Top Five

[BallinD]

An experimental lineup from the future ready to be a rotational fixture Now. Not for wins, per se, but for fun frolic and 2-way athleticism we can roll with:
Josh, Saben, Svi, Sekou, Stew, while liberally sprinkling in Saddiq. Or swap him for Svi or Josh.

Fast, fun, and disruptive defensive fury is their calling card. Who let the dogs out! Casey?

[Sparma]

That's more like it.

Rose and Blake out, with Embiid and Simmons in and playing outstanding.  Recipe for a blowout?  No, it went down to the last seconds.

Spread out scoring, with varied play.  Ellington the top scorer, yes, with 17, but Svi and Sekou next with 15 and 13.  Both at or around 18 minutes, as was Bey.  Watched most of the second half with the Philly announcers, and they were praising Svi and the Pistons generally.  Svi played some rough and tough D too.  He was easily the best Piston in +/-. Maybe he won't be down to 3 seconds any time soon?  Or maybe Casey thinks the 3 seconds triggered this improvement?

Also, very nice bounce pass by Johnson to Stewart, and Stewart played Embiid tough in the late going.

Losing's what this team needs to do, but this brand of losing is a lot easier to stomach than the vet dominated losses of recent vintage.

Will Casey learn anything from this showing?  Seems doubtful, but stay tuned with the Blake and Rose show returning.

[BallinD]

In a rebuild year, three seconds for Svi?! in an overtime loss. There’s a great defensive HC (HeadCasey) behind this.

A “Good Defensive Coach” like HeadCase knows how to cool off a hot 🥵 player with the best of them. Like $ money in the bank. 5 game example:

1. Svi gets 18 pts in 18 minutes vs Bucks, finally breaking out of his early shooting slump, but HeadCase says not so fast. I’m a great defensive coach. I know how to cool a hot hand...
2. Next, Svi gets 2 min vs Miami, hits his only shot, 3pt.
3. Next, Svi gets 0 pts in 13 mins vs Mia, but 4 rebs, 4 assts 2 steals, no shots!? (Must have been playing with D Rose.
4. Next, Svi gets 12 mins, 6 pts, vs Atl, 50% from field and from 3pt.and 1 steal
5. Next, Casey’s defensive skills vs his own players shines through vs Houston, Svi gets 3 seconds = no offensive output. Mission Accomplished!

No Wood [23.5/10.8], no Wall (18.6/4.7/5.1), no matter.

Ellington with 6/10 in 32 minutes, so there's that.

And Svi got in for three seconds!

I'm so sick of rooting for this team. At least I'm rooting for them to lose, so that part's going well.

[Murph]

Please indulge me on my theoretical musings.  But if Kerr had never gone to GS, and never teamed up with Steph Curry and Trey Thomson, then would the game of basketball have been fundamentally changed by the 3 point shot?  

I think we are all in agreement that Curry, Thomson, Kerr and the Warriors revolutionized the game.  I mean the 3 point shot is now dominant at every level of basketball from the NBA all the way down to 8th grade AAU.  Would that have happened without Kerr?  

I think the answer is, probably, but it would have taken a lot longer for it to happen.

I agree, the Warriors success has radically changed the offensive approach of many coaches.  Too many IMO.  With those coaches encouragement (us included) teams fire indiscriminately from beyond the arc.  I wonder how many imitators recognize the contributions of Kerr.  Beyond having two of the most uniquely skilled three point shooters ever in Stef and Clay, at the height of their success GS displayed a level of ball & player movement like no one I have ever seen.  That's on Kerr.  I swear they could create open shooting opportunities in a phone booth.  
Murph, would you say any of their imitators have duplicated Golden States success, even once.

Lemon...that's an interesting question.  I'm not sure GS was unique in their 3 point efficiency.  That's a really broad statisical study.  I guess the basic question would be has scoring and efficiency gone up throughout the league, with the advent of the 3 point shot being the most important play in basketball.  My quess is yes, scoring has gone up significantly league wide since GS became a dynasty.

And it's not just the NBA, it's at almost every level of basketball going down to about the 7th or 8th grade, when kids get strong enough to jack up 3 pointers relatively efficiently.  I don't know if you've been to any AAU games or high school games recently, but the kids basically play the same way as in the NBA.  They jack up 3s, they score on isos and they run the fast break.  That's it.  There is virtually no half court plays being run anymore at all.

Don't get me wrong.  I hate this syle of play.   Like many of us on this forum, I grew up watching baskteball pre 3 point line.  And I came of age watching the Bad Boys and the "Going to Work" crew, that depended on tough, smart defense.  

The 3 point shot is an unfortunate development in basketball, but I'm afraid it's here to stay.

I be curious as to your thoughts.


On a side note, apropos to nothing, my son's HS basketball season finally got under way last week.  He's a senior and team captain, and the only starting white kid for a HS that heavily recruits from inner cities throughout the area.  His teammates love to play with him.  He's an undersized, 6'4 center.  He's the Mason Plumlee of his team.  He sets picks, dives for balls, passes well, plays tenacious defense and does all the little things to help a team win.

His claim to fame was holding Mac Etienne, who's 6'10 and 225 lbs and who will be playing at UCLA next year, to 12 ponts and 6 rebounds in a close loss.  By the end of the game, Etienne was so frustrated and tired that he was passing out of the post to perimeter players.  

https://uclabruins.com/news/2020/12/21/ucla-mens-basketball-welcomes-mac-etienne.aspx

[Sparma]

No Wood [23.5/10.8], no Wall (18.6/4.7/5.1), no matter.

Ellington with 6/10 in 32 minutes, so there's that.

And Svi got in for three seconds!

I'm so sick of rooting for this team. At least I'm rooting for them to lose, so that part's going well.

[Sparma]

Murph:  "But if Kerr had never gone to GS, and never teamed up with Steph Curry and Trey Thomson, then would the game of basketball have been fundamentally changed by the 3 point shot?"

Lemonpen: "Beyond having two of the most uniquely skilled three point shooters ever in Stef and Clay, at the height of their success GS displayed a level of ball & player movement like no one I have ever seen. That's on Kerr. I swear they could create open shooting opportunities in a phone booth."

Interesting question by Murph, and great description by Lemonpen of GS's offense.

Kerr has been a great innovator.  He may even have succeeded with the Knicks!

I see him as combining two existing strategies in a super-successful way.

Didn't he tentatively agree to coach the Knicks with Phil Jackson as GM, but Phil released him from that tentative agreement because he got a better opportunity with GS?

In any event, at that time he was presented as a fine fit with his ex-coach Phil because of his knowledge of, and commitment to, an updated triangle offense.  The triangle didn't really focus on the three with the Bulls or the Lakers, but did stress pass and motion, and included a place of importance for specialists like Kerr (best ever career 45.4% from 3!!).  

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the three was first emphasized with the Phoenix Suns, Steve Nash (career 42.8% from 3), and Mike D'Antoni in 2004-'05.  In D'Antoni's "7 Seconds or Less" Offense, players were encouraged to let it fly, quickly.

A little later, in 2007, Daryl Morey became Houston's GM.  Morey was big in analytics, which strongly encouraged 3s and close range shots (especially if you could draw the foul too) over the mid-range shot (of, eg, Rip Hamilton).  "Moreyball" really splashed once Harden went to Houston in 2012, exemplifying the offensive principles of analytics guy Morey. Checking, I see that Harden shoots 36.3% from 3 for his career, a bit lower this year, right around the league average from 3 during that time, I'd think. His true greatness relative to others comes from his ability to get fouled and get to the line. Not pretty, but quite effective. Whereas Kerr and Nash were great, great shooters, and it was pretty clear they needed to be given opportunities, Morey stressed giving many, many opportunities to a good, not great, shooter from distance because that seemed like the right analytics strategy. That was a massive innovation, I think. Clearly, D'Antoni was happy to comply with this strategy once he arrived in 2016.

As I interpret things, Kerr helped get the three going as a fantastic shooter himself, but by the time he became GS's coach in 2014 at least a couple of team's were heavily committed to shooting 3s already.

My expectation at the time was that Kerr would bring the new and improved Triangle offense to GS.  He sorta did in updated form in bringing a passing, motion, offense to elevate the same players that Mark Jackson had, but he also was fortunate enough to have two all-time great shooters on GS, as Lemonpen points out.

I see his innovation as being combining an updated version of the offense he'd known with massive emphasis on 3 point shooting (beyond the beginnings the Bulls and Lakers had made in that direction).

Also, I agree with Lemonpen that the imitations can be overdone, and unsuccessful.  The basic principle of Moneyball isn't to do things a certain way, but to find the competitive edge.  In the NBA, I don't suppose an analytics person would ever swear off 3s, along with close range shots (and fouls).  But when everyone starts looking for the next Steph, chances are you'll end up with a 3rd or 4th rate imitation who can't help you beat competitors with better versions.  When that happens, I think the Moneyball principle becomes looking for what gives you the edge.  Unfortunately going huge with the likes of LeBron and Brow isn't easily imitated well either!

[lemonpen]

Please indulge me on my theoretical musings.  But if Kerr had never gone to GS, and never teamed up with Steph Curry and Trey Thomson, then would the game of basketball have been fundamentally changed by the 3 point shot?  

I think we are all in agreement that Curry, Thomson, Kerr and the Warriors revolutionized the game.  I mean the 3 point shot is now dominant at every level of basketball from the NBA all the way down to 8th grade AAU.  Would that have happened without Kerr?  

I think the answer is, probably, but it would have taken a lot longer for it to happen.

I agree, the Warriors success has radically changed the offensive approach of many coaches. Too many IMO. With those coaches encouragement (us included) teams fire indiscriminately from beyond the arc. I wonder how many imitators recognize the contributions of Kerr. Beyond having two of the most uniquely skilled three point shooters ever in Stef and Clay, at the height of their success GS displayed a level of ball & player movement like no one I have ever seen. That's on Kerr. I swear they could create open shooting opportunities in a phone booth.
Murph, would you say any of their imitators have duplicated Golden States success, even once.

[Murph]

Please indulge me on my theoretical musings.  But if Kerr had never gone to GS, and never teamed up with Steph Curry and Trey Thomson, then would the game of basketball have been fundamentally changed by the 3 point shot?  

I think we are all in agreement that Curry, Thomson, Kerr and the Warriors revolutionized the game.  I mean the 3 point shot is now dominant at every level of basketball from the NBA all the way down to 8th grade AAU.  Would that have happened without Kerr?  

I think the answer is, probably, but it would have taken a lot longer for it to happen.

[Sparma]

The Pistons are favored against the Rockets tonight. Is that the first time this year? I can't remember another time.

Christian Wood is out (23.5/ 10., which removes a lot of the game's intrigue.

[Sparma]

Woj on a minor, or major, recent revision to the Covid protocol: players used to be allowed up to two (long term [?!]) friends visiting their hotel room on the road, but not anymore, as of about a week ago. It had been a squishy loophole, but it's been eliminated given the rise in problems.

Troy has to help Casey help himself.

Blake got to go. He is not needed here. Bey don't need mentoring on the court. Off the court, this is why you keep good relationships with retired Pistons like T.Prince, Ben Wallace, Big Shot, RIP, Isiah, Joe Dumars..etc..

Get on the phone and call those guys. Also, the players union should have somebody on 24 hour call to help the young guys with off the court things like housing, p.u.s.s.y appointments, weed runs in states where it's legal, fun bus, after hours workout spots, personal alcohol delivery, all that!

You don't need BLAKE! He basketball old! He basketball run down. Tires are almost bold as hell. Slipping and sliding through that terrible Michigan weather. I wouldn't remember since I moved to Texas almost 10 years ago. You get my point Pistons fans.


IF the Pistons would have won that ATL game, what benefit would that have been for the Pistons? Blake played 99 minutes, Rose did too, so did Plumlee, Wright. Who give a S.H.I.T about those guys, really? two years from now those guys won't be with the Pistons. It's all politics coach Casey playing. He needs to make sure he can get a job after Detroit. And I understand that.

Do him a favor, fire his A.S.S. Let him collect all that stupid money Gores gave him. When the Pistons hired Casey I was like he FREAKING 70 years old. The Pistons are a rebuilding project at best. But it's not my money. F.u.c.k. it!!

[Sparma]

You're probably right on both counts, Murph! For one thing, I can't see Durant joining Stan in GS.

And Carlisle. Wasn't the issue said to be that the owner was upset because he'd offended administrative staff?

Similarly, I'm inclined to agree with those who say that Donavan Mitchell wouldn't have become the player he has had he come to Detroit.

A generalization: during the Gores regime the Pistons have made awful use of resources available to them, or potentially available to them.

Stan van Gundy nearly took the GS job years ago, right, before Kerr?  He wanted more authority though, feeling he'd been left without support in dealing with Dwight Howard.  He preferred the Detroit job to the GS one that was about to lead to a dynasty!!  That alone should win him a spot in the Hall of Shame, unless Zion belatedly manages to rehabilitate Stan's reputation.

All that by way of asking whether there was a time when we had a chance with Kerr?

Beyond that, I wonder if younger coaches might be disposed to be more mindful of the long term than an aging coach?  Is that stereotypical, even if coming from a young senior (a term I learned today)?

In any event, we clearly need the kind of thinking expressed by Kerr.  It's crazy to be working so hard to get the worst record in the league while giving the likes of Blake and (recently) Ellington big minutes.

Stark differences:

Kerr: “The team is learning on the fly. I’ll be very honest. If I had to win a game tomorrow, I wouldn’t start that group. If this was a one time thing I would start a different group and probably got to some different combinations, but this is the team that I wanna see develop a really good defensive identity, and James needs to be out there. Kelly and Andrew need to be together on the wings guarding, you know, LeBron and Kawhi and Paul George and all those guys. So it’s gonna take some time and in the meantime there’s gonna be some growing pains, but I’m okay with it because for us to be great down the road, whether it’s by the end of this year or even next season, James has to develop and Kelly and Andrew have to get comfortable and I’m willing to sacrifice some things here early in the season to get to where we wanna be later on.”

Casey: “Dooo whut?”

Sparma...two things.  First, if SVG had gone to Golden State, the Warrior probably would not have developed into the dynasty that they became.  They would not have made 5 trips to the Finals and won 3 Championships.

And second, if Steve Kerr had come here, he probably would have been fired after 2 or 3 seasons, like Rick Carlisle, and he might not have developed into a HOF Coach.

Like Detroit passing on Carmelo Anthony, SVG taking the Golden State job would have changed the course of NBA history.  Fascinating topic, thank you for raising it.

[Murph]

Troy has to help Casey help himself.

Blake got to go. He is not needed here. Bey don't need mentoring on the court. Off the court, this is why you keep good relationships with retired Pistons like T.Prince, Ben Wallace, Big Shot, RIP, Isiah, Joe Dumars..etc..

Get on the phone and call those guys. Also, the players union should have somebody on 24 hour call to help the young guys with off the court things like housing, p.u.s.s.y appointments, weed runs in states where it's legal, fun bus, after hours workout spots, personal alcohol delivery, all that!

You don't need BLAKE! He basketball old! He basketball run down. Tires are almost bold as hell. Slipping and sliding through that terrible Michigan weather. I wouldn't remember since I moved to Texas almost 10 years ago. You get my point Pistons fans.


IF the Pistons would have won that ATL game, what benefit would that have been for the Pistons? Blake played 99 minutes, Rose did too, so did Plumlee, Wright. Who give a S.H.I.T about those guys, really? two years from now those guys won't be with the Pistons. It's all politics coach Casey playing. He needs to make sure he can get a job after Detroit. And I understand that.

Do him a favor, fire his A.S.S. Let him collect all that stupid money Gores gave him. When the Pistons hired Casey I was like he FREAKING 70 years old. The Pistons are a rebuilding project at best. But it's not my money. F.u.c.k. it!!

Phil...excellent post.  We finally agree.  

I do have a couple of comments.  The NBA union does not need to be helping with personal weed, alcohol and coochie deliveries to the rookies.     The union needs to be counseling these rookies on the dangers of drug and alcohol abuse, and on healthy personal relationships.  


And second, I agree with everything you said about Casey, except I don't think he is just an out of touch old man.  I think Casey was a malevolent force in Detroit who set back this franchise 5 years.  By running Drummond out of town and hitching his wagon to Blake Griffin, Casey has sentenced this franchise to years of being the worst team in the NBA.

Of course, the original sin was trading for Blake to begin with.  Which is why I keep saying over and over, Casey and Gores are dumbasses.

[Murph]

Stan van Gundy nearly took the GS job years ago, right, before Kerr?  He wanted more authority though, feeling he'd been left without support in dealing with Dwight Howard.  He preferred the Detroit job to the GS one that was about to lead to a dynasty!!  That alone should win him a spot in the Hall of Shame, unless Zion belatedly manages to rehabilitate Stan's reputation.

All that by way of asking whether there was a time when we had a chance with Kerr?

Beyond that, I wonder if younger coaches might be disposed to be more mindful of the long term than an aging coach?  Is that stereotypical, even if coming from a young senior (a term I learned today)?

In any event, we clearly need the kind of thinking expressed by Kerr.  It's crazy to be working so hard to get the worst record in the league while giving the likes of Blake and (recently) Ellington big minutes.

Stark differences:

Kerr: “The team is learning on the fly. I’ll be very honest. If I had to win a game tomorrow, I wouldn’t start that group. If this was a one time thing I would start a different group and probably got to some different combinations, but this is the team that I wanna see develop a really good defensive identity, and James needs to be out there. Kelly and Andrew need to be together on the wings guarding, you know, LeBron and Kawhi and Paul George and all those guys. So it’s gonna take some time and in the meantime there’s gonna be some growing pains, but I’m okay with it because for us to be great down the road, whether it’s by the end of this year or even next season, James has to develop and Kelly and Andrew have to get comfortable and I’m willing to sacrifice some things here early in the season to get to where we wanna be later on.”

Casey: “Dooo whut?”

Sparma...two things.  First, if SVG had gone to Golden State, the Warrior probably would not have developed into the dynasty that they became.  They would not have made 5 trips to the Finals and won 3 Championships.

And second, if Steve Kerr had come here, he probably would have been fired after 2 or 3 seasons, like Rick Carlisle, and he might not have developed into a HOF Coach.

Like Detroit passing on Carmelo Anthony, SVG taking the Golden State job would have changed the course of NBA history.  Fascinating topic, thank you for raising it.

[Phil-Good]

Troy has to help Casey help himself.

Blake got to go. He is not needed here. Bey don't need mentoring on the court. Off the court, this is why you keep good relationships with retired Pistons like T.Prince, Ben Wallace, Big Shot, RIP, Isiah, Joe Dumars..etc..

Get on the phone and call those guys. Also, the players union should have somebody on 24 hour call to help the young guys with off the court things like housing, p.u.s.s.y appointments, weed runs in states where it's legal, fun bus, after hours workout spots, personal alcohol delivery, all that!

You don't need BLAKE! He basketball old! He basketball run down. Tires are almost bold as hell. Slipping and sliding through that terrible Michigan weather. I wouldn't remember since I moved to Texas almost 10 years ago. You get my point Pistons fans.


IF the Pistons would have won that ATL game, what benefit would that have been for the Pistons? Blake played 99 minutes, Rose did too, so did Plumlee, Wright. Who give a S.H.I.T about those guys, really? two years from now those guys won't be with the Pistons. It's all politics coach Casey playing. He needs to make sure he can get a job after Detroit. And I understand that.

Do him a favor, fire his A.S.S. Let him collect all that stupid money Gores gave him. When the Pistons hired Casey I was like he FREAKING 70 years old. The Pistons are a rebuilding project at best. But it's not my money. F.u.c.k. it!!

[Sparma]

Stan van Gundy nearly took the GS job years ago, right, before Kerr? He wanted more authority though, feeling he'd been left without support in dealing with Dwight Howard. He preferred the Detroit job to the GS one that was about to lead to a dynasty!! That alone should win him a spot in the Hall of Shame, unless Zion belatedly manages to rehabilitate Stan's reputation.

All that by way of asking whether there was a time when we had a chance with Kerr?

Beyond that, I wonder if younger coaches might be disposed to be more mindful of the long term than an aging coach? Is that stereotypical, even if coming from a young senior (a term I learned today)?

In any event, we clearly need the kind of thinking expressed by Kerr. It's crazy to be working so hard to get the worst record in the league while giving the likes of Blake and (recently) Ellington big minutes.

Stark differences:

Kerr: “The team is learning on the fly. I’ll be very honest. If I had to win a game tomorrow, I wouldn’t start that group. If this was a one time thing I would start a different group and probably got to some different combinations, but this is the team that I wanna see develop a really good defensive identity, and James needs to be out there. Kelly and Andrew need to be together on the wings guarding, you know, LeBron and Kawhi and Paul George and all those guys. So it’s gonna take some time and in the meantime there’s gonna be some growing pains, but I’m okay with it because for us to be great down the road, whether it’s by the end of this year or even next season, James has to develop and Kelly and Andrew have to get comfortable and I’m willing to sacrifice some things here early in the season to get to where we wanna be later on.”

Casey: “Dooo whut?”

[BallinD]

Stark differences:

Kerr: “The team is learning on the fly. I’ll be very honest. If I had to win a game tomorrow, I wouldn’t start that group. If this was a one time thing I would start a different group and probably got to some different combinations, but this is the team that I wanna see develop a really good defensive identity, and James needs to be out there. Kelly and Andrew need to be together on the wings guarding, you know, LeBron and Kawhi and Paul George and all those guys. So it’s gonna take some time and in the meantime there’s gonna be some growing pains, but I’m okay with it because for us to be great down the road, whether it’s by the end of this year or even next season, James has to develop and Kelly and Andrew have to get comfortable and I’m willing to sacrifice some things here early in the season to get to where we wanna be later on.”

Casey: “Dooo whut?”

[lemonpen]

How much longer before all of this development of veterans produces WINS? WTF. The vets aren't winning or improving, so what's the point.

[Sparma]

B-D: "seemingly no plays nor a plan other than: “take the ball and try do something.”"

Well-put, B-D. Casey was a big part of blowing the game. I don't see coaching, let alone imagination.

Trae Young does a lot of solo work too, but he included some beautiful team work on plays where he's get swarmed and hit Capela inside for a dunk.

Superb game by Capela: 27/26 with 5 blocks, including a crucial one from behind on Grant at the end of regulation. First since Shaq in 2004 to put up those numbers, in 2004.

btw, I remember how Joel Embiid used to torch Drummond, but no way does Clint Capela put up those numbers, including many offensive rebounds, against Drummond. I'm pretty sure this is a case of a game that Detroit would have won with Drummond still around.



Well-put, BallinD.

Certainly one of the most skillful stealth tank choke job Casey could have possibly engineered. All Isos all day long down the stretch as the vaunted vets let the lead slip away.  No D. and seemingly no plays nor a plan other than: “take the ball and try do something.”  (If we gotta lose, might as well lose ugly with all Vets. The younguns ain’t ready for this).

Helps to have Plumlee, Blake/Rose, For the Tank.  Sheesh, Casey got the tanking skills down, but you gotta really love his lack of panache.  Hard to engineer a more cumbersome, ponderous, plodding way to close out the game. At least make it look like you’re trying to win.

Yes, he's earned a contributing role this year, just not the leading role that's been given him.  

39 (!?) minutes for him after the 36.5 minutes a couple of days ago.

That reverse by Blake was pretty sweet, he does show flashes!

[BallinD]

Certainly one of the most skillful stealth tank choke job Casey could have possibly engineered. All Isos all day long down the stretch as the vaunted vets let the lead slip away. No D. and seemingly no plays nor a plan other than: “take the ball and try do something.” (If we gotta lose, might as well lose ugly with all Vets. The younguns ain’t ready for this).

Helps to have Plumlee, Blake/Rose, For the Tank. Sheesh, Casey got the tanking skills down, but you gotta really love his lack of panache. Hard to engineer a more cumbersome, ponderous, plodding way to close out the game. At least make it look like you’re trying to win.

Yes, he's earned a contributing role this year, just not the leading role that's been given him.

39 (!?) minutes for him after the 36.5 minutes a couple of days ago.

That reverse by Blake was pretty sweet, he does show flashes!

[Sparma]

Yes, he's earned a contributing role this year, just not the leading role that's been given him.

39 (!?) minutes for him after the 36.5 minutes a couple of days ago.

That reverse by Blake was pretty sweet, he does show flashes!

[Oracle]

That reverse by Blake was pretty sweet, he does show flashes!

[Oracle]

Vets giveth and vets taketh away 

We lost!!!

[Sparma]

I would have loved this game had the youngsters led the way.

Watched in snatches. Young started 1-5 from the FT line, with Kelser opining that he was off. Guess he figured it out. 32 points in the second half (!!) along with a bunch of assists.

Blake with an incredible play (high reverse with English) to get us to 106, which could have been enough.

Thank goodness we can use the losses (whatever Coach Casey may think).

[Oracle]

That would normally be good news, even if we're trying to tank... so why isn't it?

The starting 5(all vets): Grant, Blake, Plumlee, Ellington, Wright... WTF???

First off the bench(6th man): Rose

Yes some youngsters are getting minutes, but sadly, the focus is squarely on the vets and winning over development.

As one article asks: How in the world is Blake earning starter minutes(double standard)???

Now if this is an attempt to showcase the vets we need to trade... so be it!

But if it's anything else, I'm one pissed off poster!

[Sparma]

1) Yes, a huge missed opportunity.  I liked Haliburton, I just like Hayes more.  I was worried about Haliburton's size to defend in the NBA, and a little bit about the funky form of his shot in spite of its success.  Here's the best I can say for myself with regards to Hayes: I watched 10 minutes of video highlights; if I'd watched him as much as I have now (i.e., not all that much), there's no way I'd picked him at 7, he just moves too slowly, with not enough to compensate (eg great shooting) for that.  Someone screwed up whose job it is to assess those things.  It's tough to assess, going up against lesser competition, but still....   They did say things like: he's not athletic.  I should have taken that more seriously!  All that said, he could still make it in the NBA, but he's got a lot of challenges to overcome.

We can already put Haliburton down among our biggest draft regrets, along with Booker and Mitchell.

2) I don't know much about Atkinson, but I'm becoming totally fed up with Casey (3 minutes for Bey?), and am sure that he would have been better than Casey.

3) Benching Griffin?  Yes, the sad thing is that Blake could still have real value to the team as a change of pace and a steadying force (assuming he can't be traded now) if he averaged 20-25 minutes.  So far he's averaging 32.4 minutes!  One weird thing about Casey's heavy usage strategy is that it makes it likely that Griffin will either get hurt (I'm already wondering if he's recovered from the knee banging at the end of the Miami game) or totally exhausted, leading to more clankers off the front rim.  Even if you want Blake as vet to lead, as Casey does, that's not the way to do it.

Sparma...yes, can you imagine if the Pistons had drafted Haliburton?  Next to perhaps LaMelo, he's the best player in the draft.  The Hayes pick is going to set this franchise back a whole year in it's rebuilt.  Can you image if:

1.  The Pistons had drafted Halliburton.
2.  The Pistons had fired Casey and hired Kenny Atkinson.
3.  The Pistons had benched Griffin.

With Atkinson as coach, you'd be looking at a starting lineup of Halliburton, Jackson, Bey, Grant and Plumlee.  With backups of Rose, Wright, Svi, Griffin and Stewart.  And wih Rose placed on the trading block for a 1st round pick or a young PG.

That team would be winning way more games, much more fun to watch and well on it's way toward completing the rebuild in record time.  All they have to do is listen to me!  

[Sponsored content]