PISTON FANS WHO ATTENDED THE GAME AGAINST THE KINGS SHOULD DEMAND PISTON MANAGEMENT GIVE THEM THEIR MONEY BACK

[cool breeze]

I love reading all the possibilities forum writers come up with relating to potential trades. We Piston fans are forced to live in a fantasy type of world when we think of our Pistons because it is so difficult to watch our team actually play the games. It is not about winning and losing for me. I just like watching the team I follow play smart basketball. So on a lark, I decided to watch a few Phoenix Suns games lately. Bledsoe drops 40 points against one of the best Eastern Conference teams Toronto on Sunday. Bledsoe also had 13 assists and was 11 for 17 including 4 of 7 from the 3 point line. This was a road game for the Suns who also beat New York the game before also on the road. The Suns completed a season sweep of the Raptors and improved Phoenix to 11-6 against Eastern Conference teams. Meanwhile Phoenix has a current record of 15-29 and are resting in next to last place just in front of the Lakers. Both the Suns and the Lakers have at least one player who shines and has top tier potential. Yet they are positioned to secure a really good player in a very rich draft coming this summer.

So with the above said, how can we rate this Piston management team compared to the Lakers and the Suns or for that matter most other NBA teams? I really thought that when Stan Van Gundy was hired he would have a long range plan of success for this Piston organization. Now I have real doubts that there is any long range strategy even being discussed by this management team. I think Stan Van Gundy is only planning on being associated with the Pistons on a short term basis. Granted Joe Dumars left this team in a horrible position for any new leader. We have no real prize players to trade or rely on to build a future team. It has all been smoke and mirrors since Van Gundy arrived. He is not a guy who is willing to go through horrible times by playing rookies or 2nd year players. He is not willing to suffer through a year where his team has one of the worst records while developing young talent. He is willing to settle for building a team capable of securing an 8th seed in the Eastern Conference. The organization needs to hire a coach and GM willing to take the heat and get bad enough to finally land a top tier talent and that means you need to get in position to have high odds to get one of the top two picks in the draft. That is how Piston management got Zeke. Then everything changed for Piston fans. Even when Detroit was losing as Zeke made his mistakes as a rookie, we all knew that the good times would be coming soon. Teams with smart management like the Suns and Lakers know when to fold the cards and do everything they can to get to the top of the heap. Our owner is being swindled by Stan Van Gundy.

While our Piston team has 5 more wins than the Suns right now, who is the better team? My best guess is that the Suns would be in 2nd place in the Eastern Conference right now if they switch conferences with the Pistons. The response by Piston management to this thought would be that Stan Van Gundy is building a young team. He has Andre Drummond the franchise player to build his team around. The problem with that is the fact that Andre Drummond has never been a coachable player. He has way too many flaws including having a low learning curve and motivation issues. Who can build a team around a player who just blends in during games because he cannot summon a consistent effort for an entire game? And now the team is about to give their young 2 guard a max contract when that players has never shown he is a go to type player that plays smart on either end of the floor when it counts. When Zeke was coming up for his new contract after completing his rookie contract, was there any doubt about his value? We fans have a lot of doubts about most of Stan Van Gundy's players when thinking long term after Cleveland grows old and younger teams start fighting it out for the top spot. Will that team by Philly or another team where management decides to go through tough times to get the best players? Tom Gores has fools gold. Does he know it? You can most likely forget about securing talent that could make a difference without adding a top tier rookie from the draft because just like the Greg Monroe situation, no team is lining up to make a deal involving any of our current starters.

One positive that I see is the play of Reggie Jackson. He cannot do it all by himself but slowly this guy is playing better defense and his shot selection is much better. But the offensive movement of his teammates, lack of any attempt to set screens or get the ball inside-outside or side to side is just not there. Kick the money back to all fans to showed up for this last game please.

[cool breeze]

He probably shouldn't have started either Leuer or KCP.

Why have Boban if you don't use him against the HUGE Kings?

Keep Drummond at center, but let Boban guard Cousins without following him out to 3 point land too much.

Our guard play just plain sucks.

What happened to Bullocks movement?

KCP can't hit a lick... why is he playing so many minutes, does SVG have a death wish?

Basketball is a game of matchups and if you don't adjust for the matchups, you lessen you chance of winning!

Oracle you have identified the real problem with this team. Stan Van Gundy is the problem. He didn't get his players ready to play a scrub team that everyone has been beating recently with the loss of Gay. The following are my reasons why SVG gets the game ball for the person most responsible for this loss.

1. Ty Lawson scored 16 points against Ish Smith in this game. He scored 12 points in the first half and completely dominated Smith on both ends of the floor. Was there any Piston fan who didn't identify that fact? Stan Van Gundy didn't identify that fact. Smith should have taken a seat on the bench after Lawson scored on him twice while Smith was dribbling around on offense completely out of control and not even thinking about running the half court offense. In Stan Van Gundy's eyes Ish Smith can do no wrong. He is not accountable like many of Stan's pets.

2. Oracle you identified this insane idea of playing Pope all of those meaningless minutes in this game. Pope gambled all night long on defense. He gave up baseline twice in a short time period. Pope insisted on shooting the long ball right from the get go in the first quarter and missing 4 out of 4 shots. That is hard for any team to recover from. I read that Tom Gores is in love with Pope and thinks he is worth $20 million a year. Please Tom why don't you go back and look at the game film of all those blow out loses the Piston suffered in December and early January. Did Pope keep the Pistons in the game then? Why was it that our Pistons gave up over 30 points or more in the first quarter with those same starters that played last night of all of those blow out games? This game should have been a blowout as well but the Kings are a horrible basketball team.

3. Andre Drummond once again came to the Palace without his game face on. He was a complete slug in the first half of that game. Andre was too tired to bend his legs most of the night. What is he doing between games that gets him so worn out? No Boban as Oracle pointed out when both Drummond and Baynes managed to get themselves in foul trouble. Instead, Van Gundy goes to Leuer who got his ass handed to him. Leuer started out really hot making his first 4 or 5 shots from distance. But did anyone think this would last? In the entire 2nd half until the last 3 minutes how many times did the ball ever reach the painted area with our skill players even attempting to break down the defense? The only guy who got into the paint was Smith who of course was almost always out of control. This team is back to playing street basketball not organized basketball. It is hard to watch win or lose. Who can we blame but the head coach who admires this kind of low IQ style of play.

4. Coach Stan Van Gundy must have been sleeping during the long period when all of us fans were scratching our heads during the long period where our Piston team just couldn't compete with any NBA team during December and early January. The blowouts started in the first quarter of every game. So what happened in this game Stan? Were you watching? Lackluster defensive effort by Stan's starters and mindless offensive one on one play by Stan's starters seemed to have no effect on Stan. He was pretty calm on the bench because his guy Leuer had been hitting the 3 point shot early in the first quarter. This to Stan was great and validated his decision to start Leuer instead of Harris. Everything else for Stan was a blur. He was a happy man because his dysfunctional offense was working when Leuer hit those shots. It didn't matter that the starting group looked as if they had never played together in their entire lives. There was no single player in that starting unit that looked like they were sacrificing and playing unselfishly for the good of the team. Stan knows how to pick his key players. For me, I had a really hard time watching our team starting from the first two minutes of the game right up to the end.

5. Only one player on the team seems to be under the watchful eye of the head coach. That guy is Stanley Johnson. Johnson has not missed a shot in two games. He played a really good first half in the Washington game and then sat the bench for most of the 2nd half. In this game, he only touched the basketball on offense one time and he scored on that one possession with a drive and bank shot. Ish Smith never passed Johnson the basketball but Smith seldom passed the ball to any of this teammates in the first half. For some unknown reason, Johnson played only briefly in the first half and never appeared again. In all of the games during this winning streak, Johnson was one of the players who provided a big spark on the defensive end and he was the guy who could break down a defense and make a good pass to open teammates. He was the guy who banged opposing players while playing defense on the weak side to prevent 2nd chance opportunities. Johnson has a high basketball IQ. He doesn't enjoy playing mindless street style baseball. He has never played that type of basketball in an organized setting in his entire life. He has always been on the winning team when playing organized structured basketball. Maybe that is where the problem lies with Stanley Johnson. He doesn't fit in with Stan Van Gundy's mindless offensive system or the type of players Stan Van Gundy adores. the glaring missing link in this game and in the 2nd half of the game with Washington was the fact that Stan Johnson was not playing. He was sitting the bench watching Ish Smith and KCP play street basketball.

The chemistry of this team sure looked better with a starting group of Bullock, Harris, Morris, Drummond and Jackson. Bullock was still getting his legs and in game shape before the return of Pope. The coach could start Johnson instead of Bullock as well and this team could be a much better defensive unit. Stan Van Gundy can't be this stupid. He must be up to something. Will Van Gundy actually give away Stanley Johnson in a trade for a 2nd rate player? Will he blame Stanley for this loss? He can't be critical to the media relating to his big off season free agent signing of Ish Smith. Stan must hope nobody knows anything about basketball. The owner says Stan works harder than anyone he knows. Really can that be true? This starting unit and the 2nd unit with Ish Smith is the worst damn team in the league by far. Even the Lakers have a lot more promise in the long run. And of course our Piston management is playing for the 8th spot in the playoffs instead of recognizing that we really don't have any star caliber players. The only way our Pistons will ever be a real success is to lose big and secure a top 3 draft pick. shuffle all the reject players from other teams in and out over the next 3 years and this franchise will look the same as last night. Our Pistons lost to the Kings and that says it all Piston fans. It is time for Stan Van Gundy to retire from coaching. Or for the owner to replace him in all positions he currently holds. Get a new management team in place to take a fresh look at the players Stan Van Gundy currently places his trust in. Nobody he trusts including Pope can play consistent above average defense. Last night Pope was way below average and any reporter who falls for this false narrative by Stan Van Gundy on Popes defensive ability is pretty stupid. Pope is a gambler on defense. The proof is in the game film. Any NBA player who gives up baseline more than once in an NBA game would be on the bench if he played in a Spurs uniform. For Van Gundy, if you are on his good side, than you are protected. How many fans really believe that we are watching a team with a lot of promise? The key players Stan Van Gundy has settled on are not self starters. They cannot be trusted to be prepared to play each and every basketball game. Our players are mentally challenged. The coach does not hold them accountable. He protects his chosen children at all cost.

Yesterday there was a discussion relating to making a trade with the Kings for Cousins. Now does everyone see why that would not work? Nobody in their right mind would give away Cousins for Drummond. Drummond is a work in progress type of player who's effectiveness varies from game to game. He is fundamentally unsound as a basketball player. Cousins has real smarts and skill and is fundamentally sound. In fact would the Kings pay Pope $20 million dollars a year either? What other team would pay Pope $20 million a year based on his play as a Piston? He played on a losing team in college. And he has played for a losing team as a pro. Is Pope a difference maker? I watch several college basketball players this season who I think will end up being a lot better than Pope. Pope is average at best but all the hype reminds of of the nonsense that was floating around when Greg Monroe played for Detroit. Replace Pope with Bullock and trade Pope for a high draft pick if you can? My bet is that Piston management could not get a high draft pick for Pope before the trade deadline.

[WTF]

Dre Day: Really sad that Sactown recognized that huge hole in the middle of the defense/Franchise Player took advantage and won the game. As usual Franchise sits pouting and looking confused. Stein and Cousins had their way with him.

Morris, Harris and Leuer: are only the players I would hesitate parting with everybody else needs to be traded. These 3 are the only ones IMO that really play with a purpose and real effort, I don't think I ever seen these guys taking days off or slacking. They're borderline starters/role players who deserve better team mates at both the PG and Center positions.

Streak: 3 games RIGHT!

Coaching: As usual SVG gets comfortable and don't know how to make adjustments. It look like the Pistons were on their way to an easy win and then Sactown began exploiting the middle and he had no answer for it. He panics and the team follow suits.....

[BallinD]

Dre just met Cousins in a dark alley and got his lunch money stolen along with his girlfriend and he just dropped his head and ran.

Can we please dump him, how about a two-fer. Dre and SVG for Somebody Anybody.

Wow

[Oracle]

Drummond is playing like a PU$$Y!

Anybody can go right at him and score, other bigs have ZERO respect for him, and I CRINGE whenever he goes to the FT line!

Max player my ass!!!

IMO, everybody on this team would play better and harder if their big man was more of a force on either end. Right now he's just plain useless!

This team would be a whole lot better if Moose was the center, he actually plays better defense and a sh!t load better offense than Drummond!

[BallinD]

He probably shouldn't have started either Leuer or KCP.

KCP can't hit a lick... why is he playing so many minutes, does SVG have a death wish?

Andre played like he had the flu, very troubling.  Reggie jacked up any hopes of comeback (Again), Dribbling straight into traps and then trying to dribble out of them while the game is on the line, SMH Turnover!  

KCP was off, why not ease him in??? take him out when it's apparent he's off???

Another winnable game, coaching loss, Horrendous! end game strategy.

[Oracle]

He probably shouldn't have started either Leuer or KCP.

Why have Boban if you don't use him against the HUGE Kings?

Keep Drummond at center, but let Boban guard Cousins without following him out to 3 point land too much.

Our guard play just plain sucks.

What happened to Bullocks movement?

KCP can't hit a lick... why is he playing so many minutes, does SVG have a death wish?

Basketball is a game of matchups and if you don't adjust for the matchups, you lessen you chance of winning!

[lemonpen]

So then were just stuck and **** out of luck.  Then I guess we should just roll with every player we have?

I know this much were not going to get an All Star by doing nothing and we certainly can't land one by piecing together turds in a trade.   It won't hurt to make those offers any offers really.   I think there's a bad habit of over-valuing players that we don't move them and then under-valuing that same player if we offer them up in a trade,  Sactown could hold some unseen value in Andre that we don't know about for whatever reason Cousin always seem to be the subject of trade.   Hell maybe we can acquire him in a straight trade for Harris and a couple of picks, maybe a combination of Reggie and whatever we won't know unless we try. Anything possible

What I hope SVG isn't doing is sitting here passively waiting on offers when he need to be actively engaged in upgrading the team, this should be a constant thing.  

It wouldn't be the first time a Benz was traded for a Chevy and it worked out for both teams.  SVG was a dummy paying that contract IMO and I hope he's not sitting there stuck on stupidity and pride.  He needed to make that trade for Rubio, and he needs to think real hard on landing a beast like Cuz or the Brow.  IMO Cuz seems more likely than Brow.

It's the same thing with George he been the subject of trade talk since last season I don't think I've heard Indy deny it alright.  It's possible!

If were stuck then it's no point for us to hope, complain, dream or wish.

What on earth indicated that I believe we are stuck.
The following is the type of deal I think may do the job.

Offer the Lakers our most prized rookie + a 2nd round pick for their 1st round pick.
The LA pick goes to Sactown.
Dre goes to Sactown.
We get Cousins and a trash contract.

George and Cousins are still in place because too many teams want Benz's for Chevys.
The last 40 seasons have proved that we have no chance at a Ship without a real centerpiece player.

[WTF]

So then were just stuck and **** out of luck.  Then I guess we should just roll with every player we have?

I know this much were not going to get an All Star by doing nothing and we certainly can't land one by piecing together turds in a trade.   It won't hurt to make those offers any offers really.   I think there's a bad habit of over-valuing players that we don't move them and then under-valuing that same player if we offer them up in a trade,  Sactown could hold some unseen value in Andre that we don't know about for whatever reason Cousin always seem to be the subject of trade.   Hell maybe we can acquire him in a straight trade for Harris and a couple of picks, maybe a combination of Reggie and whatever we won't know unless we try. Anything possible

What I hope SVG isn't doing is sitting here passively waiting on offers when he need to be actively engaged in upgrading the team, this should be a constant thing.  

It wouldn't be the first time a Benz was traded for a Chevy and it worked out for both teams.  SVG was a dummy paying that contract IMO and I hope he's not sitting there stuck on stupidity and pride.  He needed to make that trade for Rubio, and he needs to think real hard on landing a beast like Cuz or the Brow.  IMO Cuz seems more likely than Brow.

It's the same thing with George he been the subject of trade talk since last season I don't think I've heard Indy deny it alright.  It's possible!

If were stuck then it's no point for us to hope, complain, dream or wish.

[lemonpen]

I don't know about that Lemon,  Cousin has 2 years left 17Mil and Andre is already lock in for 5 year at 22Mil very possible to swap Andre for Ben and Cuz IMO.   I think Sac is ready to reset....
So, you will give me your Mercedes and change for my Chevy, cause I over paid for my Chevy. I don't think so. Sac executives, as bad as they may be, know the same thing about Andre that we do.

George for Harris IMO this could work as well, in part because Indy is trying to move him and we're basically swapping out contracts both have 3 years remaining at 17 Mil each. It's possible. George been part of trade talk
See comments above.

This just leaves us with Reggie as a point of concern and this is where I would pull the trigger on a Rubio trade.  Just landing both George and Cousins project us 8 games better.  Maybe some form of packaging his ass gets us a star maybe another young up and coming center.  

Back to Burke,  This will always be my gut feeling about him that he will be perfect piece to run offense, if Ish can I'm sure Burke can do it better if given the opportunity.  He doesn't need to be the star just the floor leader.  

This also makes it possible to pay KCP if we choose to do so, and still have Morris under contract 2 more seasons.  I damn sure would rather be paying Cousin 17 mil now and paying 22 mil a season in 2 years oppose to giving the **** to Andre now.

I hope Sactown or the Pelicans are REALLY itchy to deal.

[WTF]

I don't know about that Lemon,  Cousin has 2 years left 17Mil and Andre is already lock in for 5 year at 22Mil very possible to swap Andre for Ben and Cuz IMO.   I think Sac is ready to reset....

George for Harris IMO this could work as well, in part because Indy is trying to move him and we're basically swapping out contracts both have 3 years remaining at 17 Mil each. It's possible. George been part of trade talk

This just leaves us with Reggie as a point of concern and this is where I would pull the trigger on a Rubio trade.  Just landing both George and Cousins project us 8 games better.  Maybe some form of packaging his ass gets us a star maybe another young up and coming center.  

Back to Burke,  This will always be my gut feeling about him that he will be perfect piece to run offense, if Ish can I'm sure Burke can do it better if given the opportunity.  He doesn't need to be the star just the floor leader.  

This also makes it possible to pay KCP if we choose to do so, and still have Morris under contract 2 more seasons.  I damn sure would rather be paying Cousin 17 mil now and paying 22 mil a season in 2 years oppose to giving the **** to Andre now.

[lemonpen]

With Rudy Gay out for the season could the Kings be eager for a reset. There a lot of games to go and the loss of a valuable (sic) cog might hurt attendance. Maybe SVG could fleece another desperate team.

[lemonpen]

Cool I don't think the majority of these players know how to properly prepare for games.  Not many of them came from traditionally big winning programs (I'm going to have to do some homework on this) but I don't think so.  

There's a reason why I'm always pulling for Trey Burke,  there's a reason why I pull for players who stay at the college level 2 years or more.  Nadre for all his talent still plays like he fresh out of H.S. and that we'll always be looking at him from the perspective potential.  I would be fine with this if SVG didn't tag him Franchise and given him a Max Contract

Trading KCP has always been something that should have been tabled, like I said it was always a fit issue here and will always be.  I would really like to see us trade KCP for Beal or Paul George if possible.   I would love to swap Cousins for Andre and then I would love to add Burke to our roster.

If you told me that I could go into next season with Burke, Beal, George, Leuer or Morris and Cousins then I tell you that we're 2nd in the conference.  I would gladly give up Jax, Andre, Harris and KCP and a pick to make this happen.  

Intangibles For:

Burke: Detroit would be ideal for Burke because it puts him back home to play in front of family and friends and I think he can recapture that swag he had playing at Michigan.  We saw him run that team and he looked nothing less than a pro already. He was big time, clutch and he ran that team almost to perfection. We don't need much out of Burke just get the ball to Beal, George and Cousins and be clutch, I honestly think Trey can get that 3 shot going again.  He certainly can run a offense.  

Cousins: Always wanted to be here in Detroit and Joe desperately tried to move up in the draft to make that happen.  I don't blame a player for losing interest if he's not supplied the talent around him to do so.  Plus his attitude reeks of Detroit DNA he's better than Andre across the board with maybe Andre being the better rebounder by no stretch of imagination do I think Andre is a better defender.  Like I said cousins is capable from the 3 pt line in.  

George: Would almost be like adding Sheed or Dice to the mix.  Even with that injury he's still able to create his own shot off the dribble. Since we are so into ISO both he and Beal would be idea at this. if we could get a good 2-3 years out of George this would be great.  

Beal: It's almost an even swap with him and KCP and just think Beal is the more aggressive player offensively.  I think both would benefit from the change of scenery.  

The beauty of this lineup is that every player is potentially a go to guy.  It's not a Big 3 but it's damn sure a Capable 5 IMO.   (Let me go play on the Trade Machine)

Why bother with Beal or Burke when they don't have the potential to change anything let alone the course of our future.
We don't have the assets to bring in George and Cousins. If we are serious about getting our hands on an All Star, or in the case of Davis a possible top 50 All Time talent the deal will require much more than matching salaries. On top of the salary match we will accept bad contracts in return, surrender unprotected draft picks, and hand over promising young talent. Big Guns don't come cheap because they alone hold the opportunity to grab the brass ring.

[WTF]

Nevermind on Beal

But here what did work: Harris to Indiana for George and Andre to Sac for Cousins and Ben McLemore Hollinger Analysis says this make us 8 wins better.

[WTF]

I'm picking Brady to win. I'm guessing but I think if he wins he'll retires afterwards. He already has the record for appearances win number 5 will give him the win record. Can't see that record being broken for a long time once he accomplishes it.

[WTF]

Cool I don't think the majority of these players know how to properly prepare for games. Not many of them came from traditionally big winning programs (I'm going to have to do some homework on this) but I don't think so.

There's a reason why I'm always pulling for Trey Burke, there's a reason why I pull for players who stay at the college level 2 years or more. Nadre for all his talent still plays like he fresh out of H.S. and that we'll always be looking at him from the perspective potential. I would be fine with this if SVG didn't tag him Franchise and given him a Max Contract

Trading KCP has always been something that should have been tabled, like I said it was always a fit issue here and will always be. I would really like to see us trade KCP for Beal or Paul George if possible. I would love to swap Cousins for Andre and then I would love to add Burke to our roster.

If you told me that I could go into next season with Burke, Beal, George, Leuer or Morris and Cousins then I tell you that we're 2nd in the conference. I would gladly give up Jax, Andre, Harris and KCP and a pick to make this happen.

Intangibles For:

Burke: Detroit would be ideal for Burke because it puts him back home to play in front of family and friends and I think he can recapture that swag he had playing at Michigan. We saw him run that team and he looked nothing less than a pro already. He was big time, clutch and he ran that team almost to perfection. We don't need much out of Burke just get the ball to Beal, George and Cousins and be clutch, I honestly think Trey can get that 3 shot going again. He certainly can run a offense.

Cousins: Always wanted to be here in Detroit and Joe desperately tried to move up in the draft to make that happen. I don't blame a player for losing interest if he's not supplied the talent around him to do so. Plus his attitude reeks of Detroit DNA he's better than Andre across the board with maybe Andre being the better rebounder by no stretch of imagination do I think Andre is a better defender. Like I said cousins is capable from the 3 pt line in.

George: Would almost be like adding Sheed or Dice to the mix. Even with that injury he's still able to create his own shot off the dribble. Since we are so into ISO both he and Beal would be idea at this. if we could get a good 2-3 years out of George this would be great.

Beal: It's almost an even swap with him and KCP and just think Beal is the more aggressive player offensively. I think both would benefit from the change of scenery.

The beauty of this lineup is that every player is potentially a go to guy. It's not a Big 3 but it's damn sure a Capable 5 IMO. (Let me go play on the Trade Machine)

[cool breeze]

I asked you this question once before. But where is all this information on Cousins being a bad team mate or team mates not liking him? I wish Andre acted half concerned as Cousins does about winning. I haven't seen anything with Cousins attitude that says he's a bad dude.

Real players, real leaders are not afraid to call out coaches, other players or the organization it plays for rather fans or media like it or not. WE have had players on our team that have done the exact things many call out cousins on. I don't want my franchise player sitting in some corner like a little biotch well his team mates, coach and organization under preform.

We seen some of the great do the same things Cousins has, (Magic, Zeke, MJ, Bird, Big Ben, Shaq, and Lebron) Hell every star player, franchise player and so on has called other players, coaches, and the organization at some point. Even lesser players have publicly called coaches remember Tayshaun Buffoonery Comments, Remember the Boycott. Do you remember one time Andre getting in a team mates face, or pisst off about a loss, getting mad at an official on bad call? No what we do see a lot of is his pouting, or looking stupid and lost when he blows an assignment, looking confused at the FT line.

I would rather see Cousins acting a fool after a **** call like last night, or being piss at a team mate then the dumb dumb we just gave 126 million dollars to.

Putting Cousins character aside he's better offensively and defensively than Andre. He's an offensive threat just about everywhere on the court and Andre isn't. I'll give Andre being a better re-bounder but that's it.

WTF my preference or wish list for a new Piston big man would of course be Anthony Davis. How could the Pistons go wrong even if we had to throw in another Piston starter and number one pick along with Drummond. But of course it is extremely doubtful that any GM would want to give up an NBA star like Davis for potential.

The next logical choice would be Cousins for Drummond. Both of these players have flaws. Cousins sometimes is not all in and doesn't provide the energy he is capable of providing his team. But you are right that Cousins is much more fundamentally sound and has a much higher basketball IQ. When he is interested in kicking ass and taking names he is hard to stop. Maybe the only reason why SVG would not explore a trade for Cousins might be that he thinks in the long run Andre Drummond might become a better defender and he likes this idea of Jackson and Drummond playing the pick and roll together.

You are correct in my opinion to explore the idea of trading Drummond. Andre Drummond for whatever reason is often unable to prepare mentally before games. Bill Russell was known for throwing up before every ball game he played as an NBA player. Bill was serious and prepared for every situation way before the game ever started. As I watch the nonsense before all Piston games with Drummond clowning around dancing and appearing to be trying to get pumped up, it is clear that he approaches games much differently than Bill R. Bill was worried he would come up against something that he couldn't handle so he worried a lot. But he was going through the fundamentals and how he would play against a specific opponent. How many times did some of us players who played high school and college lay in bed at night before games and worry that our shots would not fall or we would get beat on defense in front of our fans? Andre Drummond seems to lack this characteristic. He is smiling and laughing and seldom seems to have his game face on before a game. If he studies game film and watches a guy like Gortat make a fool out of him in previous games and really try to understand how that happened, then I would anticipate that he might be at least a bit worried because of the speed of the game, that he might make the same mental errors. If a player processes things mentally before the event happens you have a much better chance of having success in doing the right thing. I just can't see that Andre Drummond really takes the time to prepare himself like he should. Does he make the same mistakes over and over in practice? Does he even pay attention to what the coaches want him to do? Is Andre Drummond a coachable type player? I keep pulling for him to start acting like a professional player and do his mental work before games. But he has never learned how to make the most basic movement of looking back to see where his assigned man is located before an opponent launches a shot. He just stands under the basket and hopes the ball will magically come into his hands. He is not using God's gift of eyesight. He is playing blind on the defensive boards. If Andre just did this one basic thing, the Pistons would eliminate their worst weakness and that is giving up 2nd and 3rd chance opportunities. Knowing that nothing has changed with Andre's mental approach to being receptive to coaching or his mental preparation before games how can the head coach trust him? How can his teammates trust him? The reason SVG hangs on to Andre could be that his value is not as great as Detroit fans might think. Other GMs and coaches know how to attack the Pistons and they attack our point guards and Andre Drummond as the weak links. Would the Kings agree to a trade for their center for our center? What complicates things for SVG is when Andre shines on the court. Before this last game against Washington, Drummond showed his skills as a passer. I was really impressed on how he delivered the basketball to the cutters time after time. And at times Andre Drummond has shown that he can stop dribble penetration against the best point guards in the league. Then there is the other unknown at least for me. I have coached high school players and teams that played amazingly well in practice but just couldn't concentrate or got spooked when fans were watching them play. Is Andre one of those type of players? Does he make 8 out of 10 free throws with nobody watching? As a fan I am emotionally invested in Andre Drummond. I keep watching for signs that he is maturing and sometimes does show that he can be a lethal force on both offense and defense. So SVG must lose a lot of sleep over this man. He can't be used in crunch time in many games. He cannot be trusted in crutch time to make foul shots or for that matter make that off balance hook shot from the baseline. He shoots that shot with no fear and I think it is a very low percentage type of shot to attempt. And of course he makes way to many mistakes defensive rotations to be trusted. He is the franchise player and is too young mentally and too unskilled with the fundamentals to play the role of leader. So he will continue to get older and provide entertainment on the sidelines jumping around and dancing before the games it appears. But if he someday walks onto the court fully engaged and prepared after doing the hard work necessary to become a real basketball player, then all the wait will be worth it.

WTF I would not complain if Cousins was exchanged for Drummond. You are right that he is the superior player. But this team will need something more than Cousins. I would like SVG to explore any trade opportunities he can find for KCP. I can't see that he improves this Piston team much over players like Bullock or Johnson. Pope has been involved in most all of the down times when this team looked like they couldn't beat anyone. I see that Bullock is recognizing situations on the court better than KCP. Both Bullock and Johnson might have much higher basketball IQs than Pope. And of course can the team move forward in quality if they give a guy like Pope 20m/year? That is insane. I would be concentrating on moving Pope for a high draft pick. If any of you fans watched the Arizona-UCLA game last Saturday, you might agree that there were several players who played that game that would improve this Piston team. They are smarter, shoot the ball better, and above all play so much better on the defensive end. I am not impressed with Pope's defense most of the time. I am not saying he doesn't provide enough effort because he does. But whenever Pope plays against top guards like Wall, he gets beat much like the two point guards we have now. On that subject, hats off to Reggie Jackson on the last possession of Washington in this last game. Jackson did an outstanding job on Wall and kept his body in front of wall at all times preventing him from making a drive and forcing him into a contested long range jump shot that he missed. If Jackson could do that once he might decide playing quality defense is fun.

[WTF]

I asked you this question once before. But where is all this information on Cousins being a bad team mate or team mates not liking him? I wish Andre acted half concerned as Cousins does about winning. I haven't seen anything with Cousins attitude that says he's a bad dude.

Real players, real leaders are not afraid to call out coaches, other players or the organization it plays for rather fans or media like it or not. WE have had players on our team that have done the exact things many call out cousins on. I don't want my franchise player sitting in some corner like a little biotch well his team mates, coach and organization under preform.

We seen some of the great do the same things Cousins has, (Magic, Zeke, MJ, Bird, Big Ben, Shaq, and Lebron) Hell every star player, franchise player and so on has called other players, coaches, and the organization at some point. Even lesser players have publicly called coaches remember Tayshaun Buffoonery Comments, Remember the Boycott. Do you remember one time Andre getting in a team mates face, or pisst off about a loss, getting mad at an official on bad call? No what we do see a lot of is his pouting, or looking stupid and lost when he blows an assignment, looking confused at the FT line.

I would rather see Cousins acting a fool after a **** call like last night, or being piss at a team mate then the dumb dumb we just gave 126 million dollars to.

Putting Cousins character aside he's better offensively and defensively than Andre. He's an offensive threat just about everywhere on the court and Andre isn't. I'll give Andre being a better re-bounder but that's it.

[cool breeze]

Brow or Cousins  4. Reggie and Dre.  It would be worth any short-term step back.

I've been a huge NO to Cousins, but I'm so over Drummond and his no FT shooting arse!

Lemon, I actually believe that Uni could be had with the right package!

IMO, we wouldn't step back much, but by season end, we'd be one dangerous team with either of them.

For those who keep track of such things, what's the opinion? Would it be easier to get Cousins or Anthony Davis? Don't be scared, after a few years, you don't notice it that much

You brought up Anthony Davis again Oracle. In my opinion, Davis is one of 4 premier players in the entire NBA. If there was any chance of Detroit having the opportunity to bid on Davis for any combination of Piston players, SVG would be a complete fool not to do it. But why in hell would any GM give away such a player for any combination of our players? All GMs know about Andre Drummond's failure to have the ability to ever become a fundamentally sound player. Davis is fundamentally sound in every way and can also shoot the lights out against anyone. SVG would be selling potential in any trade involving Andre Drummond. After all this time in the league, GMs will be hesitant to give up an important player because of Andre's slow learning curve. SVG would have to settle for a mid level type player in my opinion. So I think the team is better off gambling that Andre Drummond will mature into a real defensive force in coming years. He is a good guy who appears to love playing the game. All he needs to do is work with a talented coach who knows defensive fundamentals. I am having some doubts about the quality of SVG's assistant coaches in general. Some fans want Cousins who also has great potential. The difference between Drummond and Cousins is the personality factor. Drummond has good character but is that true about Cousins? Do Cousin's current teammates like playing with him? How does he act off the court to build team unity? Cousins has fantastic talent but he seems to always play on losing teams. Maybe if he really does have it in his heart that he wants to be a Piston, then perhaps Cousins could be the player that would get this team over the hump. All I know is that Anthony Davis has no baggage or weak areas in his character or his game or work ethic.

Oracle you made a comment my pre game comments about Wall's domination of our Piston guards. You don't have to sell me that John Wall is a fantastic point guard. I think he is the best point guard in the league by a wide margin. I hate watching him pick our team apart so easily. I actually believe he had an off night in this last game. And hats off to the effort of both of our point guards. At least they tried harder than before. And Reggie and Ish both provided some really good offensive punch in this game as well. Now with some time off hopefully the Piston players will clean up some mistakes they made in this game on defense.

Gortat made a fool of Andre once again last night. Does Andre ever study game film? I have seen Andre spread his legs and show his quickness in stopping dribble penetration at times in previous game and proved that he can defend even quick point guards. There is no excuse for Andre getting his ass handed to him by Gortat every time they play against each other. Drummond has the ability to play fantastic defense. Last night he played like a lazy ass out of shape low basketball IQ player. There is no other way to say it. He was always late in everything he did on defense. How long does he want to be known as a low basketball IQ player? That must hurt when he hears that criticism. He has the ability to change that perception. But the EFFORT has to be there. Without the will, Andre Drummond will never be known as a smart basketball player that his teammates can trust. His attitude with free throw shooting provides more proof of his lack of mental toughness. Piston coaches need to become more truthful regarding how they handle Andre Drummond. If they want to tap into Andre's potential then they need to call him out, communicate exactly what they want from him on defense and demand that he make changes and become the defensive player this team needs.

[cool breeze]

This should have been a lot easier but Washington has been one of the hottest teams in the NBA lately. The officials were not giving our players any breaks and it seemed like The Wizard players got every call. But our Morris says he fouled his brother to get that tip in so if the officials were trying to fix the game, it didn't work. I sure didn't see the foul as it looked like Marcus simply out jumped his brother and his timing was perfect. I guess the bigger question on this play is why in hell would Marcus tell the world that he did commit a foul in that situation? Now the officials will never give him a break for the rest of the season.

This could have been a much easier win if the centers had communicated better with the guards on the high screen and roll plays. It seems like the bigs give no help at all with that basic play that Washington ran over and over throughout the game. While I was on optimistic that either Jackson or Smith could hold their own against the Wizard guards, I thought they both performed well on both ends. Our big men were a day late and a dollar short most of the time. I thought that Baynes had good position on two times where the officials failed to call the charge and instead got Baynes in foul trouble. I have one question for SVG. Why do you have your guards playing tight on Wall when he is 7 feet or more beyond the free throw line while standing in the center of the court. How easy is it for any player to drive around our guards when you put them in that position. And of all players, the coach has his point guard guarding Wall tight before he has used his dribble. That is plan stupid and allowed Wall to get around our guards very easily and get a full head of steam going into the paint. Of course Andre Drummond was AWOL for this entire game on defense so who wouldn't try to get into the paint against this Piston team?

Lauer played a horrible 2nd half of basketball until the middle of the 4th quarter when he blocked one of Wall's layup attempts. He then made a big shot close to the basket. But coming in during the 3rd quarter, Lauer failed to box out or fight hard for defensive rebounds especially early in the 3rd when he had his back to the basket during a shot attempt and the ball came down right next to him and into the hands of a Washington player giving that player an easy 2nd shot opportunity. That is what sparked the comeback by Washington. It only takes one lazy moment by one of your teammates to screw up the works.

Bullock had a much better game. For a guy still getting in game shape, I see some real quickness on his part when he attempts to get through screens on defense. And he moves quickly without the basketball and passes the basketball well. Is he a better fit than KCP for the offense this team plays than KCP? If so, what could SVG get in return for Pope in a trade? Of course Bullock's health is a concern. He has had more than his share of back issues this season. On the other hand, the Pistons could have used Pope against Wall in the 2nd half of this game. However, of all players, I have to give credit when credit is due to Ish Smith who played some tough defense against Wall at times. He was the only player who could stop Wall's dribble penetration. He didn't do it every time but had some success. Reggie Jackson also played better defense overall but missed some switches with Harris in the 2nd half allowing two wide open looks.

Overall I was worried about a Washington blowout and our team played tough for the entire game despite subpar performances by Andre Drummond and horrible officiating.

[WTF]

But yes I still want Trey Burke on this team. I am so convince that given the right opportunity in the right place that he's going to be special. I think here especially at this moment he would be perfect.

I was always in favor of trading for Cousins and we had a shot but Joe got scared or his hands were tied. I know wanted Cousins and Cousins wanted to be here in Detroit. All you Moose fans didn't want Cousins because you all thought Moose was the ****. Moose is a good player and I would like to have him back as a backup behind a Cousins.

If we're giving up Andre in a trade then I would have to take Cousins over Brow. I would love to have them both but that's a lot of cap.....

It's a win but still not convinced, 3 in a row and still I'm not sold on not making major changes. Yes Reggie almost blew this game and yes Andre was useless in this one.

[KaySlay]

Lemon, I actually believe that Uni could be had with the right package!

I'm intrigued by this, but I dont think NO would take what WE are offering. They (IMO) would want much more (or at least I would for the brow). What type of package do you think could legitimately get us Davis?

Rubio would be nice simply due to addition by subtraction. Also having a legit point guard would make everyone better. Ish on steroids? I'd take that everyday and TWICE on Sunday!

Saw the last 3.5 minutes of the game and all I have to say is cut the cancer out ASAP! Morris and Drums saved us. I CANNOT wait to see how this team plays with him gone!

[BallinD]

I'm glad we won, but we didn't deserve it the way we damn near choked this one away, and Reggie was at the heart of the crap, wasting possessions, but we got lucky.

I too want a superstar, Unibrow/George/Cousins/Butler/Wall but we gotta cut the cancer out first.

That RJax fool tried to give another game away, if not for the heroics of Mr. Marcus and Dre, that would be another fold at the end heartbreaking loss. First things First. Make the Trade.

This dribble dribble dribble probe, dribble, oh damn, I guess I'll pass it late in the clock...go do something boys, has got to be getting old, SVG.

[lemonpen]

SVG's denial wasn't exactly unequivocal.  He begins by saying that discussions probably did take place, then backs away saying he doesn't know.  Also, he's overly specific in texting Reggie, saying he won't be traded for Rubio (btw, does even this denial leave a package deal as possible?), but he evidently doesn't address the larger possibility with Reggie at all (although with the press he brings up that anything's possible).  He denied anything was being considered, but stipulates that what he means by consideration, that it involves him being brought in during the later stages of trades, rather than that no discussions took place, which were in fact probable.

Ugh.  I've seen SVG praised for his bluntness.  Having watched his 6 min interview, I see a combination of straightforwardness along with the capacity of the English major he was to leave much unanswered while appearing to be straightforward, partly by being so precise.  For instance, I would have thought that if something's being "discussed" it's being "considered" (otherwise it's mindless drivel); for SVG, discussions guided by Bower occur all the time, without SVG being directly informed; some of these discussions become more serious when they're genuine possibilities; some of these (only then!!?) become "considered" when presented to SVG.  Presumably the presentation to Gores constitutes yet another level of seriousness.  Ironically, it's these fine distinctions which facilitate possibilities for evasiveness with the press, all the while combined with an appearance of bluntness.  
btw, trading for Cousins seems quite possible.  I think Sac would go for a trade for Drummond.  That'd be a real talent upgrade for us, but there's a reason (or many, realy) for Sac to bite on that deal.  Forget about the Brow though.  No way.

Swing for the fences Stan.

Now that you have come to understand a need for real change, get to work and bring home a STUD.  We don't need more role players, we have plenty.  We need an Alpha Male.  Someone with enough game to outclass all comers and enough swagger to uplift the confidence of his teammates in any situation.    We need a guy who makes his teammates believe they are better than they really are.

Bring home the Uni-Brow.  
Or, and I can't believe I'm typing this, go get Cousins.

Okay I'm woke now just passed out because I couldn't believe lemon said this

Is there really a possibility that we could get either.  Not that I care but I don't see how we do either without give up Andre in the process.  Not saying it's not possible just hard to see.  Just saying because most of you are Andre fans me on the other hand I haven't been a big fan of his.   I do know this if we put either Brow or Cuz next to him they would push him.  

An executive's favorite tool, plausible deniability.

[Oracle]

Brow or Cousins  4. Reggie and Dre.  It would be worth any short-term step back.

I've been a huge NO to Cousins, but I'm so over Drummond and his no FT shooting arse!

Lemon, I actually believe that Uni could be had with the right package!

IMO, we wouldn't step back much, but by season end, we'd be one dangerous team with either of them.

For those who keep track of such things, what's the opinion? Would it be easier to get Cousins or Anthony Davis? Don't be scared, after a few years, you don't notice it that much

[Sponsored content]