Props to Stones

[Oracle]

Stones, you got it right!

Vincent Goodwill @vgoodwill

2-year deal for Josh Harrellson with the #Pistons. Partially guaranteed and a team option for year 2
6:44 PM - 20 Aug 2013

[Sparma]

Relative to their performances last year, Jennings will improve more this year than will Drummond.

I say that although I think Drummond's ultimate ceiling is quite a bit higher than Jennings'. AD has some serious gaps in his game that will take a while to get to an adequate level (this next to his extraordinary skills). FTs of course, but also positioning.

I have a good feeling about Jennings. I think he can make a nice jump forward with the right mindset (which he manifested at his presser), rather than the quantum leap in skills that I see a BK needing. Cheeks could be just the right guy to gently guide him in the right direction, even though I don't see him as a stellar coach.

[Oracle]

Learning lessons is a good thing, so when I can bring some life lessons to good people like the ones on this board, I'm happy to do it!

Today's public service announcement comes from the world of politics.

What can we learn from Anthony Weiner?

1. Don’t stick your Weiner out there: It’s good to get noticed, but make sure you get noticed for the right things.

2. No one wants to see your Weiner: I know you think what you’ve got is awesome and it probably is, but people are more concerned with what you can do for them, not how awesome you are.
 

3. Flashing your Weiner once can be forgiven, doing it twice gets you in trouble: BTW, watch that once rule, your mileage may vary!

4. Your Weiner isn’t too big to fail: Even the best of them need help, so when offered a choice... take the blue pill with the big ass V on it!

That is all...

[Oracle]

• Optimism over the immediate future of Andre Drummond is getting a little out of control, but Tom Ziller of SB Nation has thankfully brought up two big questions in regard to the sustainability of Drummond’s stellar rookie performance as he heads into year two:

I’m skeptical of two pieces that made Drummond’s rookie season so spectacular, though: his elite rebounding and his lack of turnovers. Last season, Drummond snared 15.4 percent of his own team’s missed shots, one of the best marks in the league. Drummond should remain a strong rebounder throughout his career: he’s agile, long and tough with massive hands. But the level of offensive rebounding Drummond provided last season is typically not sustainable for players not named Reggie Evans, Dennis Rodman or Moses Malone. Evans is the only current player with multiple seasons above a 15 percent offensive rebound rate. Kenneth Faried is a good example of a player who was extraordinary on the offensive glass as a rookie (16.5 percent) only to dip down to very good in his second season (13 percent). That could happen to Drummond on both ends. (He was an outrageous defensive rebounder, too.)
The most unbelievable thing about Drummond as a rookie was his low turnover rate. He didn’t touch the ball as a threat to score a whole lot, but still. For a young, raw big man to have a turnover rate of 12 percent is totally unexpected and a huge boon. For comparison’s sake, Dwight Howard’s turnover rate has never been lower than 15 percent.

On top of those concerns are those of mere sample size. Drummond played just 60 games of his rookie season due to injury and generally played limited minutes when he did see the floor. That leaves a pretty meager sample from which to evaluate his NBA value in addition to the fact that we have yet to see teams care enough to tech against Drummond specifically.

Full Story here - Court Vision: Grounding the hype of Andre Drummond’s sophomore season

[Oracle]

Merc, IMO, here is my stab at what a perfect storm looks like.

1. Monroe shoots decent from midrange
2. Smith adapts to the SF/Part time PF  role
3. Drummond does his thing, but shoots 45% from the stripe
4. KCP delivers on his shooting promise, ditto for Pony Tail
5. Jennings delivers on assists, terrorizing in the paint, and great shot creation  in the crunch.

If we add to that, Cheeks coaching to a C+ grade, then that's as perfect as I can hope for.

If we get that, we're in to the 2nd round with a chance to win, and well on our way to developing the right chemistry and confidence to become the next beast in the east!

[Oracle]

Two years ago we were getting our heads handed to us twice nightly.  I'm talking about real azz wuppins.  I'm sure you remember the many times we trailed at the half by 20 pts or more.  

Last season, for the most part we remained competitive through 3+ quarters.  It was typically in the last six or seven minutes where our holes were exposed.  We usually died the death of a million little cuts.  A couple of turnovers, surrendered offensive rebounds,  a couple of missed free throws, several breakdowns of P&R defense, and another seemingly winable game slips away.  

Those lost opportunities fall squarely on the shoulders of our starters.  You can't blame backups who had been inserted with hopes of creating enough spark to swing the outcome.

Well, this season the shoulders carrying that responsibility are considerably wider and more stout. - To be sure
 
1- The cornerstone of our 4th qtr dominance will lie in an ability to control the backboard(s).  We will have four additional hands playing ABOVE the rim, and much bigger bodies attached to those hands.

2- The PG (whomever he is) has already demonstrated an ability to take better care of the ball in crunch time. - It should be Jennings, and his more experienced hands will be more solid in crunch time, however, I don't rule out Chauncey in crunch time if Jennings gets shaky!

3- Greater size and foot speed should serve to reduce (not eliminate) the quality of scoring options created against us off of the P&R.  - Agreed

4- Offensively we should find more opportunities available ABOVE the rim, a place we rarely struck from. - We struck from above the rim last season, but generally from the 2nd unit when Bynum had lob city playing on a loop, featuring Drummond!

5- Not quite sure which direction the free throw shooting will go. - It will go up! Knight had a terrible FT shooting percentage for a guard, Jennings greatly improves on that, and we know CB hoovers near 90% yearly.


What I do suspect is that a lot more 4th quarters will go our way.  The earlier in the season this happens the better our playoff chances are. - I suffer no doubt that we can make the playoffs, it's low hanging fruit IMO, in the east, where we have a lot of mentally unfocused teams.

[lemonpen]

Two years ago we were getting our heads handed to us twice nightly. I'm talking about real azz wuppins. I'm sure you remember the many times we trailed at the half by 20 pts or more.

Last season, for the most part we remained competitive through 3+ quarters. It was typically in the last six or seven minutes where our holes were exposed. We usually died the death of a million little cuts. A couple of turnovers, surrendered offensive rebounds, a couple of missed free throws, several breakdowns of P&R defense, and another seemingly winable game slips away.

Those lost opportunities fall squarely on the shoulders of our starters. You can't blame backups who had been inserted with hopes of creating enough spark to swing the outcome.

Well, this season the shoulders carrying that responsibility are considerably wider and more stout.

1- The cornerstone of our 4th qtr dominance will lie in an ability to control the backboard(s). We will have four additional hands playing ABOVE the rim, and much bigger bodies attached to those hands.

2- The PG (whomever he is) has already demonstrated an ability to take better care of the ball in crunch time.

3- Greater size and foot speed should serve to reduce (not eliminate) the quality of scoring options created against us off of the P&R.

4- Offensively we should find more opportunities available ABOVE the rim, a place we rarely struck from.

5- Not quite sure which direction the free throw shooting will go.


What I do suspect is that a lot more 4th quarters will go our way. The earlier in the season this happens the better our playoff chances are.

[deusXango]

Oracle, you're the greatest electronic alchemist of the day; that was hilarious!!  

[Oracle]

[Oracle]

I kinda like what Ainge has done... man just blow it up quickly during a good draft year... Joe wasted too much time with his "never rebuild just reload" concept.... we knew well b4 the Chauncey trade that this team was heading south.

Still trying to figure out if the BG deal was necessary... come draft day we'll have a better picture... what could this team be with a tier 1 PG?

I have serious concerns about Jennings defending the big PGs he's gonna face in the East.

Then there's that whole decision making thing that has been lacking from several of our players... gonna need a perfect storm here fellas.

I've already conceded that Jennings won't have a prayer guarding any of the good guards in the NBA, and judging by the way Knight used to own him, his smart career move is going to have to be the best assist man in the business. I think he will figure it out, but it's probably going to be slower than fans like!

I don't know about a perfect storm unless you're thinking ECF, we're well good enough to make the playoffs, and hopefully decision making improves with the record and experience.

Having said that, your concerns are more than valid! A lot of the professional team watchers, and I'm referring to the smarter ones, have similar concerns.

They can't come right out and say we will be good or bad, nobody knows how all of the pieces will fit.

In life, if you change one thing, you know what worked! If you change several things at one time, you have no clue what worked and what didn't!

That's wen you either go into either praise, blame, or deep debug mode... the old 3 things can happen and only one of them is good

[deusXango]

Watching Smith since coming into the league my observation has always been that anytime he played the PF position h was out of position.  I think the opportunity to play the SF position was in large part why he decide to sign here and hopeful Joe and Cheeks can both see the possibilities of having a front-court of Monroe, Drummond and Smith.

I'm not worried about Smith outside shooting anymore than I am with the majority of the team.  Many are so busy screaming about Smith hitting the long ball but he really isn't a bad Mid-range shooter and we all know he's getting the basket.   When talking about Smith's shooting you could have said the same thing about Prince over the years.  

I admit I've been one to scream for the trading of Monroe but not because we acquired Josh. If you recalled I advocated for a front-court of Drummond, Cousins and Smith and to a degree still feel that way though I can live with Monroe.  I even suggested trading Monroe for Bosh because a Bosh, Drummond and Smith front-court would make us the best defensive team in the league.  

One thing clear is that Smith would be getting the bare minimum of PT at the PF position, he's naturally a SF.

Wise to the rescue and not because you see things the way I do, but you've made sense, took a stand contrary to my thinking, and made damn good sense in doing so. I think that if Cousins immaturity could be controlled by Cheeks and Wallace, he would be an upgrade over Monroe; size and skill wise he's superior, but as things stand now, his attitude could poison the teams efforts to improve, in which case Monroe is the better player for us. You can keep Bosh. These are pros and Drummond, Monroe, Smith, and Mitchell will figure things out, with the help of Rasheed, and they'll make Jennings/Siva much more effective PG's. Personally, my excitement level is off the charts!!

I am puzzled by your responses as to the issue of where Smith should play on this Piston team. I saw Josh fighting for rebounds on defense and banging opposing players. I didn't see him playing defense outside the paint much. Did I miss something? What was Detroit's biggest weakness last season? Yes it was interior defense and lack of ability to rebound a missed shot by an opponent. If the Pistons want to win consistently then this has to change. My thought was that was the reason why Dumars wanted to sign Smith. I believe that it will be necessary to have Smith in the paint on defense or Detroit will have the same issues again. He is the best interior defender on the team. If he is defending a small forward, the opposing team will keep their small forward away from the basket so Josh will not be able to help. We need his shot blocking and rebounding skills along with his basic toughness around the basket on defense. And he would be a good pick and roll guy on offense playing power forward. If you guys are right then we will see Smith out on the perimeter a lot on both ends where he will be least effective. We shouldn't have to worry about Smith being upset about what position he is asked to play when considering how much money he will be earning with Detroit. Depending on the match ups, my thought would be to assign Smith to the best offensive big man on defense based on the fact that there really are not very many post up true centers in the league. Detroit might start out games early on with Drummond, Monroe and Smith on the front line but I can't see them all playing together for long periods of time. We know what Smith can do on defense. The unknown relating to defense is how good can Drummond be this season and has Monroe learned anything over the summer relating to defense.

Don, let Monroe's slow ass push the SF's out deeper on the perimeter, because now he doesn't have to get back to defend the paint; let Drummond and Smith control the defensive interior, because they're the most athletic, and fiercest rim protectors. Monroe and KCP can help hide Jennings on defense. Hell man, I don't know what Cheeks may do and I ain't going to pretend that I do.

[deusXango]

Don, I just have to kid you about your boy Shabazz Muhammad.

I'm glad Joe didn't stop and buy those bean pies... that dude reeks!

Ben McLemore says Shabazz Muhammad getting sent home from NBA’s rookie program was ‘very disappointing’

You got me Oracle. I wrote about Muhammad's personality issues but thought he had it together at draft time. I have already called up a buddy who knows a lot about this guy. He has a lot of offensive talent but is a weird dude for sure. Maybe being sent home will do something positive for the kid. I am still not counting him out. He has a NBA ready body and offensive skill set. I still like the idea of drafting Burke and then having the option of trading him for two first round picks. But I am now in KCP's camp hoping Joe made the right decision.

Don, I feel your pain, remember I was one of Royce White's biggest fans, and called for him to be a Piston constantly; I'm still scraping egg off my face.

[cool breeze]

Watching Smith since coming into the league my observation has always been that anytime he played the PF position h was out of position.  I think the opportunity to play the SF position was in large part why he decide to sign here and hopeful Joe and Cheeks can both see the possibilities of having a front-court of Monroe, Drummond and Smith.

I'm not worried about Smith outside shooting anymore than I am with the majority of the team.  Many are so busy screaming about Smith hitting the long ball but he really isn't a bad Mid-range shooter and we all know he's getting the basket.   When talking about Smith's shooting you could have said the same thing about Prince over the years.  

I admit I've been one to scream for the trading of Monroe but not because we acquired Josh. If you recalled I advocated for a front-court of Drummond, Cousins and Smith and to a degree still feel that way though I can live with Monroe.  I even suggested trading Monroe for Bosh because a Bosh, Drummond and Smith front-court would make us the best defensive team in the league.  

One thing clear is that Smith would be getting the bare minimum of PT at the PF position, he's naturally a SF.

Wise to the rescue and not because you see things the way I do, but you've made sense, took a stand contrary to my thinking, and made damn good sense in doing so. I think that if Cousins immaturity could be controlled by Cheeks and Wallace, he would be an upgrade over Monroe; size and skill wise he's superior, but as things stand now, his attitude could poison the teams efforts to improve, in which case Monroe is the better player for us. You can keep Bosh. These are pros and Drummond, Monroe, Smith, and Mitchell will figure things out, with the help of Rasheed, and they'll make Jennings/Siva much more effective PG's. Personally, my excitement level is off the charts!!

I am puzzled by your responses as to the issue of where Smith should play on this Piston team. I saw Josh fighting for rebounds on defense and banging opposing players. I didn't see him playing defense outside the paint much. Did I miss something? What was Detroit's biggest weakness last season? Yes it was interior defense and lack of ability to rebound a missed shot by an opponent. If the Pistons want to win consistently then this has to change. My thought was that was the reason why Dumars wanted to sign Smith. I believe that it will be necessary to have Smith in the paint on defense or Detroit will have the same issues again. He is the best interior defender on the team. If he is defending a small forward, the opposing team will keep their small forward away from the basket so Josh will not be able to help. We need his shot blocking and rebounding skills along with his basic toughness around the basket on defense. And he would be a good pick and roll guy on offense playing power forward. If you guys are right then we will see Smith out on the perimeter a lot on both ends where he will be least effective. We shouldn't have to worry about Smith being upset about what position he is asked to play when considering how much money he will be earning with Detroit. Depending on the match ups, my thought would be to assign Smith to the best offensive big man on defense based on the fact that there really are not very many post up true centers in the league. Detroit might start out games early on with Drummond, Monroe and Smith on the front line but I can't see them all playing together for long periods of time. We know what Smith can do on defense. The unknown relating to defense is how good can Drummond be this season and has Monroe learned anything over the summer relating to defense.

[cool breeze]

Don, I just have to kid you about your boy Shabazz Muhammad.

I'm glad Joe didn't stop and buy those bean pies... that dude reeks!

Ben McLemore says Shabazz Muhammad getting sent home from NBA’s rookie program was ‘very disappointing’

You got me Oracle. I wrote about Muhammad's personality issues but thought he had it together at draft time. I have already called up a buddy who knows a lot about this guy. He has a lot of offensive talent but is a weird dude for sure. Maybe being sent home will do something positive for the kid. I am still not counting him out. He has a NBA ready body and offensive skill set. I still like the idea of drafting Burke and then having the option of trading him for two first round picks. But I am now in KCP's camp hoping Joe made the right decision.

[merc]

I kinda like what Ainge has done... man just blow it up quickly during a good draft year... Joe wasted too much time with his "never rebuild just reload" concept.... we knew well b4 the Chauncey trade that this team was heading south.

Still trying to figure out if the BG deal was necessary... come draft day we'll have a better picture... what could this team be with a tier 1 PG?

I have serious concerns about Jennings defending the big PGs he's gonna face in the East.

Then there's that whole decision making thing that has been lacking from several of our players... gonna need a perfect storm here fellas.

[Oracle]

Don, I just have to kid you about your boy Shabazz Muhammad.

I'm glad Joe didn't stop and buy those bean pies... that dude reeks!

Ben McLemore says Shabazz Muhammad getting sent home from NBA’s rookie program was ‘very disappointing’

[Oracle]

"Oracle, I'd set aside all worries about outside shooting for now..." - DX

DX, isn't that what I said? 

On the Rondo situation, Pierce's remarks mean absolutely nothing!

It's all contingent on Rondo being healthy, which of course he made no comment on, but that's the ONLY thing that's in question!

Of course Rondo could lead that team of scrubs, hell, Stuckey could probably do it (for a few weeks)

[deusXango]

Paul Pierce has said that Rajon Rondo is ready to lead the Celtics, I say "good."  

[deusXango]

Oracle, I'd set aside all worries about outside shooting for now and concern myself with how this team gels together, and play with and for one another; team chemistry is something we've talked about on this forum, but it's been an alien practice with the teams we've had for the last 5-6 years. No matter how well we shoot, as a team, it won't matter a hill of beans if we've still got ball hogs with low basketball I.Q.'s on the floor.

My concern or question here is did we retain any of the old assistant like Hill.  Not only did we require revamping the roster the entire coaching staff needed to be gutted.

Wise, John Loyer is a holdover from the Lil' Larry regime, and I for one don't understand that; I'm in total agreement with you that the last coaching staff needed to be gutted!! WTF is Joe planting assistants on his coaches staff for anyway? Were there any "plants" on Larry Brown's staff? Did Chuck Daly have any on the bench with him? These were our championship coaches and they did quite well without the GM's constant monitoring, so if Cheeks is going to be his own man, Loyer shouldn't be on his staff; Rasheed makes more sense, as an assistant, than Loyer does. I want to see what Cheeks brings to the table as much as Smith, Jennings, Caldwell-Pope, Mitchell, Siva, and Datome; as far as the rest goes, let's say "I've seen that rodeo before," and let it go at that. I want to believe that Cheeks can now coach his ass off.

[WTF]

"I'm not worried about Smith outside shooting anymore than I am with the majority of the team." - Wise

I'm not worried too much about it now, but if we can't find a combination of consistent shooters from KCP, Pony Tail, or CB, and to a lesser degree Singler, I will be worried!

You can be successful without consistent shooting, but you can't get to, or win the big dance without good shooting(at least I can't remember a team that did)!

Since we aren't going to the big dance, it's not a pressing issue, but one we'll have to solve in the future!

I hear you Oracle but think about this for a second, we never had great outsider shooters from that SF position ever that I can remember even in our Championship years.  Maybe Mark being the exception but, for the most part Dantley, Corliss, Mark were all great in the post game and Tay was at best average as he often underachieved with his passive play.  Rodman was strictly defense. We did have one in Grant Hill Teal Years, and Tripuka all points no defense.
 
I agree outside shooting will have to come from somewhere, currently it needs to be CB, KCP, Jennings and to a degree CV and Singler.  A well Monroe has to step up his Mid-Range game.  
 
What I think is that we look at other SF's in the league sometimes and think we need one just like them.  IMO I think Smith overall is better than any one player we had at the SF position.  It's hard to argue against his stats offensively and he gives us the best of both worlds because he's good on both ends of the court.

[Oracle]

"I'm not worried about Smith outside shooting anymore than I am with the majority of the team." - Wise

I'm not worried too much about it now, but if we can't find a combination of consistent shooters from KCP, Pony Tail, or CB, and to a lesser degree Singler, I will be worried!

You can be successful without consistent shooting, but you can't get to, or win the big dance without good shooting(at least I can't remember a team that did)!

Since we aren't going to the big dance, it's not a pressing issue, but one we'll have to solve in the future!

[WTF]

"The Pistons haven’t officially announced this year’s coaching staff because new coach Maurice Cheeks and the organization still haven’t completed it."
This is a quote taken from an article about the Pistons only having two assistants under contract to date; Rasheed Wallace and John Loyer, both organizational hires, but no one that Cheeks wants is signed by Detroit. Strange. I'm wondering how the team is going to be run from the bench if our coach is neutered?

Good question DX, I'm guessing Cheeks will get a couple of his own guys. Joe has an ugly habit of hiring assistants or snitches to a coaches staff but I won't kill him for hiring Wallace or Loyer I don't think either fits the profile of snitch  

My concern or question here is did we retain any of the old assistant like Hill. Not only did we require revamping the roster the entire coaching staff needed to be gutted.

[deusXango]

"The Pistons haven’t officially announced this year’s coaching staff because new coach Maurice Cheeks and the organization still haven’t completed it."
This is a quote taken from an article about the Pistons only having two assistants under contract to date; Rasheed Wallace and John Loyer, both organizational hires, but no one that Cheeks wants is signed by Detroit. Strange. I'm wondering how the team is going to be run from the bench if our coach is neutered?

[deusXango]

Watching Smith since coming into the league my observation has always been that anytime he played the PF position h was out of position.  I think the opportunity to play the SF position was in large part why he decide to sign here and hopeful Joe and Cheeks can both see the possibilities of having a front-court of Monroe, Drummond and Smith.

I'm not worried about Smith outside shooting anymore than I am with the majority of the team.  Many are so busy screaming about Smith hitting the long ball but he really isn't a bad Mid-range shooter and we all know he's getting the basket.   When talking about Smith's shooting you could have said the same thing about Prince over the years.  

I admit I've been one to scream for the trading of Monroe but not because we acquired Josh. If you recalled I advocated for a front-court of Drummond, Cousins and Smith and to a degree still feel that way though I can live with Monroe.  I even suggested trading Monroe for Bosh because a Bosh, Drummond and Smith front-court would make us the best defensive team in the league.  

One thing clear is that Smith would be getting the bare minimum of PT at the PF position, he's naturally a SF.

Wise to the rescue and not because you see things the way I do, but you've made sense, took a stand contrary to my thinking, and made damn good sense in doing so. I think that if Cousins immaturity could be controlled by Cheeks and Wallace, he would be an upgrade over Monroe; size and skill wise he's superior, but as things stand now, his attitude could poison the teams efforts to improve, in which case Monroe is the better player for us. You can keep Bosh. These are pros and Drummond, Monroe, Smith, and Mitchell will figure things out, with the help of Rasheed, and they'll make Jennings/Siva much more effective PG's. Personally, my excitement level is off the charts!!

[WTF]

What makes Josh Smith a great PF and such a crappy SF? Would someone please explain this to me? I don't care what it looked like in Atlanta, what keeps Smith (besides his lack of a quality, high percentage outside shot) from being a qualified, top tier SF? If he was so in love with playing PF, and he knew he was slated to play SF in Detroit, why didn't he stay in ATL? Was it Joe's hypnotic spiel that convinced him to become a Piston? Until I hear something that makes real sense, he's simply one of our quality big men, and that in and of itself, doesn't necessitate trading any of the top 3-4 big men we have! It seems like as soon as Joe signed Smith, all sort of idiotic reasons for trading Monroe started to crop up; trade scenarios that have no basis in established need because, we haven't even gone to training camp, much less played whatever Cheeks rotation will be against NBA talent. Am I the only one who want to see what we have before we start scratching sh!t that don't itch?

Watching Smith since coming into the league my observation has always been that anytime he played the PF position h was out of position. I think the opportunity to play the SF position was in large part why he decide to sign here and hopeful Joe and Cheeks can both see the possibilities of having a front-court of Monroe, Drummond and Smith.

I'm not worried about Smith outside shooting anymore than I am with the majority of the team. Many are so busy screaming about Smith hitting the long ball but he really isn't a bad Mid-range shooter and we all know he's getting the basket. When talking about Smith's shooting you could have said the same thing about Prince over the years.

I admit I've been one to scream for the trading of Monroe but not because we acquired Josh. If you recalled I advocated for a front-court of Drummond, Cousins and Smith and to a degree still feel that way though I can live with Monroe. I even suggested trading Monroe for Bosh because a Bosh, Drummond and Smith front-court would make us the best defensive team in the league.

One thing clear is that Smith would be getting the bare minimum of PT at the PF position, he's naturally a SF.

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