Re: FORUM

[lemonpen]

Swing for the fences Stan.

Now that you have come to understand a need for real change, get to work and bring home a STUD.  We don't need more role players, we have plenty.  We need an Alpha Male.  Someone with enough game to outclass all comers and enough swagger to uplift the confidence of his teammates in any situation.    We need a guy who makes his teammates believe they are better than they really are.

Bring home the Uni-Brow.  
Or, and I can't believe I'm typing this, go get Cousins.

Okay I'm woke now just passed out because I couldn't believe lemon said this

Is there really a possibility that we could get either.  Not that I care but I don't see how we do either without give up Andre in the process.  Not saying it's not possible just hard to see.  Just saying because most of you are Andre fans me on the other hand I haven't been a big fan of his.   I do know this if we put either Brow or Cuz next to him they would push him.  

Brow or Cousins  4. Reggie and Dre.  It would be worth any short-term step back.

[Oracle]

I'm glad we won, but we didn't deserve it the way we damn near choked this one away, and Reggie was at the heart of the crap, wasting possessions, but we got lucky.

I damn near lost control of my bowels... ok, too much information, but you get my drift(hope you didn't  )

Don, you mentioned that Wall dominates our guys, which is true, but you say it like he doesn't do that to damn near everybody else! You may have missed it, but the dude can play!

But you're right on about Drummond. I have advocated that he play Boban against certain teams, the Wizards being one where he matches up better than Andre, who was a total slug tonight!

There's no shame in having a bad matchup, just play chess SVG, not chump games. limit Andre's minutes and play the right matchups!

But a win is a win, and we needed this one BAD!!!

[Sparma]

SVG's denial wasn't exactly unequivocal.  He begins by saying that discussions probably did take place, then backs away saying he doesn't know.  Also, he's overly specific in texting Reggie, saying he won't be traded for Rubio (btw, does even this denial leave a package deal as possible?), but he evidently doesn't address the larger possibility with Reggie at all (although with the press he brings up that anything's possible).  He denied anything was being considered, but stipulates that what he means by consideration, that it involves him being brought in during the later stages of trades, rather than that no discussions took place, which were in fact probable.

Ugh.  I've seen SVG praised for his bluntness.  Having watched his 6 min interview, I see a combination of straightforwardness along with the capacity of the English major he was to leave much unanswered while appearing to be straightforward, partly by being so precise.  For instance, I would have thought that if something's being "discussed" it's being "considered" (otherwise it's mindless drivel); for SVG, discussions guided by Bower occur all the time, without SVG being directly informed; some of these discussions become more serious when they're genuine possibilities; some of these (only then!!?) become "considered" when presented to SVG.  Presumably the presentation to Gores constitutes yet another level of seriousness.  Ironically, it's these fine distinctions which facilitate possibilities for evasiveness with the press, all the while combined with an appearance of bluntness.  
btw, trading for Cousins seems quite possible.  I think Sac would go for a trade for Drummond.  That'd be a real talent upgrade for us, but there's a reason (or many, realy) for Sac to bite on that deal.  Forget about the Brow though.  No way.

Swing for the fences Stan.

Now that you have come to understand a need for real change, get to work and bring home a STUD.  We don't need more role players, we have plenty.  We need an Alpha Male.  Someone with enough game to outclass all comers and enough swagger to uplift the confidence of his teammates in any situation.    We need a guy who makes his teammates believe they are better than they really are.

Bring home the Uni-Brow.  
Or, and I can't believe I'm typing this, go get Cousins.

Okay I'm woke now just passed out because I couldn't believe lemon said this

Is there really a possibility that we could get either.  Not that I care but I don't see how we do either without give up Andre in the process.  Not saying it's not possible just hard to see.  Just saying because most of you are Andre fans me on the other hand I haven't been a big fan of his.   I do know this if we put either Brow or Cuz next to him they would push him.  

[WTF]

Swing for the fences Stan.

Now that you have come to understand a need for real change, get to work and bring home a STUD.  We don't need more role players, we have plenty.  We need an Alpha Male.  Someone with enough game to outclass all comers and enough swagger to uplift the confidence of his teammates in any situation.    We need a guy who makes his teammates believe they are better than they really are.

Bring home the Uni-Brow.  
Or, and I can't believe I'm typing this, go get Cousins.

Okay I'm woke now just passed out because I couldn't believe lemon said this

Is there really a possibility that we could get either. Not that I care but I don't see how we do either without give up Andre in the process. Not saying it's not possible just hard to see. Just saying because most of you are Andre fans me on the other hand I haven't been a big fan of his. I do know this if we put either Brow or Cuz next to him they would push him.

[lemonpen]

Swing for the fences Stan.

Now that you have come to understand a need for real change, get to work and bring home a STUD.  We don't need more role players, we have plenty.  We need an Alpha Male.  Someone with enough game to outclass all comers and enough swagger to uplift the confidence of his teammates in any situation.    We need a guy who makes his teammates believe they are better than they really are.

Bring home the Uni-Brow.  
Or, and I can't believe I'm typing this, go get Cousins.

[cool breeze]

How many times has John Wall made complete fools any Piston guard who attempts to guard him? The answer is every damn time they play when Wall is healthy. Wall has destroyed not only Reggie Jackson and Ish Smith but KCP as well. What will Stan Van Gundy do to limit the damage Wall causes this Piston team this time around???

While I am at it, Washington's center has always gotten the best of our franchise player Andre Drummond. Why does this always happen where the same opposing player gets superior position on both ends of the floor over Drummond? Of all players, why does Andre look so bad when playing against Gortat? One clue might be the fact that the entire Washington team knows that Andre Drummond never seems interested in screening out Gortat or anyone else for that matter. Somehow, the head coach for the Pistons cannot make any headway with Andre relating in getting him on board with learning the basic fundamentals of the game most players learn in Jr High.

Over the years I always get hopeful before the game starts that somehow something will change relating to how our guards defend Wall and how our starting center performs against a below average but fundamentally sound center. Will this Piston team get their asses kicked right out of the Palace again by Washington or will SVG come up with something new? Can Johnson and Bullock provide the spark on the defensive end that will influence the outcome of this game? Reggie has been improving especially in the first quarter of the last game. Reggie is in the spot light with all the trade rumors floating around. How will he react? What kind of character will he show Piston fans? Is he capable of playing smart defense? One thing is for certain, Ish Smith cannot guard any of Washington's guards and those same Wizard guards always get Smith going crazy and out of control on offense. I wouldn't want to be the Pistons coach in this game. SVG is responsible for selecting his guards. They have let him down in big games when playing against quality guards. How can he expect anything will change unless he makes some player changes if his guards show they don't belong on any quality NBA roster? Will we fans have moments of excitement or will this be another blowout in the first half in favor of Washington? The Piston players are well rested. They have no excuses. This could be a fantastic win for Detroit if they could pull it off. Go Pistons!

[BallinD]

There's obviously more to this than we hear. I

But most importantly it means Reggie is being shopped as rumored. Super positive development and a wake up call to the whole team, especially the PG

How much passive-aggressive pouting will he do now,or will he man up?
One question is are there any character, leadership qualities in that PG, especially facing John Wall tonite ,who hates him?

No trade idea should be taken in a vaccum because we could take Shabazz 41% from three this year or a pick, and flip it to get a third team in there, lottsa possibilities.

Rubio plays better D and would be Ish 2.0 Plus, thus freeing the other players and intensifying the ball movement and defense, ala Ish. Could potentially improve chemistry, especially since all the players know what RJax is, just as all OKC players do.

Could we get a pick out of this deal, we need to start stockpiling some assets and this could be a start? Addition by subtraction cause this is playing the long pawn and the game of building a championship team is only in the first quarter.

[Oracle]

You guys, have convinced me, especially DX when he mentioned that Ish didn't score worth a dime and that Rubio is a better defender, I got sold!

What wasn't mentioned was that Rubio is an even better distributor than Ish, slightly more creative in that area.

After thinking more about this, I disagree with the talking heads that this is a bad trade for both clubs. IMO, Reggie would do well in the west where they like scoring more, and he just might fit in well with a better center, who can do everything Drummond can, but also hit FT's and drain 3's!

Stan, put down the Reggie pipe and make this deal NOW!!!

[WTF]

Like I said I would said I would trade Reggie for any pass first minded PG. I'm wouldn't worry about Rubio scoring much because those points would likely be made up elsewhere.

Still we need a strong leader on this team that's getting these players faces, when they're not pushing it to their limits and beyond every single game.

While I'm not sold on Ish as a long term solution the team did perform better with him starting. I don't think we need to drag this thing out with Reggie even at the risk of this might being a bad trade. We can always hit the reset button at that PG position.

[deusXango]

Ish Smith proved that this team functions much, much, better with a legit PG running the offense; he can't shoot worth a damn either, is smaller than Rubio, and plays nowhere near the defense Rubio does. If the TEAM plays +.500 ball with Smith running the show, what'll it do with Rubio? Reggie Jackson is a combo guard whos offensive game is in constant flux, and he doesn't score enough to warrant watering down the other starters production on the offensive end, plus he plays sh!t defense. This TEAM needs a true PG and Rubio, Smith, and Beno are true PG's. I'd do the deal.

*Shabazz Muhammad is the fly in the butter!! What is the future of Stanley Johnson, as a Piston, if that clown is brought in? We need to protect Stanley for the duration of his rookie contract. No one wants Muhammad, and I really believe, outside of Detroit, Reggie is not that highly thought of...if he is, cash in on him now and let Smith, and Beno play out the season.

*The only way I'd take on Muhammad is if the Timberwolves 2017, unprotected, 1st round draft pick was sent to us also!!

[Phil-Good]

Do it.. DO IT..DO IT... Do.. IT DO IT DO IT!!!

Get from under this Reggie Jackson guy before it's too late.

[Oracle]

I totally agree, there's no way Thibs could live with Reggie's defense, but, he wouldn't be too far off from being ball dominant like Rose was!

Still, I agree that a 3rd team would make more sense, but I'm not too sold on Rubio, I'd want him to shoot a bit better. Shockingly he makes up for it by getting to the line damn near 50%, more than double Reggie's... how???

[Sparma]

It's interesting that in the comments section of the article you cite a couple people berate the TWolves should they make the trade, while another person can't believe the Pistons would do.  I think that such sharply divided opinions as to who would get the better of the deal suggests it might be a balanced, realistic, trade possibility.  Minny's motivated to get rid of Rubio, for sure, with Dunn emerging; I have trouble believing they'd want Jackson though.  Not a Thibs kind of player with his defensive mentality that Lemonpen described so eloquently recently (saving energy on the defensive end, so that he can be ball and shot dominant on the offensive end). I think there'd need to be a 3rd team.

[Oracle]

I don't get a statement cited at freep: "On Wednesday, ESPN's Zach Lowe mentioned Jackson in a feature on the New Orleans Pelicans, writing: "Let's just say there is a disagreement between the Pistons and every team they've talked to about the level of Jackson's availability.""

Does that mean that the Pistons are asked too much so that other teams don't see him as truly available?

I'm intrigued by the Jackson-Rubio rumor, particularly if it's part of a larger, multiplayer, deal.   It would need to be a 3 teamer, I think, with Minnesota having a young PG in waiting.  Also, Rubio's non-shooting could be a terrible fit in Detroit given SVG's offensive design.

Still, I like the idea if only because I think it's Reggie more than anyone else setting the low ceiling for the Pistons.  Significant restructuring would require getting rid of him (or AD, which is unlikely to happen).

Exactly what I think, and that's the conclusion of Raja Bell in that video.

[Oracle]

Listen to RIP & Raja discuss the issue with Reggie... very illuminating as many here have noted!

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-wolves-pistons-discussing-ricky-rubio-for-reggie-jackson-trade/

[Sparma]

I don't get a statement cited at freep: "On Wednesday, ESPN's Zach Lowe mentioned Jackson in a feature on the New Orleans Pelicans, writing: "Let's just say there is a disagreement between the Pistons and every team they've talked to about the level of Jackson's availability.""

Does that mean that the Pistons are asking too much so that other teams don't see him as truly available? Or maybe that other teams see Reggie as eminently available, even though the Pistons claim/ pretend that he isn't?

I'm intrigued by the Jackson-Rubio rumor, particularly if it's part of a larger, multiplayer, deal.   It would need to be a 3 teamer, I think, with Minnesota having a young PG in waiting.  Also, Rubio's non-shooting could be a terrible fit in Detroit given SVG's offensive design.

Still, I like the idea if only because I think it's Reggie more than anyone else setting the low ceiling for the Pistons.  Significant roster restructuring would require getting rid of him (or AD, which is unlikely to happen). Rubio could be a good transitional guy (2 years left after this), a great passer and much more committed to D than Jackson.

[Oracle]

BREAKING: The Secret Service has shot and killed another time traveler, bringing today’s total to 873. #InaugurationDay

[WTF]

I want to see a streak of these type of wins. Honestly just hard to say if it was us or just them having one of those games and them being due to lose one.

I had to laugh when I saw that, because you know it isn't true.

It happened with Jennings, we ran off an amazing streak, but you didn't believe it.

It happened with Ish, we again ran off another amazing streak, but you didn't believe it.

But now, through some magic, if they run off a streak now, you'll believe it???

I'll believe that when I see it

Yep I sure will Oracle how any sustained win streaks have we seen this season. I'm not talking about of the 3-4 game variety either. Let not forget the team is under .500 so they have had likely more streaks in the opposite direction. Now they have some games coming up where they can run off 7-8 wins and perhaps find themselves solidify as 4th or 5th seed considering all goes wrong elsewhere meaning other teams start sliding. .

[Oracle]

I want to see a streak of these type of wins. Honestly just hard to say if it was us or just them having one of those games and them being due to lose one.

I had to laugh when I saw that, because you know it isn't true.

It happened with Jennings, we ran off an amazing streak, but you didn't believe it.

It happened with Ish, we again ran off another amazing streak, but you didn't believe it.

But now, through some magic, if they run off a streak now, you'll believe it???

I'll believe that when I see it

[WTF]

Yeah wouldn't be nice too see Andre go pick a fight with Cousins, Whiteside, Howard and a few others. Talk a little smack on and off the court and then go back it up on the court. I can go back and think about all the little wars that went on not just at Andre's position but all of them. Zeke and Magic is a perfect example:

Yeah the NBA heads soften up the league but this stuff is ridiculous

I love Lebron's game but I'm not all that sure if he would have been tough enough mentally to play the 80's game he certainly have the talent but I honestly can see Rodman taking his candy on a regular.

I'm curious to know just how the Top 10 of each NBA draft of the 80's and 90's matches up with the last 10 years of this generation. How many stars (Super or All) were produced from each era. Especially the amount of time it took them to get there. I ask that because I really don't recall many of them not having immediate success once getting to the pro's. Nowadays every players a project or we're waiting 4-5 seasons hoping they reach their potential.

Let Me Put On My Researcher Cap and see what I can come up with.

[BallinD]

Great Post WTF

I'll always go back to when KCP first got here and in his presser he said in so many words that his dream began and ended in just being able to put on a uniform.   We never here these players talk about winning Championships because they live from game to game and have no long term vision.  Imagine how sweet it would have sounded when Andre signed his deal to hear him say he's his signature comes with a championship.
WTF, I hear you.  I watched an interview with Andre when we drafted him and he talked about how he was a late bloomer to basketball and never expected to be an NBA player when he was playing high school ball because he was just big and clumsy.  He said to him it was a miracle to just be in the NBA His college year was underwhelming, so here we are.  Possibly at best, a very late bloomer, IMHO

Most Baby-boomers likely feel the same as I do excepts those still trying to hold on to their youth knows this game sucks. There are some that excepts it as being it is what it is.  How we go from Zeke's and Grant comments to that of KCP's speak volumes about today's generation of players.  
IMO, there's a lot of talent, but the heart and competitiveness is lacking the 80s fire. Friendships were challenged and even lost (Zeke n Magic), but now as you say it is almost like a circus. All the threes and Dunks.
Man when Zeke said he was bringing us a title we all believed it, now all we get is fans  and media making excuses for the **** we get from players.  Effort was never an issues in the 80's hell not even in the 90's and 2004 showed us what effort can do.     I hope Andre see know that you just can't get by on talent to be an All Star and Super Star you need to be a freaking winner and to be a winner takes effort and hard work, and not excuses.   Just because the fan base praise your sorry ass doesn't mean the rest of the league fans will.   

[WTF]

No surprise, no Pistons on the all start team; none deserve it and I hope this will light a fire under Dre who has languished amid all the turmoil, turning it on and leaving it off when it suits him.  Hopefully he will learn that he has to keep the pedal to the metal as much as possible.

This no superstar in Detroit thing is getting a bit old though.  None on the horizon, unless we can steal a pick or SVBower can rob somebody, extremely unlikely.

That being said, it should be an exciting finish to the year as we have already entered the stretch run.

BallinD, there is so much fuel the Palace should have hazard signs all over it. Sure the motivation of every player should be in simply wanting to be the best. Hard to do when you;re prematurely award big contracts or tag franchise players, and reading hyperbole press clippings.

How about just wanting to win and become a Champion isn't that the ultimate goal? That should collectively fuel the entire team, from player, coach management and ownership. It's tons of fuel for them!!!!! Sadly they don't give a **** because they really don't respect the game anymore.

I'll always go back to when KCP first got here and in his presser he said in so many words that his dream began and ended in just being able to put on a uniform. We never here these players talk about winning Championships because they live from game to game and have no long term vision. Imagine how sweet it would have sounded when Andre signed his deal to hear him say he's his signature comes with a championship.

Lets think back on the handful of Superstars we did have one that delivered a championship and one that didn't. Zekes goal from the moment he got here was to lead this team, this city a championship and he did. Though Grant Hill never got one he certainly wasn't here thinking any less than Zeke.

Okay I'm writing more than I originally planned to but this is why I'm so freaking hard on this team, these players and the NBA as a whole. It's not that I'm Old School, its not that I think the 80's was the best (It Was) it's because something was loss along the way. As coolbreeze would say it, we went from a sport to a circus act I guess good thing since them real circus is closing in a few months.

Most Baby-boomers likely feel the same as I do excepts those still trying to hold on to their youth knows this game sucks. There are some that excepts it as being it is what it is. How we go from Zeke's and Grant comments to that of KCP's speak volumes about today's generation of players. Man when Zeke said he was bringing us a title we all believed it, now all we get is fans and media making excuses for the **** we get from players. Effort was never an issues in the 80's hell not even in the 90's and 2004 showed us what effort can do. I hope Andre see know that you just can't get by on talent to be an All Star and Super Star you need to be a freaking winner and to be a winner takes effort and hard work, and not excuses. Just because the fan base praise your sorry ass doesn't mean the rest of the league fans will. Just know this big man Ewing wanted to be better than Akeem, Akeem wanted to be better Kareem, Kareem wanted be better than Russell, Shaq wanted to be better than all of them. You like some of your other team mates are just happy putting on the uniform and not putting the work.

OKAY I'm done.......

[BallinD]

No surprise, no Pistons on the all start team; none deserve it and I hope this will light a fire under Dre who has languished amid all the turmoil, turning it on and leaving it off when it suits him. Hopefully he will learn that he has to keep the pedal to the metal as much as possible.

This no superstar in Detroit thing is getting a bit old though. None on the horizon, unless we can steal a pick or SVBower can rob somebody, extremely unlikely.

That being said, it should be an exciting finish to the year as we have already entered the stretch run.

[WTF]

I want to see a streak of these type of wins. Honestly just hard to say if it was us or just them having one of those games and them being due to lose one.

It was entertaining nonetheless but that doesn't mean we don't need a great amount change and serious upgrading on this roster.

[Oracle]

@Phillip: If Reggie can keep doing what he did most of last night, I'd consider letting him play out his contract until we found a better option, then if he came off the bench, I would be good with that.

But he does have issues that, IMO, will get a lot worse with age, and that you can't have in a championship guard! If he was a better person, I might look past some of it, but he really isn't.

Atlanta Game: This game was HUGE if it finally gets Reggie on the same page as the rest of the team. In sports, EVERYTHING is contagious! Bad play, good play, losing, winning, hot shooting, poor shooting... just about everything.

If we start moving the ball, finding the open man, making cuts and getting in position to back door, everybody wants in on the action, and you get a very active team.

That was the ultimate Ish effect, and if Reggie can follow suit, we're going to win a lot more games!

BTW, the big thing to me wasn't the fact that they built up a big lead, it was that they kept it big! Mentally that's hard to do for a team that's showed no killer instinct, but they did last night. I hope that continues, when you get them down, keep them down!

I can't speak for anybody else on this forum but I'm so over Reggie Jackson.

Reggie has some serious red flags concerning his health. His asthma, his constant dehydration issues, his knee and finger issues. The fact that Jackson decided to address his knee issue during the season instead of in the summer when he and Paul George were on vacation.

I understand Van Gundy wanting to stick with this group but don't hang on to Jackson too long.

The key is for Stan to ride Reggie for A short period of time while scowling the F.U.C.K.I.N.G universe for his replacement.

That's my advice....

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