I'm Seriously Thinking Of Replacing Basketball With Soocer

[WTF]

Strange how Josh and Stuckey is getting bashed on several on various forums and media articles considering without these 2 the team would have been lucky to win 5 games this season. Beyond many so called fans lack of NBA knowledge that is engulf in stupidity and biasness of what they perceived being true by way of twitter and instagram not what their actually seeing on the court. These guys accounted for a large chunk of Detroit's offense and carried the team more times than not but they're the bad guys.

Stuckey, as far as his career numbers goes been very consistent during his time here considering trying to play for 6 different coaches in 7 different seasons. F@ck lets see how many of you would respond in your first 7 years of a job and having 6 different bosses with different ideas and attitudes and see how f@cking consistent you are. What ever Stuckey short-comings were they a result of Joe, the various coaches and the organization dysfunctional behavior during the time he was here. I'm hoping he shines over in Indy and not just a little but brighter than he ever could here.

Josh, I swear this subject really is an indication of not only how sh!tty our fan base has become but the league in general has become. How in one season can a fan base hate one player in such a short amount of time. For all the reason they hate him for they could easily hate a number of players on this team more for. But they see Josh as this dream killer (that dumb dream that Moose was PF though he has no PF skills) somehow he killed that dumb ass dream of all these casual fans that Monroe and Drummond would be the greatest big man tandem ever created. Yeah he did all this by making Joe sign him and forcing him to start him at SF.

Two Guys, with more playoff experience than the entire team collectively are constantly bashed. Stuckey because he was suppose to magically overcome the dysfunctions of this organization and make them winners and he didn't, and Josh basically for being a better PF than he is a SF. The idea that Josh is in one season the cause of 4 years of inconsistency by Monroe is insane math and to a normal person the math don't quite add up but in the world of the idiot fan base it's perfect math.

Pistons, have always been my least favorite of Detroit's sport teams basketball as a whole. It will never be as tough as football and hockey nor have the individual heroics as baseball often does. I don't say this to say that I don't enjoy basketball (win it's play correctly) but the stupid fans and the media has taken a lot of joy out of it. Basketball is a team sport and it requires all the players to win, no one players sorry (MJ, Zeke) win games alone and no one player losses games alone, but this is something casual fans and dumb ass media often forget. For Bob Ryan to call Josh useless is just retarded and his dirt old ass should know this.

Saying that a player makes other players around them better was usually applied to the play of your floor leader (PG) players like Magic, MJ, Kobe and Lebron kind of change that. I can't remember a big man where that could be applied to the point of bashing him on it. But some ass hole say's Josh don't make the players around him better to criticize him and then I said to myself neither does anyone on the team including Jennings. But I thought about what player or players hurts the team the most and I kept coming up with Monroe and then Jennings. Josh and Stuckey wasn't even close.

[Murph]

Washed up?  Let's be honest with ourselves.  C-Butts was never that great to begin with.  He's always reminded me of that other UConn Huskie SF, Rudy Gay...questionable BB IQ, defensive liability, injury prone, ball hog.

Just my opinion... Hope I'm wrong...

[Phil-Good]

[quote="Oracle"][quote="Phil1980boy"]



Butler best days are far in the past just like C.Billips best days were in Pistons red, white and blue. But this team needs A older guy who can show the young guys how to be professional. That's Butler number 1 job. And also backing up K.Singler who will be the starting small forward.

As far as Josh Smith goes. He is A wonderful player if anybody from Sacramento is reading this. He is smart, he can jump out the gym, he has great shot selection, he knows what he is good at and not good at. He never plays outside of himself. I love J.Smith.

Know please get this trade done Sacramento. FAST!!!!    

[Oracle]

I think Smith is A legend because you have to be very special to have as low A basketball IQ as Josh Smith has to take all the dumb shots he takes.

And stop making excuses about coaching and the system. Dumb is Dumb!!!

But then again, so is this...

Ticker: ESPN's Bob Ryan calls Detroit Pistons' Josh Smith 'a useless player'

He goes on to call Caron Butler a washed up 34 year old!

Somebody's hating on SVG bigtime      

[Oracle]

As mentioned, I do think the Pistons would match, just as you do Oracle.  I'd doubt they'd do it in a heartbeat though for reasons described below.  From LA's perspective, if they could offer a max for a year, it'd be a low risk, high return gamble.

Would it really lead to the opposite of what you, say as LA, intend?  You'd get to negotiate in detail with someone who may sign with you next summer.  You'd have a chance to evaluate up close as you plan for next summer.  You might get a firm commitment that the player wanted to join your club, something that you could act on the next summer.  Those are significant gains, even if the Pistons did match.  Beyond that, there's the chance that you'd land a near All Star center in a straight signing, without giving up assets. - Good point!

Would it be a pseudo expiring contract?  If so, that would render the scenario moot.  I don't know the answer for sure, but there's reason to think it wouldn't be.  We know that signing a one year contract in the form of a qo would lead to URA next season.   What reason do we have to think that different one year deals wouldn't lead to the same result?  None that I know of, but it's possible.  The burden of proof would seem to be on claiming a one year non qo deal would function differently than a one year qo deal.  Also, my understanding is that there's a default schedule for becoming a RFA and an UFA, a schedule which is altered only by contracts (eg Monroe wouldn't be a UFA next summer if he signed a 60/5 with us).  Can't see what would be altering that schedule in the case of an ordinary one year deal.  There's a fact of matter out there, but not at my disposal, so am reduced to trying to make the best guess on the matter, based on the evidence that we do have. - Actually that's not the question! The question is what's the difference between a QO and any other contract, and the answer is that it's NOT the qualifying offer, it's a brand new separate contract, and length shouldn't be a factor! This, as you stated, totally destroys this line of thought and removes any advantage to the other team or the player, rendering it moot!

Would Monroe be such a great trade commodity?  Another team would need to give up the equivalent of 15.75 mil for a player becoming a UFA (as best I know) next season.   Expiring contracts themselves don't seem to carry nearly the value that they used to.  Maybe a good trade could be arranged with a contender, but that's very far from certain.   What would be certain would be that you'd be taking a ton of money off your budget if he walked next summer.  But, as discussed, that first 5.75 mil would just bring you down to the salary cap.  What you'd have to spend, all things being equal, if Monroe walked away would be ten mil next summer. - Expiring contracts are still like gold, very much as attractive as they ever have been.

But if you'd let him walk now, you'd have that 10 mil to spend now, or during the course of the season as you arranged favorable trades because of being below the salary cap.   So, there's a significant plus to letting him walk now.  At the same time, there are big minuses to having him around, intending to leave, playing on a max contract.  Deus writes: "If he'd be unhappy for a year playing on a Q.O. (because he's still in Detroit) I'm willing to bet he'd be unhappy in Detroit dragging his ass, for real, under a max deal for a year."  I agree and that in a nutshell would be the reason for Detroit to cut the circus short and let him walk away, knowing it'd be able to spend the 10 mil cap space straight away as recompense. - Good Point!  

Why hasn't he been offered a max deal, Deus?  Because he's not worth a longterm max deal, mainly.  Also, because early offers to RFAs have the disadvantage of tying up cap space for 3 days at a time you might be in the running for UFAs.  And at this point, having the space for a max offer would be a great rarity.  Not sure if any team could offer that now.  Turns out the Lakers signed Boozer for 3 mil.  Them making that deal signifies that they were below the salary cap at the time of the signing (to be eligible to bid for an amnestied player), but whether they still are (Ed Davis is also on board, for a cheap contract) and by how much I don't know.

What I'm trying to wrap my head around, Deus, is why no one's tried an exorbitantly high one year offer, even a max deal.  The answer's less straightforward there, I think, than concerning a longterm max deal.

Just a thought experiment, because I'm pretty sure neither the Lakers nor any other team will upset the status quo by experimenting with such a radical strategy.   In a poker game, someone would try the kind of strategy I've outlined.  It's just as well that NBA dealings aren't treated just like poker hands, except that I do have a lingering worry about collusion regarding RFAs. - Just a thought experiment? Yeah, and since there aren't any games to watch, it's fun to look at possibilities, far out or otherwise!

Thanks for engaging with my speculation concerning strategy.  If I have any sense, this will be my last entry on the subject, or very nearly so, because it's far removed from anything likely to happen concerning Monroe and because time's needed elsewhere.

[Phil-Good]

I think Smith is A legend because you have to be very special to have as low A basketball IQ as Josh Smith has to take all the dumb shots he takes.

And stop making excuses about coaching and the system. Dumb is Dumb!!!

[Sparma]

As mentioned, I do think the Pistons would match, just as you do Oracle. I'd doubt they'd do it in a heartbeat though for reasons described below. From LA's perspective, if they could offer a max for a year, it'd be a low risk, high return gamble.

Would it really lead to the opposite of what you, say as LA, intend? You'd get to negotiate in detail with someone who may sign with you next summer. You'd have a chance to evaluate up close as you plan for next summer. You might get a firm commitment that the player wanted to join your club, something that you could act on the next summer. Those are significant gains, even if the Pistons did match. Beyond that, there's the chance that you'd land a near All Star center in a straight signing, without giving up assets.

Would it be a pseudo expiring contract? If so, that would render the scenario moot. I don't know the answer for sure, but there's reason to think it wouldn't be. We know that signing a one year contract in the form of a qo would lead to URA next season. What reason do we have to think that different one year deals wouldn't lead to the same result? None that I know of, but it's possible. The burden of proof would seem to be on claiming a one year non qo deal would function differently than a one year qo deal. Also, my understanding is that there's a default schedule for becoming a RFA and an UFA, a schedule which is altered only by contracts (eg Monroe wouldn't be a UFA next summer if he signed a 60/5 with us). Can't see what would be altering that schedule in the case of an ordinary one year deal. There's a fact of matter out there, but not at my disposal, so am reduced to trying to make the best guess on the matter, based on the evidence that we do have.

Would Monroe be such a great trade commodity? Another team would need to give up the equivalent of 15.75 mil for a player becoming a UFA (as best I know) next season. Expiring contracts themselves don't seem to carry nearly the value that they used to. Maybe a good trade could be arranged with a contender, but that's very far from certain. What would be certain would be that you'd be taking a ton of money off your budget if he walked next summer. But, as discussed, that first 5.75 mil would just bring you down to the salary cap. What you'd have to spend, all things being equal, if Monroe walked away would be ten mil next summer.

But if you'd let him walk now, you'd have that 10 mil to spend now, or during the course of the season as you arranged favorable trades because of being below the salary cap. So, there's a significant plus to letting him walk now. At the same time, there are big minuses to having him around, intending to leave, playing on a max contract. Deus writes: "If he'd be unhappy for a year playing on a Q.O. (because he's still in Detroit) I'm willing to bet he'd be unhappy in Detroit dragging his ass, for real, under a max deal for a year." I agree and that in a nutshell would be the reason for Detroit to cut the circus short and let him walk away, knowing it'd be able to spend the 10 mil cap space straight away as recompense.

Why hasn't he been offered a max deal, Deus? Because he's not worth a longterm max deal, mainly. Also, because early offers to RFAs have the disadvantage of tying up cap space for 3 days at a time you might be in the running for UFAs. And at this point, having the space for a max offer would be a great rarity. Not sure if any team could offer that now. Turns out the Lakers signed Boozer for 3 mil. Them making that deal signifies that they were below the salary cap at the time of the signing (to be eligible to bid for an amnestied player), but whether they still are (Ed Davis is also on board, for a cheap contract) and by how much I don't know.

What I'm trying to wrap my head around, Deus, is why no one's tried an exorbitantly high one year offer, even a max deal. The answer's less straightforward there, I think, than concerning a longterm max deal.

Just a thought experiment, because I'm pretty sure neither the Lakers nor any other team will upset the status quo by experimenting with such a radical strategy. In a poker game, someone would try the kind of strategy I've outlined. It's just as well that NBA dealings aren't treated just like poker hands, except that I do have a lingering worry about collusion regarding RFAs.

Thanks for engaging with my speculation concerning strategy. If I have any sense, this will be my last entry on the subject, or very nearly so, because it's far removed from anything likely to happen concerning Monroe and because time's needed elsewhere.

Is it such a far-fetched idea or is there some other reason it's never been tried (as far as I know)?  Again, it's less about LA and more about the potential strategy.

It's a wasted effort that only encourages the opposite of what you would want!

If your RFA gets a max one year offer, you match it in a heart beat, because you just locked him up as a pseudo expiring contract that either you can use or as a very valuable piece in a trade!

One thing I'm not sure of, but I believe would be the case is that he would again be a restricted FA(that's why I said pseudo) at the end of that year... somebody correct me!

Sparma, Oracle, why do you think NO team has called SVG's hand and offered Monroe a max contract and see if he matched it? Personally, if I couldn't get a sign & trade or Monroe to sign the Q.O. I wouldn't touch a one year max....that seems so counter productive. If he'd be unhappy for a year playing on a Q.O. (because he's still in Detroit) I'm willing to bet he'd be unhappy in Detroit dragging his ass, for real, under a max deal for a year. His plan seems to be is to get away from Detroit.

[deusXango]

Is it such a far-fetched idea or is there some other reason it's never been tried (as far as I know)?  Again, it's less about LA and more about the potential strategy.

It's a wasted effort that only encourages the opposite of what you would want!

If your RFA gets a max one year offer, you match it in a heart beat, because you just locked him up as a pseudo expiring contract that either you can use or as a very valuable piece in a trade!

One thing I'm not sure of, but I believe would be the case is that he would again be a restricted FA(that's why I said pseudo) at the end of that year... somebody correct me!

Sparma, Oracle, why do you think NO team has called SVG's hand and offered Monroe a max contract and see if he matched it? Personally, if I couldn't get a sign & trade or Monroe to sign the Q.O. I wouldn't touch a one year max....that seems so counter productive. If he'd be unhappy for a year playing on a Q.O. (because he's still in Detroit) I'm willing to bet he'd be unhappy in Detroit dragging his ass, for real, under a max deal for a year. His plan seems to be is to get away from Detroit.

[deusXango]

"The Kings have several power forwards, but they do not believe they have a starter they can build around and who will help them reach the playoffs."
They have several but, we have one proven PF who should start for us; isn't our goal to reach the playoffs?

"Smith, 28, would be an improvement, the kind of athletic presence with shot-blocking ability Sacramento covets to play next to center DeMarcus Cousins."
We've got a man-child of a center in Andre Drummond (who's not mentally challenged) who deserves an athletic, shot-blocking presence, don't we?

"If Smith played power forward for Sacramento, the Kings would expect his rebounds and blocks to be closer to his career averages of 7.9 and 2.1, respectively".
Haven't we Smith supporters been saying the same thing if J-Smoove played PF for us....at the peak of his powers (make no mistake, age 28 is an athletes peak!!!

"Smith, whose athleticism has been a plus on defense throughout his career, ranked 15th in the NBA with 1.43 blocks per game and would help Cousins protect the rim. Cousins was 20th in the league at 1.28 blocks per game."
If Drummond doesn't need this on his team, WTF does he need? A club footed, sh!t in his drawers, 0.8 blocks per game center, masquerading as a PF?


It seems that everybody has an appreciation for our talented PF but us; he will work out everywhere but in Detroit. The only franchise that can't afford him is the Pistons fans (who aren't a franchise at all, just sh!t talkers), but are willing to pay handsomely for Smith extra-lite in Monroe. There's a subtle "f#ck the Pistons, what can we do to help the other guy" mentality at work. Of all the possible trade partners, we're locked into the one team that has the least to offer us but, there's not a peep about any sign & trade scenarios regarding Monroe; Smith is under contract and Monroe obviously doesn't want to sign one with us.

The Sacramento Bee's write-up clearly shows an appreciation for Josh...."one man's junk is another man's treasure." What's wrong with us??!!

[Oracle]

Is it such a far-fetched idea or is there some other reason it's never been tried (as far as I know)?  Again, it's less about LA and more about the potential strategy.

It's a wasted effort that only encourages the opposite of what you would want!

If your RFA gets a max one year offer, you match it in a heart beat, because you just locked him up as a pseudo expiring contract that either you can use or as a very valuable piece in a trade!

One thing I'm not sure of, but I believe would be the case is that he would again be a restricted FA(that's why I said pseudo) at the end of that year... somebody correct me!

[WTF]

I would sign and trade with the Celtics for Greene and Sullinger 1st round pick
I would sign and trade with the Cavs for Thompson and a 1st round pick
I would sign and trade with OKC for Lamb Perkins and 1st round pick
I would sign and trade with Portland Batum and Lopez
I would sign and trade with whomever wants his ass period

[WTF]

Okay I think I calmed down some but it's really irks the sh!t out me with this Josh trashing.

Sebastian, SVG definitely struck a nerve because I'm about fed up with this game he's chosen to play with Moose and his agent. This guy isn't worth all this attention and SVG needs to decide what the f@ck he's going to do. This crap isn't fair to Josh enigma or not he's earned his 13.5M rather people think he didn't or not I complete BS.

Whatever this team went through Josh had nothing to do with it period, this tem was already dysfunctional long before he got here from the players to the front office. Reading the article on Stuckey doesn't offer up the dirty details but one thing is clear from it is that Josh had nothing to do with how f@cked up it was. Josh wasn't a locker room cancer he wasn't in Atlanta even though it was known he wanted out, but he gets here try to motivate these asses and particularly Moose, Jennings and Andre. Why is Andre never had an issue with being pushed and challenged but these other two ass did.

If you read between the lines of Singler, Andre, Stuckey, and Chauncey comments it's not hard to conclude were the issue came from. It's the same sh!t now and it's not going to change until that diva is gone. This team was separated Singler stated the sh!t worked in practice so why not on the court in games but there was this divide not create by Josh but by Moose and he did everything possible on the court with his lazy ass effort to make sure it didn't work. Then you had Bynum beefing with Cheeks the entire season and Jennings doing his own thing. Stuckey kept his head down all season and quietly stayed out of the way but you could see his frustration as the season went on. Chauncey just didn't go to Joe and Gores to stand up for Josh against Cheeks but against Monroe as well it was also about the division in the locker room as a whole that got Cheeks fired.

Really 7 seasons 6 coaches, This kid had one normal season with Flip as his coach and it's been all down hill.

I've said this before and I'll say it again about Moose bitch ass things were all good when they were calling him franchise, then he watched Joe turn the team over to Knight, then he watch Joe drafted Drummond and then Joe sign Josh. You all are out of your minds if you don't see the petty jealousness this asshole displays on the court and off of it. Now Drummond is designate franchise player max deals are meant for him not Drummond and I'm sure Monroe knows the skinny about the rule for paying max contracts. Maybe Drummond need to rethink wanting his ass here because in 2 year you're up next and Moose isn't thinking about your ass right now getting a max deal.

What's really pissing me off is that SVG sees all of this, he's not stupid or blind. But he is picking up right were Joe left off in entertaining this dumb **** at least Joe had the common sense to ignore it out of sight and not publicly participate in it by denying and covering Moose bitch ass only to have those comments come back and resurface. Bet he's feeling like a little ass about right now after covering Moose on the Josh comments which is why his ass ran straight to Josh today. "I'm not planning to trade you Josh, but I can't promise you that it can't happen if something comes up" that whole attack today by the media was all staged to do the very thing he accuse everyone else of doing and that's scapegoating Josh. Street Justice would have SVG getting his ass whipped about right now and I feel like kicking it.

[Sparma]

If I were the Lakers' GM, I wouldn't see Monroe as a max player either.  My idee fixe for the day though is offering him a max contract for a year.  As Lakers (rather than say Bucks) GM, I'd be confident there'd be a pretty good chance on him signing a reasonable deal going forward as URA starting next summer.   As a mischievous GM not worried about league disapproval I'd just put that offer out there, not intending to work out a sign-and-trade which would necessitate giving up key assets.  (If I really were interested in a sign-and-trade, I'd take different approach, working more delicately, not putting out a formal offer until I was confident all parties were on board.)  Pretty good chance that Detroit would match, but they might well not, knowing that they'd need to put up 15.75 mil to hold on to a guy for a season who's already shown he'd like to go to LA (or elsewhere) next summer when he's unrestricted, when there's no barrier.  As Detroit, you might be tempted to cut your losses and move on, without a season with a massive distraction just as the new regime begins.  It's a strategy that could fail, but I'm surprised it's never been tried to my knowledge.  It'd be like trying to chase someone off of a good, but not great, poker hand with a high raise, except that in this case I'd get to take my money back off the table if my aggressive move failed. What's not to love? It would seem LA would stand to gain much and to lose little, other than disapproval by other teams.  Is it such a far-fetched idea or is there some other reason it's never been tried (as far as I know)?  Again, it's less about LA and more about the potential strategy.

 

I have a hard enough time following where the Pistons's cap space stand; I don't have a clear sense of where most other teams stand, although it sounds like not many have space.  The point I was raising about the Lakers was mainly procedural: it seems that a team could provide a helpful bridge to UFA to certain RFAs by making a big one year offer.  I would have guessed that the Lakers were in a position to do so, but had heard they'd made some signings.  Still confused as to why signing Boozer for the minimum or so would have much effect on their interest in a young near All Star caliber center, but so be it.  Is the idea that they'd be too similar?

You've fully convinced me that sign-and-trades are what's likely to be available.  Those might be more likely than in the ordinary case because of the genuine threat of Falk/ Monroe signing the qo.  It still looks like it will take a while to resolve.  I should back away from obsessing over it and get on with other facets of life.

Maybe I should phrase it a bit differently.

Yes, the Lakers have enough cap space to make an offer to Monroe, maybe even a max offer, but there's a problem.

They like Monroe, but NOT a max Monroe because it ties up too much cap space and limits what they'll do next season when it's 100% sure that they will be looking for a real star player!

They don't consider Monroe to be that level of player, so going after him is a fools errand because the Pistons WILL match any non-max offer, and all they would offer is non-max!

Monroe's problem is that NOBODY views him as a max player, and any offer below the max would automatically be matched by SVG!

Monroe bought all of those wolf tickets Falk was selling about him being a max player, and nobody believed it(especially after that dud 7'2 dunce in Indy   )

So it comes down to if he wants to stay or if we even want him to stay, all other options other than a S&T are off the table!

[deusXango]

For Monroe to insist on being a max contract player for Detroit is bull sh!t and saying he doesn't want Smith on the team is a smoke screen; he's not better than Drummond (or the best player on the team), therefore he shouldn't be our max player.....if he is it's at the expense of Drummond. If Smith is traded away for scrap, because he's unpopular with a bias crowd and SVG honors that stupid sh!t, it'll set a bad precedent.

Drummond outperformed Monroe in his first year as a starter and fans act as if they didn't see that; he broke or set franchise big man records while Monroe struggled to achieve mediocrity. Drummond is called raw and flawed but, he is actually a double-double player, not a potential double-double player, like Monroe has been touted to be for years. The youthful and naïve Drummond says he wants Monroe to come back out of friendship but, Monroe is not his friend; he's jealous of Drummonds talents and standing with the team. This ain't about Monroe and Smith, it's about Monroe and Drummond but, Monroe is too b!tch style to call out the franchise player like he's done his superior at PF; Monroe is the 2nd best center on the team and the 2nd best PF! Bench players don't get max money and don't you think scouts and GM's around the league recognize this?

Has anyone wondered why Monroe fluctuates from center to PF, depending on what you read, but he's never spoken of as a clear-cut #1 on this team? Has it not occurred to anyone that no one is knocking down Monroe's door for his services and like Wise stated, "SVG is bidding against himself like Joe did;" this has nothing to do with Monroe being a RFA but, his ridiculous contract demands and his high pressure agent. I know Falk's job is to get his client the most money he can but, the majority of max level players money comes from outside of basketball simply because of their popularity. Endorsements, gym shoe deals, T.V. appearances, and on and on....Monroe ain't popular any further than local nose pickers and Smith haters. No GM wants to sign this years version of Roy Hibbert; Falk got him a max deal (Phoenix dodged a bullet) that Indy matched and now they can't get him out of town! Like Monroe, he's out played most nights (his face is saved by the surrounding talent or his flaws are hidden, if you will) but because his agent got him a max deal, Monroe should get one also; Hibbert was more of an advertisement for Falk than he turned out to be a sound investment for a pro team.

Monroe or Drummond or Smith, pick two; I'll take Drummond and Smith all day long!

[Oracle]

I have a hard enough time following where the Pistons's cap space stand; I don't have a clear sense of where most other teams stand, although it sounds like not many have space.  The point I was raising about the Lakers was mainly procedural: it seems that a team could provide a helpful bridge to UFA to certain RFAs by making a big one year offer.  I would have guessed that the Lakers were in a position to do so, but had heard they'd made some signings.  Still confused as to why signing Boozer for the minimum or so would have much effect on their interest in a young near All Star caliber center, but so be it.  Is the idea that they'd be too similar?

You've fully convinced me that sign-and-trades are what's likely to be available.  Those might be more likely than in the ordinary case because of the genuine threat of Falk/ Monroe signing the qo.  It still looks like it will take a while to resolve.  I should back away from obsessing over it and get on with other facets of life.

Maybe I should phrase it a bit differently.

Yes, the Lakers have enough cap space to make an offer to Monroe, maybe even a max offer, but there's a problem.

They like Monroe, but NOT a max Monroe because it ties up too much cap space and limits what they'll do next season when it's 100% sure that they will be looking for a real star player!

They don't consider Monroe to be that level of player, so going after him is a fools errand because the Pistons WILL match any non-max offer, and all they would offer is non-max!

Monroe's problem is that NOBODY views him as a max player, and any offer below the max would automatically be matched by SVG!

Monroe bought all of those wolf tickets Falk was selling about him being a max player, and nobody believed it(especially after that dud 7'2 dunce in Indy   )

So it comes down to if he wants to stay or if we even want him to stay, all other options other than a S&T are off the table!

[Sparma]

I have a hard enough time following where the Pistons's cap space stand; I don't have a clear sense of where most other teams stand, although it sounds like not many have space. The point I was raising about the Lakers was mainly procedural: it seems that a team could provide a helpful bridge to UFA to certain RFAs by making a big one year offer. I would have guessed that the Lakers were in a position to do so, but had heard they'd made some signings. Still confused as to why signing Boozer for the minimum or so would have much effect on their interest in a young near All Star caliber center, but so be it. Is the idea that they'd be too similar?

You've fully convinced me that sign-and-trades are what's likely to be available. Those might be more likely than in the ordinary case because of the genuine threat of Falk/ Monroe signing the qo. It still looks like it will take a while to resolve. I should back away from obsessing over it and get on with other facets of life.

[Oracle]

Detroit Pistons big man Greg Monroe is in a difficult spot. As a restricted free agent, he’s no doubt looking for a big offer sheet to sign. The market for his services, though, might not be as robust as he had hoped. Without the ability to block shots or shoot from range, Monroe’s skill set isn’t exactly in style right now

Let’s take a look at some of the potential landing spots for Greg Monroe. Note that all of these destinations would have to negotiate a sign-and-trade, as that seems like the most logical way to acquire Monroe at this stage in the offseason thanks to teams already having spent the majority of their cap space.

[Oracle]

A dumb ass rookie at that!

Why in the world did he immediately climb up Monroe's ass and let him think that SVG just had to have him, that he was priority #1????

If you've EVER dealt with a woman, you know that the kiss of death is letting her know how much you want that stuff, and Monroe is certainly a HO   

He's made a ton of mistakes as GM, and next we'll see if his "Competition" in training camp is as phony as the crap that happened under Joe.

I'm here to tell you he's blowing smoke, because he's the dude that signed his known favorites, and watch how those dudes get the choice roles!

Yo, Oracle, I do not have the time to find the quote, right now, but do you remember SVG stating how much he likes Caron Butler.

He likes him $5 million worth for one season. What in the hell is a broke down Caron Butler is going to do for OUR Pistons in probably his final year in the League and why in the hell is he being paid $5 million dollars?

Damn, SVG!!!

Seb, Butler could get the starting job if he really wanted it, but Butler is smart enough to know that at his age and ability, he doesn't want to be put on front street like that!

I'm rough on SVG right now, but I do expect him to get better next year, but for now, as a GM, he's a wobbly rookie, and it shows!!!

[Oracle]

I meant the Lakers primarily as an illustration of the havoc a team could wreak by offering a massive one year contract to a RFA; I don't know exactly where their cap space stands although I know that they had few players signed a while ago.  They would have picked up Boozer at the minimum or close to it, right?  No one but the Bulls will be paying him the bulk of his 17 mil or so.

It's not the price, it's the type of pickups that they're interested in!

They won't be spending big at all, that's the point I was making, but if you weren't seriously suggesting the Lakers offering Moose the max, then it's just informational.

[Sparma]

I meant the Lakers primarily as an illustration of the havoc a team could wreak by offering a massive one year contract to a RFA; I don't know exactly where their cap space stands although I know that they had few players signed a while ago. They would have picked up Boozer at the minimum or close to it, right? No one but the Bulls will be paying him the bulk of his 17 mil or so.

[Oracle]

I've already said that the Lakers are DONE! They won't be offering Monroe a damn thing!

As a matter of fact, the Lakers just picked up Boozer!

Forget the Lakers, the last team that would possibly be in position to offer Moose anything!

SVG is virtually, like joe, bidding against himself!!!

[Sparma]

Wikipedia to the rescue, I think. Under their description of maximum contract, there's a description of a Designated Player. I gather the point is that there are two maxima, one of cash, the other of length. Teams may only offer one only one player on a rookie contract a 5 year, max, contract within a span of five years. So the Pistons could match if LA offered a one year max. My bad. What they can do is offer Monroe a max contract in both amount of money and length and then do the same with Drummond a couple of years later.

I'm trying to remember how this may have contributed to James Harden leaving OKC and also how Durant and Westbrook co-exist as max/max players (maybe that's not quite what they've done).

So my bad, throwing information of mixed quality into the forum.

I still think LA could undermine the process by throwing a huge one year offer at Monroe, but not because Detroit couldn't match. I guess LA doing that would be bad for Detroit because they'd likely match, having a max player on their hands for one year, who'd likely bolt as UFA next summer. If he signed the qo, at least we'd have him on the cheap for a season. Detroit would need to think about matching that offer, but they could.

Wikipedia: "Each team in the NBA can nominate a rookie player to receive a "Designated Player" contract extension. A Designated Player is eligible for a 5-year contract extension, instead of being held to the standard 4-year restriction.[6] A team can only allocate a single Designated Player contract at any one time (if a team has already extended a rookie contract by using the Designated Player extension they cannot create a second Designated Player contract until the current contract expires, or until the player moves to a different team); however the CBA rules do allow teams to sign a second Designated Player from another team in addition to the one they already have. All teams are limited to having a maximum of two Designated Players contracted on their roster at any time (one which they have created from one of their own rookie contracts, and one which they have acquired from another team).[12]"

[Sebastian]

A dumb ass rookie at that!

Why in the world did he immediately climb up Monroe's ass and let him think that SVG just had to have him, that he was priority #1????

If you've EVER dealt with a woman, you know that the kiss of death is letting her know how much you want that stuff, and Monroe is certainly a HO   

He's made a ton of mistakes as GM, and next we'll see if his "Competition" in training camp is as phony as the crap that happened under Joe.

I'm here to tell you he's blowing smoke, because he's the dude that signed his known favorites, and watch how those dudes get the choice roles!

Yo, Oracle, I do not have the time to find the quote, right now, but do you remember SVG stating how much he likes Caron Butler.

He likes him $5 million worth for one season. What in the hell is a broke down Caron Butler is going to do for OUR Pistons in probably his final year in the League and why in the hell is he being paid $5 million dollars?

Damn, SVG!!!

[Oracle]

A dumb ass rookie at that!

Why in the world did he immediately climb up Monroe's ass and let him think that SVG just had to have him, that he was priority #1????

If you've EVER dealt with a woman, you know that the kiss of death is letting her know how much you want that stuff, and Monroe is certainly a HO   

He's made a ton of mistakes as GM, and next we'll see if his "Competition" in training camp is as phony as the crap that happened under Joe.

I'm here to tell you he's blowing smoke, because he's the dude that signed his known favorites, and watch how those dudes get the choice roles!

[Sebastian]

And now I'm beginning to get pissed with SVG after weeks of defending him he is very weak and indecisive it seems in dealing with this situation. If Thomas was your intended target then you should have dealt Smith why make back then instead you were being a puss because you were letting Moose and his agent dictate what you're doing.  

Now your ass is faced with the possibility of giving up you best defender and keeping Monroe and hoping he improves, but you didn't count on Moose wanting it all Max Money and a shorter deal.  

You did this because you blinked on the whatever deal Portland had in place or Moose nixed that deal as well, not willing to bend on accepting a long term offer with Portland either.  So now you're sitting here like a doofus because Moose has painting you in a corner and forcing you to trade Josh though you know it's not the smart thing to do because no matter how you cut at the end of the day Josh is the better PF.

How about from here on you just shut the f@ck up period.  Let Moose and his agent come to you with a deal and then agree to it because you and Bower have f@cked this up royally when it was already a turd of a mess to begin with.  You got 17 players under contract and Gray and Martin haven't even signed their offers yet.  

If I'm Josh I want to be traded.  I know Joe would have f@cked this up too but not because he was indecisive he would have been quick to make a dumb decision but a decision nonetheless and likely without 17 players under contract.  I can't say you created this mess but you have definitely made a bigger mess of it in a short amount of time.  

Yo, Wise, that Stan Van Gundy kool-aid is not tasting too well, now, huh?

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