Vince Goodwill STFU

[WTF]

You and all the other local clowns bashed Stuckey to no end at every f@cking moment possible and now you want to talk about the circumstances. It was the same attack you and other had on Rip to tarnish his time here and it the same thing you attempted with your tweets of Josh yesterday.  No Goodwill you were right there with all the rest defending 5 of those 6 coaches while covering Joe's ass in the process.  

Now you want to bring up all the things that were wrong and say perhaps now he did get a raw deal.  Duh! ass hole you would have to be blind to see that he didn't.   Stuckey needed both Flip and CB and he all but told Joe but was completely ignored as you all cheered the firing of Flip and co-signed trading CB but it was somehow all on him to take over a team of disgruntle veterans.  He tried stepping down to coming off the bench just to keep peace and let both Rip and AI start let alone deal with the dumbest coaching hire ever Curry that you all endorse as more Joe genius.  

I'll miss Stuckey but I'm glad he' gone and I kind of hope Josh gets away as well before you all turn him in to the next Rip.  Ellis disputed your claims and BS yesterday and I'm glad because it was wrong.  Things are suppose to be different SVG building a new culture and environment but you MF's are operating as if business as usual.

Yeah Stuckey was a victim but all you clowns played your part in things as well.  Really Goodwill STFU!

[cool breeze]

A lot of first round draft picks appear to have major flaws when it comes to playing 5 on 5. Maybe GMs forget that the only way to judge a players abilities has to be real games not the Chicago Combine. As I watch Nick Johnson playing 3 different positions just like he did in college and defending the opponent's best offensive player 1 through 3, Hitting the big shots or making the great assist at the end of games is Nick's biggest asset. He is a clutch player and there is no way in hell that he shouldn't have been drafted high in the first round. If it wasn't for the horrible offensive foul call with Nick driving from the foul line to shoot that running bank shot that had been money for him all season, then he would have played in the final 4 and all the experts would have noticed him. This is a crazy world where daily we see a lot of injustice at all levels of life. I hate that part of life. I want more justice for the good people. But I am only mentioning Nick Johnson here because I have watched a lot of players who are under the radar and were not drafted or were 2nd round picks. It is too late for SVG to take back his 2nd round pick now and a lot of GMs are saying that because they passed on Nick Johnson. This Las Vegas summer league venue is great relating to watching some really talented guards fighting for their lives. 

SVG needs to find a way to sign either Siva or one of the impressive young guards who who excelled in the summer league games. I wouldn't be surprised if Steve Kerr doesn't find a spot for Ohio State's highly intelligent point guard Arron Craft. Basketball is still about 80% mental and last season our Piston players showed the flaws in NBA management people who disregard that truth. Guys like Livine might be able to jump high or dunk the ball with style but it doesn't mean that they can play effectively 5 on 5. Move Bynum and open a spot for a young smart point guard just for insurance if Dinwiddie does not recover from the ACL injury.

Thanks Don, for your great insight into what it takes to build a winner; Nick Johnson is slated to sit on the pines on a winner and we can really use him for at least the next 10 years as an integral part of our success but, I was scolded for continuing to bring him up.....we already have "no" so what's keeping us from trying to acquire this young man? Hell, I'll say it again; KCP, F@ckin' Jodie Meeks, Mr. Dinwiddie, D.J. Augustin, and Nick Johnson should be our guard corps....if they are, being weak at SF won't matter a hill of beans!

dX maybe there is a gentlemen's agreement between GM in the NBA. What is weird is Kevin McHale had his scouts attend most of Arizona's games last season. Kevin McHale loves Nick Johnson and has known him for a long time, being that he was a close friend of Nick's uncle Dennis Johnson. Nick comes from a great family. His Father is Jumpin Joe Johnson who played at Arizona State and over seas and is a great man. His Mom is also a outstanding person. But Nick grew up modeling himself after his uncle Dennis Johnson. It has to be more than a coincidence that Houston could sit back and wait to select Nick that late in the 2nd round. I watch a lot of college basketball and could not believe that all the experts had Nick Johnson as only good enough to be a 2nd round pick. He ate up Zach Lavine and all the other PAC12 high profile players. He kicked Duke's ass shutting down their stud player, and beat Michigan while switching on to whoever the hot shooter was at certain times during that game. By the way, Nick really worked his teammates to get them ready to play that Michigan game at Michigan because the team had traveled to New York for the NIT before they had to fly to Michigan to play that game. This guy is so special. I can't wait to see him play in the NBA after he gets about 3 years of experience. Stan Van Gundy really screwed up not picking Nick Johnson and he knows it. We have a question mark with Spencer D. I am really high on him based on what he did the season before he sustained the ACL tear but that is a horrible injury especially for bigger players. If Dinwiddie makes a complete recovery, all Piston fans are going to be extremely pleased but the sure thing in this draft was taking Nick Johnson. Notice in the summer league games how Nick's teammates love playing with him. He always gives the ball up to the open man. He always helps his teammates on defense. I am so happy he is doing so well in these games.

[deusXango]

A lot of first round draft picks appear to have major flaws when it comes to playing 5 on 5. Maybe GMs forget that the only way to judge a players abilities has to be real games not the Chicago Combine. As I watch Nick Johnson playing 3 different positions just like he did in college and defending the opponent's best offensive player 1 through 3, Hitting the big shots or making the great assist at the end of games is Nick's biggest asset. He is a clutch player and there is no way in hell that he shouldn't have been drafted high in the first round. If it wasn't for the horrible offensive foul call with Nick driving from the foul line to shoot that running bank shot that had been money for him all season, then he would have played in the final 4 and all the experts would have noticed him. This is a crazy world where daily we see a lot of injustice at all levels of life. I hate that part of life. I want more justice for the good people. But I am only mentioning Nick Johnson here because I have watched a lot of players who are under the radar and were not drafted or were 2nd round picks. It is too late for SVG to take back his 2nd round pick now and a lot of GMs are saying that because they passed on Nick Johnson. This Las Vegas summer league venue is great relating to watching some really talented guards fighting for their lives. 

SVG needs to find a way to sign either Siva or one of the impressive young guards who who excelled in the summer league games. I wouldn't be surprised if Steve Kerr doesn't find a spot for Ohio State's highly intelligent point guard Arron Craft. Basketball is still about 80% mental and last season our Piston players showed the flaws in NBA management people who disregard that truth. Guys like Livine might be able to jump high or dunk the ball with style but it doesn't mean that they can play effectively 5 on 5. Move Bynum and open a spot for a young smart point guard just for insurance if Dinwiddie does not recover from the ACL injury.

Thanks Don, for your great insight into what it takes to build a winner; Nick Johnson is slated to sit on the pines on a winner and we can really use him for at least the next 10 years as an integral part of our success but, I was scolded for continuing to bring him up.....we already have "no" so what's keeping us from trying to acquire this young man? Hell, I'll say it again; KCP, F@ckin' Jodie Meeks, Mr. Dinwiddie, D.J. Augustin, and Nick Johnson should be our guard corps....if they are, being weak at SF won't matter a hill of beans!

[cool breeze]

That said, there is an inherent value in having players who can produce their own offense without having plays run for them.  Drummond and Kyle Singler both have that characteristic.

From the comments section...

Can't agree with you David that Butler's a much better shooter than Singler. Career stats - field goal %:  Singler 43.7%; Butler 43.5%.   Career stats - 3-pt field goal %: Singler 36.8%; Butler 34.6%. Yes Butler shot almost 40% on 3-pt shots last year, but he spent part of his year in OKC with all the double teams for their 2 superstars

I have full faith that Kyle Singler will elevate his overall game this coming season. This is another reason to start getting excited. He is going to really do well in SVG's system and I suspect he will be the clutch player in crunch time. Joe Dumars did something right when he drafted Singler. This is another outstanding college player that was ignored by the NBA experts.

[cool breeze]

Brandon Jennings is reported to have added 20 to 25 pounds since the end of the regular season. I saw a picture with him and his new girlfriend and he does look bigger in the upper body. It appears that another NBA player rejected a white pill that Jennings offered at a nightclub. He likes to tweet and maybe needs attention. But this much is clear to me. Brandon Jennings hates to lose while playing basketball. His work ethic might be suspect but after his disappointing season last year, I will be surprised if he doesn't come into training camp ready to go with a new edge to his game. There is no question relating to his quickness and offensive talent, maybe with his added weight, we might be pleasantly surprised with Brandon Jennings next year. If Jennings can step up and Augustine plays well, this team might cause some damage in the Eastern Conference. Just move Bynum to another home please. 

What if both Monroe and Smith are not part of the Piston team next season? Has anyone explored this idea? I'll bet SVG has worked out some ideas as to what the possibilities might be relating to players he could bring in to fill the void their removal would bring. I wouldn't be upset if that happened. But if I had to choose one or the other, I would keep Smith. I am tired of watching Monroe's slow feet on defense. I just don't think that the Drummond-Monroe combination will work well because both are limited defensively and neither can shoot the ball well outside of 6 feet. Maybe SVG can somehow make the defense work with both Drummond and Monroe but if so it will take a lot of more time to make it work. Drummond's two goals this coming season should be to greatly improve his free throw percentage and become a monster on the defensive end while staying out of foul trouble. I wish the new coaches well because Drummond's old bad habits might prevent him from having a breakout season next year. As I see it right now, it will be exciting to see how it all pans out relating to both Drummond and Jennings. If they play outstanding basketball, the Pistons could make the playoffs.

[Oracle]

That said, there is an inherent value in having players who can produce their own offense without having plays run for them.  Drummond and Kyle Singler both have that characteristic.

From the comments section...

Can't agree with you David that Butler's a much better shooter than Singler. Career stats - field goal %:  Singler 43.7%; Butler 43.5%.   Career stats - 3-pt field goal %: Singler 36.8%; Butler 34.6%. Yes Butler shot almost 40% on 3-pt shots last year, but he spent part of his year in OKC with all the double teams for their 2 superstars

[cool breeze]

Washed up?  Let's be honest with ourselves.  C-Butts was never that great to begin with.  He's always reminded me of that other UConn Huskie SF, Rudy Gay...questionable BB IQ, defensive liability, injury prone, ball hog.

Just my opinion...   Hope I'm wrong...

I thought it was really funny when folks announced that Butler for sure would be the starting small forward. SVG must know more than us but his price tag seems really high based on his age and history. Let us just hope he doesn't suffer a season ending injury in training camp.

Don, he carries a mature, winning mentality, which is priceless for a young, back-to-back 29 win team; he's healthy enough to stay on the practice floor, display sound work ethics, and have an encouraging voice in the locker room, plus he's not coming in all broken down talking about starting! I fully expect your boy Singler to get the starting call at SF and Butler not play more than 5-10 minutes a night. When Gores talked about spending money, it didn't have to be 10's of millions on one player but, handing out a contract like what Meeks and Butler received is prudent spending; it may look like overspending to some but, we'll get our money's worth (at least Gores will get his money's worth).

Thanks for the info dX. It makes good sense to add players like Butler but I just wish he was a big younger. Still, like you said, Butler has never been a hotdog. He is a hard worker and will set a good example.

[deusXango]

Washed up?  Let's be honest with ourselves.  C-Butts was never that great to begin with.  He's always reminded me of that other UConn Huskie SF, Rudy Gay...questionable BB IQ, defensive liability, injury prone, ball hog.

Just my opinion...   Hope I'm wrong...

I thought it was really funny when folks announced that Butler for sure would be the starting small forward. SVG must know more than us but his price tag seems really high based on his age and history. Let us just hope he doesn't suffer a season ending injury in training camp.

Don, he carries a mature, winning mentality, which is priceless for a young, back-to-back 29 win team; he's healthy enough to stay on the practice floor, display sound work ethics, and have an encouraging voice in the locker room, plus he's not coming in all broken down talking about starting! I fully expect your boy Singler to get the starting call at SF and Butler not play more than 5-10 minutes a night. When Gores talked about spending money, it didn't have to be 10's of millions on one player but, handing out a contract like what Meeks and Butler received is prudent spending; it may look like overspending to some but, we'll get our money's worth (at least Gores will get his money's worth).

[Oracle]

No problem, I don't know why I'm trying to change you, because if you changed, you wouldn't be who you are, and even when we don't agree, it's cool!

BTW, I was totally against the Darko pick on day one... hated it! I wanted Carmelo, and couldn't believe Joe picked a player that had absolutely no film to be found anywhere, and no track record of anything except smoking cigs!

I even had to put up with my silly teenage female relatives going crazy over that scrub... disgusting!

Having said that, even Darko got a raw deal here, as so many rookies do!

[Oracle]

Washed up?  Let's be honest with ourselves.  C-Butts was never that great to begin with.  He's always reminded me of that other UConn Huskie SF, Rudy Gay...questionable BB IQ, defensive liability, injury prone, ball hog.

Just my opinion...   Hope I'm wrong...

I thought it was really funny when folks announced that Butler for sure would be the starting small forward. SVG must know more than us but his price tag seems really high based on his age and history. Let us just hope he doesn't suffer a season ending injury in training camp.

SVG didn't sign him to be the starter, and I can't see him beating out Singler or even wanting to start... those days are over for Butler!

[cool breeze]

A lot of first round draft picks appear to have major flaws when it comes to playing 5 on 5. Maybe GMs forget that the only way to judge a players abilities has to be real games not the Chicago Combine. As I watch Nick Johnson playing 3 different positions just like he did in college and defending the opponent's best offensive player 1 through 3, Hitting the big shots or making the great assist at the end of games is Nick's biggest asset. He is a clutch player and there is no way in hell that he shouldn't have been drafted high in the first round. If it wasn't for the horrible offensive foul call with Nick driving from the foul line to shoot that running bank shot that had been money for him all season, then he would have played in the final 4 and all the experts would have noticed him. This is a crazy world where daily we see a lot of injustice at all levels of life. I hate that part of life. I want more justice for the good people. But I am only mentioning Nick Johnson here because I have watched a lot of players who are under the radar and were not drafted or were 2nd round picks. It is too late for SVG to take back his 2nd round pick now and a lot of GMs are saying that because they passed on Nick Johnson. This Las Vegas summer league venue is great relating to watching some really talented guards fighting for their lives. 

SVG needs to find a way to sign either Siva or one of the impressive young guards who who excelled in the summer league games. I wouldn't be surprised if Steve Kerr doesn't find a spot for Ohio State's highly intelligent point guard Arron Craft. Basketball is still about 80% mental and last season our Piston players showed the flaws in NBA management people who disregard that truth. Guys like Livine might be able to jump high or dunk the ball with style but it doesn't mean that they can play effectively 5 on 5. Move Bynum and open a spot for a young smart point guard just for insurance if Dinwiddie does not recover from the ACL injury.

[deusXango]

My biggest regret was not being able to see what Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, and Antonio McDyess could have accomplished as Detroit's original Big 3. As diverse as their skillsets were those guys could flat out dominate....not just play but, dominate! Alas, it was not to be.

Fast forward to today and we have a chance to witness the accomplishments of the present day Detroit Big 3, a diversely skilled set of young big men who can also dominate....their play must be molded but, they can dominate!

Drummond is a phenomenally gifted athlete (on the order of LeBron) who doesn't know sh!t beyond rebounding and instinctual offensive play; he's capable of being a double-double machine in his sleep, which he's proven this last season. It's going to be up to SVG's "hive mind" to mold this young man into the interior dynamo he can become and lead this team to championships! FT's, rim protection, post game, all these things will come in time.

Smith has always been (in my mind) the bridge between Drummond and Monroe; I felt that was why Dumars brought him in but, when the coaching hire went in the direction it did, I knew we were doomed for failure although I held out hope. He can be that Ben Wallace type "lead by example" player, not vocal but, what he does in preparation, how hard he practices, and being in total attack mode during games. I've read a number of "fools" remarks about how dumb Smith is and I choose to differ; he knows the game and has great instincts for playing it. He passes extremely well, has been a leading shot blocker (the most of any PF) in his career, an explosive interior post player, and is not a selfish player; he can benefit both Drummond and Monroe on and off the court. Once that bull sh!t is cleared out of the air, they're the 3 amigos!

Monroe will never be a mid-range threat because, he's a genuine back to the basket, classic, low post center; the farthest he needs to be learning to shoot from is the free throw line....he's durable, now he needs to work on getting stronger. His foot work is immaculate but, to compensate for his lack of athleticism, he must be stronger, a better FT shooter, and he's good to go. His rebounding positioning and passing abilities are second to none; all he needs to work on is his attitude, body, and refining his natural skillset. He can be a major contributor on a championship team.

A reasonable conclusion must be reached with Monroe's contract (f#ck what fans think it should be), the 3 of them need to have a meeting of the minds and get on the same page as far as what their goals are, and they need to start being together as opposed to being apart (Isiah and Joe; Chauncey and Rip; Wallace X2), togetherness has always spelled success for us.

Go Pistons   

[cool breeze]

Washed up?  Let's be honest with ourselves.  C-Butts was never that great to begin with.  He's always reminded me of that other UConn Huskie SF, Rudy Gay...questionable BB IQ, defensive liability, injury prone, ball hog.

Just my opinion...   Hope I'm wrong...

I thought it was really funny when folks announced that Butler for sure would be the starting small forward. SVG must know more than us but his price tag seems really high based on his age and history. Let us just hope he doesn't suffer a season ending injury in training camp.

[WTF]

We all do this this all the time my assessment of them were made prior to drafting them of rather I thought they would translate into great NBA players or not. We all likely would have had debate about this very thing had we kept out pick. Neither Knight or Moose would have been my selection but that's what we ended up with, but that doesn't mean I throw away my original thoughts of these players. IMO Moose and Knight would be productive NBA players but never these superstars in the making many of you think/thought/imagine. Its has nothing to do with giving them a chance and more so with me recognizing what I see> We just simply have different views on of these players nothing wrong with that   

Yes we all make assessments, but once we draft them, they become ours, and we want and wish the best for them, YOU don't!

You mistake support for them as what's underlined in you comment, but don't see that it's all in your head, nobody thinks that 8th/9th picks are going to be LeBron's, but they do have talents that need to be developed, not constantly berated as you do.

But you aren't even consistent with that, because if any player had CLEARLY VISIBLE flaws, it's Josh Smith! And I'm not talking about a few or minor flaws, I'm talking gaping HOLES!

But you dwelled on Knight & Monroe's flaws, and paper over Josh's... truly inconsistent!

So it's not that we have different views on these players, as you mistakenly said. It's that we have a consistent yardstick that we use to evaluate players and you don't! No you don't you all have de-tractable measuring tapes so you can change them as you go along   

It reminds me of a Star Trek Episode:

Spock: Physical Reality is consistent with universal laws, when the laws do not operate, there is no reality

I guess I'm a bad fan and I don't remember a lot of folks applying that same theory of ownership with Darko   

Trust me I know Josh's flaws I just don't turn them into gloom and doom scenarios and most of my rebuttal in his defense is that its just the opposite in that you all think its okay to ignore everyone else and focus on Josh as the team problem.

My example would be this: You was so sure and certain about Moose ability but have found yourself questioning a lot of thing about him from the very beginning. I could have sat wished hoped and pray like everyone else but I didn't. At no time have I disputed one real complaint about Josh's game or try building him into anything more than what he is because I don't pass out brownies and cookies for potential like you all did with Moose and Knight.

Same thing when I was screaming KCP is not a shooter, and how he need to be the next Reggie Miller, Michael Redd, Rip and so on. But I was being a hater not giving the kid a chance. well you came to the conclusion that yes he's a scorer and not a shooter but some time Oracle we don't have to be rocket scientist some things are just are. You also said that Monroe will never require the skills to play PF well you tell me Spock why we need 2 centers starting   

[WTF]

I don't think Monroe likes Josh...



SVG could really blow it: Don't lose both Monroe & Smith

Is this really the bitch type MF you all want to keep? Talk about a flaw in both character and manhood. But like said in a earlier posting you all really need to pay very close attention to what occurred before Josh's arrival and how his attitude and effort has changed sign Knight was called the future and now Andre and now he's scapegoating Josh.

If trading Josh make Monroe a better PF then by all means please trade Josh asap

[Oracle]

We all do this this all the time my assessment of them were made prior to drafting them of rather I thought they would translate into great NBA players or not. We all likely would have had debate about this very thing had we kept out pick. Neither Knight or Moose would have been my selection but that's what we ended up with, but that doesn't mean I throw away my original thoughts of these players. IMO Moose and Knight would be productive NBA players but never these superstars in the making many of you think/thought/imagine. Its has nothing to do with giving them a chance and more so with me recognizing what I see> We just simply have different views on of these players nothing wrong with that   

Yes we all make assessments, but once we draft them, they become ours, and we want and wish the best for them, YOU don't!

You mistake support for them as what's underlined in you comment, but don't see that it's all in your head, nobody thinks that 8th/9th picks are going to be LeBron's, but they do have talents that need to be developed, not constantly berated as you do.

But you aren't even consistent with that, because if any player had CLEARLY VISIBLE flaws, it's Josh Smith! And I'm not talking about a few or minor flaws, I'm talking gaping HOLES!

But you dwelled on Knight & Monroe's flaws, and paper over Josh's... truly inconsistent!

So it's not that we have different views on these players, as you mistakenly said. It's that we have a consistent yardstick that we use to evaluate players and you don't!

It reminds me of a Star Trek Episode:

Spock: Physical Reality is consistent with universal laws, when the laws do not operate, there is no reality

[Sparma]

Hope you're right with your 43, Oracle. I'm still trying to recover from my 43 prediction last year, so don't want to be overly optimistic. Haven't locked in on a final number yet. Got to see what that roster looks like come November.

35 sounds pretty tepid, but we've only improved by at least 20% once this century, so that seems like a good initial marker. (We came close in moving to 64 wins with Flip but only surpassed the 20% mark in moving from 32 to 50 wins at the beginning of the century.)

[Oracle]

I don't think Monroe likes Josh...



SVG could really blow it: Don't lose both Monroe & Smith

[WTF]

Nope I turned on Knight the moment he was drafted pretty much the same why I turned on Monroe. I simply wasn't a fan of Knight nor Monroe. It's night and day between what I did in criticizing those players and what's being done to Josh. Me sitting here critical doesn't have the same level of responsible journalism that should be required by the media. I'm debating with the 30 plus people of this forum what Bob Ryan did yesterday was completely wrong. The fabricating and speculative article Vince did along with the tweeting of mis-information was also wrong.

That's even worse!

You NEVER even gave them a chance!

I seriously can't wrap my brain around that level of thinking!

We all do this this all the time my assessment of them were made prior to drafting them of rather I thought they would translate into great NBA players or not. We all likely would have had debate about this very thing had we kept out pick. Neither Knight or Moose would have been my selection but that's what we ended up with, but that doesn't mean I throw away my original thoughts of these players. IMO Moose and Knight would be productive NBA players but never these superstars in the making many of you think/thought/imagine. Its has nothing to do with giving them a chance and more so with me recognizing what I see> We just simply have different views on of these players nothing wrong with that   

[Oracle]

Nope I turned on Knight the moment he was drafted pretty much the same why I turned on Monroe. I simply wasn't a fan of Knight nor Monroe. It's night and day between what I did in criticizing those players and what's being done to Josh. Me sitting here critical doesn't have the same level of responsible journalism that should be required by the media. I'm debating with the 30 plus people of this forum what Bob Ryan did yesterday was completely wrong. The fabricating and speculative article Vince did along with the tweeting of mis-information was also wrong.

That's even worse!

You NEVER even gave them a chance!

I seriously can't wrap my brain around that level of thinking!

[WTF]

I'm looking at somewhere around 43 wins translating to a 7th or 8th seed!

If I was SVG, I would have went after two solid players(one being a PG) and two scrubs with the money, but he decided to reform the bottom of the roster instead of the top, which is a valid way to go as well!

The changes made WILL make a difference in the w/l column, specifically,

Augustin is an upgrade over Jennings and, IMO, will make Jennings a better player. I think it was Murph that said that Jennings problem is not that he can't shoot, but when to shoot. Jennings could easily improve 40% just by changing that. Add to that the more efficient shooting, decision making, and playmaking of Augustin, and his impact could be huge!

Meeks could also be a potent shooter off the bench! Based on his one year breakout, he projects to being a better shooter than KCP, but I guarantee you that he's not better than KCP anywhere else. KCP has the proper size for the position, Meeks doesn't. KCP is by far the better defender! Unless the competition only considers shooting, KCP should be our starter!

That's it folks! Those are the only changes where we can expect to alter our postseason fortunes, but they're significant, the only question is will it be enough! We know that last year it would have been enough, but the east can't be as weak as it was last year, so we obviously need more, and the only place it can come from is improvement in the old core!

Between coaching, Drummond improving on both ends, Josh playing his proper position, Monroe fitting better, that's the frontline that should lead the way!

I also expect significant improvement from KCP, and hope for a breakout season at best and good improvement for our best 3 point shooter from last year, Singler, and I'm actually thinking Jennings will show good growth as now he's a family man!

@Seb - Don't get upset about those Pistons that are gone, Joe never had any use for them anyway, and only remembered them when his ass was in trouble! Zeke is part owner and still around, so I'm cool!

@Wise - You turned on Knight after one stinking season from a young player, and you're complaining about basically the whole basketball world turning on Josh? Please! Knight didn't earn that from you, but if Josh gets bad press, it's fully earned! I don't agree with all of the negatives because there are other factors, especially last year, but I do see their points about him!

Nope I turned on Knight the moment he was drafted pretty much the same why I turned on Monroe. I simply wasn't a fan of Knight nor Monroe. It's night and day between what I did in criticizing those players and what's being done to Josh. Me sitting here critical doesn't have the same level of responsible journalism that should be required by the media. I'm debating with the 30 plus people of this forum what Bob Ryan did yesterday was completely wrong. The fabricating and speculative article Vince did along with the tweeting of mis-information was also wrong.

I never made up stuff about either Knight or Monroe or any other player, other than voicing my opinions on rather he was as potentially gifted as many of you claimed he is. I still don't see it but that's not saying he's horrible and useless, and as badly as I criticize Monroe I don't need he's talented as a player.

I have asked this question a thousand times and never get a factual answer beyond speculation or guess work about Josh's character. Because outside of Monroe he's the first team mate that was critical of Josh. It's one thing to criticize a players game but they go way too far and way too personal. Bob Ryan the same Boston Globe writer that often said the same things about Zeke, Lamb now an authority on the worth and uselessness of Josh WOW!

Sure Josh shoot threes like crap, he makes a bonehead play, he shot FT's like crap yep so did the whole team what new.

[Oracle]

I'm looking at somewhere around 43 wins translating to a 7th or 8th seed!

If I was SVG, I would have went after two solid players(one being a PG) and two scrubs with the money, but he decided to reform the bottom of the roster instead of the top, which is a valid way to go as well!

The changes made WILL make a difference in the w/l column, specifically,

Augustin is an upgrade over Jennings and, IMO, will make Jennings a better player. I think it was Murph that said that Jennings problem is not that he can't shoot, but when to shoot. Jennings could easily improve 40% just by changing that. Add to that the more efficient shooting, decision making, and playmaking of Augustin, and his impact could be huge!

Meeks could also be a potent shooter off the bench! Based on his one year breakout, he projects to being a better shooter than KCP, but I guarantee you that he's not better than KCP anywhere else. KCP has the proper size for the position, Meeks doesn't. KCP is by far the better defender! Unless the competition only considers shooting, KCP should be our starter!

That's it folks! Those are the only changes where we can expect to alter our postseason fortunes, but they're significant, the only question is will it be enough! We know that last year it would have been enough, but the east can't be as weak as it was last year, so we obviously need more, and the only place it can come from is improvement in the old core!

Between coaching, Drummond improving on both ends, Josh playing his proper position, Monroe fitting better, that's the frontline that should lead the way!

I also expect significant improvement from KCP, and hope for a breakout season at best and good improvement for our best 3 point shooter from last year, Singler, and I'm actually thinking Jennings will show good growth as now he's a family man!

@Seb - Don't get upset about those Pistons that are gone, Joe never had any use for them anyway, and only remembered them when his ass was in trouble! Zeke is part owner and still around, so I'm cool!

@Wise - You turned on Knight after one stinking season from a young player, and you're complaining about basically the whole basketball world turning on Josh? Please! Knight didn't earn that from you, but if Josh gets bad press, it's fully earned! I don't agree with all of the negatives because there are other factors, especially last year, but I do see their points about him!

[WTF]

 

[Sparma]

Even without knowing the fate of Smith and Monroe, I'm committed to the prediction that the Pistons move to at least 35 wins.  Using their 29 wins as point of reference, 20% would be 5.8 wins, making 35 wins a tad more than 20%.

Exciting?!  I may not be willing to go much over the 35, once the dust settles, but that's still quite a bump.  If I improved by 20% in some core area of my life over the next year, I'd be ecstatic.  20% improvement in a year would be stellar in most endeavors in life.  35 wins ain't much, I understand, but it's a real jump from past years.

SVG's made moves with an eye to quick improvement, rather than championship contention.  He's chosen with an eye to fit, to enhancing opportunities for success for the Piston holdovers, to his coaching style, and with a commitment to a design of his own making.  If and when we get to the point of contention we likely won't be worrying about how good Butler is, because he'll likely be gone.  Stan's trying to move the team in the right direction and I think he'll succeed at that (overly modest?) goal.

[Sebastian]

Strange how Josh and Stuckey is getting bashed on several on various forums and media articles considering without these 2 the team would have been lucky to win 5 games this season.  Beyond many so called fans lack of NBA knowledge that is engulf in stupidity and biasness of what they perceived being true by way of twitter and instagram not what their actually seeing on the court.  These guys accounted for a large chunk of Detroit's offense and carried the team more times than not but they're the bad guys.

Stuckey, as far as his career numbers goes been very consistent during his time here considering trying to play for 6 different coaches in 7 different seasons.  F@ck lets see how many of you would respond in your first 7 years of a job and having 6 different bosses with different ideas and attitudes and see how f@cking  consistent you are.  What ever Stuckey short-comings were they a result of Joe, the various coaches and the organization dysfunctional behavior during the time he was here.  I'm hoping he shines over in Indy and not just a little but brighter than he ever could here.  

Josh, I swear this subject really is an indication of not only how sh!tty our fan base has become but the league in general has become.  How in one season can a fan base hate one player in such a short amount of time.  For all the reason they hate him for they could easily hate a number of players on this team more for.  But they see Josh as this dream killer (that dumb dream that Moose was PF though he has no PF skills) somehow he killed that dumb ass dream of all these casual fans that Monroe and Drummond would be the greatest big man tandem ever created.  Yeah he did all this by making Joe sign him and forcing him to start him at SF.

Two Guys, with more playoff experience than the entire team collectively are constantly bashed.  Stuckey because he was suppose to magically overcome the dysfunctions of this organization and make them winners and he didn't, and Josh basically for being a better PF than he is a SF.  The idea that Josh is in one season the cause of 4 years of inconsistency by Monroe is insane math and to a normal person the math don't quite add up but in the world of the idiot fan base it's perfect math.

Pistons, have always been my least favorite of Detroit's sport teams basketball as a whole.  It will never be as tough as football and hockey nor have the individual heroics as baseball often does.  I don't say this to say that I don't enjoy basketball (win it's play correctly) but the stupid fans and the media has taken a lot of joy out of it.  Basketball is a team sport and it requires all the players to win, no one players sorry (MJ, Zeke) win games alone and no one player losses games alone, but this is something casual fans and dumb ass media often forget.  For Bob Ryan to call Josh useless is just retarded and his dirt old ass should know this.  

Saying that a player makes other players around them better was usually applied to the play of your floor leader (PG) players like Magic, MJ, Kobe and Lebron kind of change that. I can't remember a big man where that could be applied to the point of bashing him on it.  But some ass hole say's Josh don't make the players around him better to criticize him and then I said to myself neither does anyone on the team including Jennings. But I thought about what player or players hurts the team the most and I kept coming up with Monroe and then Jennings.  Josh and Stuckey wasn't even close.  

Yo, Wise, I'd say that you are fully off of the SVG kool-aid, now. I am total agreement with everything that you have written in this post. Sho' you right, my man!!!

Addendum: If SVG trades Josh for the Kings' trash, then I believe that I will have to walk. I have been a loyal and faithful Pistons fan, since 1984, but I swear if SVG don't get more players on this roster that I like and gets rid of the few still, here, that I don't like, I will have to take my ball and leave, because I like many others see that the lineage to OUR Pistons lore has been broken and may never be reattached, again. Joe is gone. 'Sheed wasn't retained. There was no role/position found for Chaunce to assume in the organization. The next thing to happen is a move to Seattle, then puff, it'll be all gone.

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