Wise & Stones: Knight

[Oracle]

I think you guys are channeling what you want to happen, which if fine and legitimate, just say it!

IMO, any thoughts you may have around Knight & a big as attractive, works better with Stuckey & a big!

Stuckey has real value that can bring back more and better players than Knight.

I think it's dumb to trade Knight, but I'll trade anybody not named Drummond for the right return!

I just don't see any logic in trading Knight that doesn't work better with Stuckey!

[cool breeze]

When the season ended, I thought it was very clear that Dumars would be trying to trade Stuckey and Charlie V. Knight, meanwhile is in my opinion the most exciting Piston on this team. It seems that many fans focus on the point guard position thinking that Knight will never become a good one. That is a big mistake and Piston fans will being kicking themselves in years to come for encouraging Joe to trade him. I still feel that the biggest weakness on this team is at center and power forward. For some reason, fans seem to think that the Pistons are now set with two outstanding players in Drummond and Monroe and we do not need any additional big men of merit on the team. First off, Monroe is slow and has shown that he is among the worst defenders in the league. Drummond is untested and a raw talent. Potential yes but Drummond has a long way to go to become a beast without getting into foul trouble. Does he have the courage to get himself in outstanding shape or will he coast next season? None of us know that. All I can go on is this season and the Piston big men were among the worst in the league. Every team had their way in the paint. None of our big men could defend the pick and roll plays. And Monroe was worst of all hurting the team by being out of position often being outside the free throw line when opposing teams shot the ball. He never figured it out on defense in reaction to the rotations needed at specific times in games. At least we know something about Monroe but we still know next to nothing about the real Drummond. Everything is based on hope with some fans. Drummond had great moments but what will happen next for him? I don't know and none of you fans know either. Monroe put up a lot of shots and turned the ball over a lot at critical moments in games. Yet Knight has the target on his chest for his mistakes on offense. Detroit needs insurance in the big man department. That is why I want Cody Zeller. Knight, meanwhile has made a huge adjustment with his defense this past season. If he returns playing point guard with better players to pass the ball to, then you will be so happy if Joe Dumars is smart enough to keep him on this team.

Detroit needs a good young back up combo guard who has size and is a strong defender. We do not need any more circus players and the Detroit News is setting us fans up for another go around with guys like Bynum. No playoff team can win anything with Bynum. He makes too many mistakes on offense and gives up too much on defense. If Charlie V and Will Bynum are not making a lot of shots and they get a lot of playing time, then the Pistons will get blown out. How many times have we seen it happen? Enough is enough. It is time to bring in the studs who can shut down the opposing offense. How many skill position players listed in this draft fit that category? Most are all lacking in defensive ability at the college level. We already have last season's rookies who can shoot the ball OK. Dumars needs to make a trade involving Stuckey. He needs one more athletic big man and one or two proven vets.

And who better to bring in as a coach than Bill Laimbeer to work with our big men. Oh I forgot, the Detroit News sports experts have said that is not an option. Are you listening Mr. Gores???

[WTF]

I think you guys are channeling what you want to happen, which if fine and legitimate, just say it!

IMO, any thoughts you may have around Knight & a big as attractive, works better with Stuckey & a big!

Stuckey has real value that can bring back more and better players than Knight.

I think it's dumb to trade Knight, but I'll trade anybody not named Drummond for the right return!

I just don't see any logic in trading Knight that doesn't work better with Stuckey!

Not really because I don't have a preference either way with Knight. He definitely has talent but I made it no secret that I don't think he's a PG not now or later.

As I said it's just a gut feeling and the writing has been on the walls for quite some time that his future here is being kind of questioned. A lot will depend on who Joe drafts and what he does with those FA dollars one for thing for certain is he know he need an immediate impact out of that PG position.

I agree Stuckey can bring just a little bit more in trade value with his expiring contract but that would be more evident at trade deadline IMO. My Gut could be wrong.

Of the three (Knight, Monroe, and Drummond) if you had to give up one of the three who would it be? Likely Knight

[WTF]

I'm not completely sold on our front court being set either mainly because of Monroe, I don't think he's tough enough and far to passive with his outside shot. He's not a goto guy and that bothers me to no end and I have suggested many times that need to trade him before its too late and while his value is high. I suggested replacing him with at least one of these players since last trade deadline Bosh, Cousins, Aldridge and Smith, because I think they all look better and would work better with Drummond.

Knight does play hard, but he like 2 to 3 years out reaching his potential so time is against him and Joe in this case. Maybe he will become a better PG right now I don't see it. Trust me if it was up to me Monroe would be the one I would trade oppose to Knight but the problem is Joe, the media, and most of the fans see the 2 big's as the future of the franchise and they require the immediate assistance of a Pure PG.

[WTF]

Why are we even interviewing Hunter? Has Joe lost his freaking mind?

[Sparma]

If I were the Lions I would most of all want to draft one of the OTs (Fisher/ Joeckel/ Johnson), then Ansah, then Milliner. A few weeks ago it sounded like we'd get either Joeckel or Fisher. Now it sounds like there's a good chance we'll miss out on all three. Has there ever been a drafts with 3 OTs going in the top four picks? Dang. I'm being becoming more comfortable with taking a chance on Ansah at #5, in spite of the reservations many have, eg, on Mike & Mike. Maybe Dion Jordan over Milliner?

Back on topic: Cool, if you're right about your worries about our big guys, we're in a world of hurt. I regard the duo as our core (and I like Kravtsov as the #3 big guy). That said, I wouldn't be unhappy picking Zeller at #7 if he looks like the best player available come draft night. I'm old enough to like a platoon of big guys, as with the Bad Boys and even with the 2004 champs.

[Oracle]

Why are we even interviewing Hunter? Has Joe lost his freaking mind?

I love Lindsey, but seriously, he has even less experience than Curry at this point!

I don't fault him for his track record, he just didn't have the nads to turn down an impossible to succeed head coaching job!

That job was a sucker punch and he fell for it! Nobody was going to have any success with that team in the west!

But when you bites the apple, you gets the worm... too bad he swallowed!

[Oracle]

I think you guys are channeling what you want to happen, which if fine and legitimate, just say it!

IMO, any thoughts you may have around Knight & a big as attractive, works better with Stuckey & a big!

Stuckey has real value that can bring back more and better players than Knight.

I think it's dumb to trade Knight, but I'll trade anybody not named Drummond for the right return!

I just don't see any logic in trading Knight that doesn't work better with Stuckey!

Not really because I don't have a preference either way with Knight. He definitely has talent but I made it no secret that I don't think he's a PG not now or later.

As I said it's just a gut feeling and the writing has been on the walls for quite some time that his future here is being kind of questioned. A lot will depend on who Joe drafts and what he does with those FA dollars one for thing for certain is he know he need an immediate impact out of that PG position.

I agree Stuckey can bring just a little bit more in trade value with his expiring contract but that would be more evident at trade deadline IMO. My Gut could be wrong.

Of the three (Knight, Monroe, and Drummond) if you had to give up one of the three who would it be? Likely Knight

Wise, trading players is based on SALARY, not how much you like a player!

Stuckey's salary in addition to him expiring makes his 10 times the value of Knight, there's no comparison!

It's the numbers Bro!

[Oracle]

I'm not completely sold on our front court being set either mainly because of Monroe, I don't think he's tough enough and far to passive with his outside shot. He's not a goto guy and that bothers me to no end and I have suggested many times that need to trade him before its too late and while his value is high. I suggested replacing him with at least one of these players since last trade deadline Bosh, Cousins, Aldridge and Smith, because I think they all look better and would work better with Drummond.

Knight does play hard, but he like 2 to 3 years out reaching his potential so time is against him and Joe in this case. Maybe he will become a better PG right now I don't see it. Trust me if it was up to me Monroe would be the one I would trade oppose to Knight but the problem is Joe, the media, and most of the fans see the 2 big's as the future of the franchise and they require the immediate assistance of a Pure PG.

Wise, I became more comfortable with Monroe as the season progressed, but as I said earlier, I don't consider him untouchable! Even so, I do believe that he's part of the solution, but he isn't developed yet, and next year, the pieces should come together for him, or we'll know something is not quite right! The 4th year is generally where good players start to separate themselves from the pack!

While I totally agree with Don's point, I'm a bit more patient, especially with big men who generally take a lot longer... but not the good ones!

That's why I'm excited about Drummond(especially) and Monroe! They're both developing ahead of schedule for regular bigs, and are about on schedule for special bigs!

I am concerned about Monroe's speed and athleticism because it will always limit what he's capable of defensively. However, smart players can learn to compensate! Tim Duncan isn't the most athletic player and he's very successful, so there's hope!

[Sparma]

I think Knight has considerably more trade value than Stuckey. He's superyoung, so that some might project a big leap forward, unlike in the case of Stuckey. I think his rookie contract would be a draw too. Of course, to get equal value for Knight you'd need to lump his low salary in with a large salary. His value wouldn't come out in a 1 to 1 deal. IMO.

[Oracle]

If I were the Lions I would most of all want to draft one of the OTs (Fisher/ Joeckel/ Johnson), then Ansah, then Milliner. A few weeks ago it sounded like we'd get either Joeckel or Fisher. Now it sounds like there's a good chance we'll miss out on all three. Has there ever been a drafts with 3 OTs going in the top four picks? Dang. I'm being becoming more comfortable with taking a chance on Ansah at #5, in spite of the reservations many have, eg, on Mike & Mike. Maybe Dion Jordan over Milliner?

Back on topic: Cool, if you're right about your worries about our big guys, we're in a world of hurt. I regard the duo as our core (and I like Kravtsov as the #3 big guy). That said, I wouldn't be unhappy picking Zeller at #7 if he looks like the best player available come draft night. I'm old enough to like a platoon of big guys, as with the Bad Boys and even with the 2004 champs.

Yeah, 3 OT's rated that high is crazy, and I've never know that to happen! I'm just keeping my fingers crossed, we're only a few players away from being dominant, but a miss is as good as a mile.

The NFL is so different from the NBA! In the NFL, you can draft a player that will be able to come in and contribute on day one, and even dominate! That almost never happens in basketball, but happens on a regular basis in the NFL!

On topic, Don is correct if you're looking at a snapshot of today! He's raised the valid concerns, and it's up to the players, coaching and management to help these players grow and correct deficiencies.

I'm more confident that this will happen than Don, but it's something to consider!

[lemonpen]

For you Cousins lovers and Moose detractors, you might want to perform a statistical comparison. You may be surprised to find that STATISTICALLY SPEAKING they are now a dead heat. The measureables are darn near equal in all catagories. Again, STATISCALLY SPEAKING DCuz is falling off in all catagories while Moose's playing time is catching up and so are his numbers. It will be interesting to see what happens in 2013-14 with it being a key financial milestone.

I hope Joe is talking to Lindsey Hunter as a courtesy between friends. The interview experience can only help Hunter in the future.

Why be in such a hurry to dump kids that can play. No, they aren't uber well rounded yet (or ever) but, isn't the purpose of building cap space to allow us to go out and get the BIG DOG, goto guy, experienced leader. Joe is supposed to spend upwards of 12 mil on a guy who gives us credibility. A guy who by shear toughness, relentlessness and drive makes everyone else better and more confident in battle. He should then use about 7mil on a decent 3rd banana (assuming Monroe will be the solid Robin to our new Batman).

I hope we are talking to Stan Van Gundy. He has helped grow 1 raw atheletic big to All Star status, 1 undersized but smart PG to All Star status, 1 jack of all trades Euro, and manage an assortment of role players. He knows what a team that can win every night is supposed to look like and how to manipulate it through rough patches. Lastly SVG ought to have a pretty clear view of what is required of a team to progress deep into the playoffs.

[Oracle]

I think Knight has considerably more trade value than Stuckey. He's superyoung, so that some might project a big leap forward, unlike in the case of Stuckey. I think his rookie contract would be a draw too. Of course, to get equal value for Knight you'd need to lump his low salary in with a large salary. His value wouldn't come out in a 1 to 1 deal. IMO.

The reason it makes no sense are these!

1. Knight can't have the same value unless you don't believe in the CBA! You can't toss that out of the window to make value claims, money won't evaporate!

2. Before you talk value, you must first know what the value is! What's Knight's value? The answer is that you don't have a clue, and neither do I. That's the point of young players! You can guess at their potential, but know this! If you trade any player before you know their value, it's guaranteed that you'll make a mistake one way or another.

My point is, and has been simply this! If you're looking to package a big with a PG, the CV/Stuckey combo will net you more back that with Knight because you'll never get the salaries to mean much!

BTW, look at this from the other side! They don't know the value of knight, so why would they want to do a trade that gives them more work to do?

The bottom line is it's simple physics! Low cost players return low cost players! If there's any mind share associated, it's about the most valuable thing in the NBA today... an expiring contract!

[Oracle]

For you Cousins lovers and Moose detractors, you might want to perform a statistical comparison. You may be surprised to find that STATISTICALLY SPEAKING they are now a dead heat. The measureables are darn near equal in all catagories. Again, STATISCALLY SPEAKING DDuz is falling off in all catagories while Moose's playing time is catching up and so are his numbers. It will be interesting to see what happens in 2013-14 with it being a key financial milestone.

I hope Joe is talking to Lindsey Hunter as a courtesy between friends. The interview experience can only help Hunter in the future.

Why be in such a hurry to dump kids that can play. No, they aren't uber well rounded yet (or ever) but, isn't the purpose of building cap space to allow us to go out and get the BIG DOG, goto guy, experienced leader. Joe is supposed to spend upwards of 12 mil on a guy who gives us credibility. A guy who by shear toughness, relentlessness and drive makes everyone else better and more confident in battle. He should then use about 7mil on a decent 3rd banana (assuming Monroe will be the solid Robin to our new Batman).

I hope we are talking to Stan Van Gundy. He has helped grow 1 raw atheletic big to All Star status, 1 undersized but smart PG to All Star status, 1 jack of all trades Euro, and manage an assortment of role players. He knows what a team that can win every night is supposed to look like and how to manipulate it through rough patches. Lastly SVG ought to have a pretty clear view of what is required of a team to progress deep into the playoffs.

I totally endorse this post!

BTW, my coaching choices are Collins, McMillian & Stan Van Gundy! I'll take either, but after you jogged my memory SVG's stock is rising!

[Sparma]

Oracle, I agree that we don't know the trade value of Knight. Neither do we know the trade value of Stuckey. It's probably not a very productive discussion then. I'd love to agree with you that Stuckey's got more trade value than Knight because I'd love to trade Stuckey. You say "it's about the most valuable thing in the NBA today... an expiring contract!." Well, it's important consideration, but so are youth, talent, production at a very young age, potential, attitude, and work ethic, all of which favor Knight. Are we in agreement that Knight's significantly better than Stuckey already now, as a twenty year old? Stuckey's age and rate of improvement (if any) make his trade value pretty suspect now I'd love to be proven wrong by an actual trade or two. We may never know the right answer, but in spite of the valid considerations you raise, I disagree with you on this one.

btw, Fisher and Joeckel already off the board. Ugh. What happened to all those mock drafts that had us getting one or the other?

[cool breeze]

Someone on this board is thinking like me. They list Zeller for Detroit's first round pick and Myck Kabongo who is a point guard in the 2nd. Does anyone know this guy? I know all the boards list who they believe are the best possible selections in order. But my gut tells me to draft Zeller and then get a point guard who is pass first and can play strong defense.

I really like all the comments from you true blue Piston fans. Keep it up.

[WTF]

I think Knight has considerably more trade value than Stuckey. He's superyoung, so that some might project a big leap forward, unlike in the case of Stuckey. I think his rookie contract would be a draw too. Of course, to get equal value for Knight you'd need to lump his low salary in with a large salary. His value wouldn't come out in a 1 to 1 deal. IMO.

From a $$$$$ perspective yeah Stuckey is more valuable, but I agree with Sparma that perhaps in the eyes of the beholder youth and potential may trump that. But like I said Knight would only be a sweetener in any potential trade proposal, Knight potentially could be traded for an additional 1st round pick as well.

[Oracle]

I don't seem to be able to get through to you guys!

Knight & Stuckey can't be compared because Stuckey has a value that is so much higher.

The CBA doesn't care about any of the things you guys are talking about!

Contracts have to match within 25%(last I remember), you can't keep ignoring that when talking about trading players!

Youth and potential don't equate to expiring, you're talking about living in a real world vs living in a fantasy!

Feelings may come into play when you have to decide on pulling a trigger on a deal, but it has NOTHING to do with the deal!

BTW, Wise, you do have the more likely idea if anything would happen. Knight would be the sweetener, because he can't be a feature of the deal at his salary!

[Oracle]

The Grizz need to lay a whooping on the Clips tonight!

I love CB, but I'm rooting for Prince & the Grizz!

[WTF]

I don't seem to be able to get through to you guys!

Knight & Stuckey can't be compared because Stuckey has a value that is so much higher.

The CBA doesn't care about any of the things you guys are talking about!

Contracts have to match within 25%(last I remember), you can't keep ignoring that when talking about trading players!

Youth and potential don't equate to expiring, you're talking about living in a real world vs living in a fantasy!

Feelings may come into play when you have to decide on pulling a trigger on a deal, but it has NOTHING to do with the deal!

Okay we get that, but then you're missing our point. If I'm Team A and I want Knight to be included as part of whatever trade proposal Joe is offering then Knight becomes valuable to Team A. It doesn't matter what Stuckey's value is because Team A doesn't want him they want Knight.

I don't think either Sparma or myself attempted to compare the players in terms of dollars all we're saying is that if a team interest is with obtaining Knight then Knight value changes. What's more important to Team A? becomes the question at that point.

[Oracle]

That's the most confusing idea I've heard!

Who in their right mind is centering a trade with us for Knight?

Knight won't be the center of ANY trade you can think up unless drugs are involved!

You were on solid ground with the sweetener, but now you're lost

[WTF]

That's the most confusing idea I've heard!

Who in their right mind is centering a trade with us for Knight?

Knight won't be the center of ANY trade you can think up unless drugs are involved!

You were on solid ground with the sweetener, but now you're lost

I'm not saying he would be the center piece to any trade only that he could be used as a sweetener. I said that when I first mentioned the possibility of him being traded that Knight could be the sweetener to any deal. All I'm saying is he could be included in any deal that's potentially made. Sure Joe could offer Stuckey up in a trade thinking that expiring has value, but that team my come back and say no give me CV expiring and Knight. Depending on what Joe is trading for, Knight could be a goner that's type of value me and Sparma were referring to.

[Oracle]

Ella Fitzgerald's 96th Birthday... Go Ella!!!

[Only admins are allowed to see this image]

[Sparma]

I don't understand why Knight couldn't be the centerpiece in a trade. Say CV isn't amnestied and at the trade deadline he and Knight are traded for a solid young player with a salary roughly equivalent to the two. I'd see Knight as the centerpiece (ie the player the other team wanted), even though the trade couldn't be made without CV. Some ambiguity enters there because of the desirability of CV's expiring. So, let's say Knight's traded along with a merely decent player on a 3 year deal worth 7 mil per and Knight's the reason the other team's willing to make the deal. Knight's the centerpiece then, no?

[Sparma]

Ansah's nearly 24, which raises a question in my mind about whether his potential's really unbounded. Or is he actually older? Some scouts seem to suspect so in spite of passport evidence to the contrary.

"Ezekiel Ansah's passport viewedUpdated: April 18, 2013, 1:34 PM ETBy Chris Mortensen | ESPN Recommend35Tweet307Comments97EmailPrintIn an effort to clarify questions about the age of BYU defensive end Ezekiel "Ziggy" Ansah, a select group of interested teams have received photocopies of Ansah's Ghana passport to verify his birthdate as May 29, 1989.

Ansah's listed age of 23 has been the subject of scrutiny by some personnel officials. A copy of his government-issued passport that was transmitted to teams last week shows Ansah will be 24 on May 29. One team said the passport copy was sent by Ansah's agency, Sunwest Sports.

The Ghana passport was issued on March 1, 2008, the same year Ansah traveled to the United States after being converted as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to attend BYU, the Mormon-based college in Provo, Utah.

Ansah, 6-foot-5, 271 pounds, is a first-round prospect who could go in the top 10 of next week's NFL draft. Some scouts have stated privately that Ansah appears older than 23, but the same scouts have not indicated if it was a major stumbling block to his draft rating."

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