooting better at the foul line is not what the team needs most from AD. He needs to be a strong defender who can get big defensive rebounds and block shots. Also, AD needs to gain a reputation as a player opposing centers will no longer be able to pick on when their team needs a big basket. AD has been easy to fool in the past. That is his reputation around the league. That is why he didn't make the Olympic team. Has AD proved anything but shoot better at the foul line in pre season and of course lose some weight? Both are great indicators that AD is a more serious player for at least this short period of time. But bad habits are very difficult to break. You don't suddenly become an above average defender in the NBA over night. What will his attitude be in December, January, February and March? Is it possible for AD to actually prepare for games before he plays them? He has never done that. AD has just shown up for games with no real thought in mind as to who he will be guarding or what the Piston's game plan might be. If AD can pull off a complete change in his mindset and learn how to play the right way, I will really be impressed with him.

Boban is another matter. What could have possessed SVG to go after him in the first place? Why not just concentrate on signing Baynes instead of offering so much money? For that matter what if SVG had really done his homework and ignored his impulses to sign either Leuer or Boban and try to spend the money he paid for both of them for one big upgrade big man who can defend? He got two inept fringe players for an extremely high price. There is no way he can trade them. They will be on the Piston team for at least another season after this season. The worst part of this is that because SVG plays the duel role he must prop them up and make sure they are in any rotation he puts on paper. He can nit pick all the other younger fringe players but not those two free agent picks.

I am getting tired of the hype on Reggie Bullock. There has been no indication that I have seen that proves Bullock can be a consistent solid player or that he can stay healthy. One huge red flag I have is the fact that he will be suspended for the first 5 games because of drug violations. Just stop for a second and say to yourself, if you had been lucky enough to get a NBA team to believe in you enough to give you a guaranteed contract, would you not feel that you had been blessed by God and never fall pray to the seduction of illegal drugs especially knowing that you would be tested? Who in their right mind would do that? I know a lot of highly talented players have done that but how can any fan respect that or believe that somehow Reggie Bullock will be the Piston's secret weapon this season? I would rather believe in the other younger players who haven't decided to take the wrong door into hell. We are all human but those who plant some of the articles are not being honest. I hope like hell that Bullock pulls himself out of whatever drove him into violating the drug policy and he becomes a better man because of his negative experience. But do I count on him becoming the Pistons's secret weapon? If I were his coach, I would be worried that I couldn't trust him when the pressure was on. Reggie has a sweet shot for sure but Kennard and others seem to be on a upward path and just need some experience.

This should be the year the Pistons use to re build. Detroit should play all of their young players a lot and pull off a huge super stud player in next year's draft. Trade players that are not part of the future at any opportunity and watch SVG closely if you are the owner and fire him if he doesn't do what is in the best interest of the Piston's long term future. making the 8th spot in the playoffs should not be the team's goal. Development of Johnson, Kennard, Ellenson and any other young player they can pick up should be the goal along with signing Bradley at the end of the season or before. Bradley is one of those players this team needs moving forward to set the tone as to how to play basketball the right way. Detroit has been floundering for many years now because we have not had one player like him. Avery might not be a super star but he always shows up for every game prepared and will play the right way and all out. Other younger players need to be around that and learn from him. I just wish the press and the coach would be a little bit more honest.

[cool breeze]

[quote="Sparma"]I was so disappointed watching the 3rd quarter, with the team totally overmatched when going up against the real Bucks, but still, it was good to be back.  Watching does make a ton of difference, no doubt!

It pays to be able to actually see the action.

[/quote

Sparma just signed up for League Pass for the discounted price when you pick the option of watching only one team. Wouldn't have known if you hasn't mentioned that you can get League Pass with the one team option. I will miss being able to listen to opposing announcers who in the past have been more objective when mentioning defects in the Piston team.

Missed the last pre season game but enjoyed reading comments from you and Oracle. If healthy Milwaukee is my pick to be the surprise team in the NBA this season. Unless the Pistons pull off a big trade, they should be cannon fodder again but hopefully we will get to watch some of our young talent develop.

[Murph]

I agree Harris isn't nearly the defender Josh was, he's not even on the same planet defensively.  I think from an offensive stand point Harris is on par still but I think a lot of it has to do with him deferring to others.  I think his offense game gets underrated and as far as defense goes our whole team is full of average defenders.

I agree that through the first 10 years of their careers that Smith will prove to be a better defensive and offensive player than Harris.  I think we all forget how dynamic and athletic Smith was early in his career.  Then due to poor coaching in Detroit, Smith had a remarkably fast and drastic decline, capped off by SVG cutting him half way though the 14-15 season, and eating the remainder of his massive contract, that is still handicapping the Pistons today.

From this I have 3 points.  1st, eventually Harris will prove to have a better career than Smith, once the whole body of their careers are considered.

2nd, playing for the Pistons is career killer.  Smith signed with Detroit as an almost All-Star.  The Pistons played him out of position, then hired a coach who hated Smith, and then cut Smith and kicked him to the curb.  18 months later, Smith was out of the NBA at the age of 30.  I just recently watched Smith play a preseason game against the Knicks for Maccabi Haifa.  Sad.  

And 3rd, by cutting Smith, SVG has crippled the Pistons salary structure for years.


SVG almost single handedly ruined Smith's career (much like Dwight Howard), and in so doing crippled the Pistons for years (much like Orlando).  I see a trend.

[deusXango]

LET THE GAMES BEGIN......GO PISTONS!!!!!!

[Sparma]

I was so disappointed watching the 3rd quarter, with the team totally overmatched when going up against the real Bucks, but still, it was good to be back. Watching does make a ton of difference, no doubt!

It pays to be able to actually see the action.

[Oracle]

It pays to be able to actually see the action.

[Oracle]

Trust me, there is a reason the score was that close.The Bucks were kicking our butts, then...

With 7 minutes left in the game, SVG brings back Drummond, Reggie, Harris, Ellenson & Kennard, ALL of whom were sucking hard, to play against a comedy of scrubs led by Joel Anthony. All 5 of them had 11 points to their name. I would name the others, but nobody knows who they are!

This was clearly a play to help the Piston players pad their stats and make the loss look better, and they still couldn't get it done after tying the score at 103-103 with about 2 minutes left... Obviously they didn't score again.

They waste a monster game from Bradley, who did damn near all of his damage inside the arc.

Really a poor performance from Harris, Reggie, Ellenson & Kennard.

[Sparma]

After two seasons away, I've taken the step of signing up for single team NBA Pass.  Started watching a bit before halftime.

Detroit got destroyed for most of the part that I watched, then staged a furious comeback that fell short, with 3 Piston starters (AD, RJ, Harris) going up against 4 Bucks battling for the final roster spot (so that their stronger defensive play at the end may not have meant much).  

In the third quarter, Detroit looked terrible.  Milwaukee's hit outside shots AND sliced to the basket.  The defensive positioning was awful.  Lots of inexplicable turnovers on O by Detroit. Bad combo!

How could we have included Middleton as a throw in??

A few specific things.

Reggie showed good speed/ quickness in getting to the basket.  Immediately after one penetration, he was totally ceded inside position to Middleton for an easy basket.  In the fourth, two points down, dribble, dribble, dribble by RJ, followed by a TO off his foot.  Ugh.  He did follow up with penetration and a good pass to Ellenson, who looked like a solid NBA player at the end.

Bright spots?  Bradley hit a bunch of jumpers, making up the best part of an unorganized O for most of the 2nd half.

AD finished with strong numbers.  He had a heck of rebound with his back to the basket, beating out two defenders for an offensive bound.  He did get blocked 2.5 times by my count on a single play, which is hard to accomplish for someone his size.  I think he's headed to his best season (but not superstardom), barring injury.

The one real mismatch in our favor that I saw was posed by Boban.  On one play superathletic John Henson needed to take him down with a T, unable to hold him off (the Milwaukee announcers saw it differently than me).  For cryin' out loud, Stan, with such spotty team, you've got to, got to, exploit your mismatch.

[Oracle]

I have a feeling that this game tonight won't tell us much, but I do hope Ellenson & Kennard get a lot of burn, and that would make me happy.

I also felt like a fool getting league pass last year, but I'm convinced that even SVG can't keep us out of contention for the playoffs this year. I don't think Reggie or Drummond will suck enough to make that happen because Harris & Bradley should offset some of it. I also think the bench will be better this year.

So I'm going to want to watch our competitors a lot and that's why I got league pass. The additional benefit is that I can get games over the internet when I can't get home.

[cool breeze]

@DX - The revolution, er., game will not be televised to the public, but I'll see it on league pass.

Reggie: He has a video out with the title "I can't wait"(see it here Reggie: I can't wait). He's saying he can't wait to show fans that he's back... I can't wait either

Game: No Stanley, a minor back issue, maybe no Bradley, depending on swelling in his rolled ankle. Leuer will start at PF, Harris at SF. Prediction: We lose!

Reading: More like Truth lately - One Team, One Stat -- Detroit Pistons struggle with Reggie Jackson, Andre Drummond on court

Wow maybe others are listening to us or have been thinking the same thing relating to " Detroit Pistons struggle with Reggie Jackson, Andre Drummond on court". And the truth comes out that AD is one of the worst rim protectors in the league. That information is the direct opposite of an earlier article saying Drummond was a good defender.

Oracle I hope you share your experience watching the Pistons vs Bucks tonight. Maybe they will be resting their players as well but I expect a blow out by the Bucks when the Pistons meet in the regular season. I haven't purchased League Pass yet. Do you regret it so far? I sure felt like a fool for doing it last season.

[Oracle]

@DX - The revolution, er., game will not be televised to the public, but I'll see it on league pass.

Reggie: He has a video out with the title "I can't wait"(see it here Reggie: I can't wait). He's saying he can't wait to show fans that he's back... I can't wait either

Game: No Stanley, a minor back issue, maybe no Bradley, depending on swelling in his rolled ankle. Leuer will start at PF, Harris at SF. Prediction: We lose!

Reading: More like Truth lately - One Team, One Stat -- Detroit Pistons struggle with Reggie Jackson, Andre Drummond on court

[deusXango]

1. There is no way in hell that Pistons management could put together a trade that would include Jon Leuer unless they agree to pay at least 3/4th of his salary for the next two seasons. While SVG released Josh Smith, he will ignore Leuer's shortcomings and insist he is good enough to start or bit a big factor off the bench. But Leuer has never been a strong player. How SVG and his GM buddy bungled this free agent signing is incredible. But for sure SVG will insist on building him up in an attempt to trade him. That is a foolish plan at best and hurts the team chemistry and SVG will always be known in Piston land as a coach and leader who did the wrong thing and knew he was doing it. When you don't know, it's ignorance; when you do know, but do it anyway, it's stupid!
2. Reggie Jackson's trade stock is nearly as bad as Jon Leuer. Jackson has always been a player many GMs were Leary of adding to their roster because he is such a selfish player and a chemistry killer. Plus he has no motivation to become an elite defender which he could be with a change in attitude depending on his health as well. The Jackson problem is much like the Leuer situation. Management guessed wrong after thinking they had a real gem with his performances in half a season that got the Pistons into the playoffs. If SVG could get a high 2nd round pick for Jackson now, would he do it and kick his heels when thinking that he had dumped a lot of salary. But I can't believe any NBA team would make that deal knowing how badly Jackson played last season. If only SVG had admitted early on last season that Jackson could not play at a reasonable NBA level for even a back up point guard and benched him saying his injury has not healed, then possibly Jackson's value might be higher now. Once again SVG did the wrong thing and didn't trust his own eyes. will Piston fans who attend games this season boo the coach before the start of each game if he makes Leuer and Jackson his pet players again? The biggest "boo" is dwindling attendance and if Leuer and Jackson remain SVG's pets, expect a crescendo. I don't expect All-Star caliber play out of both of them.

I was surprised to read the article on AD from SB Nation:Detroit Bad Boys. That article was spot on regarding AD's issues and the difficult road ahead that he has to change the vast weaknesses in his overall game.

Is the game televised tonight or what?

[cool breeze]

1. There is no way in hell that Pistons management could put together a trade that would include Jon Leuer unless they agree to pay at least 3/4th of his salary for the next two seasons. While SVG released Josh Smith, he will ignore Leuer's shortcomings and insist he is good enough to start or bit a big factor off the bench. But Leuer has never been a strong player. How SVG and his GM buddy bungled this free agent signing is incredible. But for sure SVG will insist on building him up in an attempt to trade him. That is a foolish plan at best and hurts the team chemistry and SVG will always be known in Piston land as a coach and leader who did the wrong thing and knew he was doing it.
2. Reggie Jackson's trade stock is nearly as bad as Jon Leuer. Jackson has always been a player many GMs were Leary of adding to their roster because he is such a selfish player and a chemistry killer. Plus he has no motivation to become an elite defender which he could be with a change in attitude depending on his health as well. The Jackson problem is much like the Leuer situation. Management guessed wrong after thinking they had a real gem with his performances in half a season that got the Pistons into the playoffs. If SVG could get a high 2nd round pick for Jackson now, would he do it and kick his heels when thinking that he had dumped a lot of salary. But I can't believe any NBA team would make that deal knowing how badly Jackson played last season. If only SVG had admitted early on last season that Jackson could not play at a reasonable NBA level for even a back up point guard and benched him saying his injury has not healed, then possibly Jackson's value might be higher now. Once again SVG did the wrong thing and didn't trust his own eyes. will Piston fans who attend games this season boo the coach before the start of each game if he makes Leuer and Jackson his pet players again?

I was surprised to read the article on AD from SB Nation:Detroit Bad Boys. That article was spot on regarding AD's issues and the difficult road ahead that he has to change the vast weaknesses in his overall game.

[BallinD]

Actually dumping RJ and AD this season for picks wouldn't be dumping because I think the upside to Kennard and Ellenson is far greater than both AD and RJ we my actually improve this season if SVG commits to a youth movement this season. Wise, you've been on fire lately. Many of us feel the same way, but are disheartened by the fact SVG probably won't even give Kennard or Ellenson a decent shot at the rotation. I'm with you, the young'uns should be leading the charge. It's kinda like the risk Brad Stevens took, but since he is a much more creative and open-minded coach, it might work for Boston, where it will likely not work for SVG, and he knows he is not capable of recasting a roster outside of his 1 in 4 out scheme.  He is the proverbial one-trick pony and is getting along in age, so you can't teach an old dog new tricks.  He knows it so we will have to wait for the next regime for such radical change,
IMHO.

How confident am I? well if this did occur I would ventured to increase my win prediction by at least 5 games.   Even with the elimination of just one of them I would be tempted to do so. I'll go so far as to say, if Reggie Jackson is eliminated, I'll make a prediction considerably higher than .500 ball. Right now I'm waiting until game 9 before committing a prediction to Dr. Van Gundy's Traveling Clown Show, staring the Big 3 (AD, RJ, and JL). SVG, if he starts Weggie out the gate, then I'm gonna say 40 wins, cause SVG will have proven he has learned nothing and wants to gimp out the season and kill the chemistry, cause EVERYBODY on the team knows Ish has won the job and Weggie is not ready."   

Hell toss in canning SVG this season and I'll venture further to say that a coach like Mike Woodson would coach them beyond the first round come playoff this season. Aside from dumping SVG, you know who's been sitting in the back of my mind, as a viable coaching candidate who can get this team moving on an upward arc? Beno Udrih. I was close to dropping the mike with that one.   I think Mike Woodson is a less creative and more ISO coach than even SVG, though.  We need a young, tough, creative, innovative current assistant for a re-tool/rebuild.  I have no idea who that would be.

I'm not of the mind that RJ and AD are our best players period!  I think Harris and Brady could be equally as good number wise with all things being equal and they were equally as glorified as SVG pets. RJ gave the Pistons 3/4 of a season of decent play before we acquired Harris; what was our record before Harris's arrival? We talk about the importance of RJ leading the team (based on that singular campaign) like he was Chauncey 2.0 and he's not! AD intrigues us with his otherworldly athleticism, but he's not a player. Grit, determination, intelligence, love of the game, all these things go into making a player stand head and shoulders above the average player, not athleticism alone. I think a good, innovative, coach, with an eye for evaluating/using his talent by playing them to their strengths, would make all the difference in the world. RJ and AD are more obstacles to team success than best players; that's what they're good at. Mike is dropped...BAM!    
I'm not gonna lie.  Potentially they would be our two best players, but they are both head-cases. Dre just now deciding 4 years in to step up his game.  So far I have seen no-defense from him in the preseason, which is the team mantra and yet he shows us nothing, no leg, not even an ankle, NADA.  However he has upped his FTs, so there is a little hope there.  Weggie has shown the same high-usage tendencies, to ball hog, take more shots than anybody else, ignore open players, this is what I look for.  Are these two gonna change their fundamental tendencies/flaws.  So far, no/maybe.

For the record, going into the season, I'm doubtful that trusting SVG and relying on Reggie Jackson and Jon Leuer as prominent pieces will yield a decent season. Too many special considerations for an average player are being made, and over-estimating the talents of a mediocre player (simply because he's been in the league doesn't automatically elevate his game) leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. These are coaching decisions that'll send the season down in flames.That's MHO.

What I see is if he gifts Weggie the starting role, without evidence he's earned it, (Unless he shows out tonite, and by that I mean runs a damn offense and defends) maybe 40 wins as SVG screams and claws out his hair and rides off into the sunset, a lame-duck coach with no extension, no hope of contending, no development of the younguns...NADA!?!?.

[WTF]

I agree Harris isn't nearly the defender Josh was, he's not even on the same planet defensively.  I think from an offensive stand point Harris is on par still but I think a lot of it has to do with him deferring to others.  I think his offense game gets underrated and as far as defense goes our whole team is full of average defenders.

[deusXango]

Actually dumping RJ and AD this season for picks wouldn't be dumping because I think the upside to Kennard and Ellenson is far greater than both AD and RJ we my actually improve this season if SVG commits to a youth movement this season. Wise, you've been on fire lately. Many of us feel the same way, but are disheartened by the fact SVG probably won't even give Kennard or Ellenson a decent shot at the rotation. I'm with you, the young'uns should be leading the charge.   

How confident am I? well if this did occur I would ventured to increase my win prediction by at least 5 games.   Even with the elimination of just one of them I would be tempted to do so. I'll go so far as to say, if Reggie Jackson is eliminated, I'll make a prediction considerably higher than .500 ball. Right now I'm waiting until game 9 before committing a prediction to Dr. Van Gundy's Traveling Clown Show, staring the Big 3 (AD, RJ, and JL).  

Hell toss in canning SVG this season and I'll venture further to say that a coach like Mike Woodson would coach them beyond the first round come playoff this season. Aside from dumping SVG, you know who's been sitting in the back of my mind, as a viable coaching candidate who can get this team moving on an upward arc? Beno Udrih. I was close to dropping the mike with that one.   

I'm not of the mind that RJ and AD are our best players period!  I think Harris and Brady could be equally as good number wise with all things being equal and they were equally as glorified as SVG pets. RJ gave the Pistons 3/4 of a season of decent play before we acquired Harris; what was our record before Harris's arrival? We talk about the importance of RJ leading the team (based on that singular campaign) like he was Chauncey 2.0 and he's not! AD intrigues us with his otherworldly athleticism, but he's not a player. Grit, determination, intelligence, love of the game, all these things go into making a player stand head and shoulders above the average player, not athleticism alone. I think a good, innovative, coach, with an eye for evaluating/using his talent by playing them to their strengths, would make all the difference in the world. RJ and AD are more obstacles to team success than best players; that's what they're good at. Mike is dropped...BAM!

For the record, going into the season, I'm doubtful that trusting SVG and relying on Reggie Jackson and Jon Leuer as prominent pieces will yield a decent season. Too many special considerations for an average player are being made, and over-estimating the talents of a mediocre player (simply because he's been in the league doesn't automatically elevate his game) leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. These are coaching decisions that'll send the season down in flames. That's MHO.

[Oracle]

Here's my comments on some of what you said,

This how I see some of our players

Here is how I see Harris, I see him as a smarter Josh Smith as much as many of you hated Josh, Harris just like Smith was when we had him was our best all-around player.  Harris could be a consistent 20 pts a game player - Josh was a really good to great defender, Harris is a below average defender, and downright horrible defender when playing the SF position, which is one of the reasons he plays PF, he can't come close to staying with average SF's.

Bradley seems to be but I can't say with all certainty a player that has a grasps on his game and likely won't hurt a teams chemistry with his play, he could be another Joe D.  Bradley will likely accept and fill the role he's given. Bradley may be capable of put up 20 from time to time but he easily could be good for 15-17 points. - His average should go up since he won't have to defer to Isiah Thomas anymore(maybe 18-20 ppg), but we haven't seen any evidence yet. Also, for some reason, nobody here wants to address the elephants in the room about Bradley, reports on him go totally unnoticed and never commented on.

Ellenson has an offensive game not only from outside but in the paint.  Remember how we scream for Moose to have a Mid-range game well Ellenson has one in addition to being able to go deep.  He could be a Dirk with better handles so why are we stuck on how well he plays defensive when RJ and AD plays none at all. OMG!!!! The kid studies film of Dirk who and the hell RJ and AD study? - Totally agree, if we had drafted Booker, SVG would sit him for lack of defense! Ellenson needs minutes to develop!

Kennard well I've been sold on this kid from the moment I saw him on film.  I have heard nothing but great comparison on this kid with other NBA Greats,  Chris Mullins, and Ginobli, just to name a couple.   There is no way in hell should he be called a project when all indication are he's not SVG would be doing this kid a disservice not playing on average 20 minutes a night.  - He's for real, but like Ellenson, he needs minutes, the Booker analogy applies again, and maybe even more so.

Stanley IMO is a Wild Card I don't see him as a star or a premier player what he could be is what Hunter was for us.  Could he deliver 10-12 pts a game and play some solid  defense? perhaps. - Stanley can do that while we wait for him to develop further.

Moreland could be a serviceable center and perhaps he has a better chance of being the next Big Ben than AD.  Keeping Boban behind him is good enough we don't need AD.    

Ish is simply our Chuckey Atkins until we can get a PG via the draft, trade or free agency. - Here is where SVG drops the ball. If he made up his mind that Reggie should go, picking up Trey Burke, who NY got for a song, would have been amazing for us. Bring in Trey as the backup to Ish and see if he could take the job. Very little to lose while we wait to see where we go next for a starting guard. Wow, it's been a long time since somebody pulled Chucky Atkins out of their ass... brings back memories  

[WTF]

Actually dumping RJ and AD this season for picks wouldn't be dumping because I think the upside to Kennard and Ellenson is far greater than both AD and RJ we my actually improve this season if SVG commits to a youth movement this season.   

How confident am I? well if this did occur I would ventured to increase my win prediction by at least 5 games.   Even with the elimination of just one of them I would be tempted to do so.  

Hell toss in canning SVG this season and I'll venture further to say that a coach like Mike Woodson would coach them beyond the first round come playoff this season.   

I'm not of the mind that RJ and AD are our best players period!  I think Harris and Brady could be equally as good number wise with all things being equal and they were equally as glorified as SVG pets.  

This how I see some of our players

Here is how I see Harris, I see him as a smarter Josh Smith as much as many of you hated Josh, Harris just like Smith was when we had him was our best all-around player.  Harris could be a consistent 20 pts a game player 

Bradley seems to be but I can't say with all certainty a player that has a grasps on his game and likely won't hurt a teams chemistry with his play, he could be another Joe D.  Bradley will likely accept and fill the role he's given. Bradley may be capable of put up 20 from time to time but he easily could be good for 15-17 points.

Ellenson has an offensive game not only from outside but in the paint.  Remember how we scream for Moose to have a Mid-range game well Ellenson has one in addition to being able to go deep.  He could be a Dirk with better handles so why are we stuck on how well he plays defensive when RJ and AD plays none at all. OMG!!!! The kid studies film of Dirk who and the hell RJ and AD study?

Kennard well I've been sold on this kid from the moment I saw him on film.  I have heard nothing but great comparison on this kid with other NBA Greats,  Chris Mullins, and Ginobli, just to name a couple.   There is no way in hell should he be called a project when all indication are he's not SVG would be doing this kid a disservice not playing on average 20 minutes a night.  

Stanley IMO is a Wild Card I don't see him as a star or a premier player what he could be is what Hunter was for us.  Could he deliver 10-12 pts a game and play some solid  defense? perhaps.

Moreland could be a serviceable center and perhaps he has a better chance of being the next Big Ben than AD.  Keeping Boban behind him is good enough we don't need AD.    

Ish is simply our Chuckey Atkins until we can get a PG via the draft, trade or free agency. 

See the rebuild isn't really a rebuild it more like a re-direction of the resource we already have and getting a smarter coach to direct them.  Hell I bet if Cheeks was given another chance he could take the above players beyond the 1st round of the playoffs.  But we're going to be stuck with watching SVG sorry ass struggle to keep them above .500 and scratch out a 8th seed 1st round exit.

[deusXango]

That's tanking and it been something I've been screaming for a while now since last season to be exact.   I'm even more for it this season though I'm sure some might disagree but I think we're a better team without Reggie and Andre and could be even better next season with a much brighter future in the immediate future if both Andre and Reggie can be converted into a early 1st round pick and a late pick in the first.  


I think we can do with Brady, Ellenson, Kennard, Harris, and SJ what we did with Chauncey, Rip, Big Ben, and Tay.

Preach brother, preach! You take Reggie, Leuer, and Andre out of the playing equation and our rebuild is well underway. What can we get for $50 million in payroll? If we can't get sh!t, then why are we giving he who signed them a free pass?!

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