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Touching...
NBA star holds premature baby for first time
Cleveland Cavaliers player J.R. Smith shared a touching Instagram photo of his first opportunity to hold his daughter since her premature birth.
http://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2017/02/07/j-r-smith-holds-premature-baby-orig-vstan.cnn
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Still Kinda Indifferent but.....
But no doubt Brady is a HOF're but I'm going to go back to an old favorite saying and say that the game was a lot more competitive and tougher when Bradshaw, and Montana tossed that ball around. Yeah I'm Old!!!!!
Truthfully though some of the most talented and skilled QB's played back then most of these new QB's play on a wing and a prayer (this also includes my favorite QB) Matthew Stafford. They're athletic no doubt, might even be bigger, quicker and faster but not nearly as talented.
Now these guys look only good for a minute and the game is made too easy See: Kapernick, Wilson, and so on.
As I said I've became conflicted in the past couple of weeks and my Homerism slightly faded hard not to cheer all things Maze and Blue but..... So I guess I can look at it for all perspectives. Seattle and Atlanta gifted the Patriots 2 SB so I can't say Brady just took this games more than both head coaches for the opposing team gave them away. BTW didn't I see Atlanta fired their OC today.
Fickle as the media and writes are and yes some fans Brady might get treated like TO, I don't think it would be fair if he did but if they can keep a 4th on the list of all time great WR out who knows.
Truthfully though some of the most talented and skilled QB's played back then most of these new QB's play on a wing and a prayer (this also includes my favorite QB) Matthew Stafford. They're athletic no doubt, might even be bigger, quicker and faster but not nearly as talented.
Now these guys look only good for a minute and the game is made too easy See: Kapernick, Wilson, and so on.
As I said I've became conflicted in the past couple of weeks and my Homerism slightly faded hard not to cheer all things Maze and Blue but..... So I guess I can look at it for all perspectives. Seattle and Atlanta gifted the Patriots 2 SB so I can't say Brady just took this games more than both head coaches for the opposing team gave them away. BTW didn't I see Atlanta fired their OC today.
Fickle as the media and writes are and yes some fans Brady might get treated like TO, I don't think it would be fair if he did but if they can keep a 4th on the list of all time great WR out who knows.
WTF- Posts : 4722
Join date : 2011-12-13
Stuff
Cool Breeze: I doubt Andre ever becomes the physical or cerebral player that Baynes is. Drummond's physical gifts allow him to to bypass many of the fundamentals of positioning and such. I'm surprised he isn't striped more often as he brings almost every rebound down waist high.
Frankly, I think Ish is more of a hard nose defender that Dre. Ish seems to carry a chip on his shoulder. Maybe its a little guy thing, or a bench player thing.
Reggie: While I'm pleased to see him give up the ball more frequently I just don't care for his generalship. When your team is getting any shot they want in close why pass to Pope curling off a screen for a pullup J 3 feet behind the arc. Clank.
Pope: See above. Sometimes he initiates his own poor shooting night by taking too many Loooooow percentage shots early in the game. Which generates Breezes favorite and justified IQ complaint.
SVG: Last night highlighted a case of "You can lead them to water but can't make um drink". Stan designed a beautiful 3 pass play leading to an easy basket out of a time out. Then, the next time down Reggie goes all Reggie for yet another 0 pass inexplicably ridiculous moment.
Stanley J: Talk about a guy trying to figure himself out. He must owe Hollywood royalties for The Good, The Bad & The Ugly. Dude is forever trying stuff he can't do.
Pelicans: If the rumors are true about Okafor I guess they are finally looking to put talent next to Unibrow. Oh well.
Frankly, I think Ish is more of a hard nose defender that Dre. Ish seems to carry a chip on his shoulder. Maybe its a little guy thing, or a bench player thing.
Reggie: While I'm pleased to see him give up the ball more frequently I just don't care for his generalship. When your team is getting any shot they want in close why pass to Pope curling off a screen for a pullup J 3 feet behind the arc. Clank.
Pope: See above. Sometimes he initiates his own poor shooting night by taking too many Loooooow percentage shots early in the game. Which generates Breezes favorite and justified IQ complaint.
SVG: Last night highlighted a case of "You can lead them to water but can't make um drink". Stan designed a beautiful 3 pass play leading to an easy basket out of a time out. Then, the next time down Reggie goes all Reggie for yet another 0 pass inexplicably ridiculous moment.
Stanley J: Talk about a guy trying to figure himself out. He must owe Hollywood royalties for The Good, The Bad & The Ugly. Dude is forever trying stuff he can't do.
Pelicans: If the rumors are true about Okafor I guess they are finally looking to put talent next to Unibrow. Oh well.
lemonpen- Posts : 1624
Join date : 2011-12-27
Location : Southfield, MI
G.O.A.T.
A few more numbers to digest.
The Steelers competed their run in a 7 year span, with many of the same personnel. Between his offensive teammates and the “Steel Curtain” Bradshaw was joined by 10 others in the HOF.
The 49’ers competed their run in a 9 year span, with many of the same key personnel. Montana threw to the greatest wide receiver ever and was also supported by HOF members Bill Walsh, DE (Fred Dean), and CB/S (Ronnie Lott).
Brady led his team to the SB nearly twice as many times as the others. His 5 W’s span 16 seasons with different personnel. When Brady gets the call he will be enshrined with only his coach. Can you imagine that. Not one other great player to lean on.
Two HOF'ers accomplished more, with less and did it longer.
The Steelers competed their run in a 7 year span, with many of the same personnel. Between his offensive teammates and the “Steel Curtain” Bradshaw was joined by 10 others in the HOF.
The 49’ers competed their run in a 9 year span, with many of the same key personnel. Montana threw to the greatest wide receiver ever and was also supported by HOF members Bill Walsh, DE (Fred Dean), and CB/S (Ronnie Lott).
Brady led his team to the SB nearly twice as many times as the others. His 5 W’s span 16 seasons with different personnel. When Brady gets the call he will be enshrined with only his coach. Can you imagine that. Not one other great player to lean on.
Two HOF'ers accomplished more, with less and did it longer.
lemonpen- Posts : 1624
Join date : 2011-12-27
Location : Southfield, MI
Piston players need more tough love it appears and in today's game assistant coaches have no power to provide that.
My former neighbor and friend who has been a head coach for several college programs and assistant NBA and short time head NBA coach used to vent his frustration relating to players he coached during his long career. As a high school and college coach it is always necessary to show some tough love to certain players if you care about helping them become better players. It is not fun for the coach and is always a toss up as to how criticism will be received by players. But if you are a coach who knows how each position should be played the right way and can calmly show players how to correct their flaws until they show you in practice that they know how to correct the flaws, eventually those players that do listen will be thankful for the rest of their lives that you identified a way that they could get better. The emotions always show up at first and usually simmer as the players who care get to work on their weaknesses. Then my friend revealed what it is like to coach professional players. Most players ignore the assistant coaches and only half listen to the head coaches in the NBA. The D-League players are more focused relating to being open to listening to ways they can improve but when players sign those guaranteed contracts and have powerful agents, assistant coaches must tip toe around and hope they do not throw the basketball out to a player too hard so it won't appear that the assistant has offended them. Of course a lot of NBA players always want to improve and will appreciate help the assistant can provide but many in today's game have tuned out the assistant coaches.
After reading the above comments how many of you fans have identified any player on this Piston team that has improved in any area this season from last season? Remember when Stan Van Gundy mentioned after the season was over that his assistant coaches would be working hard with the core players over the summer so they will be ready and greatly improved when this season started? I tried to be objective but couldn't think of any player who has improved especially on the defensive end so far this season. In fact the point guard position in general is much worse when thinking of success by the point guards to guard top tier guards on other teams. Andre Drummond has not improved his on ball defense or off ball rotation decision making skills this season. That must bother the coaching staff a lot. Charles Barkley speaks the truth regardless of what Labron might say. I have been on the assistant coaches for being negligent as coaches but forgot about how everything does work in the modern game today. In the older days, the players did rule this sport. If the core players were solid hard working players who hated to lose, they would make life very difficult for the weak lazy ass Charley V type fakers. Could you ever imagine Charlie V playing on Zeke and Bill Laimbeer's team? That is why it is still puzzling for me to understand how Joe Dumars could have ever signed that man in free agency.
What can be done to improve things if the assistant coaches have to remain silent and just watch players faking it on the hardwood? my friend made this point that does work or at least the fans who pay for those expensive tickets can at least get some revenge when they watch dull pick up type basketball games at the Palace. Get an organized chant going on in the stands when fans watch a guy like Andre Drummond allowing his man to easily get position on him or drive around Drummond and shoot the basketball when they see that Andre has not even bothered to raise his arms above his waist. If the coaches are not allowed to say something to Andre then maybe the fans need to take charge. Andre is not the only one who fakes it on defense. If the fans get on the players when they are not playing with emotion and purpose, it at least will make for some good laughs and can be fun. I would also beg that Andre's mother would get on him too if she sees him getting lazy. Andre and and maybe one other highly paid starter needs some tough love from the fans in the stands. My old coaching buddy says that in the NBA that type of thing does work. The players hate it. So Piston fans who attend games, you can make a difference. There is work to be done to improve this team. Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson both could become excellent defensive players. If they are forced to do it, our Pistons could become an elite team in the league. Maybe if the chanting gets real loud and those players become heroes instead of chumps, they will thank you when their careers are over. Go Pistons!
After reading the above comments how many of you fans have identified any player on this Piston team that has improved in any area this season from last season? Remember when Stan Van Gundy mentioned after the season was over that his assistant coaches would be working hard with the core players over the summer so they will be ready and greatly improved when this season started? I tried to be objective but couldn't think of any player who has improved especially on the defensive end so far this season. In fact the point guard position in general is much worse when thinking of success by the point guards to guard top tier guards on other teams. Andre Drummond has not improved his on ball defense or off ball rotation decision making skills this season. That must bother the coaching staff a lot. Charles Barkley speaks the truth regardless of what Labron might say. I have been on the assistant coaches for being negligent as coaches but forgot about how everything does work in the modern game today. In the older days, the players did rule this sport. If the core players were solid hard working players who hated to lose, they would make life very difficult for the weak lazy ass Charley V type fakers. Could you ever imagine Charlie V playing on Zeke and Bill Laimbeer's team? That is why it is still puzzling for me to understand how Joe Dumars could have ever signed that man in free agency.
What can be done to improve things if the assistant coaches have to remain silent and just watch players faking it on the hardwood? my friend made this point that does work or at least the fans who pay for those expensive tickets can at least get some revenge when they watch dull pick up type basketball games at the Palace. Get an organized chant going on in the stands when fans watch a guy like Andre Drummond allowing his man to easily get position on him or drive around Drummond and shoot the basketball when they see that Andre has not even bothered to raise his arms above his waist. If the coaches are not allowed to say something to Andre then maybe the fans need to take charge. Andre is not the only one who fakes it on defense. If the fans get on the players when they are not playing with emotion and purpose, it at least will make for some good laughs and can be fun. I would also beg that Andre's mother would get on him too if she sees him getting lazy. Andre and and maybe one other highly paid starter needs some tough love from the fans in the stands. My old coaching buddy says that in the NBA that type of thing does work. The players hate it. So Piston fans who attend games, you can make a difference. There is work to be done to improve this team. Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson both could become excellent defensive players. If they are forced to do it, our Pistons could become an elite team in the league. Maybe if the chanting gets real loud and those players become heroes instead of chumps, they will thank you when their careers are over. Go Pistons!
cool breeze- Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-12-21
Good win for the Pistons. Does Andre Drummond pay attention to how Baynes plays defense when he is on the bench? And the injury to Ben Simmons
Ish Smith played a good game in front of his old team.
Reggie Jackson focused more on playing better defense and he did. He also became a pass first point guard until the middle part of the fourth quarter. Reggie doesn't look healthy and he is most likely in some sort of pain when he is out there on the hard court. I respect him for adjusting his game to fit what is going on physically with his body.
Detroit had 8 turnovers in the first half and you could see the frustration on the sideline with Stan Van Gundy. The team looked very beatable in the first half but Philly looked out of sorts and tired as well.
Baynes played well on both ends for all of his minutes. I was wondering if Andre Drummond pays attention to how Baynes positions himself and reacts to obvious situations while if not attempting to block shots at least gets his arms up. Baynes also ran the court from baseline to baseline hard for the entire game.
Pope got his shooting touch back.
Morris continued to shine on both ends.
Harris struggled on defense but played with his usual great effort and ran the court hard.
While Johnson rebounded well, played a good floor game, his jump shot release looks really bad. Johnson always had a soft one handed release in college. I never saw him shoot a lion drive type of jumper when he played for Sean Miller who knows a lot about shooting technique. This summer Johnson worked with an assistant coach to get a faster release. Now he shoots the basketball with both hands instead of taking the non shooting hand off the basketball before he lets it fly. I don't know anyone who shoots the basketball well using that technique. Also, all good shooters know the importance of getting a solid jump stop when moving fast and catching or dribbling while moving fast before you go up for a jump shot. It looked as if Johnson doesn't get a solid base to get his balance before going up for his shot. Bend the knees and spread the feet more is the answer to correct that problem. Get a new shooting coach Stanley.
Andre Drummond came alive midway through the 3rd quarter but slept through the first half and first part of the 3rd. The answer to my question above relating to if Andre Drummond pays attention to his teammate Baynes relating to how he plays defense the right way, it appears that Drummond is not paying attention at all. You can learn a lot as a young player by just watching what is going on. But it appears that Andre is not 100% in with the idea that even though a player might have made it financially after signing a max contract, the real satisfaction is when you become the best player you can possibly become. So far that is not a priority for Andre Drummond. He coasted for the entire first half of this game and the first half of the 3rd quarter. Okafor noticed Andre's lame defensive effort and easily drove around him during Andre's down time which was over 75% of the entire game. Andre's assigned man knew that our franchise player would not even bother to put his arms up in the air before that player released his shot within 3 feet of the basket. It was always easy to get within 3 feet of the basket too. Why did that happen. Baynes never allowed that to happen. The coaches must cringe when watching Andre Drummond play defense. Andre keeps his arms down and lets his man shoot the ball and then looks to see if the ball goes in the hole. Great job Mr. Franchise player. Last night Detroit won the game but the coaches must have talked about Andre's ineptness. All those big slam dunks he gets cannot make up for his defensive laziness. Because the coaches know that when things are not going well during dry spells for Piston shooters, you at least need your big man playing hard in the paint on defense. SVG must fear trading Baynes knowing he has just Andre and Boban left to bang in the paint on defense. Of course Boban is a better defender than Drummond and Leuer is also a better option than Drummond. And it appears that Andre Drummond doesn't give a crap at all about becoming a better defender. I believe he thinks that Piston fans are not paying attention to how he plays. So I suggest that Piston fans who attend the games, start booing Andre when he fails to give an honest effort on defense. That is what the fans did to him when he played in college. Andre Drummond only wants to shoot the rock and play offense. That is the way he has always been. Instead of being a real hero in Detroit and be known as the best paint protector in the NBA which he is clearly capable of becoming, Andre will be known when he retires as a guy who never reached his full potential and as a slacker when playing defense. Nobody will remember all those stats including the big dunks. They will remember Ben Wallace the over achiever who played the right way.
Now what about the curse Philly has experienced with injures over the past few seasons. It is incredible now that the number one pick, Ben Simmons has not played because of a Jones fracture involving the 5th metatarsal of his foot. Simmons gained a lot of weight over the summer. Tough luck Philly fans.
Reggie Jackson focused more on playing better defense and he did. He also became a pass first point guard until the middle part of the fourth quarter. Reggie doesn't look healthy and he is most likely in some sort of pain when he is out there on the hard court. I respect him for adjusting his game to fit what is going on physically with his body.
Detroit had 8 turnovers in the first half and you could see the frustration on the sideline with Stan Van Gundy. The team looked very beatable in the first half but Philly looked out of sorts and tired as well.
Baynes played well on both ends for all of his minutes. I was wondering if Andre Drummond pays attention to how Baynes positions himself and reacts to obvious situations while if not attempting to block shots at least gets his arms up. Baynes also ran the court from baseline to baseline hard for the entire game.
Pope got his shooting touch back.
Morris continued to shine on both ends.
Harris struggled on defense but played with his usual great effort and ran the court hard.
While Johnson rebounded well, played a good floor game, his jump shot release looks really bad. Johnson always had a soft one handed release in college. I never saw him shoot a lion drive type of jumper when he played for Sean Miller who knows a lot about shooting technique. This summer Johnson worked with an assistant coach to get a faster release. Now he shoots the basketball with both hands instead of taking the non shooting hand off the basketball before he lets it fly. I don't know anyone who shoots the basketball well using that technique. Also, all good shooters know the importance of getting a solid jump stop when moving fast and catching or dribbling while moving fast before you go up for a jump shot. It looked as if Johnson doesn't get a solid base to get his balance before going up for his shot. Bend the knees and spread the feet more is the answer to correct that problem. Get a new shooting coach Stanley.
Andre Drummond came alive midway through the 3rd quarter but slept through the first half and first part of the 3rd. The answer to my question above relating to if Andre Drummond pays attention to his teammate Baynes relating to how he plays defense the right way, it appears that Drummond is not paying attention at all. You can learn a lot as a young player by just watching what is going on. But it appears that Andre is not 100% in with the idea that even though a player might have made it financially after signing a max contract, the real satisfaction is when you become the best player you can possibly become. So far that is not a priority for Andre Drummond. He coasted for the entire first half of this game and the first half of the 3rd quarter. Okafor noticed Andre's lame defensive effort and easily drove around him during Andre's down time which was over 75% of the entire game. Andre's assigned man knew that our franchise player would not even bother to put his arms up in the air before that player released his shot within 3 feet of the basket. It was always easy to get within 3 feet of the basket too. Why did that happen. Baynes never allowed that to happen. The coaches must cringe when watching Andre Drummond play defense. Andre keeps his arms down and lets his man shoot the ball and then looks to see if the ball goes in the hole. Great job Mr. Franchise player. Last night Detroit won the game but the coaches must have talked about Andre's ineptness. All those big slam dunks he gets cannot make up for his defensive laziness. Because the coaches know that when things are not going well during dry spells for Piston shooters, you at least need your big man playing hard in the paint on defense. SVG must fear trading Baynes knowing he has just Andre and Boban left to bang in the paint on defense. Of course Boban is a better defender than Drummond and Leuer is also a better option than Drummond. And it appears that Andre Drummond doesn't give a crap at all about becoming a better defender. I believe he thinks that Piston fans are not paying attention to how he plays. So I suggest that Piston fans who attend the games, start booing Andre when he fails to give an honest effort on defense. That is what the fans did to him when he played in college. Andre Drummond only wants to shoot the rock and play offense. That is the way he has always been. Instead of being a real hero in Detroit and be known as the best paint protector in the NBA which he is clearly capable of becoming, Andre will be known when he retires as a guy who never reached his full potential and as a slacker when playing defense. Nobody will remember all those stats including the big dunks. They will remember Ben Wallace the over achiever who played the right way.
Now what about the curse Philly has experienced with injures over the past few seasons. It is incredible now that the number one pick, Ben Simmons has not played because of a Jones fracture involving the 5th metatarsal of his foot. Simmons gained a lot of weight over the summer. Tough luck Philly fans.
cool breeze- Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-12-21
Don
Don, I like doing the same thing.
Ok, I retract that remark, all I ask for is fairness across the board.
Ok, I retract that remark, all I ask for is fairness across the board.
cool breeze wrote:
No Oracle I do not sit around and wait for players to have bad games. I am a happy person who feels very grateful for the life I have been given. When it comes to basketball, I love to watch fundamentally sound players who have the urge to always be prepared to play. And I look and appreciate players who like playing team orientated basketball. Instead we continue to watch street pick up style basketball involving players who appear not to be on the same page with each other on the court. The team is going in the wrong direction and SVG has screwed up the salary structure so badly that these players will be doing their thing in Piston uniforms for a long time. Pretty sad really but I love trying to figure out why teams are dysfunctional and attempt to find solutions. The solution for improvement in my opinion would be to move the highly paid players now but as usual there is no interest in those players.
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Really great response!
I love this response because it's very accurate.
Wile I do think Bradshaw is very underrated, I'll concede that I've likely overrated him because those Steeler teams, based on sheer power alone, may have been the best of all time. But he was a pretty crummy QB at the beginning, but developed into a very good one. But could he have done it without that Steel Curtain defense? probably not, and Franco's immaculate reception.. who knows.
But Montana just WILLED his teams to greatness, and he showed that ability even in college!
So if anyone wants to move Brady into #2, well, there's some justification, but as always, and as Don said, comparing across eras is difficult.
Wile I do think Bradshaw is very underrated, I'll concede that I've likely overrated him because those Steeler teams, based on sheer power alone, may have been the best of all time. But he was a pretty crummy QB at the beginning, but developed into a very good one. But could he have done it without that Steel Curtain defense? probably not, and Franco's immaculate reception.. who knows.
But Montana just WILLED his teams to greatness, and he showed that ability even in college!
So if anyone wants to move Brady into #2, well, there's some justification, but as always, and as Don said, comparing across eras is difficult.
Sparma wrote:Team context pertains in trying to isolate the value of the individual. The championship Cavs going 4-18 without LeBron, even when they've got two (super??)stars left & another highly paid guy in TT tells me something about LeBron's greatness. The Bulls did real well (although no longer great) when MJ went to play baseball; that too helps me to isolate his contribution to their greatness. [Even so, MJ's greatness in the finals (along with flawless 6-0 finals record) probably secures GOAT for him, when combined with everything else he has going for him.]
I loved Bradshaw, but his team was so darned great that his individual greatness is diminished a tad. To say that the team carried him would be an exaggeration, but to say that the team was so great that it could compensate for some erraticness on his part seems accurate. (The chief beneficiary of the Steelers' team greatness is Lynn Swann, I think, who wouldn't have sniffed the HOF without his team getting him to the point where he could excel on the biggest stage.) By contrast, my sense is that Brady's had (only) two legit HOFs along on O over the years, Randy Moss for a short while, and (the oft-injured) Gronk. And the team hasn't missed a beat without either, much of which is attributable to Brady. I realize QB numbers have gotten much better over time (eg HOFer Stabler threw more picks than TDs), but Bradshaw didn't have the best stats even in his day (of course he gets all credit owed for 4-0 in the SBs). Looking back, I see, somewhat to my surprise, that Roger Staubach had a significantly better pass completion rate and TD/Int ratio. Also, when Brady took over from a good QB in his second year the Pats won the SB having been mediocre the three years prior to Brady being their QB (9-7; 8-8; 5-11). By contrast, the Steelers went 1-13, 5-9, 6-8 in Bradshaw's first 3 seasons, becoming really good with Franco Harris along as a rookie, then SB winners with that incredible '74 draft. To me, that speaks to Brady's great impact and Bradshaw's somewhat lesser impact.
I understand that you're saying Montana and Bradshaw had flawless, unblemished, records in the SB. I think we can agree that that's really important, but also only a fraction of what goes into assessing the GOAT. You may well be right about Montana being the greatest; I think you're overrating the greatness of the great Bradshaw a bit.
Johnny Unitas is a whole different kettle of fish; the '64 championship game vs the Browns is the first football game I remember seeing, on a neighbor's crummy black and white TV. And let's not even think about Otto Graham!
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
GOAT
Team context pertains in trying to isolate the value of the individual. The championship Cavs going 4-18 without LeBron, even when they've got two (super??)stars left & another highly paid guy in TT tells me something about LeBron's greatness. The Bulls did real well (although no longer great) when MJ went to play baseball; that too helps me to isolate his contribution to their greatness. [Even so, MJ's greatness in the finals (along with flawless 6-0 finals record) probably secures GOAT for him, when combined with everything else he has going for him.]
I loved Bradshaw, but his team was so darned great that his individual greatness is diminished a tad. To say that the team carried him would be an exaggeration, but to say that the team was so great that it could compensate for some erraticness on his part seems accurate. (The chief beneficiary of the Steelers' team greatness is Lynn Swann, I think, who wouldn't have sniffed the HOF without his team getting him to the point where he could excel on the biggest stage.) By contrast, my sense is that Brady's had (only) two legit HOFs along on O over the years, Randy Moss for a short while, and (the oft-injured) Gronk. And the team hasn't missed a beat without either, much of which is attributable to Brady. I realize QB numbers have gotten much better over time (eg HOFer Stabler threw more picks than TDs), but Bradshaw didn't have the best stats even in his day (of course he gets all credit owed for 4-0 in the SBs). Looking back, I see, somewhat to my surprise, that Roger Staubach had a significantly better pass completion rate and TD/Int ratio. Also, when Brady took over from a good QB in his second year the Pats won the SB having been mediocre the three years prior to Brady being their QB (9-7; 8-8; 5-11). By contrast, the Steelers went 1-13, 5-9, 6-8 in Bradshaw's first 3 seasons, becoming really good with Franco Harris along as a rookie, then SB winners with that incredible '74 draft. To me, that speaks to Brady's great impact and Bradshaw's somewhat lesser impact.
I understand that you're saying Montana and Bradshaw had flawless, unblemished, records in the SB. I think we can agree that that's really important, but also only a fraction of what goes into assessing the GOAT. You may well be right about Montana being the greatest; I think you're overrating the greatness of the great Bradshaw a bit.
Johnny Unitas is a whole different kettle of fish; the '64 championship game vs the Browns is the first football game I remember seeing, on a neighbor's crummy black and white TV. And let's not even think about Otto Graham!
I loved Bradshaw, but his team was so darned great that his individual greatness is diminished a tad. To say that the team carried him would be an exaggeration, but to say that the team was so great that it could compensate for some erraticness on his part seems accurate. (The chief beneficiary of the Steelers' team greatness is Lynn Swann, I think, who wouldn't have sniffed the HOF without his team getting him to the point where he could excel on the biggest stage.) By contrast, my sense is that Brady's had (only) two legit HOFs along on O over the years, Randy Moss for a short while, and (the oft-injured) Gronk. And the team hasn't missed a beat without either, much of which is attributable to Brady. I realize QB numbers have gotten much better over time (eg HOFer Stabler threw more picks than TDs), but Bradshaw didn't have the best stats even in his day (of course he gets all credit owed for 4-0 in the SBs). Looking back, I see, somewhat to my surprise, that Roger Staubach had a significantly better pass completion rate and TD/Int ratio. Also, when Brady took over from a good QB in his second year the Pats won the SB having been mediocre the three years prior to Brady being their QB (9-7; 8-8; 5-11). By contrast, the Steelers went 1-13, 5-9, 6-8 in Bradshaw's first 3 seasons, becoming really good with Franco Harris along as a rookie, then SB winners with that incredible '74 draft. To me, that speaks to Brady's great impact and Bradshaw's somewhat lesser impact.
I understand that you're saying Montana and Bradshaw had flawless, unblemished, records in the SB. I think we can agree that that's really important, but also only a fraction of what goes into assessing the GOAT. You may well be right about Montana being the greatest; I think you're overrating the greatness of the great Bradshaw a bit.
Johnny Unitas is a whole different kettle of fish; the '64 championship game vs the Browns is the first football game I remember seeing, on a neighbor's crummy black and white TV. And let's not even think about Otto Graham!
Sparma- Posts : 2559
Join date : 2011-12-17
Re: FORUM
Oracle wrote:Do you just sit around and wait for players to have bad games to pick at them?
Face it, everybody looks bad when a team is losing, and it's complicated, but this time it isn't that complocated.
Remove Reggie from the starting lineup and let the team gel with Ish again and this ship will be righted!
I agree, we likely can't move Reggie, so at least could SVG recognize that he's not the same player and tell him maybe next year you'll be back to yourself and have him come off the bench?
Hell, Manu did it for the good of the team and Reggie can't hold his jock!
No Oracle I do not sit around and wait for players to have bad games. I am a happy person who feels very grateful for the life I have been given. When it comes to basketball, I love to watch fundamentally sound players who have the urge to always be prepared to play. And I look and appreciate players who like playing team orientated basketball. Instead we continue to watch street pick up style basketball involving players who appear not to be on the same page with each other on the court. The team is going in the wrong direction and SVG has screwed up the salary structure so badly that these players will be doing their thing in Piston uniforms for a long time. Pretty sad really but I love trying to figure out why teams are dysfunctional and attempt to find solutions. The solution for improvement in my opinion would be to move the highly paid players now but as usual there is no interest in those players.
cool breeze- Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-12-21
Sparma
Let me clear up a few things because I think you're reading way more into the statement than is intended.
1. Team comparison is fine, but the greatest ever was a QB only comparison if I'm not mistaken, otherwise I stand corrected.
2. Flawless is hardly something anyone can use in sports to represent the human component. Therefore, we can only use that to talk about record. The record of both Bradshaw & Montana in Super Bowl games is 100% flawless, not a sigle loss.
Other than that. I'm pretty much in agreement with your post.
1. Team comparison is fine, but the greatest ever was a QB only comparison if I'm not mistaken, otherwise I stand corrected.
2. Flawless is hardly something anyone can use in sports to represent the human component. Therefore, we can only use that to talk about record. The record of both Bradshaw & Montana in Super Bowl games is 100% flawless, not a sigle loss.
Other than that. I'm pretty much in agreement with your post.
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Brady
I've always thought Montana was the greatest QB, and I continue to respect that view.
Maybe with Wise, I'm unhappy that Brady's been such a visible Trump supporter.
I don't think these GOAT discussions can be settled definitively, in part because different things can be meant. If we're going by fastest and strongest, recent tends to be best. No sprinter from the 60s, if teleported, need bother to lace them up to try to compete with Usain Bolt.
Bradshaw and Montana flawless. Let's be careful about what's meant. Bradshaw competed 51.9% of his passes, and threw nearly as many interceptions (210) as TDs (212). That would be an unacceptable rate of failure for a good QB today.
Are we trying to figure out who's the greatest Super Bowl QB ever? No.
Who's the greatest for the entire package? If we were Montana and Bradshaw might win that award, even making it to the SB an extra three times is something to which I give weight, beyond just the record setting win total. If we're looking at the regular season alone Peyton Manning may well be the greatest. Do the rest of the playoffs count? (if so, Montana was hardly flawless: (Wiki on the favored 49ers losing to the Vikings): "During the off-season, a quarterback controversy between Joe Montana and Steve Young had begun after Montana's poor performance in the playoffs the previous year."
If we set aside considerations of steadily increasing size and speed, Bradshaw's Steelers may be the greatest team ever. You've got a HOF running back, two HOF WRs, a HOF OLer, to go with Bradshaw on O. And that's the comparatively weak side of their team. Montana's 49ers would be another strong candidate as all time greatest, beginning with likely greatest WR.
One thing that jumps out at me about NE is how regular dudes play (games) at HOF level. As a casual fan now, I hadn't heard of Horgan before he put up 180, didn't know about James White until he broke a SB record for receptions? Credit needs to be shared between Brady and others, including the coaching staff, but NE has an uncanny record of turning regular guys into household names.
NE does have a complementary HOFer in Gronk. But without Gronk (the past 2 years), NE didn't lose a game. Brady deserves part of that credit.
Belichick's a fantastic coach, but Noll and especially Walsh were fantastic too, so I don't think that should distract that much from Brady.
Of course, we all know that only Brady led a SB comeback like yesterday's (bearing in mind that Montana was quite a comeback kid himself) and that only he's thrown for as many yards as yesterday in a SB (even when limiting ourselves to regulation).
NE's won without Brady, both this season and when he was out for a season (didn't they go 11-5, just missing the playoffs?). That brings Brady's stock down some (by contrast look at how horrendous the Cavs have been without LeBron since his return. Is it 4-18?). But then the chief rival as GOAT hardly proved indispensable himself, with Steve Young continuing the dynasty after beating out (!) Montana.
Maybe Brady isn't the GOAT, and my UM bias is showing. It won't take much (but more than reciting his SB record) to convince me that Montana still holds that title. But when combining reg seasons & playoffs & longevity, Brady's built a heck of a case.
Maybe with Wise, I'm unhappy that Brady's been such a visible Trump supporter.
I don't think these GOAT discussions can be settled definitively, in part because different things can be meant. If we're going by fastest and strongest, recent tends to be best. No sprinter from the 60s, if teleported, need bother to lace them up to try to compete with Usain Bolt.
Bradshaw and Montana flawless. Let's be careful about what's meant. Bradshaw competed 51.9% of his passes, and threw nearly as many interceptions (210) as TDs (212). That would be an unacceptable rate of failure for a good QB today.
Are we trying to figure out who's the greatest Super Bowl QB ever? No.
Who's the greatest for the entire package? If we were Montana and Bradshaw might win that award, even making it to the SB an extra three times is something to which I give weight, beyond just the record setting win total. If we're looking at the regular season alone Peyton Manning may well be the greatest. Do the rest of the playoffs count? (if so, Montana was hardly flawless: (Wiki on the favored 49ers losing to the Vikings): "During the off-season, a quarterback controversy between Joe Montana and Steve Young had begun after Montana's poor performance in the playoffs the previous year."
If we set aside considerations of steadily increasing size and speed, Bradshaw's Steelers may be the greatest team ever. You've got a HOF running back, two HOF WRs, a HOF OLer, to go with Bradshaw on O. And that's the comparatively weak side of their team. Montana's 49ers would be another strong candidate as all time greatest, beginning with likely greatest WR.
One thing that jumps out at me about NE is how regular dudes play (games) at HOF level. As a casual fan now, I hadn't heard of Horgan before he put up 180, didn't know about James White until he broke a SB record for receptions? Credit needs to be shared between Brady and others, including the coaching staff, but NE has an uncanny record of turning regular guys into household names.
NE does have a complementary HOFer in Gronk. But without Gronk (the past 2 years), NE didn't lose a game. Brady deserves part of that credit.
Belichick's a fantastic coach, but Noll and especially Walsh were fantastic too, so I don't think that should distract that much from Brady.
Of course, we all know that only Brady led a SB comeback like yesterday's (bearing in mind that Montana was quite a comeback kid himself) and that only he's thrown for as many yards as yesterday in a SB (even when limiting ourselves to regulation).
NE's won without Brady, both this season and when he was out for a season (didn't they go 11-5, just missing the playoffs?). That brings Brady's stock down some (by contrast look at how horrendous the Cavs have been without LeBron since his return. Is it 4-18?). But then the chief rival as GOAT hardly proved indispensable himself, with Steve Young continuing the dynasty after beating out (!) Montana.
Maybe Brady isn't the GOAT, and my UM bias is showing. It won't take much (but more than reciting his SB record) to convince me that Montana still holds that title. But when combining reg seasons & playoffs & longevity, Brady's built a heck of a case.
Sparma- Posts : 2559
Join date : 2011-12-17
More Don...
Do you just sit around and wait for players to have bad games to pick at them?
Face it, everybody looks bad when a team is losing, and it's complicated, but this time it isn't that complocated.
Remove Reggie from the starting lineup and let the team gel with Ish again and this ship will be righted!
I agree, we likely can't move Reggie, so at least could SVG recognize that he's not the same player and tell him maybe next year you'll be back to yourself and have him come off the bench?
Hell, Manu did it for the good of the team and Reggie can't hold his jock!
Face it, everybody looks bad when a team is losing, and it's complicated, but this time it isn't that complocated.
Remove Reggie from the starting lineup and let the team gel with Ish again and this ship will be righted!
I agree, we likely can't move Reggie, so at least could SVG recognize that he's not the same player and tell him maybe next year you'll be back to yourself and have him come off the bench?
Hell, Manu did it for the good of the team and Reggie can't hold his jock!
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Don
I respect your opinion, even though I disagree.
This is where people can disagree and still realize that others can see things differently.
What I do agree with you about is that Brady has uncanny accuracy. He also has a great TEAM oriented coach, the Pop of the football world!
My opinion is that you can't beat flawless with the flawed!
Montana & Bradshaw were flawless in the Super Bowl, it's almost unthinkable that they could do that, but they did!
This is where people can disagree and still realize that others can see things differently.
What I do agree with you about is that Brady has uncanny accuracy. He also has a great TEAM oriented coach, the Pop of the football world!
My opinion is that you can't beat flawless with the flawed!
Montana & Bradshaw were flawless in the Super Bowl, it's almost unthinkable that they could do that, but they did!
cool breeze wrote:Oracle wrote:My ASS, and I know why Wise jumped off of him!!!
He's #3 in my book.
#2 Terry Bradshaw, nowhere near the beauty of Brady's passing, but just a damn gutsy player and an undefeated winner!
#1 Joe Montana by a mile! You can't beat a perfect record... you just can't!
Watch the games, Montana was brilliant and clutch as hell!
As a pure passer, I've never seen anybody better than Dan Marino.
My Dad has footage of Johnny Unitas, and he did stuff you wouldn't believe. Defensive backs would swear he was a mind reader, and he did it in BAD Weather!
Brady deserver his props, this was a great win, but he's not the best ever!
I respectfully disagree and think that Brady is the best leader quarterback player that I have ever witnessed. His accuracy was incredible as he seemed unaffected after getting knocked down so many times by Atlanta's defensive linemen giants.
It is of course impossible to rank players from different eras. My Father had a lot of game film of the great Bobby Lane who would somehow come alive in the 2nd half of Lion games and get his teammates on both offense and defense so fired up that they were unbeatable. Those were the glory days for Detroit when the Lions ruled and stomped the Cleveland Browns. Joe Montana, in my opinion, was a really good player but not in the class of Brady. The players are bigger and stronger. The game is faster and the contact allowed by defensive backs and the defensive systems used today make it much harder for quarterbacks to be successful. Brady's team was behind by 25 points wasn't it? There was no room for any mistakes and he somehow had ice water in his veins handling so much pressure how could anyone not say that this display of courage and professionalism was the best that any of us has ever seen. This Atlanta team had a great defense and they were confident and motivated. I thought it would be impossible for Brady to be successful coming out in that 2nd half.
We should clarify that this is a team game and without an equally incredible performance from the New England Receivers, Patriot defense in the 2nd half, Brady wouldn't have been the MVP. And if only the Lions had New England's coach we would' the watching so many second rate players going through the motions. What a fantastic game by both teams!! And the half time show was much better than I expected.
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
After spending time with 2 Philly fans this weekend once again I found out that life isn't fair
While I was bitching about the soft Detroit Piston players during the Super Bowl, two of my friends were needling me about the Piston payroll vs team performance. Then both made a statement that blew my mind. Those two are incredible basketball people who love their 76ers like we love our Detroit Pistons. Both said that the reason why they show up for the games in Philly and what makes Philly fans happy these days even though their team has suffered through more darkness than the Pistons is the fact that they have a real hero on their team to root for. He is the underdog TJ McConnell who everyone now knows was not deemed good enough by the experts to ever play in a regular season NBA game. Now TJ is the guy that draws fans and gets them so excited by his unselfish play that they keep buying season tickets. The fans identify when a player is interested in playing the right way and TJ McConnell is one of those guys who does not have elite athleticism but he plays with guts and smarts well enough that his team is becoming fun to watch. MCConnell made under 1 mil last year and now is under contract for just over 1 mil for the next two seasons. My friends had a good laugh when they brought up the fact that the Pistons have Philly's reject point guard, Ish Smith for $6 mil a year for two more seasons after this lost season. What could I say to that? Why is it that Stan Van Gundy is not able to crawl under the woodwork and find young talent that is obviously out there being ignored right now while he ponders paying KCP $20 mil? The Pistons need some younger more innovative thinkers running the ship it appears. The Pistons have gone in the opposite direction since Joe Dumars left. Joe was so tight with company money that he never signed a quality back up combo guard. He signed and kept Jason Maxiell for salary reasons. But perhaps Tom Gores would now prefer Joe Dumars over Stan Van Gundy now that the bloated payroll has only achieved the same level of quality that Joe offered. Isn't there any middle ground? Aren't the current players just a bit embarrassed too? The 3rd highest payroll my God that sucks!
cool breeze- Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-12-21
Interesting articles on the Pistons options before the trade deadline
After reading a bit about opinions relating to who might go one analyst mentioned Reggie Jackson's low prabability of being moved. I think this is an accurate statement because of Reggie's declining performance level since his Knee procedures. No team wants him. Who is to blame? Perhaps nobody because no GM or player can help it when the fatal injury bug hits. Anyone who has been a basketball player and suffers a knee injury will tell you no matter how hard you might try, you cannot get back what you once had. Reggie is here to stay so should SVG use the nuclear option and remove Reggie the way Smith was removed? Reggie Jackson played with real heart last season even though he was an inferior defender. Now he cannot finish the way he did in so many games last season. My thought is for Reggie is why not transform your game and learn how to defend better and become a pass first type point guard. He still has enough quickness even with his bad knee to become a good defender because even though he has lost a bit of quickness that had separated him from others, he still is quick enough to get through screens and stay in front of his man on defense. He has those long arms too that would allow him to cause a lot of trouble if he had the intestinal fortitude to work on becoming an elite defender. And Reggie can still shoot with range and could be used at the 2 guard position if he can learn how to defend. No team will take a chance on him so I would like SVG to have a long talk with Reggie and figure out how he can still help the team by changing his old style of ball domination to a new team orientated type of style.
The other players being mentioned do not include Pope. I am surprised but it appears that no other team wants to take KCP on because his agent has such high expectations for his new contract. What team wants to pay Pope more than 10 million a year? How many teams would be interested in paying $20 mil for his services?
So it will be Baynes, Bullock, or maybe Harris or Morris it appears of maybe nothing will happen. I sure don't see any talk about Ish Smith and his 3 year 6 mil a year contract.
Why is there no chatter relating to Andre Drummond and his $22 mill to 27 mil contract? Did management possibly pay so much for our players that the team is now stuck in the mud?
The other players being mentioned do not include Pope. I am surprised but it appears that no other team wants to take KCP on because his agent has such high expectations for his new contract. What team wants to pay Pope more than 10 million a year? How many teams would be interested in paying $20 mil for his services?
So it will be Baynes, Bullock, or maybe Harris or Morris it appears of maybe nothing will happen. I sure don't see any talk about Ish Smith and his 3 year 6 mil a year contract.
Why is there no chatter relating to Andre Drummond and his $22 mill to 27 mil contract? Did management possibly pay so much for our players that the team is now stuck in the mud?
cool breeze- Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-12-21
Re: FORUM
Oracle wrote:My ASS, and I know why Wise jumped off of him!!!
He's #3 in my book.
#2 Terry Bradshaw, nowhere near the beauty of Brady's passing, but just a damn gutsy player and an undefeated winner!
#1 Joe Montana by a mile! You can't beat a perfect record... you just can't!
Watch the games, Montana was brilliant and clutch as hell!
As a pure passer, I've never seen anybody better than Dan Marino.
My Dad has footage of Johnny Unitas, and he did stuff you wouldn't believe. Defensive backs would swear he was a mind reader, and he did it in BAD Weather!
Brady deserver his props, this was a great win, but he's not the best ever!
I respectfully disagree and think that Brady is the best leader quarterback player that I have ever witnessed. His accuracy was incredible as he seemed unaffected after getting knocked down so many times by Atlanta's defensive linemen giants.
It is of course impossible to rank players from different eras. My Father had a lot of game film of the great Bobby Lane who would somehow come alive in the 2nd half of Lion games and get his teammates on both offense and defense so fired up that they were unbeatable. Those were the glory days for Detroit when the Lions ruled and stomped the Cleveland Browns. Joe Montana, in my opinion, was a really good player but not in the class of Brady. The players are bigger and stronger. The game is faster and the contact allowed by defensive backs and the defensive systems used today make it much harder for quarterbacks to be successful. Brady's team was behind by 25 points wasn't it? There was no room for any mistakes and he somehow had ice water in his veins handling so much pressure how could anyone not say that this display of courage and professionalism was the best that any of us has ever seen. This Atlanta team had a great defense and they were confident and motivated. I thought it would be impossible for Brady to be successful coming out in that 2nd half.
We should clarify that this is a team game and without an equally incredible performance from the New England Receivers, Patriot defense in the 2nd half, Brady wouldn't have been the MVP. And if only the Lions had New England's coach we would' the watching so many second rate players going through the motions. What a fantastic game by both teams!! And the half time show was much better than I expected.
cool breeze- Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-12-21
Remember When
Failure was not getting home court advantage when our expectations were really high and with good cause/reason. The bar was set high that anything less than a trip to the ECF or Finals wasn't good enough.
What happen people that we spend so much of our time wishing with this team that we would rather see other teams get worse before seeing this team get better, That we can cheer an 8th seed with a sub .500 record and deem it a success. Okay Right! this coming from the ultimate Lions Homer but it's not from a lack of effort that they lose. This Pistons team that's another story this team can get their ass whipped and still be giving each other high fives on a meaningless ally oop to the 22 Million Dollar Man
They do this dumb **** because there are no leaders on this team, there's nobody pissed off with the losing and inconsistency with many of the players. I swear really we never cheer a 2 game win steak in our lives before now. We watch our team go 11-1 in month, we used to watch them run off 8-9 wins in a roll hell I think we seen them go undefeated in a month. This team wins 2 games and somehow they turned a corner
This team goes down without a fight way to often if you're going to lose at least put of a good fight. I don't recall this team getting routed as it does now. Yes the crap happens but it's far less than every blue moon. Damn if I don't look up more times than not and their getting their asses whipped.
CAN WE RAISE THE BAR AND DEMAND BETTER NOW RATHER THAN LATER!!!!!!!!!!!!
What happen people that we spend so much of our time wishing with this team that we would rather see other teams get worse before seeing this team get better, That we can cheer an 8th seed with a sub .500 record and deem it a success. Okay Right! this coming from the ultimate Lions Homer but it's not from a lack of effort that they lose. This Pistons team that's another story this team can get their ass whipped and still be giving each other high fives on a meaningless ally oop to the 22 Million Dollar Man
They do this dumb **** because there are no leaders on this team, there's nobody pissed off with the losing and inconsistency with many of the players. I swear really we never cheer a 2 game win steak in our lives before now. We watch our team go 11-1 in month, we used to watch them run off 8-9 wins in a roll hell I think we seen them go undefeated in a month. This team wins 2 games and somehow they turned a corner
This team goes down without a fight way to often if you're going to lose at least put of a good fight. I don't recall this team getting routed as it does now. Yes the crap happens but it's far less than every blue moon. Damn if I don't look up more times than not and their getting their asses whipped.
CAN WE RAISE THE BAR AND DEMAND BETTER NOW RATHER THAN LATER!!!!!!!!!!!!
WTF- Posts : 4722
Join date : 2011-12-13
Brady the Greatest of all time...
My ASS, and I know why Wise jumped off of him!!!
He's #3 in my book.
#2 Terry Bradshaw, nowhere near the beauty of Brady's passing, but just a damn gutsy player and an undefeated winner!
#1 Joe Montana by a mile! You can't beat a perfect record... you just can't!
Watch the games, Montana was brilliant and clutch as hell!
As a pure passer, I've never seen anybody better than Dan Marino.
My Dad has footage of Johnny Unitas, and he did stuff you wouldn't believe. Defensive backs would swear he was a mind reader, and he did it in BAD Weather!
Brady deserver his props, this was a great win, but he's not the best ever!
He's #3 in my book.
#2 Terry Bradshaw, nowhere near the beauty of Brady's passing, but just a damn gutsy player and an undefeated winner!
#1 Joe Montana by a mile! You can't beat a perfect record... you just can't!
Watch the games, Montana was brilliant and clutch as hell!
As a pure passer, I've never seen anybody better than Dan Marino.
My Dad has footage of Johnny Unitas, and he did stuff you wouldn't believe. Defensive backs would swear he was a mind reader, and he did it in BAD Weather!
Brady deserver his props, this was a great win, but he's not the best ever!
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
HEAD SCRATTCHER!!! FALCONS COACH CHOKED BIG TIME!!!! & OTHER NEWS
I've always was a huge Brady fan but felt a little indifferent about wanting him to win. I won't go in to detail about the change of heart But any who why do coaches tend to out think themselves? Falcons head coach and OC should be kicking themselves about right now for being boneheads with a two score lead (16 pts) with less than 5 minutes and the ball on NE 20 only to walk away with no points because on bone head play calling. What should have been at worse a 19 pt lead and NE needing 3 scores to win turn ugly for the Dirty Birds.
Brady GOAT perhaps he is indeed a beast but some will make the same argument they make for MJ for Montana & Bradshaw (UNDEFEATED)
After the Pistons fall on their collective faces tonight against the Sixer's SVG should fire himself People this inconsistency is what I keep moaning about with this under-achieving team. 3rd highest payroll and this is what we're getting it's time fan's revolt
Brady GOAT perhaps he is indeed a beast but some will make the same argument they make for MJ for Montana & Bradshaw (UNDEFEATED)
After the Pistons fall on their collective faces tonight against the Sixer's SVG should fire himself People this inconsistency is what I keep moaning about with this under-achieving team. 3rd highest payroll and this is what we're getting it's time fan's revolt
WTF- Posts : 4722
Join date : 2011-12-13
GOAT, BB, SVG
Nicely illustrated, KaySlay. Great game, which I watched on a halting screen.
GOAT indeed for Brady, unless he disgraces himself from here on in a la Willie Mays with the Mets. Hard to make the case for Montana over Brady, even with his 4-0 in the Super Bowl. I actually think Rogers is the better QB now, but for his career he's stuck at 1 SB win [a total which the Lions would gladly take.]
There's a good case too for Belichick as greatest NFL coach, much as I admired Lombardi. Maybe similar to making a case for Pops as the superior coach to Auerbach [leaving Phil J aside here.] As I remember, BB started as a lowly assistant coach with the Lions.
btw, I think SVG resembles BB in attempting to continuously upgrade incrementally. The total disanalogy is that BB insists on players abiding by the Patriot way: eg the talented but undisciplined Jamie Collins goes to the Browns for little return; Lions' outcast Kyle van Noy becomes a valuable contributor for the Pats. SVG, by contrast, lets the most prominent players (Reggie, AD) do their thing even when it's clearly to the detriment of the team. Different sport, no doubt, but I'm disappointed by Stan's failure to get optimal performance from guys, even though he has plenty of pedagogical advice for the likes of SJ, Boban, and Ellenson.
GOAT indeed for Brady, unless he disgraces himself from here on in a la Willie Mays with the Mets. Hard to make the case for Montana over Brady, even with his 4-0 in the Super Bowl. I actually think Rogers is the better QB now, but for his career he's stuck at 1 SB win [a total which the Lions would gladly take.]
There's a good case too for Belichick as greatest NFL coach, much as I admired Lombardi. Maybe similar to making a case for Pops as the superior coach to Auerbach [leaving Phil J aside here.] As I remember, BB started as a lowly assistant coach with the Lions.
btw, I think SVG resembles BB in attempting to continuously upgrade incrementally. The total disanalogy is that BB insists on players abiding by the Patriot way: eg the talented but undisciplined Jamie Collins goes to the Browns for little return; Lions' outcast Kyle van Noy becomes a valuable contributor for the Pats. SVG, by contrast, lets the most prominent players (Reggie, AD) do their thing even when it's clearly to the detriment of the team. Different sport, no doubt, but I'm disappointed by Stan's failure to get optimal performance from guys, even though he has plenty of pedagogical advice for the likes of SJ, Boban, and Ellenson.
Sparma- Posts : 2559
Join date : 2011-12-17
Bout time!
Welcome to the darkside. Hopefully us Pistons fans can see the light soon!
OTOH: Super Bowl blowout? Not what I expected nor wanted to see. So much for the Golden Boy being the GOAT.
Also, got to see the tail end of the LAC-BOS game and see Sir Paul Pierce get the curtain call in Boston and end his career there with a 3 pointer. Always a Pierce fan, glad to see him go out on a high note!
OTOH: Super Bowl blowout? Not what I expected nor wanted to see. So much for the Golden Boy being the GOAT.
Also, got to see the tail end of the LAC-BOS game and see Sir Paul Pierce get the curtain call in Boston and end his career there with a 3 pointer. Always a Pierce fan, glad to see him go out on a high note!
KaySlay- Posts : 53
Join date : 2016-10-20
Location : Phoenix
What's wrong with you guys...
Oh, our team is playing like they're caught in a Sh!t Storm
I'm not going to argue with anybody, I'm all out of defense for any of them!
If they want us to defend them, they're going to have to put up or shut up, and it starts with this lost coach!
While Indy is a bad matchup for us, have been for quite some time, there's no excuse for what Don pointed out!
The problem starts with SVG, because this team should be a lot better than this!
Great posts guys!
I'm not going to argue with anybody, I'm all out of defense for any of them!
If they want us to defend them, they're going to have to put up or shut up, and it starts with this lost coach!
While Indy is a bad matchup for us, have been for quite some time, there's no excuse for what Don pointed out!
The problem starts with SVG, because this team should be a lot better than this!
Great posts guys!
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Playoffs?!?!?
5 games under 500, yet in the playoffs as a 8th seed.
Effectively no mans land. Too good to get a good lottery pick. Too bad to do anything meaningful in the playoffs.
How do we improve from here? It will take more than a mid 1st round pick and a second or third tier FA. Not that we have the financial flexibility anyway....
Like Oracle, Sparma and others have alluded to our payroll serverly handicaps us.
No mans land....
Andre gets steals, but no enough blocks. I.E. no real rim protection, therefore no respect from opposing teams when going in the paint. Blocks hold a different value compare to steals due to the ability to greatly impact a high percentage shot.
Andre needs to lose 10-15 LBS. this will most likely have to be done in the off season to prevent any loss of muscle mass and strength. Doing so will allow him to keep the strength but regain some of the explosiveness and bounce in his step to properly protect the rim. As Cool has stated we still need to address the drive and engery level we get from the highest paid and longest tenured Piston.
Stanley lost weight and improved his conditioning and I think everyone in the forums can see the results of his work!
Can we nickname Leuer "The Mechanic"? He isn't flashy, but man does he get the job done out there in a no nonsense way! One of a few players on the team with a high BB IQ.
Morris.... well he is really surprising me in how he is attraking the basket, passing the ball, and being aggressive on both sides of the court.
Not impressed with, but happy about Reggie being less ball dominant and the results are obvious. He is still on my chit list, but seeing him pass the ball more is refreshing.
KCP "Mr. Consistanly Inconsistant" Can we finally admit KCP is like a box of chocolates? At this stage in his career he needs to be able to do more than just shoot 41.6% and play above average defense. Take lessons from Leuer, Tobias and more recently Morris to use a more diverse shot selection. We know he can play defense but as a shooting guard what has he honestly added to his game since his rookie season?
58 points in the 1st half. 26 points in the second. Turnovers galor! The second half was a disaster and SVG couldn't fix it. Anyone surprised?
Effectively no mans land. Too good to get a good lottery pick. Too bad to do anything meaningful in the playoffs.
How do we improve from here? It will take more than a mid 1st round pick and a second or third tier FA. Not that we have the financial flexibility anyway....
Like Oracle, Sparma and others have alluded to our payroll serverly handicaps us.
No mans land....
Andre gets steals, but no enough blocks. I.E. no real rim protection, therefore no respect from opposing teams when going in the paint. Blocks hold a different value compare to steals due to the ability to greatly impact a high percentage shot.
Andre needs to lose 10-15 LBS. this will most likely have to be done in the off season to prevent any loss of muscle mass and strength. Doing so will allow him to keep the strength but regain some of the explosiveness and bounce in his step to properly protect the rim. As Cool has stated we still need to address the drive and engery level we get from the highest paid and longest tenured Piston.
Stanley lost weight and improved his conditioning and I think everyone in the forums can see the results of his work!
Can we nickname Leuer "The Mechanic"? He isn't flashy, but man does he get the job done out there in a no nonsense way! One of a few players on the team with a high BB IQ.
Morris.... well he is really surprising me in how he is attraking the basket, passing the ball, and being aggressive on both sides of the court.
Not impressed with, but happy about Reggie being less ball dominant and the results are obvious. He is still on my chit list, but seeing him pass the ball more is refreshing.
KCP "Mr. Consistanly Inconsistant" Can we finally admit KCP is like a box of chocolates? At this stage in his career he needs to be able to do more than just shoot 41.6% and play above average defense. Take lessons from Leuer, Tobias and more recently Morris to use a more diverse shot selection. We know he can play defense but as a shooting guard what has he honestly added to his game since his rookie season?
58 points in the 1st half. 26 points in the second. Turnovers galor! The second half was a disaster and SVG couldn't fix it. Anyone surprised?
KaySlay- Posts : 53
Join date : 2016-10-20
Location : Phoenix
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