Monroe Monroe Monroe.

[WTF]

I wasn't going to attack Monroe this season because of his current contract status and pending free agency. I make it no secret that I would happy to see him gone and replace come this summer.

DX is correct Monroe is a vet young or not but there should have been major improvement of his game both defensively and with his midrange game in 5 seasons period!

What I don't understand is how easily many that support the idea of keeping him keep ignoring other obvious flaws in his game should be an issue at all like his consistent trend of being inconsistent. Surprisingly his stat totals seem reasonable until you see how they are truly accumulated over a course of a season. Example: Monroe will run a string of 5 sh!tty games with sub-par stats then pull off some 20-20 games against some under-sized PF after getting his ass handed to him the previous 5 games. Pistons fans are so freaking gullible that they'll eat the sh!t up and forget how week his ass been in the games.

The truth is our record and struggle is what it is because of those crappy performances of Monroe's more times than not. The other thing that gets little notice as well is that more times than not when his getting one of those 20-20 games it usually not that impactful largely because they're garbage stats but again fans get sucked in.

There are some many losses where if we had a PF that can be minimum a threat from 10 feet out and a slightly above average defender we could have won those games and likely be above .500.

Here's what going to happen even if we were to resign his ass below the max, the same fans that support his ass now will be the same ones still waiting after 8 season in for improved defensive and improved mid-range game. The guy is lazy have no drive to be a winner and it's not going to change nor is this an issue of being young it is a flaw in his character.

[WTF]

In the presser on the Rondo incident, Carlisle says something like: "How many time do I need to answer the same question?"
Response by one of the journalists: "Once.  You haven't answered it."
Cut to Carlisle glowering.
These are different days media wise.

The media folks are a bunch of clowns, the casual fan base is too damn busy, and neither the fan base or media should be involving themselves in this for the sole purpose of gossip, and premature judgment of either Rick or Rondo.

All of this stuff isn't news especially a coach and a player in a heated discussion. Every NBA Superstar I can remember n the past has had words with a coach in some shape and form. Hell Chauncey and LB had words, Magic, MJ and Bird had words with coaches, Big Ben and Flip, Sheed and whomever we all seen this before so why I it such a big deal.

When the media folks stop sucking the dicks of social media and the casual fans, they go back to reporting on real stuff. I don't like it that players like Rondo, Josh, and Cousin or whomever they elect to be the bad guy that week get stuff over-blown and their character attacked. Carlisle should have simply said next question and moved on oppose to trying to say that the issue was internal and that it was handle.

I really hate KD pulled back on his remarks about the media and wish more players stood up and spoke out. Sadly they bring a lot of this on themselves because of their participation or non-participation with social media. I think the league needs to restrict the question the media are allowed to ask and limit the use of social media of players.

[Oracle]

Greg is still afraid to shoot the GOT DAMN Basketball!! He was by far, the WEAKEST LINK the other night.

For me it comes down to this. Can Detroit allow G.Monroe to walk away without anything? In my opinion, NO!

Take Monroe and add A 18 feet jumper to his game and I'm OK with he and Drummonds for the next 10+ years. Van Gundy will make sure he has A shooting 4 to come off the bench in those Kevin Love situations. I'm not worried about it.

Is Monreo A max guy in Detroit? NO! Is he A max guy some place else around the NBA like NY? Yes.. He is A max player.

So Van Gundy might have to pay up because Jackson is looking for close to max money as well......

DX says Monroe is a vet! Well if he's a vet, he's a young vet, but that's not the point.

I agree with Phillip, Monroe is a MAX player, but again, that's not the point. The point for us is will we pay him the max, and the answer to that is no, let somebody else do that.

The bad news is if it's the Knicks, we're in deep yogurt because they don't need us to do it, and we would get no compensation at all in the deal, and even if they did, they don't have anything we likely want! IMO, Monroe doesn't want the Knicks anyway, so maybe we get lucky!

Back to the subject!

The definition of a team not being ready to win it all is that they have holes, and players that have flaws in their game. On any given night, a team can pick any of our guys and have a field day exposing their game!

It's important to point out the flaws, but to then translate that to the full career of the player is a huge mistake. It's hard to improve your game during the season, and Monroe did get better in the offseason. He can hit midrange shots near the FT line, but his confidence in them is low.

We should be glad that he doesn't want to do things he isn't good at, at least we say we want that from players(see Josh Smith), but when they do it we criticize them?

The bottom line is that it isn't what Monroe can't do, or what he may grow to do, keeping him at this point is strictly a financial issue.

If we can keep him at a reasonable rate, he stays. If not, we're hoping for a S&T to ease the pain... it's as simple as that, IMO!

Sidebar: Will this path work for Drummond?

They're trying to get Dre to be an offensive weapon AND a defensive wizard, and, IMO, neither is working! On a nightly basis, since I have league pass, I see far less talented centers performing way better than Dre with about the same level of experience.

This way may work, but I do wonder if they should just focus on one end of the floor first(preferably defense) and master it before trying to do everything at once.

Just saying...

[Phil-Good]

Greg is still afraid to shoot the GOT DAMN Basketball!! He was by far, the WEAKEST LINK the other night.

For me it comes down to this. Can Detroit allow G.Monroe to walk away without anything? In my opinion, NO!

Take Monroe and add A 18 feet jumper to his game and I'm OK with he and Drummonds for the next 10+ years. Van Gundy will make sure he has A shooting 4 to come off the bench in those Kevin Love situations. I'm not worried about it.

Is Monreo A max guy in Detroit? NO! Is he A max guy some place else around the NBA like NY? Yes.. He is A max player.

So Van Gundy might have to pay up because Jackson is looking for close to max money as well......

[cool breeze]

Until Monroe develops that mid range jumper and has confidence in it, we won't be effective against the better teams.

Cleveland literally gave Monroe 8-10 feet jumpers all night long and he was afraid to take it, preferring to go against people already packing the paint to stop him!

Even a center has to be able to take those shots once in awhile, however, I do have hope.

Backcourt: WOW!!! The improved play of KCP since Jackson's arrival, which FINALLY put an end to him having to cover big guards and his own man to cover up SVG's pint sized guards is paying dividends big time!

KCP now has the energy to play both ends aggressively, but now with full energy! Having two high energy, athletic guards is going to be a huge payoff for this team going forward.

I've said it before and I'll continue to stick to my guns, Monroe doesn't deserve a max or near max contract, and if he and his agent decide to threaten SVG with walking away, let him! Merc, just off the cuff, summarized the still existing shortcomings of Monroe; Monroe is a veteran for God's sake!!!

In case no ones noticed, Jackson is Drummond's new best friend and KCP is benefitting more than anyone from his presence on the team...that's our core group. All we need for next years campaign is that veteran PF Oracle was talking up and an elite SF, in other words, we need a talented set of forwards that can compliment our core group....ON A CONSISTENT BASIS!!!!!!

I was full of hope relating to how the Pistons would look with Monroe and Drummond next season but after the Cleveland game where the game plan targeted Greg Monroe as a weak offensive and defensive player, I now have my doubts that he has the right stuff to kick his game up to a respectable level especially on defense. Cleveland challenged every shot he attempted and Cav players seemed to always come out the winner.

dX you are correct on this. Monroe is a vet player. Yet he is still a follower. When Detroit really sucked badly last season, Monroe never stepped up and played harder than everyone else. He never dominated but always manages to look OK on the stat sheet. The problem is the Pistons do not have Labron James. If you have a Labron James, then you use other teams as farm teams and pluck out their best players somehow and create a great team overnight. How in hell did Cleveland get that big center who out played all of Detroit's big men? How did they get Love? If Monroe leaves to his number one destination, New Orleans, then who will be out there with size who can play better? Maybe we get lucky in the draft.

My biggest fear of signing Monroe to a huge contract is the thought that he will pull a Rodney Stuckey and just show up for the next 3 years. This is his contract year and time is running out to show other teams how great he can be. Other GMs were watching Greg play this last game against Cleveland and most likely they now have many doubts about his value.

I credit Joe Dumars for drafting Pope. Pope and Jackson could become an outstanding backcourt to be feared around the league. They both have amazing quickness. If Jackson will become the defender he is capable of becoming, this is going to be fun with Jackson, Pope and Drummond expanding their games moving forward. I don't that Monroe has that edge to his personality where he is willing to do anything to get better. Whatever happens, Monroe is going to be making big money somewhere. I believe that after the Cleveland game, Stan Van Gundy has his doubts about the upside of Greg Monroe. We should never judge anyone on one game, but Monroe was for sure one of the weak links that Labron's army tried to disarm.

[Sparma]

In the presser on the Rondo incident, Carlisle says something like: "How many time do I need to answer the same question?"
Response by one of the journalists: "Once. You haven't answered it."
Cut to Carlisle glowering.
These are different days media wise.

[Oracle]

First you got your main event, and then the undercard

Cousins vs Randolph...


Rondo vs Carlisle...

[deusXango]

Until Monroe develops that mid range jumper and has confidence in it, we won't be effective against the better teams.

Cleveland literally gave Monroe 8-10 feet jumpers all night long and he was afraid to take it, preferring to go against people already packing the paint to stop him!

Even a center has to be able to take those shots once in awhile, however, I do have hope.

Backcourt: WOW!!! The improved play of KCP since Jackson's arrival, which FINALLY put an end to him having to cover big guards and his own man to cover up SVG's pint sized guards is paying dividends big time!

KCP now has the energy to play both ends aggressively, but now with full energy! Having two high energy, athletic guards is going to be a huge payoff for this team going forward.

I've said it before and I'll continue to stick to my guns, Monroe doesn't deserve a max or near max contract, and if he and his agent decide to threaten SVG with walking away, let him! Merc, just off the cuff, summarized the still existing shortcomings of Monroe; Monroe is a veteran for God's sake!!!

In case no ones noticed, Jackson is Drummond's new best friend and KCP is benefitting more than anyone from his presence on the team...that's our core group. All we need for next years campaign is that veteran PF Oracle was talking up and an elite SF, in other words, we need a talented set of forwards that can compliment our core group....ON A CONSISTENT BASIS!!!!!!

[cool breeze]

Sad news - Derrick Rose has meniscus tear of right knee; season in jeopardy

Bad break for the Bulls and Rose. He will be back but for sure will not play as fearlessly as he did before the ACL problem. He is set financially unlike many high school and college basketball players who have gone down with those dreadful knee injuries. Bad news for basketball fans who love to see good teams play against each other in the playoffs. Cleveland might have an easy path to the finals but anything can still happen.

[merc]

Rondo was, is, and always will be a jerk - Mavs suspend Rondo one game for detrimental conduct

The red flags were out there for Rondo... what often amazes me is how quickly talent can turn in either direction... 2 or 3 years ago Rondo & Rose were considered cream of the crop... now you could have either for a low 1st rounder.
This alone makes me nervous about putting a large amount of eggs in any basket... especially Monroe (ye who can not defend the perimeter, play in transition or draw defenders from the paint).

On a different topic I think the plan should be to promise Jackson the keys to cadillac.. you are the #1 PG going forward... get the contract signed and go from there... trades & injuries are always part of the final decision.

[Oracle]

Rondo was, is, and always will be a jerk - Mavs suspend Rondo one game for detrimental conduct

[Oracle]

Sad news - Derrick Rose has meniscus tear of right knee; season in jeopardy

[Oracle]

Sure Love went off on him, but that wasn't the problem.

Until Monroe develops that mid range jumper and has confidence in it, we won't be effective against the better teams.

Cleveland literally gave Monroe 8-10 feet jumpers all night long and he was afraid to take it, preferring to go against people already packing the paint to stop him!

Even a center has to be able to take those shots once in awhile, however, I do have hope.

Monroe improved his FT shooting, and the next step is that midrange jumper.

Backcourt: WOW!!! The improved play of KCP since Jackson's arrival, which FINALLY put an end to him having to cover big guards and his own man to cover up SVG's pint sized guards is paying dividends big time!

KCP now has the energy to play both ends aggressively, but now with full energy! Having two high energy, athletic guards is going to be a huge payoff for this team going forward.

We have a 4 headed monster brewing in the "D"! Two potent starting guards and two developing bigs!

[cool breeze]

Something is happening and I love it! My positive thoughts involved this new EDGE our Pistons have acquired this season despite all the turmoil relating to player movement to and from our team. The chemistry seems better than at any time in many years. Our players never gave up last night and battled until the last second of the game. Shots didn't fall and many mistakes were made on offense and defense but the energy level and "WILL TO WIN" was great. Cleveland played playoff style basketball and they had to work extremely hard to break our team with their defense. Yet our guys didn't back down or give up.

Cleveland committed many fouls that the refs ignored in the 2nd half which is par for the course on any team Labron James plays on. It was good to hear the fans in the Palace get on the refs. My gut feeling after this game was the opposite of my feelings after Labron James took apart the Billups led super outstanding team at the Palace that night years ago when a young Labron James went nuts scoring at will and single handedly kicking ass and taking names going inside and outside. Remember that game which was the turning point for that Piston team which crashed and burned soon after? I felt that game marked the end much like the night when the Bulls beat the Bad Boys to end that run of greatness. Regarding the Pistons last championship team it was the Heat with Wade who kicked our butts and then Labron had his turn and we felt the pain of falling off the cliff into the bowels of hell. Watching Jason Maxiell start at power forward in a playoff situation is our last memory of seeing our team play after the regular season and that was a pitiful sight losing to Labron's first stint in Cleveland. We fans have been living in this hell for many years while the likes of Labron James led teams and other mega star loaded teams took all the glory. But now I feel the Pistons have reached bottom and are building something special again and they are doing it quickly under Stan Van Gundy.

This Piston team is really young. I am sure that the Cavs had no idea that our Pistons would fight them so hard. They got together at halftime and perhaps played the hardest they have played all season. Cleveland hit almost every outside shot and yet our Pistons kept coming back. Most NBA teams would have given up, accepted a good ass kicking, and would have lost by 20 points. If our big men can step it up 25% and gain more confidence on both ends of the floor, the 2nd unit can somehow hold their own, and Pope and Jackson shoot the ball and play at this never say die level Detroit has a good chance of winning against anybody.

Size does matter and Monroe and Drummond need to show the world that they are not going to take getting their asses kicked anymore and are going to do something about it. I think both Monroe and Drummond lack the mental part relating to game preparation. How much mental work are they doing? Do they know how to mentally prepare for games? Have they ever done it? For instance, the game plan was for Monroe to stay home on defense knowing how deadly Cleveland's All Star power forward is from beyond the 3 point line. Stan Van Gundy must have been steaming inside. Monroe's assignment was to STAY HOME ON HIS MAN. Monroe ignored the game plan and instead tried to switch off and help when help wasn't needed. The ball goes back to Greg's man who drills another 3 point shot. Most coaches can live with one or two brain farts but when you do it 15 times in one game, something is wrong mentally. Monroe is not a rookie! All you have to do as a player is listen to what the coach wants from you before the game and think about how you are going to execute what he wants. Tell yourself that you won't be made a fool of in this game like past games. You will stay on your damn man who is making a fool of you. Yet Greg never got it. Cleveland exploited Greg's mental weaknesses. They also know that Monroe doesn't jump more than 2 inches off the ground when he shoots the ball most of the time. So Cleveland's focus was to challenge Monroe on every shot attempt. Monroe had his shot blocked in the first half and never recovered. Welcome to playoff style NBA basketball Greg. I think Monroe's issues can be corrected. It is a matter of character. Other teams Detroit will play have now watched how Cleveland turned Monroe into a weak baby cub. He let his team down last night even more than Drummond did with his inept free throw shooting. Several players had that good edge that they were not going to back down, but Monroe didn't have that mental toughness. He played like a child mentally and he knows it. Greg dove to the floor at times and fought for the ball but his mental weaknesses were clearly exploited on defense and offense. Monroe needs to dig down deep and somehow make a huge leap forward with his mental approach to playing basketball. I think with all the positive players around him now, he can get a lot better. If not, then I am sure Van Gundy will move on from Greg Monroe. Greg could be part of something really special being involved in a huge turnaround and playing before a packed crowd at the Palace that will be coming soon. It is up to him. Will he stay out late at night and drink too much alcohol or will he make his fight for greatness with hard work? Come on Greg! You can do it! Meanwhile Drummond has the will and if he gets it in his head that he can do anything he wants to do on defense with more hard work, he can be a monster every team will fear. Shoot 300 foul shots everyday please. Don't be a patsy and the butt of jokes around the league. Through hard work Andre can step up to the foul line with confidence. Without the hard work, Drummond will be known as the player who let his teammates down at the foul line. His technique looks good. He just lacks the confidence which comes with extreme practice dedication and determination. This is exciting stuff. We will witness how these individual stories unfold. Will the players we pull for come through and nudge themselves closer to perfection with hard work? Or will they just join the long list of other gifted players who never reached their potential???????? It is their choice. If not, then it is up to Stan Van Gundy to move on and find those who have that extra edge.

[Oracle]

Actually last night Prince did a good job on Labron. James scored a lot off forced turnovers. Prince blocked Labron's shot in the paint in the 2nd half. It would be great to get a young stud playing the 3 position for sure and I am sure that will happen down the line. But the main reason why Detroit lost this last game was because our two Trees, Monroe and Drummond got their collective asses kicked especially Monroe. How many times did Greg get stuffed last night? And what really bothered me was Greg's play in the 2nd half in the half court offense. Dinwiddie would get the ball down to Greg with the shot clock winding down. Instead of turning to face the basket, Monroe looked frightened and passed the ball back to Dinwiddie who was closely guarded. As Kelser finally said, Monroe needs to shoot that 8 foot jump shot. He never did maybe because he was worried he would get his shot blocked. Relating to Drummond's misfortune at the foul line making only one foul shot last night, that wasn't what bothered me. Drummond was the biggest and strongest player on the court. However, he was AWOL in the 2nd half on defense. Drummond needed to make a statement at least once with a powerful block or a hard foul. it never happened. He was always out of position and looked tired on defense. Cleveland had their way with our big men and it should have been really embarrassing to both Monroe and Drummond. But on the positive side, both big men really gave a good effort even though they came up short. We live or die according to the whims of Monroe and Drummond. That is a fact. If their defense doesn't get a lot better, Detroit will be just another fringe team. But they both have improved greatly from where they were last season.

This is the truth, and IMO, against most teams you will see them play better.

I remember what Sheed said when he came here. He said that he was excited to play with Big Ben Wallace, and the results are, as they say, history!

Great players inspire great play, and if one of our bigs was a seasoned, confident big man, still in his prime, the other youngster would mature more rapidly.

Drummonds excuse is obvious, but Monroe's excuse is less so. Unfortunately, Monroe hasn't has a mentor to show him the way, in fact, Monroe may have had negative experience, and he's learning just now how to win along with Drummond.

I'm not trying to make excuses for him on everything, but IMO, you need to have a bit more patience with big guys, because once the light goes off, you really have something.

This will be most true of Drummond! As Don said, once he wakes up and realizes that he's the biggest, baddest mofo on the court, is the day he stops letting these inferior players get away with the stuff they're doing.

Once Shaq realized that under Phil Jackson, he walked on the court like he owned it... and he did!

[cool breeze]

An understandable loss to a possible finals contender...can't remember when our defense let us down in the second half, but we only scored 31 points in the second half?! WTF happened?

PG: Jackson got his second start and in 35 minutes scored 22 points, dished 9 assists, 8 rebounds, and only turned the ball over 2 times.
SF: Prince got his first snooty start and scored the standard 7 points, with 4 rebounds, in 31 minutes, but played solid defense for an old guy.

It's beginning to appear that there's only one position of concern in our starting lineup and that's SF, PG is solid. Is picking a dynamic SF SVG's Achilles heal? As great a coach as Van Gundy is, he can't fill that position with anything other than old men and excuses.

Actually last night Prince did a good job on Labron. James scored a lot off forced turnovers. Prince blocked Labron's shot in the paint in the 2nd half. It would be great to get a young stud playing the 3 position for sure and I am sure that will happen down the line. But the main reason why Detroit lost this last game was because our two Trees, Monroe and Drummond got their collective asses kicked especially Monroe. How many times did Greg get stuffed last night? And what really bothered me was Greg's play in the 2nd half in the half court offense. Dinwiddie would get the ball down to Greg with the shot clock winding down. Instead of turning to face the basket, Monroe looked frightened and passed the ball back to Dinwiddie who was closely guarded. As Kelser finally said, Monroe needs to shoot that 8 foot jump shot. He never did maybe because he was worried he would get his shot blocked. Relating to Drummond's misfortune at the foul line making only one foul shot last night, that wasn't what bothered me. Drummond was the biggest and strongest player on the court. However, he was AWOL in the 2nd half on defense. Drummond needed to make a statement at least once with a powerful block or a hard foul. it never happened. He was always out of position and looked tired on defense. Cleveland had their way with our big men and it should have been really embarrassing to both Monroe and Drummond. But on the positive side, both big men really gave a good effort even though they came up short. We live or die according to the whims of Monroe and Drummond. That is a fact. If their defense doesn't get a lot better, Detroit will be just another fringe team. But they both have improved greatly from where they were last season.

[deusXango]

An understandable loss to a possible finals contender...can't remember when our defense let us down in the second half, but we only scored 31 points in the second half?! WTF happened?

PG: Jackson got his second start and in 35 minutes scored 22 points, dished 9 assists, 8 rebounds, and only turned the ball over 2 times.
SF: Prince got his first snooty start and scored the standard 7 points, with 4 rebounds, in 31 minutes, but played solid defense for an old guy.

It's beginning to appear that there's only one position of concern in our starting lineup and that's SF, PG is solid. Is picking a dynamic SF SVG's Achilles heal? As great a coach as Van Gundy is, he can't fill that position with anything other than old men and excuses.

[Sparma]

(That game got ugly.  James for MVP anyone?  The Pistons scored 14 in a row with James out.)

What I'll remember about Prince:
1) The block against Reggie. (And he had a beauty of a block against LeBron early on tonight.)
2) Him, finally, coming on for Curry against Orlando, leading a 3-1 comeback.
3) His being part of the four teammates All-Star appearance.
4) His closeness with Chauncey and Rip.
5) His B.B. intelligence.
6) His Sour Prince episodes.  #6 threatens to move up.  I understand his disappointment at not being bought out by Boston, but why oh why does that stuff linger?  At half time, when asked directly about his feelings about playing in Detroit again, he pointedly ignored the question, instead offering platitudes about the game.  I thought we'd moved beyond the anger about being traded without notification (I wonder what % of players are notified in advance?) and the buy out frustration.

Prince was my second favorite of that generation of players, after Sheed, but good grief!

[Oracle]

It happens, but they've had time to work out their chemistry issues, and we need that time!

Jackson isn't where Jennings was with that pick and roll, but it took Jennings a while to get it right as well!

This loss does hurt us in the standings, but you can't win them all.

BTW, Cleveland has been wiping teams out, and we really put up a fight, but like I said, the better "Team" won tonight!

[Sparma]

Thanks Oracle. What I tried to block was the list of all the different stats that are being tracked, but they got crunched together. It's an impressive table. What interested me is they'll track positioning, distance, and speed (as had been happening in soccer for a while). They also keep track of things like contested rebounds, which presumably moves our Andre down a notch.

Let's hope for the Beard's MVP candidacy that voters don't take these defensive stats very seriously.

Stats used to evaluate players is shaky at best, but those same stats can and should be used BY players to improve their game, it's called negative feedback!

Here's the stats they're quoting,


Mike Dunleavy & Jordan Crawford are the two best wing defenders??? OMG, have they watched those two play on the court???

Jarrett Jack is the 3rd worst back court defender? Wow!

I don't know if Meeks is the worst, but I could see how his being undersized would contribute to players shooting over him, he's really small for a SG!

[Oracle]

Looks like the Pistons signed Shawne Williams

This is why I love SVG, committed to diversity!

BTW, who is she?

[Oracle]

Stats used to evaluate players is shaky at best, but those same stats can and should be used BY players to improve their game, it's called negative feedback!

Here's the stats they're quoting,


Mike Dunleavy & Jordan Crawford are the two best wing defenders??? OMG, have they watched those two play on the court???

Jarrett Jack is the 3rd worst back court defender? Wow!

I don't know if Meeks is the worst, but I could see how his being undersized would contribute to players shooting over him, he's really small for a SG!

[merc]

Looks like the Pistons signed Shawne Williams

[Sparma]

Evidently stats can track all the stuff listed befow (in a garbled way!). Tim Thielke at PP responds to a Grantland piece (which I haven't read yet) on the STATS stuff.

One finding: Jodie Meeks' a terrible defender.

"All aspects of the data collection process are completely non-intrusive to game action. Player Team Ball Speed/Distance Avg, max, instant speed Total, possession distance Speed/Distance Avg, max, instant speed Total, possession distance True pace of play Speed Avg, max, instant speed Shots, passes, blocks Shooting FG% by location Distance on shots Location tendencies TOP - shot vs. pass Shot logs Catch and Shoot Shooting FG% by location Distance on shots Location tendencies TOP - shoot vs. pass Shot logs Catch and shoot Trajectory Player arc comparison on makes vs. misses Goaltending accuracy Passing % of passes led to assists Total, avg. # of passes FG% based on passer Pass distance Passing # of passes on play type Total, avg. # of passes FG% based on passer Pass Distance Movement Automated pass, dribble, shot counter Connect # of passes, dribbles with play results FG% on shots off dribble Defense FG% based on defender distance/location Exact defensive spacing Response to exact player tendencies Defense Tendencies/exact position and results Exact defensive spacing Closest defender Defense TOP breakdown by play and total game Connect TOP to results Rebounding Contested rebounds Rebound vicinity Rebound % Rebounding Contested rebounds Rebound vicinity Rebound % Touch Type Elbow Wing Paint Post Drives Touch Type Elbow Wing Paint Post Drives - See more at: http://www.stats.com/sportvu/basketball_data.asp#sthash.g0r0ZmOj.dpuf"

[Sparma]

Oracle, in one way I do want to wait years to pass judgment, on the other hand, I do have a positive initial gut reaction and it's a fan forum where we do assess things straight away.

Augustin and Singler do have limited value, I agree. Still, they seem like a couple of guys who will be in the league, contributing, for a long time. My sense is that picking high second rounders has become a more reliable process over the years, but that the later second rounders continue to be a great gamble (with an occasional Amir emerging).

Going by what you see, as you say, does make sense especially when that means starting from the present and moving forward from there (as Harbaugh emphasized in coming to Michigan). There's a distinct issue though, which is that on a couple of those reports, there are facts of the matter, it's not just folk saying something. Can't remember where I saw that his baskets off of drives are down by a certain amount, but hard numbers were provided. The one I'll be watching is whether he's reluctant to hoist long shots just before the end of quarters (maybe that just happened on his way out of OKC?). Again, there's a fact of the matter, even if it's tough to quantify.

Great point about availability. That's probably what I like best about the trade. SVG may have found the best way to optimize use of that summer cash. Didn't he mention something about wanting to go after Jackson in the summer anyway? But what would your odds be if he's a RFA with OKC? You can list various FAs we could use, but what are our chances with the most valuable ones? SVG's given us the inside track to retaining a dynamic young player.

Sparma, I hear what you're saying, but I'm just not one of those guys!

I don't judge moves like this on the back end and use that to color the entire move. The move is either good or bad... judged on its own when it's made.

1. The biggest thing I would question on the front end would be the picks, but looking at our track record and other teams, 2nd round picks have mixed success and value, but if the draft is deep, they could have value. However, the success of low first round picks is bad enough, so I feel comfortable saying the 2 2nd round picks are mostly a non-factor!

2. Giving up Singler & DJ was rough, but Singler's production is trivially replaceable, his intangibles, not as much, but the system adapts. DJ was valuable as a starter in the system, as a backup, he's readily replaceable, his numbers as a backup weren't that great.

3. Neither Singler or DJ moves the needle for this year or the future, they just don't have that ability.

4. Having said that, Singler & DJ are VERY valuable pieces, and adding in the picks... that's a LOT!!!

So why does SVG give up so much?

1. I ask you, where do you find a dynamic game changing point guard? For us, ONLY in the draft, and only if we're lucky enough to draft high enough and that type of guard is even on the board, or worse, possibly not in the draft... in short, it isn't likely to happen, and even if it did, we wouldn't know for awhile.

2. Was it even likely that we trade in the summer for that level of guard, or pickup one as a FA? Who's available? Nobody that wouldn't cost half the team!

This is the light in which I make the decision on this trade. It was an amazingly smart move and damn the risks, you bet on yourself! I like it because it's what I would have done!

SVG believes that given the talent, he can mold the raw talent into great talent. I believe he can as well, and even if it fails, this is the type of risk that we should be taking, and the type of risk worth making. I also believe that the talent is there, a level of talent that we would be hard to find any other way, and that's the biggest point!

And how risky is it anyway? IMO, the rewards FAR outweigh the risk! If SVG succeeds, we have our backcourt of the future, if it fails, we brown nose Jennings, and we're no worse for swinging for the fences.

That is unless you think the picks, Singler & DJ are irreplaceable...

Lastly, forget what you hear, and focus on what you can see. You're judging reports by what people say, and NOT by what they do!

You look at the fact that he turned down a 4 year 48M offer! Yes that's true, but that's not what I see! What I see is not that he turned it down, but that they OFFERED IT!

You don't make that offer to someone you feel is a drag to your team, they wanted him! The rest is spurned lover stuff, and SVG sees beyond that!

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