When the mind goes bad, maggots should crawl out the ears

[deusXango]

I will give you guys A trade that makes sense. Josh Smith to Sacramento for Ben McLamore and 2 bad Sacramento contract. Jason Terry, Williams, or Thompson.

Phillip, this statement alone convinces me that you're out of your F'ing mind! You've blown a hole in everything we potentially have going for ourselves and suggested setting the franchise back for at least 5-years....5 more years of non-contention sounds so much like what would appeal to Joe Dumars.

[deusXango]

So it seems as if SVG preferences from 1st to last are this:

1.  Keep both Monroe and Smith Logical; three diversely talented, young, big men anchoring a rebuilding team. Who could ask for better?
2.  Keep Monroe, trade Smith This should be #3 because Monroe's #1 preference is to leave Detroit; this is a major sticking point IMO.
3.  Keep Smith, trade Monroe This is where we should be now (s & t) instead of exploring trades for Smith that would result in a downgrade for us.

And Monroe's preferences look like this:

1.   Leave Detroit Monroe's #1 preference is to leave Detroit? I think that should be honored if it's true.
2.   Stay in Detroit, but have Smith traded Monroe will stay under the conditions that he's allowed to make personnel decisions for the GM? Sh!t.
3.   Stay in Detroit along with Smith This is where we started (a three big man rotation) and if Monroe is not on board with that; it's the tip of the iceberg.

So if one considers all options, the option that is the best compromise and satisfies both Monroe and SVG to a certain degree is option 2...keep Monroe, trade Smith.

Murph, I see you working but, don't overvalue Monroe; you know too much about the game. Good post.

[Murph]

So it seems as if SVG preferences from 1st to last are this:

1. Keep both Monroe and Smith
2. Keep Monroe, trade Smith
3. Keep Smith, trade Monroe

And Monroe's preferences look like this:

1. Leave Detroit
2. Stay in Detroit, but have Smith traded
3. Stay in Detroit along with Smith

So if one considers all options, the option that is the best compromise and satisfies both Monroe and SVG to a certain degree is option 2...keep Monroe, trade Smith.

[WTF]

" Jeff Green and Sullinger?"

Trade A promising 24 year old, 6''11'' G.Monroe for Jeff Green. A kid who is not good at any 1 thing, knows to be very inconsistent, and had open heart surgery. And Sullenger. A undersize, UN-athletic, tweener, who is know for having overweight issues and knee issues?   

Man O Man. Piston fans. let's do our research on some of the guys we want to trade for. So that way if we suggest A trade it makes some kind of basketball sense.


I will give you guys A trade that makes sense. Josh Smith to Sacramento for Ben McLamore and 2 bad Sacramento contract. Jason Terry, Williams, or Thompson.


Detroit can buy out Terry, decline Williams option after the season is over, and move Thompson or keep him as the bench PF/Center with A solid mid-range game.

That's A win win for everybody...

Your proposal is 10 times worst than mine, buddy. Your proposal is a trade for straight trash and another SG that would complicated the signing of F@ckin' Jodie Meeks.

But, something has to be done with Moose.

SOUR PEE BOY PEES IN DA BED

[Sebastian]

" Jeff Green and Sullinger?"

Trade A promising 24 year old, 6''11'' G.Monroe for Jeff Green. A kid who is not good at any 1 thing, knows to be very inconsistent, and had open heart surgery. And Sullenger. A undersize, UN-athletic, tweener, who is know for having overweight issues and knee issues?   

Man O Man. Piston fans. let's do our research on some of the guys we want to trade for. So that way if we suggest A trade it makes some kind of basketball sense.


I will give you guys A trade that makes sense. Josh Smith to Sacramento for Ben McLamore and 2 bad Sacramento contract. Jason Terry, Williams, or Thompson.


Detroit can buy out Terry, decline Williams option after the season is over, and move Thompson or keep him as the bench PF/Center with A solid mid-range game.

That's A win win for everybody...

Your proposal is 10 times worst than mine, buddy. Your proposal is a trade for straight trash and another SG that would complicated the signing of F@ckin' Jodie Meeks.

But, something has to be done with Moose.

[Phil-Good]

" Jeff Green and Sullinger?"

Trade A promising 24 year old, 6''11'' G.Monroe for Jeff Green. A kid who is not good at any 1 thing, knows to be very inconsistent, and had open heart surgery. And Sullenger. A undersize, UN-athletic, tweener, who is know for having overweight issues and knee issues?   

Man O Man. Piston fans. let's do our research on some of the guys we want to trade for. So that way if we suggest A trade it makes some kind of basketball sense.


I will give you guys A trade that makes sense. Josh Smith to Sacramento for Ben McLamore and 2 bad Sacramento contract. Jason Terry, Williams, or Thompson.


Detroit can buy out Terry, decline Williams option after the season is over, and move Thompson or keep him as the bench PF/Center with A solid mid-range game.

That's A win win for everybody...

[Sebastian]

How about a sign and trade with the Celtics: Moose and Singler for Jeff Green and Sullinger?

The Celtics need a Center and Singler fits perfectly as a Celtic. In exchange, WE get a versatile small forward and a good, young PF in Sullinger, both guys would fit in well with SVG's three point shooting strategy, also.

[WTF]

I only go back to the 70s as a bball fan but I wonder if the Spurs aren't the finest front office / coaching staff ever.  Sure they were fortunate enough to have their #1 pick be The Big Fundamental and not some shlub.   But, they have managed to remain Championship competitive for 16 years while building three distinct squads around Duncan.  Quite a feat.

Because they weren't firing coaches every other season is one reason,  the same thing with Utah at one time though they never won it all and of course Dallas as well.  The Spurs aren't always trying to reinvent themselves they just try to reload and continue doing what has work for them.  You know one of the things that use to bug me with Joe was that he was always looking for what was trending, I thinking that was his biggest problem he always kept trying to reinvent the team instead of doing what was working for him.  

Also when you think about the Spurs in how they deal with FA and players they don't tend to overvalue players. I can't blame SVG for wanting to model this organization to what the Spurs are doing but he's certainly off on the wrong foot as to how he's handle this Monroe and Josh mess.  Speaking of I have to give a big shout out to Josh for not becoming a part of this foolishness and keeping low and quiet. Good for you Josh

The Spurs are likely the more consistent best ran but if titles are being considered it LA.

[lemonpen]

I only go back to the 70s as a bball fan but I wonder if the Spurs aren't the finest front office / coaching staff ever. Sure they were fortunate enough to have their #1 pick be The Big Fundamental and not some shlub. But, they have managed to remain Championship competitive for 16 years while building three distinct squads around Duncan. Quite a feat.

[WTF]

Some encouraging news.


9 players who gained the most in NBA summer leagues

The first thought I had when reading this was a sign and trade for Monroe with the Cavs for Bennett and Varejo. Take expectation off of Bennett and let him backup Josh and have Varejo back up Andre.  I like Varejo hustle and Bennett could maybe live up to his potential one day with all the hype and pressure of being a #1 he could be headed to Bustville if he stays in Cleveland especially now with Lebrons returning could be more pressure than it is less.  Just a thought but I always thought he landed with the wrong team to begin with and an early change of scenery might do the trick.  

Your theory may be tested if Minny accepts the Cavs offer of Bennett, Wiggins and a 1st round pick.

Playing for Flip Saunders might not be a bad idea for Bennett, I think the Timberwolves should accept that offer from the Cavs and I'll revise my suggestion and offer up Monroe for Thompson and Varejo   

[lemonpen]

Some encouraging news.


9 players who gained the most in NBA summer leagues

The first thought I had when reading this was a sign and trade for Monroe with the Cavs for Bennett and Varejo. Take expectation off of Bennett and let him backup Josh and have Varejo back up Andre.  I like Varejo hustle and Bennett could maybe live up to his potential one day with all the hype and pressure of being a #1 he could be headed to Bustville if he stays in Cleveland especially now with Lebrons returning could be more pressure than it is less.  Just a thought but I always thought he landed with the wrong team to begin with and an early change of scenery might do the trick.  

Your theory may be tested if Minny accepts the Cavs offer of Bennett, Wiggins and a 1st round pick.

[lemonpen]

I don't agree with much of what Ellis attributes as limiting factors to Stuckeys growth and performance here, so I simply say, it appears the excuses have ended so now lets see what happens when the rubber hits the road.  Good luck Stuck in your new endevor

[WTF]

Some encouraging news.


9 players who gained the most in NBA summer leagues

The first thought I had when reading this was a sign and trade for Monroe with the Cavs for Bennett and Varejo. Take expectation off of Bennett and let him backup Josh and have Varejo back up Andre. I like Varejo hustle and Bennett could maybe live up to his potential one day with all the hype and pressure of being a #1 he could be headed to Bustville if he stays in Cleveland especially now with Lebrons returning could be more pressure than it is less. Just a thought but I always thought he landed with the wrong team to begin with and an early change of scenery might do the trick.

[lemonpen]

Smoove suffered the worst season of his career, after signing a contract becoming our highest paid player.    Reasons be damned, business is business.    But .....

Could it all be a rouse.  Could the organization be using Sacto's eagerness to get a deal done as a motivational factor.  Could Stan have set the expected return so high that Sacto has little chance of completing a deal which is fair to both sides.   Is this the Stones way of assuring themselves there will be no repeat down year.   No organization in their right mind would simply give Josh a pass.  They're obligated to complete some level of due diligence.  

I do hope this serves to promote a career best year.

[WTF]

I know it's the FA signing period but, we're way past the point that some resolution should have been reached with Greg Monroe. Does he want to be a Piston or not? Did he say he wanted Josh Smith traded for him to sign, or didn't he? Is he a max player or a Q.O. signee? Are teams interested in his services as a center or PF? None of this matters; what does matter is the players that are under contract right now!!!

Andre Drummond and Josh Smith needs talking up, not trade rumors about Smith and dissecting Drummond's game based on last years performance; how great can these players be this year under Van Gundy's coaching? That's some news worthy conjecture to be explored. What type of progress is Singler making this summer, now that starting in his natural position of SF finally seems to be a reality? What's his feelings about that prospect; how does he feel about playing on the perimeter with KCP, Meeks, and Jennings? How good does he think the interior duo of Drummond and Smith will be? Food for thought that'd be better than the daily slop we've been fed. What're the coaches views on this seasons progress; are they up for correcting the teams deficiencies? How satisfied is Gores with SVG's performance so far; what plans are at play to fill the empty seats that were experienced last year? A million and one things to talk about other than Monroe's damn none contract signing; any fan worth his salt knows that Monroe isn't a PF but, a center and the 2nd best center, and by default, the 2nd best PF on this team if/when he signs here; his contract should reflect that! Our team, as it stands now, should be receiving positive hype because, we've got a long ways to go under the new regime, unless it's going to be business as usual, which I doubt.

DX, I couldn't agree more on what the story around these parts should be right now. Shame on our local media for loosing focus on that and trying to fit in with the rest of the talking heads who aren't even talking about Moose, Josh or Drummond. Clearly its all the local rags around here that feeds the all Monroe vs Josh drama. I'm going to keep saying it but Vince Goodwill needs his ass kicked for those tweets and comments and bringing more fuel to what Monroe and SVG already claimed to be untrue.

The media should leave all the speculating to the fans and then not entertain it as being a valid resource for delivering news. Instead of waking up to see what's trending and then jump all over is f@cking ignorant, and yes all the locals have caught wind of our little forum and dip in here often not just happenstance that one of us bring up a subject or make comment only to see it within the next hour one of them asses are writing an article on it. Sadly though they take it and turn it into some BS because that's what they think we want.

Debate is fine and I enjoy doing so but I think most of us post here to share in discussion the success of the team. We expect more from the local media but I do want to say this I give much props to David Mayo, because his Q&A are a joy to read, he's not talking down to his readers as Goodwill and Ellis often do, or just down right rude as Sharp often does in criticizing Pistons Fans. Overall I think Mlive staff much more enjoyable to read.

[lemonpen]

Some encouraging news.


9 players who gained the most in NBA summer leagues

[WTF]

Nobody would have thought that guard would be a strength of this club, but if Jennings makes, even modest improvement, we may be really surprised!

Between Jennings, Augustin, Meeks and KCP, we have an interesting combination of scoring and playmaking to complement an athletic front court!

IMO, In that environment, Singler would be very effective at SF. And Seb, I do conceded that Singler isn't a starter on a good team, with only 2 years of experience, but last I looked, we weren't a good team    So cut the young man a break, he's better than Butler, and deserves the opportunity to start!

This isn't a bad group at all not the greatest but not really bad. Jennings has the same issues Josh has and that's shot selection and the occasional brain farts and if KCP stick to what his best suited being a scorer he'll be fine. There were times in SL I thought he was trying to show SVG that he can shoot he three and most of those were ill advised. Augustin proved he can run a team and Meeks can shoot the rock.

I guess you can make a case for either starting Singler or Butler rather we're a bad team or good team. Obviously if he's on a good team so that means he has better players around him so all he needs to be is serviceable as a SF and I think he can pulled that off here as well. Coaching and usage of our players were big and normally I don't pick at coaching but its been so horrible with Cheeks, Curry, and Kuester. I don't think Lil Larry was a dummy and had the right ideas just not the right players.

[WTF]

If the Pistons aren’t able to move Smith via trade, sliding him down to the power forward spot makes the most sense. He averaged 24.7 points, 11.5 rebounds and 3.8 assists per 48 minutes at that position. His per-48-minute PER at power forward was 17.8 versus 11.5 at small forward, according to 82games, so it’s not as if he’s a lost cause. He just needs to stop shooting three-pointers.

Seriously, SVG should make him do 20 push-ups every time he hoists a brick from deep.

Anyway, if Detroit opts to move Smith to power forward with Drummond at center, the odd man out is Monroe

The above quote from a Bleacher Report article on rather the Pistons are quietly pushing Monroe out of the door really doesn't identify Josh as a bad fit but what many have concluded just visually watching the games last season. Stop playing him at SF and use him appropriately because he's a PF even though small and agile enough at time to play SF.

I have no doubts SVG wants to keep Moose but he doesn't want to do it at any cost, I understand Monroe issue of wanting to start and getting bulk of minutes where he's best suited to play which is a the center position. SVG is correct and I agree with him having all three makes this team that much better but Monroe is not buying into SVG plan in large part Falk has convince him he's worth a max deal playing out of position but sadly truth is he's not even a max player in his correct position at least not now.

I've been saying this all of last season and since the end of the season that the issue has always been more about Andre and Moose than is with Josh and Moose but that decision has already been made as to who's the better center. As much as I bash Monroe I know that he could be most effective playing behind both Josh and Andre backing up both position and still clocking starter minutes. Problem is he's not going to get a max deal to do this so if he was really all about winning and doing what best for the team he would have accepted that 60/5yr deal which was more than generous. However I'm hoping SVG is smart enough to pull this deal off the table now and publically before Monroe accepts it.

You see we watched far too many players more talented than Monroe, just as deserving to start come off the bench for the betterment of the team. Many of our own players Mark, Sheed, and even Stuckey to some degree. We saw other players do it with other teams most currently Ginobli with the SA Spurs and it all worked out fine and everyone is happy when the team wins. 33M/3yrs with a team option on the 3rd year is fair money to accept the role of backing up Josh and Andre period.

I hope he comes to his senses and accept a deal like this and come off of the bench because right now he has a lot to prove because he's over sold himself and raised the eyebrows of many teams with his behavior during this process.

[Oracle]

Nobody would have thought that guard would be a strength of this club, but if Jennings makes, even modest improvement, we may be really surprised!

Between Jennings, Augustin, Meeks and KCP, we have an interesting combination of scoring and playmaking to complement an athletic front court!

IMO, In that environment, Singler would be very effective at SF. And Seb, I do conceded that Singler isn't a starter on a good team, with only 2 years of experience, but last I looked, we weren't a good team    So cut the young man a break, he's better than Butler, and deserves the opportunity to start!

[Oracle]

I can almost guarantee you that Monroe has had some really good offers from more than one team, but when you're fixed on a max offer, you turn them down!

Unfortunately, everybody that made him offers went on to make moves with players that actually knew their worth and were willing to sign right away! Monroe's agent convinced him that a max offer was coming, and to sit tight!

Faulk effed up, and Monroe is left holding the bag, so here's the appropriate response(s) from the Pistons!

1. 5 years 45-50M
2. 3 years 27M, he ain't better than Lance, IMO!
3. Produce a S&T partner, we're too busy to bother with that sh!t!
4. Take the QO
5. Kiss our ass and we'll both be happy!

In any case of him playing here next season, he's coming off the bench as the backup center or PF... PERIOD!

In short, Monroe has absolutely no cards left to play, and for SVG, it should be hardball time!

The good faith I had in Monroe is all gone, and can only be earned back by accepting whatever role SVG has for him and performing at a very high level!

Josh may have his problems, but him and Drummond will make a stunningly athletic frontcourt, and I have great visions of those two defending like demons and backing folks down in the paint on offense!

Let's get this party started!!!

[deusXango]

Now for the Pistons, it is getting down to exactly who does want Greg Monroe? And how much will they give up in a sign and trade knowing that Monroe cannot defend playoff quality players. We might not end up with anything worth talking about. If so I will be happy to move on with or without Greg.

Don, have you noticed how many GM's closed the door on bidding/signing for Monroe's services by signing less hyped players, albeit, more functional centers? Kamen to Portland was the most stunning; a sign & trade was suggested, Monroe for Batum, and BAM! Chris Kamen had a contract and guess what? Portland and true basketball fans know that was the best move. Talking about the junk Sacramento was offering for Smith, what's been rumored to be offered for Monroe? Has there been any quality offers for our dynamic big man? WTF has Falk been doing, other than trying to stick up SVG?

[deusXango]

I know it's the FA signing period but, we're way past the point that some resolution should have been reached with Greg Monroe. Does he want to be a Piston or not? Did he say he wanted Josh Smith traded for him to sign, or didn't he? Is he a max player or a Q.O. signee? Are teams interested in his services as a center or PF? None of this matters; what does matter is the players that are under contract right now!!!

Andre Drummond and Josh Smith needs talking up, not trade rumors about Smith and dissecting Drummond's game based on last years performance; how great can these players be this year under Van Gundy's coaching? That's some news worthy conjecture to be explored. What type of progress is Singler making this summer, now that starting in his natural position of SF finally seems to be a reality? What's his feelings about that prospect; how does he feel about playing on the perimeter with KCP, Meeks, and Jennings? How good does he think the interior duo of Drummond and Smith will be? Food for thought that'd be better than the daily slop we've been fed. What're the coaches views on this seasons progress; are they up for correcting the teams deficiencies? How satisfied is Gores with SVG's performance so far; what plans are at play to fill the empty seats that were experienced last year? A million and one things to talk about other than Monroe's damn none contract signing; any fan worth his salt knows that Monroe isn't a PF but, a center and the 2nd best center, and by default, the 2nd best PF on this team if/when he signs here; his contract should reflect that! Our team, as it stands now, should be receiving positive hype because, we've got a long ways to go under the new regime, unless it's going to be business as usual, which I doubt.

[cool breeze]

I remember when Joe Dumars worked real hard to sign Jason Maxiell to his 2nd contract. We just had to have that amazing talent. And on it went extending Richard Hamilton's huge contract and signing Charlie V and Ben Gordon to horrible contracts. But the best of all was Rodney Stuckey who was the player Dumars wanted to build his team around. We just had to sign Rodney for whatever it took at the time of his last contract signing. It is our top priority according to all the articles in the Detroit News. But exactly what other teams were lining up to sign Stuckey then? Nobody could tell us and management didn't want anyone to ask. 

We all waited for something to happen with our amazing players. It turned out that Stuckey couldn't hold a starting job down on a horrible team for his last 3 years as a Piston. Now he is signing for the vet minimum. So he is going from 8.5 Mil to what exactly Piston fans? Have we all been tricked by Piston management or did some of us say what Joe was doing was stupid?

 Now it is understandable that SVG is having difficulty removing Joe's players. There was a lot of hype about how valuable Greg Monroe is to the Piston future. Every team in the league was lined up to sign him. Yet I watched Monroe jog down the floor looking out of shape or possibly having health issues which prevented him from playing all out when it counted in crunch time last winter when he was aware that he needed to bring his best game to collect on a big contract.  I think Wisefan and myself might be tied for the amount of times we bitched about his play after lost games. He was not alone of course in stinking up the Palace but it was clear to me that he was not a really good player. He was more of a liability because he couldn't play defense. Remember how many times he would wander out beyond the free throw line on defense?  The ball would go inside between Greg and the basket and then would look back like a deer in the headlights and say to himself, oops I did it again. Maybe he was saying to himself, damn me sometimes I piss myself off. You could almost read his mind in those situations but he never got it and you can bet that three different coaching staffs were on him about that mistake. Monroe becomes a restricted free agent but how does his agent spin those moments I described above?  Greg's agent is using smoke and mirrors to squeeze max money out of SVG. But Stan is not Joe Dumars and isn't falling for it. And surprise, all of the other GMs in the league know Greg's strengths and weaknesses. And as I said during the playoffs, I don't think that any Piston player could make the rotation on any playoff team with the exception of Singler this past year based on their performances. And Monroe would have been a lost puppy in any of those games because he has extremely slow feet and very predictable offensive moves that can be stopped by playoff teams. Maybe he could have received some minutes to replace the other big slug Roy Hibbert on the Pacer team. Roy stood out in the playoffs this year to me for being a day late and a dollar short in most of the games the Pacers played. 

Now for the Pistons, it is getting down to exactly who does want Greg Monroe? And how much will they give up in a sign and trade knowing that Monroe cannot defend playoff quality players. We might not end up with anything worth talking about. If so I will be happy to move on with or without Greg.

[WTF]

Wise, unless you follow Goodwill on twitter, you may not know how big a jerk he really is!

He has such a high opinion of himself, I don't think he can see how totally STUPID he really is!

Sadly, I follow him during times of fast breaking news, but I quickly drop his ass during the season!

I really tried to give him a chance, but now he's got a big head and doesn't think his stuff smells!

I'm still trying to figure out how he got that job, what did he do before coming to the News? What were his qualifications? I can't seem to find anything on that dude!

BTW, I'm also beginning to come around to preferring Josh over Monroe! I'm really tired of this process, and I don't like the underhanded way Monroe is conducting his business!

Oracle I never cared for Goodwill right from the moment they posted his mug next to his first article because he came off as a know it all. I mean I read his stuff but pick from it what I think is valid. He came on board bashing Rip so bad I thought he was part of AI entourage.

I think I've gotten to point I don't even care what they do with Josh or Monroe now SVG saying he doesn't even know if Monroe would take a max deal if Josh was here or not. You would think that after dealing with D-Ho and getting fired he would be a little more tougher now that he's both coach and Pres but he's being played like a puss.

But I'm starting to laugh as some of the media stepping back from their comments yesterday they know that crap was wrong, and they put both SVG and Monroe on the spot now everybody's character is being questioned after the free for all on Josh yesterday.

SVG needs to deal with Monroe like the Suns are dealing with Bledsoe who seems to think he's worth 85M/5yr and hasn't made an All Star game or playoffs. Same thing with Rubio already yakking about wanting a Max contract next year.   

I'll say it again we should have traded his ass for draft picks last summer.

[Oracle]

Wise, unless you follow Goodwill on twitter, you may not know how big a jerk he really is!

He has such a high opinion of himself, I don't think he can see how totally STUPID he really is!

Sadly, I follow him during times of fast breaking news, but I quickly drop his ass during the season!

I really tried to give him a chance, but now he's got a big head and doesn't think his stuff smells!

I'm still trying to figure out how he got that job, what did he do before coming to the News? What were his qualifications? I can't seem to find anything on that dude!

BTW, I'm also beginning to come around to preferring Josh over Monroe! I'm really tired of this process, and I don't like the underhanded way Monroe is conducting his business!

Cast your peepers on this: Stan Van Gundy doesn't know if Greg Monroe would accept max contract from Pistons - Sick!!!

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