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Well

Post  BallinD on Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:27 pm

We almost F$%ked that game into the ground, but I'll take the win. Our end of game strategies were a wing and a prayer, but somehow we dodged the bullet. Go Pistons. Kuester 1 down, 11 to go.

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Aaron Baynes WHO????

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:07 pm

Boban drops 15 pts and 19 boards on the Hornets... WOW!

Pistons just had to make it interesting! We had them down by 19 in the 4th, only to see it cut to 4 with 26 seconds left, and finally winning it by 1!

Amazingly, they tried to lose this one in every way possible... Damn!!!
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If it walks like a duck.....y'all know how it goes.

Post  deusXango on Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:43 pm

Oracle wrote:
http://pistonpowered.com/2017/01/05/fix-detroit-pistons/ wrote:The Pistons have a nice thing going between Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond. The Pistons’ can build around those two. The Pistons had a nice thing going with Ish Smith (who ain't all that) and Andre Drummond; Drummond was playing defense and rattling off 20/20's like Westbrook is harvesting triple-doubles. Would it be far-fetched to think Goran Dragic?

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Tobias Harris have been very selfless and consistent contributors. Whether you increase their roles or not they are good fit with the team. Jon Leuer and Ish Smith are solid contributors that also have a defined role with the team and would be good fits in secondary roles. Smith and Leuer were signed to be secondary players, and they can excel there; why doesn't more of the offense flow through KCP and Harris like it did when Smith was starting?

Every player not listed above, I would look into moving if the return was a future asset or a player who could help the Pistons win now, assuming Van Gundy still thinks he can win with the team.
If the next 10 games are hopelessly bad, than perhaps that list grows to everyone short of Drummond. How about trading for a starting PG (not a combo-shoot first guard we call a PG) and bringing in a new coach?

I’ll close by saying this. I think there is a cancer on the team that is really holding it back. Remember how improved the Pistons were when they waived Josh Smith a few years ago? One cancerous player in the locker room can make all the difference. Are we really baffled with who the cancer is?

It’s hard to pin down who that cancer is, but by removing that one player, perhaps the Pistons would find their 50+ win form from a season ago. Are we REALLY baffled with who the CANCER is !!??
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Dirty Dozen

Post  BallinD on Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:40 pm

The next 12 games will tell the tale on this season. Can we play out of this funk, or do we need a trade?  

Will MM turn it around?  If there is a locker room cancer, hopefully we can package it out of here.  Who could it possibly be?

Last in the Central, fell from 2nd in defense to 11th since Rjax return. Last in the entire association at getting to the FT line. Leuer couldn't save us.  The lineup shakeups haven't worked -- oh wait, we haven't really tried any.  

Is another lottery pick on the table?

Should we package Dre to get Jimmy Butler, who may be on the chopping block? That would at least give us one All Star, but we might as well then trade Rjax too cause there is only one ball???

12 games will take us to February.  
Charlotte, Portland, Sacramento (W), GS, Utah LAL (W), Atlanta, Washington, Sacramento (W), Miami (W), Boston.  4 out of 12 won't cut it.  We need to reverse that and reverse the fortunes or the year is pretty much done.
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How do you fix the Detroit Pistons?

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:26 pm

http://pistonpowered.com/2017/01/05/fix-detroit-pistons/ wrote:The Pistons have a nice thing going between Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond. The Pistons’ can build around those two.

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Tobias Harris have been very selfless and consistent contributors. Whether you increase their roles or not they are good fit with the team. Jon Leuer and Ish Smith are solid contributors that also have a defined role with the team and would be good fits in secondary roles.

Every player not listed above, I would look into moving if the return was a future asset or a player who could help the Pistons win now, assuming Van Gundy still thinks he can win with the team.
If the next 10 games are hopelessly bad, than perhaps that list grows to everyone short of Drummond.

I’ll close by saying this. I think there is a cancer on the team that is really holding it back. Remember how improved the Pistons were when they waived Josh Smith a few years ago? One cancerous player in the locker room can make all the difference.

It’s hard to pin down who that cancer is, but by removing that one player, perhaps the Pistons would find their 50+ win form from a season ago.
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"THERE'S TWO TYPES OF PLAYERS" QUOTE BY SEAN MILLER

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:40 pm

I found an article and the above mentioned quote recently by the Arizona basketball coach Sean Miller. This season he has three really good freshman players who have all the right stuff when thinking about people who want to do things the right way. Regardless of how their careers might turn out, all three players are the type of individuals all coaches want to be around. They buy in to the team thing over the individual thing. They listen and really want to undo bad habits that cause mistakes which cost their team. All three really listen to their coaches and don't fake it. This is what Sean Miller said about his experience as a player and a coach.

'THERE'S TWO TYPES OF PLAYERS: THE GUY WHO DOESN'T WANT TO HEAR IT AND WILL ACT LIKE HE'S LISTENING, AND THEN THERE'S THAT PLAYER WHO REALLY, REALLY WANTS TO KNOW WHAT HE'S DONE WRONG. ALL OF OUR GUYS FALL INTO THAT SECOND CATEGORY. THEY'RE WILLING LEARNERS. THEY'RE GOOD TEAMMATES. THEY REALLY CARE ABOUT WINNING AND THAT HELPS THEM BE COACHABLE".

How is that for a winning formula. Oracle brought up a great point in his recent post. Oracle mentioned the fact that Reggie Jackson sat on the bench for weeks watching his team play in NBA regular season games. He saw what worked and what didn't work on both offense and defense. When he recovered from his injury Reggie returned to start in his first game back. What in hell did he learn from all those nights watching from the bench? He was still getting paid to at least pay attention. But Reggie didn't pay attention. Does he really care about winning or being on a team that plays the right way? When the head coach watches both of his point guards turn the basketball over on offense making bonehead mental mistakes while appearing to have no plan in mind at all on offense and then to continually get beat mentally on defense, doesn't anything register in the coaches brain that he needs to change something within the ranks of the point guard position?

While our Piston players seem to fit the first category mentioned by Sean Miller who are the type of players who don't want to hear it and act like they are listening, Lauri Markkanen is quietly off studying game film after practice. That is what Sean Miller said about this player and his other two freshman. Lauri studied game film in depth after every instance of foul trouble he experienced early on while adjusting to the college rules. He had been playing in Europe against much older men who played a more physical style that officials allow there. Since all the mental work he put in on game film, Markkanen seldom gets himself in foul trouble while playing aggressive defense. The other freshman all have the same thing in common. They learn from their mistakes. And Markkanen is currently listed as the Pistons first round pick in NBADRAFTNET. Markkanen is a sure thing in the NBA to be a rotation player in his first season. The guy can shoot the basketball extremely well. However, that will not be a sure thing if Van Gundy is his coach. Van Gundy seems happy to tolerate his chosen crew of the type of players that do not learn from their mistakes and do not want to even hear about their mistakes especially from their coach. Stan Van Gundy cannot be having any fun at all coaching those players can he? You have to feel like you are having fun when you play or coach basketball to be effective.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:49 pm

Phil1980boy wrote:This is the move I would like to see Stan do and it will not be popular. Start Stanley Johnson.

I know the kid confidence is shot to hell and this move could back-fire and Stanley could lose all of the little confidence he has left. Or Stanley could step up his game and bring defense back to Detroit to add along with what KCP does.


Let's be honest. Where in the hell is Detroit season going anyways? NBA Finals lol Eastern Finals lol Second round of the playoffs lol

Playoffs Sad

I know everybody has high hopes and all this season but I said that if there is A season to take A step back to see what's really needed for the franchise moving forward, this is the year for that to happen. And it's happening.

I am with you Phil. Stanley Johnson changes things in a big way and I do not believe that the addition of Johnson in the starting lineup will cause the Pistons to lose any more games than they surely will if simply rotate the likes of Smith, Jackson, Drummond, Morris, Harris, Lauer, and Baynes. Those 7 players have not been able to avoid opposing teams scoring 30 plus points in the first quarter. Johnson offers a fresh approach on offense with his unselfish and heady play along with more energy and smarts on the defensive side. Johnson might not score a lot of points this season but you can bet that he will figure things out and have more influence within the team that will make him a much better offensive player next season.

What could put the Pistons higher up in the lottery where they could snag a top 3 pick would be to get Ellenson into the rotation NOW. I can't see where he is any worse on defense than any of the starters. If he plays he will much must better than any of the current starters with the exception of KCP. And Ellenson has a great shooting stroke from distance. To stay on the current course will cause Piston fans to lose interest in the team and stay home. If they can come and see some of the young talent develop before their eyes, Piston fans will do it. Piston fans are not stupid. Regardless of the spin Stan Van Gundy gives the press, Detroit sports fans know what their eyes tell them. The current players are trying hard but they cannot compete at the same level relating to energy or skill as the bulk of the opposing players they compete against. That is the truth that Van Gundy knows but wants to cover up because he believes fans will blame him. The truth is that Van Gundy has done pretty good based on what he was left with by Joe Dumars who was the man that destroyed the current future of the Detroit Pistons. Joe did some great things and then Hammond left and Dumars was lost and made mistake after mistake.

It would be so exciting if the coach would make the big switch to play the young guns. Somehow he must secure two new point guards and every other starter should be fair game to trade. Every effort needs to be placed on securing at least one if not two high first round draft picks.

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Not Kick A Wounded Cat

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:26 am

Not like I'm jumping off and on the bandwagon here my fellow fans. Even it the team wins and that small sample of games in which you're referencing the team still had issues and I was saying then that this team have not turned the corner as many were thinking at that time.

Even beyond the stats and numbers and the brief moments where it looks like they've turned a corner there something deeper but clearly obvious that tells another story. I said it way back when and I'm saying it now that this team collectively have not improved and I would be saying the same thing even if they were on pace with last season 44 wins.

It's not just my lone questioning of this team, its in the headline, its the talk of the forum and it's coming from the coach and players mouth. I'll say this that when team start having players only meetings its about effort, desire, and who's not putting in the work night in and night out. SVG is an easy blame because more times then not he uses the players ineffectively but he couldn't do that if our starters were consistently on top of their game.

One Monkey didn't steal the show here so it's not about one player screwing it up. If the team turned the corner like some were thinking then it should have made this big of a difference even if Reggie had to play catch up. But here is how I'll argue this point. It's not like Reggie was oblivious to what was working he was sitting on the bench every night watching so the only issue should have been him catching his second wind and following suit. The fact that this didn't happen or not happening is that Reggie is either stupid or don't give a ****. SVG is running the same crappy offense with same players that got him 44 wins and into the playoff last season. Please don't say Reggie forgot all the plays!!!!!

My take is that we're looking at the same players (starters) and that not a single one of them have stepped up their game or improved enough over the summer. We see the same mistakes and inconsistent play from last season largely because the team still has no real leaders or real identity.

We need a superstar, we have no bread and butter play, and no strong go to guy. Reggie and Andre should be those players that carry this team on their backs (like CB and Rip) or (Zeke and Joe) and everyone else should be filling in the blank spots ala Big Ben, Sheed, Worm and so on. I think we have 2 of those players in Morris and Harris we just need to other 2 to grow up, man up and freaking lead this team.
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Detroit Pistons going back to the NBA Lottery

Post  Phil1980boy on Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:14 am

This is the move I would like to see Stan do and it will not be popular. Start Stanley Johnson.

I know the kid confidence is shot to hell and this move could back-fire and Stanley could lose all of the little confidence he has left. Or Stanley could step up his game and bring defense back to Detroit to add along with what KCP does.


Let's be honest. Where in the hell is Detroit season going anyways? NBA Finals lol Eastern Finals lol Second round of the playoffs lol

Playoffs Sad

I know everybody has high hopes and all this season but I said that if there is A season to take A step back to see what's really needed for the franchise moving forward, this is the year for that to happen. And it's happening.
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Oh say can you SEE....

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:37 am

DX wrote:Defensive problems? This wasn't the case for 25% of the season...what the hell happened? Andre, who many want to trade, was finally playing inspired defensive basketball and KCP was playing with a consistency he'd never done as a Piston. Not only was the TEAM playing tenacious defense and beginning to win convincingly on the road, they were winning with balanced scoring (not a 20+ point a night scorer in the bunch) and fun to watch, at least I found them fun to watch. What the hell happened?!

DX, this is well said, Wise simply wasn't watching during this period, but as soon as they start losing, well, the critics come out of the woodwork and some use the opportunity to go hard against players they don't like or that stand in the way of the next great player on the Pistons... This team will regain their poise, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Ballin, you surprised me with this post,

Ballin wrote:We need a secondary ball handler, probably Pope, but he appears and disappears, appears and disappears.


Nothing could be further from the truth, KCP doesn't appear and disappear. Why didn't he do that during the stretch DX is talking about?


Well, the offense has been radically altered! With Reggie back everybody's touches go down. A team that ran their offense through KCP & Harris, now runs it through Reggie & Drummond with Harris coming off the bench.

What KCP can accomplish now depends on the way Reggie flows the game, and that varies from game to game. Sometimes he's in the flow, sometimes not and it gets harder to get and keep a rhythm going.

Having said that, the facts on the ground suggest that SVG isn't going to change the central issue, and he likely shouldn't. The players are simply going to have to adjust to the new Sheriff in town and make the best of it, which can still be something very good.

However, until SVG stabilizes the 2nd unit, no chemistry will get developed there and we'll lose what Ish does best.

The bottom line is that SVG is 100% correct that the issue is coaching, NOT the players, which is the easy scapegoat. Yes it was Reggie when he came back, but now it's more about how to use the players correctly, and for SVG, it's his training camp all over again.

I've had to forgive SVG!

The question is, why and what good does it do for me to forgive SVG? Well, there's a very old saying that applies...

When you forgive, you set a prisoner free, and in the process, discover that the prisoner, was you!
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SCAPEGOATING

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:26 am

Calling Bull Crap on the Reggie scapegoating as well. Putting the losing on one mans shoulder is crazy IMO because if the team was properly structured to begin with inserting Reggie wouldn't or shouldn't be that big of a deal. Reggie didn't kill chemistry the team never had any to begin with. Blame the coach but it's (losing) not all about Reggie being inserted back into the lineup its a real possibility they still be in the same boat if Reggie was never hurt. Every team in the conference got better IMO and the Pistons didn't and banked on the same 5 getting better. We should have upgraded at least 2 of starting 5 positions starting with both guard position and locking down a real backup at center.
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SUPER STAR

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:13 am

This team needs any star hell I'll take a half a moon. I'm telling you this team have me longing for the Teal Years and that dumb ass horse head. Where the hell is Hunter, Hill, Houston, Stackhouse and Mills when you need them even they had a identity and offensive scheme.

Sadly these players are slow in the brain but this is largely a coaching issue and I doubt if the GM fires himself. I'll be the first and say that my preseason prediction was very wrong. facepalm

I don't like Reggie never did even when he was spouting off about Bad Boys Tradition and Goin To Work. I was calling bullshit then and I'm still calling bullshit. Those 2 Championship teams got better season after season, they progressed each season but this now current group has regressed I simply don't see where this team is better. They might have slightly upgraded but the pieces still don't mesh.

We have too many young inexperience pieces and I never been with this idea of drafting a bunch of young knuckleheads hoping it all falls into place one day. We didn't draft a Lebron or Kobe over the last 5 or 6 crappy seasons! Knight....GONE, Monroe.....GONE, KCP need to be GONE, Andrea.....wishing he was GONE.

Seriously this guys sucked at the college level Knight was the closes to being a champion but these guys have no pedigree none, noda, zilch!!!!!

We have bunch of role players we are not going to win this way and before any comparison is made to the make up of 2004 that team had 3 national championship players on it, 80% of the squad likely been to the Final Four at least twice. Do anyone really believe that Andrea will live up to that contract, that Reggie will morph into a champion caliper type PG.

I like Morris and I like Harris it's not much else I like about this team
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:37 pm

BallinD wrote:Chemistry, intensity, playing all for one, is it lost? Can it be found?  The Pistons have fallen and can't get back up, or can they?  Only the elephant knows, and he's blowing his horn loud and clear, but few can decipher what he is saying.

Why did Stan find the need to vociferously rip the player's meeting, did it explicitly (more likely implicitly) question the reinsertion of a not-ready RJaX into the starting lineup and all that it brought with it?  Did they argue against going back to P&R as the bread and butter?? Did they express confusion about their NEW?? roles in the RJax machine??

deusXango wrote:

Ahh, the locker room. The elephant in the room is the dreaded locker room. Who better than the players themselves to see something amiss? Who better than true professionals, to address something they'd worked hard on building, not wanting to see it collapse? There was a chemistry forming, and an identity taking shape among some players where were castoffs, untested, and immature; a competitive TEAM was emerging and it felt good on the floor and was exciting to the fans in the stands. In that locker room, behind closed doors, a "players only meeting" was called (which IMO they had every right to call) but, somehow SVG had an ear in there (IMO a violation of respect to be given a TEAM by its President/coach) and he ripped that meeting from stem to stern! To my knowledge, one player came out of that meeting pouting and it showed in his play; he even crossed swords with the coach briefly about plays being called. That player was Reggie Jackson. All sorts of changes have taken place since then, and the majority of them negative. "Reggie's rounding into shape," but the team continues to loose more than it wins; I don't find it exciting to watch like I once did, even with the spirited 4th quarter comebacks (which falls short). KCP is not playing like he'd began to and Andre has gone back to the player some love to hate. Where's the chemistry? What's the TEAM's identity?

I love all the excuses that seem to arrive when a team gets their asses kicked consistently. Now Van Gundy is trying to keep skeptics from doubting his lineups. He is in denial. The worst thing a coach can do is not identify problems. I want a coach who is flexible. . Stan Van Gundy is playing politics. He is afraid of Marcus Morris. He is not afraid to bully Stanley Johnson or other guys who are getting fringe minutes. The coach can make you or break you. If he is not rational, this team will go through the rest of the season and be in the lottery. Maybe that is the best thing for the Pistons. But meanwhile, while losing a lot and losing fans as well, Stan Van Gundy will not be learning much of anything about his number one draft pick this season. And as far as Stanley Johnson is concerned, Stan Van Gundy is the guy who has caused more harm to Johnson's shooting percentage than any other person outside of the two inept point guards he loves.

Marcus Morris might be a rotation player but he is not a starter on a good team. for whatever reason, Morris is unable to guard much better than Smith or Jackson. But who cares says the head coach. Van Gundy is going to continue to start Morris anyway because he is basing all his marbles on "what happened in the past". No I think that Van Gundy is afraid of what Morris might do if he goes to the bench. Will he act out like he did in Phoenix? We can't have that happening. I don't think Morris would do anything different and maybe he could get out of his shooting slump if he came off the bench. But I don't like the fact that Van Gundy is basing the future of the Pistons on Marcus Morris in the first place. As Zeke said on NBA TV last week, you always cause problems when you take your leading scorer and best player out of the starting lineup. He was referring to Harris. Harris is a no problem type of individual who is a team player. Van Gundy knows that he will have no issues with Morris. He also knows that about Johnson. So Van Gundy will continue to start Morris even if Morris cannot guard most small forwards and is in a shooting slump. He did hit two 3 pointers after the game was decided last night. Is the team really getting any better Stan? How many points did Indiana score against your team in the last game?

Nothing is new in Piston land. Ish Smith and Marcus Morris have a great relationship with the head coach. Isn't that wonderful. Who cares about team chemistry. Van Gundy is going to base everything on what happened in the past.

Beno I feel for you. You should easily be the starting point guard on this horrible team.

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We're not the only ones with problems...

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:55 pm

I have a strong feeling that we've hit bottom. We didn't play much defense, but Indy certainly didn't do much better in that department.

Well, it's happening again, that old Rondo issue, this time with the Bulls(and hell no, I don't want Rondo here)


http://www.nba.com/article/2017/01/04/blogtable-how-would-you-handle-rajon-rondo-situation-chicago-bulls wrote:Shaun Powell: First order of duty is to find someone to take him, and I wouldn't ask for much in return. There's an old saying in sports: You can be a headache if you produce; if not, you're not worth the trouble. Rondo isn't producing -- his shooting is abysmal and his defense is suffering -- and so he's not worth the trouble. Bulls should stick with Michael Carter-Williams, who gives them just as much, minus the confrontations with coaches.
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The Elephant Knows

Post  BallinD on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:20 pm

Chemistry, intensity, playing all for one, is it lost? Can it be found?  The Pistons have fallen and can't get back up, or can they?  Only the elephant knows, and he's blowing his horn loud and clear, but few can decipher what he is saying.

Why did Stan find the need to vociferously rip the player's meeting, did it explicitly (more likely implicitly) question the reinsertion of a not-ready RJaX into the starting lineup and all that it brought with it?  Did they argue against going back to P&R as the bread and butter?? Did they express confusion about their NEW?? roles in the RJax machine??

deusXango wrote:

Ahh, the locker room. The elephant in the room is the dreaded locker room. Who better than the players themselves to see something amiss? Who better than true professionals, to address something they'd worked hard on building, not wanting to see it collapse? There was a chemistry forming, and an identity taking shape among some players where were castoffs, untested, and immature; a competitive TEAM was emerging and it felt good on the floor and was exciting to the fans in the stands. In that locker room, behind closed doors, a "players only meeting" was called (which IMO they had every right to call) but, somehow SVG had an ear in there (IMO a violation of respect to be given a TEAM by its President/coach) and he ripped that meeting from stem to stern! To my knowledge, one player came out of that meeting pouting and it showed in his play; he even crossed swords with the coach briefly about plays being called. That player was Reggie Jackson. All sorts of changes have taken place since then, and the majority of them negative. "Reggie's rounding into shape," but the team continues to loose more than it wins; I don't find it exciting to watch like I once did, even with the spirited 4th quarter comebacks (which falls short). KCP is not playing like he'd began to and Andre has gone back to the player some love to hate. Where's the chemistry? What's the TEAM's identity?
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"Ball don't lie!" Neither does numbers!!

Post  deusXango on Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:54 pm

BallinD wrote:This team can't stop anybody.  They can barely outscore anybody.  They lost their ability to dominate at home.  What is left?  We shall see if they will play with heart and toughness and Smarter.

Sounds like a locker room problem.  All was good before Reggie came back; we were scratching out wins and blowing teams out.  Whatever is going on, I suspect Stan knows, but is playing scared.  Hope I'm wrong about that.
I'm scratching my head and so is Stan.
Defensive problems? This wasn't the case for 25% of the season...what the hell happened? Andre, who many want to trade, was finally playing inspired defensive basketball and KCP was playing with a consistency he'd never done as a Piston. Not only was the TEAM playing tenacious defense and beginning to win convincingly on the road, they were winning with balanced scoring (not a 20+ point a night scorer in the bunch) and fun to watch, at least I found them fun to watch. What the hell happened?!

Ahh, the locker room. The elephant in the room is the dreaded locker room. Who better than the players themselves to see something amiss? Who better than true professionals, to address something they'd worked hard on building, not wanting to see it collapse? There was a chemistry forming, and an identity taking shape among some players where were castoffs, untested, and immature; a competitive TEAM was emerging and it felt good on the floor and was exciting to the fans in the stands. In that locker room, behind closed doors, a "players only meeting" was called (which IMO they had every right to call) but, somehow SVG had an ear in there (IMO a violation of respect to be given a TEAM by its President/coach) and he ripped that meeting from stem to stern! To my knowledge, one player came out of that meeting pouting and it showed in his play; he even crossed swords with the coach briefly about plays being called. That player was Reggie Jackson. All sorts of changes have taken place since then, and the majority of them negative. "Reggie's rounding into shape," but the team continues to loose more than it wins; I don't find it exciting to watch like I once did, even with the spirited 4th quarter comebacks (which falls short). KCP is not playing like he'd began to and Andre has gone back to the player some love to hate. Where's the chemistry? What's the TEAM's identity? We've got the Reggie & Andre Show featuring the P&R and nothing else. Oh yeah, we've got the budding 6th man of the year in Tobias Harris (an NBA starter) who it was intimated, responsible for complaining about not getting enough "touches." Well, League MVP, and scoring champion, Reggie Jackson is getting his touches. I think we had so much promise but, it's one hell of a hole to climb out of now.
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Training Camp Blues

Post  BallinD on Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:02 pm

This team can't stop anybody.  They can barely outscore anybody.  They lost their ability to dominate at home.  What is left?  We shall see if they will play with heart and toughness and Smarter.

Right now they look like the comeback kids, fighting hard to get back into the game with a poor and depleted Heat team and fighting hard to get back against the Pacers, a decent team.  Will that be our identity when we're not getting blown out?

RJax (fearless leader): "Honestly, it's like we don't play defense until we're down," Jackson said. "A lot of times, we wait until we're backed into a corner and we decide to apply pressure.

Who wants to fight?  I suspect Morris does, but is it his knee, or whatever?? that has him playing so poorly.  Reggie is back, but now Ish is gone, so there is that?  Stanley plays hard, but clearly his shot has regressed, though his playmaking is a breath of fresh air.  Tobias is warming up to his 6th man of the year role, but obviously that is not enough to help us outscore even the middling teams.

We need a secondary ball handler, probably Pope, but he appears and disappears, appears and disappears.  Beno?? Not gonna happen. There does not appear to be a scheme, an identity, so it looks like PnR or die.  It's not enough unless we get more shooting and more D,

RJax: Jackson said schemes aren’t the issue – the players are the issue.
“Hell, naw; y’all watching,” Jackson said when asked if the defensive struggles were schematic.

“It’s beyond schematic. People just walk into the paint. People are literally shooting warmup shots that’s like drill work. It’s a joke. It’s something that we gotta do. Coach can’t do nothing about it. It don’t matter if he has a scheme or not or not a scheme. If we were to play pick-up (basketball), I would hope so somebody would kick us out the gym.”


Sounds like a locker room problem.  All was good before Reggie came back; we were scratching out wins and blowing teams out.  Whatever is going on, I suspect Stan knows, but is playing scared.  Hope I'm wrong about that.
I'm scratching my head and so is Stan.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:05 am

Oracle wrote:Nice trip down memory lane as a way to explain you Avatar and posting name. There appears to be a solid method behind your madness Smile

I expect nothing from the Lions... nothing! I recognize that Stafford's hand is an issue, but since he's starting... oh well, you know the drill. Yeah, the Seahawks are beatable, but they wouldn't be the Lions if they didn't get beat by a beatable team on the regular.

The Pistons are another story. If they're going to save this season they're going to have to do it the hard way... win on the road out west! This upcoming road trip is going to be tough, but there are winnable games to be had, and they'll have to find a way to win them.

I also hope SVG uses the Baynes injury to get Boban up to speed. I was really pissed when we played Memphis and he wasn't used on Gasol. SVG should know that Gasol is much taller than Drummond and a bigger Boban would have at least bothered his shot.

We need to see what we have in him before Baynes leaves. While I like Baynes, he's the slowest dude I've seen in awhile and they can forget the delusion that he's starting material in this NBA.

Stanley Johnson is playing really good and doing exactly what the coach wants and the team needs. I'm glad to see him dig in and do that because I know he wants to do more, but he's playing smart not selfish.

To take the next step he will need to put more points on the board, or at a minimum, become more efficient in the points he does score. But if he continues with the defense and smart passing like he's displayed, the rest will come.

As I've said before, I look forward to the day I can see Stanley & KCP together in the starting lineup. That would set a defensive tone and hopefully get us off to good leads. You need your best defense to start games for a lot of reasons, and those two could really do that for us.

Finally, Reggie is rounding into form here lately! I can now see how he can get his and deliver enough touches to others for us to win. His pressure on defenses is very different from the way Ish pressured defenses. Reggie can and will break them down to score a lot more often, and if you sag off of him, he has solid 3 point shooting capability to make teams pay.

He's beginning to remember where his teammates like to get the ball and he's also remembering who should get it and when. The biggest thing I don't like is when they over try to reward Drummond for steals or running the floor.

Reward him, yes, but I've seen too many passes to him where he has trouble converting, or where he will likely get an offensive foul. They need to get a bit smarter about that, and it's not just the guards.

Oracle I like what you said relating to your thought that you can't wait for the day until Pope and Johnson start games together. The time has come to do that now. SVG made some comments in his post game interview relating to the current Piston history of giving up 66 points in the first half of games. The Pistons need a more active help defender at the small forward position. Johnson is not shooting the basketball well but as Sparma pointed out, Johnson is giving the team what is most needed other than shooting. This Detroit team has no super star. The team must get better defensively to stay in basketball games. The team cannot continue to give up 30 plus points in the first quarter.

But one other painful decision must be made by Stan Van Gundy now. He must replace Smith with Beno until he can secure the services of another point guard. The starting unit can't stop any team right now in the first quarter of games and then when Van Gundy brings in Smith all we see are turnovers and Smith being picked on when the Pistons are on defense. Other teams force switches until they get the match up with any opposing player having the ball with Smith guarding that guy. The only option is to remove the weak link and that is Smith. Either use Johnson as the point guard or point forward style of offense with Johnson now defending the opposing player Smith is currently defending or take your chances with Beno who is not only a better defender but does not turn the basketball over much. I blame all of the Piston current loses directly on the head coach who cannot admit that he made a mistake relating to Ish Smith or for that matter with Morris starting at small forward. Was Morris ever a starter before he came to Detroit? Morris has sure been an asset for the Pistons and has cleaned up his act big time since he arrived but this season is different. He is not defending well and doesn't move without the basketball well and his shooting touch is AWOL. Van Gundy is a firm believer in not messing up the chemistry but he must look at the facts which show that the chemistry in the starting unit and the 2nd unit is horrible.

Harris and Johnson need to play small forward. Harris needs to prove that he can guard small forwards and I think he can do it. Leuer and Ellenson need to play power forward for this team to move forward in a positive way in looking at the possibility of a stronger team next season. Point guard needs to be filled with Jackson, Beno or Johnson unless at trade can be worked out to include Smith, Morris and Baynes. And again if something incredible could happen with a trade involving Drummond, I would be for it. Unless Drummond can show improvement on the defensive end and he continues to play the same amount of minutes, the Pistons have no chance of moving up on the standings. Drummond remains a fundamentally unsound defender who fails to screen out opposing big men on the defensive boards, switches when he shouldn't switch on defense, and fails to know the strengths of the opposing center he is guarding thus allowing good shooters from 10 foot out to get wide open looks and when those players make the open shots, he still doesn't adjust and get his ass out and get his arms up.

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Thoughts

Post  KaySlay on Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:24 am

It was nice seeing Boban get some meaningful minutes. Thanks to Oracle for sharing the article about his progression. I'm glad SVG is taking his time and being patient with him. His limitations are noticeable, but he looked good out there tonight.

BallinD it does look that way. I was happy in how he initiated the offense and got others involved with easy shots. Still not sold on Reggie, but in order to get better or even get a valuable return on a trade we need him to play better. This was a good showing.

Phil I agree. A superstar would be nice. Watching the highlights of the Pistons/Pacers rivalry during the game gave me a greater appreciation of our 2004 team. No superstar but "Going to Work" was the motto and easily apparent. Without a superstar this team decides to put it in cruise control way to often. We fought hard, but again too little and too late.

Boy have we set the bar low with this team. Never thought I would be encouraged and hopeful after a home loss to the Pacers. facepalm
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:22 am

Phil1980boy wrote:I have no problem with the Detroit Pistons going back to the lottery. This group of guys needs to get better and Detroit could use more talent on the roster/more assets.

If this does happen. I don't want to see Stan Van Gundy panic and go into major rants and lose his long term focus of where this franchise needs to go. NO PANIC MODE STAN!!


Pistons needs are. Super Star at any position Especially PG


The pistons might need to go out and find some guys who know how to play some defense. This team defense is piss poor...

You are right. SVG is trying to develop 2nd tier players into players who can compete with NBA stars. You can't continue to start Marcus Morris at small forward and expect to compete for a championship. Van Gundy had another brain frat at the start of the 4th quarter. Why did he have Morris in the lineup? Morris must have a knee problem. He is not moving in the rotations well and helping teammates on defense. He shot an air ball as well. And Smith is no longer an option as the backup point guard. He played better in the first half but then turned the basketball over and switched on defense to guard George too many times. Notice that the Piston offense seldom gets a shot inside the free throw line in the half court offense when Smith is on the floor in the 2nd half of games.

The lineup that might be more effective to start the 3th quarter and 2nd quarter might be as follows:
Beno - point guard
Pope - 2 guard
Johnson - small forward
harris - power forward
Boban - center

Detroit should put together a trade to incude the following:
Baynes
Morris
Smith

It appears that I am wrong relating to Boban's ability to play in the NBA. He might not be effective against quicker smaller teams but against teams like Indiana, once he gets in game shape, Boban might be a solid backup center. Against Indiana he got his hands up which is refreshing compared to Andre Drummond. His foot work looks good as he squares up when his man has the basketball. And he seems to have a nice touch around the basket when he does get the ball in the low post.

Jackson is rounding into game shape and is a much better all around player now than he was 10 days ago. He goes in streaks especially at the start of games where he sure doesn't look like a point guard in any way. But as the game moves forward, Jackson does seems to relax more and see the court better.

With this said, it is clear that the players have proved that nobody is a solid NBA two way player. My preference is to make trades to secure a high draft pick so we can get a smarter two way potential All Star point guard. Reggie can stay and play some at point guard or start at 2 guard. SVG needs to play Stanley Johnson at small forward or move Harris to small forward and trade Morris. Teams want the Morris contract. The head coach must start finding time for Ellenson so he can contribute next season. Ellenson has quickness and might have the most ability to become successful in SVG's system as a big man who can shoot the ball exceptionally well. Leuer and Ellenson should be playing the power forward position for the Detroit Pistons. Harris can play against smaller lineups at that position but he should be playing most of his minutes at small forward.

Until SVG can make some trades or one big trade, Beno needs to replace Smith. Smith is a man who is like a cat who has nine lives. How many coaches would stick with a player who turns the basketball over as much at Smith while not being able to guard any point guard in the league??? Maybe Smith is turning the basketball over a lot because his teammates do not move without the ball especially Morris but opposing teams seem to gear their game plan to the Pistons weakest player and they have all determined that Smith is the weakest link. Put some pressure on him and coax him to drive out of control into the paint and trap him.

Trade the 3 players mentioned above and play the young players as much as possible. Secure a high draft pick or two and get lucky in the draft. That is the best hope for the Detroit Pistons. Trading Andre Drummond should not be off the table either.

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Detroit Pistons going back to the NBA Lottery

Post  Phil1980boy on Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:54 am

I have no problem with the Detroit Pistons going back to the lottery. This group of guys needs to get better and Detroit could use more talent on the roster/more assets.

If this does happen. I don't want to see Stan Van Gundy panic and go into major rants and lose his long term focus of where this franchise needs to go. NO PANIC MODE STAN!!


Pistons needs are. Super Star at any position Especially PG


The pistons might need to go out and find some guys who know how to play some defense. This team defense is piss poor...
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Looks Like Reggie is Back

Post  BallinD on Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:17 pm

Looks like the ball is moving better. Looks like Reggie is all the way back into game shape. Looks like our training camp is over. Looks like Leuer is a net plus with his "play the right way" approach. Looks like (halftime) this is gonna be a hi scoring game.

Maybe from here on out SVG can stick to coaching the team.
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SVG on Boban...

Post  Oracle on Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:22 pm

It looks like SVG has a plan, and like Ellenson, he's using the time left with Baynes to work on Boban's weaknesses. Here's his comments.

http://www.nba.com/pistons/features/pistons-dodge-bullet-baynes-ankle-injury-not-serious-feared wrote:“We’ve been very comfortable with Aron – Aron’s been our best guy in terms of plus/minus on the entire team,” he said. “But I’ve got great confidence in Boban. I’m not worried at all if he has to play. That’s not a concern of mine at all.”

Marjanovic’s greatest challenge is lateral mobility. In today’s NBA, where the pick and roll is at the heart of most team’s offensive attacks, centers have to defend from the rim to the 3-point line and often find themselves switched on to attacking, ballhandling guards.

“I think that (Pistons strength coach) Jordan (Sabourin) and our coaches understand what the challenge is,” Van Gundy said. “He’s a really talented offensive player – very, very skilled with great size. The challenge is going to be his ability to move laterally. So they’re working hard on it and you’ve got to give Boban a lot of credit. He’s working hard on it. If he can get just a little bit better in that area, his offensive skills are significant.”

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Pistons are high on Ellenson...

Post  Oracle on Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:40 pm

So high that if you didn't know better, they'd need a blood test Smile

Seriously, SVG as does the rest of the brain trust believes that Ellenson will be better than Leuer, and so do I.

But believing isn't being, so IMO, it's wise to let Ellenson develop, especially right now, unless you believe the season is basically over and there's no use in trying to make the playoffs.

I don't think we're there and I would have absolutely no respect for SVG if that's what he's thinking. Going there would be giving up on his team which would be a horrible message to send.

Ellenson isn't more important than the careers of the rest of the team, so the move to develop him slowly is likely the right one.

Having said that, I do wish SVG went to a 10 man lineup more often, with a clear 2nd unit, which would give more opportunity to the younger players, but that's just my preference, not a requirement.
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Ellenson a bust? I don't think so!

Post  deusXango on Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:24 am

Murph wrote:So what's the deal with Henry Ellenson?  He hardly ever plays at all.  He's played a total of 10 games all year.  And it's not as if the Pistons are having a great year, and can't afford to develop a rookie.

It has to be one of two explanations, or a combination.  Either Ellenson completely sucks and is another blown draft pick, or else SVG completely sucks at developing young players.

We should have taken Deyonta Davis instead.
I don't think Ellenson sucks, at least not to the point he's been ignored by SVG, and the early excuses used about his weight and lack of strength is bull also! Didn't they know this before his name was called? My question is this; what type of brain trust do we have that'll willingly waste a first round draft on a developing team? I've said it before, and still believe it, if we had drafted Kristaps Porzingis, the darling of Gotham, he'd still be sitting Detroit's bench. Stan Van Gundy needs to hire a coach!! Maybe the new coach will play Henry along with Stanley off the bench, particularly now with Morris hobbled.
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