Predictions

[merc]

What is 41 wins ... Alex

[merc]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1738073-grading-the-detroit-pistons-new-alternate-jersey

[Oracle]

Olajuwon describes Dwight Howard as “very raw”

[deusXango]

But a 2nd unit of Jennings, Singler, Drummond, Stuckey and Jerebco could be something special. All of those players have the speed to make the game fun to watch.  

Don, with all due respect, my suggestion for a 2nd unit would run these guys out of the gym; I don't see any complimentary chemistry being formed with this group. What I see is a lot of popular names, but games aren't won on popularity. First off, there are two of my starters and one major minute player in your second unit, so I'm curious about who's starting for you? More popular name players, but lacking effectiveness?

I can't remember who exactly it was, but there were a lot of posters screaming for the young players to get some run in our rebuild, when we had less talent, overall, to develop, but now that we have a Mitchell, a Siva, and a KCP, we want them to sit on the bench or rot in the D-League. Mitchell can develop into a real beast, and Siva is probably the most controlled and basketball intelligent PG that'll be on the roster 2-3 years from now (providing Billups stays healthy); KCP is our last lottery pick, and should be looked at as a core member; the possibility of a budding alpha player is right under our noses, but we have our doubts...we want to see a broken down Chauncey, or an out of position Singler, or worse still, Stuckey, a failed PG experiment who is far less talented as a SG, to take the starting SG spot ahead of KCP. Brilliant. The player that was acquired for his extremely good shooting ability, Datome, has been as close to being maligned, as an asset, as a professional league MVP as one can be, simply because of his contract. Villanueva doesn't play up to $8.5 million a year, but that doesn't mean Datome won't play like a $8.5 million player is supposed to!!

[FlyDog]

I'm good at this. I predict 37 wins.

[cool breeze]

Don, I wouldn't worry about Singler!

Singler, as DX stated would work well when we go to the Monroe/Smith frontcourt with him at the SF, which will be featured often.

Singler is not only skilled, but more athletic than some think.

My only concern is that Singler not play shooting guard! At SG he's not athletic enough to compete, and Don, I really did have to close my eyes last year in a few games as Singler got abused like he wasn't even on the court!

That happened rarely when he played SF, and nobody expects a rookie to handle the top SF's in the league anyway!

Singler is a player, that's the bottom line, and I think people forget that he got the name "Buckets" because he was so steady shooting! Sure his shot tailed off, but who doesn't have shooting slumps? That shot is likely to return!

Oracle I took a look at your starting 5 again. If Singler is not the starter then you might be correct unless Billups is the starting point guard or 2 guard. I know that Mr. Bigshot does not want to start the season on the bench. He wants to go out there on opening night under the lights to be announced as a starter. He is strong and tough so I expect Billups to be in top form when he enters training camp. The good news is that this season there should be more competition for jobs. I was looking forward to Knight and Middleton wearing the Piston uniform but if Pope really has it in him to earn a spot in the rotation if not a starting job, then I will be really pleased. I sure would prefer watching Pope make rookie mistakes than seeing Stuckey and Bynum again. Pope can easily win playing time by kicking ass and taking names on defense alone. We can expect a lot more consistent scoring from Smith and Monroe if they have worked on their mid range games. I suspect that Monroe will really have a great season this year considering the amount of money he will be able to make if that happens. Smith should be charged up playing for a new team. If Jennings does not impress Cheeks, you can bet that we will be hearing a lot of Rondo talk. This season sure will be a lot more fun for Piston fans in many ways. Anything can still happen relating to potential options Detroit might have as the season moves forward. And as much as I have bashed Stuckey, his ass is on the line this season as far as his NBA future is concerned. I don't like to say that because I prefer to believe that players will give an honest effort regardless of how they are positioned contract wise. But a 2nd unit of Jennings, Singler, Drummond, Stuckey and Jerebco could be something special. All of those players have the speed to make the game fun to watch.

[Oracle]

Dumpster Diving, and here is a list of the dumpster pickings!

Antawn Jamison, Forward – The 37-year-old veteran is coming out of the lost season with the Lakers where he played 21.5 minutes per game and showed that he can still shoot enough from the wings to score in double figures. After 15 years in the league, he’s still a reliable enough producer and ranks higher in efficiency rating than even two regular members of the starting lineup for the two-time champion Heat (Udonis Haslem and Shane Battier). The Leftovers will have to put points on the board somehow.

Lamar Odom, Forward – You’ve got to have faith that Odom hasn’t simply lost the spark and lost interest after his past two dismal years. Following the horrible flameout in Dallas, last season was supposed to be a shot at redemption as a key role player and solid influence in the locker room with the Clippers. Odom was particularly ineffective in the first-round playoff loss to Memphis. The birth certificate says he won’t turn 34 until the start of next season, but the odometer has racked up more miles than an old pickup truck. The Leftovers will keep believing that you don’t simply forget how to pass, rebound and do the little things and give Odom another chance.

Cole Aldrich, Center – After being taken with the 11th pick by New Orleans in 2010 and traded to OKC on draft night, Aldrich has never been able to establish himself as anything more than a space eater at the end of the bench for the Thunder, Rockets and most recently the Kings. Aldrich finally got onto the floor for 15 games in Sacramento at the end of last season and pulled down a respectable four rebounds in 11 minutes of playing time per night. He’s the epitome of the old adage: “You can’t teach height.” That’s why he’ll keep getting chances and the Leftovers are hoping that this is the one that will pay off.

Mikael Pietrus, Guard – We’re going to plug the swingman into our lineup in the backcourt and hope to ride that streaky outside shooting and penchant for playing in-your-face defense for production at both ends of the court. He played just 19 games last season with the Raptors before tendinitis in his knee forced him to the sidelines for good in the middle of March. But he’s too young (31), too athletic, too active, too disruptive on defense and potentially still too good not to have him on our side.

Sebastian Telfair, Guard – In a league where it has become increasingly critical to have an elite level point guard running the offense, you don’t simply find them in the discount bin. There’s a reason why the Clippers have gone from pretender to contender and his name is Chris Paul. From a free agent list that ranges from 35-year-old Jamaal Tinsley to 25-year-old Rodrigue Beaubois, we’ll split the difference and take the 28-year-old Telfair. He’s never lived up to the advance hype because though he’s quick and small, he can’t finish at the rim and has only recently become dependable as a mid-range shooter. His size hurts on defense, but he puts out the effort and when you’re a Leftover that’s good enough.

[Oracle]

Don, I wouldn't worry about Singler!

Singler, as DX stated would work well when we go to the Monroe/Smith frontcourt with him at the SF, which will be featured often.

Singler is not only skilled, but more athletic than some think.

My only concern is that Singler not play shooting guard! At SG he's not athletic enough to compete, and Don, I really did have to close my eyes last year in a few games as Singler got abused like he wasn't even on the court!

That happened rarely when he played SF, and nobody expects a rookie to handle the top SF's in the league anyway!

Singler is a player, that's the bottom line, and I think people forget that he got the name "Buckets" because he was so steady shooting! Sure his shot tailed off, but who doesn't have shooting slumps? That shot is likely to return!

[Oracle]

There is a significant difference between making predictions and discussing tactics and actually playing the coach/GM!

I think I'm the voice of reason that we really don't know who should be in what position this season.  In the past it has been too predictable, but we have:

    4 rookies
    some guys that have been shelved for much of last season
    3 new players from last season
    we don't know how things will gel
    Oh, and a new coach

No one can sit there and tell me what should be done after watching a few summer league games, or on YouTube, added to what they witnessed last year under a different coach.  It just isn't even fair!

If you guys just like throwing things out there to see if you guess right so you can have bragging points, that is fine.  I understand.  We are (mostly) guys who like to play around that way.  If you guys get all defensive of why your thought or lineup is better than others then you seriously need to grow up.  

Now, on to a more playful question "how many games will the Stones win this year?"

My answer = 42 with a slow start and will hit a winning streak along the way just before or after the all-star break. 

Look, my name is Oracle, but you don't need a crystal ball of be channeling Nostradamus to peek this starting lineup!

I'm not guessing, I'm telling you that 4 out of 5 of the starters are set in stone(no stones pun intended, lol)!

Only injury or an asteroid strike could upset that starting lineup, and the only position we should be discussing is who starts at SG!

I would be shocked if people disagree about this, and if they do, what the rational would be. Not some theory, but the practical setting of the starting lineup.

BTW, let's hold off on making final predictions of wins for two reasons(although I like your preliminary prediction).
1. IMO, we need to be closer into the season, and
2. Somebody needs to setup a google spreadsheet so that we can record everyones prediction for review at season end.

[Go Stones!]

Two words: Fab Melo

Why did Ainge give up on this guy? Their first round pick last year? Are the Cs tanking or did he just give up on this guy sooner than later?

Or, as it was mentioned somewhere, does this allow for them to be under the tax line? I would hate to see a trade for a 1st rounder be about falling under the tax line... Tells me they picked wrong and/or their scounting SUCKS!

[WTF]

When was Singler embarrassed while playing defense at either shooting guard or small forward? He was the only guy who could defend those positions well and that is why he became the starter. - cool breeze

No Don Singler became a starter because Stuckey convinced Frank to make that change and it had nothing to do with a lack of defensive effort on Stuckey's part. It was Stuckey thinking he'll be better coming in with the second unit and had everything to do with Stuckey trying to find his offense.

Now Singler was regularly abused trying to defend the SG position last season and the biggest blessing to Singler was Prince getting traded were he was less abused at the SF position but abused none the less. I really don't see where you keep coming up with this defensive greatness you keep finding in Singler's game  

Singler to his credit didn't back down and give up, but that doesn't make him a good defender.

[Go Stones!]

There is a significant difference between making predictions and discussing tactics and actually playing the coach/GM!

I think I'm the voice of reason that we really don't know who should be in what position this season. In the past it has been too predictable, but we have:

4 rookies
some guys that have been shelved for much of last season
3 new players from last season
we don't know how things will gel
Oh, and a new coach

No one can sit there and tell me what should be done after watching a few summer league games, or on YouTube, added to what they witnessed last year under a different coach. It just isn't even fair!

If you guys just like throwing things out there to see if you guess right so you can have bragging points, that is fine. I understand. We are (mostly) guys who like to play around that way. If you guys get all defensive of why your thought or lineup is better than others then you seriously need to grow up.

Now, on to a more playful question "how many games will the Stones win this year?"

My answer = 42 with a slow start and will hit a winning streak along the way just before or after the all-star break. 

[cool breeze]

Smith, Monroe are starters. I would like to believe Drummond has enough experience to be a starter but that is still an unknown. There is no way that anyone and determine who will win the rest of the starting positions. There are only two players who anyone can say has earned a starting job right now. You can look into your crystal ball all you want to but until the players do battle against each other, it is all just bluster.

I think the starting lineup we've proposed, with the exception of KCP, is the ONLY logical lineup for this team if the coaching staff has any desire to start developing team chemistry for the future!

IMO, you can quibble about KCP, although IMO, he's the only logical one to start there unless Chauncey wants to come off of his hatred for the SG position, but at 37, it's just a waste.

I would consider Singler, but the debacle of having him embarrassed again like last year at the SG position is something I don't want to see. IMO, Singler is almost a lock as the backup SF! Nobody else has the balance of skills that he has and I don't expect that Mitchell will be ready for a year at least!

So considering everything, I think that lineup proposed by DX is by far the most logical.

When was Singler embarrassed while playing defense at either shooting guard or small forward? He was the only guy who could defend those positions well and that is why he became the starter. He was better than the other guys. It wasn't even close. Like I said before, a coach installs a defense based on a team orientated style not street ball. You can't win with street ball type of thinking. Singler has the mental thing down. He knows how to react in all situations and especially when he sees that a teammate needs help. You never get any credit for that but unless you have players who buy into actually doing some thinking on defense, there is no chance to win unless your opponent screws up. KCP is now the golden child and fans believe he can do it all before before he goes up against real NBA players who have been in the league for a long time. I don't care who you are, it takes time to get to know the opponent you will be guarding and to adjust to the speed of the game. KCP was on a losing team in college. He was able to do a lot of things to help him with his confidence. The real test is when you have your chance but have to play within the limits set for you by the coach as to what you are allowed to do. For instance, Singler played the entire rookie season last year starting every game but never had one play designed for him on offense. It is difficult to gain any confidence on offense when that happens. I like Singler's size and his brain. So many of you are fighting real hard to not give the guy a chance. I find that strange. Some even believe Stuckey is the starting 2 guard even though he has been out of favor of three previous coaching staffs. Yes Stuckey is better than Singler for sure so don't even bother to wait and see who actually plays better in training camp. Everyone needs to give both Drummond and KCP a break and let them gradually figure out how to become effective players without destroying team chemistry which happens when the team loses games.

This is what I have seen from previous seasons regarding players that have played for Detroit.
1. Charlie V plays well on offense hitting difficult shots when he first gets his chance to play. Then after about 10 games, we see a different Charlie. We see a lazy Charlie who instead of getting better and playing harder, the opposite happens. You can write out Charlie's stats as much as you want to but it means nothing because Charlie fails to get his ass down the court fast enough to stop opponents on defense. He almost walks his way past the half court line on offense and stands out beyond the 3 point line. Being that he is always playing outside the 3 point line, Charlie should be the first player back on defense. But that never happens.
2. I can't recall any player who ever played for the Pistons who has been given so many chances to make a home in Detroit. Does he really want to? He was not motivated last season but he said last summer that he was going to show Brandon Knight how to practice over the summer. Knight improved but Stuckey's skills declined even more or his attitude declined. Every summer Stuckey is somehow this secret weapon who will turn himself into superman. No guys like Labron James work their butts off in the summer to improve even at his level. Stuckey has never been consistent as a player. Why would any coach trust him if they have studied the history of his play????
3. Bynum has been benched for long periods of time. Then something happens and he plays and for the first 3 games, Bynum is scoring a lot of points. But what fans are not looking at is what is happening to the players who play when Bynum is in the game. The offense is centered around Bynum. He is not like the Microwave who got others involved as well as being a scoring machine off the bench. And Bynum makes the defense really weak. There are 3 guards who I am worried about destroying the chances of winning games this season and those players are Bynum, Stuckey and Jennings. Who will improve their defense enough so the opposing teams will not target them during crunch time? Can Billups hold his own this season. Or for that matter, KCP might step up by the end of the season like others hope he will do because for sure he can play better defense than any of those three player that I mentioned. For the first half of the season, I prefer to see Singler if he performs well in training camp. I would like to see Billups start at point guard and Singler at the 2. This gives Detroit a solid defensive team with the only weak link being Monroe. This is a tough lineup and other teams will have a difficult time scoring points. Singler can limit scoring by opponents from the outside. He knows how to rotate and gets out quick. This year he will not have to sag as much to help if Drummond and Smith can work well together. You cannot win without a stable defense. Gradually KCP could take more of Singler's minutes after he is able to watch from the sidelines how Singler rotates and adjusts to situations. He will never learn anything if he watches Stuckey and Bynum who are 2 guards. This will be an interesting training camp where the coach's philosophy will determine a lot of things. Will we see a mindless street ball type of team this season who will look a lot like the Wizzards? Or will the Pistons finally become a tough minded smart team who will bond together to fight for everything on the defensive end especially during crunch time when you get burned by your mistakes? Some stuff I want to happen should happen because Billups and Rasheed are a part of this team now. If they can light a fire under the underachievers then more power to them. May the best players hold the torch.

[deusXango]

Andre Drummond is our starter and defensive tone setter, but the majority of his minutes will be played with the 2nd unit, where there is no one on the team quite as effective, in the middle; his presence will also allow for the development of some young studs this year, that'll pay off in the future.

Tony Mitchell has the raw aggressive "get in your ass" style of play that the sooner it's introduced to the NBA, the better for us; if this is about youth, when will it really be about youth development? He's young, raw, athletic, aggressive, and the best fit to pair with Drummond, IMHO. He should be here for years to come whereas the more highly paid PF's (who don't play as high a quality game as Mitchell) won't. He's playing behind Monroe and Smith!!

Luigi Datome should get the 2nd unit minutes at SF, because Kyle Singler will play the major minutes with the starting Monroe and Smith (replacing Drummond after the first 5-6 minutes), and will be the floor spreading long range shooter we're not supposed to have. Once the doubters actually see this guy play they'll realize that there is no one with the combination of size, speed, intelligence, and shooting ability on the team; the Italian League is not a recreation league and this is their most recent MVP!!

Chauncey Billups is needed to supply calm control, intelligence, defense, and reliable shooting (unsuccessful bullying to the basket is over rated) from the SG spot, which there is no one on the bench better to man; the question will be "is this about Chauncey's ego or is this about the team's success?" For the next two years, Siva will benefit more from playing alongside Billups, than any other PG on the team, Jennings included. Siva is the ideal backup.

Peyton Siva is the PG in training for the future backup on this team, no matter who the starter is, and has begun demonstrating the winning attitude, and skillset that fits perfectly in the pro game. The knock on him is that he doesn't shoot much, but haven't we had enough of the shot happy PG's who shielded us from enjoying team basketball being played?

The frustrated, unemployed "bean counters" that worry about Tom Gores money, want to trade Monroe or Smith because of the cost of maintaining our Big 3 (all are feared to receive max deals, which Smith didn't, as first speculated on), but this is a high quality inexpensive rotation, so what's the problem? Fans have more or less agreed that resigning Bynum was a mistake, Stuckey doesn't bring what Chauncey does to a team effort, and because CV was Joe's error in judgment, we shouldn't have to suffer through watching him play, on his last year with the team; Jerebko, like Stuckey, deserves a fresh start and change of scenery, but these players have been around just long enough to establish a fan base of their own, which is more important to some fans than being behind the team 100%. The big picture shows that the resources they represent can put us squarely back into contention by having the CAP space next year, and moving back into the first round of the 2014 draft. This is mid-August and training camp is a long way off, so my thoughts are just as valid as any.

[WTF]

@Don - I'm not co-signing ANY comparisons of these crap players with the bad boys in any way! I'm agreeing with Wise ONLY on the principle that everybody doesn't need to be a two way player, which is the point of his post, not comparison, IMO!

That by no means implies that they can be completely useless on one end, just that they don't need to excel in anything except their special skill set! For Stuckey it's Bully Guard & CV it's 3 pointers.
 
@DX - Dx, I wasn't as high as you are on KCP initially, but he's winning me over when he's getting all of these rave reviews by guys that I know, have a firm grip on their basketball knowledge!

I think this will be the straw that breaks Stuckey's back, and Joe may be looking at this as the green light he needs to up the talks to trade Stuckey!

That's correct I wasn't making any comparison as it relates to talent, just simply saying that everyone does something different that can be valuable to the team. I wrote that post in part because Don IMO seem to think everyone needs to be a defensive genius and that was never the case with the Pistons Teams that won Championships. Corliss wasn't a great defender but he represented 14 points off the bench, Salley wasn't an offensive demon but he was a valuable back up to an starter Rick that was no offensive scoring demon either.

Recalling last season Charlie played 15 minutes a game and averaged almost 2 steals and 1 block a game with 8 points and 4 rebounds. Like it or not these are great stats for a backup PF playing 15 minutes each night.

[Oracle]

"There has to be a new set of rules for players coming into the league where they must play at least 2 years of college basketball or more before they qualify to play in the NBA. Players will need that amount of time regardless of how talented they may be rated to make up for the lack of coaching and practice they experience as kids growing up." - Don

Don, while I think that's a good idea, this is still a free country, and these guys are basically adults free to make decisions about their futures, and forcing artificial limits on them isn't a good idea.
 
IMO, the NBA needs to step up the training that they give young players! They currently use the development league to give players more playing time!

I think that's very inefficient and wasteful. In addition to PT, the players need "Classroom Time" with coaches to learn the fundamentals of whatever position they play! NOT like they do in the NBA, where basically nothing happens, but that class time should be at least half of the time spent down there, sort of a high intensity clinic.

That way you not only get a player that has had competitive PT, but a smarter player as well that has focused on how to defend their position as well as the other basics that they may have missed in college.

It'll never happen, but that's my wish!

[Oracle]

Smith, Monroe are starters. I would like to believe Drummond has enough experience to be a starter but that is still an unknown. There is no way that anyone and determine who will win the rest of the starting positions. There are only two players who anyone can say has earned a starting job right now. You can look into your crystal ball all you want to but until the players do battle against each other, it is all just bluster.

I think the starting lineup we've proposed, with the exception of KCP, is the ONLY logical lineup for this team if the coaching staff has any desire to start developing team chemistry for the future!

IMO, you can quibble about KCP, although IMO, he's the only logical one to start there unless Chauncey wants to come off of his hatred for the SG position, but at 37, it's just a waste.

I would consider Singler, but the debacle of having him embarrassed again like last year at the SG position is something I don't want to see. IMO, Singler is almost a lock as the backup SF! Nobody else has the balance of skills that he has and I don't expect that Mitchell will be ready for a year at least!

So considering everything, I think that lineup proposed by DX is by far the most logical.

[cool breeze]

AAU basketball and the academy system is gradually undermining the quality of players. Charles Barkley and all the other retired great players believe this is true. One fact that many of you basketball fans don't know is that AAU players don't practice. How many of you grew up as kids going to high school basketball games and thinking it was the greatest show on earth. You dreamed of the day that you could step on the floor when they turned off the lights and announced the starting lineup. You grew up with the same kids that you ended up playing with and suffering though long hours of practice and the highs and lows. There was a history you could identify with as a kid. You respected your coach who was a real teacher as well. Sometimes the coach was your father more so than your real father. A statement made by Brandon Jennings after he was traded to Detroit made me stop in my tracks. He said that he wanted to go back to his AAU roots and forget the way he played for the Bucks. The problem with that statement is that players learn zip playing AAU ball now days. Many of the coaches have no business coaching those young kids because they are not qualified. Shoe companies have too much influence in AAU. There is no governing body out there to set the proper rules of conduct with the adults who are sucking the life blood out of those kids who have been identified as stars before they play a game. When I speak about the lack of many of the current Piston players ability to grasp the principles of basic team defense, it is easy to understand why they are so unprepared to play the game the right way. This Piston team has too many players who have not learned the right way to practice and they have never had the proper coaching at any level before coming to the NBA. How many current Piston players do not have the background it takes to ever become a good teammate and have the discipline to fight within yourself to improve as a player throughout your career? Every GM in the NBA needs to be looking that the way things are going. When we think of the future we want to believe that young players will be better educated in all areas of the game and the game will be even more fun to watch. But it is going the opposite way sports fans. There has to be a new set of rules for players coming into the league where they must play at least 2 years of college basketball or more before they qualify to play in the NBA. Players will need that amount of time regardless of how talented they may be rated to make up for the lack of coaching and practice they experience as kids growing up.

[cool breeze]

Smith, Monroe are starters. I would like to believe Drummond has enough experience to be a starter but that is still an unknown. There is no way that anyone and determine who will win the rest of the starting positions. There are only two players who anyone can say has earned a starting job right now. You can look into your crystal ball all you want to but until the players do battle against each other, it is all just bluster.

[Oracle]

Andre Drummond is without a doubt the best center on this team, regardless of the so-called flaws in his offensive game; he does what a strong defensive center should do, get in the oppositions ass early and make a defensive statement!

Greg Monroe, the much maligned, albeit, unseen PF, is the best double/double interior player on the team, and one of the very best in the NBA; so what if he's not as good a defender as you'd want, he's bookended by two of the best, most athletic, defenders in the league.

Josh Smith is light years ahead of anything Tayshaun Prince was bringing to the frontline, defense and rebounding wise, and the ridiculous conjecture about is he a SF or PF should be put to rest, along with rehashing his ill-advised shot attempts; let's see what Cheeks can impart on him.

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, the lone rookie in the lineup, should be a breath of fresh air and fan favorite in no time. He's a scorer who plays "bulldog" defense, uses his head on the floor, and is a high flying finisher, at the rim. He's got excitement written all over him, and that's what we pay for.

Brandon Jennings is the PG we've been without, since Chauncey was traded away, for no good reason and like Chauncey, has a chip on his shoulder to prove the doubters wrong. I'm a supporter for him to re-define his game and direct this starting unit to unexpected success.

Win, lose, or draw, this is the starting 5 I'd have no trouble cheering for; I find them to be a relief over what's been given to us to pull for over the last half dozen years, and they represent Joe Dumars major efforts to change the face of the team and get us into the playoffs this year. So, f*ck ESPN and the 200 lunatics who can't see us making the playoffs, this one fan sees us in the 5 or 6 spot.

GO PISTONS!!!    

This is a winning starting 5, and I also agree with you about ESPN!

Fu#k ESPN, their dog, and the horse they rode in on!

Here are my reasons. and if I'm a homer, so be it!

1. We FINALLY have a SF that won't back down from LeBron James, and won't be pushed around!

2. We really do have potentially the best defensive center in the game, and if he's not the best, he's in the top 3.

3. Monroe is a top 10 PF, but if he learns how to shoot, he's top 5!

4. Jennings is going to ignite this team with the pick and roll, and between his passing and Monroe's, this team is going to be hell to defend once the chemistry is set! More importantly, Jennings isn't shy about taking the big shot and he has the moves to create that shot! Even Chauncey didn't have that! The last guard(that I remember) we had capable of creating his own shot was Zeke, and while Jennings is no Zeke, he's not chopped liver either!

5. KCP will take a couple of years to get it all together, but once he does, he projects to being a game changer from the SG position if he's anywhere near the player he was in college. He was an alpha player, but on a team that didn't win much(unlike Afflalo), so we do have to be careful about projections, but I'm encouraged!

I like this lineup... a LOT!!!

[deusXango]

Andre Drummond is without a doubt the best center on this team, regardless of the so-called flaws in his offensive game; he does what a strong defensive center should do, get in the oppositions ass early and make a defensive statement!

Greg Monroe, the much maligned, albeit, unseen PF, is the best double/double interior player on the team, and one of the very best in the NBA; so what if he's not as good a defender as you'd want, he's bookended by two of the best, most athletic, defenders in the league.

Josh Smith is light years ahead of anything Tayshaun Prince was bringing to the frontline, defense and rebounding wise, and the ridiculous conjecture about is he a SF or PF should be put to rest, along with rehashing his ill-advised shot attempts; let's see what Cheeks can impart on him.

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, the lone rookie in the lineup, should be a breath of fresh air and fan favorite in no time. He's a scorer who plays "bulldog" defense, uses his head on the floor, and is a high flying finisher, at the rim. He's got excitement written all over him, and that's what we pay for.

Brandon Jennings is the PG we've been without, since Chauncey was traded away, for no good reason and like Chauncey, has a chip on his shoulder to prove the doubters wrong. I'm a supporter for him to re-define his game and direct this starting unit to unexpected success.

Win, lose, or draw, this is the starting 5 I'd have no trouble cheering for; I find them to be a relief over what's been given to us to pull for over the last half dozen years, and they represent Joe Dumars major efforts to change the face of the team and get us into the playoffs this year. So, f*ck ESPN and the 200 lunatics who can't see us making the playoffs, this one fan sees us in the 5 or 6 spot.

GO PISTONS!!!

[Oracle]

@Don - I'm not co-signing ANY comparisons of these crap players with the bad boys in any way! I'm agreeing with Wise ONLY on the principle that everybody doesn't need to be a two way player, which is the point of his post, not comparison, IMO!

That by no means implies that they can be completely useless on one end, just that they don't need to excel in anything except their special skill set! For Stuckey it's Bully Guard & CV it's 3 pointers.
 
@DX - Dx, I wasn't as high as you are on KCP initially, but he's winning me over when he's getting all of these rave reviews by guys that I know, have a firm grip on their basketball knowledge!

I think this will be the straw that breaks Stuckey's back, and Joe may be looking at this as the green light he needs to up the talks to trade Stuckey!

[cool breeze]

There are just too many NBA teams active and not enough talent to go around. How many teams in the league including Detroit have been able to cheer for at least one great player if they decide to attend a game. I have watched film of the games when Dave Bing played for the Pistons. His teams were not very good. However, if a Piston fan decided to go out into the cold and pay money to watch pro basketball in Detroit in those days they would be assured that Dave Bing would amaze them. He did it almost every home game. He was incredible. Over the past 4 seasons, I haven't seen one player on this Piston team stand out. Most of the players really shouldn't be in the league. However, being that there is a shortage of quality players, GMs are forced to sign players who could care less about improving or giving an honest effort on the court even for home games. In the old days, all players played hard for home games. Not any more especially this group of Pistons that Joe Dumars signed. There is no way that many of Joe's crew would be allowed to play for more than one season in past times. The players from the old era would have not tolerated those guys and would have demanded to be traded if management brought them back. But not in today's NBA. We have our leader, Joe Dumars hanging on to so much dead weight and re signing players who have never been able to compete with any of the respectable teams in the league. Fans are excited about what Bynum, Stuckey and Charlie V might do this year. This is like reading a George Orwell novel. You are used to it and accept it and actually believe those players have taken a secret potion this summer and things will be different. And you buy in to the nonsense put out there by management and the local newspapers. No I see that Dumars has resigned Bynum after I have watched how almost every opposing NBA players has abused him when he plays defense. Opposing broadcasters explain the Pistons weak areas over the past 4 years and those areas are how bad the effort is by the players and how the guards refuse to embrace playing real defense. And year after year we see Joe Dumars returning those same guards as if he thinks we are all idiots. Some teams need to fold and I believe it has to be at least 3 to 4 teams before we will see quality games again. And we need a GM who doesn't give away defensive players like Affalo for nothing and keeps returning the weak sisters.

[deusXango]

Pistons No. 1 pick’s quick learning curve makes him a starting candidate
The game is moving to a lot of specialists, especially when subbing, so it's hard to expect everyone to be great on both ends, but you can demand consistency of effort if not results!
EDIT: Obviously what Don keeps stressing... DEFENSE, really made the difference for KCP, and is what may get him into the starting lineup!

Oracle, this is why I keep calling for Stuckey's removal from the team; I believe that KCP will be better on both ends of the floor, coming in, than any guard we've drafted in over a decade! Stuckey needs a new start, someplace else, where his game can develop before it's too late, and KCP needs to start developing his game on the professional level which, it's been stated, takes about 2 years at most to reach his peak. Remember how long it took Afflalo to blossom once he got a fair chance to play? I think Cheeks knows how rare a two-way player is and see it in this young man. I'm so high on this player that it's a shame, because of the overall excitement I see him bringing to the game, once he becomes comfortable; like a young MJ coming into the league, he is full of energy that needs channeling, but once channeled, lookout!! HE'S OUR PLAYER, and he brings a much needed skillset! Game by game he'll make Jennings better, playing in the backcourt with him, than a player who needs the ball in their hands to be effective; an investment has been made in a gamble that Jennings can and will re-define his game, I think he should be given every resource available to do that. Is the first 10 games, coming out the gate, too much to ask for starting Jennings and KCP with our Big 3 frontline, for fans to see exactly how effective they are, instead of relying on Joe's talking heads to report to us what's taking place in the unseen practices? I'm keeping in mind that KCP is in the same company and class as Oladipo and McLemore, two players who'll surely get ample opportunity from their drafting franchises to play, I hope the Pistons put as much value on KCP!!

[cool breeze]

The Madness IMO comes with the expectations of every single player on the team is expected to be able to deliver on both ends. Truth is we never boasted a team of perfectionists our Championship teams didn't even boast a player that was doing it on both end of the court at every single position.

Look at Dennis and Mark, the complete opposite of players but both very necessary.  Mark couldn't defend if his life depended on it, and Dennis wasn't an offensive scoring machine but we couldn't do it with out them. What we had were highly serviceable role player on both our Championship teams.  

When I look at Drummond I say he could be everything that Big Ben was but better, people are quick to point out Drummonds lack of offensive skills but offensively he's already more talented than Big Ben ever was.  When I hear people being critical of Josh outside shooting at either SF or PF position all I can say is that neither Prince or Wallace were shooting lights out forget that Josh is boasting better scoring and rebound than both.

Is Stuckey any less valuable than the likes of Hunter or James? Is Charlie all that different from Corliss or Salley?

I find myself in 100% agreement with Wise on this one!

Lemon made some great points, but Wise is speaking at the top level, all other things being equal, his theory is exactly the one I have about players!

When a player does it all, they're likely called LeBron James or some other super star, and even they have flaws!

Stuckey has a well defined skill that we will miss when he's gone, but he does need to go for his own career development! CV just plain needs to go, but while he's here, we don't need him to defend like Drummond, we just need to use him when we need 3 point shooting, and if he isn't hitting, sit his ass down!

If Drummond does nothing other than defend, block and steal, at least we deny the other team from scoring while we figure out how to score ourselves!

The question marks on this team sit squarely on the offensive end... will we be able to score enough to win consistently!

Defensively, this team is stacked when Drummond and Smith are on the floor! Teams will struggle unless their shooting lights out on the perimeter(then we'll likely miss Knight a bit).

The game is moving to a lot of specialists, especially when subbing, so it's hard to expect everyone to be great on both ends, but you can demand consistency of effort if not results!

Oracle I respectfully disagree with some of the comparisons made.

First off, John Salley and Corless Williamson would be very upset if they read this nonsense that there is not much difference between them as players and Charlie V. Are you guys crazy? What is going on? If any of you have purchased PASS and watch the opposing team broadcast with non Piston commentators, then you will get a true picture of what real basketball people think of Charlie V. He has been laughed at so many times over the past three years it is not funny. They all have pointed out how lazy he is on defense and offense. And his lack of basketball IQ is incredible. And no team in the NBA wants this guy at any price. He kills team chemistry. But Corless and John S. played on championship teams. Both of those players played really hard and ran the court much faster and were both factors in the team's overall success. In Williamson's situation much was not in his control but he was still an effective player. Corless entered training camp one season and was told that he was going to be a key power forward for the Pistons. This was another Maxiell situation that didn't work. Larry Brown didn't like Memo's attitude for some reason and decided to punish him or maybe decided that he would punish Piston management and get them to fire him so he could collect his contract money and get his hip replacement surgery on their dime. Brown is a slippery guy and a guy the deceased Piston owner could not trust to do the right thing. It was all about what was best for Larry Brown until the team under the leadership of Billups took Brown down after he blew the 5th playoff game against the Nets by insisting to play Darvin Ham and Corliss as his big men in overtime after Billups had made a half court shot to tie the game at the buzzer in regulation. Detroit had two effective big men sitting on the bench when Billups told Brown off after the game saying that he had nobody to pass the basketball to. I talked to Richard Jefferson that summer and he informed that the entire Piston team was so upset with Brown that they didn't want him to sit on the bench the following game at the Nets home court. The entire Nets team couldn't believe that Brown had handed them the game as all of their big men had fouled out in regulation. And I keep reading some comments by posters as to how great a coach Larry Brown was and how he molded Billups into the player he became. Billups did it all on his own and had a difficult time co existing with Brown as many players did at the time. But back to the comparison here, how can you say that Williamson and Salley brought the same thing to the Piston team that Charlie has Oracle. This statement is dead wrong.

You said that Stuckey brings something special to the team and we don't need him to be a great defender because all we need from him is his 3 point shooting. No Oracle we need great defense played by anyone who gets on the floor for Detroit. This team is not very talented. They need to bring it on defense and they haven't done it for 4 years. And Stuckey's biggest weakness other than his lack of concentration at key moments on defense is his lack of ability to hit 3 point shots. He is a driver. That is what he brings. Regarding Stuckey I agree that Stuckey is about as valuable as Hunter was to the Pistons and the reason why Detroit could not manage to win at least 2 more championships with the Billups team was the fact that Joe Dumars decided that he didn't need a effective combo guard and decided to give contracts to Hunter who didn't play much of the two seasons until playoff time because of injuries. Hunter was at the end of his career and this is all on Dumars as to why Detroit didn't get a good quality back up combo guard. The year they won, James was a real key to their success. Why do I say that Oracle? Because James was brought in with the trade for Rasheed and his specialty was playing A caliber defense. He could shut down hot opponents and he was effective on offense as well. The day Detroit decided not to sign James after beating LA, I got sick to my stomach. Again, you cannot win much of anything in the playoffs if your guards cannot play defense.

Regarding Dennis and Mark, you make the mistake that those two players were freak athletes. Mark was a great scorer under pressure if you look at his entire career. Thomas was his friend. Zeke believed that Mark would add to the chemistry. Rodman was an incredible player. He chose not to score. That was the statement made by Steve Kerr as few weeks ago during an interview on NBATV. Barkley, Shaq, Kerr, Steve Smith, Reggie Miller, Chris Webber all said the same thing. They said that Worm impacted the game as much as any other guy who ever played. Those star players know the truth. You don't win without crazy athletic defensive minded players on your team. That show I watched included film of Rodman at his best as a Piston and with the Bulls. What many of you Piston fans are ignoring is the truth that all of our current Piston players are not in the class of any of those players who won championships for Detroit in the past. It is an insult to throw their names out there in the same breath as guys like Charlie V, Stuckey or any of the current group of Pistons. These players have not won anything and what is worse is the fact that as a group they have no idea how to win yet. There is nothing wrong with that when thinking of the young guys on the team who do have potential. We now have Billups who will demand more from these guys. But unless players like Bynum, Stuckey, Charlie V, Monroe and Jennings become good defenders almost overnight which has never happened before, then our Pistons might look much like they did last season. The big question is can Drummond stay on the court very long without getting into foul trouble. If Drummond can mature before the end of the season I will be really happy even if Detroit misses the playoffs.

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