KCP Sucks

[WTF]

Don. here's something we can agree on and that's KCP. KCP is a scorer that's all he'll ever be but I'm not sure how effectively of a scorer he'll ever be but he's not a player you can just fit into structured offensive scheme and expect shining results on a consistent basis. He was allow to run wild at Georgia with very little structure surrounding him because he was the team best scorer.

I was quite skeptical of KCP over the summer because he was having a great SL over lesser or equal talent so I'm not surprise by the fall off in his game, again we would be better off if we kept Stuckey and started him and Meeks. KCP can't shoot lets not mistake a scorer for a shooter, and please lets not mistake him of being a scorer with the ability to shoot he's not a MJ or Kobe and we had no business selecting him with the 8th overall pick.

[WTF]

Though Singler is a proven winner and a relatively complete player at this point in his career, there are questions surrounding the extent of his upside, as he doesn't seem to have improved a great deal over the past few years. Not possessing the size or strength to operate effectively in the post, or the quickness and ball-handling skills to be a great shot-creator on the wing, there are some concerns about whether Singler is destined for a role as a one-dimensional player, one who is not particularly consistent at that particular dimension—shooting.

The fact that Singler has been a role-player essentially throughout his college career, doing so on a competitive and winning team throughout, will play in his favor, though. He is not the type of player who will need to make a huge transition in his style of play to make an impact. Furthermore, he's ready to contribute immediately, as he's a mature player both physically and mentally, who has been coached by one of the most respected men in basketball over the past four years. These things, along with his strong intangibles, could all look very attractive to a good team drafting in the second half of the first round looking for a solid piece to add to their rotation.


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz3MIvm0CPD
http://www.draftexpress.com

The building up of Kyle being more than a role player needs to stop. That's what he is and what he'll always be so no more Kyle is this or Kyle is that and making tons of excuses for him. Kyle should only have 6 attempts a game and because of that he needs to make the most of his attempts but Kyle can't be consistent in a starting role. If there was ever a time that a draft report was dead on it's this report because Kyle is at best a role player unfortunate for him his not on an elite or competitive team.

[cool breeze]

No.  SVG says (via mlive): "We're not playing with enough energy. That's the issue, and however we address that, we address it ...."

If he'd say "the issue" was roster imbalance, poor shooting, or ponderous PG play I'd perk up my ears.

If he means lack of energy is the issue that can be dealt with most directly, so it's the one that needs to be highlighted, then maybe.  I'm hoping this is another instance of things being said for effect, rather than one that reveals his deepest insights.  

A lot of times the energy's been pretty good, even though it's also true that they've played flat at times.  If we had a workable plan, on offense, for instance, I think we'd see energy come with that plan, with players moving and sharing the ball.  In the case of the offense, the flatness seems to be more the aftereffect of the lack of a working design rather than the cause.  

Also, if he told me lack of sustained energy for a full four quarters was "the" issue, I might be buying it.  The team's strangely erratic, even against Dallas last night.  They have deadly valleys in performance.  Even then, I'm not sure how much of that is caused by lack of energy.

Good post Sparma. Is it legal to water board players who are not giving proper amount of energy in these games? It was clear to me in this last game that the energy level was high in the first quarter which has been the norm in games over the past month. Then the dysfunctional point guard play gets worse when Augustin enters the game and the combinations of big men playing together look flat especially on defense. If things don't go really good at the start of the 2nd quarter, Monroe can be seen going through the motions, failing to catch a catchable ball, not even trying to get off the ground for a defensive rebound etc. Is that an example of playing with low energy? A lot of Stan's players put it in a lower gear for awhile at times. But what puzzles me the most is the 3rd quarter blues that hit this team. They don't come out playing hard in the 3rd and the result is usually some quick Detroit fouls and then complete lack of movement on offense. The point guards and 2 guards along with the big men get beat by the opposing team when they bring the ball up court even when the opposing team is not pushing the basketball. Van Gundy makes no adjustments or creates any punishment during these low production moments so the players think it is OK to walk back on defense. There is never a correction taking place or recognition by the coaches that something is wrong. Pretty soon the opposing team has built up a nice double digit lead going into the 4th quarter.

[cool breeze]

Don. Don. Singler plain and simple sucks as a starter! The gaudy shooting percentages you've pointed out makes my stomach flip when as a starting SF Singler can't/doesn't average 10 points a game. Your two favorite arguments for Singler doesn't make sense; (1) he doesn't get "touches" and (2) SVG makes him station himself in the corner behind the air ball, excuse me, 3 point line. He plainly doesn't put offensive pressure on the opposing team, playing a position that should always demand defensive attention.

It's not practical to compare Singler support to those who were fed up with Knight turning the ball over; Knight worked hard on developing his body and game, but wasn't given a fair chance (Dumars blunder), whereas Singler works on his sideshow act that makes him "Buckets." Cute, but doesn't do a damn thing for the game of basketball. In the same breath you mentioned Butler, however, combined they don't average 20 points a game! We can do better.

I'm in total agreement with all that you say about our sorry ass PG play and the ridiculous promoting of them by Van Gundy. I've already made my feeling known about a workable solution for our backcourt; Meeks was signed as an undersized SG and it made good fodder for debate, Meeks vs. KCP, but as a defensive PG playing alongside KCP we would have a stronger starting backcourt, IMHO, and Dinwiddie as 6th man would complete a backcourt rotation that's far superior to what SVG is stubbornly sticking with today! Trade Jennings and Augustin somehow!

SG? Corey Brewer is on the block again....why not? Singler is already a non-factor defensively, so why not move him back there; he'd get his "touches." Consider the size of our perimeter players....Meeks (PG), Dinwiddie (PG), KCP (SG), Singler (SG), and Jerebko (SF). Isn't that bringing balance to an unbalanced team? Save Butler's ass for a late season run (if it seems to make any sense) and watch how well Drummond and Smith play together, after a realignment of the backcourt.

Now to the point that's been consistently ignored; outside of Brendan Malone, who the f@ck are these assistant coaches and what can they really be counted on to teach a young, rebuilding team? Quinton Richardson? Come on man! What did "Q" do other than shot the ball, during his playing career, and that's our biggest problem today, shooting! Tim Hardaway? He was an out-cold scorer, I'll give him that, but the team struggles to score. My point is, shooting and scoring is not taught, it's something that's developed by dedicated, hard work, on the individual players part. What this team lacks is the basic knowledge of defensive positioning and offensive schemes, which SVG can't handle all on his own. This is going to account for none movement during the trade window and if trades are made, they're going to suck because SVG can't act as a pro-active president and GM Bowers doesn't strike me as anything more than Joe Dumars 2.0!

Monroe, Jennings, Augustin, and Singler should be traded and the reason why, they're integral parts of a non-performing team and going forward, they have no real value to this teams rebuilding efforts.  

dX I will continue to agree to disagree with you relating to Singler's value to any team. My post only presented the facts which are backed up by the stats. Look at the average amount of shots taken per game and for sure both Singler and Butler are getting about half of what the point guards and shooting guards get. So why is that happening? It happens because the coaches have created a lame offense where there is no movement and very little screening taking place. Maybe Singler and Butler would be bench warmers on the few good teams in the league right now but I doubt it. The players who would be the bench warmers would be Jennings, Augustin, KCP and Meeks. Meeks only increased his scoring average because LA Lakers management decided to tank last season. My complaint with posters on this forum is that they are placing the blame for Piston loses where it doesn't belong. I pointed out where the blame should be placed and those observations are backed up by the stats relating to the average attempted shots per game and each players percentages of makes. If the two small forwards are averaging 12 to 14 attempts per game together and point guards and shooting guards are attempting 22 to 24 that means that the combinations of point guards and shooting guards are attempting up to 48 to 50 shots a game and averaging in the 300s as a group. So why in hell talk about Singler and Butler? With this crew of point guards and shooting guards, if you had an an All Star caliber small forward, they would still only get perhaps 7 touches a game in Stan's offense. None of the 4 players playing the most critical positions for a team Jennings, Augustin, Meeks or KCP would see the floor based on the way they have played so far this season on any playoff caliber team.

Too much fantasy is involved when fans and management talk about the value of KCP. First off, I saw this kid play in college and was not impressed at all. He played on a horrible college team though but still, there were a lot of college players who showed more than KCP did in the year the Pistons drafted him. You made a statement that somehow KCP has shown this season that he could be part of a good defensive back court. I disagree based on what he has done so far this season. To me, KCP is not playing defense as well this season as he did last season. When comparing Brandon Knight's first season as a defender and then moving to his second season, it was clear that Knight had spent a lot of time in the gym working on his body, conditioning and his positioning on defense. It was like night and day. KCP is getting beat a lot this season. He is coming out to his man and making a jump stop at times and his man blows by him. He also commits a lot of stupid fouls with shooters attempting 3 point shots at critical times in games. Does KCP have the right stuff and does he deserve the minutes he is getting this season? Hell no! What I don't like about Van Gundy is the fact that he allows players to make several mistakes in a short period of time. And I am referring to mental mistakes. There are other players who want to play who are sitting on the bench and if a coach doesn't base playing time on performance, he has lost his team.

People are now saying Stan Van Gundy is still an extremely smart coach and he is deliberately trying to lose games by playing the players that I am writing about who are hurting the team. Or Stan is playing them because he is trying to trade them. I doubt that any of this is true. You have made a great point in this post dX relating to the quality of assistant coaches that Van Gundy hired. That tells me a lot about this coach that fits with the mistakes he has made so far as a head coach with his free agent signings and his rotation system. Every player on this team wants to be traded including Andre Drummond. What if the so called franchise player wants out of paradise at the Palace? Players hate playing on a loser and before empty seats. It will be interesting to see how this plays out but Stan Van Gundy as possibly created a nightmare situation for all Piston fans who want to hope for something good to happen.

One final thought regarding the idea of trading Singler. Such a move might turn out to be another give away like the Arron Affalo give away. I think that next season Singler will be making 1.5 mil. Is that right? He is young and all previous coaching staffs have had him in their starting lineup. Why because they see him work hard every day and because he is a smart guy who will get better. He is also one of the few players who have ever been on a winning team meaning winning championships. Singler was the MVP his junior season and his team won it all. In Europe, Kyle's team won their championship as well. Singler has always been a winner. Could it be that there is something toxic with his teammates this year? Is that possible? Giving away Singler will have about the same impact as the time when Joe Dumars woke up after a donut binge and decided that Brandon Knight was not a point guard. He brought on Calderon from Toronto who didn't make the team run any better. Meanwhile, Knight became a good 3 point shooter at the 2 guard position. He beat out Stuckey again at that position. Then fans said that Knight cannot play the shooting guard position well enough and they wanted more of Stuckey. Yes he was a bust according to many posters and apparently good old Joe Dumars felt the same way when he gave Brandon away for nothing to the Bucks. I wonder if Knight sends any postcards to Joe Dumars. I hope he makes the All Star game soon.

[Sparma]

No. SVG says (via mlive): "We're not playing with enough energy. That's the issue, and however we address that, we address it ...."

If he'd say "the issue" was roster imbalance, poor shooting, or ponderous PG play I'd perk up my ears.

If he means lack of energy is the issue that can be dealt with most directly, so it's the one that needs to be highlighted, then maybe. I'm hoping this is another instance of things being said for effect, rather than one that reveals his deepest insights.

A lot of times the energy's been pretty good, even though it's also true that they've played flat at times. If we had a workable plan, on offense, for instance, I think we'd see energy come with that plan, with players moving and sharing the ball. In the case of the offense, the flatness seems to be more the aftereffect of the lack of a working design rather than the cause.

Also, if he told me lack of sustained energy for a full four quarters was "the" issue, I might be buying it. The team's strangely erratic, even against Dallas last night. They have deadly valleys in performance. Even then, I'm not sure how much of that is caused by lack of energy.

[WTF]

SVG is showcasing players perhaps the entire tem is on display but definitely Greg, Brandon, Josh and might I include both Kyle and KCP that are being shop heavily. I expect a move or two before the New Year.

[Oracle]

Any further negative talk about Josh Smith is foolish as well. Smith is not the problem and none of the big men are the problem. What team has ever won with point guards like ours or 2 guards who continue to attempt low percentage shots, do not pass well, do not defend well and who shoot worse than any 2 guard in the league. This is no mystery Piston fans. - Don

This is the worst year of any of the previous 6.  - Seb

Tim Hardaway? He was an out-cold scorer, I'll give him that, but the team struggles to score. My point is, shooting and scoring is not taught, it's something that's developed by dedicated, hard work, on the individual players part. What this team lacks is the basic knowledge of defensive positioning and offensive schemes, which SVG can't handle all on his own. This is going to account for none movement during the trade window and if trades are made, they're going to suck because SVG can't act as a pro-active president and GM Bowers doesn't strike me as anything more than Joe Dumars 2.0!

Monroe, Jennings, Augustin, and Singler should be traded and the reason why, they're integral parts of a non-performing team and going forward, they have no real value to this teams rebuilding efforts. - DX

[deusXango]

Don. Don. Singler plain and simple sucks as a starter! The gaudy shooting percentages you've pointed out makes my stomach flip when as a starting SF Singler can't/doesn't average 10 points a game. Your two favorite arguments for Singler doesn't make sense; (1) he doesn't get "touches" and (2) SVG makes him station himself in the corner behind the air ball, excuse me, 3 point line. He plainly doesn't put offensive pressure on the opposing team, playing a position that should always demand defensive attention.

It's not practical to compare Singler support to those who were fed up with Knight turning the ball over; Knight worked hard on developing his body and game, but wasn't given a fair chance (Dumars blunder), whereas Singler works on his sideshow act that makes him "Buckets." Cute, but doesn't do a damn thing for the game of basketball. In the same breath you mentioned Butler, however, combined they don't average 20 points a game! We can do better.

I'm in total agreement with all that you say about our sorry ass PG play and the ridiculous promoting of them by Van Gundy. I've already made my feeling known about a workable solution for our backcourt; Meeks was signed as an undersized SG and it made good fodder for debate, Meeks vs. KCP, but as a defensive PG playing alongside KCP we would have a stronger starting backcourt, IMHO, and Dinwiddie as 6th man would complete a backcourt rotation that's far superior to what SVG is stubbornly sticking with today! Trade Jennings and Augustin somehow!

SG? Corey Brewer is on the block again....why not? Singler is already a non-factor defensively, so why not move him back there; he'd get his "touches." Consider the size of our perimeter players....Meeks (PG), Dinwiddie (PG), KCP (SG), Singler (SG), and Jerebko (SF). Isn't that bringing balance to an unbalanced team? Save Butler's ass for a late season run (if it seems to make any sense) and watch how well Drummond and Smith play together, after a realignment of the backcourt.

Now to the point that's been consistently ignored; outside of Brendan Malone, who the f@ck are these assistant coaches and what can they really be counted on to teach a young, rebuilding team? Quinton Richardson? Come on man! What did "Q" do other than shot the ball, during his playing career, and that's our biggest problem today, shooting! Tim Hardaway? He was an out-cold scorer, I'll give him that, but the team struggles to score. My point is, shooting and scoring is not taught, it's something that's developed by dedicated, hard work, on the individual players part. What this team lacks is the basic knowledge of defensive positioning and offensive schemes, which SVG can't handle all on his own. This is going to account for none movement during the trade window and if trades are made, they're going to suck because SVG can't act as a pro-active president and GM Bowers doesn't strike me as anything more than Joe Dumars 2.0!

Monroe, Jennings, Augustin, and Singler should be traded and the reason why, they're integral parts of a non-performing team and going forward, they have no real value to this teams rebuilding efforts.

[cool breeze]

I know that some of the same posters who wanted Brandon Knight traded are the same posters who want to blame Singler for the loses and make statements that Kyle should be at best a 9th or 10th man on that team. If you are watching the games, I just don't get where you are coming from. But the proof that you are wrong is in the details or facts that tell the truth. Are you interested in the truth or must you create a world according to the way you want it to be??? The truth is in the stats and this should be important to Stan Van Gundy who also has ignored the truth and has damaged the team because of it.

STATS SHOW THE TRUTH:

Did you know that Kyle Singler only has attempted 6.2 shots per game so far this season?
Did you know that Singler has the highest 3 point field goal percentage on the team=429%??
Did you know that only Anthony 600%, Drummond 484%, JEREBCO 480%, and Monroe 471% have higher field goal percentages than Singler 435%???
Did you know that the other small forward Butler only attempts 6.1 shots per game and he shoots field goals at a 403% clip and his 3 point shooting percentage is 354%????
Both of our small forwards are known throughout the league as average to good defenders with the exception of Piston fans. This is why I that the demise of the Pistons is not the fault of either Singler or Butler on this team. So talk all you want to but you will be wrong just like you were wrong about Brandon Knight.

THE FOLLOWING IS THE MAIN REASON WHY THIS TEAM IS LOSING SO MANY GAMES.

1. Horrible point guard play on the defensive end and offensive end by Jennings and Augustin.

Jennings is attempting 11.2 shots per game which is almost double that a of Singer and Butler. He is only making 368% of his field goal attempts. His 3 point shooting percentage is 323%. He shoots a respectable 86% at the foul line.

Augustin is Stan Van Gundy's closer. Somehow Stan believes that DJ is the clutch crunch time performer. But not considering his horrible defensive performances in crunch time, Augustin is making only 359% of his shot attempts and an inept 257% of his 3 point attempts. Augustin is clearly not a closer type NBA player so the fault falls not on DJ for the current record. It all falls on Stan Van Gundy for poor player rotation decision making.

2. Horrible play by the shooting guards might be equally as bad as the point guard play on both ends of the floor.

KCP: I watched KCP in action closely last night he was out of position much of the time and could not stop any dribble penetration. He is gambling which is the opposite of what Van Gundy has taught him. But the devil is in the details relating to the stats on KCP. Pope shoots a lot of low percentage shots where is is off balance. It doesn't seem to bother him either. Pope is shooting an average of 11.4 times per game and is only making 375% of his field goal attempts. His 3 point shooting percentage is also bad at 340%. Also, how many NBA 2 guards average only 68% from the foul line?

Meeks: Meeks is showing that he is also a poor defender of 2 guards so far. And he is worse than KCP at shooting the basketball.Meeks is only making 351% of his field goal attempts and 333% of his 3 point shots. He has shot 100% at the foul line but hasn't had many attempts yet.

3. Stan Van Gundy: Piston fans do you think that Tom Gores has been furnished with this information? Do the owners ever look at this stuff? Stan Van Gundy is one of the few coaches that I have ever known who continues to endorse players at skill positions relating to point guard and shooting guard. Any fan who continues to promote the idea that the players occupying the small forward position can easily be defeated with logic and reason. Maybe our small forwards are not elite players but they are better shooters, passers, foul shooters, and defenders than the point guards and shooting guards.

Any further negative talk about Josh Smith is foolish as well. Smith is not the problem and none of the big men are the problem. What team has ever won with point guards like ours or 2 guards who continue to attempt low percentage shots, do not pass well, do not defend well and who shoot worse than any 2 guard in the league. This is no mystery Piston fans. Remember Richard Hamilton's shooting percentages through the years when he was a Piston. Remember how Billups or Thomas ran their teams? Big change is needed but this coach is a coward. One example of his weak leadership is who he has selected to shoot technicals. Why is Brandon Knight shooting those shots if Singler is on the floor or Jerebco or even Meeks. Jerebco and Meeks are shooting 100% and Singler is shooting 94% from the line. It was funny when Wisefan bitched about Singler saying he can't even make a free throw as two games ago. It is easy to focus on the wrong thing. Stan Van Gundy likes it when the fans are not thinking about his point guards and shooting guards. He thinks that if Jennings, Augustin, Meeks or KCP have one good shooting game a month, fans will not get on his back for being an idiot coach. Stan is afraid of Brandon Jennings. He can't trade this player and the owner is paying Brandon a lot of money. So I appreciate all previous coaches who did the right thing when they coached because they all placed a highly paid player ( Charlie V) at the end of the bench where he belonged. This is where the point guards and shooting guards should be located this season - at the end of the bench. Bring up some D League players and do the right thing for Piston fans who buy the tickets. No team wanted Rodney Stuckey last season and no team wanted Charlie V. Stuckey earned playing time last year but Charlie didn't so two different coaching staffs placed him at the end of the bench. My bet is that Stan Van Gundy would have ignored the facts and played Charlie 22 minutes a game. Under Stan's system, if you are a low earner like Spencer Dinwiddie, then you get screwed. Yes Stan keeps things simple. I do see that the Piston defense looks better at times than they did last season but in many respects the offense is much worse under Van Gundy.

[Fennis Dembo]

This was the conversation between Charlie Villanueva, Josh Smith, and Brandon Jennings before last night's game.

Villanueva: How are you guys doing?
Smith: Everybody is on my back criticizing me for my shooting. I get blamed for everything. They might as well change my number to 666. I'm the Rosemary's Baby of the NBA.
Jennings: All we do is lose and it's all the point guard's fault. You shoot too much. You pass the ball too much. You dribble too much. You miss the open man too much.

Villanueva: I had five long losing seasons in Detroit. I took a lot of blame too. I made lots of money, but that's when my career went entirely into the dumpster. Now I only get to play during garbage time in blowouts against Philadelphia and teams that are tanking.
Smith: I wish I had gone to another team for less money. This place is basketball's version of hell.
Villanueva: I used to call it Villanueva's Inferno. You two should get out of town, the sooner the better. I made eight million last year. This year I'm making less than a million. The same thing will happen to you guys if you finish out your contracts here. Your earning power will really take a nosedive. Get your agents to get you on another team as soon as possible. There is no future here for you. Van Gundy is clueless.

Jennings: They should take Jennings off my uniform and put on Scapegoat. I'm still young. I want to be on a good team. Here I feel about as welcome as Seth Rogan in North Korea.
Villanueva: This year is the first winning team I've been on since college. It doesn't suck at all. Not much negativity and nobody plays the blame game. It's a refreshing change.

Smith: The crowds are sparse here. It's depressing.
Jennings: There was a bigger crowd at my agent's kid's Bar Mitzvah.
Villanueva: There was more noise at my nephew's first communion party.
Smith: The last game here, I could hear a guy in the twentieth row slurping his Coke and burping the alphabet.

Jennings: I keep having a dream where the crowd shows up with torches and pitchforks and they're not coming for Frankenstein. They're coming for the team.
Villanueva: And nothing here ever gets any better. Did you see that fat bastard Dumars was bribing writers to put a positive spin on stuff to make him look good while everything was going to hell in a hand basket. Meanwhile they made me look like the proverbial turd in the punchbowl.

Jennings: Well it was good to talk to you about your experiences.
Villanueva: I have felt your pain and misery and unfortunately for you it will continue tonight when we inflict upon you your eleventh straight home loss. I hope you guys get your one way tickets out of town real soon. You deserve better. It's time to get the hell out of Dodge City before the posse shows up with pitchforks and torches.

[cool breeze]

I have one question that should be asked to GM/Head Coach: What is the plan going forward?

- As the GM, Stan should be attempting to do something, damn near anything to alter this failing roster.

- As the Head Coach, Stan should come up with something to put a more competitive scheme together and when I say competitive I mean from the tip to the final buzzer. The line-ups that he has started with are not working. Try something different. The obvious starting line-up change would be to start Jerebko at the SF position in the place of Singler, but some strange reason Head Coach Stan refuses to allow Jerebko to remove his warm-up, before the final minute of the third quarter.

There were a few things that I notice, during last night's game:

1- Brandon Jennings never had his jersey securely tucked in his shorts. From the beginning of the game all the way through. The dude looked sloppy and he continues to wear a look of disdain and disinterest. GM Stan needs to trade this guy, because B. Jennings does not want to be a Piston.

2- F@ckin' Jodie Meeks is not worthy of a $6 million/ 3 year contract. The dude cannot guard anyone and he is only a jump shot taker. Oh, and did anyone see the black strip thing that he was wearing on his right calf. This guys lift is highly questionable.

3- Single hit his first two threes. Big whoop! Then he shot his customary air balls and missed layups. Singler is not a starting SF. He is a 9th or 10th-man.

4- Moose's value drops every time he steps onto the floor.

5- Did anybody hear Zeke on NBA TV? Zeke said that he is embarrassed by the lack of effort defensive effort that the Pistons play with. And, he sounded disgusted by what OUR Pistons have become.

What are OUR chances of beating the Toronto Raptors on Friday, a team with Conference Championship aspirations?

This is the worst year of any of the previous 6.

Good comments Seb. You forgot one other important observation that I have previously pointed out. It is not Jennings who is finishing games this season. It is the one and only DJ Augustin. Watch this player on defense. He looks worse than Jennings. He cannot run an offense to save his life. I would prefer Jennings over Augustin but both players would struggle in the D League. To me, the biggest error made by Stan Van Gundy was not properly evaluating the potential of Jennings and Augustin as real NBA players. They are not. I would prefer the wild and crazy Josh Smith playing point forward and bringing the basketball up court to set up the half court offense over our point guards. There is no way that Spencer Dinwiddie is not a better player and point guard than either of Stan's pets.

[Sebastian]

I have one question that should be asked to GM/Head Coach: What is the plan going forward?

- As the GM, Stan should be attempting to do something, damn near anything to alter this failing roster.

- As the Head Coach, Stan should come up with something to put a more competitive scheme together and when I say competitive I mean from the tip to the final buzzer. The line-ups that he has started with are not working. Try something different. The obvious starting line-up change would be to start Jerebko at the SF position in the place of Singler, but some strange reason Head Coach Stan refuses to allow Jerebko to remove his warm-up, before the final minute of the third quarter.

There were a few things that I notice, during last night's game:

1- Brandon Jennings never had his jersey securely tucked in his shorts. From the beginning of the game all the way through. The dude looked sloppy and he continues to wear a look of disdain and disinterest. GM Stan needs to trade this guy, because B. Jennings does not want to be a Piston.

2- F@ckin' Jodie Meeks is not worthy of a $18 million/ 3 year contract. The dude cannot guard anyone and he is only a jump shot taker. Oh, and did anyone see the black strip thing that he was wearing on his right calf. This guys lift is highly questionable.

3- Single hit his first two threes. Big whoop! Then he shot his customary air balls and missed layups. Singler is not a starting SF. He is a 9th or 10th-man.

4- Moose's value drops every time he steps onto the floor.

5- Did anybody hear Zeke on NBA TV? Zeke said that he is embarrassed by the lack of effort defensive effort that the Pistons play with. And, he sounded disgusted by what OUR Pistons have become.

What are OUR chances of beating the Toronto Raptors on Friday, a team with Conference Championship aspirations?

This is the worst year of any of the previous 6.

[deusXango]

Will someone please explain to me why SVG is stubbornly sticking with this awful rotation? Look at the night-to-night numbers and results, then explain his reasoning for not looking in another direction! Does he fear losing? Does he fear looking bad? WTF is going through this mans head?

[WTF]

It's simple!

If you have a very good relationship, then it's at least possible that Monroe would entertain a sign & trade deal so that we do get something, like Grant Hill did!

Why would Monroe do this? To get the maximum amount of money from a team that may not have enough cash to make it happen otherwise,

In the National Basketball Association, a sign-and-trade agreement is a type of contract allowed in the collective bargaining agreement (CBA) wherein one team signs an unrestricted free agent to a contract and trades him to another team of the player's choosing. This is typically done to allow the eventual acquiring team to offer the player a higher salary and/or a greater number of years than would ordinarily be permitted under the NBA salary cap.

Grant would have never pull that QO sh!t either so don't bank on it. A sign and trade would be the best option come summer but it won't kill them if it doesn't happen. If greed is Monhoe's motive he'll still need us to help facilitate him getting max dollars. SVG don't have to kiss his ass.

[deusXango]

Joe signed the wrong Milwaukee guard; he should have went after Monta Ellis...he was cheaper too! I know, I know, character issues.

[Sparma]

I think -- as I think you're saying, Oracle -- that a sign-and-trade after the season is our best hope. An in-season trade of Monroe seems like quite a longshot.

It's simple!

If you have a very good relationship, then it's at least possible that Monroe would entertain a sign & trade deal so that we do get something, like Grant Hill did!

Why would Monroe do this? To get the maximum amount of money from a team that may not have enough cash to make it happen otherwise,

In the National Basketball Association, a sign-and-trade agreement is a type of contract allowed in the collective bargaining agreement (CBA) wherein one team signs an unrestricted free agent to a contract and trades him to another team of the player's choosing. This is typically done to allow the eventual acquiring team to offer the player a higher salary and/or a greater number of years than would ordinarily be permitted under the NBA salary cap.

[deusXango]

Sweet! Sparma, that was a great piece of research on your part and something worth knowing. It answers a lot of unanswered questions and now I know why Karen Davidson wanted to get out of Dodge.

The black marks held against Isiah Thomas was the fines he received in New York, maybe he can be considered to come home in light of this.

[Oracle]

It's simple!

If you have a very good relationship, then it's at least possible that Monroe would entertain a sign & trade deal so that we do get something, like Grant Hill did!

Why would Monroe do this? To get the maximum amount of money from a team that may not have enough cash to make it happen otherwise,

In the National Basketball Association, a sign-and-trade agreement is a type of contract allowed in the collective bargaining agreement (CBA) wherein one team signs an unrestricted free agent to a contract and trades him to another team of the player's choosing. This is typically done to allow the eventual acquiring team to offer the player a higher salary and/or a greater number of years than would ordinarily be permitted under the NBA salary cap.

[Sparma]

How is it possible that we spilled buckets of cyberink in 2010 (and since) without knowing that Dumars had been issued the 3rd largest "publicly known" (?!) fine in NBA history? Today's the first I've heard anything about it.

From Kevin Draper's article at the New Republic as it pertains to Dumars and the Pistons:

"But to truly understand how Wojnarowski and his sources operate, there is no better place to look than his relationship with Joe Dumars, who worked as the Detroit Pistons president of basketball operations from 2000 to 2014.

Dumars was very successful for the first half of his executive career, assembling teams that won an NBA Championship and reached six consecutive Eastern Conference Finals. During his final six years in Detroit however—before he “stepped down” instead of being fired—the Pistons were one of the worst teams in the league, largely because of a series of disastrous decisions Dumars made. You would never know about it, though, if you read only Wojnarowski for your Pistons coverage.

With Detroit sliding down the standings, Wojnarowski broke nearly every significant—and insignificant—Pistons story for a half-decade: the Allen Iverson trade, the Amir Johnson trade, drafting Austin Daye, signing Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva, hiring John Kuester, trading Aaron Afflalo, signing Chris Wilcox, signing Ben Wallace, drafting Greg Monroe, signing Tracy McGrady, Rip Hamilton arguing with John Kuester, drafting Brandon Knight, hiring Lawrence Frank, re-signing Tayshuan Prince, re-signing Rodney Stuckey, trading Ben Gordon, signing Josh Smith, signing Chauncey Billups, signing Brandon Jennings, signing Josh Harrellson, and firing Mo Cheeks. While Wojnarowski was busy breaking news about the team, he wasn’t busy analyzing it: Between 2008 and 2012, Wojnarowski didn’t write a negative piece about Dumars or the Pistons, despite the fact that they had transformed from a perennial contender to an also-ran. Instead, Wojnarowski penned several sympathetic profiles of Dumars, including ones that covered his completion of his college degree and another wholly about his defensive skills as a player in the 1980s.

By 2012, Wojnarowski could no longer ignore how poorly Dumars was performing, so he wrote a piece on the Pistons’ rebuilding. It included heavy participation from Dumars and unearned optimism like “Slowly, surely, Dumars is regenerating the Pistons again.” In each of the two seasons after the piece ran, the Pistons went 29–53 and missed qualifying for the playoffs by nine games. It also emphasized Dumars’ strong relationship with coach Lawrence Frank, “who has returned accountability to the locker room.” Dumars would fire Frank six months later.

In 2010, the NBA fined Dumars $500,000 for leaking multiple confidential league memos to Wojnarowski, according to multiple sources. This matches the third largest publicly known fine the league has ever handed down. The NBA decided that too many memos were making it into the media, so they conducted a sting operation over several months. They would change a few words or numbers in different team’s copies of otherwise identical memos, so that when the memos leaked they could spot the small differences and trace them back to the leaker. This approach caught Dumars red-handed, as well as an executive from another team who was fined $12,500 for leaking to a draft-focused website. Joe Dumars, the Detroit Pistons, and the NBA all declined to comment on the fine.

You can at least say this for Wojnarowski’s Pistons coverage: His news scoops were accurate, however he procured them."

Later in the article:

"He brought up nearly a quarter of the league as potential destinations—including devoting one column to the ludicrous idea that James would join the Dumars-led Pistons."

[Sparma]

Betrayal, indeed. Maybe it will come out that this kind of behavior of Joe is routine among NBA executives. Still....

@Sparma - Betrayed by the Fat Man Himself


I wonder if Wojo was kicking back donuts or cash to Dumars  

@Wise - Kobe may not have played against players as smart as the players MJ couldn't beat in their primes, but he absolutely played against better players.

Today's scrubs are more athletic than most of the stars in MJ's era! Don't believe me, get some film of that era! The level of athleticism has dramatically gone up today!

[Oracle]

"Despite his shooting flaws, Smith is still a coveted player in this league because many still see the untapped potential in Smith. It is being rumored that interested teams want compensation like a draft pick for taking on Smith’s big contract.

The Pistons have their hands tied right now, but they need to change their roster. It might be unlikely at this point, but if they can find a taker for Smith, it’s probably something they should jump on."-Vinny Lanni, Rant Sports

How f@ckin' idiotic and insulting can you get?! Josh is coveted "because many still see the untapped potential," but they want compensation for taking on his big contract. It wasn't big when he signed it (as far as Gores was concerned) and we'll pay it all, if it means giving up a draft pick....what about offering us premium draft picks if he's truly coveted!

Our hands are tied? Child please! This dumb ass writer went on to say that "if they can find a taker for Smith, it's probably something they should jump on." Why? Doesn't it appear that Josh has a growing value to the Pistons and when we loose Moose, that value will take a quantum leap? Who covets Monroe and what can we do about that?

We've got better writers on this forum, who spill their noteworthy ideas for free, and that clown gets paid?! Dumbass, unimaginative, sports writers!

DX, Rant is one of the biggest crap operations out there!

Any clown in town knows that NOBODY believes Josh has "Untapped Potential" any more, those days are gone!

Josh has absolutely no value on the open market to speak of, and he's paid twice as much as he's worth now!

Having said that, his only value right now derives from the fact that the Josh Smith Fan Club is right about one thing!

He's head and shoulders better than any other option we have for SF, and equal, just different, than using Monroe at PF!

But that says something about this team, NOT about how fit Josh is for either role, and the answer to that is brain dead simple, but the fan club is scared to answer it or even consider it!

The question is this: If you had a NBA team and needed a SF or PF, would Josh Smith even be on anybody's short list?

We all know that answer... Josh is done, IMO!

[deusXango]

"Despite his shooting flaws, Smith is still a coveted player in this league because many still see the untapped potential in Smith. It is being rumored that interested teams want compensation like a draft pick for taking on Smith’s big contract.

The Pistons have their hands tied right now, but they need to change their roster. It might be unlikely at this point, but if they can find a taker for Smith, it’s probably something they should jump on."-Vinny Lanni, Rant Sports

How f@ckin' idiotic and insulting can you get?! Josh is coveted "because many still see the untapped potential," but they want compensation for taking on his big contract. It wasn't big when he signed it (as far as Gores was concerned) and we'll pay it all, if it means giving up a draft pick....what about offering us premium draft picks if he's truly coveted!

Our hands are tied? Child please! This dumb ass writer went on to say that "if they can find a taker for Smith, it's probably something they should jump on." Why? Doesn't it appear that Josh has a growing value to the Pistons and when we loose Moose, that value will take a quantum leap? Who covets Monroe and what can we do about that?

We've got better writers on this forum, who spill their noteworthy ideas for free, and that clown gets paid?! Dumbass, unimaginative, sports writers!

[Oracle]

@Sparma - Betrayed by the Fat Man Himself


I wonder if Wojo was kicking back donuts or cash to Dumars  

@Wise - Kobe may not have played against players as smart as the players MJ couldn't beat in their primes, but he absolutely played against better players.

Today's scrubs are more athletic than most of the stars in MJ's era! Don't believe me, get some film of that era! The level of athleticism has dramatically gone up today!

[Sparma]

Interesting report at mlive concerning Dumars' 1/2 mil fine:

"But on the occasion of a report Tuesday by The New Republic that included a source-based claim, unconfirmed by the principles, that the NBA fined Joe Dumars $500,000 in 2010 for systematically leaking information to a favored reporter, who in turn wrote positively about him and the Pistons, the depth of need for culture reversal here was underscored.

The report was meticulously researched but, at its core, was an upbraiding of Yahoo! Sports' Adrian Wojnarowski for his cozy reporting style with favored sources, as well as NBA reporters as a whole for breeding a culture of unnamed sources which "assumes anonymity as default." Given the tone of the report, the fact that its most important news scoop, the Dumars fine, was pinned on "multiple sources," none identified, is not inconsequential.

Regardless, Dumars was president of basketball operations at the time, and it was an open secret that he played both ends against the middle via Yahoo! and Wojnarowski, who never wrote negatively about him. Dumars gamed national opinion that way. So did former Pistons coach Lawrence Frank, who also has a positive relationship with Wojnarowski, such that when Frank was about to get fired in 2013, a story posted late one night on Yahoo!, citing unnamed sources, claiming that Frank had demanded the Pistons keep him for two more years or let him go. Frank was fired that same week and already had what amounted to an exit interview with Gores before the report was published. There was no way he was coming back for one more year, much less two, yet Wojnarowski's report allowed Frank's exit to be framed by an unnamed source."

[WTF]

There is some dumbass on the ESPN His & Her who say's that the players Kobe went up against are better than the players MJ had to play against OMG! How Retarded!

Forget that MJ basically couldn't win until Magic, Bird and Zeke where out of the league. Then he totally disrespected Barkly, Dream, Malone, Ewing, Reggie, as all being not being on the level of the current players in the league.

Okay I love Kobe game and he's the closes player to MJ IMO and I think there are players who could have played in 80's and would have had much success in the 90's like Duncan, Lebron, Durant and Kobe. Others like Gasol, Z-Bo, KG, Sheed, Big Ben and Pierce. But I'll be damned if players like Wade, and many of this other soft as players could have survived either decade.

[Sponsored content]