Re: FORUM

[cool breeze]

3 predictions for this summer's NBA free agency bonanza

Lots of questions.

Will this information cause many current NBA fans to lose interest altogether? I couldn't help but notice all the high profile politicians and other dignitaries soaking up the attention from the television cameras at this NBA All Star game on Sunday. The game seemed even more staged than before but it was high scoring so the fans got excited and maybe wet their pants. So much is glamor and smoke and mirrors goes on today with pro sports. How can the television marketing folks sucker people to waste their time tuning in? But they know that this type of thing is getting so big now that the morons in our country are attracted. Remember when television had everyone voicing an opinion on the deflated footballs before the NFL championship game? Things can only go downhill from here on out. It is almost time to get out a good book and go back to the old day charm where we had some individuals and less followers.

My father used to show old game tapes of the football games involving the NFL Champion and the College All Stars which took place in the fall or late August. I think there was a game where the Lions played the All Stars before the Super Bowl was created that we watched a lot. The pro players were all out of shape for that game so the college players looked like they had a chance to win. But the important thing was that the games looked real and not staged. Fights would break out and nobody was backing down on either side. The pro players were making very little money and the college guys were excited to play for free. There were several players in the college ranks who were WW 2 vets that my Dad would point out and they were tough guys wearing college uniforms.

One player had been a prisoner of war and was voted MVP in one of those games while playing for the college All Stars. His name was Bob McBride. I met this hero who was captured in the Battle of the Bulge and rescued in a German hospital after he had lost over 130 pounds. Bob told me that an American soldier bent down to take a look at his dog tags at the hospital and then said, "are you related to Bob McBride the football player?" McBride said that he was almost dead but whispered "I am that Bob McBride. Can you get me some pancakes?" Bob recovered and returned to Notre Dame to finish his college football career while becoming an All American again and won that MVP trophy at the college All Star game. Several years ago Bob McBride invited my wife and I to his home for dinner where he showed me that MVP trophy, the football helmet he wore and then said that the only reason why he survived the war and was able to play in that game at all was because he had the guts to DO THE RIGHT THING at one important moment while wearing the army uniform a soldier. His squad had come across a wounded German soldier right before the brake out of the Battle of the Bulge and his squad members pointed their weapons at this man about to kill him. Bob said he just couldn't let that happen and then stood in front of his mates and told them they would have to kill him first. His squad had been greatly depleted by sniper fire and they were mad as hell but did back down. Hours later Bob and his squad were themselves captured while hauling the wounded German soldier. It was that German soldier who stood up for Bob and his mates and DID THE RIGHT THING or they would have been shot on the spot by the attacking Germans. Could those athletes like Bob McBride have anything in common with our current highly paid and pampered professionals that so many Americans idolize? Few people ever cared to know guys like Bob McBride and you would never see them signing autographs in the shopping malls. The best part is that they could care less.

[Oracle]

I would just want the Kings 2nd round pick nothing more, nothing less.

If the Kings offered a 2nd round pick and another player, or a pick & cash, or even a first round pick, from your statement, you would turn it down!

There a lot of danger in interpreting someone's remarks to mean whatever is going on in your head!

BTW, almost all NBA players are "a little cocky, arrogant, self confident", etc.

You're having trouble distinguishing between normal behavior and delusion. It's delusional to say some of those things out loud, like Harden said!

If you're really all you think you are, others say it, you don't have to... but the delusional don't see that!

[WTF]

I would just want the Kings 2nd round pick nothing more, nothing less.

[WTF]

Sparma I lost all confidence in KCP when he said he was just happy to be in the league and felt that he made it. That bothered me

Have you ever had a goal to do something? Do you know what it feels like to accomplish that goal?

And once you accomplish it, would that mean you won't try to achieve more?

If you're a "Special" talent, like LeBron, Jordan, Bird, Zeke, Magic, etc., I can understand taking almost any level of success for granted, I wouldn't advise it, but could understand. He's a lottery pick and special enough to be selected 8th overall if not we should have selected his ass in the 2nd round. Perhaps Harsh but true!!!!!!

But if you're anybody else, it's a sign a delusion to assume too much, because it messes with your head!

Hopefully you'll re-think that a bit.

Just out of curiosity, did you think that Harden saying that he was the best player in the league raise your level of respect for him?

The entirety of his comment was not only was he happy that he made the NBA but was content with just being able to wear the uniform.  Yeah I get that in just getting to the NBA is a dream.   But the question that was pose to him went well beyond that and required a lot more elaborating.  He was asked specifically about what his expectation and goals were, and how he can help the team going forward and what skill and talent he was bringing to the table.   Sorry but that's not the answer or response you'll be looking for from your lottery pick.  

He could have said "I'm simply here to do whatever the coach needs me to do to help the team win"  rather he meant it or not that was not the appropriate response.   If I'm not mistaken the response of the other were "I'm here to help the team get better and win a championship" and rather that was a reality for any of them it was the correct response.

I'm sure every last one of the players drafted all had a dream of becoming an NBA player and they all likely said the were happy about it but they all completed the answer to the question and offered a vote of confidence to fans, media, coaches or whomever, that was not the response from KCP and I remember the reporter looking befuddle because he was expecting a similar response.  

Yes if you're selected 8th overall you need to be a little cocky, arrogant, self confident, brash and I did not like that passive response.

[cool breeze]

I do think Stuckey could have been an All Star, if everything had fallen in place for him, including his own decision making/ work ethic.
Sparma, a, b, and c are things that coaching has nothing to do with, but the character/drive of the player that develops or remains stagnate; if you're not improving then you're stagnating if for no other reason the precious time of your career is passing and new players coming into the league are improving.

He needed to
a) develop a better jumper
Lazy, lazy, lazy and no true deep down love for the game. I got the feeling he was more interested in posturing and receiving accolades than working.
b) be excellent defensively, something of which he was capable physically
Always rumored to be a part of his game, based on his physique, but never passed the eye test for this fan.
c) make better decisions off of his penetration, dishing regularly as the D collapsed and changing up his style in the direction of generosity late in games.
You can't do that if selfishness gets in the way and you've been prematurely anointed to be the best thing to come down the shoot, while surrounded by great players....80% of the 2004 champions and McDyess. Why not play "hero ball?"

None of that was out of the realm of possibility, by any means.  He needed to develop the shooting on his own, but coaching would have made a big difference to the latter two (your minutes are going to be limited until you...)I'm always curious how guys would fare in San Antonio where Popovich insists on team ball and works hard to feature strengths and disguise weaknesses.

I wasn't a big Stuckey fan.  He came nowhere near his NBA best self though, partly through his own choices and limitations, partly because of the systems he was part of.
Granted, Joe brought in clown after clown to coach until he was let go and Stuckey wasn't re-signed, but I don't think that trumps a,b, and c!  

I'd say something similar about a bunch of guys.  For instance, KCP could become a (near) All Star at his best or he could remain a pretty ordinary player for his career (I'll confess I found that display the other day worrisome).  It's a rare guy who maxes out his potential -- Knight may be that rare player.  Watching this year, I'm getting the sinking feeling that Drummond won't be that rare optimizer of talent.  Still early though.

Sparma, on your last posted opinion, I believe your feelings about KCP just might be true, but if Drummond is freed from the influence of Monroe and begins playing with a genuine PF who's driven to succeed, he'll probably become the player we all hope for. Sadly, Knight is well on his way, sad because he won't be coming back this way again.

Great way to brake things down so the truth comes out dX. I am wondering why there has ever been so much fascination directed Stuckey's way by the same fans who watched the games like we did. That last contract Joe Dumars gave Stuckey was beyond stupid like most decisions made by Joe Dumars in his declining years working for the Pistons. Some of us were puzzled at the time that new contract was negociated because one thing was missing when trying to establish the value of a player in his contract season. THERE WAS NO COMPETITION TO SIGN STUCKEY. Where were the other NBA teams looking for players because nobody was looking at our players especially Stuckey. He did manage to find a home in Indiana and you have to wonder if Dumars was not in shock after finding what amount Stuckey settled for this season in Pacer land.

The idea that somehow Dumars was negociating contracts against himself has been widely known. It never seemed to bother him that no other team wanted the players he so highly regarded. He was very worried that he would lose Jason Maxiell almost as much as his son, Rodney Stuckey. What would we fans do without our All Star power forward. Joe protected us fans for years and we are not thankful. And he made a huge steal for us fans when he gave away Knight and Middleton for Brandon Jennings. The Bucks announced that they didn't want him back. No other teams were in the bidding for Jennings services but still Dumars gave way his number one draft pick and another really promising young player. It would have been great to be a fly on the wall during those pivotal moments when Dumars was so deftly swaying John Hammond his way in that deal. Joe might have said, OK you haven't said anything John so maybe that means you don't like the proposed offer of just giving you Brandon Knight. OK then how about if I include Middleton as well? Now you are talking Joe. You got a deal. Joe remains calm until he gets in his car and then screams out loud. WOW I DID IT AGAIN. I TOOK BRANDON JENNINGS AWAY FROM JOHN JUST LIKE I DID WHEN I STOLE CHARLIE V!!!!!!

My only thought on this ridiculous moronic trade is how inept the owners must be when it comes to knowing anything at all about basketball. Did they watch any of the games involving the Pistons or the Bucks before they let Dumars screw up the works again? Don't forget they already had bungled the Ben Gordon deal with Charlotte. I don't believe Tom Gores was very involved but he had two if not three of his other owners highly involved in Piston operations at the time. Too many cocktails and too much attention to half time entertainment it seems or something more sane would have happened.

[lemonpen]

3 predictions for this summer's NBA free agency bonanza

Lots of questions.

[Sparma]

Sparma: "c) make better decisions off of his penetration, dishing regularly as the D collapsed and changing up his style in the direction of generosity late in games."
Deus: "You can't do that if selfishness gets in the way and you've been prematurely anointed to be the best thing to come down the shoot, while surrounded by great players....80% of the 2004 champions and McDyess. Why not play "hero ball?""

I could be wrong about Stuckey having had the potential to be an All Star (maybe in one of those years where a bunch of players drop out), but I'm not trying to say anything very controversial.  My basic view is that players need to be seen within a larger system, giving due weight both to the individual (physical ability, work ethic, basketball IQ, etc.) and the larger context (teammates, team playing style, coaches, GM, owner).

If my view were that players are chesspieces used by coaches (which isn't in fact my view), I'd be super emphatic that coaches could have made a huge difference with Stuckey.

Even with my more moderate, systems, view, I still think coaching can make a big difference (even if ordinary, replacement level, coaching (which is close to what we've had for some time prior to SVG) doesn't make much of a difference).  Take the shooting, which looks like the most individual component to work on.  If I'm the coach, and I pull out the numbers regarding late game productivity with Stuckey and tell him he's not going to see much late time unless he improves his shot, that creates a huge incentive for Stuckey the individual to work hard on his shooting (as well as on decision making).

Deus, you seem to grant part of my point, even though you present yourself as arguing on the other side.  You mention selfishness (which appears to be an individual's trait) but you add "and you've been prematurely anointed to be the best thing to come down the shoot, while surrounded by great players...."  To me, that sounds like a systems-style observation by you, stressing the importance of context.  I think a lot of us can agree that Dumars did Stuckey no favors even as he elevated him.  Clearly, had Stuck played in SA in his prime, there'd be little tolerance for his hero ball.  His "selfishness" would turn out to be more of a malleable trait, revisable by context, than it appears to be.

I'm not sure Stuck had it in him to consistently make good basketball decisions.  But the right context could have made significant difference even to his most frustrating characteristics as a player.

[deusXango]

I do think Stuckey could have been an All Star, if everything had fallen in place for him, including his own decision making/ work ethic.
Sparma, a, b, and c are things that coaching has nothing to do with, but the character/drive of the player that develops or remains stagnate; if you're not improving then you're stagnating if for no other reason the precious time of your career is passing and new players coming into the league are improving.

He needed to
a) develop a better jumper
Lazy, lazy, lazy and no true deep down love for the game. I got the feeling he was more interested in posturing and receiving accolades than working.
b) be excellent defensively, something of which he was capable physically
Always rumored to be a part of his game, based on his physique, but never passed the eye test for this fan.
c) make better decisions off of his penetration, dishing regularly as the D collapsed and changing up his style in the direction of generosity late in games.
You can't do that if selfishness gets in the way and you've been prematurely anointed to be the best thing to come down the shoot, while surrounded by great players....80% of the 2004 champions and McDyess. Why not play "hero ball?"

None of that was out of the realm of possibility, by any means.  He needed to develop the shooting on his own, but coaching would have made a big difference to the latter two (your minutes are going to be limited until you...)I'm always curious how guys would fare in San Antonio where Popovich insists on team ball and works hard to feature strengths and disguise weaknesses.

I wasn't a big Stuckey fan.  He came nowhere near his NBA best self though, partly through his own choices and limitations, partly because of the systems he was part of.
Granted, Joe brought in clown after clown to coach until he was let go and Stuckey wasn't re-signed, but I don't think that trumps a,b, and c!  

I'd say something similar about a bunch of guys.  For instance, KCP could become a (near) All Star at his best or he could remain a pretty ordinary player for his career (I'll confess I found that display the other day worrisome).  It's a rare guy who maxes out his potential -- Knight may be that rare player.  Watching this year, I'm getting the sinking feeling that Drummond won't be that rare optimizer of talent.  Still early though.

Sparma, on your last posted opinion, I believe your feelings about KCP just might be true, but if Drummond is freed from the influence of Monroe and begins playing with a genuine PF who's driven to succeed, he'll probably become the player we all hope for. Sadly, Knight is well on his way, sad because he won't be coming back this way again.

[deusXango]

I hope not! Van Gundy signed Tolliver and now Jonas is no longer important. I like Tolliver but it seems that Jerebco is always the odd man out regardless of how he plays. He was a big part of the winning streak and then the coach sat him for about two weeks with no explanation. Jonas lost some of his timing with his accurate outside shooting after than. Many of those games Jerebco didn't play in were losses where our big men played with very little effort. Believing that Stan is a smart coach, i kept waiting for Jonas to enter those games. Then I thought perhaps Jonas was injured but he wasn't injured. How coaches can bitch in their post game interview that his players gave little to no effort and yet keep a high energy player on the bench amazes me. Jerebco will be successful if he goes to the Kings so I should be happy for him. But here is another guy who played hard on defense, boxed out and ran the court hard and we still have players who look lazy that get most of the playing time. Sometimes I wonder if anything has changed. At least Tolliver plays hard but I am waiting for our other big men to show that they care in every game they play in.

Don, memory serving me correctly didn't Jerebko and Tolliver play together during "the streak," or was it just my desire to see those two becoming our sparks off the bench? Salley and Rodman they're not, but then too, this is a much weaker league than the one the Bad Boys competed in.

[cool breeze]

I hope not! Van Gundy signed Tolliver and now Jonas is no longer important. I like Tolliver but it seems that Jerebco is always the odd man out regardless of how he plays. He was a big part of the winning streak and then the coach sat him for about two weeks with no explanation. Jonas lost some of his timing with his accurate outside shooting after than. Many of those games Jerebco didn't play in were losses where our big men played with very little effort. Believing that Stan is a smart coach, i kept waiting for Jonas to enter those games. Then I thought perhaps Jonas was injured but he wasn't injured. How coaches can bitch in their post game interview that his players gave little to no effort and yet keep a high energy player on the bench amazes me. Jerebco will be successful if he goes to the Kings so I should be happy for him. But here is another guy who played hard on defense, boxed out and ran the court hard and we still have players who look lazy that get most of the playing time. Sometimes I wonder if anything has changed. At least Tolliver plays hard but I am waiting for our other big men to show that they care in every game they play in.

[cool breeze]

I do think Stuckey could have been an All Star, if everything had fallen in place for him, including his own decision making/ work ethic.

He needed to
a) develop a better jumper
b) be excellent defensively, something of which he was capable physically
c) make better decisions off of his penetration, dishing regularly as the D collapsed and changing up his style in the direction of generosity late in games.

None of that was out of the realm of possibility, by any means.  He needed to develop the shooting on his own, but coaching would have made a big difference to the latter two (your minutes are going to be limited until you ...).  I'm always curious how guys would fare in San Antonio where Popovich insists on team ball and works hard to feature strengths and disguise weaknesses.

I wasn't a big Stuckey fan.  He came nowhere near his NBA best self though, partly through his own choices and limitations, partly because of the systems he was part of.  

I'd say something similar about a bunch of guys.  For instance, KCP could become a (near) All Star at his best or he could remain a pretty ordinary player for his career (I'll confess I found that display the other day worrisome).  It's a rare guy who maxes out his potential -- Knight may be that rare player.  Watching this year, I'm getting the sinking feeling that Drummond won't be that rare optimizer of talent.  Still early though.

Sparma I lost all confidence in KCP when he said he was just happy to be in the league and felt that he made it.  That bothered me

I came away with a much different feeling after watching Pope struggle the other night. We was embarrassed. I felt for him. He didn't let me down. He is one of our players. Regardless of how great you might be, every basketball player knows their ability to make shots can mysteriously disappear. You can warm up and hit all your warm up shots and think tonight is going to be a great night and then something happens and it is called situations on the court or your body does funny things. Remember Harden in his last playoffs with the Thunder? He couldn't make a shot to save his life. What Pope should do it use that game as a test for himself. Knowing Pope has a great work ethic, I believe he will use that game to punish everyone who doubts him as he pushes through a long hard summer working at his game. He is a 2nd year player and has improved greatly. He has the desire, quickness and work ethic to become a special player and I expect that will become a reality for him and give him a much higher chance than Monroe or Drummond to become one of the best players at his position. After all, have you ever seen Pope take possessions off on defense like Monroe and Drummond. No he has always played hard on the defensive end and that is always a clue to how good a player can potentially become in the NBA where many players take possessions off on defense.

[Oracle]

Sparma I lost all confidence in KCP when he said he was just happy to be in the league and felt that he made it. That bothered me

Have you ever had a goal to do something? Do you know what it feels like to accomplish that goal?

And once you accomplish it, would that mean you won't try to achieve more?

If you're a "Special" talent, like LeBron, Jordan, Bird, Zeke, Magic, etc., I can understand taking almost any level of success for granted, I wouldn't advise it, but could understand.

But if you're anybody else, it's a sign a delusion to assume too much, because it messes with your head!

Hopefully you'll re-think that a bit.

Just out of curiosity, did you think that Harden saying that he was the best player in the league raise your level of respect for him?

[WTF]

I do think Stuckey could have been an All Star, if everything had fallen in place for him, including his own decision making/ work ethic.

He needed to
a) develop a better jumper
b) be excellent defensively, something of which he was capable physically
c) make better decisions off of his penetration, dishing regularly as the D collapsed and changing up his style in the direction of generosity late in games.

None of that was out of the realm of possibility, by any means.  He needed to develop the shooting on his own, but coaching would have made a big difference to the latter two (your minutes are going to be limited until you ...).  I'm always curious how guys would fare in San Antonio where Popovich insists on team ball and works hard to feature strengths and disguise weaknesses.

I wasn't a big Stuckey fan.  He came nowhere near his NBA best self though, partly through his own choices and limitations, partly because of the systems he was part of.  

I'd say something similar about a bunch of guys.  For instance, KCP could become a (near) All Star at his best or he could remain a pretty ordinary player for his career (I'll confess I found that display the other day worrisome).  It's a rare guy who maxes out his potential -- Knight may be that rare player.  Watching this year, I'm getting the sinking feeling that Drummond won't be that rare optimizer of talent.  Still early though.

Sparma I lost all confidence in KCP when he said he was just happy to be in the league and felt that he made it. That bothered me

[Oracle]

Stuckey WOULD have been an all star if he had developed a floater, a pull up jumper, or both!

Bulling his way to the basket, like Wade hitting the floor too many times early in his career spells nagging injuries!

All of this was under Stuckey's control! Especially since they gave him the ball and said do whatever you want!

Hell, Kobe's coaches NEVER wanted to play him because as a rookie and 2nd year player, he was either amazingly good or amazingly bad! Kobe thought game plans were for lesser players, and when he had the ball... that was the game plan!

Coaching is critical for a player to reach his peak within a system, but the coach can't hide excellence, and won't for obvious reasons.

If Stuckey had developed those shots he would have been damn near unstoppable, but instead he preferred to get constantly blocked by either the rim or other players on a regular basis.

For a smart kid, he sure was dumb on the court... after Chauncey left!

[Sparma]

I do think Stuckey could have been an All Star, if everything had fallen in place for him, including his own decision making/ work ethic.

He needed to
a) develop a better jumper
b) be excellent defensively, something of which he was capable physically
c) make better decisions off of his penetration, dishing regularly as the D collapsed and changing up his style in the direction of generosity late in games.

None of that was out of the realm of possibility, by any means. He needed to develop the shooting on his own, but coaching would have made a big difference to the latter two (your minutes are going to be limited until you ...). I'm always curious how guys would fare in San Antonio where Popovich insists on team ball and works hard to feature strengths and disguise weaknesses.

I wasn't a big Stuckey fan. He came nowhere near his NBA best self though, partly through his own choices and limitations, partly because of the systems he was part of.

I'd say something similar about a bunch of guys. For instance, KCP could become a (near) All Star at his best or he could remain a pretty ordinary player for his career (I'll confess I found that display the other day worrisome). It's a rare guy who maxes out his potential -- Knight may be that rare player. Watching this year, I'm getting the sinking feeling that Drummond won't be that rare optimizer of talent. Still early though.

[WTF]

One thing I love about this level of the game is how much rides on the "individual" putting in the work to develop himself. Organizations provide top notch facilities, advanced techniques and competent staff but in the end a players progress remains his responsibility.

Exactly!

There are a lot of factors that my hurt a player from realizing his full potential, i.e., a bad system mismatch, a bad coach, etc., but NONE of that can stop a motivated player from shining if he took full advantage of the superior facilities, medical care, training and making use of the NBA smarts available in the organization and league!

That's why character and more importantly, IMO, personality, is important. If you're focused and driven, that kind of personality will always perform, and if character is there as well, you likely have a star player.

I'm not taking any blame form Stuckey but I do believe that he was a product of his environment. We didn't see these things under Flip and with CB still on the team. That crap attitude came about mid season of Curry first and only season as coach and it was down hill after. No denying the kid had talent
saying he wasn't affected by his surrounding I'm not sure you can.

[cool breeze]

Still it's hard to completely blast SVG  even though he came with only a dust pan but forgot the broom to clean up Joe's mess he left behind after a very questionable tenure.  Isn't it funny how he name continues to pop up when we assess the issues of this team.  

You all know a was hoping Joe ass was fired after the 2006 season and the final question about Joe is how do you fu@k up so many draft choices starting with Darko or some like to point out Rodney White as the sart.  Personally I think it started with the selection of Cleaves.  Nonetheless Joe left so many big turds and scattered donut crumbs it almost seem unfair beating up on SVG.  

BTW DX, properly coached and developed Stuckey would or could have been on par with both Westbrook and Rose

Back to SVG, I'm sure he would have rather came in not having to deal with the Moose issue, not having to lean on Josh.  I can't say if SVG was selecting the last 6 seasons oppose to Joe if any of these players would have been drafted at all by SVG.  It's like SVG bought a house and before the previous tenants left and he moved in they crapped on the walls and floors.  

I'm not sure if I really like SVG,  I'm not sure if he shouldn't just focus on being the president of this team and hiring a new coach to coach and develop this team the way they want to.  Not sure if he should have hired his friend as GM either because the Moose and Josh issue is just as much Bowers fault as it is SVG.  We tend to forget that Bower even exist in all these questionable decisions and he should be playing yes man to SVG.  SVG shouldn't be in front of the cameras explain the dumb sh!t Bower should be.   If not then why hire a general manager, because Bower should have been advising SVG not to allow Moose sign that QO and to accept the Kings trade proposal for Josh.   While being in charge of everything has some advantages it also has disadvantages when there are no checks and balances when making decisions.  Meaning someone should have been telling SVG when decisions were stupid.

In that case, so could Darko, Cleeves, and "Fast Hands" White.

One thing I love about this level of the game is how much rides on the "individual" putting in the work to develop himself.  Organizations provide top notch facilities, advanced techniques and competent staff but in the end a players progress remains his responsibility.

If you asked Stuckey's previous coaches, they would all say, Rodney is not a coachable player at least for them. I believe that Stuckey became frustrated when coaches asked more of him just because he was a highly paid player. Rodney believed he was extremely talented much like Charlie V and for sure he was physically gifted like a lot of college basketball players. While some Piston fans never gave up on him, he gave up on himself and appeared to actually hate having to show up for the games. It was difficult for all those coaches who were fired to keep him on the bench so much. The idea that it was the coaches fault is actually funny. Those fans that believe that must have forgotten that Rodney when interviewed said that he enjoyed coming off the bench. He lost the starting position to a rookie when Singler arrived and that didn't bother him at all. After all he didn't have to play much and still could collect the funny money that Dumars decided to pay him. Stuckey was a big part of the problem in those dull seasons where we fans could see that the players were faking it and not playing hard at all. Still Stuckey is a pleasant guy and soft spoken and he made a hell of a lot of money for doing next to nothing.

[deusXango]

One thing I love about this level of the game is how much rides on the "individual" putting in the work to develop himself. Organizations provide top notch facilities, advanced techniques and competent staff but in the end a players progress remains his responsibility.

Exactly!

There are a lot of factors that my hurt a player from realizing his full potential, i.e., a bad system mismatch, a bad coach, etc., but NONE of that can stop a motivated player from shining if he took full advantage of the superior facilities, medical care, training and making use of the NBA smarts available in the organization and league!

That's why character and more importantly, IMO, personality, is important. If you're focused and driven, that kind of personality will always perform, and if character is there as well, you likely have a star player.

This was my biggest problem with Rodney Stuckey; as great a FT shooter as he was, why in all those years as a Pistons player didn't he develop a deadly mid-range/3 point shot? I watched Afflalo make giant strides from year 1 to year 2 on his jump shot, but Stuckey never got any better and for a ball dominate guard, he should have been a much more reliable outside shooter. Grant Hill hired a shooting coach to help him with his mechanics because he was a poor outside shooter, as great as his game was otherwise, but Stuckey insisted on relying on his drives to the basket (which he was a piss-poor finisher) and never worked on anything in the team's facility, other than the sideline dancers.

[Oracle]

One thing I love about this level of the game is how much rides on the "individual" putting in the work to develop himself. Organizations provide top notch facilities, advanced techniques and competent staff but in the end a players progress remains his responsibility.

Exactly!

There are a lot of factors that my hurt a player from realizing his full potential, i.e., a bad system mismatch, a bad coach, etc., but NONE of that can stop a motivated player from shining if he took full advantage of the superior facilities, medical care, training and making use of the NBA smarts available in the organization and league!

That's why character and more importantly, IMO, personality, is important. If you're focused and driven, that kind of personality will always perform, and if character is there as well, you likely have a star player.

[lemonpen]

Still it's hard to completely blast SVG  even though he came with only a dust pan but forgot the broom to clean up Joe's mess he left behind after a very questionable tenure.  Isn't it funny how he name continues to pop up when we assess the issues of this team.  

You all know a was hoping Joe ass was fired after the 2006 season and the final question about Joe is how do you fu@k up so many draft choices starting with Darko or some like to point out Rodney White as the sart.  Personally I think it started with the selection of Cleaves.  Nonetheless Joe left so many big turds and scattered donut crumbs it almost seem unfair beating up on SVG.  

BTW DX, properly coached and developed Stuckey would or could have been on par with both Westbrook and Rose

Back to SVG, I'm sure he would have rather came in not having to deal with the Moose issue, not having to lean on Josh.  I can't say if SVG was selecting the last 6 seasons oppose to Joe if any of these players would have been drafted at all by SVG.  It's like SVG bought a house and before the previous tenants left and he moved in they crapped on the walls and floors.  

I'm not sure if I really like SVG,  I'm not sure if he shouldn't just focus on being the president of this team and hiring a new coach to coach and develop this team the way they want to.  Not sure if he should have hired his friend as GM either because the Moose and Josh issue is just as much Bowers fault as it is SVG.  We tend to forget that Bower even exist in all these questionable decisions and he should be playing yes man to SVG.  SVG shouldn't be in front of the cameras explain the dumb sh!t Bower should be.   If not then why hire a general manager, because Bower should have been advising SVG not to allow Moose sign that QO and to accept the Kings trade proposal for Josh.   While being in charge of everything has some advantages it also has disadvantages when there are no checks and balances when making decisions.  Meaning someone should have been telling SVG when decisions were stupid.

In that case, so could Darko, Cleeves, and "Fast Hands" White.

One thing I love about this level of the game is how much rides on the "individual" putting in the work to develop himself. Organizations provide top notch facilities, advanced techniques and competent staff but in the end a players progress remains his responsibility.

[lemonpen]

This is a smart move by the Commish(eliminate 4 games in 5 days) - Labor peace means Commish Silver can focus on basketball

But just when you think things could get better, this sh*t shows up! Ok, they turned it down, but the fact that this could even come up as an idea is hugely disturbing - Hall of Fame fan voting takes backseat as interest subsides

BTW, the All Star Game was a MAJOR Snooze fest! There has always been less defense played, but at least they used to take it more seriously! It's all about clowning and giving the fans what they think they want.

I turned it off in the 1st quarter, I couldn't take it, and I don't care about the score or Westbrook getting anything for that performance because it means nothing!

I sat in amazement as King James outran his teammates upcourt just to launch an airball from 10 feet beyond the arc. Suddenly "The Defiant Ones" on TMC looked pretty good to me. Sidney Poitier and Tony Curtis made a damn good movie.

[Oracle]

This???

The Pistons have two of the best free-throw shooters in the NBA. Jodie Meeks is the league leader at 94.4 percent, and it isn't even close (Milwaukee's Jerryd Bayless is second at 90.9). But D.J. Augustin is on a roll that will have folks consulting the Pistons record book if it continues much longer, with 40 consecutive free throws made over the last seven games. We'll save you the trouble. The team record is safe for now, 62 consecutive free throws made, by Joe Dumars (March 9-April 5, 1991). So is the NBA record, 97 by Minnesota's Micheal Williams (March 24-Nov. 9, 1993). Augustin is shooting 87 percent from the line, 14th in the league. At the rate he has been shooting free throws, with 46 attempts in the last seven games, he figures to resolve his challenge to Dumars' team record soon enough. Meeks has made his last 19 free throws, and earlier this season made 31 in a row, by the way.

BTW, we're about to enter murders row in the schedule. It's likely that we should start tanking in about a week or two!

[Oracle]

This is a smart move by the Commish(eliminate 4 games in 5 days) - Labor peace means Commish Silver can focus on basketball

But just when you think things could get better, this sh*t shows up! Ok, they turned it down, but the fact that this could even come up as an idea is hugely disturbing - Hall of Fame fan voting takes backseat as interest subsides

BTW, the All Star Game was a MAJOR Snooze fest! There has always been less defense played, but at least they used to take it more seriously! It's all about clowning and giving the fans what they think they want.

I turned it off in the 1st quarter, I couldn't take it, and I don't care about the score or Westbrook getting anything for that performance because it means nothing!

[deusXango]

Still it's hard to completely blast SVG  even though he came with only a dust pan but forgot the broom to clean up Joe's mess he left behind after a very questionable tenure.  Isn't it funny how he name continues to pop up when we assess the issues of this team.  

You all know a was hoping Joe ass was fired after the 2006 season and the final question about Joe is how do you fu@k up so many draft choices starting with Darko or some like to point out Rodney White as the sart.  Personally I think it started with the selection of Cleaves.  Nonetheless Joe left so many big turds and scattered donut crumbs it almost seem unfair beating up on SVG.  

BTW DX, properly coached and developed Stuckey would or could have been on par with both Westbrook and Rose

Back to SVG, I'm sure he would have rather came in not having to deal with the Moose issue, not having to lean on Josh.  I can't say if SVG was selecting the last 6 seasons oppose to Joe if any of these players would have been drafted at all by SVG.  It's like SVG bought a house and before the previous tenants left and he moved in they crapped on the walls and floors.  

I'm not sure if I really like SVG,  I'm not sure if he shouldn't just focus on being the president of this team and hiring a new coach to coach and develop this team the way they want to.  Not sure if he should have hired his friend as GM either because the Moose and Josh issue is just as much Bowers fault as it is SVG.  We tend to forget that Bower even exist in all these questionable decisions and he should be playing yes man to SVG.  SVG shouldn't be in front of the cameras explain the dumb sh!t Bower should be.   If not then why hire a general manager, because Bower should have been advising SVG not to allow Moose sign that QO and to accept the Kings trade proposal for Josh.   While being in charge of everything has some advantages it also has disadvantages when there are no checks and balances when making decisions.  Meaning someone should have been telling SVG when decisions were stupid.

Was that really necessary, I mean really?

[WTF]

Who gives a damn how many minutes Carmelo played last night in the ASG. This meaningless bullsh!t game has no impact on his decision to shut it down the ret of the season. It was a monkey show that required very little effort on the part of players as the score clearly indicates not sure why ESPN is so deep in discussion about it.

Yeah he could played 5 minutes and sat his as down, who could have not played at all, but it doesn't matter if he played 30 minutes or the entire freaking 48 minutes. I'm sure if he thought serious injury could happen he wouldn't have played, but damn your can sprain an ankle just walking give be a break.

And screw those that had a problem with KD remarks as well.

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