Now Piston fans have to look to Tom Gores for leadership and direction

[cool breeze]

Watching Stan Van Gundy on the sidelines last night and for the past month, he appears very frustrated most of the time. The reason for that frustration must be that his players are not executing his defensive or offensive game plan. That will get under the skin of any coach at any level. It appears that Stan is only concentrating on improving his coaching while hoping that his players will come around eventually and play better together which might land the team in the playoffs. However, something is for sure broken after this team's performance against Indiana. With all the money that has been spent and those top 6 players turn the basketball over so much in the 3rd quarter, no coach can stand for that ineptness. Even watching and listening to Reggie Jackson during a half time interview, he appeared to be somewhere else as he said all the appropriate things the team needed to do in the 2nd half. Something is up. Philly is coming to town with some young players who are very excited to play the game. If Philly dismantles the Pistons again like they have done before in an earlier match up with TJ the un drafted 2nd year point guard that Philly management picked over the $6 million dollar a year back up Ish Smith, Something new has to happen. everybody knows it. Is it true that nobody wants Reggie Jackson and his contract? How many teams want Andre Drummond at $22 mil. this season alone? As Sparma suggested the likely candidate to trade might be Baynes and that will not only allow Boban to get more playing time but also Ellenson. But trading Baynes does very little to reduce the bulging salary obligations confronting Tom Gores team. The goal should be to get Ellenson playing every game for the rest of the season taking minutes from Harris, Leuer, Drummond and Boban depending on the match ups. Everyone should be included as expendable. Harris, Leuer, Drummond, Jackson, Smith, and Pope should be on the trading block now before the trade deadline. My bet is that Stan Van Gundy and Tom Gores have reached that same conclusion. Does anyone know which team might be interested in taking any of those contracts without having to take in another under achiever? I like Harris a lot but he has issues playing defense much like the rest of this group. Pope had another bad outing scoring wise. When he played good defense the refs screwed him by not calling two charges when Pope had worked so hard getting in the proper position and then getting knocked to the hardwood with the drivers off arm. The refs didn't call an honest game for sure. For some reason, I am getting excited because this team looked so bad Stan Van Gundy will have to change his tactics as a coach and President or he is going to get fired.

[Sparma]

Tankathon shows us to be in the worst spot right now, BallinD, just outside of the lottery. If that holds up, we're likely to get crushed in a pointless playoff series without ending up with a high draft pick. I'd prefer to be in the lottery, but I can't see SVG maneuvering in that direction (unless he already is with his timid handling of Reggie J and AD??). Not with that payroll.

I'd at least go for trade of Baynes for a salary and a 2nd rounder, which I'm guessing is available. I'd do that in part to see what Boban has to offer.

If I could get me a halfway decent RJ trade, I'd go for that too.

I guess that's a trading in order to position of the draft strategy.

[BallinD]

Lottery Fever vs. Trade Fever is right around the corner.
Anybody who watches the games can see that this ship is sailing toward the sunset.  Can a trade right the ship?  Tinkering around the edges will do no more than inserting Leuer into the starting lineup did.  It is re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  SVG has been exposed and the players, confused and disheartened and complacent and lazy for the most part, have followed his lead.

Pistons.com: "For the second straight game, the backcourt of Reggie Jackson and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope combined to shoot 5 of 20. It was another opportunity missed by the Pistons to get a road win and build some momentum after their two-game winning streak – coupled with Charlotte’s five-game losing streak – had elevated them into the eight spot in the Eastern Conference playoff race."

[cool breeze]

Remember that the Pistons are paying Josh Smith, what, circa $5 mil a year for the foreseeable future. Gores could see that as SVG handling the budget terribly, or he could see it as a necessary expenditure, with zero return from that player. If we look at the money being spent on this year's roster, the figure goes down some, to around Dallas's expenditure on Oracle's chart, as I remember.

That Josh Smith extended pay out continues to bear on present roster making. I don't think the Pistons can realistically trade Morris any time soon, unless there's something big going on behind the scene, simply because he's a productive player for a relatively low salary, something needed by the team in Josh's wake. If the forward jam were to be relieved, I guessing it would need to be the much more highly paid Harris leaving, if accompanied by salary relief (after the season).

Maybe the easiest place to relieve cost would be at the center position, where we've got a max player, along with a couple of decently compensated back ups. The team may be reluctant to trade Baynes if they perceive him as important to a playoff run, but I think they might be tempted by a salary & a 2nd rounder, just to get the payroll down next year.

For similar reasons, I continue to wonder if they might trade to trade KCP in a packet deal (at least along with one of the centers) to avoid complete salary blockage down the line. He seems to have earned a big pay day, so probably not.

Don's idea that SVG might be feeling some financial (as well as performance) pinch sounds right.

Will the next guy who replaces Stan Van Gundy have to release Jackson, Drummond, Smith, Leuer, and Morris too? The fans are ready to watch the D-League players on 10 day contracts for pure entertainment purposes especially the loyal season ticket holders. I would not be surprised if our team loses the next 4 out of 5 games. If I were the owner, I would ask for Stan Van Gundy to give his salary back for this season but keep him on until he cleans up the mess he has made. But this is all on the players who have betrayed Stan Van Gundy. I sense that the designated team leader, Reggie Jackson has a lot to do with how this team has been performing, The players have to respect their team leader who always has to be a player and not a coach. Every player looks frustrated and seems to be going their own way which is a true sign of lack of leadership among the key players. Stan Van Gundy has designated certain roles for each starter and all have failed in some way or another to do the job the coach has requested. Those same players would tune out any other coach in my opinion. Perhaps Van Gundy needs better assistant coaches but this is a players league and this group of players look better than Charlie V type players but just not smart enough to hold their own against real teams that like playing together as a unit. It is going to be interesting to see who goes. It was the players who caused 20 turnovers not the coaches. The coaches allowed dysfunction to take place for way too long too. So Tom Gores has his hands full trying to correct things and get the Pistons back on track.

[cool breeze]

WOW!!! I never thought that I would ever see that stat by any team I had an interest in at all. This group of key players set the Piston history record in this game against Indiana who played the game without Young and Stuckey. Did Indiana look like a outstanding NBA team? No way.

Many of us saw this coming. It wasn't just the turnovers last night that reveals how dysfunctional the top 6 players have become. What I saw all night long was an offense that featured one guy with the ball and the other 4 players just standing. On defense the top 6 players also had one thing in common. Every player failed to run out hard to close out on shooters. Indiana did one thing that this Piston group of 6 failed to do. They moved without the basketball and passed the basketball sometimes 3 or 4 times before their players took an open shot. But those 10 turnovers in the 3rd quarter by the Piston starters and Harris might end up being the final nail in the coffin for this group. Pope is still the same Pope who will look like a dead eye shooter and hard nosed player for one out of 10 games. Drummond still fails to do the job he is capable of doing on the defensive end by not recognizing the strengths and weaknesses of the player he is assigned to guard. Smith and Jackson cannot guard any top tier or 2nd tier level guard and neither can run a half court offense. Jeff Teagues would be like a breath of fresh air in a Piston uniform. Harris although a good offensive player but cannot defend power forwards or small forwards well enough. Leuer would not be a starter on any other NBA team including all those teams that have worse records than the Pistons. Leuer has his moments in the first half of games when he drills that nice 6 to 8 foot baseline jump shot when he does move without the basketball. But Leuer is not a strong player and also is not an alert hard nose defender. If Leuer can get a lot stronger and have more stamina, he has potential but Leuer is not a 20 year old guy where anyone can say there is something special that just hasn't come out yet. Jackson appeared to be either ill or injured in this game. It was clear that he didn't belong in a starting role last night at least. But I did like the fact that he was sharing the basketball even though he couldn't defend anyone or get any loose balls. Morris is the most consistent starter when thinking of his effort on defense and his hard work on the offensive end. He doesn't move much on offense but he is always a threat to make that long jump shot against pressure. And Morris is the lowest paid starter by many millions of dollars. The rest of the players who received minutes including Johnson Baynes, Bullock and Smith had very little positive effect. All of the reserves made mistakes on defense.

Indiana has proven that the Eastern Conference is so bad that if management can get a group of players to buy in to giving a great effort on defense, their team can separate themselves from the rest of the dysfunctional teams in the conference. There is only one reason why our Piston players continue to embarrass themselves is their lack of ability to execute the defensive game plan. There are too many fundamentally unsound players on this team and the players who are most fundamentally unsound are in the starting group. They can't protect the basketball on offense and have extremely low basketball IQs when it comes to playing defense. The players appear to be trying hard but most of them make bone head mistakes in the defensive rotations and appear to look like they hate playing with each other. Meanwhile, how many times did the television camera pick up Stan Van Gundy throwing his arms in the air when Andre Drummond failed to get out on his man who kept making medium range jump shots. Andre would look over to Stan Van Gundy after he screwed up like a small child who had stolen cookies from the cookie jaw before dinner time. We Piston fans are watching players with the minds of children who have been given millions of dollars to play with. What coach in the entire United States could coach them?

While Labron James keeps saying that Charles Barkley is a "HATER" (argument of intimidation used to spread false information - a tactic used by Boris Badinoff and Natasa in the Rockie and Bowinkle cartoon show as well as the old Soviet Union's efforts to spread false information to cause friction between ethic groups and races in the USA so they could create a leftist Maxist state here) we all know Sir Charles is correct. Barkley only had to use his common sense to find the truth about this Piston team. All he had to do was look at the Piston payroll and then watch the players perform last week to identify what kind of players Stan Van Gundy has put together in his role as supreme leader. Will Labron James spend some of his 100s of millions on someone other than the refs this summer to create a hate filled march against Charles Barkley and create enough mass hysteria that his fans will capture Barkley and send him to Siberia? Labron is trying hard to protect his brothers in the NBA. He wants to remain on the top of the heap and needs more teams like the Pistons so he can extend his playing career. But his fans are true believers to the end and will strike out at poor Charles Barkley who only wanted to tell the truth. Most likely he will be fired by TNT because he is not politically correct. This disagreement between Barkley and James might be the only excitement we Piston fans will have this season. But wow we might get out team in the playoffs in that 8th spot so we can watch the slaughter in the first round again.

The Pistons are only one of many horrible NBA teams this season. But the Pistons have an extremely high payroll and this is not a case where Piston management is going through tough nights in order to develop young talent like Philly and the Lakers are doing. And by the way those two teams that I mentioned have one more positive thing going for them along with hope for the future because the young guys are getting playing time. They also have positioned themselves for another strong draft. Maybe we fans will get to watch some of their rejects next season if Stan Van Gundy can pull off a miracle and trade any or all of his starters. But the only calls Stan is receiving involves Morris.

[Phil-Good]

I have A PG who is young and ready to take the next step in his career. I also think over the long run, he will be A better player then Reggie Jackson. This kid name is



COREY JOSEPH!!!  Back-up PG for the Toronto Raptors.


I'm telling you this kid can play and is ready to lead his won team.

[Sparma]

Remember that the Pistons are paying Josh Smith, what, circa $5 mil a year for the foreseeable future. Gores could see that as SVG handling the budget terribly, or he could see it as a necessary expenditure, with zero return from that player. If we look at the money being spent on this year's roster, the figure goes down some, to around Dallas's expenditure on Oracle's chart, as I remember.

That Josh Smith extended pay out continues to bear on present roster making. I don't think the Pistons can realistically trade Morris any time soon, unless there's something big going on behind the scene, simply because he's a productive player for a relatively low salary, something needed by the team in Josh's wake. If the forward jam were to be relieved, I guessing it would need to be the much more highly paid Harris leaving, if accompanied by salary relief (after the season).

Maybe the easiest place to relieve cost would be at the center position, where we've got a max player, along with a couple of decently compensated back ups. The team may be reluctant to trade Baynes if they perceive him as important to a playoff run, but I think they might be tempted by a salary & a 2nd rounder, just to get the payroll down next year.

For similar reasons, I continue to wonder if they might trade to trade KCP in a packet deal (at least along with one of the centers) to avoid complete salary blockage down the line. He seems to have earned a big pay day, so probably not.

Don's idea that SVG might be feeling some financial (as well as performance) pinch sounds right.

[cool breeze]

Both Johnson and Pope are help defenders who make the teammates they play with look much better. For sure Baynes looks better when he plays with Pope and Johnson. Why Van Gundy didn't use that combination is inexcusable especially when a nice lead evaporated under his watch in the 2nd quarter.

This has been my dream, to get Stanley and KCP in the same lineup!

You only need two really good perimeter defenders to make the other 3 look good, but you do need one big man, either the PF or center to be very good defenders to break away from the pack!

Stanley is the guy we're waiting on, if he can get his game together by next year, I would consider it time to get him in the starting lineup at SF, who he defends will be based on matchups.

Stanley can be a SF offensively, but he gives up too much height defensively(6'6). He does push them away from the basket, but he has no defense if the guy can just rise up over him and shoot.

Remember, KCP used to put up single figure games a lot in his first and second year, Stanley WILL come around!

Oracle I will be very surprised if Stan Van Gundy doesn't do something before the trade deadline to reduce the Piston's total payroll. Right now Van Gundy is in the hot seat. The owner has a lot of money to throw around but he is still a businessman and when he watches dull inept basketball and his friends make negative comments about the under achieving team we have this season, Tom Gores knows that he has the 3rd highest payroll. It is out there for all to see and it makes Tom Gores look like he is not a good businessman. Stan must be in a panic situation wishing he had done a few things differently. Noticing Jerebco in the starting unit for Boston a few nights ago, must make the owner wonder why SVG didn't re sign Jonas while he was rebuilding the team. SVG brought in 4 power forwards since Jerebco was rejected by Stan. What was Jerebco asking as far as a new contract was concerned? He is a smart defender, can shoot the 3 point shot, is unselfish, sets screens, can drive, and defends as well or better than any of the four power forwards who have played since Jonas moved to Boston. The Pistons were not going to win a championship anyway and the team could be in a much better financial position now if Stan had not dismissed Jerebco as an option for two or 3 years. The owner must wonder about the two point guard signings of Van Gundy as well just from the standpoint that neither point guard can play average defense. SVG must have held his breath last night when Reggie went down with what looked to be a knee injury. Was Stan thinking how can I trade him now? Trading Jackson would take some pressure off Van Gundy just from a payroll standpoint. Detroit has a dysfunctional team as constructed by Stan Van Gundy with the 3rd highest payroll in the league with few options available to reduce the payroll. Meanwhile, he has no room for Ellenson to learn how to play the NBA game. If this team keeps on playing poorly struggling to beat non playoff teams like the Timberwolves, Stan might use the nuke option and start trying to give away players. Meanwhile the Suns have a very stingy payroll and they have a great record against Eastern conference teams. The owner knows that fact as well. Some of the loses Detroit has racked up was caused from lack of interest and effort. Stan never addressed that with his starters relating to taking away playing time for the guilty players. But most of the loses have come because the players Van Gundy has signed to those large contracts are just no where close to being as talented, committed or skilled as the opposing players who love kicking their asses. The players Stan gave his trust in have betrayed him without flinching. If you have flaws in your game which guys like Drummond and Jackson do have, you have to make up for that by giving maximum effort every minute that you are on the floor. Instead, the players fake it a lot and must be saying " I got you coach". They got the money and Stan can't do a damn thing about it. Charles Barkley can't be far off with his recent comments.

The saga continues. What will happen before the trade deadline? I would be very surprised if any of the highly paid players can be moved. Maybe by next season this group will get tired of losing and we will see a miracle transformation. Maybe Andre Drummond will get hit by lightning and suddenly say to himself, I want to be the best defensive center in the NBA. Andre is so athletic that if he had the discipline and work ethic Drummond could almost carry an NBA team by himself if he turned himself into a bigger Dennis Rodman. Watch some D.R. film Andre. All it takes is extreme effort. Put some heat balm in your jock strap.

Will we ever see the day when Pope and Johnson create an iron curtain around the Piston defensive perimeter? We might wait a long time if Van Gundy cannot move some of his contracts. He must play the contracts now because of how he has managed the team payroll wise. While Joe Dumars made Bill Davidson look like a genius businessman with his conservative financial philosophy, Stan is making Gores look like an idiot. How long can that last. Van Gundy must believe he is on thin ice. It doesn't help that his players tune him out. High character is difficult to find with modern day players hauling in all that money.

[Oracle]

What a way to close out the first half!!!

Ish Smith makes one hell of a difference! The dude can dribble anywhere he wants to, and that makes it easy for everybody else as he drives defenses crazy!

[Oracle]

Both Johnson and Pope are help defenders who make the teammates they play with look much better. For sure Baynes looks better when he plays with Pope and Johnson. Why Van Gundy didn't use that combination is inexcusable especially when a nice lead evaporated under his watch in the 2nd quarter.

This has been my dream, to get Stanley and KCP in the same lineup!

You only need two really good perimeter defenders to make the other 3 look good, but you do need one big man, either the PF or center to be very good defenders to break away from the pack!

Stanley is the guy we're waiting on, if he can get his game together by next year, I would consider it time to get him in the starting lineup at SF, who he defends will be based on matchups.

Stanley can be a SF offensively, but he gives up too much height defensively(6'6). He does push them away from the basket, but he has no defense if the guy can just rise up over him and shoot.

Remember, KCP used to put up single figure games a lot in his first and second year, Stanley WILL come around!

[cool breeze]

Notice in the Pistons vs Pelicans game where the group that played so well on the defensive end and had the best chemistry was Pope, Smith, Johnson, Baynes-Drummond, and Harris-Morris. I thought that Stan Van Gundy had identified something new. But to my amazement, our coach ignored or forgot what had worked in the previous game and went back to his old combinations and this team couldn't stop anyone on defense from the moment that group stepped out on the court. Stagnation set in and it started on one play in the first quarter when Morris and Harris were playing. Pope set a screen in the paint and Harris either didn't recognize this screen or he knew that Drummond would not pass the ball if Morris had made the proper cut. Sure thing, Drummond did shoot an off balance shot and missed. That was the start of the dysfunction on both ends of the floor. When both Morris and Harris on playing together at small forward and power forward, the Piston defense really suffers and the 2 guard is not involved at all in the offense. Stan Van Gundy either is an idiot or he is really smart trying to make a final decision as to if he needs to trade either Morris or Harris before the trade deadline. This combination hasn't worked all season long. SVG changed the starting lineup because of that fact. Neither Morris or Harris are really good defenders. Add Smith to that group and everyone looks bad. I am not trying to take the attention away from Stanley Johnson and his miserable performance. He made way too many mistakes. But neither Pope or Johnson looked good with Morris, Harris, Smith and either Baynes or Drummond. Pope and Johnson play well together. They set screens on offense and recognize and remember the set plays the team works on in practice. Both Johnson and Pope are help defenders who make the teammates they play with look much better. For sure Baynes looks better when he plays with Pope and Johnson. Why Van Gundy didn't use that combination is inexcusable especially when a nice lead evaporated under his watch in the 2nd quarter. So is Stan Van Gundy retarded or was this game a final test involving the dysfunction that takes place when Harris, Morris, and Smith are on the court together playing street basketball with no basic plan on offense while being incapable of playing help defense when they are on the court together. The reason why they can't play help defense is the fact that all three are incapable of playing individual one on one defense well. There are no meaningful rotations depending on the opponents offensive attack plan.

What is disturbing in the fact that Van Gundy didn't go back with the same unit that got him the win against the Pelicans. That group looked excited and alert and appeared to have been enjoying playing the game the right way. So then Van Gundy ignores what worked and was determined to shut that group down and stay with is combinations he envisioned would work before training camp began. This ignorant approach to tactics reminds me a lot of the field generals of WW1 who gave commands from their villas on the Atlantic coast and never visited the front where bodies were piled up like cord wood and regular troop were going mad when ordered out of their trenches to charge the enemy with no cover against machine gun fire while trying to move in thick mud. What is worse with Van Gundy is the fact that he is on the sideline near the action but does not see anything he doesn't want to see. Or he is making his final decision on who and when he will make a trade for either Harris or Morris.

My final beef is with the announcers who keep on the same theme relating to Andre Drummond's stats. Andre is leading the league with double doubles. That means nothing and both announcers know it. This team is going to continue to be a mediocure NBA team until Andre Drummond decides he wants to be the best defensive center in the league and reduces his shot attempts. One final criticism of the coaching staff is why they have not forced Drummond into this role of becoming an elite defender instead of a guy who is a slacker on defense. The coaching staff allows Andre to play with no brains or heart on defense in most games. Andre and the coaches are the only people we fans can blame. If Drummond becomes an elite defender who decides to concentrate and work on his defensive weaknesses and gives a full effort for an entire game on defense, regardless of his teammates selfishness on the offensive end, the Pistons would win most games. But as of now, Andre Drummond is content to just be a patsy for opposing teams where they attack him relentlessly game after game and year after year. Why getting Drummond on board to become an elite defender by this coaching staff is not the top priority is inexcusable. Has this coaching staff made any Piston player better this season? Does the owner ever wonder about that? Will this team end the season in the playoffs but still be a crapy NBA team that will come back next season and still be crapy? Will the Pistons make the playoffs and go out in the first round and call that success and then miss out in the draft lottery?

[Oracle]

KCP, after a career night, drops a massive 2 points with 5 assists!

Stanley, channeling his inner Michael Curry, plaster the Wolves with a big fat ZERO, zip, nada points, but he did get 2 assists.

But Morris was on FIRE

I have a LOT of complaints, but I'm going to shut my mouth and take the win for now!

BTW, SVG needs a blood test. They say he's high on Ellenson, but members of this forum believe he's just plain high period

Ad we're also in SOLE possession of the 8th seed by a nose, scratch that, by a Butt hair

[Oracle]

Hell yes... as long as he wasn't injured!

He pushes tempo and he can finish at the rim with the best of them. Capable of getting his own shot when needed.

Yeah, if he remained healthy, I'd take him, but the price would be too high for the risk!

[Oracle]

Sparma, I think you're on to something, but it's a tough nut to crack. Push Reggie too much and we know his response, but maybe there's a middle ground if SVG can navigate it.

When we need a half court game, Reggie is more suited to that than Ish, in fact, Reggie may be more valuable in the playoffs where thee isn't as much running.

But basically, I'm just guessing because if we're really good at forcing the tempo, it may be hard to stop, even in the playoffs.

I think I just talked myself out of any good reason to keep holding on to Reggie, but like Knight, he may be hard to move unless you find the right fit!

Duncan Smith supplies one of the best articles I've ever read on the Pistons.  And thanks for all of the related commentary by forumites.

What to do?  Trading Reggie J. with a hope of any kind of decent return may be unrealistic now.  Do it anyway?  Smith makes a plausible link with Reggie's known stamina issues.  If Reggie stays a reasonable response might just be to limit his minutes, maybe linked with certain performance standards.  SVG knows all this stuff, he's a known analytics junkie.  Now he needs to act on what he knows, whether as exec by biting on bullet on an uneven Reggie trade (Rubio??) or by controlling Reggie's minutes (by benching him??), linking minutes to uptempo performance.  Do something Stan!!!

[Sparma]

Duncan Smith supplies one of the best articles I've ever read on the Pistons. And thanks for all of the related commentary by forumites.

What to do? Trading Reggie J. with a hope of any kind of decent return may be unrealistic now. Do it anyway? Smith makes a plausible link with Reggie's known stamina issues. If Reggie stays a reasonable response might just be to limit his minutes, maybe linked with certain performance standards. SVG knows all this stuff, he's a known analytics junkie. Now he needs to act on what he knows, whether as exec by biting on bullet on an uneven Reggie trade (Rubio??) or by controlling Reggie's minutes (by benching him??), linking minutes to uptempo performance. Do something Stan!!!

[Oracle]

Great stuff Ballin!!!

We have the PG this team needs for now, one that can get this team running and moving into the playoffs. I don't care who people thought he used to be, I only care about who he is now, and that's the BEST PG for this team... Ish Smith!

Some people won't allow a player to grow, or more accurately... find the right situation for their talent to excel!

And Stanley is just finding his footing, moving him to starting PG staggers the mind and would have heads shaking all over the league.

That was a GREAT article, most of the reasons were discussed right here, but now I guess they'll at least start to think about it.

BTW, it's easy to see why SVG doesn't do something, but he's getting paid to make the hard, right, decisions, so no sympathy here!

Article here: http://pistonpowered.com/2017/02/03/detroit-pistons-costly-pace-offense/

A great read where the Eye Test meets Analytics in an Amazing analysis of our two point guards.  No need to consider the Rash move of putting SJ at PG.  Really??

The answer is Pace and Energy, the fuel that changes the Pistons from Bad to Good.

DBB has the best analysis  Is there a reason Stan, Freep, SNews, MLive can't break it down and get to the root of the matter.

Link: DBB Breaks down why we score better and defend better when Ish is on the court

DBB: "If Jackson’s stamina issues (or potential lingering knee issues) are at the root of why the Pistons’ offense bogs down when he’s on the floor, the organization may have tough decisions on their hands. After all, Jackson forced himself into a trade away from the Oklahoma City Thunder two years ago because he believed himself a starting NBA point guard, and the Pistons could be playing a dangerous game if consider moving him to the bench.

While Reggie Jackson is certainly a starting-caliber NBA point guard, if he doesn’t address these glaring concerns which are literally grinding the offense to a halt, perhaps he shouldn’t be the starting point guard for the Detroit Pistons."

[Oracle]

So if the coach is encouraging such behavior by Pope and Jackson, how can this owner not fire this coach now? Who in hell would want to play on any team if the coach tells too players that they have the ?GREEN LIGHT" to shoot the ball whenever they have the urge?

You might want to check the reasons professionals do things before making sweeping comments.

A FiveThirtyEight article last week noted Caldwell-Pope and point guard Reggie Jackson are among the few players averaging more than two such shots per game.

The numbers still hold up a week later. Jackson is shooting 36.2%; Caldwell-Pope is at 36% - slightly more than acceptable numbers.

The article said it’s evidence how Golden State Warriors star Stephen Curry is impacting the game. He takes nearly five such shots per game, hitting just under 36%.

“If you can be 35 (percent) or higher, that’s a pretty good shot,” Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy said last week. “It has (grown) because people are trying to figure out ways to play pick-and-rolls and keep the ball out of the paint and things.

[deusXango]

"If Jackson can’t or won’t get the Detroit Pistons out in transition, there is some need to ask why. If it’s stylistic or schematic, the Pistons need to knock it off. Relying on inefficient postups and isolation plays that don’t get you to the free throw line is not how you win in the NBA in 2017. Considering the fact that Stan Van Gundy is aware of this fact and is on record urging this team to get out and run, we can eliminate schematics."-Fanside

The hell you say! Why is the coach, coaching staff, president & GM, along with the owner, media and most fans stone-walling for this player? He's only been a Piston long enough to cash in on "smoke and mirrors." He happened to be here when the acquisition of Tobias Harris (constantly mentioned in trade talks) energized the Pistons charge to the 8th seed. IMHO, his skillset or production is not great enough to warrant him dominating the ball as he does, and ignoring TEAMmate's. WTF is going on?

[BallinD]

A great read where the Eye Test meets Analytics in an Amazing analysis of our two point guards.  No need to consider the Rash move of putting SJ at PG.  Really??

The answer is Pace and Energy, the fuel that changes the Pistons from Bad to Good.

DBB has the best analysis  Is there a reason Stan, Freep, SNews, MLive can't break it down and get to the root of the matter.

Link: DBB Breaks down why we score better and defend better when Ish is on the court

DBB: "If Jackson’s stamina issues (or potential lingering knee issues) are at the root of why the Pistons’ offense bogs down when he’s on the floor, the organization may have tough decisions on their hands. After all, Jackson forced himself into a trade away from the Oklahoma City Thunder two years ago because he believed himself a starting NBA point guard, and the Pistons could be playing a dangerous game if consider moving him to the bench.

While Reggie Jackson is certainly a starting-caliber NBA point guard, if he doesn’t address these glaring concerns which are literally grinding the offense to a halt, perhaps he shouldn’t be the starting point guard for the Detroit Pistons."

[cool breeze]

Don raised a point that I'm in favor of giving some support to because it has more merit than we realize; start Stanley at PG! Most will overlook the benefits of having a starting backcourt of Johnson and KCP because they're tired of the relentless "jockeying" of Johnson by Don but, it will give us something we haven't had since SVG has been here...a well balanced, defensive, starting backcourt. Imagine, "The Pit Bulls" 2.0!! They'll also make Drummonds interior defense look better. Our bench scoring becomes more potent with Bullock joining Harris. Addition by subtraction. Get rid of Reggie.

Since no one has any faith in Ish Smith running the Pistons offense, until we get a real PG in here, and SVG seems to be "brain blind" when it comes to Beno Udrih, why not try fitting Stanley in the backcourt as our PG? We've just got a taste of what the Pistons backcourt defense could look like with Johnson and KCP. With this TEAM we don't need a ball dominate, high scoring, PG, but rather one who uses his head and is TEAM oriented. Most people talk about SVG's past glory, using the "1 in 4 out", but he's constantly talking about a defensive TEAM (Detroit's staple when we win championships); why not pull for what has proven to work and listen to the man? He damn sure haven't stocked this TEAM with long range, competent, shooters.

If somehow Reggie can be a part of a 3-4 team trade where we end up with a hand full of draft picks (essentially dumping his salary) and trade Baynes, we'd have enough to resign KCP without going over the CAP. IMHO Reggie is taking up Ellenson's rotation spot and personally, I don't think this TEAM can have too many highly skilled big men; I'd rather have Henry coming off the bench than Reggie starting. Bullock needs more PT than he's been getting and Reggie's absence will make that possible....plus Bullock plays better defense than Reggie, as does Stanley.

By the trade deadline I'd love to see SVG/Bower work the magic it'll take to resign KCP, rid the TEAM of Jackson (a talented combo guard), Baynes (an appealing center) and possibly Hilliard and Gbinije (necessary to facilitate the desired trades). I'm an armchair GM, like many fans, so that's my 2 cents.

dX I am glad someone agrees with me on the idea that the Pistons should scrap this lame notion that the team can't function without a ball dominating point guard who can't hold his own with any current NBA starter on the defensive end. I think that Johnson is a perfect fit to have the role of a ball distributing guard who can play tough defense. It doesn't matter who brings the ball up the court either. Pope or Johnson could dribble up the court and make the first pass. Just saying that makes me feel good. MAKE THE FIRST PASS IN THE HALF COURT OFFENSE IS ESSENTIAL TO CREATE GOOD TEAM CHEMISTRY. Point guards who dribble up the court and find their own shot right away especially if that shot is a long ball usually destroys the entire idea of having 5 players on the same page who want to do the right thing and play the right way. However, I read something yesterday stating that Jackson and Pope both have a green light to jack up a 3 pointer anytime they want. It is difficult to believe that coach Stan Van Gundy would ever say that to any player. If he did how does that make Harris feel? In my opinion most of the problems Detroit has on the defensive end other than certain players making most of the money who have extremely low skill sets relating to playing defense, is the fact that too many players are doing their own thing such as jacking up 3 point shots early in the shot clock. So if the coach is encouraging such behavior by Pope and Jackson, how can this owner not fire this coach now? Who in hell would want to play on any team if the coach tells too players that they have the ?GREEN LIGHT" to shoot the ball whenever they have the urge? Being that we have been witnessing too many players not making the extra pass to open players closer to the basket and just firing up long low percentage off balance shots and missing most of the time, would the head coach actually have the guts to make the GREEN LIGHT STATEMENT? If this is true than I understand fully why most of the players really don't give a crap and only show up to get their fat paychecks. This explains why the team chemistry is so bad and the defensive effort is so low. If a coach makes that statement, then the players will say, screw you coach we won't even bother to set any screens or run the half court offense that we practice so much. No I can't believe that Stan Van Gundy would endorse the GREEN LIGHT CONCEPT for certain selected players. But Reggie has said that he is going to shoot a lot so his team can win. Does Reggie care about his teammates and their futures?

If I were the owner and had ever played any organized sport in my entire life, hearing this GREEN LIGHT nonsense would make my blood boil. No wonder Pope is pulling up and taking that low percentage 3 point shot instead of going in for an easy layup. No wonder Reggie is not bothering to make one pass after he gets past half court and fires away. This GREEN LIGHT CONCEPT then spreads to the other players who after all have guaranteed contracts. If the coach doesn't want the team to play like a team then why should Morris not fire away like he does at times. Just shoot it guys. And who gives a crap about playing defense. Let the other team score quickly so we can let the shots fly. The fans will love it.

It doesn't appear that Stan Van Gundy will go for starting and playing two guards who play unselfishly and play tough defense. Stan will go back to the smoke and mirrors and provide entertainment for all those fans who have no idea how the game should be played. Stan has big contracts he can't move. He must make the GREEN LIGHT CONCEPT work. I sure wish that ZEKE would take over Stan's job either as the President/GM or the head coach. This should have happened before Van Gundy was ever hired.

[deusXango]

Don raised a point that I'm in favor of giving some support to because it has more merit than we realize; start Stanley at PG! Most will overlook the benefits of having a starting backcourt of Johnson and KCP because they're tired of the relentless "jockeying" of Johnson by Don but, it will give us something we haven't had since SVG has been here...a well balanced, defensive, starting backcourt. Imagine, "The Pit Bulls" 2.0!! They'll also make Drummonds interior defense look better. Our bench scoring becomes more potent with Bullock joining Harris. Addition by subtraction. Get rid of Reggie.

Since no one has any faith in Ish Smith running the Pistons offense, until we get a real PG in here, and SVG seems to be "brain blind" when it comes to Beno Udrih, why not try fitting Stanley in the backcourt as our PG? We've just got a taste of what the Pistons backcourt defense could look like with Johnson and KCP. With this TEAM we don't need a ball dominate, high scoring, PG, but rather one who uses his head and is TEAM oriented. Most people talk about SVG's past glory, using the "1 in 4 out", but he's constantly talking about a defensive TEAM (Detroit's staple when we win championships); why not pull for what has proven to work and listen to the man? He damn sure haven't stocked this TEAM with long range, competent, shooters.

If somehow Reggie can be a part of a 3-4 team trade where we end up with a hand full of draft picks (essentially dumping his salary) and trade Baynes, we'd have enough to resign KCP without going over the CAP. IMHO Reggie is taking up Ellenson's rotation spot and personally, I don't think this TEAM can have too many highly skilled big men; I'd rather have Henry coming off the bench than Reggie starting. Bullock needs more PT than he's been getting and Reggie's absence will make that possible....plus Bullock plays better defense than Reggie, as does Stanley.

By the trade deadline I'd love to see SVG/Bower work the magic it'll take to resign KCP, rid the TEAM of Jackson (a talented combo guard), Baynes (an appealing center) and possibly Hilliard and Gbinije (necessary to facilitate the desired trades). I'm an armchair GM, like many fans, so that's my 2 cents.

[deusXango]

KCP makes absolutely no money, so why in the world would we trade him NOW???

Remember the last time you made this arguement what happened (See Greg Monroe)  

Monroe could walk, KCP can't, we control his destiny.

How and why does sorry ass Greg Monroe's name continually come up on this forum, particularly given the gamble he took to get out of Detroit? What did he accomplish while he was here, and what did he teach Drummond before his departure? Why couldn't he co-exist with Josh Smith, and where was his leadership skills? He's now being paid more than he could possibly be worth to the Pistons, God bless him, so why are references of any type being made about Greg Monroe? Why not Austin Daye, Jason Maxiell, or any of the other losers from those dark days? Oh, Wise jokingly suggested we bring him back, but................that was a joke wasn't it?

[WTF]

KCP makes absolutely no money, so why in the world would we trade him NOW???

Remember the last time you made this arguement what happened (See Greg Monroe)  

Monroe could walk, KCP can't, we control his destiny.

Not really while KCP is a restricted FA we could be force into a sign and trade or simply be force to let him sign elsewhere. You just painted that ugly picture of us having the 3rd highest salaries in the league there is a ton of scenario where we don't necessarily come out good we can over pay, or KCP offer is just way to high to match or the S&T options sucks.

SVG could be force let him go and seek other alternatives. I'm not sure just how much SVG is truly committed to signing KCP he played that love game with Moose and almost screwed that up royally. He's already foolishly committed to both Reggie and Andre and might not be able to move either IMO SVG values Harris a lot more than KCP and the way Reggie and Andre been playing and their flaws he's not moving either any time soon. Simply not enough money to work with here not even in a sign and trade unless a miracle happens.

[Oracle]

KCP makes absolutely no money, so why in the world would we trade him NOW???

Remember the last time you made this arguement what happened (See Greg Monroe)  

Monroe could walk, KCP can't, we control his destiny.

[WTF]

Okay I say this all the time in numerous ways and it bares saying again. "Just because things are doesn't make them right" WE have sacrificed so much of the essence and true nature of the game because we have sold out to $$$$$.

Let Barkley speak, let him scream loud about the mess the NBA has become I wish more of the old cats did. Just like I want SVG and Pop screaming to the heavens for the sake of humanity so should the players scream for the sake of the game. Maybe once all these old cats start screaming then maybe the fans will follow suit.

You know the money the owners are paying these players wouldn't be so bad if it didn't resulted in the monkey show and circus we see every night. I don't think Barkley really cares either so much about the money it's more about what we're getting in return as fans. I mean really pay the players all you want just don't pay them for nothing.

It's obvious the return we get is far less than what we goy in the past, the fundaments of many players sucks, they have no drive and desire to win yet alone put it the work it takes in. Barkley is not hating on the players but he certainly hates the game (game of basketball) as many of us do. I use to live and breathe Pistons Basketball wouldn't miss a game either in person or TV. Nowadays I forget the dumbasses are on TV or just don't care to watch as I once did.

We have a center making 22 million as season with a **** loads of flaws, you tell me how many flaws Zeke had making the money he made in his day I don't think we had a player making 10 million a season in 2004 except maybe Sheed and they worked fu@king hard. Seeing these lazy fu@ks night in and night out making the money they do turns my stomach

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