The way things are right now!

[Oracle]

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[merc]

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Might add some background music

[Grizz2]

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Might add some background music

Is that Nebraska? Not much happening .. but training camp will be here in another month .. I honestly cant remember the last time I was looking forward to a season like this ... where the team is rebuilding, and there was no painful play off exit last season yet you feel like things are on the move forward ... Maybe 1983?

[Murph]

Whatever our combined hopes are for the future, you just know that Lil' Larry won't allow Maggette ($10.5 million), Villanueva ($7.5 million), and his boy Maxiell ($5 million) sit the bench with Middleton now. Joe badly needs to make another trade, involving at least 2 players, before training camp begins. We stand at the threshold of a real rebuild effort, and this season shouldn't be about Lil' Larry proving what a good coach he is through how many wins he can squeeze out of some middle of the road grizzled vets.

DX...good point. As much as I'd like to see Maggette, CV and Maxiell glued to the bench this year, in favor of the younger players, you are probably correct that those three vets will get their minutes.

[deusXango]

Whatever our combined hopes are for the future, you just know that Lil' Larry won't allow Maggette ($10.5 million), Villanueva ($7.5 million), and his boy Maxiell ($5 million) sit the bench with Middleton now. Joe badly needs to make another trade, involving at least 2 players, before training camp begins. We stand at the threshold of a real rebuild effort, and this season shouldn't be about Lil' Larry proving what a good coach he is through how many wins he can squeeze out of some middle of the road grizzled vets.

DX...good point. As much as I'd like to see Maggette, CV and Maxiell glued to the bench this year, in favor of the younger players, you are probably correct that those three vets will get their minutes. [Only admins are allowed to see this image]

Murph, don't you think that Joe Dumars must trade Villanueva? Maxiell and Maggette are both expiring contracts, in addition to having something to offer on the court, whereas Charlie V is sitting his fat ass around for 2 more years, and is more of a liability than an asset. Prince, Bynum, and Charlie V for 2 stadium hot dogs and a big beer; I think Lil' Larry can take it from there.

I'm really intrigued with seeing how the 3-headed monster of a backcourt (consisting of Knight, Stuckey, and English) develops this year. It would be a beautiful thing to see English get the chance and PT denied Vernon Macklin last year. But I digress; bring in Greivis Vasquez, a 6'6" PG to pair with English coming off the bench, and we suddenly have a well balanced, formitable, young team. I've a sneaking suspicion that Lil' Larry is better suited to leading this type of team as opposed to a collection of "entitled" veterans.

[deusXango]

Anyone that thinks Joe Dumars overvalues the talent on his team may be right; for those that feel that we have no one of trade value is definately wrong. The balancing point is whom you're willing to trade vs. who you're trading for; most teams are open to trades if it's a win-win situation.

With a trade partner like New Orleans a win-win would be Jason Maxiell (expiring contract and a paint presence to pair with "The Unibrow") for Greivis Vasquez (whose departure would give Austin Rivers beau coup PT). Both team needs are met. A starter for a bench player; we need a 6'6" PG more than a 6'6" PF, and Maxy is gonna play his a$$ of for another contract.

Tay and Daye for draft picks and a spot for Big Ben? I'd rather have him around for one more year than Maxiell and he could offset the negative influence of having a disenchanted Villanueva in the locker room. Ben is a real veteran presence. We can always use draft picks. Maxiell replaced by Wallace, and Daye replaced by Vasquez...little trades that will make us a little stronger and a lot more competitive.

[Sebastian]

Anyone that thinks Joe Dumars overvalues the talent on his team may be right; for those that feel that we have no one of trade value is definately wrong. The balancing point is whom you're willing to trade vs. who you're trading for; most teams are open to trades if it's a win-win situation.

With a trade partner like New Orleans a win-win would be Jason Maxiell (expiring contract and a paint presence to pair with "The Unibrow") for Greivis Vasquez (whose departure would give Austin Rivers beau coup PT). Both team needs are met. A starter for a bench player; we need a 6'6" PG more than a 6'6" PF, and Maxy is gonna play his a$$ of for another contract.

Tay and Daye for draft picks and a spot for Big Ben? I'd rather have him around for one more year than Maxiell and he could offset the negative influence of having a disenchanted Villanueva in the locker room. Ben is a real veteran presence. We can always use draft picks. Maxiell replaced by Wallace, and Daye replaced by Vasquez...little trades that will make us a little stronger and a lot more competitive.

Yo DX, I too, believe that Joe will be making a trade or two before the start of training camp. I personally have never been moved by Vasquez' game, but I hear you thinking.

Yeah, I am just waiting to see what move Joe has up his sleeve, as today is the first day (August 26) that WE can move Maggette according to the current CBA.

I, personally, believe that Joe will be moving Maggette in a trade.

[deusXango]

Yeah, I am just waiting to see what move Joe has up his sleeve, as today is the first day (August 26) that WE can move Maggette according to the current CBA.

I, personally, believe that Joe will be moving Maggette in a trade.

Minnesota? Denver? I'd love to have Wilson Chandler, but will "settle" for Derrick Williams; get that piece we need for our starting lineup of the future.

[Grizz2]

Anyone that thinks Joe Dumars overvalues the talent on his team may be right; for those that feel that we have no one of trade value is definately wrong. The balancing point is whom you're willing to trade vs. who you're trading for; most teams are open to trades if it's a win-win situation.

With a trade partner like New Orleans a win-win would be Jason Maxiell (expiring contract and a paint presence to pair with "The Unibrow") for Greivis Vasquez (whose departure would give Austin Rivers beau coup PT). Both team needs are met. A starter for a bench player; we need a 6'6" PG more than a 6'6" PF, and Maxy is gonna play his a$$ of for another contract.

Tay and Daye for draft picks and a spot for Big Ben? I'd rather have him around for one more year than Maxiell and he could offset the negative influence of having a disenchanted Villanueva in the locker room. Ben is a real veteran presence. We can always use draft picks. Maxiell replaced by Wallace, and Daye replaced by Vasquez...little trades that will make us a little stronger and a lot more competitive.

DX ..We have always agreed on so much .. but really ... I do not believe Joe can get squat for many of our old line players ... salaries higher than they are worth ... I guess it is going to be hard to prove that because if there is no trade, you can just say that Joe was over-valuing his players .. Why would a team want a player like Tay who is so passive and cannot create his own shot and well over 30 at 8 mill a season? Daye? A guy who cannot defend or rebound? If these players are so good, why dont we keep them. These guys dont or cant bring it every night ..Bynum and Jmax .. same or worse ... I blame Joe for getting or resigning these players .. I dont blame him for not being able to trade them away .. But it is TRUE we do want these players traded! That does not mean we can though .. Look at Rip Hamilton ... We paid to get rid of him .. and Ben G give a way gave us cap space but we HAD TO GIVE a number one pick to do it .. and take some old guy for a year .. The only way to trade them is for a player another team WANTS to get rid of .. Rasheed Wallace was a gold mine in that sense .. Hope that is what happens again but odds are long ..

[deusXango]

'Yo Grizz, how are 'ya? Listen, there's no argueing the point with you, as your reasoning is sound as always, however, deals are always done in the NBA. Players of less talent, with larger contracts have been moved, and if Joe's gotta get screwed, so what? He made this mess and came before us with some of the damnedest excuses a group of knowledgeable fans has ever heard. If he gets it right and Mr. Gores fires him because of financial irresponsibility, so what.

We've got players that need to be gone by the start of training camp; move as many as possible. We need key pieces for a number of reasons (a starting SF and backup PG, both of whom that plays solid defense), and those pieces should be here by the start of camp. We've gotta start putting wins on the board for the sake of the young'uns fragile psyche, and give up the "Ben Gordon pick" as quickly as possible (the sooner we get that bad taste out of our mouths, the better).

[Grizz4]

DX posted:
'Yo Grizz, how are 'ya? Listen, there's no argueing the point with you, as your reasoning is sound as always, however, deals are always done in the NBA. Players of less talent, with larger contracts have been moved, and if Joe's gotta get screwed, so what? He made this mess and came before us with some of the damnedest excuses a group of knowledgeable fans has ever heard. If he gets it right and Mr. Gores fires him because of financial irresponsibility, so what.

We've got players that need to be gone by the start of training camp; move as many as possible. We need key pieces for a number of reasons (a starting SF and backup PG, both of whom that plays solid defense), and those pieces should be here by the start of camp. We've gotta start putting wins on the board for the sake of the young'uns fragile psyche, and give up the "Ben Gordon pick" as quickly as possible (the sooner we get that bad taste out of our mouths, the better).

DX, Doing fine thanks! That is a very good point about getting the deadwood OUTTA D Town ... and that we the fans SHOULD put SOME pressure on Joe D to get the team roster as right as it can be .. If Joe can even get 1 DEADWOOD player off the team, would consider that a big step forward .. I argued against the Ben G trade and that it hurt to give up the pick .. BUT NOW I have to admit it helps the team chemistry and atmosphere to get a player who would only get in the way of the team's progress out of here.. Now I see that the BG trade was a good trade for the most part and probably wont hurt us too much .. If Joe can do it once with Ben G (bad defense, high salary), he can do it again ... Lets hope to God JD can ..

[lemonpen]

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[lemonpen]

You're gonna have to get it from the scrolling headlines. For some reason the link keeps leading to the Jerebco article.

[Murph]

Sure, everyone's mouthing the company line that the Pistons are playoff contenders this year. Everyone from the owner to the GM to the coach to the players are all looking to make the playoffs as a realistic goal.

But how realistic is it? By my count, there are 5 shoo-ins to make the EC playoffs...Miami, Chicago, Indiana, NY and Phily. And there are 2 teams that will most likely make the playoffs...Atlanta, even though they lost Joe Johnson...and Boston, even though they're aging fast.

Orlando has no shot at making the playoffs.

So realistically, there is probably 1 playoff spot open, and IMO, the most likely contenders for that playoff spot are the Pistons and Nets, with the Bucks being a long, long shot.

Now, Brooklyn certainly has the big name stars (Derron Williams, Joe Johnson and Gerald Wallace), and they have the payroll (2nd highest in the NBA), and they have the visability ( I can imagine that the NBA and David Stern would love to see the big market Brooklyn Nets become a successful franchise in their first year).

So in order to make the playoffs this year, the Pistons are either going to have to out-play the Nets, who are loaded, or hope that Boston or Atlanta collapse, due to old age or the loss big name stars. Hmmm...that's going to be a tall mountain to climb.

So while I'd love to see the Pistons make the playoffs this year, I'm not holding my breath.

On the other hand, if we miss the playoffs, retain our 2013 protected 1st round pick...and then draft a future star SF, like Alex Poythress, Otto Porter or CJ Leslie...well that wouldn't be bad either.

[Oracle]

Sure, everyone's mouthing the company line that the Pistons are playoff contenders this year. Everyone from the owner to the GM to the coach to the players are all looking to make the playoffs as a realistic goal.

But how realistic is it? By my count, there are 5 shoo-ins to make the EC playoffs...Miami, Chicago, Indiana, NY and Phily. And there are 2 teams that will most likely make the playoffs...Atlanta, even though they lost Joe Johnson...and Boston, even though they're aging fast.

Orlando has no shot at making the playoffs.

So realistically, there is probably 1 playoff spot open, and IMO, the most likely contenders for that playoff spot are the Pistons and Nets, with the Bucks being a long, long shot.

Now, Brooklyn certainly has the big name stars (Derron Williams, Joe Johnson and Gerald Wallace), and they have the payroll (2nd highest in the NBA), and they have the visability ( I can imagine that the NBA and David Stern would love to see the big market Brooklyn Nets become a successful franchise in their first year).

So in order to make the playoffs this year, the Pistons are either going to have to out-play the Nets, who are loaded, or hope that Boston or Atlanta collapse, due to old age or the loss big name stars. Hmmm...that's going to be a tall mountain to climb.

So while I'd love to see the Pistons make the playoffs this year, I'm not holding my breath.

On the other hand, if we miss the playoffs, retain our 2013 protected 1st round pick...and then draft a future star SF, like Alex Poythress, Otto Porter or CJ Leslie...well that wouldn't be bad either.

Well, anything is possible, but is it probable?

It's way too early to tell if we have a shot. Of course the homer in me has felt that there was a chance, and I still say that we should ay least challenge for a spot, but we have a lot of questions to answer on our own.

1. Can we generate the chemistry between the youngsters necessary to challenge.
2. Is Frank the right coach for this young team, and will he grow them, or use the vets in a quest to get cheap wins.
3. What moves will be made by the Feb deadline, and how will they impact the team.

Then there's always the health issue. The teams you named each have different roades to the playoffs. Anything can happen, but if we assume the best for all teams, we'll have to conceed that the Pistons have a tough road... and that's a good thing!

[deusXango]

If we make the playoffs it's going to be due to the coaching, and this is the trust that I have in Lil' Larry; the vets and "money" players will be featured in his rotation, and the local media types will be in full support mode. The only youngsters that'll get any extended playing time will be Monroe, Knight, and possibly English (I no longer consider Stuckey to be a youngster). I am not in agreement with this lineup by any means but, this is how he'll probably roll out his troops:

Monroe @ center, Maxiell @ PF, Prince @ SF, Stuckey @ SG, and Knight @ PG. Expect Slava to backup Monroe, Villanueva/Jerebko to backup Maxiell, Maggette to backup Prince, and Maggette/English to get the guard minutes.....I don't expect Lil' Larry to go any deeper than 10 men in his regular rotation but, God I hope I'm wrong. With this lineup we don't see very much of Drummond ('cause he's so "raw"), Singler or Middleton (there's not enough minutes), or Daye (he's just not getting it (in practices that we the fans don't see)). Barring injury the young'uns don't play, unless it's a blowout.

The damnedest thing is we still may not make the playoffs and our youth is sitting around or running the risk of injury playing in the D-league. Drummond don't play we've started messing with his head; Singler don't play, he's regretting coming back to the states; Daye's career is being thrown up on the junk pile if he don't play. The only player who might positively benefit from a year of inactivity is Middleton; having a year with Arnie Kander will do wonders for his career in the long run.

For all that's lusting for the playoffs (remember when some of us were bored making them year after year because we didn't win a championship?), this is probably what we have to look forward to in 2012-13.

[Murph]

If we make the playoffs it's going to be due to the coaching, and this is the trust that I have in Lil' Larry; the vets and "money" players will be featured in his rotation, and the local media types will be in full support mode. The only youngsters that'll get any extended playing time will be Monroe, Knight, and possibly English (I no longer consider Stuckey to be a youngster). I am not in agreement with this lineup by any means but, this is how he'll probably roll out his troops:

Monroe @ center, Maxiell @ PF, Prince @ SF, Stuckey @ SG, and Knight @ PG. Expect Slava to backup Monroe, Villanueva/Jerebko to backup Maxiell, Maggette to backup Prince, and Maggette/English to get the guard minutes.....I don't expect Lil' Larry to go any deeper than 10 men in his regular rotation but, God I hope I'm wrong. With this lineup we don't see very much of Drummond ('cause he's so "raw"), Singler or Middleton (there's not enough minutes), or Daye (he's just not getting it (in practices that we the fans don't see)). Barring injury the young'uns don't play, unless it's a blowout.

The damnedest thing is we still may not make the playoffs and our youth is sitting around or running the risk of injury playing in the D-league. Drummond don't play we've started messing with his head; Singler don't play, he's regretting coming back to the states; Daye's career is being thrown up on the junk pile if he don't play. The only player who might positively benefit from a year of inactivity is Middleton; having a year with Arnie Kander will do wonders for his career in the long run.

For all that's lusting for the playoffs (remember when some of us were bored making them year after year because we didn't win a championship?), this is probably what we have to look forward to in 2012-13.

You know, as crazy as that suggested rotation is, I don't doubt that that's what we'll see. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Lil Larry started Monroe at center and JMax at PF...and let Drummond rot on the bench, doing a Darko immitation.

If that happens, I'll be the first one to grab the pitch-forks and the torches to run Lil Larry out of town.

[Oracle]

Larry can't possibly be that stupid. for three very good reasons!

1. Any sane person would recognize where the future of this franchise lies, and delaying the start of that is lunacy. However, if that isn't incentive enough, I've got two more that are KILLER!

2. Joe Dumars will blow a doughnut sized hole in Larry Frank's arse if he doesn't play both Drummond and Slava, and put Monroe in his natural position at PF! Coaches can be independent to a large extent, that extent STOPS when the GM can't live with his crap!

3. And as Fred Sanford says, "This is the BIG one". Gores is backing Joe, not Frank in this one, and if youu piss off the owner, your fate is sealed. Frank is young enough to resurface in another good job, but he's really on thin ice, and needs to make this thing work.

The bottom line is that it's unlikely that we'll see that lineup at all, and if we do get it, it'll be just to kick things off in preseason.

Unless Drummond is really bad(raw), you MUST get him involved early and often! Live with the mistakes! Remember how bad monroe looked? I was almost ready to call FAIL on that pick until he suddenly "Got It"!

[deusXango]

Larry can't possibly be that stupid.

So Oracle, if we open the regular season with that lineup you agree that Lil' Larry is stupid? Gores said he wanted the playoffs and I don't think he cares how that's accomplished (and secretly, neither does Joe). I hope that whatever the outcome of the season is about, we end up with Laimbeer coaching this team; this team seems tailor made for a coach like Bill Laimbeer.

[Grizz2]

Larry can't possibly be that stupid.

So Oracle, if we open the regular season with that lineup you agree that Lil' Larry is stupid? Gores said he wanted the playoffs and I don't think he cares how that's accomplished (and secretly, neither does Joe). I hope that whatever the outcome of the season is about, we end up with Laimbeer coaching this team; this team seems tailor made for a coach like Bill Laimbeer.

Hey .. Did someone say Laimbeer will be the head coach ??? !! Sounds great but....

despite my omnipresent willingness to tear the establishment apart at every juncture ... the word from the announcers doing summer league games (which I am assuming is Joe's view) is that Drummond will start from day 1. Yes, I may be assuming way too much but .. that is what they said the Pistons said ... Makes sense to me and makes me hopeful as hell ..

[WTF]

If we make the playoffs it's going to be due to the coaching, and this is the trust that I have in Lil' Larry; the vets and "money" players will be featured in his rotation, and the local media types will be in full support mode. The only youngsters that'll get any extended playing time will be Monroe, Knight, and possibly English (I no longer consider Stuckey to be a youngster). I am not in agreement with this lineup by any means but, this is how he'll probably roll out his troops:

Monroe @ center, Maxiell @ PF, Prince @ SF, Stuckey @ SG, and Knight @ PG. Expect Slava to backup Monroe, Villanueva/Jerebko to backup Maxiell, Maggette to backup Prince, and Maggette/English to get the guard minutes.....I don't expect Lil' Larry to go any deeper than 10 men in his regular rotation but, God I hope I'm wrong. With this lineup we don't see very much of Drummond ('cause he's so "raw"), Singler or Middleton (there's not enough minutes), or Daye (he's just not getting it (in practices that we the fans don't see)). Barring injury the young'uns don't play, unless it's a blowout.

The damnedest thing is we still may not make the playoffs and our youth is sitting around or running the risk of injury playing in the D-league. Drummond don't play we've started messing with his head; Singler don't play, he's regretting coming back to the states; Daye's career is being thrown up on the junk pile if he don't play. The only player who might positively benefit from a year of inactivity is Middleton; having a year with Arnie Kander will do wonders for his career in the long run.

For all that's lusting for the playoffs (remember when some of us were bored making them year after year because we didn't win a championship?), this is probably what we have to look forward to in 2012-13.

DX I'm going to give Fat Joe the benefit of the doubt and say that he moves at least 3 of these 5 players (CV,Tay, JMax, Daye and Bynum) before the season starts hopefully all 5 are gone. I'm thinking that lineup will go more like this Monroe @ PF, Slava @ center, Maggette @ SF, Stuckey @ SG and Knight @ PG. But I wouldn't at all be surprised if CV to many of you all horrors is neither traded or amnestied and possibly end up starting next to Monroe.

[WTF]

Larry can't possibly be that stupid.

So Oracle, if we open the regular season with that lineup you agree that Lil' Larry is stupid? Gores said he wanted the playoffs and I don't think he cares how that's accomplished (and secretly, neither does Joe). I hope that whatever the outcome of the season is about, we end up with Laimbeer coaching this team; this team seems tailor made for a coach like Bill Laimbeer.

Lil Larry has to know that JMax and Mags will be gone by trade deadlines so I don't see him committed to a lineup or rotation that will give either a ton of minutes. The only way Drummond doesn't get minutes is if he's really bad from the onset. IMO Monroe, Knight, Tay and Stuckey alone are good enough to carry this team to an 8th seed Lil Larry just have to figure out how to use Slava, Drummond, JJ, English, CV and Singler in the rotation. I don't think Lil Larry should go beyond the 9 players I've mentioned.

[WTF]

Sick and tired of the MJ comparisons, please ESPN and others just stop it. Lebron name needs to stop coming up in these ill-advised surveys and polls. Fuck No! Lebron shouldn't be in a Space Jam II, Fuck No! he's not better than MJ at age 27.

Here is Lebron's problem, his Punk Ass isn't accomplishing his success in a Cleveland uniform. Enough Said!!!!. I'm sorry people but Lebron doesn't have the heart of MJ, heck he doesn't even have the heart of Kobe who IMO is more comparable to MJ in my book.

This coming season may be as boring as last season, so if the Pistons don't bring some excitement I won't be watching games. Thank God for the NFL..GO LIONS!!!

This is something else ESPN sucks on. I don't know which was worst last season. All the sucking on Tebow's or the sucking on Lin, either case it was sickening and really who gives a shit?

[cool breeze]

I just finished reading a great book relating to the NBA in the 1970s. It seems that most of the Laker players were going to movie star hosted parties on a nightly basis when the Laker team was not traveling. it was estimated that at least 90% of the Laker players were doing coke like the rest of the guests of those wild parties that lasted sometimes all night long. Imagine the coaching staff trying to communicate with those players. The fans except for the star attendees of the Laker games had no idea what was going on in real life and were so hopefull that their kids might get an autograph after spending hundreds of dollars for an evening at the Forum. I imagine some of our Piston players were doin the same thing but maybe they were not getting high as often as the Laker players. Can any of you believe that some of our Piston players who were on the team two seasons ago were not in that mode. They sure played like they were functioning in the games like they were on some type of weird trip that didn't involve playing basketball.

Now flash forward to this current team and the makeup of the players. I like them. The core group of young guys seem to have their heads on right. I doubt that guys like Brandon Knight will allow some of the weaker minded players to get away with the crap that happened two seasons ago. That is all I want. Just give an honest hard effort each and every game and try to improve in the areas where you are weak. Try to develop that positive team chemistry which will involve playing tough defense. The team played better in that area last season and we can expect a lot of improvement this season. If the Pistons miss the playoffs but start earning the respect of the fans, that will be huge going forward. Like one of the other posters said previously. Many of us Piston fans were not impressed the last time the Pistons made the playoffs. That team was a joke. It meant nothing. Will other quality team start fearing the Pistons? Can that happen at times this season?

[Grizz2]

Sick and tired of the MJ comparisons, please ESPN and others just stop it. Lebron name needs to stop coming up in these ill-advised surveys and polls. Fuck No! Lebron shouldn't be in a Space Jam II, Fuck No! he's not better than MJ at age 27.

Here is Lebron's problem, his Punk Ass isn't accomplishing his success in a Cleveland uniform. Enough Said!!!!. I'm sorry people but Lebron doesn't have the heart of MJ, heck he doesn't even have the heart of Kobe who IMO is more comparable to MJ in my book.

This coming season may be as boring as last season, so if the Pistons don't bring some excitement I won't be watching games. Thank God for the NFL..GO LIONS!!!

This is something else ESPN sucks on. I don't know which was worst last season. All the sucking on Tebow's or the sucking on Lin, either case it was sickening and really who gives a shit?

Well Cynic .. see your point on this better now ... then found this article thanks to our site news feed ..

As ESPN.com continues its countdown of the top 500 players in the NBA, several of the Pistons expected to contribute this upcoming season have popped up in the 200s.

The Worldwide Leader ranked the top 500 players in the league last year to pass the time during the lockout. They decided to re-do the list, including this year's rookie crop. One hundred four of the network's NBA writers, commentators, analysts and contributors ranked the players on overall quality.

When we last checked on the list, we noticed that Pistons forward Charlie Villanueva was rated No. 262 and Detroit's top draft pick, Andre Drummond, was rated 277.

Since then, several more Pistons have been revealed. At No. 245 is forward Austin Daye, just one spot behind teammate and point guard Will Bynum. A little higher on the list, at No. 241, is Jason Maxiell, who started a few games last season for Detroit.

Checking in at No. 221 is one of the newest Pistons, swingman Corey Maggette. On Friday, Nos. 201-220 were published and forward Jonas Jerebkko was 206, one spot ahead of former Piston Amir Johnson.

Other ex-Pistons/players with local ties who were recently ranked: No. 218 Jordan Crawford (Detroit CMA); No. 226 Ekpe Udoh (Michigan); No. 235 Shannon Brown (Michigan State); No. 240 Tracy McGrady.

TOTALLY USELESS AND INCORRECT ... that is ESPN ... wow ... I mean Drummond is lower than Daye or CV and Jmax? How many GMs would take those players before Drummond .. No one sane and so ESPN is full of mostly just crazy swill propagandists .. not sports journalists ...

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