The Lost year with several more lost years coming

[Phil-Good]

[quote="Murph"]Sparma...yes, can you imagine if the Pistons had drafted Haliburton?

I will say this. The Pistons had 3 first round picks. They got 2 out of 3 right. Don't get me wrong, Hayes is a major BUST but 2 out of 3 is not bad at all.

When I saw Hayes video, first thing I said is, he too damn slow!! Now he got a bum hip!

It's over for Hayes. It will be 3 or 4 years before you see anything positive from Hayes. I know people want to wait and give him some time, I'm booking it now, HAYES IS A BUST!!

I didn't even have Hayes in my top 20 picks! Hayes was not in my top 10 list of PG available!!

It's OK. Detroit will get the opportunity to do it again next draft. And the good thing about Hayes is, somebody will be willing to give up a first round pick to see what the kid can do. I would jump-ship on Hayes ASAP!!!!

[Murph]

Sparma...yes, can you imagine if the Pistons had drafted Haliburton?  Next to perhaps LaMelo, he's the best player in the draft.  The Hayes pick is going to set this franchise back a whole year in it's rebuilt.  Can you image if:

1.  The Pistons had drafted Halliburton.
2.  The Pistons had fired Casey and hired Kenny Atkinson.
3.  The Pistons had benched Griffin.

With Atkinson as coach, you'd be looking at a starting lineup of Halliburton, Jackson, Bey, Grant and Plumlee.  With backups of Rose, Wright, Svi, Griffin and Stewart.  And wih Rose placed on the trading block for a 1st round pick or a young PG.

That team would be winning way more games, much more fun to watch and well on it's way toward completing the rebuild in record time. All they have to do is listen to me!

[Sparma]

This story isn't going to dry up any time soon. From SI's Jeremy Woo (https://www.si.com/nba/2021/01/19/nba-rookies-surpassing-expectations):

"3. The most impactful rookie so far has pretty clearly been Haliburton, who has made the Kings eminently watchable late at night. His immense understanding of the ebb and flow of a game has allowed him to step in right away, and while the Kings can’t guard anyone, they’re a much better team with him in the game. Haliburton is getting harder and harder to keep off the floor, having already earned Luke Walton’s trust in crunch time. He was the No. 4 prospect on our final Big Board, and his fall to the 12th pick is old news by now. Still, you’re probably going to hear about it for a while.

For what it’s worth, my understanding of the situation is that his realistic range started with Atlanta at No. 6, but that Haliburton’s camp actively worked to land him on a team where he could play major minutes immediately (which looks like a smart decision). The sense I’ve gotten in conversations with various sources was that the Pistons, Knicks and Suns always preferred other players. Haliburton was in play for the Wizards at No. 9 before Deni Avdija slipped. The Hawks and Spurs already had crowded backcourts. Sacramento happily capitalized, and Haliburton has already shed the prospect label, warranting far more immediacy as a piece who is clearly already important to team success.


It’s hard to precisely describe all the things he’s naturally good at, but Haliburton is a savant. His unorthodox shooting mechanics were never that big of a deal for two reasons: his range is legitimately deep, and he gets the ball out of his hand rather quickly. Whether he was a true point guard never really mattered in a league where teams are relying on multiple-handler attacks. De’Aaron Fox is actually an ideal long-term partner, with the ability to get into the paint on drives, kick the ball out and allow Haliburton to attack and make plays with extra space after defenses have already collapsed or rotated. He’s already one of the smartest, most technical passers in the NBA, and he hardly ever turns the ball over. The next step will be getting stronger, creating his shot more effectively and applying more downhill pressure on the rim—if Haliburton is able to do that efficiently, he’s going to be a star. If not, he’s still going to help you win a lot of games."

[Sparma]

Don: "I see Griffin doing more of the little things on offense and defense this year and like it as opposed to forcing so many contested shots. Hopefully he is also teaching the young guys in practice and off the court."

Blake had a good game in the win against Miami, then played crummy in the loss last night. I've had the games on this year, but watch them intensely only on and off. As mentioned, I've lost hope that Blake has any positive trade value this year. We'd need to include a trade asset to get him out. I do hope with you, Don, that he's having a positive impact on the young guys beyond the games. During the games, it's crazy to give him so many minutes at the expense of seeing what we have in young guys like Sekou. PER's an imperfect stat, but it tells the story of Blake's season very well. He's respectable with conventional stats (12.9, 5.9, 4.3) but his PER is slightly over half of what it is for his career (11.6 to 21.9)! That career average is outstanding, but this year's number is well below league average (15).

Concerning Rose, I disagree with you, Murph, that he's "quickly losing market value." He got off to a slow start, with balls sliding out of his hands routinely, and sloppy play generally, along with moments of brilliance. Word was that he hadn't touched a basketball in, what, eight months, and it showed. Unlike Blake though, he is rounding into shape. He was excellent in the win in Miami, then very good in yesterday's loss. His PER for the season is at star level (19.9), higher than his career average (18.3)! That stat's in accord with my eye test.

I think he could and should be traded for a solid return, in part because he's on a modest, and expiring, contract. I'm getting the uneasy feeling though that there's a good chance he won't be traded. Killian averaged an undistinguished but passable (for a rook) 21 minutes. Delon Wright's been okay, but if Rose left there'd be a real pinch at PG. Beyond that, Rose actually does help make the team "competitive" and that seems to be so important to the present brass that I think there's no better than a 50% chance that they'll trade him, even though they clearly should. Fingers crossed that they'll pull the trigger, in accord with Weaver's dramatic statement "My clip will be empty."

[Murph]

This rumor has D. Rose going to the Kings for Buddy Hield. Also included would most likely be Wright and Sekou. I would only want Detroit to agree with this trade if our team could also exchange our number one pick for the Kings pick in this last draft but that is not going to happen. Buddy provides the consistent outside scoring threat that the Pistons need but this player would come with a reputation of causing chemistry issues. Does Buddy contribute on the defensive end?I have my doubts about Sekou but it appears other Piston fans have hope he can become a star player. Why not send him down to the minor league so he can be the key player and get mega minutes rather than have him sitting on the bench in the NBA?

I would take a deep breath and turn down this trade idea and stick with our young core. Piston fans seem convinced that the head coach is not on board with the long term plan to develop the young talent on this roster. There is pressure on the coach to win games. Perhaps our GM should have a talk with Casey so they are both on the same page. As far as I am concerned, we still don't know what we have in these young athletic players who are now getting reduced minutes. I thought one of the sleeper young guys the Pistons picked up was Josh Jackson. He still needs to put on more weight and avoid more injuries but he has the high basketball IQ and athletic body I really like. This group of Pistons still have not played enough games together to make any judgment as to the total team potential. I like coach Sweeney a lot and hope he gains more control of who plays and who doesn't play and suspect that Casey knows that he has a good group of assistant coaches he can rely on for advise. It appears to me that the overall team chemistry has improved from the past years. Let's hope the players can hold on to that and keep fighting to remain competitive as a team. Meanwhile look for another trade partner to move Rose before it is too late.

That's an interesting trade proposal. And in general, I would go for a trade like that, but I'm not sure Buddy Hield is the guy we want to trade all those players for. I have reservations about Hield.

I wish we had traded Rose for Kuzma last year when we had the chance. Rose is quickly losing market value.

[cool breeze]

Don....I found that trade rumor online.  First, it was published in USA Today, which is not a very sophisticated source for NBA rumors.  

Second, it was published before the season began.  There have been a couple of developments in the early weeks of the season.  One, Julius Randle is having a breakout year.  Somehow Tom Thibideau has gotten through to Randle, and he’s passing the ball more and playing smart, unselfish basketball.  

And two, Griffin is looking really, really old.  We were all hoping that Griffin might return to some level of productive basketball after missing most of last season.  Sadly that has not been the case.  As Phil stated, the Pistons need to buy out Griffin as soon as possible, and Griffin needs to retire.  He’s done.

In light of this, that trade rumor seems ridiculous.

Thanks for that info Murph. You know a lot more than I do about what is going on in the NBA. I only follow the Pistons so that was a bogus trade idea for sure but I sure was excited about it. I am not sure I agree that the Pistons should pull the trigger and offer Blake a buyout now rather than keeping him on the roster this year in a role as a player coach with reduced minutes. Play him for 5 minutes in the first quarter and in crunch time for the last 4 minutes perhaps. Teach the young guys all the tricks he knows and help keep the team chemistry positive. Blake has some value to this young team. The coach needs to adjust his thinking about the minutes he is giving to this former All Star. But perhaps I am wrong.

I am enjoying Women's college basketball this winter. The PAC12 has some really competitive teams and the PAC12 Network is showing most conference games. Just glad college sports were not shut down because of COVID. Sad what has happened to high school sports in States that are ruled with an iron fist. Imagine being a senior in high school and told that football, basketball, soccer, baseball, track, volley ball, golf and even band have been cancelled because of COVID when science tells us that the chance of these kids getting sick is almost zero. I can understand in increase in suicide rates for teenagers for sure. Tough being a parent in these times as well. We all need some good news but I guess I was hoping for too much thinking Blake could be traded and the coach would rely more on the youngsters and less on the older vets.

[cool breeze]

This rumor has D. Rose going to the Kings for Buddy Hield. Also included would most likely be Wright and Sekou. I would only want Detroit to agree with this trade if our team could also exchange our number one pick for the Kings pick in this last draft but that is not going to happen. Buddy provides the consistent outside scoring threat that the Pistons need but this player would come with a reputation of causing chemistry issues. Does Buddy contribute on the defensive end?I have my doubts about Sekou but it appears other Piston fans have hope he can become a star player. Why not send him down to the minor league so he can be the key player and get mega minutes rather than have him sitting on the bench in the NBA?

I would take a deep breath and turn down this trade idea and stick with our young core. Piston fans seem convinced that the head coach is not on board with the long term plan to develop the young talent on this roster. There is pressure on the coach to win games. Perhaps our GM should have a talk with Casey so they are both on the same page. As far as I am concerned, we still don't know what we have in these young athletic players who are now getting reduced minutes. I thought one of the sleeper young guys the Pistons picked up was Josh Jackson. He still needs to put on more weight and avoid more injuries but he has the high basketball IQ and athletic body I really like. This group of Pistons still have not played enough games together to make any judgment as to the total team potential. I like coach Sweeney a lot and hope he gains more control of who plays and who doesn't play and suspect that Casey knows that he has a good group of assistant coaches he can rely on for advise. It appears to me that the overall team chemistry has improved from the past years. Let's hope the players can hold on to that and keep fighting to remain competitive as a team. Meanwhile look for another trade partner to move Rose before it is too late.

[Murph]

Don....I found that trade rumor online. First, it was published in USA Today, which is not a very sophisticated source for NBA rumors.

Second, it was published before the season began. There have been a couple of developments in the early weeks of the season. One, Julius Randle is having a breakout year. Somehow Tom Thibideau has gotten through to Randle, and he’s passing the ball more and playing smart, unselfish basketball.

And two, Griffin is looking really, really old. We were all hoping that Griffin might return to some level of productive basketball after missing most of last season. Sadly that has not been the case. As Phil stated, the Pistons need to buy out Griffin as soon as possible, and Griffin needs to retire. He’s done.

In light of this, that trade rumor seems ridiculous.

[cool breeze]

Sparma:
Thanks for filling me in on a number of things especially the Pistons 2021 first round pick. Also you make perfect sense that trading Blake next season if he is still able to play would be a good strategy if draft picks would need to be involved in a trade this season. I see Griffin doing more of the little things on offense and defense this year and like it as opposed to forcing so many contested shots. Hopefully he is also teaching the young guys in practice and off the court. So with the Pistons current record it seems like a sure thing that we will retain a first round pick for next summer's draft. That makes me feel better. Also great reporting on the Miami game and Phil as well.

Murph:
I have never experienced the alleged pleasure of smoking cigs or other more powerful smoke. I didn't make up the trade idea involving NY. Found it on the web with other NBA trade rumors. Not to take anything away from Blake Griffin, but this trade with the Clippers has to be the worst trade in Piston history. Losing productive players and a high first round draft pick for Griffin made Blake a one man show placing him in an impossible position. He has handled it well and we have to hope he can stay healthy and not resort to bully ball which will put him back on the injured list.

[Phil-Good]

Good L. Let's get back on track. Losing games and get this TANK back on track.

In my Opinion, Detroit should offer Blake a buyout. It won't happen this season because he has a opt in but by the beginning of next season, he should get a nice buyout and move on with the end of his career.


I listen to the game on Mia broadcast and they were dogging Blake. Says he looks old, slow, he can't jump anymore and he can't move anymore.


Seku. This kid needs to learn how to play harder and go crazy out there on the floor. Scoring is not everything. Playing hard is what gets coaches attention. Diving on the floor and showing some fire and balls!! Kid needs to improve his motor.


Lonzo Ball could be had in a trade. I wouldn't offer any first round picks but I would make a offer to see if N.O. would be willing to unload Ball for a small return.

[Sparma]

The Pistons played their best game against Miami the last time out, and they topped that level of play in the first quarter, with Plumlee playing great and incredible shooting.  They got up to a 19 point lead in the first quarter!  They managed to have a lead at the half, but lots went awry as they lost the game.

The guy I'd consigned to waivers a few weeks ago was fantastic: Wayne Ellington shot 7-11 from 3.

Still, an ugly, ugly game for those hoping for a genuine rebuild: Blake with 36.5 minutes, Sekou with 10 (admittedly, he played badly when he was in there); Ellington with 27.5 minutes, Bey with 3.5 (did he get hurt while I walked the dog?).  And so forth.  Wow.

It definitely looked like a winnable game, and Ellington was great, so I guess Casey's pressing for the win is understandable.  I'd sure love someone in there who got the big picture.

In a way it's the kind of game I hope for: "competitive" but a loss.  That heavy, heavy reliance on the vets becomes maddening though.

[Phil-Good]

I got a few points about the Pistons tonight.

1: Head Coach. When the right young coach becomes available, Detroit should jump on it! Casey is a nice guy but Detroit needs to get the right young coach to match where the team is headed. And I have a feeling, the Pistons top assistant might be the next man up soon.

2. Hayes. Piston fans, don't be shocked if the Pistons swing a big trade in next summers draft and dump Hayes, for a pick. I would get off of Hayes as FAST AS POSSIBLE!! This kid is a BUST! This kid should be on the trade block; bum hip and all...


2. Seku: Blake is standing in this kid's way. Also, coach Casey is standing in this kid's way. This kid needs 25 to 30 minutes a game. I see the skills, I see enough to find out what I really have on my hands. You will never find out playing the kid 10 to 15 minutes a game. NEVER!!

3. Svi. Bad job of development so far by Casey. Ellington is taking away very important development minutes from Siv. Svi has been told to shoot the ball. Shoot, shoot, shoot. But in reality this kid can put the ball on the floor and do more then just shoot. This is on Casey as he is not handling Svi well at all. This is another guy who needs 25 to 30 minutes a game. Also, Svi needs to be told to stop rushing his shot. Relax and shoot with calm, steady, mechanics.

4. Blake. If Troy can dump Blake this season, I would consider him the GM of the year. Case closed!

5. 2021 Trades. I can't wait to see what Troy does during the trade deadline. I would be on the telephone with Portland right now. What in the F do you want for that young PG Simmons?

[Phil-Good]

I got a few points about the Pistons tonight.

1: Head Coach. When the right young coach becomes available, Detroit should jump on it! Casey is a nice guy but Detroit needs to get the right young coach to match where the team is headed. And I have a feeling, the Pistons top assistant might be the next man up soon.

2. Hayes. Piston fans, don't be shocked if the Pistons swing a big trade in next summers draft and dump Hayes, for a pick. I would get off of Hayes as FAST AS POSSIBLE!! This kid is a BUST! This kid should be on the trade block; bum hip and all...


2. Seku: Blake is standing in this kid's way. Also, coach Casey is standing in this kid's way. This kid needs 25 to 30 minutes a game. I see the skills, I see enough to find out what I really have on my hands. You will never find out playing the kid 10 to 15 minutes a game. NEVER!!

3. Svi. Bad job of development so far by Casey. Ellington is taking away very important development minutes from Siv. Svi has been told to shoot the ball. Shoot, shoot, shoot. But in reality this kid can put the ball on the floor and do more then just shoot. This is on Casey as he is not handling Svi well at all. This is another guy who needs 25 to 30 minutes a game. Also, Svi needs to be told to stop rushing his shot. Relax and shoot with calm, steady, mechanics.

4. Blake. If Troy can dump Blake this season, I would consider him the GM of the year. Case closed!

5. 2021 Trades. I can't wait to see what Troy does during the trade deadline. I would be on the telephone with Portland right now. What in the F do you want for that young PG Simmons?

[Phil-Good]

I got a few points about the Pistons tonight.

1: Head Coach. When the right young coach becomes available, Detroit should jump on it! Casey is a nice guy but Detroit needs to get the right young coach to match where the team is headed. And I have a feeling, the Pistons top assistant might be the next man up soon.

2. Hayes. Piston fans, don't be shocked if the Pistons swing a big trade in next summers draft and dump Hayes, for a pick. I would get off of Hayes as FAST AS POSSIBLE!! This kid is a BUST! This kid should be on the trade block; bum hip and all...


2. Seku: Blake is standing in this kid's way. Also, coach Casey is standing in this kid's way. This kid needs 25 to 30 minutes a game. I see the skills, I see enough to find out what I really have on my hands. You will never find out playing the kid 10 to 15 minutes a game. NEVER!!

3. Svi. Bad job of development so far by Casey. Ellington is taking away very important development minutes from Siv. Svi has been told to shoot the ball. Shoot, shoot, shoot. But in reality this kid can put the ball on the floor and do more then just shoot. This is on Casey as he is not handling Svi well at all. This is another guy who needs 25 to 30 minutes a game. Also, Svi needs to be told to stop rushing his shot. Relax and shoot with calm, steady, mechanics.

4. Blake. If Troy can dump Blake this season, I would consider him the GM of the year. Case closed!

5. 2021 Trades. I can't wait to see what Troy does during the trade deadline. I would be on the telephone with Portland right now. What in the F do you want for that young PG Simmons?

[Phil-Good]

I got a few points about the Pistons tonight.

1: Head Coach. When the right young coach becomes available, Detroit should jump on it! Casey is a nice guy but Detroit needs to get the right young coach to match where the team is headed. And I have a feeling, the Pistons top assistant might be the next man up soon.

2. Hayes. Piston fans, don't be shocked if the Pistons swing a big trade in next summers draft and dump Hayes, for a pick. I would get off of Hayes as FAST AS POSSIBLE!! This kid is a BUST! This kid should be on the trade block; bum hip and all...


2. Seku: Blake is standing in this kid's way. Also, coach Casey is standing in this kid's way. This kid needs 25 to 30 minutes a game. I see the skills, I see enough to find out what I really have on my hands. You will never find out playing the kid 10 to 15 minutes a game. NEVER!!

3. Svi. Bad job of development so far by Casey. Ellington is taking away very important development minutes from Siv. Svi has been told to shoot the ball. Shoot, shoot, shoot. But in reality this kid can put the ball on the floor and do more then just shoot. This is on Casey as he is not handling Svi well at all. This is another guy who needs 25 to 30 minutes a game. Also, Svi needs to be told to stop rushing his shot. Relax and shoot with calm, steady, mechanics.

4. Blake. If Troy can dump Blake this season, I would consider him the GM of the year. Case closed!

5. 2021 Trades. I can't wait to see what Troy does during the trade deadline. I would be on the telephone with Portland right now. What in the F do you want for that young PG Simmons?

[Phil-Good]

I got a few points about the Pistons tonight.

1: Head Coach. When the right young coach becomes available, Detroit should jump on it! Casey is a nice guy but Detroit needs to get the right young coach to match where the team is headed. And I have a feeling, the Pistons top assistant might be the next man up soon.

2. Hayes. Piston fans, don't be shocked if the Pistons swing a big trade in next summers draft and dump Hayes, for a pick. I would get off of Hayes as FAST AS POSSIBLE!! This kid is a BUST! This kid should be on the trade block; bum hip and all...


2. Seku: Blake is standing in this kid's way. Also, coach Casey is standing in this kid's way. This kid needs 25 to 30 minutes a game. I see the skills, I see enough to find out what I really have on my hands. You will never find out playing the kid 10 to 15 minutes a game. NEVER!!

3. Svi. Bad job of development so far by Casey. Ellington is taking away very important development minutes from Siv. Svi has been told to shoot the ball. Shoot, shoot, shoot. But in reality this kid can put the ball on the floor and do more then just shoot. This is on Casey as he is not handling Svi well at all. This is another guy who needs 25 to 30 minutes a game. Also, Svi needs to be told to stop rushing his shot. Relax and shoot with calm, steady, mechanics.

4. Blake. If Troy can dump Blake this season, I would consider him the GM of the year. Case closed!

5. 2021 Trades. I can't wait to see what Troy does during the trade deadline. I would be on the telephone with Portland right now. What in the F do you want for that young PG Simmons?

[Phil-Good]

I got a few points about the Pistons tonight.

1: Head Coach. When the right young coach becomes available, Detroit should jump on it! Casey is a nice guy but Detroit needs to get the right young coach to match where the team is headed. And I have a feeling, the Pistons top assistant might be the next man up soon.

2. Hayes. Piston fans, don't be shocked if the Pistons swing a big trade in next summers draft and dump Hayes, for a pick. I would get off of Hayes as FAST AS POSSIBLE!! This kid is a BUST! This kid should be on the trade block; bum hip and all...


2. Seku: Blake is standing in this kid's way. Also, coach Casey is standing in this kid's way. This kid needs 25 to 30 minutes a game. I see the skills, I see enough to find out what I really have on my hands. You will never find out playing the kid 10 to 15 minutes a game. NEVER!!

3. Svi. Bad job of development so far by Casey. Ellington is taking away very important development minutes from Siv. Svi has been told to shoot the ball. Shoot, shoot, shoot. But in reality this kid can put the ball on the floor and do more then just shoot. This is on Casey as he is not handling Svi well at all. This is another guy who needs 25 to 30 minutes a game. Also, Svi needs to be told to stop rushing his shot. Relax and shoot with calm, steady, mechanics.

4. Blake. If Troy can dump Blake this season, I would consider him the GM of the year. Case closed!

5. 2021 Trades. I can't wait to see what Troy does during the trade deadline. I would be on the telephone with Portland right now. What in the F do you want for that young PG Simmons?

[Sparma]

Don, I think you're referring to the 1st rounder Detroit gave up while acquiring a 1st rounder at #16 this year. That trade ended up involving other moving parts, including Christian Wood and Trevor Ariza. It was heavily protected to begin with, then became more so. It will likely be moved back a number of years until it's a low enough pick.

Griffin's looking like a negative asset this year, one who can't be traded without adding a pick as sweetener. No thanks. But I'm not sure that will keep Weaver from moving Blake at a cost (please, not a 1st rounder), as eager as he is to act, even when moving out 2nd rounders like candy and taking on multiple contracts to stretch. Blake's looked okay, but slow as molasses and very earth bound. Maybe he'll perk up as the season progresses? Next year, with an expiring contract, Griffin will be moveable for some positive return. Let's hope we have the patience to wait and make the prudent move.

Rose is tradeable this year, but has looked out of practice. He had a really good game last night. With Killian out, he'd probably need to bring a PG in return. Heard a rumor of a return of Lonzo Ball, but with a 1st rounder and Svi going out, along with Rose. No thanks! Rose by himself should be able to garner a good return, possible a late 1st rounder, or maybe a prospect and a 2nd rounder (if contracts can be made to match).

@Murph - I totally agree about the treatment Drummond got from the Pistons! It's the way you would and should treat a malcontent or a trouble maker, but Drummond was none of these things!

I feel the same way as I felt about KCP, if he gets to the right situation, he'll be devastating, he dropped 33 points, 23 rebounds on the Knicks last night. We kept asking him to add more to his game... what a dumb move. All he really needed was to get the FT's right, and just defend, rebound and dunk the damn ball, his greatest strengths.

If he lands on a team with a big 2 or 3, that'll be his only job, they don't need him going ISO on anybody, or driving to the hoop. He might not have accepted that role earlier in his career, but he will now! The sad fact is that Drummond has suffered from poor coaching and a directionless organization with a rookie owner who's still learning.

Checking out trade rumors I found that Cleveland is looking to move Drummond. Can anyone guess why? Looks like they are convinced that AD does not fit their needs for future success. AD needs to find a home on some team that has a Labron James on it. He would push Andre like he has never been pushed. AD was finally forced to move from Detroit for good reason. He is not a player any GM would want when the team is trying to rebuild. The Pistons needed to make a total rebuild and they are in the process of doing just that. Once Blake is traded, our Pistons are going to be a young athletic team that can play the game at a very fast pace. Everyone will be running from baseline to baseline with maximum effort. As a Piston, AD did not get himself in good enough physical condition to keep up with the pace of the current NBA game and that really showed in the Pistons last playoff matchup against the Bucks. The man AD was supposed to be defending beat AD down the court in transition in all 4 games. AD could not make the necessary rotations on the Bucks half court set. It is hard to believe that Piston fans have such short memories. AD is now running back on defense with Cleveland not jogging like he did as a Piston. I can't wait until we add more hard core players who have exceptional motors. I love what our new GM is doing now. The Pistons will be winners again. Keep the faith.

[Murph]

Have you seen the year Julius Randle is having? He’s having a breakout season. He’s purring up 23 ppg, 11 rpg and 7 apg. He’s going to be an All Star this season, and he’s only 26. Why in the world would the Knicks trade Randle for that over paid has-been, Blake Griffin.

[cool breeze]

@Murph - I totally agree about the treatment Drummond got from the Pistons! It's the way you would and should treat a malcontent or a trouble maker, but Drummond was none of these things!

I feel the same way as I felt about KCP, if he gets to the right situation, he'll be devastating, he dropped 33 points, 23 rebounds on the Knicks last night. We kept asking him to add more to his game... what a dumb move. All he really needed was to get the FT's right, and just defend, rebound and dunk the damn ball, his greatest strengths.

If he lands on a team with a big 2 or 3, that'll be his only job, they don't need him going ISO on anybody, or driving to the hoop. He might not have accepted that role earlier in his career, but he will now! The sad fact is that Drummond has suffered from poor coaching and a directionless organization with a rookie owner who's still learning.

Checking out trade rumors I found that Cleveland is looking to move Drummond. Can anyone guess why? Looks like they are convinced that AD does not fit their needs for future success. AD needs to find a home on some team that has a Labron James on it. He would push Andre like he has never been pushed. AD was finally forced to move from Detroit for good reason. He is not a player any GM would want when the team is trying to rebuild. The Pistons needed to make a total rebuild and they are in the process of doing just that. Once Blake is traded, our Pistons are going to be a young athletic team that can play the game at a very fast pace. Everyone will be running from baseline to baseline with maximum effort. As a Piston, AD did not get himself in good enough physical condition to keep up with the pace of the current NBA game and that really showed in the Pistons last playoff matchup against the Bucks. The man AD was supposed to be defending beat AD down the court in transition in all 4 games. AD could not make the necessary rotations on the Bucks half court set. It is hard to believe that Piston fans have such short memories. AD is now running back on defense with Cleveland not jogging like he did as a Piston. I can't wait until we add more hard core players who have exceptional motors. I love what our new GM is doing now. The Pistons will be winners again. Keep the faith.

[cool breeze]

First off I didn't know that the Pistons do not have a first round pick in 2021. How did that happen anyone know? It appears that NY is interested in Blake and they seem willing to part with Randle. It is going to be difficult to move Griffin to many teams because of his large contract. However, the Knicks could take it on and need a guy like Blake to help teach the talented young talent how to win. Randle had a good season last year and would be a good fit with this current group of young Pistons. As it seems there is no other teams calling about Blake, I think this would be a good move for the Pistons. The talk is that detroit would get Randle and a first and second round pick in the deal. Who knows if this rumor is true but it sounds exciting. Detroit would not only pick up a decent young player, draft picks, and have a lot of money to spend for more free agents.

Has anyone heard anything about a trade involving Rose? I can't find anything but then the lack of interest might be due to the way he has played in this messy COVID season.

[Sparma]

Another limitation of Casey's, beyond pounding the vets into the ground to eke out wins, is that his offense adds little beyond individual qualities of players.  A good offense should be more than the sum of its parts.  GS when it was rolling or Showtime are paradigmatic examples, but pedestrian offenses should still be able to be more than the sum of their parts too.    

Some examples of just rolling with what players can do, rather than reaching beyond for a more collective outcome.

Jerami Grant can use his amazing athleticism around the basket to score.  Do that [why not work on him passing to exploit space created. He did have six assists yesterday in an outstanding overall game yesterday, so maybe there's hope].  Admittedly, that may be a bad example in that he may well be the most improved player in the NBA (which I think comes primarily from opportunity/ heavy usage rather than newly acquired skills).

Blake's strong and can pound the ball in the direction of the basket, then try to pass.  Do that thing you do.  [As long as Blake's on the team, I thing there's a place for his thing, but it should be in limited minutes, adding a facet to the offense instead of making it predictable.]

Derrick Rose can penetrate.  Do that thing you do.  [Here, I'm in agreement.  Let Rose do his thing, but in limited minutes.  And trade him as soon as a good offer comes in.]

Bey, Ellington, and Svi can shoot.  Do that.  [That may be the nature of the beast, but at least add more of a motion offense that accentuates opportunities for 3 point shooters.]

Part of the problem is that lack of a real PG, but Killian wasn't helping the problem I'm trying to articulate.  Maybe he will in the future??

The one guy who does make the team go/ move beyond what he does individually is Plumlee, who excels at passing into open spaces.  But then, that's simply something he can do, not something drawn out of him by the coaches.

The guy who suffers the most from this lack of a coherent, additive, plan is Sekou.  He did receive a beautiful pass as he streaked up court yesterday, but a lot more of that kind of thing could happen.  He needs a niche within a complex offensive plan, and he's not getting it.  [and he'll like be on his way out of town as another failed prospect in a couple of years].

There's real quality on the team.  Probably not enough to win consistently without some serious offensive creativity and innovation from the coach.  That's not coming from Casey, and probably never will.

[Sparma]

I thought maybe Casey would adjust, and be a good facilitator of the youngsters. In some ways he has been, with Sekou as the biggest exception, and yesterday Svi. Still, I don't get it either, this great effort to win by way of the vets when that's neither a timely strategy, nor one that that work well. Frustrating guy.

One thing I give the guy credit for is bringing Ellington to life. Watching the preseason, I thought he was done. Yesterdays, I saw a story that he'd be a good target for the Lakers. Maybe for a second rounder. Giving Ellington starts is still insane, but there might be a silver lining if we can trade him.

btw, read that Drummond, with that incredible game of the other day you mentioned, passed Hakeem as the third most often double-doubler! Impressive!

Checking that, thee seems to be something off about the list that I checked though, with Wilt, Russell, Thurmond, and Kareem not being listed. They must not have kept track then.

Wait, elsewhere, Wikipedia does list Wilt as the all time leader. In any event, awfully impressive by Drummond.

Casey is going to screw this up, isn't he?  He's going to play all of his vets and sit all of his young players, and try to win as many games as possible, isn't he?  He's going to play Griffin and Rose and Ellington and end up playing like .350 basketball.  Oh, he'll still miss the playoffs, but the Pistons will end up with the 5th to 7th draft pick again.

This isn't a rebuild.  This is the same old, same old crap that we've been watching for 9 years since Gores bought the team.

Geesh.  You can't make this stuff up.  

[Murph]

Casey is going to screw this up, isn't he?  He's going to play all of his vets and sit all of his young players, and try to win as many games as possible, isn't he?  He's going to play Griffin and Rose and Ellington and end up playing like .350 basketball.  Oh, he'll still miss the playoffs, but the Pistons will end up with the 5th to 7th draft pick again.

This isn't a rebuild.  This is the same old, same old crap that we've been watching for 9 years since Gores bought the team.

Geesh.  You can't make this stuff up.  

[Sparma]

Finally an easy victory for the Pistons (Heat w/o Butler, admittedly).

Lots of good contributors, including Blake and Rose, but Grant's all round excellence again stood out. Kelser pointed out how unusual his blocks from behind without fouling are, and also praised him for a beautiful fourth quarter moving resulting in a three. Someone commented that Grant may have been double teamed for the first time in his career, last in the game.

Sekou streaked up court earlier and scored as the beneficiary of a nice pass, then scored again not long after. Then largely disappeared; I see he did get 16 minutes in, which must be his most in a while.

Casey can still drive me crazy. Svi buried w/o explanation (granted he's off his usual 3 point excellence), then immediately scored a 3 in the one minute he played.

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