Collins vs Frank

[Grizz3]

Would still take Collins over Frank anytime anyday anyhow ... 76ers are still dealing with trading away their main star Iquodala and their main reason for doing the deal .. Big Center Bynum .. still isnt playing while in injury recovery time.. Big pieces to any team to lose and adjust to ... We caught at a good time .. Still an impressive win .. And Frank went away from Stuckey to Singler .. major good move ... Franks needs 1 or 2 more ..... Today Frank showed us something .. Hope he finishes the season if the team gets young guys playing and improving ..

[deusXango]

Now that we've experienced a little movement, with positive results, why not move Daye to the inactive list and give Kravtsov a little "burn?" A few games won't kill us, and I'm very curious to see what this man can do under game conditions; this 7', shot-blocking, rebounding, space eating man.

[Rett]

WHEW!!


alright now, we got the monkey off our backs...
Go and WIN MORE!!!

[Rett]

maybe that's why we got a "W"??????????


just askin..

[Grizz3]

Sorry to hear this .. for 2 reasons . first ...Hope Stuck gets well soon .. 2nd .. I was hoping Coach Frank would simply have the balls to bench Stuckey and start playing our younger and better players ... Hmmm . .Does anyone know the story on Stuckey being inactive?

[deusXango]

We got a win on the road, now let's get one at home, in front of the Pistons adoring fans. When Stuckey returns, it'll be right back to the complete BS lineup, which ain't so bad; we're gonna get a choice lottery pick this year!

Shabazz Mohammad would make a hell of a SG for this teams rebuild. Talk about star potential, this kid has it. Envision a starting backcourt of Knight and Mohammad (for those of you that keep up with the coming talent), absolutely awesome!!!

The Stuckey haters have been vilified on this forum, now it's time to serve up some humility to the Stuckey jockers; I think you better let it go. First you got in lock-step with Joe's hype about what a great PG he could be, then when it became obvious he didn't have a clue as to what it took to run a team, it morphed into, sliding him over to SG, his "natural" position. A SG that can't shoot (anything other than free throws!), and that's supposed to be justification for cementing him in the starting lineup? Saner heads are prevailing. Now it's getting to be all about what a great 6th man he'd make...on this team! Come on, give me a break; why is it a "must" that Stuckey be a part of this team no matter what? Why can't he be an asset in another capacity, like a trade piece? Looking at Singler's consistent performances, he's the best 6th man candidate we have (SG/SF), then there's English, and it's yet to be determined what Middleton can bring to the team. If it took letting him go, to make a blockbuster trade work, bye, bye, it was great!

[merc]

Hmm... this Singler kid has a good feel for how the game should be played... and a nice stroke... keeper

[WTF]

Okay I was really was hoping for an 0 and 16 start. I didn't watch the game last night but it clearly looked like we had this game in control from beginning to end judging from the box scores. So whu in the hell did Drummond only play 11 minutes in this one?

Stuckey didn't play and Knight stats actually looked the way a PG stats suppose to look like for the first time since like forever. 9 FG attempts is all ge should ever take in a game. Don't get excited though folks Stuckey will be back real soon and Frank will forget how well Singler looked in this game, it'll be business as usual.

Still think the team should sport those 1948 version jersey the rest of the season.

[Murph]

We got a win on the road, now let's get one at home, in front of the Pistons adoring fans. When Stuckey returns, it'll be right back to the complete BS lineup, which ain't so bad; we're gonna get a choice lottery pick this year!

Shabazz Mohammad would make a hell of a SG for this teams rebuild. Talk about star potential, this kid has it. Envision a starting backcourt of Knight and Mohammad (for those of you that keep up with the coming talent), absolutely awesome!!!

I can't believe the game was blacked-out in my area last night. CT isn't even remotely close to Philadelphia. Geesh!

Anyhoo...I have mixed emotions about last night's win. Sure it's good to get off the snide, but now that the Pistons are going to win some games and become respectable, what are the odds that Gores fires Lil Larry now? With the talent on this team, the Pistons are going to start to make Lil Larry look competent again, even though he's a mediocre coach at best. We're probably going to be stuck with Lil Larry for years.

DX...I doubt we'll be bad enough to get Shabazz Muhammad. I'm hoping for James McAdoo. You can't go wrong with a 6'9 SF from UNC. And I always liked his uncle and former Pistons, Bob...even though Bob never played a lick of defense.

I see the Moose was on the loose again last night. 18 boards is outstanding.

Also, lost in the excitment was JMax's best game of the season. MiniMax had 8 pts, 12 rbds, 3 asts and 3 blks.

Ever since JJ got elbowed in the throat by Thomas Robinson, he's lost his shooting touch. JJ is 5-25 (20%) from the floor and scoring 3.3 ppg, since the cheap shot. Prior to that, JJ was shooting 48%, and scoring 10.8 ppg.

[Sebastian]

I may be pillaged for the following comments, but this is just how I feel. First off, I not entirely happy that OUR Pistons got their first win last night, but I guess it had to come at some point.

No, I am not a fan of L. Frank. I want him out of here, as soon as possible. I don't like his starting line-ups, his ridiculous rotations, or his sideline demeanor. And, especially don't like the way he speaks in riddles.

If he's still coaching after 20 games and WE are no better than 4-20, I would say let his ass go.

Now, my next comments are somewhat harsh, but first allow me to say that Singler is tough, a steady and somewhat cerebral player; all good attributes, indeed. But, when Kyle Singler becomes the 3 or 4th best player on your team, then your team is not very talented or attractive.

Folks, Singler is no Larry Legend or Dirk. So, please don't get it twisted.

But, I'll take the win, but I want L. Frank gone and Singler to be OUR 8th or 9th man at best.

[deusXango]

Murph, the James Michael McAdoo suggestion is a great call...can't go wrong with this kid. If he develops his uncles instinct to be a relentless scorer, he'll be the steal of next years draft. I'm just more desperate to be free of Stuckey than I am Prince, that's my problem.

I really think Lil' Larry could coach a team full of kids, if given the task, but he has trouble blending vets in with youngsters...his rotations suck, and his in game decisions suffer, because of the veteran element. We'll see as time goes on. Personally, there's something about him I don't trust; that's me.

Remember Frankie D's heads up on [Only admins are allowed to see this link] the next time you're blacked out; you know how resourceful we are.

[Murph]

Remember Frankie D's heads up on [Only admins are allowed to see this link] the next time you're blacked out; you know how resourceful we are.

Oh yes...I forgot about that sight. I'll use it next time. Thanks.

[lemonpen]

I may be pillaged for the following comments, but this is just how I feel. First off, I not entirely happy that OUR Pistons got their first win last night, but I guess it had to come at some point.

No, I am not a fan of L. Frank. I want him out of here, as soon as possible. I don't like his starting line-ups, his ridiculous rotations, or his sideline demeanor. And, especially don't like the way he speaks in riddles.

If he's still coaching after 20 games and WE are no better than 4-20, I would say let his ass go.

Now, my next comments are somewhat harsh, but first allow me to say that Singler is tough, a steady and somewhat cerebral player; all good attributes, indeed. But, when Kyle Singler becomes the 3 or 4th best player on your team, then your team is not very talented or attractive.

Folks, Singler is no Larry Legend or Dirk. So, please don't get it twisted.

But, I'll take the win, but I want L. Frank gone and Singler to be OUR 8th or 9th man at best.

No flogging here.
Perception is funny. I feel the complete opposite. Loved the win. Loved the tenacious D (sure Phillys crappy outside shooting helped). Love the message LF sends his players, both verbally and in actions.

During his post game interview LF was asked the typical FAN question regarding a change to the starting lineup as the result of Singlers solid performance. His answer was perfect. He hesitated, stammered, then weakly assured them Rodney would continue to start. It was perfect because the unspoken message clearly indicated that there is now a competition at SG.
The best thing for our TEAM at this point in its development is internal competition, particularly where there was none, and even more importantly where the incumbent was significantly underperforming (comp has done wonders at PF). Secondly, the kid sidesteps 2 vets in a battle for PT @ SF, for now. Yeah it negatively affects English, for now.

I look forward to observing and enjoying how the players growth and Joe’s management of the roster determines pecking order within the team and individual rank in the eastern conference.

[Sebastian]

I may be pillaged for the following comments, but this is just how I feel. First off, I not entirely happy that OUR Pistons got their first win last night, but I guess it had to come at some point.

No, I am not a fan of L. Frank. I want him out of here, as soon as possible. I don't like his starting line-ups, his ridiculous rotations, or his sideline demeanor. And, especially don't like the way he speaks in riddles.

If he's still coaching after 20 games and WE are no better than 4-20, I would say let his ass go.

Now, my next comments are somewhat harsh, but first allow me to say that Singler is tough, a steady and somewhat cerebral player; all good attributes, indeed. But, when Kyle Singler becomes the 3 or 4th best player on your team, then your team is not very talented or attractive.

Folks, Singler is no Larry Legend or Dirk. So, please don't get it twisted.

But, I'll take the win, but I want L. Frank gone and Singler to be OUR 8th or 9th man at best.

No flogging here.
Perception is funny. I feel the complete opposite. Loved the win. Loved the tenacious D (sure Phillys crappy outside shooting helped). Love the message LF sends his players, both verbally and in actions.

During his post game interview LF was asked the typical FAN question regarding a change to the starting lineup as the result of Singlers solid performance. His answer was perfect. He hesitated, stammered, then weakly assured them Rodney would continue to start. It was perfect because the unspoken message clearly indicated that there is now a competition at SG.
The best thing for our TEAM at this point in its development is internal competition, particularly where there was none, and even more importantly where the incumbent was significantly underperforming (comp has done wonders at PF). Secondly, the kid sidesteps 2 vets in a battle for PT @ SF, for now. Yeah it negatively affects English, for now.

I look forward to observing and enjoying how the players growth and Joe’s management of the roster determines pecking order within the team and individual rank in the eastern conference.

Yo, Lemon, the thing that I appreciate most about the Pistons Talk Forum that We've created, here, is the genuine respect that WE have of each one's points-of-view. Unlike, some other high, profiled, moderated Pistons forum (specifically, PistonsPowered).

No, WE don't all agree, but when WE disagree, WE tend to do it with respect and without a sense of authority, like some other high, profiled, Pistons forum moderators (PistonsPowered, Patrick Hayes).

Do not misunderstand me, I respect the work that some other high, profiled, moderated Pistons forum do, but sometimes those dudes think they know every damn thing.

WE are all Pistons fan!

Peace to you, Lemonpen, and my other fellow Pistons fans.

[WTF]

I may be pillaged for the following comments, but this is just how I feel. First off, I not entirely happy that OUR Pistons got their first win last night, but I guess it had to come at some point.

No, I am not a fan of L. Frank. I want him out of here, as soon as possible. I don't like his starting line-ups, his ridiculous rotations, or his sideline demeanor. And, especially don't like the way he speaks in riddles.

If he's still coaching after 20 games and WE are no better than 4-20, I would say let his ass go.

Now, my next comments are somewhat harsh, but first allow me to say that Singler is tough, a steady and somewhat cerebral player; all good attributes, indeed. But, when Kyle Singler becomes the 3 or 4th best player on your team, then your team is not very talented or attractive.

Folks, Singler is no Larry Legend or Dirk. So, please don't get it twisted.

But, I'll take the win, but I want L. Frank gone and Singler to be OUR 8th or 9th man at best.

I feel you Sebastian on this. I like that Singler got the start by clearly by defualt but I think he's better option to replace Tay and not Stuckey. There more I look at the stats the more it looks like Philly just had an off night. Philly been a better road team and haven't played well at home so far this season.

This would have been a better win for us if Drummond and English played meaningful minutes.

[cool breeze]

I may be pillaged for the following comments, but this is just how I feel. First off, I not entirely happy that OUR Pistons got their first win last night, but I guess it had to come at some point.

No, I am not a fan of L. Frank. I want him out of here, as soon as possible. I don't like his starting line-ups, his ridiculous rotations, or his sideline demeanor. And, especially don't like the way he speaks in riddles.

If he's still coaching after 20 games and WE are no better than 4-20, I would say let his ass go.

Now, my next comments are somewhat harsh, but first allow me to say that Singler is tough, a steady and somewhat cerebral player; all good attributes, indeed. But, when Kyle Singler becomes the 3 or 4th best player on your team, then your team is not very talented or attractive.

Folks, Singler is no Larry Legend or Dirk. So, please don't get it twisted.

But, I'll take the win, but I want L. Frank gone and Singler to be OUR 8th or 9th man at best.

I feel you Sebastian on this. I like that Singler got the start by clearly by defualt but I think he's better option to replace Tay and not Stuckey. There more I look at the stats the more it looks like Philly just had an off night. Philly been a better road team and haven't played well at home so far this season.

This would have been a better win for us if Drummond and English played meaningful minutes.

The comments about Singler show me that neither Sebastian or Wisefan actually watched the game last night. Watch the game film to find the truth. Why do you people say such foolish things passing judgment after one of our Piston players has played his guts out. This team was fun to watch for the first time in 3 or 4 years. Make no mistake about Singler. Watch his quickness when it counts. See how he closes out on the outside shooters yet doesn't give any ground in the paint. How many times did a Philly 2 guard that Singler was guarding even think about trying to drive to the basket. It just didn't happen. You both have really under estimated Kyle Singler. This man has picked up a lot of great stuff from Larry Bird. Singler has become a complete basketball player through hard work and he is a guy who loves pressure and excells under pressure situations. Just wait until he gets two seasons under his belt. I don't know of any other player coach Sean Miller of Arizona worried more about before playing a team than the Sweet 16 game two years ago involving Duke and Arizona. In case you forgot, Singler was MVP on the winning NCAA championship team the year before that. Miller is a great judge of talent. He knew how Singler can upset a team the way he plays defense. Singler could guard every position in college. And Miller was equally worried about Singler's ability on offense. He knows how to adjust and react to every situation how Singler can affect his teammates in a postive way. I know that Miller was not very worried about Irving on that same Duke team but he was worried about the skill level and smarts that Singler possessed. Notice last night how much better Prince, Knight, Monroe and Maxiell played on the defensive end. Notice what Singler did as the shot clock was winding down and a teammate was being doubled. He made some great cuts to get open. Ask anyone who has followed Kyle Singler's history and they will tell you that he has made every team he has ever been on much better because he has no ego and only wants to play the right and winning way. However, instead of feeling lucky as a Piston fan, both of you come off as experts telling others that Singler is nothing to get excited about. Well if you actually watched the game you for sure wouldn't be saying such nonsense and would be excited. When have the Pistons had a 2 guard who could defend and actually provide help to other players? If you watched the game, then tell me how many times a Philly 2 guard that Singler was responsible for tried to drive to the basket? That happened zero times with Singler on the floor. I believe the two players Singler guarded only scored two baskets all night. So we have to go way back to Joe Dumars to find any Piston who played defense at Singler's level. I got tired of reading about all the potential trades the Pistons could make over this past summer on this forum with so many Piston fans wanting to throw in Kyle Singler as a after thought. Those of us who knew Singler were worried that Joe Dumars might actually make that mistake after giving away Affalo and Budinger. It is so refreshing to watch smart basketball players wearing the Piston uniform. And you don't think much of Kyle Singler. That is almost funny.

[Grizz3]

Cool Breeze Don ... I was elated when I saw Singler starting at SG .. I was depressed when I heard it was only because Stuckey had the flu ... Everyone played better with Singler starting ... And I didnt know the college background of Singler so thank you for filling us in on that .. Great POST! Does Frank get it? I dont think so .. Keeping the Vets happy is more important than doing what is best for the Pistons ... If I were GM, I would make Jmax and Stuckey come off the bench ... Drummond and Singler would start ... Best chemistry .. Best for young player development .. has to be the principles guiding this team .. LFrank is a bum ... who cannot coach but will blame the players if his coaching strategies EFF up the game .. .

[cool breeze]

While I have been so critical of Maxiell the undersized power forward trying to hold his own against the giants, last night was a different matter. Jason Maxiell played a great basketball game from start to finish. He played especially good on defense. The matchup was a good one for Maxiell. He played hard and didn't make many mental mistakes and played weak side defense really well. This is a good lesson. We as fans should be critical of defective play but we also need to see the team the way it really is rather than the way we want it to be. The players have had a tough time so far with only one good night which was last night. Our players played with some real character against Philly and I am so happy for them. If players play the right way, we should support them 100%. Last night Maxiell was a Piston hero who didn't get much notice by many fans. Show me more Jason!

[Oracle]

Don, I couldn't agree more!

I don't know how you could watch that game and fail to see just how good Singler is, and this is coming from someone that wrote him off on day one!

Is he the best athlete? No, but IMO, he's as, or more athletic than Prince, the guy he SHOULD replace! As a side note, I do agree with you that Prince is now playing very well, but you have to admit he has a very mixed start of the season.

Singler just seems to do everything right, and he has a sweet reliable stroke all the way out to 3pt land! Wherever he's at, this kid is going to be a valuable piece.

Jason Maxiell was a FORCE last night! That's very good news for us if he stays here, and even better news if we can get a trade going. JMax would be a very valuable big off the bench for a contender, and a package of Prince & Maxiell is looking like gold now!

As lemonpen said, Philly played awful! They couldn't shoot, they couldn't convert their free throws, and had numerous defensive lapses, but we didn't let them off the hook, and that's how you win.

We just need to do that against better teams(which Philly will be).

[WTF]

First, I never said Singler played bad I said I would rather see Singler replace Prince.

Secondly, I have no intention get remotely excited about this 1st win no matter how good the team might have looked playing last night. Really call me when they run off 8 straight wins as easily as they did with the 8 straight loses.

Lastly I stand by my comments that this would have been a more meaningful victory if both English and Drummond played significant minutes oppose to the combine 12 minutes they did. I was more impressed by the play of Knight then any other player.

No Don I didn't watch game number 9, but I have seen 1 through 8 and as Sebastian stated Singler no Larry Bird and neither is he a SG. What he is and have been since the season started is a better option than Prince at SF. Obviously Singler is your favorite, but don't go over-stating by having any comparison to Bird otherwise Joe and Frank are bigger ass-holes than I think for not starting him.

I think Singler is a very good player with a High Basketball IQ and great potential. But by no stretch of the imagination should he be replacing Stuckey as SG no matter how bad Stuckey sucks at the moment. Please come back down to reality on this because had Stuckey not been ill Singler don't start. It's not like Frank came to some conclusion to sit Stuckey in place of Singler. Why not start English at SG and start Singler in place of Tay?

[WTF]

Also if Maxiell isn't trade well before the trade deadline like right after the Thanksgiving Holidays than we have done a great disservice to both the team and Drummond.

[Oracle]

I guess I'm getting lost here, how did Larry Bird get into this conversation about Singler?

What are you guys talking about? Last I looked there are a shit load of levels between a major superstar like Bird/Magic/Jordan/Zeke, and the Darko types.

So why would anybody leap to that wierd and strange of a comparison?

I said the kid had a LOT of potential, NEVER said he was there, and classified him as a valuable piece... where's Bird in that?

Oh, and by the way, the LARGEST praise I gave him was that he could become a 2nd tier star! Was Bird a 2nd tier star?

Why the Singler hate?

[deusXango]

I think Singler is a very good player with a High Basketball IQ and great potential. But by no stretch of the imagination should he be replacing Stuckey as SG no matter how bad Stuckey sucks at the moment. Please come back down to reality on this because had Stuckey not been ill Singler don't start. It's not like Frank came to some conclusion to sit Stuckey in place of Singler. Why not start English at SG and start Singler in place of Tay?

Whoa, big hoss, I think Don and Oracle are on to something here, for the very observation you made; Stuckey is the dumbest, most selfish, and reckless player in the starting lineup. You m'man Wise, but I got to differ from you on this one...if Kravtsov started last night, and performed like Singler did, I would say he's a better candidate at SG than Stuckey is. Remember, in the span of his awful play during the first 8 games, he complained about his role as SG (he needed the ball in his hands more to be effective). Singler didn't replace Prince in the starting lineup, he replaced Stuckey, and in doing so, he had a greater impact on the starting unit than the great Maxiell did last year (if for only one night). On the side of hope I'd be for taking a longer look at last nights lineup; the problem I had was trying to instigate Maggette into the rotation at the expense of English. We didn't notice his uselessness, because it was a win, but there is no sane reason to remove English from the rotation (if we're playing the money players, why ain't we playing CV?).

The stupid sh!t that's going to bite us all, not matter what side of this we're on, is Lil' Larry is gonna put Stuckey right back in the starting lineup as soon as he can, and recent history proves that Stuckey will play, even if he's physically unfit to perform. To me that's selfish and grandstanding to no good purpose. It's that type of selfishness that has me through with Stuckey, and asinine decision making that leaves me without any respect for Lil' Larry. Kyle Singler has made one helluva statement for playing time as our starting SG...at least let him play, until he begins to suck like his predecessor.

[Oracle]

BTW, on Singler, I don't think he can guard the SG position at all, and he'll struggle at SF, but on fewer nights, so I look at him as a Prince replacement, not a Stuckey replacement.

I agree with whoever it was that said we need a Jerry Stackhouse level star at the 2 or the 3 to be competitive. Say what you will about Stack, but he would put the team on his back, and could get to the FT line late in games.

I was hoping Stuckey would get to that level, but it's clear, at least so far, that he's not that good a player.

On a lighter note, I just had to pass this along, it cracked me up. When you get to the page, scroll down and see the video. Poor Women, I don't think they have anything like this for them, LOL!

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Grizz2]

Wise: Why not start English at SG and start Singler in place of Tay? and Drummond deserves more PT ...

Strong agreement .. yet with a bit of hedging .. Should Singler be our SF or SG? I will be honest and that I dont see a clear answer on this .. Right now ... so far .. he is better than Stuck or Prince .. as far as how he has played in the real games .. BUT ...Singler does make the team better .. Stuckey? He is erratic in 2 ways .. (1) .. he only plays well once in a blue moon . and (2) he seems to cause the offense to stand around and watch him dribble around .. stops the O dead in its tracks and then gets stuffed or throws up (while we throw up) a wild shot ..

One thing I do know .. Singler should start ahead of Prince and / or Stuckey ... He is a leader who makes the team better .. Full Court ..(makes the right play on both sides of the court. Whole Team Player (makes the team better).. Since Stuckey sucks great big monkey balls right now .. I would put Singler at SG ... but . in the long run .. he belongs at SF... Would love to get English in there at SG or SF because I think he has it as a player but not if we dont play him ..

Frank and / or Joe may rightfully believe you can push a player too soon and destroy his confidence ..(Perhaps but not till you get over 20 minutes a game ) Wanna know what else can detroy a young player's confidenc? RIDING THE EFFIN PINE .. far more probable than playing too much ..

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