Re: FORUM

[cool breeze]

From somebody that knows him well - Kentucky’s Calipari sees Cheeks helping shape Knight’s future

He also explains why Knight may need help with the pick & roll.

Oracle I wish that all Piston fans who keep wanting to trade Knight or believe is isn't capable of becoming a top point guard would read this article you were so kind to share with us. I have believed in Knight from day 1 and know if he can avoid injuries, Brandon will take our Piston team to the promise land. Patience with all our young guys is the key and I hope the owners are smart enough to know that. There are some really strong NBA teams in their prime right now but what will things look like in 2 or 3 more years? How many years did it take for Billups to become the player he was when Detroit won the championship? Dumars has made the mistake of giving away players like Affalo. Will the pressure to win now be so great that more mistakes will be made by the GM and the owners? What Brandon's college coach didn't mention was the big men who NBA point guards play with. Bigs need to develop at least 3 shooting options to be successful with that play. We know Knight's work ethic is off the charts. Will he be able to get the big men to follow his lead regarding hard work? Great stuff Oracle!

[Oracle]

From somebody that knows him well - Kentucky’s Calipari sees Cheeks helping shape Knight’s future

He also explains why Knight may need help with the pick & roll.

[deusXango]

Don, I have so much respect for you, I really do, for your knowledge of competitive sports (from top to bottom), your actual participation in competition, and your ability to dissect offences/set defensive schemes. You're a straight shooter, and as a result of perceiving all these things about you, I read every word you post, with as open a mind as I possibly can. I've never read where you endorsed any player to be gifted a spot on a team, without earning it; I've never read where you felt it was good for the fabric of a teams' morale for a singular player to be given a sense of entitlement, no matter how his performances or consistency sucked. You realize that at the highest level of competition, there must be a thinning out process, and no excuse's allowed.

Rodney Stuckey, IMHO, has had all the wrong things go right for him, and as a result, he's neglected giving himself wholeheartedly, to the things that would have made him a standout pro, which is not right! This behavior has gone on for years, and he's lived under the protection of Joe Dumars. Being a lackadaisical fixture on the team, with no improvement on his skill set, his lack of constructive effort was replaced with excuse making by local media and his dwindling fan base. I refuse to believe that sore toes made him the poor finisher at the rim he's been for the last four years; bad ankles hasn't had him at odds with ALL his recent coaches, nor should they have had false blame layed on them for his lack of development, if feet, ankles, and toes were the culprits. That's another excuse Don, valid as it may be, but if that was the case, wouldn't we have heard about it from Ellis, Langlois, or Goodwill?

As likable as Stuckey may be, he's not the player that was sold to us fans years ago, the league has grown too competitive for the lazy to hang with, as paying fans we deserve to see the best exhibit their skill (he's not one of the best!), and we're entering the waters where, like it or not, he'll become a team cancer. I may be wrong about why Stuckey hasn't lived up to expectations, but he hasn't lived up to my expectations and that's for damn sure!

[cool breeze]

I don't know Rodney Stuckey but I sure have watched him play a lot of basketball. He seems like a really nice man who is always under control. And It is unlikely that he doesn't want to be a force in the NBA. So what has gone wrong? My gut feeling right now is that Stuckey has suffered from a variety of injuries to his ankles, feet and big toes on both feet. This has gone on for about 4 years now. Rodney looked like he was not interested in being on the court last season with the exception of maybe 15 games. He has suffered from a lot of toe injuries. Everyone reacts differently to pain but I know from personal experience of running a lot of marathons that accepting the pain in order to participate in what you want to do is not easy to do. There is so much starting and stopping in basketball and one little tendon or muscle can take you over in a bad way. I know that Knight suffered from some painful injuries last season as well with planter f. as well as one severe ankle injury. This is part of the game. Everyone was down on Billups when they lost in the Final 4 on their last appearance but again Billups just couldn't play at his best. This reminds me of our hero, Isiah Thomas, who had a ankle 4 times as big as it should from an injury in the first game of the Finals against the Lakers. Somehow Zeke found a way to play in every game and play outstanding. Can Stuckey somehow rise above his painful body parts and show Piston fans something new about his ability to compete in the NBA for an entire season? Should he be traded before his sustains another injury? What if any teams have expressed interest in Rodney Stuckey? Would he be happier playing somewhere on the West coast in lower humidity where the joints do not swell up as much?

[lemonpen]

Many have asked why sign Will Bynum to a new contract.  My answer is IDK.  
Something Lee357 said that stuck with me is "you can't trade CAP space; nor can it be used as trade filler."

A lot of really big player moves require an assortment of nobodies to fill in the $$$$ voids.  So, generally speaking unless yours is a team dangling the big contract everyone else wants it is wise to maximize the number of assets held thus increasing the probability for inclusion.

While WillieB isn't All Star material, he ain't dog poop either.  He could likely improve half the benches in the L.

[cool breeze]

Do any of you watch the NBA TV and the "Open Court" series? Two Detroit retirees Chris Webber and Steve Smith are joined with Shaq, Steve Kerr, Kenny the Jet Smith and Sir Charles. I watched one show where they discussed Carl Malone and Dennis Rodman. They kind of related opinions on Malone that I had written about in earlier posts. Malone was a master playing the pick and roll. And he was always in fantastic physical condition for a big man always running the court full out for the entire game and an entire season and then an entire playoff season. But what was even more interesting was those players take on Dennis Rodman. They showed some film when he played for the Pistons. All agreed that he was one of the top freak athletes ever to play the game. Steve Kerr pointed out that he loved playing with Rodman because he was never a ball hog. Steve said that Rodman wanted to be different so he would go out and get over 20 rebounds a night but never attempt a shot. Kerr went on to say that Rodman would have a layup and refuse to score instead passing the ball to a teammate. Then after each game he would work out on the stair master or tread mill for at least an hour. Steve Smith told about when he was really young and would be invited to a camp and Rodman would hang around and play video games with the kids for sometimes 3 hours just to be a nice guy. The cool thing was the fact that we Piston fans were able to enjoy Rodman in his real prime time when he was perhaps the most fit basketball player in the entire league. We also had him before all the crazy stuff started happening with him. If you get a chance watch this series. They all agreed on one thing that separates good NBA players from the players who are capable but somehow don't reach their potential. HARD WORK is the key. Too bad Charlie V never could figure that out.

Don, I have NBA TV, but I rarely watch their shows for some reason unless there is something going on! However, I will take a look at that one!

It's also the times those guys played in! To be one of the super teams of the 80's and early 90's, the level of competition was FIERCE!

That high level of competition was driven by the Boston Celtics in the east and the Lakers in the west, and later the Pistons took over and set the standard that the Bulls had to reach and overcome!

Although you can argue if the Bulls could have beaten the Lakers, Boston or the Pistons when they were in their prime, you still have to credit them with beating everybody they put in front of them!

I think we have the work ethic on this Piston team in Smith, Monroe, Drummond & Knight, but I also know that they won't know how much they need to work even harder until they get some playoff series under their belts!

You are right about that. In fact that subject was discussed by those 6 players in the discussion group on NBA TV. They all said that it was impossible to get up for regular season games because of the horrid schedule. You could seldom play your best because or get a real feel for your competition when one team might have an advantage of playing you on the back side of playing 5 games in 8 nights. The playoff games are scheduled so teams will have a more equal chance relating to rest between games. However, the regular season is important according to those players to set the tone as to how you want to play as a team. I think Kenny Smith said that when his team played against the Piston Bad Boys they always knew what would happen if they entered the lane to drive to the hoop. The Piston's policy was for one player to give a hard foul and then two other players would also join in and hit you. The thought was that a foul was going to be called anyway so why not inflict more punishment for free with the other two players hitting the guy because only one foul would be called on that play. Kenny said that when Joe Dumars was guarding him he would say don't go in there because "they" will hurt you Kenny. Joe was friendly but got his point across. Some day maybe our current guys will come up with something unique to create a strong bond on the court that other teams will fear. After listening to that stuff it brought a lot of great memories back about our Bad Boy Piston team. I just wonder how Joe Dumars would ever sign guys like Rodney White, Darko, Daye or Charlie V after being involved with the team he played on for the Pistons. I think that Thomas and Laimbeer would never allow that type of player on their team. Can you imagine a young Rodman playing with Charlie V? Charlie would go on the injured reserve list after one practice in the pre season.

[cool breeze]

Charlie V compared to Josh Smith? What a joke! It's true that before coming to Detroit, both had similar offensive numbers, but that's where the similarities end!

CV played on a worse team where he got a lot more opportunities, but more importantly, Smith did all of that and played STELLAR defense at the same time.

Offense sometimes doesn't travel with you, but defense does! Give me the better defensive player every time(all things being equal), and we'll sort out the offense!

@DX & partially @Don: DX, that 2nd unit lineup is really good, even if you could make a strong case for Middleton starting, but if he's as good as I think he is, he may eventually get it!

However, the biggest thing in your lineup that would give some problems is Drummond! Don has consistently called out the big men as needing to prove themselves.

I'm not in total agreement with him on Monroe even though Monroe has to work on his midrange and defense, but he's right on target with Drummond, unfortunately, politically, Drummond will never land on the 2nd unit!

Drummond may not hurt us much in the regular season, but in the playoffs if his FT shooting doesn't improve, hack a Drummond is almost a guaranteed play! Facing teams like Indiana whose bigs are just as big and strong, Drummond is going to need some moves down low to score or the PG play is going to have to be superior!

IMO, Drummond is still a 2nd unit player who is being forced into the starting unit, and it may be good or bad, the jury is still out.

Backcourt, @Don:  Don, you're very correct about Calderon! He couldn't get the pick & roll working with our undersized(Maxiell) and slow(Monroe) frontcourt any better than Knight, so you can't lay that at Knight's doorstep!

I should have caught that, but I'm glad you're here to biotch slap me when I go off the rails .

We both know that Knight has work to do, and as I said, give me the player that can play defense, and that's Knight! My complaint areas are the ones that are his alone!
1. FT shooting(73% is ridiculous for a PG)
2. Silly passes
3. Splitting defenders in risky situations
4. Finishing at the rim(he's way better than Stuckey, but needs work)

He's a VERY young player, but he has the superior tools, they just need honing! To answer Murph, the probability of Knight becoming serviceable is WAY higher than Burke just getting the NBA this coming season. Also if your vision is an athletic team, Burke doesn't fit, and MCW is on the edge.

If you draft a Burke or MCW, at #8, you should make every attempt to start them, but for a them that needs to make the playoffs, that's much too risky. Besides, the silly stuff that would occur if we drafted Burke would have been a complete circus side show, the Burke fans would complain no matter what Joe did!

The Bottom Line: While the talking head just have to fill up any available space with wild speculation and even wilder so called "Facts", there is a basic truth to what's being said.

The Backcourt AND the Frontcourt both have problems that need to be worked out. The difference is that the frontcourt is getting the benefit of the doubt as to if it will be good and the backcourt is assumed to be bad.

Those assumptions are based on "Feelings", and in this case, most likely gut feelings.

However, that's what makes me so excited about this coming season! There is risk, but there is so much possible reward! If things fail, we're in the lottery! But if they work, almost anything is possible with this team, and I don't rule out finishing in the top 4 if everything clicks.

The reality is most likely somewhere in between, and that in  itself is exciting!

No boitch slapping was intended Oracle. Keep your stuff coming I enjoy all of it. Regarding all the frenzy placed by fans about the Piston point guard position and Knight's ability to handle the job, I just have to add that there should be no pressure at all on Knight at this stage of his career. Patience is the key but I know he will be under a microscope this season and all blame will be placed on him if things don't go according the wishes of the fans who expect a miracle. That is why I have been poking holes in this belief that fans now have relating to our big men with Smith now on board. And of course our reporters now have somehow figured that Jerebco is the odd man out without one practice session. Our big men were horrible last season. None were consistent players at both ends of the floor. Monroe was one of the worst defenders in the game. And another defect in Monroe's game is the fact that he is not quick to the ball when trying to get defensive rebounds. He needs to anticipate to make up for his lack of foot speed. That is why I suspect that Smith will be playing a lot of power forward this season. He won't like it but he will need to suck it up because of that big contract. Smith will have to ask himself what people will think about him once his playing days are over. Smith is capable of being a real impact player if he will do what those retired stars talked about on NBA TV -WORK HARD ON YOUR GAME. Monroe is still young and he does move well on offense. Monroe has just not really focused on defense and maybe Smith will help him in that area. I expect nothing from Drummond this season. He needs to get in better physical condition and just listen to Rasheed and enjoy himself in his 2nd season. There are way too many expectations on this guy and he will be 20 years old when the season starts. Drummond needs to put in a lot of work and he seems to be doing it right now. Basketball needs to be a fun thing and no pressure right now for this guy. Now for Jerebco. JJ offers something no other big guy can offer. He can run the court really fast. He might really complement a guy like Smith if the Pistons go to an up tempo type of offense. And Jerebco is a good defender. Drummond, Smith and Jerebco playing with Knight and another fast 2 guard could be really fun to watch. I just hope that Dumars doesn't give away Jerebco just to reduce competition for spots. That is what Joe has done in the past to protect guys like Daye and Stuckey. Will he do it again? Right now the players that do not fit this team are Bynum and Charlie V. What will Dumars do about that?

[Oracle]

Do any of you watch the NBA TV and the "Open Court" series? Two Detroit retirees Chris Webber and Steve Smith are joined with Shaq, Steve Kerr, Kenny the Jet Smith and Sir Charles. I watched one show where they discussed Carl Malone and Dennis Rodman. They kind of related opinions on Malone that I had written about in earlier posts. Malone was a master playing the pick and roll. And he was always in fantastic physical condition for a big man always running the court full out for the entire game and an entire season and then an entire playoff season. But what was even more interesting was those players take on Dennis Rodman. They showed some film when he played for the Pistons. All agreed that he was one of the top freak athletes ever to play the game. Steve Kerr pointed out that he loved playing with Rodman because he was never a ball hog. Steve said that Rodman wanted to be different so he would go out and get over 20 rebounds a night but never attempt a shot. Kerr went on to say that Rodman would have a layup and refuse to score instead passing the ball to a teammate. Then after each game he would work out on the stair master or tread mill for at least an hour. Steve Smith told about when he was really young and would be invited to a camp and Rodman would hang around and play video games with the kids for sometimes 3 hours just to be a nice guy. The cool thing was the fact that we Piston fans were able to enjoy Rodman in his real prime time when he was perhaps the most fit basketball player in the entire league. We also had him before all the crazy stuff started happening with him. If you get a chance watch this series. They all agreed on one thing that separates good NBA players from the players who are capable but somehow don't reach their potential. HARD WORK is the key. Too bad Charlie V never could figure that out.

Don, I have NBA TV, but I rarely watch their shows for some reason unless there is something going on! However, I will take a look at that one!

It's also the times those guys played in! To be one of the super teams of the 80's and early 90's, the level of competition was FIERCE!

That high level of competition was driven by the Boston Celtics in the east and the Lakers in the west, and later the Pistons took over and set the standard that the Bulls had to reach and overcome!

Although you can argue if the Bulls could have beaten the Lakers, Boston or the Pistons when they were in their prime, you still have to credit them with beating everybody they put in front of them!

I think we have the work ethic on this Piston team in Smith, Monroe, Drummond & Knight, but I also know that they won't know how much they need to work even harder until they get some playoff series under their belts!

[cool breeze]

Do any of you watch the NBA TV and the "Open Court" series? Two Detroit retirees Chris Webber and Steve Smith are joined with Shaq, Steve Kerr, Kenny the Jet Smith and Sir Charles. I watched one show where they discussed Carl Malone and Dennis Rodman. They kind of related opinions on Malone that I had written about in earlier posts. Malone was a master playing the pick and roll. And he was always in fantastic physical condition for a big man always running the court full out for the entire game and an entire season and then an entire playoff season. But what was even more interesting was those players take on Dennis Rodman. They showed some film when he played for the Pistons. All agreed that he was one of the top freak athletes ever to play the game. Steve Kerr pointed out that he loved playing with Rodman because he was never a ball hog. Steve said that Rodman wanted to be different so he would go out and get over 20 rebounds a night but never attempt a shot. Kerr went on to say that Rodman would have a layup and refuse to score instead passing the ball to a teammate. Then after each game he would work out on the stair master or tread mill for at least an hour. Steve Smith told about when he was really young and would be invited to a camp and Rodman would hang around and play video games with the kids for sometimes 3 hours just to be a nice guy. The cool thing was the fact that we Piston fans were able to enjoy Rodman in his real prime time when he was perhaps the most fit basketball player in the entire league. We also had him before all the crazy stuff started happening with him. If you get a chance watch this series. They all agreed on one thing that separates good NBA players from the players who are capable but somehow don't reach their potential. HARD WORK is the key. Too bad Charlie V never could figure that out.

[cool breeze]

Oracle, you made an astute observation, in pointing out the positive attitude most fans have for our frontcourt, as opposed to our backcourt, and these negative assumptions are based on gut feelings; these are some things that make my stomach flip.

Chauncey Billups was often injured during his peak years, even though the year he remained injury free, we won a championship, but he's 37 years old now, coming off a rather serious injury, and has been a basketball gypsy since leaving Detroit. When will injury and age take a toll on him?

Will Bynum seems to be on a "reward for past services rendered" contract, more so than actually being needed as a 3rd PG (at that price); what's the purpose of having him take up a roster space, with little or no trade value, and contributing to "guard overload" on the team?

Rodney Stuckey having exhausted all excuses for his lack of stellar production (he has put up mediocre numbers compared to players who've been tagged as the future of their franchises), has now turned to be viewed as a reclamation project; a six year career, without major injury or great loss of playing time, for a player who's always dominated the ball, is a reclamation project!!

In my mind, these three players potentially stand in the way of the development of two young, promising PG candidates; Brandon Knight who's constantly ridiculed for his PG play and being viewed as in a "make it or break it" year at PG, is being edged toward playing SG (where he'll be out-classed by opposing SG's and can't prove a thing as a PG, playing SG) by Billups or Stuckey, both of whom are viewed as better PG's than Knight, depending on whom you talk to. Peyton Siva, a natural PG who can't/doesn't shoot vs. a machine gunning, ball hogging PG can't get a spot on our roster because of Bynum's presence; Joe doesn't want to loose the rights to Siva, so he should go over to Europe and refine his game, but we have a European MVP who has to prove himself. If I didn't make any sense with that, now you know what's going on inside of me when I think about our backcourt.

dX your analysis does make sense. You have seen through all the bull. Remember the News reporters were all saying they were surprised that Dumars was able to sign Bynum for such a small amount of money. Really there is no way that any other NBA team would be so foolish to play Will that amount of money. Who wants a player that cannot defend any NBA player in a playoff situation? It is Joe Dumars idea to sign Bynum that makes no sense at all. I feared this would happen and maybe the owners had something to do with it being that Bynum is at best a circus act there to please the fans who know nothing about real basketball. This act is an extension of the owners new half time shows designed to bring in more people to fill the seats. Being that Dumars is the GM then we have to blame him now for the mess he has created relating to Siva. If only Joe could have waited a bit and watched Siva play in the summer league before offering that crazy contract to Bynum. We always seem to be saying (if only) at least for the past 4 years now. When things make no sense at all then I always believe that signing Bynum had nothing to do with improving the Detroit Pistons. Did it have something to do with Dumars relationship with Bynum's agent? Joe just couldn't hold back on spending that money. When I think about who Dumars could have obtained for that same amount of money it makes me ill. And what is even worse is the fact that this is another example that the people Dumars has around him to help him make decisions have to be about the worst people he could have ever hired. They must be YES men. I would just like Dumars to answer this one question. Joe what current playoff team would be interested in signing Will Bynum?? That says it all for me. I know Joe could not think of one team that would be that foolish. How can fans have confidence in Piston management?

[Oracle]

@DX - Very good post, and I agree! Unless we bring in a well established PG, Knight should get the start, and IMO, there is no excuse to have Bynum on the roster if it means Siva isn't! Stuckey is more complicated because if we can get a great first part of the season from him, moving him for a good player would be easier! Chauncey is good for a lot of reasons other than his ability to play! I actually think Chauncey would be better served as a spot up shooting SG rather than a PG. That's how he was used with the Clippers when healthy! CP3 was the primary PG with Chauncey at SG, but Chauncey could also bring the ball up at times, and it worked when CB was healthy!
 
@Phillip - It would be GREAT if we could nab Afflalo from the Magic! I wonder what we would have to give up, but we would immediately have a class SG to start for us, and a good leader! BTW, I think Joe is mostly done unless he gets a great offer from somewhere. He's not done in terms of the full season though! He will be looking to deal by the Feb deadline, and if we're playoff bound, there may be some later deals. But right now, the only moves I could possibly see are something involving Stuckey or CV!

In slow times, it's good to find interesting reading:

Here is a VERY good article on PG's BBall IQ, and what the top PG's do and know - Doc Rivers compares Chris Paul to Rondo

Then here is a short piece on was he right to do that - Is Doc Rivers Right to Compare Rajon Rondo to Chris Paul?

The big get bigger - Suns trade Scola to Pacers in 3-player deal

Happy reading!

[Phil-Good]

We still need A top flight point guard to run this team. We still need A top flight 2-guard to lead this team is scoring.

Pope is too young to know what we have in him so far. I would like to see Afflalo come back and start at the

2-guard spot for the Pistons. Orlando does not want him anymore after drafting the Indiana kid #2.

After those spots the Pistons should be good to go. Then it's just about playing together, getting along, working

hard and working to be the best defense in the NBA again.  

[deusXango]

Oracle, you made an astute observation, in pointing out the positive attitude most fans have for our frontcourt, as opposed to our backcourt, and these negative assumptions are based on gut feelings; these are some things that make my stomach flip.

Chauncey Billups was often injured during his peak years, even though the year he remained injury free, we won a championship, but he's 37 years old now, coming off a rather serious injury, and has been a basketball gypsy since leaving Detroit. When will injury and age take a toll on him?

Will Bynum seems to be on a "reward for past services rendered" contract, more so than actually being needed as a 3rd PG (at that price); what's the purpose of having him take up a roster space, with little or no trade value, and contributing to "guard overload" on the team?

Rodney Stuckey having exhausted all excuses for his lack of stellar production (he has put up mediocre numbers compared to players who've been tagged as the future of their franchises), has now turned to be viewed as a reclamation project; a six year career, without major injury or great loss of playing time, for a player who's always dominated the ball, is a reclamation project!!

In my mind, these three players potentially stand in the way of the development of two young, promising PG candidates; Brandon Knight who's constantly ridiculed for his PG play and being viewed as in a "make it or break it" year at PG, is being edged toward playing SG (where he'll be out-classed by opposing SG's and can't prove a thing as a PG, playing SG) by Billups or Stuckey, both of whom are viewed as better PG's than Knight, depending on whom you talk to. Peyton Siva, a natural PG who can't/doesn't shoot vs. a machine gunning, ball hogging PG can't get a spot on our roster because of Bynum's presence; Joe doesn't want to loose the rights to Siva, so he should go over to Europe and refine his game, but we have a European MVP who has to prove himself. If I didn't make any sense with that, now you know what's going on inside of me when I think about our backcourt.

[Oracle]

Charlie V compared to Josh Smith? What a joke! It's true that before coming to Detroit, both had similar offensive numbers, but that's where the similarities end!

CV played on a worse team where he got a lot more opportunities, but more importantly, Smith did all of that and played STELLAR defense at the same time.

Offense sometimes doesn't travel with you, but defense does! Give me the better defensive player every time(all things being equal), and we'll sort out the offense!

@DX & partially @Don: DX, that 2nd unit lineup is really good, even if you could make a strong case for Middleton starting, but if he's as good as I think he is, he may eventually get it!

However, the biggest thing in your lineup that would give some problems is Drummond! Don has consistently called out the big men as needing to prove themselves.

I'm not in total agreement with him on Monroe even though Monroe has to work on his midrange and defense, but he's right on target with Drummond, unfortunately, politically, Drummond will never land on the 2nd unit!

Drummond may not hurt us much in the regular season, but in the playoffs if his FT shooting doesn't improve, hack a Drummond is almost a guaranteed play! Facing teams like Indiana whose bigs are just as big and strong, Drummond is going to need some moves down low to score or the PG play is going to have to be superior!

IMO, Drummond is still a 2nd unit player who is being forced into the starting unit, and it may be good or bad, the jury is still out.

Backcourt, @Don:  Don, you're very correct about Calderon! He couldn't get the pick & roll working with our undersized(Maxiell) and slow(Monroe) frontcourt any better than Knight, so you can't lay that at Knight's doorstep!

I should have caught that, but I'm glad you're here to biotch slap me when I go off the rails .

We both know that Knight has work to do, and as I said, give me the player that can play defense, and that's Knight! My complaint areas are the ones that are his alone!
1. FT shooting(73% is ridiculous for a PG)
2. Silly passes
3. Splitting defenders in risky situations
4. Finishing at the rim(he's way better than Stuckey, but needs work)

He's a VERY young player, but he has the superior tools, they just need honing! To answer Murph, the probability of Knight becoming serviceable is WAY higher than Burke just getting the NBA this coming season. Also if your vision is an athletic team, Burke doesn't fit, and MCW is on the edge.

If you draft a Burke or MCW, at #8, you should make every attempt to start them, but for a them that needs to make the playoffs, that's much too risky. Besides, the silly stuff that would occur if we drafted Burke would have been a complete circus side show, the Burke fans would complain no matter what Joe did!

The Bottom Line: While the talking head just have to fill up any available space with wild speculation and even wilder so called "Facts", there is a basic truth to what's being said.

The Backcourt AND the Frontcourt both have problems that need to be worked out. The difference is that the frontcourt is getting the benefit of the doubt as to if it will be good and the backcourt is assumed to be bad.

Those assumptions are based on "Feelings", and in this case, most likely gut feelings.

However, that's what makes me so excited about this coming season! There is risk, but there is so much possible reward! If things fail, we're in the lottery! But if they work, almost anything is possible with this team, and I don't rule out finishing in the top 4 if everything clicks.

The reality is most likely somewhere in between, and that in  itself is exciting!

[cool breeze]

Josh Smith of the broken jump shot, has been maligned for being a detriment to the Detroit Pistons and he's not had his first practice yet! We need to leave that alone, until there's something solid to base our discontent on, meanwhile, let's welcome him to the "D" and hope for the best. Worse players than him have made radical changes in their games, and I don't see why we should join in on the national media's view of all things Motown, which is always negative! The very fact that Josh Smith's name is mentioned in the same sentence as Charlie Villanueva is an insult, not only to Smith, but every fan of the Pistons; there is no comparison whatsoever.

dX that is a laughable comparison relating to Charlie and Josh. Maybe that will make Smith work a little on his mid range shooting though if he hears that he is being compared with Charlie.

One thing people keep harping on as well is this idea that Knight cannot run a pick and roll play. I have pointed out the impossibility of running that type of play last season with Monroe and Maxiell playing so many minutes. Also, Drummond does set a nice pick but he has no offensive game other than trying to dunk the ball around the rim. One thing that made Carl Malone great was his ability to set a good pick for Stockton and then when he got the ball back Carl had a lot of options other than trying for an easy layup which becomes impossible in the playoffs due to teams that play great recovery defense. Malone could hit a variety of shots at many positions on the floor after receiving the pass on the pick and roll. I am not saying that Brandon doesn't have a lot to learn but this idea that the Pistons looked better with Calderon at the point is just not true and Calderon is a good point guard. He just couldn't get the pick and roll play working at Detroit because of the players around him. Not only were the Piston big men poor defenders but they didn't have a complete offensive game. For Detroit to improve those young big men must get better at both ends.

[deusXango]

C- Drummond
PF-Mitchell
SF-Singler
SG-Middleton
PG-Billups
Wouldn't that make one hell of a 2nd unit, theoretically? I threw that out there because the more I tinker with ideas, the more I'm convinced that with what Cheeks has to work with, it'll be hard for him to not get it right; he'll have to put real effort into getting things wrong.

[deusXango]

Josh Smith of the broken jump shot, has been maligned for being a detriment to the Detroit Pistons and he's not had his first practice yet! We need to leave that alone, until there's something solid to base our discontent on, meanwhile, let's welcome him to the "D" and hope for the best. Worse players than him have made radical changes in their games, and I don't see why we should join in on the national media's view of all things Motown, which is always negative! The very fact that Josh Smith's name is mentioned in the same sentence as Charlie Villanueva is an insult, not only to Smith, but every fan of the Pistons; there is no comparison whatsoever.

[Murph]

Worse or more unproven backcourts than the Pistons?

I think the key will be Billups and his health. If Billups can remain injury free, our backcourt should be adequate.

However, at 37 by the start of the season and often injured, Billups is only a stop-gap measure. Sooner or later, either Knight is going to have to develop, or the Pistons are going to have to aquire a starting PG.

Which, of course, is why we should have drafted Burke.

[merc]

Worse or more unproven backcourts than the Pistons?

[cool breeze]

The perception of Knight, while harsh, is unfortunately true to this point in his career! I think Joe/Cheeks will give him a short leash to change that opinion, but he really has work to do!

Here's what they're saying about Knight:

"The Pistons' need for a long-term solution at point guard might as well have a glaring neon sign above it. If there is one thing Jose Calderon's presence proved last season, it's that Brandon Knight is infinitely more comfortable playing away from the ball than creating. He doesn't shoot well off the dribble, isn't comfortable passing out of pick-and-roll sets and is average at just about every other offensive duty necessary to be an NBA point guard. On the other hand, Knight is a usable starting 2 in a pinch, and should fill out a solid destiny as a third guard." - NBA Trade Rumors: Pistons Shouldn't Rule out Brandon Jennings Sign-and-Trade(For the record, as much as I think Rondo may have problems, Jennings has them even worse! He thinks he's a star but he isn't, and he's a AI type guy that just shoots a ton of shots and hogs the ball while not playing a lick of defense!)

Knight thinks he's in Kyrie Irving's class, but the difference, IMO, is night and day! Irving shoots very well off the dribble, gets into the teeth of the defense and is capable of finishing regularly.

Locally, we all talk about Monroe & Drummonds performances at the USA Basketball tryouts, but if you actually saw the game(I did), the real standouts were Irving & Anthony Davis, who is a really nice player! - Best USA Basketball Showcase highlight: Coast-to-coast ‘Brow, Wall’s putback, Barnes-on-Anderson or Kyrie’s everything? (Videos)

Knight's defense is the thing that should get him a last chance, but he's got to get the rest of his game together if he wants to keep the job!

He doesn't have to be a bigger star than Irving, but he needs to be SOLID in his position, and that means staying good defensively, improving his FT shooting, passing and assisting better.

Good Luck Knight, I'm rooting for you!

Good commentary on Knight... they had it on the money until they suggested dealing BK for another chucker in Jennings... guys I'm just not feeling Knight's instincts nor his skills/mentality at the 1 position... been wrong b4... hope he succeeds.

Oracle and Mercury I am not buying into some of the stuff written relating to some discovery that was made relating to Knight once the Pistons picked up Calderon. I watched the games. Calderon had issues playing the pick and roll plays last season. He became frustrated because he couldn't run that type of stuff and had to settle for shooting the ball from the outside more than he wanted to. Knight adapted to the 2 guard but I really didn't see much of any difference between Knight and Calderon other than Jose was a more effective shooter. The real problem was not related to the point guard position which Frank's coaching staff would gladly point out if anyone was interested. The floor spacing was not good most of the time. The big men who point guards had to work with in running a pick and roll were not good at setting a screen or moving to the open area. The bigs were often a step slow. And the lack of a threat on the baseline with low percentage shooters operating out of the small forward spot allowed defenses to cheat. Some of the stuff written about Piston point guard play is so off base it makes me laugh. Get a Carl Malone type guy in his prime working with Knight on a pick and roll with a high percentage decoy long range shooter out at the 3 point line and nobody would be worrying so much about Piston point guards. I am still worried about of all things our big men. I know that Smith will really help but I am not so sure Monroe (slow foot speed) or Drummond (inexperienced) are going to be consistent players on either end of the floor this season. I still love the fact that they are Pistons but those two players need to show improvement on defense as well as offense. Piston fans need to show patience with this young team. Knight, Monroe and Drummond are still really young. This is a good development season for those 3 guys. Detroit is not going to win the championship this season but the team is going to hold their own a lot of the time and they should be fun to watch. Our core guys are still growing in many ways while the NBA is stocked with older stronger and more experienced pros that they will have to face. What I still really like about Brandon Knight is his athletic ability, mental attitude including his high IQ, and his work ethic. Please don't piss him off with so much negative comments which might influence him to want to sign with another club once he does become a real stud player. Fans and media are quick to judge anyone who plays the point guard position without considering such facts as Detroit's situation last season where Jason Maxiell started at power forward making it almost impossible to run a successful pick and roll play.

[cool breeze]

This speculation is pure madness at best. Vince has Luigi and Pope playing ahead of Singler and Middleton. If Cheeks is a good head coach he will not pre judge anything and will wait and see how things go in training camp and then make an educated decision as to who the best players are and who has earned playing time based on the facts. To say that Dead Eye Luigi is now automatically in the rotation along with Pope is really funny. Ellis, I am sure has never actually seen Luigi play basketball much like the rest of us and coach Cheeks. If Cheeks is forced to play Pope from the get go despite what happens in training camp then we are in for a rough season again. I would say that Middleton would have the edge on Pope and for sure Singler with his experience from last season would be able to beat out the Italian. Much will depend on how well guys play defense. This was a big weakness last season and I am sure after watching how well playoff teams played on the defensive end, Dumars patience with defensively challenged defenders has reached his limit. I see Pope perhaps earning playing time around December. It is difficult to think that Jerebco is the odd man out and I am sure he will be playing as well. A lot of people have discounted what certain players have been doing in the off season. Singler has been really working hard on his outside shooting and he was one of the best help defenders on the Piston team last season. He won playing time based on his consistent defensive effort. I say let the chips fall where they may and may the best players touch their feet on the hardwood when the season begins. I hate it when people just plug in players without considering much of anything.

[merc]

The perception of Knight, while harsh, is unfortunately true to this point in his career! I think Joe/Cheeks will give him a short leash to change that opinion, but he really has work to do!

Here's what they're saying about Knight:

"The Pistons' need for a long-term solution at point guard might as well have a glaring neon sign above it. If there is one thing Jose Calderon's presence proved last season, it's that Brandon Knight is infinitely more comfortable playing away from the ball than creating. He doesn't shoot well off the dribble, isn't comfortable passing out of pick-and-roll sets and is average at just about every other offensive duty necessary to be an NBA point guard. On the other hand, Knight is a usable starting 2 in a pinch, and should fill out a solid destiny as a third guard." - NBA Trade Rumors: Pistons Shouldn't Rule out Brandon Jennings Sign-and-Trade(For the record, as much as I think Rondo may have problems, Jennings has them even worse! He thinks he's a star but he isn't, and he's a AI type guy that just shoots a ton of shots and hogs the ball while not playing a lick of defense!)

Knight thinks he's in Kyrie Irving's class, but the difference, IMO, is night and day! Irving shoots very well off the dribble, gets into the teeth of the defense and is capable of finishing regularly.

Locally, we all talk about Monroe & Drummonds performances at the USA Basketball tryouts, but if you actually saw the game(I did), the real standouts were Irving & Anthony Davis, who is a really nice player! - Best USA Basketball Showcase highlight: Coast-to-coast ‘Brow, Wall’s putback, Barnes-on-Anderson or Kyrie’s everything? (Videos)

Knight's defense is the thing that should get him a last chance, but he's got to get the rest of his game together if he wants to keep the job!

He doesn't have to be a bigger star than Irving, but he needs to be SOLID in his position, and that means staying good defensively, improving his FT shooting, passing and assisting better.

Good Luck Knight, I'm rooting for you!

Good commentary on Knight... they had it on the money until they suggested dealing BK for another chucker in Jennings... guys I'm just not feeling Knight's instincts nor his skills/mentality at the 1 position... been wrong b4... hope he succeeds.

[Oracle]

The perception of Knight, while harsh, is unfortunately true to this point in his career! I think Joe/Cheeks will give him a short leash to change that opinion, but he really has work to do!

Here's what they're saying about Knight:

"The Pistons' need for a long-term solution at point guard might as well have a glaring neon sign above it. If there is one thing Jose Calderon's presence proved last season, it's that Brandon Knight is infinitely more comfortable playing away from the ball than creating. He doesn't shoot well off the dribble, isn't comfortable passing out of pick-and-roll sets and is average at just about every other offensive duty necessary to be an NBA point guard. On the other hand, Knight is a usable starting 2 in a pinch, and should fill out a solid destiny as a third guard." - NBA Trade Rumors: Pistons Shouldn't Rule out Brandon Jennings Sign-and-Trade(For the record, as much as I think Rondo may have problems, Jennings has them even worse! He thinks he's a star but he isn't, and he's a AI type guy that just shoots a ton of shots and hogs the ball while not playing a lick of defense!)

Knight thinks he's in Kyrie Irving's class, but the difference, IMO, is night and day! Irving shoots very well off the dribble, gets into the teeth of the defense and is capable of finishing regularly.

Locally, we all talk about Monroe & Drummonds performances at the USA Basketball tryouts, but if you actually saw the game(I did), the real standouts were Irving & Anthony Davis, who is a really nice player! - Best USA Basketball Showcase highlight: Coast-to-coast ‘Brow, Wall’s putback, Barnes-on-Anderson or Kyrie’s everything? (Videos)

Knight's defense is the thing that should get him a last chance, but he's got to get the rest of his game together if he wants to keep the job!

He doesn't have to be a bigger star than Irving, but he needs to be SOLID in his position, and that means staying good defensively, improving his FT shooting, passing and assisting better.

Good Luck Knight, I'm rooting for you!

[cool breeze]

DX, There shouldn't be a set rotation that is set in stone... it should come down to matchups and who is playing well together.
Most of our points won't come from offensive sets... the boards will be crashed... offensive rebounds for putbacks and kickouts... the key to beating the Pistons will be to get enough rebounds (hard to do)... our bigs should be able to back down most players... then the slugfest is on.... it should be ugly beauty :^)

I couldn't agree more!

I don't expect to see the big 3 on the floor together all that many minutes a game anyway! They may start out that way, but as you said, matchups and who's playing well with whom will determine a lot!

What the big 3 really gives us is a LOT of flexibility to adapt and change, and if we really want to go big, we can do it with the best of them with the big 3, KCP & Ponytail!

IMO, this is going to make our matchups with Indiana once again special! We'll be the two biggest teams in the east with the best frontcourts!

In my book, that means WAR!!!

Oracle Joe Dumars has never addressed why he gifted Affalo to Denver. Why would he just give him away? Many Piston fans were perplexed with this huge blunder on Joe's part. He has admitted his mistake on Billups now. I think that Dumars could make a lot of money once he retires writing a book about what he was thinking when he drafted Rodney White, Darko, Maxiell, Stuckey and Daye and then go on to explain why is just gave away players who became much better NBA players then the guys he decided to protect from any competition for playing time. Maybe Joe would say I did it because I knew that Daye had a fragile personality and keeping Budinger would have made Daye have less confidence in himself. The other mystery for Joe to dissect would be why he decided to sign and draft players who everyone knew couldn't play effective defense. Joe took pride in playing defense. How could he respect players he signed who were horrible defenders? You would think that Joe would put guys who worked hard and played all out defense like Affalo at the top of his Keeper list.

Oracle Affalo would of course make this team so much better. We could be a real playoff team and not a fake playoff team. But we will be stuck with watching Bynum and Stuckey for another season and then maybe Joe Dumars will be fired and he can start his book. I dread another dull season watching Joe's guards at work with the exception of Knight, Middleton and maybe Pope.

[Oracle]

DX, There shouldn't be a set rotation that is set in stone... it should come down to matchups and who is playing well together.
Most of our points won't come from offensive sets... the boards will be crashed... offensive rebounds for putbacks and kickouts... the key to beating the Pistons will be to get enough rebounds (hard to do)... our bigs should be able to back down most players... then the slugfest is on.... it should be ugly beauty :^)

I couldn't agree more!

I don't expect to see the big 3 on the floor together all that many minutes a game anyway! They may start out that way, but as you said, matchups and who's playing well with whom will determine a lot!

What the big 3 really gives us is a LOT of flexibility to adapt and change, and if we really want to go big, we can do it with the best of them with the big 3, KCP & Ponytail!

IMO, this is going to make our matchups with Indiana once again special! We'll be the two biggest teams in the east with the best frontcourts!

In my book, that means WAR!!!

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