Wasn't Expecting This... so don't!

[Oracle]

Just Keep Doing What They've Been Doing and Final Four here we come. Would love to see Hardaway Jr get on track in the 2nd half. Just keep playing smart!

Ok, I'm loving this, but I know Michigan isn't this good and Florida isn't this bad!

However, if Michigan can only play even this 2nd half, we won't be on the road to the final four, we'll be in the Final Four!

Go Michigan!!!

[Oracle]

Burke is simply amazing!

Everything happens because of him, and there's going to be some guys averaging less when he's gone!

BTW, is there a son or brother of a NBA player NOT playing for Michigan???

[Oracle]

This one is OVER!!!

Michigan just needs to run clock, and the last Big Ten Team Standing will be in the final 4, and what a matchup, featuring the two best PG's in the country!

Trey Burke vs Michael Carter-Williams

[merc]

Burke looked like he was limping... NE1 hear what's up?

[cool breeze]

Glenn Robinson III -- We've been high on "Lil Big Dog" all season, keeping him as a late lottery pick despite lukewarm feedback from NBA scouts. He struggled with consistency and scoring in the second half of the year but exploded in the first weekend of the tourney with two outstanding performances. He averaged 17.5 points shooting a combined 15-of-19 from the floor in the two games, and adding 7.5 rebounds. In a draft without many sure bets, Robinson could grab a late lotto pick based on his potential. It would obviously be a benefit to his skillset to return, but with such a weak crop of talent, he stands a good chance to challenge for a lottery spot. - NBADraft

Really! Is NBADraft.net comprised of competent sportswriters or casual fans? I love Robinsons III potential but at one point before the season even started good they had Robinson III as a Top 5 pick really F@CKING INSANE! Obviously Robinson III needs to stay in school he's not NBA ready nor is most of the guys they're projecting as lottery picks. The nerve of these clowns to think they know more than these NBA Scouts do, but dumbass organization tend to follow the trands of the Hype Machines from the likes of NBADraft.net and ESPN Spin Machine.

The Draft Class isn't weak, it's just that all of the players they got hyped isn't living up to it. Not strange at all considering they're hyping freshmen every year because in their crazy confused minds they keep looking for the next Melo or Rose. NBA Teams need to just do there homework, stop listening to the spin machince and make intelligent choices. I've seen some great talent out there playing in the tourney and I don't see a draft class that's weak.

I like your post Wisefan. What is it with names? One of the best Michigan State High School ball games ever played involved Glenn Robinson where I think he had to have scored over 40 points. He just could not be stopped no matter what the opposing team tried to do. That was because Glenn had a special gift that his son is no where close to having yet. Glenn's game almost matched Magic Johnson's State Final game where he beat Brother Rice almost by himself and in overtime stole the ball and went the length of the court to make a 360 turn-around behind the back slam dunk to end the game. Robinson III doesn't come close to being the player his Father was while his Dad was a high school player. He needs to play college for the full 4 years in my opinion. And Hardaway is in the same boat. I can't see why any team would draft those two players in the first round.

[cool breeze]

First off, way to go U. of M.!!!

Burke is the new Isiah Thomas if Detroit has the opportunity to draft him. However, because he has played so well, I expect that he will no longer be under the radar and might go as high as the first 3 picks if he keeps playing like he has been playing. And against Florida, he had the flu no less. Then again, who knows what Joe Dumars is thinking right now? One of the big reasons why our Pistons have sucked for so long is the fact that they have very few players on the team that compare with Burke's. I am not confident that Monroe will ever be able to hit a big shot in a big game. I think that in time Knight will do it at the NBA level. And Singler has that in him as well as was evident when his college team won the championship and he was MVP. However, there sure are a lot of gifted athletes who impress guys like Joe Dumars but have no history of doing great things when it counts. Those are the players Detroit needs. We need more players who hate losing. For sure, Stuckey is not one of those players. Monroe and Drummond have no history of doing great things when it counts. That is why I am holding back in my assessment of Drummond. Monroe has developed the ability to score but his defense shows me he is not committed to doing what it takes to be part of a winner. Drummond is a monster player capable of great things but will he get there before his career is over? And has he thought out exactly who he wants to be? I worry about Drummond because of his college experience. He didn't shine there and he didn't try very hard. We fans think we have a few players who could turn around this horrible team but there are some real concerns because of some of the player's previous history. In Burke's case, there is no doubt about who he is and there will be a lot of GMs lining up to draft him now.

[WTF]

Burke looked like he was limping... NE1 hear what's up?

Burke was playing with the flu today, just simply amazing. He was out of it from the start of th game but you couldn't tell until the start of the 2nd half that something wasn't quite right with him.

[WTF]

Don, that could very well be the case if we're lucky enough in the draft to get him. I'm just glad that everyone is getting to see what I've been seeing the past 2 years in Burke.


Oracle, I hope Fat Joe has his ass glue to the televison for this game and pay close attention to it. DX was big on Carter-Williams early and rightfully so because this kid is good all around and I can see him as this NBA PG that consistently get Triple-Double. He will score, he will rebound, and he'll get assist. Not much more I can say about Trey Burke than what I've been posting all season. The match of these two alone is worth watching.

[WTF]

1 *Charlotte Ben McLemore Fr.
2 Orlando Nerlens Noel Fr.
3 Cleveland Marcus Smart Fr.
4 Phoenix Otto Porter So.
5 *Detroit Anthony Bennett Fr.
6 *Sacramento Cody Zeller So.
7 New Orleans Alex Len So.
8 Washington Victor Oladipo Jr.
9 *Oklahoma Cty Shabazz Muhammad Fr.
10 Minnesota CJ McCollum Sr.
11 *Philadelphia Kelly Olynyk Jr.
12 *Portland Trey Burke So.
13 *Dallas Willie Cauley-St... Fr.
14 Utah Glenn Robinson III Fr.

Please examine this list and tell me if it makes any common sense. Ask why would Portland draft Burke when they already have a ROY PG? and really McLemore to go play for MJ his career would be doomed at the word go. There 7 freshmen listed here and I assure you none of them are NBA ready. For certain not Glenn Robinson III but Robinson is the only freshmen still playing largely because of where he's playing.

Look at all the players going to the Final Four and ask how many do you think should be lottery picks.

[Sparma]

The team looked lively, but lost. A good result. They look capable of another late season sprint to cost them draft position, but I'm hopeful the damage will be confined to a couple of wins.

Drummond grabs 14 rebounds, but looked bad on 2 straight airballs on free throws.

Tanking, in spite of Frank's vigilance? The Chicago announcers noted a couple of surprising failures to substitute: a) with the Pistons fumbling away balls as the lead faded, they wondered why Calderon hadn't been subbed in and why Kim English stayed in and b) noting that Monroe had 15 at the time (as I remember), they expressed surprise that the misfiring CV stayed in. The subs came shortly after, so probably no big deal. But what they pointed out would be consistent with tanking.

[Oracle]

I've seen free throws that draw rain, and some that just draw iron, but that first one from drummond, almost drew DIRT!

Just when you thought it was impossible to miss that bad, BAM!!! Oh well, we don't love him for his FT's, LOL!

This was a good game, one where we led almost the whole game, and I'm really getting sold on Monroe/Drummond! I have to fight through the frustration to remember that they're all babies who haven't found their NBA confidence level yet.

For Monroe, I expect next year to be when he finally puts it together. Knight has a year longer, but he will be under threat as well next year to show substantial improvement. For Knight, the bone headed plays need to be gone next year, and improved ball handling and distriguting should be on display(along with better FT shooting).

However, the BIG thing you mentioned was the "T" Word... Tanking!

I believe that the Pistons, having proved beyond a doubt that they can handle this Roseless Chicago team, took their foot off the gas and took one for the team!

They can get away with tanking against a playoff level team, but they'll likely win against lower teams.

IMO, this is a different team when you have Monroe & Drummond in the lineup, and even just having a capable big in the game at all times helps everyone else.

We have the foundation of a good team in the near term, and a VERY good team next year if, even if Joe does a half assed job!

Why? Because we should get the PG we need from the draft without a doubt! One of the two best in the country WILL be there when we pick, and possibly both depending on the needs of the teams in front of us!

Secondly, we can let Calderon walk, which gives us an almost unfair advantage over a lot of teams to get what we need in the FA market, whild still holding some important pieces to trade with.

This is a very exciting time for us Piston Fans!!!

[Phil-Good]

Wait 1 minute Oracle.... Now those words are too positive!! This place is doom and gloom.


"Fire Joe, Fire, Frank, Fire my mommy, fire my daddy, fire my uncle, fire Arne Kander, trade Greg Monroe, trade me, trade you, blow-up the team, change the name of the team, move the Pistons to another city,,, GET TO THE CHOPPER!!!!! DAAAA!!

The Moose, Big Drummonds, A boat Load of Cap Space, 2013 potential #1 pick.

I like what Gores and Joe are trying to do. Build something that is real and will last for years to come. I don't mind missing the playoff for A few years for that.

Keep building the right way and let's get back to the NBA Finals...

[Sparma]

I agree with you that the team is close to being good, this after a 1-13 stretch. Time will tell if we're being delusional. Big summer for the team.
Encouraging early returns on Monroe and AD playing together. And Knight should be able to cut back on mistakes. It did feel like they came closer to tanking than in the past when they were getting destroyed. They're back to being competitive which may cause trouble down the stretch, with #5 in sight.

[WTF]

I'm not completely sold at the moment on our core and it's not for a lack of talent with Knight, Drummond and Monroe but for all the other things that needs to accompany talent.

Knight: Forget if he ever transition to become an effective starting PG in this league all is not lost because with his talent he can be an effective SG even at 6'3. He has a lot of heart and he wants to win games it shows.

Drummond: Cornerstone, Franchise, its clear that his ceiling is almost un-seeable because in the next 2 season we could be looking at the second coming of a more athletic Patrick Ewing IMO.

Monroe: While it's clear what Knight and Drummond could bring to the team I'm by no means sold on Monroe at all. I question everything about Monroe ???????????????

[Oracle]

For the purposes of this post, I'm considering only Monroe & Drummond.

Drummond is amazing! He's already impacting games and it's impossible that he's anywhere near peak conditioning and timing after sitting for such a long period! Missing one week will throw any NBA player out of timing and generate a loss in conditioning, although recovery of both is fairly quick. Being out as long as Drummond was could take about a month, and by then the season will be winding down.

The fact that he can impact games at this point speaks to his massive talent! Drummond, on the defensive end, is almost equivalent to having both Sheed & Big Ben in their prime! He's as big as Sheed and every bit as good a shot blocker but he also has the speed and athleticism of big Ben to be a premier help defender because he covers so much court so quickly!

Offensively he's no Sheed, but he's no Big Ben either! Offensively, he has to be accounted for, and in 4th quarter situations, you just have to rely on lobs until he develops some post moves and improve his FT percentage. Unlike Ben, he has a nice stroke and form, so there is hope that he can improve to better than 50%.

Monroe has been in my dog house all season, but now I'm having a fresher look at Monroe!

Monroe has a VERY nice set of post moves for such a young player with his spin moves being some of the most impressive. I assumed that his style wouldn't allow Drummond to operate in the only area he's capable of offensively... the low block! Now I think I was wrong!

For starters, Drummond isn't going to try to score on every play down the court, so he doesn't need to hog the low block, but after seeing them play together, in addition to Monroe's excellent back to the basket ability, he has learned to effectively use angles from the high post to get to the basket!

The only problem with his high post moves has been his lack of confidence to finish at the rim. I used to attribute that to him being timid, but as I look at him now, it's just that he's still a kid, and that confidence will be gained as he grows. So for now, offensively, we could use a Drummond early and often strategy and Monroe late to avoid Drummonds lack of FT capability!

In fact, if you look at both Monroe and Drummond you'll see two solid frames that haven't even been filled out yet! Both of these guys are going to be vicious loads to handle when they reach maturity, and it would be a crime to give up on Monroe this early!

BTW, with Monroe, once he becomes a FA, we need to let him test the waters to determine his value. At that point, we can then either match the offer, or match it in a sign and trade if the number is too high, but the point is that we'll still have options!

[WTF]

For the purposes of this post, I'm considering only Monroe & Drummond.

Drummond is amazing! He's already impacting games and it's impossible that he's anywhere near peak conditioning and timing after sitting for such a long period! Missing one week will throw any NBA player out of timing and generate a loss in conditioning, although recovery of both is fairly quick. Being out as long as Drummond was could take about a month, and by then the season will be winding down.

The fact that he can impact games at this point speaks to his massive talent! Drummond, on the defensive end, is almost equivalent to having both Sheed & Big Ben in their prime! He's as big as Sheed and every bit as good a shot blocker but he also has the speed and athleticism of big Ben to be a premier help defender because he covers so much court so quickly!

Offensively he's no Sheed, but he's no Big Ben either! Offensively, he has to be accounted for, and in 4th quarter situations, you just have to rely on lobs until he develops some post moves and improve his FT percentage. Unlike Ben, he has a nice stroke and form, so there is hope that he can improve to better than 50%.

Monroe has been in my dog house all season, but now I'm having a fresher look at Monroe!

Monroe has a VERY nice set of post moves for such a young player with his spin moves being some of the most impressive. I assumed that his style wouldn't allow Drummond to operate in the only area he's capable of offensively... the low block! Now I think I was wrong!

For starters, Drummond isn't going to try to score on every play down the court, so he doesn't need to hog the low block, but after seeing them play together, in addition to Monroe's excellent back to the basket ability, he has learned to effectively use angles from the high post to get to the basket!

The only problem with his high post moves has been his lack of confidence to finish at the rim. I used to attribute that to him being timid, but as I look at him now, it's just that he's still a kid, and that confidence will be gained as he grows. So for now, offensively, we could use a Drummond early and often strategy and Monroe late to avoid Drummonds lack of FT capability!

In fact, if you look at both Monroe and Drummond you'll see two solid frames that haven't even been filled out yet! Both of these guys are going to be vicious loads to handle when they reach maturity, and it would be a crime to give up on Monroe this early!

BTW, with Monroe, once he becomes a FA, we need to let him test the waters to determine his value. At that point, we can then either match the offer, or match it in a sign and trade if the number is too high, but the point is that we'll still have options!

Sounds like you caught a bad case of the Doubting Dumars when it comes to Monroe. You can see that beast filling out in Drummond but I'm not so sure with Monroe. I think you were right the first time about him being timid

[deusXango]

For all the fans that support the Drummond/Monroe frontline, I add my name to that number. Greg Monroe was the first quality big man the Pistons recieved from the draft in a long time and at the ripe old age of 22 his skills have not begun to erode; he can get better in all fazes of his game, defense included! The time he put into working on a PF game last summer went all for naught, until two games ago!!! Doesn't matter, the fans who just plain don't like Greg Monroe had him written off as a failure at PF long before he had a chance to play with Andre Drummond.

We got our wish with Drummond finally getting a chance to start and play alongside Monroe; I'm pissed with the timing of this as it appears to be a pairing that should have taken place long before Drummond was hurt! Who's denying that the development of our three bigs (yes three; I believe Slava should have been getting backup minutes when Drummond started) hurt this team more than anything else; show your damn faces. We've got to stop looking at those air balls from the free throw line and start looking at the points this young man scored coming off a 22 game layoff, followed up with the rebounding night he just had; he's everything we hoped for, and Monroe is just finding his way with this powerhouse of a player, after wasting two seasons playing with Jason Maxiell. Really folks, how much do you think that experience helped Monroe's game?

If U of M wins this weekend, Trey Burke should be our pick in the first round; no one drafting ahead of us will take him, and if we took a chance on Mateen Cleaves (with all the holes he had in game in college) we should call Burkes name; that's a name that'll fill the seats in the Palace, and Joe has beau coup bucks saved by not re-signing Calderon, plus Burke is 10 years younger than Calderon. The team needs upgrades at SG and SF and that's where the money should go. Our bench has the potential to be the best in basketball, if the needed players to make it so are sold on it, and this is where a Bill Laimbeer, Nate McMillan, Brian Shaw, or any ex-player who knows the game and can command the respect of the players comes in; those three are a million light years ahead of what Lil' Larry can bring to the team that's being built.

Without going into my personal preferrences for FA signings I'll simply state that Monroe and Knight coming off the Pistons bench and playing 30 minutes a night is not a knock on them but, a hell of an upgrade on the team. If Joe Dumars drafts wisely, signs wisely, and trades wisely we have a contending team; these things must be done, not talked about!! Monroe and Knight have all the experience and leadership capabilities to command an awesome 2nd unit, what the Pistons will need is a leader to command all the troops and I believe that's Trey Burke. Who's the coach who has a history of having his PG's back through thick and thin? Bill Laimbeer!!

[WTF]

Mr. DX, I don't think it a hate thing it certainly isn't with me. I don't think saying that he's timid or not being a fit is a sign that he's hated.

Monroe needs to be down Miami with Lebron and D-Wade or on a team where he doesn't have to be the leader or a super star. Here in Detroit it's imperative that he assume that role and he simply can't or hasn't proven to this point that he is capable. He has the talent to be one of the most dominate big in the league but that's not how he present himself its almost like that sh!t we got out of Prince. He doesn't need to be playing second fiddle to anyone on this team because he's head and shoulders above all of them yet he does. This isn't a good thing.

The other thing is we can't keep waiting on him to potentially become what everyone think he will be. Joe needs to makea splash now and he can't keep waiting for it all to fall in place 2 or 3 years from now because the clock isn't in his favor...Tick Tick Tick... We really need to be seriously contending before 2015

[Oracle]

@Wise - Wise, both you and Don have big man questions(although different), and my post does nothing to diminish the legitimate points you both make.

What you both see is real, all I'm saying, and it's an opinion, is that IMO, a lot(not all) of the problems we all see are youth related, and will be eliminated or mitigated as they grow as players.

The Child will be much different than the man, and at 19 & 22 years of age, these puppies are far from fully formed and the big dogs they'll be in a few years!

@DX -Dx, you bring up another point that's certainly on the table! Getting another PF(is he playing in Atlanta?) to play with Drummond and having both Monroe and Knight coming off the bench!

The only problem with that thought is that we would need to win something fairly quickly or we won't be able to afford all of that talent for long!

Draft: I believe that both guards will be there when we pick, and I LOVE both for different reasons. I do believe that Burke is simply too dynamic to pass on, but I wouldn't be upset if Joe selected Carter-Williams.

[cool bre]

Detroit played great ball against Chicago right up to the start of the 4th quarter. Everyone's attention was on Drummond and who could not be excited seeing two big bodies (Monroe-Drummond} falling back on defense? Singler looked real good on both ends and especially his effort to lead the fast break, defend the weak side and step into the passing lanes. Stuckey played really strong as well but just could not get his shot to fall in the 4th quarter. Who is Stuckey? My bet is that he will have a great year once he is traded but it just won't happen if he remains on the team for some unknown reason. Maybe he is just tired of all the coaching changes or the type of coaches Dumars has hired. Knight shouldn't have playeld again with that high ankle sprain but this guy is tough as hell. Even though he couldn't make a shot for most of the game, Knight drilled a critical 3 point shot in the 4th quarter. But I was especially impressed with the effort displayed by Jerebco. God he played so hard it reminded me of Jonas as a rookie. He was going close to blackout at times sucking for air during free throws. It still amazes me how management could have decided to start Maxiell this entire season and give him so much playing time. This is especially hard to understand when you look at game film with Monroe and Maxiell playing together. It is a horrible fit for many reasons. Maxiell is not a threat on offense and he has never been known as a defensive rebounder. While Monroe is out of position chasing guards at the 3 point line, we see the tiny Maxiell standing in the paint. Maybe Joe would want to sign Pee Wee Herman next season to play power forward. I can't imagine any coach doing what Frank has done without pressure from above. Moving on, English did not hurt the team last night. Detroit needs to move forward and forget about signing Bynum and Maxiell but my gut feeling is that Joe Dumars still believes those two players are huge assets. I am not going to throw Charlie V into the mix with Joe's other favorites because Charlie played hard last night. Still he needs to go by the beginning of next season. With the right combination of players getting playing time, better chemistry will develop like it did last night.

[Oracle]

While my focus was on the big men, I forgot to do a shout out to JJ, Singler & Knight! BTW, I know Stuckey will revive his career once he gets traded... he needs a fresh start, hopefully with a good coach! I also blame Joe for Stuckey's failure, because if he hadn't traded Chauncey so soon, when Stuckey was really learning, we would have a different Stuckey!

Anyways, back to what I wanted to talk about!

JJ absolutely is proving to me that he has a place on this team going forward! He just does so many of the garbage duties for a team it's crazy! He keeps posessions alive, crashes the boards, shoots when necessary, and is in general a real pest to opposing teams like NOBODY else that we have!

I was for trading him earlier, but now I absolutely don't want to unless we get an offer we can't refuse!

Singler was excellent last night, and while I don't believe he can be a starter next year, we need a player with his skills that can play both SG & SF off the bench, and is fundamentally sound(i.e., won't hurt you).

Knight should be shut down for the season, but he's so determined and tough, he won't go quietly into that night! I love the group of youngsters that we have because NONE of them are quitters, or will accept the easy way out even if you give it to them.

They want to win in the worst way, and it's up to Joe to make that happen.

Speaking of Joe, he needs to get us a stretch SF, because Monroe is never going to be a stretch 4 even if he does start hitting 12-15 footers, he isn't going out any farther(ala Sheed).

We also need a real SG that can shoot(ala RIP), and we could use another PF and Slava needs to become a REGULAR part of the lineup!

[Oracle]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Sebastian]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Yeah, I hope that Maxey has a successful recovery and is able to continue his career.

[Phil-Good]

If Joe don't draft Trey Burk The Sour Cynic will cry and bitch...and cry and bitch....and cry and bitch.. for 13 years GUARANTEED!

Just draft the damn kid Joe... PLEASE!

[WTF]

If Joe don't draft Trey Burk The Sour Cynic will cry and bitch...and cry and bitch....and cry and bitch.. for 13 years GUARANTEED!

Just draft the damn kid Joe... PLEASE!

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