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Ellenson

Post  Murph on Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:18 am

So what's the deal with Henry Ellenson?  He hardly ever plays at all.  He's played a total of 10 games all year.  And it's not as if the Pistons are having a great year, and can't afford to develop a rookie.

It has to be one of two explanations, or a combination.  Either Ellenson completely sucks and is another blown draft pick, or else SVG completely sucks at developing young players.

We should have taken Deyonta Davis instead.
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Sparma: I'll settle for bearable...

Post  Oracle on Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:10 pm

Nice trip down memory lane as a way to explain you Avatar and posting name. There appears to be a solid method behind your madness Smile

I expect nothing from the Lions... nothing! I recognize that Stafford's hand is an issue, but since he's starting... oh well, you know the drill. Yeah, the Seahawks are beatable, but they wouldn't be the Lions if they didn't get beat by a beatable team on the regular.

The Pistons are another story. If they're going to save this season they're going to have to do it the hard way... win on the road out west! This upcoming road trip is going to be tough, but there are winnable games to be had, and they'll have to find a way to win them.

I also hope SVG uses the Baynes injury to get Boban up to speed. I was really pissed when we played Memphis and he wasn't used on Gasol. SVG should know that Gasol is much taller than Drummond and a bigger Boban would have at least bothered his shot.

We need to see what we have in him before Baynes leaves. While I like Baynes, he's the slowest dude I've seen in awhile and they can forget the delusion that he's starting material in this NBA.

Stanley Johnson is playing really good and doing exactly what the coach wants and the team needs. I'm glad to see him dig in and do that because I know he wants to do more, but he's playing smart not selfish.

To take the next step he will need to put more points on the board, or at a minimum, become more efficient in the points he does score. But if he continues with the defense and smart passing like he's displayed, the rest will come.

As I've said before, I look forward to the day I can see Stanley & KCP together in the starting lineup. That would set a defensive tone and hopefully get us off to good leads. You need your best defense to start games for a lot of reasons, and those two could really do that for us.

Finally, Reggie is rounding into form here lately! I can now see how he can get his and deliver enough touches to others for us to win. His pressure on defenses is very different from the way Ish pressured defenses. Reggie can and will break them down to score a lot more often, and if you sag off of him, he has solid 3 point shooting capability to make teams pay.

He's beginning to remember where his teammates like to get the ball and he's also remembering who should get it and when. The biggest thing I don't like is when they over try to reward Drummond for steals or running the floor.

Reward him, yes, but I've seen too many passes to him where he has trouble converting, or where he will likely get an offensive foul. They need to get a bit smarter about that, and it's not just the guards.
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When will it be fun again?

Post  Sparma on Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:10 pm

The Lions, notoriously, are one of the most frustrating team to root for ever. Lots of gritty performances this season, even good 1st half performances late, but....

The Tigers look like they're on a long slide downward, lacking the organizational commitment to block the decline. They need a CF, but let a good one go in Maybin, finding him overpaid at 9 mil. Even when they were really good under Dombrowski they were a maddening team to root for because you could see their weird construction would be their downfall.

I'm a fair weather Wings fan (and there's been a lot of fair weather in the past!), but they look rudderless.

I've found the Pistons' ascendance from the depths inspirational, but I don't particularly enjoy their brand of basketball, and its ceiling looks in sight, barring a miracle.

As a kid, I went to my first Tigers game in 1965, Joe Sparma against Cleveland's Sam McDowell. Exciting stuff. Aging sucks, and it's not easy to get so excited about sports, but it also was just a fun team to follow, well on its way to the greatness that followed.

Another fun patch was 1980 when the Lions started 4-0 with Billy Sims starring, blasting Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust" after each victory. That parade soon stalled though, with the team narrowly missing the playoffs at 9-7.

Rooting for the Bad Boys and the 2004 champions was fun, not just because they were great, but because they both played a hard working, team oriented, unselfish brand of basketball.

As a Michigan fan, I do get to root for Tom Brady.

The Lions still could make an exciting run, but that seems like a long shot (even though Seattle does look very beatable this year).




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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:59 am

Oracle wrote:Pistons: I almost turned off the Pistons in the first half, but stuck with them to see them remember who they were and who they were playing.

They looked terrible early and great late!

Lions: The Lions backed into the playoffs as the Redskins lost, so now they need a win to win the division and get a much needed bye to gather their strength... let's see what happens!

The one positive thing that happened other than winning the game against a horrible team was the play of Reggie Jackson. Other than the one time when he came into the game in the 4th quarter and on the first offensive possession launched his own shot without making a pass, I thought Jackson played a solid basketball game especially in the 3rd quarter.

Andre Drummond's defensive effort in the 3rd quarter brought a spark that had been missing for two weeks. It got the team going when he stole the ball not giving up after deflecting it earlier. In the first half Drummond could have scored at least 10 more points if he would only dunk the basketball especially knowing that Miami was playing without a center for the entire game. Drummond's stats might be misleading because Miami had no big men but still without Drummond's outstanding effort our Pistons would have lost this game.

This Miami team was able to score over 60 points in the first half and three of their key players who kicked the Pistons ass were all players who have been rejects passed over in the draft. Detroit got no shot blocks that I saw in this entire basketball game. In the second half, the only difference was the fact that Miami missed a lot of open shots that they were making in the first half. Greg Kelser was trying to be kind by saying the Pistons were showing marked improvement on defense. They played a team that is now trying to get a high draft pick in June. The head coach of Miami did a fantastic job his players. Miami's GM must have been worried that the Heat might win the game because of Detroit's lack of defensive skills.

Ish Smith played another horrible basketball game. The Piston were getting blown out in the first quarter again when some of the subs came in to cut into Miami's lead. Then Ish Smith entered the basketball game and the Pistons good fortune went into the toilet once again with a series of mental blunders on both offense and defense. Did any of you see the Miami players picking on Smith when the Pistons were on defense. Attack Smith and you can't lose. Trying to make up for his inability to defend, Smith decided to shoot the basketball and missed on every attempt. a very understanding Stan van Gundy most likely told Ish not to worry, he has Smith's back no matter how badly he might play. In the 2nd half Smith's minutes was reduced and he didn't try to shoot the basketball. Still he was usually out of control driving into problems without knowing where his teammates were located. I saw Beno looking hopeful during a timeout when Smith caused the Pistons to go back down by 12 points but it was not to be. That must suck for Beno to sit on the bench and watch the coach ignore mistakes by his Pets.

Meanwhile, Stanley Johnson set screens, passed the basketball to players with more open looks and rebounded. He played good defense during the Pistons comeback in the first half but made one mistake of going under a screen and his man hit a baseline 3 point shot. That made SVG very angry so Johnson was removed from the game. Smith can make 30 mistakes a game with no penalty. Can anyone see why the team chemistry is not so good this season. Some players are on pins and needles worrying about making one error while Van Gundy's Pet players can screw up 6 times in a row and somehow those mistakes are not important. Is going under a screen and a guy drilling a difficult 3 pointer worse than a point guard dribbling into the paint out of control and shooting a wild shot without making one pass in the half court offense? Over the past month it appears that Stan Van Gundy must have experienced electrical shock treatment and had some brain cells removed so he can tolerate watching his back up point guard. Or is coach Stan Van Gundy hearing voices during games which prevents him from concentrating on the action on the court? Could it be that SVG the President and GM talking in tongues to the head coach SVG saying I signed that guy so don't question my judgment or I will fire you and bring in Michael Curry as head coach.

After the game, the coach and players were all smiles. I am happy for the players. But this game proved once again that Detroit is a horrible defensive team much like the Detroit Lions. How embarrassing was that loss on Ford field? However, I predict an upset in Seattle by our Lions next week.

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Good Win is a Good Win

Post  BallinD on Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:06 pm

Clicking on a few cylinders beats a bad team sometimes.  I liked the D down the stretch.  Good Win.  Good way to start the year.  

Go Lions Go Zenner. Go Stafford!
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Pistons pull out heater, gun down Miami, Lions back into playoffs

Post  Oracle on Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:31 pm

Pistons: I almost turned off the Pistons in the first half, but stuck with them to see them remember who they were and who they were playing.

They looked terrible early and great late!

Lions: The Lions backed into the playoffs as the Redskins lost, so now they need a win to win the division and get a much needed bye to gather their strength... let's see what happens!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:44 pm

Sparma wrote:[Oracle:] "I agree with Sparma, what in the world is SVG talking about? If Morris has an injury, and I do remember he sat out with that knee before, then why is he playing games talking about a lineup change like it's NOT about injury.
Things may only appear out of sync." [Lemonpen:] "My take is that Stan vowed to the world a change was a-coming, told Morris of the change to him coming off of the bench, MM did not take it well at all fully knowing RJ is the REAL problem, MM tactfully refused to do it claiming injury. Another FUBAR."

I see the Morris issue roughly like Lemonpen, but slightly differently.  I think, along with Oracle, that Morris has a knee problem of longstanding.  Having had a couple of knee surgeries, I'm familiar with chronic knee discomfort which becomes painful, even aggravated, when playing basketball, even at the recreational level.  Maybe Morris should even be given credit for having been playing through the pain, even risking making matters worse.  My guess though (along with Lemon) is that when SVG told Morris he's be a reserve (even if only situationally), Morris then decided, rather than earlier, that he wouldn't be playing against Atlanta.  If the word is that it's unclear about when he'll be back, there's a good chance that he should be sitting out, and maybe that he already should have been.  But my guess is that SVG's news to Morris triggered a kind of enough's enough reaction (something like: here I've been putting my body in jeopardy for the team, I've tried to be a leader, and this is how I get treated?), causing him to take action with respect to his very real knee problem yesterday, rather than sooner or later.

If the coach has looked at the game film for the past two weeks, he should have determined that the team would function better if Morris was not in the starting lineup. My memory of the games over the past two to three weeks is that Morris was not playing solid defense very often. He turned it up like a lot of NBA players in the 4th quarter but the damage had already been done earlier by opposing teams. Morris depends on his long range jump shot from the wing. The basketball Gods decided to punish him over this span of time that the team has been losing big because he just couldn't connect from beyond the 3 point line. So it really surprised me a lot when the coach decided to punish Harris who has been the best player on the team all season long.

Knowing that Harris is the best player, it might be interesting for Forum readers to know what was behind the one sided trade Van Gundy pulled off with Orlando when he secured the rights to Harris last season. While talking to some of the basketball insiders at the U of Arizona over the holidays, this subject came up. Orlando had signed Harris to the deal Detroit now holds. When signing Harris, Orlando thought they had a solid long term player in Harris. However, in training camp, something caught the eye of management. That was Arron Gordon and how he was able to shut down Harris in practice and run the court faster and play with such an incredible motor that he stood out everyday in every way. That is what I saw when Gordon played one season as a 17 year old at Arizona. When you see him up close in person running the court, Gordon stands out as having more energy than any other player in every game he played as a college player. For you retired basketball players, you would know about how important this factor is. When some of us played in high school, it was clear to us that we had the upper hand because we never got tired regardless of how hard we pushed ourselves. Other high school players just couldn't keep up with us and didn't have the smarts or quickness on defense or offense. We had the feeling that nobody on any team could stop us from doing what we wanted. Then we go to college and in the first practice we recognize that everyone has this special quality of superior energy needed to think while in cardio pain and read the weaknesses of the players you play against. I never made it to the pros but know that this next level in the NBA separates players once again to a more extreme level of cardio ability and mental stamina. Arron Gordon is special because of his cardio gifts and his desire to become great. Orlando management needed to move Harris to make room for Gordon. Last season, Gordon took his lumps making mistakes and screwing up the offense big time. But he was always solid on defense. And management did the right thing sacrificing some wins they would surely have with Harris to have a better future with Gordon. Last week Gordon scored 30 points against Memphis Grizzles. His improvement as a shooter is off the chards good. He averaged only 12 points at Arizona and most of those points came from dunks. Now Gordon has had 30 point plus games twice in a 12 day period. That included 33 points against the defensive minded Clippers. Surprise, Gordon is only 21 years old. If Orlando had a coach like Stan Van Gundy, Gordon would still be on the bench and Harris would still be in a Orlando uniform, SVG wants to win NOW. Is he the best guy to have input in the front office?

I keep saying that the right player to start now at small forward is Stanley Johnson.. Oracle says Johnson needs to earn the time he gets. I believe in that as well but this team needs somebody other than a guy who is looking for his own shot. Johnson has showed that he is a guy who knows how to find open shooters. He can use his body to set screens for other players especially in the paint. I don't see Drummond setting any picks in the paint. The reason why is that Drummond is not a quick enough mentally yet to take action and see situations well. If Johnson doesn't start, he needs to be one of the leaders on this team not guys like Drummond or Jackson. They are both hot dog players who need to be told by other players what to do. They will never be leaders because both Drummond and Jackson although promising players with special gifts do not have high basketball IQs themselves. Johnson does have that gift which he has used many times over the years to help create teams that won championships. Johnson knows what he is talking about and I have watched him explain things to Jackson while they are sitting on the bench together. He is like a coach and his mother who was a professional and a very smart woman taught him the mental part of the game when he was a 7 year old kid. The current starters have no leader.

Neither Jackson or Smith will ever be solid two way point guards let alone leaders in the mold of Zeke. Zeke was a born leader and he had the good fortune of being drafted to a team with very little talent. That gave him a chance to play and make mistakes. I wonder what SVG would do if Thomas was a rookie now coming to the Pistons with this current team with Jackson and Smith on board with their current contracts. Would we ever see Thomas play even though Jackson and Smith are the two worst point guards currently playing in the NBA? Jackson might get back in his groove from last season within the next two weeks and become a 20 point plus scorer again. But can he play effective defense or run an offense? Can Jackson play the 2 guard spot and learn to play effectively without the ball in his hands so much? Jackson could become an elite defender with those long arms but he has never really enjoyed playing defense. You have to love playing defense to be good at it. What in hell can SVG be thinking about when he talks about changing the lineup and then decides on playing both Smith and Jackson at the same time? Does he watch what is happening in the games? Doesn't he know by now what all of the other NBA coaches know who coach against Van Gundy. All those other coaches know that neither Smith or Jackson are solid defenders who will never be able to guard elite guards like Wall or any of the others. It is insane thinking to play both of those guys the amount of minutes he is giving them and especially the idea to play them together. Beno is a better point guard for this Piston team. I believe our team would win more games with Beno starting and then coming in with the 2nd unit with a point forward concept. Play Jackson at the 2 guard and trade Smith with Drummond for more draft picks or a solid defensive minded center.

Happy New Year Piston fans!

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Morris

Post  Sparma on Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:38 pm

[Oracle:] "I agree with Sparma, what in the world is SVG talking about? If Morris has an injury, and I do remember he sat out with that knee before, then why is he playing games talking about a lineup change like it's NOT about injury.
Things may only appear out of sync." [Lemonpen:] "My take is that Stan vowed to the world a change was a-coming, told Morris of the change to him coming off of the bench, MM did not take it well at all fully knowing RJ is the REAL problem, MM tactfully refused to do it claiming injury. Another FUBAR."

I see the Morris issue roughly like Lemonpen, but slightly differently.  I think, along with Oracle, that Morris has a knee problem of longstanding.  Having had a couple of knee surgeries, I'm familiar with chronic knee discomfort which becomes painful, even aggravated, when playing basketball, even at the recreational level.  Maybe Morris should even be given credit for having been playing through the pain, even risking making matters worse.  My guess though (along with Lemon) is that when SVG told Morris he's be a reserve (even if only situationally), Morris then decided, rather than earlier, that he wouldn't be playing against Atlanta.  If the word is that it's unclear about when he'll be back, there's a good chance that he should be sitting out, and maybe that he already should have been.  But my guess is that SVG's news to Morris triggered a kind of enough's enough reaction (something like: here I've been putting my body in jeopardy for the team, I've tried to be a leader, and this is how I get treated?), causing him to take action with respect to his very real knee problem yesterday, rather than sooner or later.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:13 pm

WTF wrote:Yeah but isn't that what we've been seeing the past few years? coaches and organization trying to turn players into something they're not. The Pistons have been one of the main culprits under both Dumars and now SVG. Barkley is correct the league sucks, the players sucks, analytics sucks because they put too much meaningless **** into it rendering it completely useless for the most part.


Nothing wrong with Old School thinking Mr. Barkley it is what it is and the game use to be a lot better for a variety of reasons (analytics and stats don't tell you **** about heart and effort) I can't see one player on our team with the heart of a champion, eye of the tiger, or a will of steel. What we get is a lot of hope and dream scenarios that some underdeveloped player will eventually turn it around. facepalm

Fans have changed as well because this new generation of fans and some of the old fans have accepted this sub-par product and cheer it to high heavens as if its the best thing ever. Sadly the bar has been lowered while the 3pt line becomes more popular. Barkley you could run for Commish wear a stupid cap that say's make the NBA great again.

Okay Lions this for all the marbles so get your **** together you need this win.

okay another last minute loss for the Wolverines

WTF this was a great post. You described so well the real truth "COACHES AND ORGANIZATIONS TRYING TO TURN PLAYERS INTO SOMETHING THEY'RE NOT". We fans want to believe that a the organization knows something that we do not see on the floor from those players. Fans say the talent is there but the organization has failed when things go south. But in the NBA the only truth is that players decide things not the coaches. A GM can and should remove at least two or more of the current so called team leaders so we can find out the truth about the rest of the players on this team.

I respect and love listening to what our best all time Piston player ZEKE says. He knows Detroit has key players who do not belong in any starting lineup. He knows that both Jackson and Smith are not in his league in any way as team leaders and high IQ players. What would he do if he had SVG's job as both coach and President? I can't imagine Thomas keeping the point guards who are currently playing. He would go to a point forward system on offense which would reduce turnovers and stabilize the defense. And I am sure Thomas would be looking to move Andre Drummond for the right price or he would make one more attempt to create a new Andre Drummond who is interested in learning how to play defense the right way. Drummond could be a monster All Star caliber defensive player. He is extremely athletic and could be a good shot blocker and defensive rebounder. What does the team need Andre. Can you fill that need or don't you give a crap? We all want to know. Can anyone turn a low basketball IQ player into a high basketball IQ player? WTF I really don't think that is possible but all we can do is hope unless SVG grows a set of balls.

The players who handle the ball the most on this team are first level type players who excel on the playground not in organized basketball. Imagine our two point guards getting getting in the Spurs rotation. That would never happen with their coach.

Take Reggie, Drummond, Smith out of any future considerations in building a real team and bring in Ball now playing at UCLA and there would be an entirely different outlook and the remaining players would be so damn happy and would get that feeling that basketball is a really fun game to play. Most of our Piston players are not having fun. They are stressed. They don't like the shimmy or the dribbling between the legs of the point guards. Those guys should be playing with Charlie V in China.

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Mediocre, Middling Is What You Get

Post  BallinD on Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:06 pm

It's a Mess  Not a good team.  No hunger, no pride, no urgency.  No coaching. No BBall IQ.  Not saying it is a bad collection of players, but it takes a f#ck of a lot more than that to make a TEAM. Together Each Achieves More.


KaySlay wrote:We have a leadership and motivation problem.  It's an even bigger problem because it exists with our 3 most important people.

DRUMMOND He showed his true colors over the summer, getting dunked on multiple times in the Drew League. Color him SOFT. I could never imagine this happening to a Big Ben, Laimbeer, or any one else that prides themselves on their play. Drummond is content being a good player, accentuated by that stupid shimmy he does on meaningless plays. His ceiling is limited.

Reggie He showed his true colors when he came back and played the exact opposite that Ish did, ignoring the success he watched from the bench. Unsurprisingly, the team suffered. We called a team meeting. Reggie sulked and pouted and proceeded to sabatoge the game to make a point. IDC what he does going forward I could never trust someone after such a selfish move.

SVG He showed us his true colors by completely lacking foresight and putting us in this mess. Since the bonehead benching our beautifully running engine Ish Smith, we have backfired and sputtered (PUN). The surprising and concerning part is he seems unable to right the ship. This is his team, his players and his choices.

KaySlay, I agree that it is his mess and his to fix, and that I am surprised he seems so inept now.You can't like the shimmy, it's his immature way of showing he is engaged, I'd rather see a blocked shot though I know that's asking too much.

Oracle:
Let's face it, SVG really made a big mistake starting Reggie so soon,[b] but I would have done the same thing, and almost any coach would have too[b]. Oracle, sorry, I can't agree with that at all, It was easy to see the element of "If it aint broke don't fix it," but it's hindsight at this point. Yeah I'll whine about it, but that's not what really bothers me. My biggest fear now is that SVG feels like he needs to "Do Something", when the best thing to do is the most unpopular... don't change a damn thing and let them work through this and get their mojo back.  I sorta agree with this last point, but IMO playing through it will require much better coaching, and actual play calling.  The players still look confused and mostly unmotivated (going through the motions out there) although they played as a team during the aborted comeback.
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Just Maybe

Post  lemonpen on Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:54 pm

Oracle wrote:For 3 quarters I struggled to figure out WTF these guys were trying to do, the offense is incoherent!

Even Ish isn't playing like he used to, he's walking the ball up like Reggie now, who knows what's going on.

I agree with Sparma, what in the world is SVG talking about? If Morris has an injury, and I do remember he sat out with that knee before, then why is he playing games talking about a lineup change like it's NOT about injury.
Things may only appear out of sync. My take is that Stan vowed to the world a change was a-coming, told Morris of the change to him coming off of the bench, MM did not take it well at all fully knowing RJ is the REAL problem, MM tactfully refused to do it claiming injury. Another FUBAR.

Let's face it, SVG really made a big mistake starting Reggie so soon, but I would have done the same thing, and almost any coach would have too. Yeah I'll whine about it, but that's not what really bothers me.

My biggest fear now is that SVG feels like he needs to "Do Something", when the best thing to do is the most unpopular... don't change a damn thing and let them work through this and get their mojo back!

He needs to protect them from us crazy fans and the media until they get their chemistry together, because if he keeps sowing seeds of doubt, the whole team will lose confidence.

Looking in the Mirror: SVG needs to realize that he can't make them into what they aren't. Listen to Charles Barkley(just a little, because most of his stuff is bat crap crazy)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/charles-barkley-believes-the-nba-is-%e2%80%98the-worst-it%e2%80%99s-ever-been%e2%80%99/ar-BBxJJn8?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=UE01DHP wrote:“If you look at the NBA now, it’s the worst it’s ever been, in my opinion. Everybody want to use analytics, everybody want to shoot threes. Threes are great if you have a Steph Curry, a Klay Thompson, guys like that … But now, if you look around the NBA, everybody is trying to go small. We got a bunch of guys shooting threes who are not good shooters. Now we’re trying to to relegate the big man out of the game.

If you look at the big picture — and this ain’t no ‘old guy hating on the young guys’ — the NBA is the worst it’s ever been, top to bottom. We got one or two, three or four good teams, and the rest of the teams stink.”

On analytics:

“People think I hate analytics. I hate analytics when you try to justify a way to figure out how you’re going to win.
If you go back and look at the NBA for the last 30 years, you know who won the championship? The team with the best players.”


There's a video of the conversation on that site as well.
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Re: FORUM

Post  WTF on Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:07 pm

KWAME BROWN PLAYED BETTER DEFENSE THAN DRUMMOND......WHERE THE HELL IS KWAME? Sadly Andre is the weakest defender at the center position in the history of the franchise, Sadley he's worse than Moose and I thought I would never be able to say such a thing like that.
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Rousey

Post  KaySlay on Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:25 pm

Anyone see the Ronda Rousey demolition last night? TKO. Man has she fallen fast! It almost appeared as she has lost the fight in her. Remind you of anyone?

Her fall reminds me of this Pistons team. Looked good at first. Others around got better. We got figured out, then exposed. Finally we lost the fight in us and our heart no longer appears to be in the game.

This is a bigger problem than I even thought existed. IMHO not making a change and waiting it out will do nothing except push us closer to the lottery. Actually that may not be a bad idea lol. Or should we keep waiting for the magic from last season to miraculously return? facepalm

We all agree we DO NOT have a talent problem. We have a leadership and motivation problem.  It's an even bigger problem because it exists with our 3 most important people.

DRUMMOND He showed his true colors over the summer, getting dunked on multiple times in the Drew League. Color him SOFT. I could never imagine this happening to a Big Ben, Laimbeer, or any one else that prides themselves on their play. Drummond is content being a good player, accentuated by that stupid shimmy he does on meaningless plays. His ceiling is limited.

Reggie He showed his true colors when he came back and played the exact opposite that Ish did, ignoring the success he watched from the bench. Unsurprisingly, the team suffered. We called a team meeting. Reggie sulked and pouted and proceeded to sabatoge the game to make a point. IDC what he does going forward I could never trust someone after such a selfish move.

SVG He showed us his true colors by completely lacking foresight and putting us in this mess. Since the bonehead benching our beautifully running engine Ish Smith, we have backfired and sputtered (PUN). The surprising and concerning part is he seems unable to right the ship. This is his team, his players and his choices.

Long post to say that the magic is gone. We have no heart. I'm not even sure what I am watching anymore. Rousey and the Pistons are in the same spot. BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD.
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Morning Morning People

Post  WTF on Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:03 pm

Yeah but isn't that what we've been seeing the past few years? coaches and organization trying to turn players into something they're not. The Pistons have been one of the main culprits under both Dumars and now SVG. Barkley is correct the league sucks, the players sucks, analytics sucks because they put too much meaningless **** into it rendering it completely useless for the most part.


Nothing wrong with Old School thinking Mr. Barkley it is what it is and the game use to be a lot better for a variety of reasons (analytics and stats don't tell you **** about heart and effort) I can't see one player on our team with the heart of a champion, eye of the tiger, or a will of steel. What we get is a lot of hope and dream scenarios that some underdeveloped player will eventually turn it around. facepalm

Fans have changed as well because this new generation of fans and some of the old fans have accepted this sub-par product and cheer it to high heavens as if its the best thing ever. Sadly the bar has been lowered while the 3pt line becomes more popular. Barkley you could run for Commish wear a stupid cap that say's make the NBA great again.

Okay Lions this for all the marbles so get your **** together you need this win.

okay another last minute loss for the Wolverines
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They don't know who they are anymore...

Post  Oracle on Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:59 am

For 3 quarters I struggled to figure out WTF these guys were trying to do, the offense is incoherent!

Even Ish isn't playing like he used to, he's walking the ball up like Reggie now, who knows what's going on.

I agree with Sparma, what in the world is SVG talking about? If Morris has an injury, and I do remember he sat out with that knee before, then why is he playing games talking about a lineup change like it's NOT about injury.

Let's face it, SVG really made a big mistake starting Reggie so soon, but I would have done the same thing, and almost any coach would have too. Yeah I'll whine about it, but that's not what really bothers me.

My biggest fear now is that SVG feels like he needs to "Do Something", when the best thing to do is the most unpopular... don't change a damn thing and let them work through this and get their mojo back!

He needs to protect them from us crazy fans and the media until they get their chemistry together, because if he keeps sowing seeds of doubt, the whole team will lose confidence.

Looking in the Mirror: SVG needs to realize that he can't make them into what they aren't. Listen to Charles Barkley(just a little, because most of his stuff is bat crap crazy)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/charles-barkley-believes-the-nba-is-%e2%80%98the-worst-it%e2%80%99s-ever-been%e2%80%99/ar-BBxJJn8?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=UE01DHP wrote:“If you look at the NBA now, it’s the worst it’s ever been, in my opinion. Everybody want to use analytics, everybody want to shoot threes. Threes are great if you have a Steph Curry, a Klay Thompson, guys like that … But now, if you look around the NBA, everybody is trying to go small. We got a bunch of guys shooting threes who are not good shooters. Now we’re trying to to relegate the big man out of the game.

If you look at the big picture — and this ain’t no ‘old guy hating on the young guys’ — the NBA is the worst it’s ever been, top to bottom. We got one or two, three or four good teams, and the rest of the teams stink.”

On analytics:

“People think I hate analytics. I hate analytics when you try to justify a way to figure out how you’re going to win.
If you go back and look at the NBA for the last 30 years, you know who won the championship? The team with the best players.”


There's a video of the conversation on that site as well.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:36 am

Sparma wrote:Early in the day, a line up change was announced. Oracle and I both predicted that it would be Harris in for Morris. As it turned out, Harris started, with Morris out with injury.

Early on gameday, mlive reported: "The Pistons will have a different starting lineup tonight when they play the Atlanta Hawks at Philips Arena .... Van Gundy declined to reveal who would start, but shot down the idea of a drastic change. It could be as simple as a matchup configuration, like he hinted at last week involving Tobias Harris and Marcus Morris. Jon Leuer has replaced Harris in the starting lineup the last three games. [SVG:]
"There's a lot of things that go into it," Van Gundy said. "As I've said to you: I don't change a lot, but it's not as big a deal to me, either. It's more going into this game and where we think we are."

As I understand it, Morris has a knee problem that's bothered him all year.

Wouldn't SVG have alluded to an injury if that was the reason for the switch? Instead, he said stuff that could readily be interpreted as Morris being benched. And after that, Morris isn't able to play due to a season long injury?

Am I being overly suspicious there? I hope it all was just a coincidence.

The story relating to this game is not Morris and his knee issue. The story the GM needs to think about is how our Pistons lost this last game and the game before that and the game before that. SVG has to realize that he has the two worst point guards in the NBA. What other NBA point guards currently in rotations play as badly as our point guards on defense. Both are horrible but the coach has decided in the last two games to play both of them at the same time. That is incredible. Has Van Gundy taken the Jim Jones cool aide? isn Smith has now become the worst offensive point guard in the NBA as well as possibly the worst defender among point guards. Jackson is horrible on both ends but is improving so there is hope for Jackson but maybe not as a starter on a good team.

Then SVG must look at the starting center aka Franchise player. Who didn't see Howard make Drummond look like a rookie in this game? How many times did Drummond fail to box out on defense. ANDRE FAILED TO SCREEN OUT ON EVERY POSSESSION THAT ATLANTA HAD IN THIS GAME. How incredible is that fact? I beg you fans to watch Andre when shots are attempted by an opponent. I don't know anybody who plays like that with the exception of Greg Monroe. How can the coaches not go mad? You just cannot coach basketball IQ. This is not a coaching problem with the exception of their failure to bench players who do not play the right way. Our head coach needs to show that he has the guts to be a head coach. You cannot let your starters continue to make childish mistakes and ever have their respect or the respect of the fans.

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Weird?

Post  Sparma on Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:19 am

Early in the day, a line up change was announced. Oracle and I both predicted that it would be Harris in for Morris. As it turned out, Harris started, with Morris out with injury.

Early on gameday, mlive reported: "The Pistons will have a different starting lineup tonight when they play the Atlanta Hawks at Philips Arena .... Van Gundy declined to reveal who would start, but shot down the idea of a drastic change. It could be as simple as a matchup configuration, like he hinted at last week involving Tobias Harris and Marcus Morris. Jon Leuer has replaced Harris in the starting lineup the last three games. [SVG:]
"There's a lot of things that go into it," Van Gundy said. "As I've said to you: I don't change a lot, but it's not as big a deal to me, either. It's more going into this game and where we think we are."

As I understand it, Morris has a knee problem that's bothered him all year.

Wouldn't SVG have alluded to an injury if that was the reason for the switch? Instead, he said stuff that could readily be interpreted as Morris being benched. And after that, Morris isn't able to play due to a season long injury?

Am I being overly suspicious there? I hope it all was just a coincidence.
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TIDBITS

Post  WTF on Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:43 pm

RUMOR CENTRAL wrote:The Detroit Pistons have been one of the most disappointing teams through 39 games, sporting a 15-19 record and sitting at the bottom of the Central Division. Head coach and president of basketball operations Stan Van Gundy is trying to turn around the season, and Thursday he spoke to the media about possible solutions.

Rumor Central"I’m focused on getting this group to play better and to try to figure this out; my focus is not on changing everything," Van Gundy told the Detroit Free Press. "I’ve seen this group win; I know this group can win. I know this group can be good; I know this group should be better than it is. I’m approaching it as a coaching issue."

According to The Detroit News, Van Gundy does not see a trade as an option at this time. Of course, that thinking could change if the Pistons continue to slide in the Eastern Conference.

"There’s nothing that’s not on the table. Nothing. We’re just trying to find a way to make it work," Van Gundy said. "Everything is an option; everything’s on the table. You look at everything."

If Van Gundy does look to make any of his players available via trade, they might include Tobias Harris and Reggie Jackson. Since Jackson returned from his injury, the Pistons have a 4-9 record. Jackson, including this season, will make $66 million through 2019-20. Harris was recently dropped from the starting lineup and he's under contract through the 2018-19 season.

--- Nick Silva

Well it is a coaching issue so I guess the only other option GM SVG is to hire a better coach....

I think every player should be an option when it comes to trades possibilities. I kid you not both Andre and Reggie would be high on my list of first players to get bounced. I hate Andre got paid because he will not live up to it just like he doesn't live up being tag "franchise"

@Oracle. I couldn't believe I said it either but seriously I would rather see Knight and Moose than Reggie and Andre more time than not. Really the only schmuck that needs to be traded is Reggie hopefully for a pass first PG.
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Hot Stuff...

Post  Oracle on Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:56 pm

@DX - "BallinDKaySlay, I'm glad that you guys are here posting" - I totally agree, they have been to nice additions, and just what we needed to inject more fresh opinions here. Keep up the good work fellas!

@Wise - Moose and Knight??? If it wasn't in black and white, I wouldn't believe it! If there was a rail available to run them out of town on, you were the guy that was very happy to do it lol . But yeah, Moose didn't realize that he would get more love here.

@Ballin - I did notice the Reggie/Ish lineup, and thought it could work if done right, but again, the issue is the black hole known as Reggie Jackson... the ball goes in, but doesn't come out!

@KaySlay - Harris's numbers are way up, but we have to remember two things. First, he's playing against lesser talent, and secondly, he's almost the complete scoring focus of the 2nd unit. his numbers should come back to earth in the starting lineup.

@Sparma - I agree it's likely Morris coming off the bench, but hope springs eternal that it's Reggie. Morris makes the most sense because that allows SVG to start his biggest frontcourt of Drummond, Leuer and Harris. That's a nice frontcourt with both size and good athleticism, but it's likely not that great a defensive lineup except in occasions like this where we will have a size advantage.

@Don - Not sure what you mean about navigational issues, I haven't seen anything new, but there are a lot of small technical issues that I just ignore.

I wish I knew which team was going to show up on any given night. I really miss the Ish driven team, where KCP was allowed to utilize all of his skills and Harris was the offensive anchor and Drummond actually played better defense... DAMN!!!
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Line up Change Announced

Post  Sparma on Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:32 pm

I'm guessing it will be Harris in for Morris (just guessing, not endorsing).  And that it won't be for the long run, but situational (as SVG hints).

Doesn't address the big issues as described by Mahoney, which center on Reggie.

If I were SVG, I'd still pull Reggie from the starters.  SVG's set it up pretty well now, but focusing on his responsibility, and saying that everything's on the table.  Just acknowledge he made a mistake, and needs to re-integrate more slowly.

btw, (in agreement with "punster" on mlive) SVG obfuscates by highlighting how erratic the team is over the course of the season, making it difficult to diagnose the problem.  True enough, but there's a chasm between the (3) games B(efore)Reggie and the games A(fter)Reggie.  Focusing on that difference makes the diagnostic problem a whole heck of a lot easier.  Dude's working like the dickens to delay coming to grips with the obvious.  That said, I think SVG's fully aware of the dynamic Mahoney described.  It's just hard to know what to do when you've built the future around the Reggie-AD axis.  Clearly, Reggie needs to be addressed, but SVG knows he's a powder keg.

I'd suggest a couple of possibly unpopular trades to get the train moving in the right direction.  First, trade Tobias Harris (who's been called our best player, I think by Deus) for Goran Dragic.  The salaries match nearly perfectly (16 mil vs 15.75 mil).  I think the Heat would do it (there's a call for a Heat rebuild; Harris is 6 years younger), even if a lot of fan't wouldn't.  That gives you an excellent shooter and distributor, who can play uptempo.  Ellenson would need to step up behind Leuer and Morris, and maybe Stanley J too.  You'd need to move a PG, but I don't know what you could get for Reggie.  It'd be simple to move Ish, but that would leave Reggie as back up guard (at both spots), which would lead to a sulk fest.  Best to cut losses then, and unload Reggie.  You might be worse off to begin with, but I think it'd create a more sustainable brand of basketball in the long run.  Even if they make the playoffs this year, I can't see them going far.  Restructure, with a pretty straightforward, realistic, move.  If it's unbalanced, see if the Heat would give us a 2nd rounder too.

PS: Talk of a Dragic back problem gives me pause.

PPS: Cool, I don't know what's going on with your posts.  It looks like it's just yours though.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:40 pm

BallinD wrote:Looking behind you to move forward, is like driving blindfolded.

SVG said he is baffled at the team's performance because he saw how good they could be last year.  Well La De Da, ain't that special.  Earth to SVG and Pistons Braintrust, this is a different year, and the Rob Mahoney SI article argued that last year's performance (heavily dependent on Reggie's dribble dribble dribble routine) was scouted out, outed and detracted from any flow the team might have.  It was fools gold Stan and looking back to move forward ain't gonna cut it.

SVG: “My issue right now is I look at a team where we have a roster of guys where we return seven guys that were in our rotation last year, who won 60 percent of their games when they were together and got in the playoffs,” he said.

“We added two good players to the rotation, who have done their job well — Ish and Jon — and we’re not as good. I know that those guys are good and it’s worked. I saw those guys play well for stretches this season.”

BallinD wrote:
cool breeze wrote:Van Gundy is dancing around the real issue. The starters he has selected do not play smart together and that affects what happens with the 2nd unit."

I had a flash the other day watching the Milwaukee game that we had one, maybe two high bball IQ players on the whole team.

Cool: It seems that everyone is blowing out this Piston team and our players are not sandbagging. They are trying to play hard. The truth is that Van Gundy has acquired too many players who are want to be shooters. Nobody in the starting unit are facilitator types who love to set screens, move without the basketball, rebound, and play help defense. Too many players do not have the ability to recognise situations on the floor that is is critical in Van Gundy's offensive system. That means they do not have high basketball IQs like our heroes from the past like Zeke who was a master of basketball opportunities that the defensive gives you. Hats off to the job that the Bucks head coach has done. The Bucks have done a great job to find those high basketball IQ pl

Forum: Who do you think are the high bball IQ players. I think maybe Leuer and Harris, maybe Beno is next.  KCP is coming, but he has a long way to go.

What do you guys think??

I'm trying to figure who we keep, and who to make available.


Cool:  Detroit can no longer compete with teams that have developed their high draft picks. Stan has tried hard to build a team with leftover vets that other teams have decided were either chemistry killers or just don't have what it takes to beat superior basketball players on other teams. Tinkering with the lineup to take Harris out of the starting unit when other NBA teams recognize that he is the best player on the Piston team and gear their defenses to stop him is insane.

Zeke was one of the commentators on NBA TV last night and he noted that if you are the best scorer on a team, it usually causes problems if the coach places you on the bench in favor of an inferior player. I haven't seen that Morris can guard small forwards especially the really good NBA small forwards. Morris has difficulty guarding power forwards. Lauer is not a supreme defensive player but he might be more effective depending on match ups than Morris at power forward. But is Morris a better defender than Harris at the small forward position. Van Gundy must think that he hit the jackpot when he signed Morris. And Morris sure was effective last season. But now other NBA teams have scouted the Pistons and force Morris to jack up that long range jump shot. He is not a great penetrator. Harris can be effective off the dribble.

And of course there is the other option to play Stanley Johnson at small forward instead of shooting guard. Johnson a much better defender of small forwards than either Morris or Harris. But Johnson has no rhythm or confidence so far with his jump shot. One thing Johnson can do is break down the defense and pass effectively. Johnson is also a player who looks to set screens in the paint to open things up for other players.

I agree that he is showing signs of playing the right way and playing with force.


The current status of the Detroit Pistons is that they are a high lottery team at best. Philly looks like they have more promising players and they did blow out the Pistons on their last meeting.

The really funny thing in all of this is Van Gundy's statements that "he is at a loss over Pistons' fluctuations". Andre Drummond is not a smart basketball player either on offense or defense. He is the franchise player. The rest of the vets are rejects from other teams.  The team chemistry is clearly horrible.

Anyone know what has happened relating to how difficult it has become to navigate and use this forum???

BallinD Stan Van Gundy should have known from the very beginning of the regular season that his players did not improve over the summer months. How many players reflected on how they could improve on defense. Smith was starting and trying to mirror himself to Jackson's style most likely because SVG told him to play that way. Smith struggled and tried too hard to speed up the tempo. But lazy fundamentally unsound starters could not make stops so Smith could push the ball on missed shots. Remember the amount of second chance opportunities this team gave up in the early months of the season? So Smith tried to still get the team in an up tempo mood after makes and when he received the basketball on the baseline, he would go solo as fast as he could straight into trouble in the painted area. The turnovers were plentiful and yet the coach never seemed to be able to make a dent in the issue of faulty fundamentals with the starting unit on defense. On offense being there is no structure at all in SVG's offensive plan, players would get to their spots so SVG would not yell at them for improper floor spacing and then just stand and watch the point guard (Smith) go nuts on his own. Then after some really dull outings, Smith slowed things down and really cut is turnovers down. The ball moved around more and a few wins happened. But still when watching the offense, I was struck by the lack of complexity with the half court offense considering the Pistons are playing games in the NBA and not out on the streets of Detroit. This one on one style became so lame other teams finally had the formula to not just beat the Pistons but to blow them out before the 4th quarter. This of course happened on the return of Reggie Jackson. He should not have been placed in a position of starting right off the bat. That is too much pressure for any player who has to direct his team. Things went from bad to worse until this point in time. The craziest creation was this idea that the offense should involve Andre Drummond posting in the paint and receiving the initial pass and then slowly trying to shoot his low percentage off balance shots against pressure. Since when has Andre Drummond become a go to guy on offense? Why in hell didn't SVG set a standard that Andre Drummond must be a defensive weapon instead of a liability on defense? What kind of work has been done by the coaching staff to help perfect a better defensive game plan that involves Andre Drummond using 80% of his total energy on the defensive end? He is playing extremely stupid and lazy on defense in most games. When he plays hard with purpose on defense this team is very different. You have to blame the coach for his players not having the right focus. But maybe his players are just not coachable players when thinking of defense.

On another subject because our players really suck, I think it might be time to talk about the college players and possible trades that could get the Pistons back on track with some potentially superior players. I watched the UCLA-Oregon game a couple of nights ago and couldn't believe how well both teams executed on both defense and offense. Both teams played smart right up to the end when Brooks hit the clutch 3 pointer with 8 seconds left. Ball, the point guard for UCLA is a really special player who is going to make some team into a champion. He defends really well for starters. And he is a genuine play makers who could run circles around both of our point guards on this Piston team mentally and physically. There was no dribbling between the legs coming up the court to show off. He is all business and made play after play in crunch time. There are some really good college players who will declare for the draft this next summer. The Pistons need to be in position to take advantage of this opportunity. Stan Van Gundy the GM has to open his eyes and see the truth that this group of players he uses as starters do not have what it takes mentally to ever become champs.

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Looking for Love in All The Wrong Places

Post  BallinD on Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:26 pm

Looking behind you to move forward, is like driving blindfolded.

SVG said he is baffled at the team's performance because he saw how good they could be last year.  Well La De Da, ain't that special.  Earth to SVG and Pistons Braintrust, this is a different year, and the Rob Mahoney SI article argued that last year's performance (heavily dependent on Reggie's dribble dribble dribble routine) was scouted out, outed and detracted from any flow the team might have.  It was fools gold Stan and looking back to move forward ain't gonna cut it.

SVG: “My issue right now is I look at a team where we have a roster of guys where we return seven guys that were in our rotation last year, who won 60 percent of their games when they were together and got in the playoffs,” he said.

“We added two good players to the rotation, who have done their job well — Ish and Jon — and we’re not as good. I know that those guys are good and it’s worked. I saw those guys play well for stretches this season.”

BallinD wrote:
cool breeze wrote:Van Gundy is dancing around the real issue. The starters he has selected do not play smart together and that affects what happens with the 2nd unit."

I had a flash the other day watching the Milwaukee game that we had one, maybe two high bball IQ players on the whole team.

Cool: It seems that everyone is blowing out this Piston team and our players are not sandbagging. They are trying to play hard. The truth is that Van Gundy has acquired too many players who are want to be shooters. Nobody in the starting unit are facilitator types who love to set screens, move without the basketball, rebound, and play help defense. Too many players do not have the ability to recognise situations on the floor that is is critical in Van Gundy's offensive system. That means they do not have high basketball IQs like our heroes from the past like Zeke who was a master of basketball opportunities that the defensive gives you. Hats off to the job that the Bucks head coach has done. The Bucks have done a great job to find those high basketball IQ pl

Forum: Who do you think are the high bball IQ players. I think maybe Leuer and Harris, maybe Beno is next.  KCP is coming, but he has a long way to go.

What do you guys think??

I'm trying to figure who we keep, and who to make available.


Cool:  Detroit can no longer compete with teams that have developed their high draft picks. Stan has tried hard to build a team with leftover vets that other teams have decided were either chemistry killers or just don't have what it takes to beat superior basketball players on other teams. Tinkering with the lineup to take Harris out of the starting unit when other NBA teams recognize that he is the best player on the Piston team and gear their defenses to stop him is insane.

Zeke was one of the commentators on NBA TV last night and he noted that if you are the best scorer on a team, it usually causes problems if the coach places you on the bench in favor of an inferior player. I haven't seen that Morris can guard small forwards especially the really good NBA small forwards. Morris has difficulty guarding power forwards. Lauer is not a supreme defensive player but he might be more effective depending on match ups than Morris at power forward. But is Morris a better defender than Harris at the small forward position. Van Gundy must think that he hit the jackpot when he signed Morris. And Morris sure was effective last season. But now other NBA teams have scouted the Pistons and force Morris to jack up that long range jump shot. He is not a great penetrator. Harris can be effective off the dribble.

And of course there is the other option to play Stanley Johnson at small forward instead of shooting guard. Johnson a much better defender of small forwards than either Morris or Harris. But Johnson has no rhythm or confidence so far with his jump shot. One thing Johnson can do is break down the defense and pass effectively. Johnson is also a player who looks to set screens in the paint to open things up for other players.

I agree that he is showing signs of playing the right way and playing with force.


The current status of the Detroit Pistons is that they are a high lottery team at best. Philly looks like they have more promising players and they did blow out the Pistons on their last meeting.

The really funny thing in all of this is Van Gundy's statements that "he is at a loss over Pistons' fluctuations". Andre Drummond is not a smart basketball player either on offense or defense. He is the franchise player. The rest of the vets are rejects from other teams.  The team chemistry is clearly horrible.
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Of Course.......

Post  WTF on Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:57 am

Reggie isn't answer facepalm


I've been a long time fan of traditional guard play and I'll never buy into this new trend or whatever the hell it is of having ball dominate PG's try to run an offense. SVG I understand but for the majority of Pistons fans that have seen the play of our PG's during our best years why do we except what's currently gone on the past few seasons just amazes me.

The same with coaching we have had 4 or 5 exceptional coaches during our best years so we know what good coaching looks like as well. We could sit and watch a game know what plays were being called and see it play out on both ends of the court. We saw players moving with a purpose.

I have not seen fundamentally sound basketball being played since Flip last coached us. I have not seen players coached to their talent since Flip last coached here. By no means to I proclaim that Flip, Chuck, LB, Collins or Rick perfect in their individual methods of coaching but damned if we didn't see its purpose, damned if they didn't utilize the talent they had more often than not.

I'm so tired of getting all these under developed players and crossing my fingers they are going to get better as time progresses only to see them drafted and traded away before it happens. Many of them because they were poorly coached while they were here. KCP will likely become another player come season end that will end up becoming another wasted draft pick.

Our play from both the PG and center positions hurts this team tremendously we have a ball-hog and a pussy at both positions and I don't understand why we don't scream bloody murder after having Zeke and CB, or Bill and Ben all 4 champions numbers retired in rafters. No doubt the current players might be more talented and that's a big might but they are dumb ice water without ice.

When I think about GM's of course I think about Trader Jack who didn't make moves just to make moves but to progress every seasons. IMO Reggie wasn't the right move largely because he wasn't the proper fit, not trading KCP wrong decision because of fit but more so because he's not used properly.

It's bad when I can sit here and think about trading both Jackson and Drummond for 2 players I hated while they were here Moose and Knight. facepalm

Hoping Andrea don't make the All Star so his ass can come back to reality. All Stars lead their teams to big win and 10 game win streaks not 5 and 6 games losing streaks.
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You think?

Post  deusXango on Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:32 am

The Pistons are now losers of six of their last seven games and have fallen to 11th in the Eastern Conference. They’ve been thrown totally out of whack by Reggie Jackson’s return from injury and are currently a bottom-10 offense in terms of both points per game and offensive rating (per NBA.com).

Everybody that's locked into reality can see what our coach is trying to figure out; Reggie isn't the answer for the continued development of our team. As much as SVG speaks his mind on issues that don't have a thing to do with him running this team, he's baffled with the effect his decision to suddenly start Reggie, because he announced he was ready to play. I can't really be mad at SVG because there are so many opinionated fans who're lined up with him against Ish Smith. No Ish isn't half the player Reggie is but, he had the TEAM playing +.500 ball, with interest and energy, while Reggie has the TEAM playing .333 ball with his ball hogging style and it's boring to watch! He ain't half the player Kobe was or Westbrook is either, so this ain't about how good Reggie is compared to Ish but, what type of PG this TEAM needs to go.

Side bar: What the hell was Stanley Johnson in SVG's doghouse for again? From doghouse to entering the conversation for  starting SF? How much did SVG endear himself with the team by knocking their Player Only Meeting?

BallinD, KaySlay, I'm glad that you guys are here posting, what IMHO, perfect sense...not because it's the way I see things but, members of the national media as well. I'll stand aside from you guys when it comes to promoting Ish and Beno as our PG's for the remainder of this season because I don't want any of your astute observations discredited because of my feelings but, keep bringing it. Think on this, what can we harvest in the way of a legit starting PG for Reggie, Morris, and Baynes in a three-way trade? I'm not seeing doom & gloom because we may get to see more of Johnson, Ellenson, and Gbinije developing as Pistons; maybe we have an unexpected 1st round pick out of the trade...maybe we have enough money to resign KCP. Maybe there's light at the end of this darkness SVG has led us into.
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KaySlay and Oracle

Post  BallinD on Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:00 pm

So many issues and so little time.

We got punked.  57 Points in the paint is on the PG and the Center, to a large degree.  Again, I ask.  How do we move forward when our PG and Center are arguably the worst defenders on the team.

Morris: "They were the tougher team," Morris said. "They came in here and played tough. I felt like we was out-toughed tonight. Andre, where the F#ck are you???

I would like to see Nerlens Noel (defense, toughness) and Stauskas (shooting) plus Covington (shooting) Bayless (money filler) for Reggie and change. We may have to get a third team in there to make the numbers work.  Roll with Ish and Beno at PG until we can find or draft one. We aren't winning anything this year anyway. Get rid of the talented cancer.  I have seen enough.  The eye test does not lie.  Reggie is a me-first fool of the first degree. Maybe he can get us a first round pick?

I'm entertaining all offers for Andre as well.  Did anybody even notice him on the floor last night. (he refused Rick Barry's help on FT's and SVG let him go with goggles SMH.  facepalm

I've been critical of SJ, but he does play D pretty well, so at this point I would not want to prematurely toss him aside.
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BallinD

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