Sparma

[Oracle]

Agree, it's very difficult!

But this is what you get one day before the trade deadline hits

[Sparma]

Not sure if this helps, but as I remember mlive (Mayo?) discussed a trade with the Nets and pointed out it'd be well nigh impossible for the Pistons to come up with a match that would be reasonable to them (and even to the Nets given their roster size). If you just focus on Johnson's salary coming off the books next summer, that part makes sense. The upgrade to our team and the prospect (??) of enticing Monroe with a better team also makes sense. What doesn't make sense is being able to pull the trade off at all, in a way that would be reasonable for the Pistons.

I was going by what follows below by Langlois, particularly his second point.  I later looked at another site (http://www.spotrac.com/nba/brooklyn-nets/joe-johnson/) which lists JJ as an UFA in 2016.

Langlois: "Dig a layer or two beneath the surface and you can see the shred of a sound foundation to the idea. One, it obviously helps the Pistons this season, giving them a go-to scorer at a position they likely will be looking to shore up in the off-season otherwise. Two, while it crimps their off-season cap space this year, they'd have a $25 million deal coming off the books a year from now and it's quite possible the 2016 free-agent crop will be viewed as more attractive than '15's. Three, maybe – no idea, just sayin' – the Pistons believe, or even have reason to believe, that the prospect of a go-to scorer at small forward next season would have Greg Monroe viewing the prospect of staying with the Pistons in an entirely different light. I think the chances of such a deal getting done are small...."

An interesting point was brought up (by Langlois) concerning the Johnson possibility, a trade which on the face of it seems nuts.  The Pistons are going to have a ton of money this summer, but so are several other teams, in a pretty thin FA market.  Johnson's contract runs through next season; the Pistons may like their chances in the summer of '16 market better than this summer's.  Trading for Johnson could (L. suggested) have the effect of making it more like Monroe stayed on.  In any case, it'd be a way to defer the time for big spending until it made more sense.

Not sure what I think about trading with the Nets.  The trade itself seems real unlikely, so it's probably not worth dwelling on what all it might mean.

Is that true that it runs through next year?

On a site they said he was unrestricted in 2016, but they didn't specify if it was the end of 2016. Seasons span years, so that site is pissing me off!

If what you say is true, then I was right the first time.

That's the site where I saw his contract as well!

So if they list JJ as UFA in 2016, then it also applies to Johnson, so, IMO, getting him and either re-signing him to a much lower deal or replacing him(most likely), is a good deal.

What I don't understand is why this hurts us CAP wise if he comes off the books like JJ.

I must be missing something!

[Oracle]

I was going by what follows below by Langlois, particularly his second point.  I later looked at another site (http://www.spotrac.com/nba/brooklyn-nets/joe-johnson/) which lists JJ as an UFA in 2016.

Langlois: "Dig a layer or two beneath the surface and you can see the shred of a sound foundation to the idea. One, it obviously helps the Pistons this season, giving them a go-to scorer at a position they likely will be looking to shore up in the off-season otherwise. Two, while it crimps their off-season cap space this year, they'd have a $25 million deal coming off the books a year from now and it's quite possible the 2016 free-agent crop will be viewed as more attractive than '15's. Three, maybe – no idea, just sayin' – the Pistons believe, or even have reason to believe, that the prospect of a go-to scorer at small forward next season would have Greg Monroe viewing the prospect of staying with the Pistons in an entirely different light. I think the chances of such a deal getting done are small...."

An interesting point was brought up (by Langlois) concerning the Johnson possibility, a trade which on the face of it seems nuts.  The Pistons are going to have a ton of money this summer, but so are several other teams, in a pretty thin FA market.  Johnson's contract runs through next season; the Pistons may like their chances in the summer of '16 market better than this summer's.  Trading for Johnson could (L. suggested) have the effect of making it more like Monroe stayed on.  In any case, it'd be a way to defer the time for big spending until it made more sense.

Not sure what I think about trading with the Nets.  The trade itself seems real unlikely, so it's probably not worth dwelling on what all it might mean.

Is that true that it runs through next year?

On a site they said he was unrestricted in 2016, but they didn't specify if it was the end of 2016. Seasons span years, so that site is pissing me off!

If what you say is true, then I was right the first time.

That's the site where I saw his contract as well!

So if they list JJ as UFA in 2016, then it also applies to Johnson, so, IMO, getting him and either re-signing him to a much lower deal or replacing him(most likely), is a good deal.

What I don't understand is why this hurts us CAP wise if he comes off the books like JJ.

I must be missing something!

[Sparma]

I was going by what follows below by Langlois, particularly his second point. I later looked at another site (http://www.spotrac.com/nba/brooklyn-nets/joe-johnson/) which lists JJ as an UFA in 2016.

Langlois: "Dig a layer or two beneath the surface and you can see the shred of a sound foundation to the idea. One, it obviously helps the Pistons this season, giving them a go-to scorer at a position they likely will be looking to shore up in the off-season otherwise. Two, while it crimps their off-season cap space this year, they'd have a $25 million deal coming off the books a year from now and it's quite possible the 2016 free-agent crop will be viewed as more attractive than '15's. Three, maybe – no idea, just sayin' – the Pistons believe, or even have reason to believe, that the prospect of a go-to scorer at small forward next season would have Greg Monroe viewing the prospect of staying with the Pistons in an entirely different light. I think the chances of such a deal getting done are small...."

An interesting point was brought up (by Langlois) concerning the Johnson possibility, a trade which on the face of it seems nuts.  The Pistons are going to have a ton of money this summer, but so are several other teams, in a pretty thin FA market.  Johnson's contract runs through next season; the Pistons may like their chances in the summer of '16 market better than this summer's.  Trading for Johnson could (L. suggested) have the effect of making it more like Monroe stayed on.  In any case, it'd be a way to defer the time for big spending until it made more sense.

Not sure what I think about trading with the Nets.  The trade itself seems real unlikely, so it's probably not worth dwelling on what all it might mean.

Is that true that it runs through next year?

On a site they said he was unrestricted in 2016, but they didn't specify if it was the end of 2016. Seasons span years, so that site is pissing me off!

If what you say is true, then I was right the first time.

[Oracle]

Jazz you would have to wait until this summer and I would be more than happy to see a S&T for Kanter and Burke I wouldn't even squabble about it. Done Deal!

I'd do that deal too, BUT it's so impossible to make happen it's ridiculous to even think about!

Terry Foster has officially lost his mind

[Oracle]

An interesting point was brought up (by Langlois) concerning the Johnson possibility, a trade which on the face of it seems nuts.  The Pistons are going to have a ton of money this summer, but so are several other teams, in a pretty thin FA market.  Johnson's contract runs through next season; the Pistons may like their chances in the summer of '16 market better than this summer's.  Trading for Johnson could (L. suggested) have the effect of making it more like Monroe stayed on.  In any case, it'd be a way to defer the time for big spending until it made more sense.

Not sure what I think about trading with the Nets.  The trade itself seems real unlikely, so it's probably not worth dwelling on what all it might mean.

Is that true that it runs through next year?

On a site they said he was unrestricted in 2016, but they didn't specify if it was the end of 2016. Seasons span years, so that site is pissing me off!

If what you say is true, then I was right the first time.

[WTF]

Jazz you would have to wait until this summer and I would be more than happy to see a S&T for Kanter and Burke I wouldn't even squabble about it. Done Deal!

[Sparma]

An interesting point was brought up (by Langlois) concerning the Johnson possibility, a trade which on the face of it seems nuts. The Pistons are going to have a ton of money this summer, but so are several other teams, in a pretty thin FA market. Johnson's contract runs through next season; the Pistons may like their chances in the summer of '16 market better than this summer's. Trading for Johnson could (L. suggested) have the effect of making it more like Monroe stayed on. In any case, it'd be a way to defer the time for big spending until it made more sense.

Not sure what I think about trading with the Nets. The trade itself seems real unlikely, so it's probably not worth dwelling on what all it might mean.

[Oracle]

@Stones - Stones, I owe you an apology! I thought Johnson's contract went beyond this year, but he's an unrestricted agent in 2016, so going after him does make a LOT of sense!

@Wise - In light of what I just said to Stones, I totally agree with you that as a rental, he's just what we need for the home stretch! We just let him and his 20M+ salary walk, and we're back in business with plenty of CAP space!

With Johnson at SF most of the time, our playoff chances would be a LOT brighter, IMO!

[Oracle]

I like your reply Bro, but unfortunately, you proceeded on a horribly false assumption before you started.

I get it, you don't like Kaminsky; you'd rather have Moose and you believe he's coming back, so there's no need for a backup plan. Thanks for the backhanded compliment though.

Where did you get that??? My assumption is EXACTLY the opposite, as you might have noticed that I was LOOKING to add a seasoned PF! My assumption was that Monroe was GONE!!! Unfortunately that thought colored(literally) your response.

My objection is to wasting our time drafting you boy as a PF, and that being the main plan, I believe that to be a bad move for someone wanting to be competitive.

BTW, getting Dragic from the Suns will be VERY difficult, getting Green from GS will be near IMPOSSIBLE! Green is USING us to drive up his price, nothing more, he doesn't want to come here as a first option, he wants to stay where he is and GS wants him there!

This is why I say fixing your goal, and it's NOT a championship for next year, is important. Planning is about short and long term goals, but once you fix them, other decisions become clearer.

[WTF]

Allowing Moose to walk, leave Joe Johnson alone and do what Wise suggested; trade J.J. for a second round pick...I'd personally take D. Williams for an interview though.

Draft Frank Kaminsky and let Arnie work his magic on his strength and conditioning since that's the only knock I've heard about the kid...his strength is a concern. Pffft. Whether Draymond is serious about coming home or not, whether the Suns are determined to re-sign Dragic or not, I'm offering the both of them max deals! They'll be a bargain in a year. If I'm willing to let Moose walk, you know that nobody's safe, or as Dumars said, "there are no sacred cows(except the one he was apparently impersonating these past years)!" All the expiring contracts will do just that, expire, and the team options will be let go. Think what you will, there's something to be said about the D-League.

Now we've got a team to test SVG's coaching mettle; Drummond, Kaminsky, Anthony, Williams, Green, Dragic, Jennings, KCP, Meeks, Augustin, Dinwiddie, Tolliver, and a second round draft pick. That'd be Van Gundy's team, all but, Drummond, KCP, and Jennings, and year two should be a sight better than where we're expected to end up this season.

Ridiculous huh?

If I'm looking towards the future, I have to agree that it's the better way to go! I'm not sure how many seasons Joe has left in the tank, but I do know he's paid WAY too much for the privilege!

But I do believe that we need a seasoned PF with at least 4 years of experience, hoping on the draft is dangerous at best!

BTW, why in the world do all of these rumors happen 2 days before the deadline when it's either too late to make a move, or too late to make an intelligent evaluation of the move???

My first reaction the Joe Johnson rumored trade proposal was hell to the no. Then I thought about it longer and yeah that a huge price but if its just one season I could be receptive to the idea of having him for 1 season, and Joe could be a huge asset to have next season by trade deadline. The only real risk is if his ass was to get injured but the other side of it he just might be enough to get us into the playoffs for certain next season as well. I also think we could get a lot of mileage out of him at SF though I think he plays SG.

I'm not sold either way but after thinking about it I'm not horrified by the prospect of trading for him. There could be far better solution and there could be far worse one's like continuing on our current path.

As far as Kaminsky goes I like him and if available we should draft him, but agree with Oracle that we still would need a seasoned PF to rely on until Kaminsky could make the full transition from college to playing and starting in the pros. Better safe than sorry plus SVG would still need to replace Josh and Moose if Moose walk for nothing.

[Sebastian]

I think that making plans for next season that include Greg Monroe is a big problem that's going to cause a lot of disappointment. He has Bird Rights with us and only us, so don't worry about Monroe either way (stay or gone). We should alter our perception of things that can be done and proceed to build a team around Drummond (without allowing personal prejudice to come in); don't worry about his shortcomings, but appreciate his strengths.

This is the NBA and there's no such thing as too many talented/highly skilled big men; this draft is loaded with big men and I believe we have a better than decent shot at the one with the most diverse skillset, beyond Okafor and Towns, Frank Kaminsky. The man is a winner and leader. Not only can he play, but he's a thinker also. Haven't we had our fill of dummies yet? His maturity is his best asset and that's why I like the kid so much; he's not a "one and done" player who it takes 3-4 years to fit into the pro game. I'd roll the dice on a legit 7 footer, rather than a SF, as bad as we need one, and I'd do this even if Monroe stayed (that'd be a big plus!).

Monroe is the last player I'd sign, not because I don't want him, but because I'm throwing mad money at Dragic and Green, and we can go over the CAP to re-sign Monroe; offering max deals to Green and Dragic is that pimp sh!t Sebastian is always talking about. It'd be time for KCP to sh!t or get off the pot; start him and Dragic in our backcourt, and put Augustin back where our team would be best served...an emergency PG who can bring it. I've heard the talk about Green being too big and slow to play SF, and he doesn't have a 3 point shot and I ain't buying it; he plays mad defense of multiple positions that you can see, and every player doesn't have to shot the 3 ball, just get the ball in the hoop, which he can. If Moose returns, start Monroe, Drummond, and Green; if he doesn't return start Kaminsky. Oracle has said we should get a PF with at least 4 years experience; who's out there that all things considered, would be better than giving this rookie a chance....this is an evolving/developing team after all.

Meeks, Tolliver, Augustin, Dragic, Kaminsky, and KCP are more than enough 3 point shooters, what we need is some players who can move the ball and play well with each other. What we need is a well built team that's not boring to watch, lazy in it's play, but consistently fighting to the end. SVG doesn't need to sit there and watch players throw up 3 after 3 and when they lose, cry about their lack of defense; teach them to play the right way.

DX, the self-appointed agent for his boy, Frank Kaminsky, has a plan. (Yo, DX, you keep beating that Kaminsky drum.) Personally, I have not seen a college player enough this season to campaign for any of them. But, I'll be sure to take a close look at Kaminsky.

Then, there's the Joe Johnson talk. of which I am not totally or even 49% enamored with. There's also the talk of Dragic and Green, which would be difficult to pry from the Suns, because of what other teams have to offer and the salary swaps that would have to involve Van Gundy's boy, F@ckin' Jodie Meeks.

Finally, Moose, holds the cards more than ever 29 hours from the Trade Deadline. The dude has to approve any destination where the team resides in a possible trade and he can only be traded with his salary - can only be traded from the Pistons, not with teammates. If not traded by 3:00 PM EST, Thursday Moose will play out the remaining 28 games as a Pistons and sign a contract with the New Orleans Pelicans, as he reunites with the man that he enjoyed working with in the past: Joe Dumars.

Joe will be hired by the owners of the Pelicans and it will be the prodigal sons returning to New Orleans and Louisiana, as Moose, Joe, and Avery Johnson, who will become the Pelicans' head coach.

I'm not sure there is any real reason to watch if no move of significance is made by 3:00 PM EST on Thursday.

Oh, there is still the 8th seed in the Eastern Conference Playoffs with a record of 29-53.

[deusXango]

If you ask the wrong questions, the answers you come up with are tainted!
Oracle has said we should get a PF with at least 4 years experience; who's out there that all things considered, would be better than giving this rookie a chance? I've gotten nothing but tainted answers to this question, so I guess you're right.

It's not perception that drives the future, it's goals and planning!
The battle hardened soldiers of Israel looked upon Goliath and saw a man too big to be beaten; David (the shepherd boy) looked at Goliath and saw a man too big to miss! The difference of perception made a king; a new perspective can make us champions again. I think that's everybody's goal.

Before you launch into your analysis of the future, you have to know what the goal is, because that determines what you do!
The goal is a championship team. A championship team is made by doing (planning and working), not talking.

If you want to be in the lottery, you go out and get rookie big men for your starting lineup, or you dream that they won't play like rookies and again, you're in the lottery anyway because you're fooling yourself. I suggest you read Lemonpen's post on players again!
Howard, Aldridge, Durant, Garnett, Love, Davis, and Cousins even; it's the team that surrounds the rookie big man and the maturity of the big man. I get the feeling this is more about Monroe being irreplaceable than it is a talented, legitimate, 7 foot PF coming in and possibly doing well. Oh well.

However, if you decide that you want to win and be competitive, you get some experience there and shore up your other weaknesses, like PG & SF!
I'm sure Dragic is a PG and Green is a SF. Those two are tremendous upgrades for us at those positions, for years to come and steals within a year.

Having said that I do like a lot of your post, but this fixation on starting rookies and hoping that they are stars is fools gold in the worst way!
I get it, you don't like Kaminsky; you'd rather have Moose and you believe he's coming back, so there's no need for a backup plan. Thanks for the backhanded compliment though.

[Oracle]

If you ask the wrong questions, the answers you come up with are tainted!

It's not perception that drives the future, it's goals and planning!

Before you launch into your analysis of the future, you have to know what the goal is, because that determines what you do!

If you want to be in the lottery, you go out and get rookie big men for your starting lineup, or you dream that they won't play like rookies and again, you're in the lottery anyway because you're fooling yourself. I suggest you read Lemonpen's post on players again!

However, if you decide that you want to win and be competitive, you get some experience there and shore up your other weaknesses, like PG & SF!

Having said that I do like a lot of your post, but this fixation on starting rookies and hoping that they are stars is fools gold in the worst way!

[deusXango]

I think that making plans for next season that include Greg Monroe is a big problem that's going to cause a lot of disappointment. He has Bird Rights with us and only us, so don't worry about Monroe either way (stay or gone). We should alter our perception of things that can be done and proceed to build a team around Drummond (without allowing personal prejudice to come in); don't worry about his shortcomings, but appreciate his strengths.

This is the NBA and there's no such thing as too many talented/highly skilled big men; this draft is loaded with big men and I believe we have a better than decent shot at the one with the most diverse skillset, beyond Okafor and Towns, Frank Kaminsky. The man is a winner and leader. Not only can he play, but he's a thinker also. Haven't we had our fill of dummies yet? His maturity is his best asset and that's why I like the kid so much; he's not a "one and done" player who it takes 3-4 years to fit into the pro game. I'd roll the dice on a legit 7 footer, rather than a SF, as bad as we need one, and I'd do this even if Monroe stayed (that'd be a big plus!).

Monroe is the last player I'd sign, not because I don't want him, but because I'm throwing mad money at Dragic and Green, and we can go over the CAP to re-sign Monroe; offering max deals to Green and Dragic is that pimp sh!t Sebastian is always talking about. It'd be time for KCP to sh!t or get off the pot; start him and Dragic in our backcourt, and put Augustin back where our team would be best served...an emergency PG who can bring it. I've heard the talk about Green being too big and slow to play SF, and he doesn't have a 3 point shot and I ain't buying it; he plays mad defense of multiple positions that you can see, and every player doesn't have to shot the 3 ball, just get the ball in the hoop, which he can. If Moose returns, start Monroe, Drummond, and Green; if he doesn't return start Kaminsky. Oracle has said we should get a PF with at least 4 years experience; who's out there that all things considered, would be better than giving this rookie a chance....this is an evolving/developing team after all.

Meeks, Tolliver, Augustin, Dragic, Kaminsky, and KCP are more than enough 3 point shooters, what we need is some players who can move the ball and play well with each other. What we need is a well built team that's not boring to watch, lazy in it's play, but consistently fighting to the end. SVG doesn't need to sit there and watch players throw up 3 after 3 and when they lose, cry about their lack of defense; teach them to play the right way.

[Oracle]

1. I think Jennings was awesome here.
2. I think JJohnson is overpaid and is only a scorer.
3. I don't think Jennings will be back to what we saw earlier this year for a few years...after he is on his next contract...with the Lakers.
4.  Johnson's shooting would be better than what we have coming off the bench...Meeks.


Suppose:  

Jennings (8M) + JJ (4.5M) + Meeks (6M) + Datome (1.75M) = around 20M

for J.Johnson (23M)

What does this provide?

1.  Jennings is a has been for a couple years.  He is eating up 8M and will not recover for next year.
2.  JJ is gone, Meeks would need to leave if JJohnson is here, Datome is gone.  
3.  This allows us to have a "superstar" who needs to shoot the ball and would be a great addition to our line of Dre and Moose (or whoever fills that space).  He would only be here for one year and would add to the success this year for a playoff push...at worst.
4.  KCP would still be SG and could have JJohnson play SF depending on the matchup.
5.  I really hope they don't trade Singler at this point.  I'm not sure how much he would demand, but he has been in and out of our starting lineup for the last few years.  
6.  We could continue with the 3 PGs we have until something else comes around.

Starting Lineup:  DJ, KCP, JJohnson,Moose, Dre
Bench:  Lucas, Singler, Butler, Tolliver, Anthony

First, I would have included Butler at about 4M to make it easier on us, and maybe Anthony, just to keep Meeks, but it really doesn't matter.

If we did this trade, it in effect kills our future because the vast majority of our CAP space would be gone, and we go from players in the FA market to bystanders looking for scraps.

There's no way I want to be stuck with Johnson and building a team that way, he's not worth it at 33 with another injury plagued season just around the corner.

I'm not sure why SVG would even entertain this unless we were a way to get Johnson to a 3rd team of his choosing, and there was something in there for us!

BTW, I totally agree with you about Jennings! If we can move him, we should because IF a player recovers from that injury, it takes awhile for them to really trust it, which delays how well they'll play!

[Go Stones!]

1. I think Jennings was awesome here.
2. I think JJohnson is overpaid and is only a scorer.
3. I don't think Jennings will be back to what we saw earlier this year for a few years...after he is on his next contract...with the Lakers.
4. Johnson's shooting would be better than what we have coming off the bench...Meeks.


Suppose:

Jennings (8M) + JJ (4.5M) + Meeks (6M) + Datome (1.75M) = around 20M

for J.Johnson (23M)

What does this provide?

1. Jennings is a has been for a couple years. He is eating up 8M and will not recover for next year.
2. JJ is gone, Meeks would need to leave if JJohnson is here, Datome is gone.
3. This allows us to have a "superstar" who needs to shoot the ball and would be a great addition to our line of Dre and Moose (or whoever fills that space). He would only be here for one year and would add to the success this year for a playoff push...at worst.
4. KCP would still be SG and could have JJohnson play SF depending on the matchup.
5. I really hope they don't trade Singler at this point. I'm not sure how much he would demand, but he has been in and out of our starting lineup for the last few years.
6. We could continue with the 3 PGs we have until something else comes around.

Starting Lineup: DJ, KCP, JJohnson,Moose, Dre
Bench: Lucas, Singler, Butler, Tolliver, Anthony

[Oracle]

Allowing Moose to walk, leave Joe Johnson alone and do what Wise suggested; trade J.J. for a second round pick...I'd personally take D. Williams for an interview though.

Draft Frank Kaminsky and let Arnie work his magic on his strength and conditioning since that's the only knock I've heard about the kid...his strength is a concern. Pffft. Whether Draymond is serious about coming home or not, whether the Suns are determined to re-sign Dragic or not, I'm offering the both of them max deals! They'll be a bargain in a year. If I'm willing to let Moose walk, you know that nobody's safe, or as Dumars said, "there are no sacred cows(except the one he was apparently impersonating these past years)!" All the expiring contracts will do just that, expire, and the team options will be let go. Think what you will, there's something to be said about the D-League.

Now we've got a team to test SVG's coaching mettle; Drummond, Kaminsky, Anthony, Williams, Green, Dragic, Jennings, KCP, Meeks, Augustin, Dinwiddie, Tolliver, and a second round draft pick. That'd be Van Gundy's team, all but, Drummond, KCP, and Jennings, and year two should be a sight better than where we're expected to end up this season.

Ridiculous huh?

If I'm looking towards the future, I have to agree that it's the better way to go! I'm not sure how many seasons Joe has left in the tank, but I do know he's paid WAY too much for the privilege!

But I do believe that we need a seasoned PF with at least 4 years of experience, hoping on the draft is dangerous at best!

BTW, why in the world do all of these rumors happen 2 days before the deadline when it's either too late to make a move, or too late to make an intelligent evaluation of the move???

[deusXango]

Allowing Moose to walk, leave Joe Johnson alone and do what Wise suggested; trade J.J. for a second round pick...I'd personally take D. Williams for an interview though.

Draft Frank Kaminsky and let Arnie work his magic on his strength and conditioning since that's the only knock I've heard about the kid...his strength is a concern. Pffft. Whether Draymond is serious about coming home or not, whether the Suns are determined to re-sign Dragic or not, I'm offering the both of them max deals! They'll be a bargain in a year. If I'm willing to let Moose walk, you know that nobody's safe, or as Dumars said, "there are no sacred cows!" All the expiring contracts will do just that, expire, and the team options will be let go. Think what you will, there's something to be said about the D-League.

Now we've got a team to test SVG's coaching mettle; Drummond, Kaminsky, Anthony, Williams, Green, Dragic, Jennings, KCP, Meeks, Augustin, Dinwiddie, Tolliver, and a second round draft pick. That'd be Van Gundy's team, all but, Drummond, KCP, and Jennings, and year two should be a sight better than where we're expected to end up this season.

Ridiculous huh?

[WTF]

I would just want the Kings 2nd round pick nothing more, nothing less.

If the Kings offered a 2nd round pick and another player, or a pick & cash, or even a first round pick, from your statement, you would turn it down!

There a lot of danger in interpreting someone's remarks to mean whatever is going on in your head!

BTW, almost all NBA players are "a little cocky, arrogant, self confident", etc.

You're having trouble distinguishing between normal behavior and delusion. It's delusional to say some of those things out loud, like Harden said!

If you're really all you think you are, others say it, you don't have to... but the delusional don't see that!

Most Oracles are delusional swearing they can see into the future, living in caves eating boogers and insects

You see it would be delusional to think the Kings would offer up a 1st round pick for JJ and though some extra change would be okay but I don't  think we'll get a player back we really would use. However who knows what the future holds Oh Great Oracle

Defensive and wrong to the end.

If I had a nickel for every strange trade that made no sense done in the NBA, I'd have enough money to get you some good mental help

You simply will NEVER see that what you said has no relation to the weak defense you just employed, just like the FACT that a smart NBA player may say something out loud that doesn't really reflect where he really stands on an issue.

Nuance escapes you as you rush to judgments, and a simple admission that KCP may not harbor the intent of his words as confused by you, is just too hard for you to bear. Just like I knew what you really meant, but it didn't match the words, and even then you can't accept YOUR words, and use weak arguments to defend them.

The real and simple truth is that you really didn't mean you won't accept more, but you need to look at yourself and figure out why that's so hard for you to say.

Oh well, I'll be a corpse before the NBA gives me those nickels, likely the same for you ever admitting anything

Oracle if I admit t nothing would that be admitting to something I suppose some mental help might be required it's been a long 11 years since that last Championship.

BTW why is nuances only relevant when you suggest they are? KCP never offer clarification after his comments so I'm not really sure what the intent of his word were I just know that at the time they sound stupid for him say and I didn't like them. Problem is KCP still haven't cleared that up to date so should I just guess that he didn't mean it.

[Oracle]

Oracle, I'm passing on Nik Stauskas (as much as I love the guy's moxie and potential) as long as there's hope we can sign Goran Dragic away from the Suns. That being said, J.J. straight up for Derrick Williams could turn out to be a real coup; a second round pick for the #2 pick? Child please! If SVG is all the coach/teacher/motivator many of us thinks he is, then Williams, Tolliver, Meeks, and Augustin could become quite a bench in this league. All it's going to cost us is a 25 game looksee to determine if he's worth going forward with; we already know what Jerebko brings to the table.

Valid point! If Nik was 2-3 inches taller, he would make a good backup SF until he matures. However, Williams is worth taking a real shot for the rest of the season to see where he is.

With us possibly losing Monroe, we need to at least have one or two backup plans on the old drawing board!

Looking at the stuff on the left, all of a sudden possible trades are coming out of the woodwork, of course mostly BS, but fun anyway!

Green coming home, Joe Johnson solving our SF problem... Oh My!!

[Oracle]

I would just want the Kings 2nd round pick nothing more, nothing less.

If the Kings offered a 2nd round pick and another player, or a pick & cash, or even a first round pick, from your statement, you would turn it down!

There a lot of danger in interpreting someone's remarks to mean whatever is going on in your head!

BTW, almost all NBA players are "a little cocky, arrogant, self confident", etc.

You're having trouble distinguishing between normal behavior and delusion. It's delusional to say some of those things out loud, like Harden said!

If you're really all you think you are, others say it, you don't have to... but the delusional don't see that!

Most Oracles are delusional swearing they can see into the future, living in caves eating boogers and insects

You see it would be delusional to think the Kings would offer up a 1st round pick for JJ and though some extra change would be okay but I don't  think we'll get a player back we really would use. However who knows what the future holds Oh Great Oracle

Defensive and wrong to the end.

If I had a nickel for every strange trade that made no sense done in the NBA, I'd have enough money to get you some good mental help

You simply will NEVER see that what you said has no relation to the weak defense you just employed, just like the FACT that a smart NBA player may say something out loud that doesn't really reflect where he really stands on an issue.

Nuance escapes you as you rush to judgments, and a simple admission that KCP may not harbor the intent of his words as confused by you, is just too hard for you to bear. Just like I knew what you really meant, but it didn't match the words, and even then you can't accept YOUR words, and use weak arguments to defend them.

The real and simple truth is that you really didn't mean you won't accept more, but you need to look at yourself and figure out why that's so hard for you to say.

Oh well, I'll be a corpse before the NBA gives me those nickels, likely the same for you ever admitting anything

[deusXango]

Jerebko, under cap rules, could be traded straight up for Carl Landry, Derrick Williams, Jason Thompson, Darren Collison or Ben McLemore.

The Kings wouldn’t deal Collison or McLemore. The Pistons shouldn’t take Landry or Thompson – both of whom would add long-term salary beyond this season, which is the final year of Jerebko’s contract.

That leaves Williams, and I’d jump on that if I were Detroit.

Jerebko is better right now, but Williams is four years ago and was the No. 2 overall pick just four years ago. Williams has yet to find a role in the NBA – he’s stuck between a three and a four – but I haven’t abandoned hope for him. He’s still talented, and I’d give Stan Van Gundy a chance to work with him. Jerebko, stuck behind Anthony Tolliver, isn’t really helping the Pistons win now, anyway.

There's another train of thought!

Why not make a play for Nik Stauskas? Throw in Datome if needed.

Oracle, I'm passing on Nik Stauskas (as much as I love the guy's moxie and potential) as long as there's hope we can sign Goran Dragic away from the Suns. That being said, J.J. straight up for Derrick Williams could turn out to be a real coup; a second round pick for the #2 pick? Child please! If SVG is all the coach/teacher/motivator many of us thinks he is, then Williams, Tolliver, Meeks, and Augustin could become quite a bench in this league. All it's going to cost us is a 25 game looksee to determine if he's worth going forward with; we already know what Jerebko brings to the table.

I beg to differ on Tolliver; we're not losing because of Tolliver, but he is helping with the wins since he's been here.

[WTF]

I would just want the Kings 2nd round pick nothing more, nothing less.

If the Kings offered a 2nd round pick and another player, or a pick & cash, or even a first round pick, from your statement, you would turn it down!

There a lot of danger in interpreting someone's remarks to mean whatever is going on in your head!

BTW, almost all NBA players are "a little cocky, arrogant, self confident", etc.

You're having trouble distinguishing between normal behavior and delusion. It's delusional to say some of those things out loud, like Harden said!

If you're really all you think you are, others say it, you don't have to... but the delusional don't see that!

Most Oracles are delusional swearing they can see into the future, living in caves eating boogers and insects

You see it would be delusional to think the Kings would offer up a 1st round pick for JJ and though some extra change would be okay but I don't think we'll get a player back we really would use. However who knows what the future holds Oh Great Oracle

[Oracle]

Jerebko, under cap rules, could be traded straight up for Carl Landry, Derrick Williams, Jason Thompson, Darren Collison or Ben McLemore.

The Kings wouldn’t deal Collison or McLemore. The Pistons shouldn’t take Landry or Thompson – both of whom would add long-term salary beyond this season, which is the final year of Jerebko’s contract.

That leaves Williams, and I’d jump on that if I were Detroit.

Jerebko is better right now, but Williams is four years ago and was the No. 2 overall pick just four years ago. Williams has yet to find a role in the NBA – he’s stuck between a three and a four – but I haven’t abandoned hope for him. He’s still talented, and I’d give Stan Van Gundy a chance to work with him. Jerebko, stuck behind Anthony Tolliver, isn’t really helping the Pistons win now, anyway.

There's another train of thought!

Why not make a play for Nik Stauskas? Throw in Datome if needed.

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