While a lot of fans are happy with Dwayne Casey I blame him for the way the Pistons played in the playoffs

[cool breeze]

All season long this coach has had tunnel vision relating to his pet players and the Piston announcers went right along building up the two players that stood out to me as one of the causes of this last loss. I know that I am a back seat driver relating to this criticism of Casey but I have had enough of coaches who create a fake team that has no chance of winning in the playoffs or even in big regular season games against good teams. The two players I single out are really good men off the court. They also play hard and I believe they have reached their potential as players. Drum roll here is comes.

1. Ish Smith is not a playoff caliber point guard or at any other position. I felt for him in this game. The coach has instructed Ish to create offense off the dribble. In regular season games against tired or weak teams Smith's speed really is effective. However, against a tall athletic team like the Bucks, there is no way this coach should have Put Smith on the court. He could not guard any of the Bucks players. But Casey stood on the sidelines watching his ace point guard try to maneuver around the court and it was painful for any Piston fan to watch. It reminded me of Jimmer Nelson playing against the Pistons at Orlando. But what was this coach going to do? He set the Pistons up for failure. early in the season Casey was so in love with Smith that he played both Reggie and Ish together in crunch time. Of course the Pistons lost those games. But any idiot should know that you can't play a guy like Smith for more than 3 minutes a half not be a guy who is the glue of the team playing big minutes in the regular season. Who didn't know that the game was over when Blake went out and Smith and Galloway were out there together at the same time in the 3rd? Casey was out coached. His strategy and player combinations guaranteed that if the Pistons did make the playoffs they would lose every game.

2. Langston Galloway has been Casey's pet player all season long. No matter how badly he played on defense when his shot was not falling, this coach had his back. Other players got a quick hook for any little mistake. Casey lived and died with Smith and Galloway. But what really got me in this last game was how many times Galloway tried to double team and slide off his assigned man when that guy was in the game to shoot 3 point shots. Langston must have forgotten. He wanted to help a teammate but it was the wrong decision when the Bucks offense was designed to get the ball to Langston's man for a 3 point attempt. Casey played small with Smith and Galloway. Luke is always completely ineffective when those two players are on the floor with him. The ball should be in Luke's hands not Smith or Galloway's hands as Reggie Miller pointed out in the first half.

How about this idea for Casey to think about. What if Luke Kennard had been playing point guard in the 3rd when the game slipped away. How about Thomas or Robinson being on the floor instead of Galloway? I bring up Thomas because he is very athletic and can play must better defense than either Galloway or Smith. What if Thomas had been given an opportunity to play the same amount of minutes as Brown this season. Brown has really improved because he has played a lot. Thomas is the forgotten man because Casey was determined to showcase Ish Smith and Langston Galloway. I don't hate those two players. I wouldn't mind if both players got some playing time but unless both of them are scoring a lot of points, it is suicide to play them together for the amount of minutes they played in this last game. I don't blame Andre Drummond for this loss. He was not effective when he played with Smith and Galloway either. But the coach never noticed. He was busy arguing with the refs instead of creating the best team last fall that he could create given what he had to work with. I say that Thomas would have been a really effective player in this playoff series if he had not sat at the end of the bench.

[Oracle]

1. Drummond is even close to being the reason we lose games
2. When anybody starts believing teams can turn it on or off at will. No, you can't judge a team that loses their best by a mile player at the end of the season, and expect it to make any sense. It's not possible to get back to playing the winning brand of ball they were playing when this happens.
3. When this team with ZERO margin for error can survive when Ellington can't hit shots, at the same time that Galloway is bricking and Kennard is a non-factor, and Ish is still dribbling(literally) looking to brick yet another mid range shot.
4. When the coach follows Wise's sage advice and stops pretending to be the Warriors when it's clear they can hit sh!t from deep. When you're in that hole, stop digging, and start going to the rack. But we don't have the slashers that I hope we get this off season.

I understand the frustration and some of the logic. Ugly? Yeah, but seriously, things aren't near as bad as people seem to want to believe it is.

Having said that, this game tonight hopefully should be the most competitive of all.

[cool breeze]

I notice the idea of trading Blake has come up on the forum. Come on we have to be serious here. Tom Gores took on a crazy contract that the Clippers created. Blake has a knee injury and a long history of injuries. Blake Griffin plays an extremely physical style. He has taken a lot of punishment and plays with outstanding courage. Blake has really helped the Pistons in many ways with his leadership. But every GM in the league would laugh at Piston management if they offered Blake. Nobody wants to take on that contract. Only our owner would do it and also include our number one draft pick. Blake is here to stay and I am OK with that because we have at least one player who knows what he is doing on the basketball court. Blake is a real basketball player, not just a specialist that both SVG and Casey seems to be attracted to in a big way. No Dwayne it is not true that all you need is high percentage 3 point shooters. Somebody has to have some brains who has the responsibility to guard the paint. We do not have a high basketball IQ defender or a big man who is even interested in getting himself in good physical condition to provide that much needed job. Blake needs to modify his game for the next two seasons so he can be able to play at all. Unless the owner is willing to pay another team half of Blake's contract, he is not going anywhere.

Lemonpen is a wise poster. He stated that there is going to be a real fight in the front office over what needs to be done. And I believe the debate is going to center on Andre Drummond. This owner has been determined to prop up AD now since he formed this special personal relationship with Dre. The business side seems very clouded relating to Mr. Gores ability to think rationally. It is going to be the Pistons GM trying to convince the owner that this insanity must end. The thing that could affect the final decision might be AD's real value. We have been subjected to so much propaganda since AD arrived that fans and the owner might be shocked when they find out AD's real value to other NGA executives. First the game has changed. No team really can fit in a slow big man with little to no offensive skills who has a long history of lacking a high basketball IQ when it comes to playing defense. At UCONN AD's coaches had AD identified as a player who would not listen to any coaching. He didn't really improve at all as a college player and was always in foul trouble. How many coaches have worked with AD since he became a pro? The answer is many. We have seen games where AD showed that he could play some defense in spirts. In fact he has been outstanding for a few minutes in several games. But his lack of consistency is a habit that he has carried throughout his career. Other GMs know that about him and any playoff caliber team would hesitate to take on AD's contract even if there is only 2 years left. My belief is that our GM is going to be very disappointed in the return AD could draw if his name is placed on the trading block. Maybe the Pistons could get a mid level number one pick and a below average to average center with experience. That is about all fans can hope for so the owner might win out and decide AD is not going anywhere. The owner is a believer in AD so those of you who still admire our big man might be happy. I am tired of watching him play for the Pistons. He is dragging the team down with his contract and lack of consistent effort for a player who makes that much money.

For those of you who believe that AD has a higher value, I would like to hear which NBA team might go after him and what they might be willing to give the Pistons for AD.

[lemonpen]

Murph, you are too kind. 7th year, 3rd game in the series and the excuse is “I was too hyped up”.

I have an alternate explanation. Dre’s lack of a true offensive game results in him having to be spoon-fed golden opportunities by creative teammates (ie his only 2 baskets in the first half), in addition to anything he can garner from offensive rebounding. Casey is on record (Detroit News) as having made a midseason directive to ball handlers to resist giving Dre the ball when he is away from the basket because of his ineffective offensive execution. IMO that coaching decision is responsible for AD's 2nd half scoring boost. But, that strategy appears to have been rendered ineffective against playoff level competition.

When younger Dre is said to have rejected encouragement to attend a noted big man camp, not to mention declining to accept working with a free throw shooting coach until his performance became historically poor. For one summer Drummond did put forth the effort to learn a righty/lefty jump hook, just not enough to command shot direction or touch. Nearly everyone here senses a dire need for significant physical development.
I find it difficult to have empathy when his plight appears to stem from a poor work ethic.

AD is under contract for 2 more seasons, with 2020-21 being a player option @ $27.8 million.

Side note: If Casey is able to raise our shooting %, what does that do to Dre’s offensive rebounding prowess.

Seriously gents, what do you NEED to see from him between Game #4 and the Feb-2020 trade deadline to allow Dre a decision on his player option.

My gut says there may soon be a division in the front office.

[Murph]

My take on the latest debacle was that Drummond was trying to do too much.  Lopez clearly had his number.  Once Lopez blocked Drummond 1 or 2 times in the paint, Drummond should have scaled down his game to what he does best, rebounding.  He got a couple of nice offensive rebounds early in the game, but he put the ball right back up and missed close in shots and lay-ups, some of which were blocked.  He should have kicked those offensive rebounds back out, so that the Pistons could have re-set their offense and eaten time off the clock.  In that way AD would have helped the team, not hurt the team.  But he got frustrated and started pressing.

AD should have realized early on that it was not going to be his night, stopped shooting and focused on rebounding.  Then later in the game, he might have started to hit shots. But all of that requires an awareness and BBIQ that Drummond does not yet possess.

[WTF]

but they need to look to a team like the Clippers as a model, undertaking a major rebuild on the run, including vets as well as youngsters."

Sparma I think we need to stop trying to model what everyone else is doing as a franchise and find our own path.  I'm not picking but this organization has done things their way they never followed.   Joe lost his way after two NBA Final appearances trying to be like everyone else he became a follower and this team has been lost without an identity since initially trading away CB.   

Call me Old School but playing smart and the right way has nothing to do with following the rest of the league.  We don't need to be like everyone else just imagine if we played smart defense, made our FT's, and didn't go 14 for 36 on 3pt attempts every freaking game following the rest of the league stupid idea of offense.

[Sparma]

Lots of agreement with BallinD. I'd posted as Haan at mlive last night:

"This team needs some deep revisions moving forward. They had a very nice stretch (17-8?) just before the last six games of the season, with Griffin no longer dragging the team forward, but still contributing, and with Andre and Reggie stepping up, and Ellington and Kennard looking like good contributors. I'm guessing the FO will just tweak, and the cap situation's moving in a positive direction, but I think a major restructuring's needed, beginning with a Blake trade for young assets. Tanking's probably not a realistic option, but they need to look to a team like the Clippers as a model, undertaking a major rebuild on the run, including vets as well as youngsters."

Looks like our difference still seems to be that I think we should begin with trading Blake, gutsy and gifted as he's shown himself to be this season. Not that I'm opposed to trading anyone, including Kennard, if it leaves the team better off moving forward.

My wishes don't make a whit of difference though, with the front office likely to stay pretty much on course for at least another year.

[cool breeze]

It’s ok Big Penguin.  You don’t have to make a layup, just show up for a must win playoff game at home.  Oh, neva mind that either.  Glad Gores is watching.

You should be the first to go! Headcase!

I had to stop watching this game in the 3rd quarter. Finished the game this morning and wouldn't you know it, both AD and RJ picked up their energy in the middle of the 4th quarter trying to get those stats. AD was trying harder once the Bucks let up a bit. But another factor that must be pointed out relating to our big man is that when he does try, he gets in foul trouble. There were at least 3 fouls committed by AD in the 4th quarter that were not called.

As for RJ, he came out in the first quarter with this lazy look using the high dribble a lot because it takes effort to get your body lower to protect the ball. Reggie turned the ball over in the first half which was part of the Bucks game plan against the Pistons. This Bucks team has a really good coach who gets very little credit. When thinking about that, I started wondering what new adjustment did Dwayne Casey make other than installing the injured Blake Griffin into the lineup. Early in the game, the 3 point shot was not falling and the reason why the Pistons were missing those shots so badly was because of very little ball or player movement. Players were off balance and shooting contested 3 point shots. The Bucks had Detroit's number. There were no adjustments. This led to the drought where the Pistons did not score for about 5 minutes in the first half. It appeared that almost every shot attempt was made without the extra pass or at the end of the shot clock. Ish Smith's game of creating off the dribble was defeated and the coach never changed a thing and was just watching.

What was the overall strategy by Dwayne Casey relating to creating a better defense in the 3rd game? What adjustment did he make? The playoffs are all about making adjustments. If Casey had attempted to make adjustments, which players let him down? Will those players be rewarded with the same amount of minutes in game 4? I thought perhaps that the coach might just bench AD in the first half and use ZaZa to protect the paint and get out on the shooters. I think he might have done a better job. I was also wondering why Casey did not throw Thomas out onto the hardwood for a few minutes or try Kennard at point guard being that both Piston point guards played horribly. What did he have to lose? The Piston's coach might not be convinced that he needs better players it seems. People often said that Casey is a regular season type NBA coach, and is not driven to create a team that can win in the playoffs. Maybe it is not Casey's fault at all and perhaps he has made the best of lack of roster balance. The Pistons did well to make the playoffs. They are the worst team who has performed in the playoffs and Detroit has players with a lot of experience. Listening to Billups, I was wishing that he was the Piston's head coach. Maybe Chauncey would be a voice of reason when conducting meetings with the owner and not just be a kiss ass like SVG and Casey might be. Yes Tom you have done a great job getting me the right players. We can make it work. It made me ill to watch SVG in the pre game giving his analysis. I wish the other guys would have asked him why he gave those big contracts to Leuer and Galloway and backed AD and RJ as team leaders for so long before Blake arrived.

What is this owner going to do now? What was he talking about on the way home after leaving the arena? It had to be embarrassing for him. It has been his inept decision making relating to making AD the franchise player years ago. He hired SVG and company and approved all of those free agent signings. Mr. Gores might still believe that Reggie Jackson is a potential All Star point guard. With leadership like that, what can any fan expect? What I expect is that the Pistons will not make the playoffs next season. Some of the teams that were rebuilding this season like Atlanta, NY will squeeze the Pistons out of contention for that 8th position in the playoffs. Teams like Orlando are on the way up. The Pistons are on the way down with Blake's bum knee and AD getting bigger around the belly and older. And then there is Reggie Jackson. Maybe the expiring contract will get the attention of other teams. Maybe Reggie will not be back but don't count on it. We have to remember that this owner goes to Andre Drummond for advise and AD will say, I want Reggie on my team again. Mr. Gores consulted with AD on almost everything maybe even the toilet player in the visitor's locker room.

[BallinD]

Keep Blake 1 more year minimum, pair with Luke in 2-way game with new Wing Oubre-esque.

Develop Bruce, Khyri, Svi, Thon. Draft well, get picks/pieces for Dre, Weggie, our expirings. Let Ish, Ellington walk. Get young and dynamic with Blake our vet n leader.

It may sound ironic but think Clippers. Retooling on the fly, then do it again till you get it right, the mix of vets n youth. In our case Pistons DNA n youth.

Dre n Weggie worship at the altar of seeking recognition and respect, believing they stumbled upon the altar of efforts and effectiveness.

That’s All folks.

[WTF]

Yes he deserved to be booed and it's about time it happened.   My Goodness we have bared witness of what champions look like and what they're made of so why keep cheering this piece of **** player.  

Stop calling him Franchise, stop call him Leader, please stop calling him anything related to being an Elite Player.   Can you imagine Zeke laying a Game 3 turd being down 2-0,  can you imagine CB and Rip not going down in a fierce battle, can you imagine Rodman, Tay, Ben, Sheed and Mahorn not showing in a clutch game.  

I don't know about these current new fans but those of us that witness the rise of the Bad Boys,  the Struggles of the Teal Years, to the Goin To Work Crew know this is **** basketball being played at the LCA.   

We seen players hungry to win, AD, RJ and to some degree BG aren't hungry, they have no desire and no passion to hold a Trophy and represent this city nor the legacy of this franchise.   They should be shamed to walk pass those trophies and all those banners,

[Phil-Good]

Pistons tips to rebuild.

1.Be realistic. Don't worry about making the playoffs. In the NBA there's only two positions to be in. In the running for a championship Or in the running for the top lottery pick.There is no in-between.


2. Don't give Drummonds any more money. TRADE is BIG AZZ. Appreciate everything you have done. But it's time to move on. Drummonds needs to go to A NBA Organization who will DEMAND his 1000% Best effort In the summer and during the NBA Season. A Coach and GM who will ride his azz until the cows come home. San Antonio. Miami and Dallas Mavs.

3. DRAFT WELL!! DRAFT ! Draft WELL!! Go out and find the best available player. First and second. Treat every second round pick like it's A LOTTERY PICK!!

4. Develop the young guys. Give these guys A opportunity to play and make A impact.

[WTF]

It's time to trade AD,  you know every time he puts up monster stats from padding in meaningless games many of you get all giddy about it.   Where's the meaningful 20-20 NOW in post season play when it should matter most?

I don't want to hear the excuses because there should be none,  Elite Players rise to the occasion in any situation, they pick up the slack and carry the load when times are dire.    Even in defeat an Elite Player goes down in defeat with monster games and their heads held high knowing they left it all on the floor in the heat of battle.    

BG showed up but where were the monster games from AD and RJ being down 2-0 with a game 3 at home?   I bet some of you are thinking that maybe obtaining an 8th seed wasn't so great after-all

IF YOU THINK THIS IS BETTER THAN THE TEAL YEARS YOU ARE DEEPLY MISTAKEN 

[cool breeze]

This is the franchise player. This is the man that Tom Gores declared would be the Pistons team leader two years ago. This is the player who went to the press complaining about how inappropriate the players only meeting was during the dark days of Piston history. Andre Drummond is a fake basketball player He doesn't know how to use what energy he does possess while carrying around 25 extra pounds of bulk. Chauncey made the most profound statement in the first quarter of the game. They had just finished a play back where AD was lost on defense while his man was unguarded hitting 3 point shots. Referring to the Bucks strategy Chauncey said "They prey on guys who don't cover ground well". That was being kind. AD was horrible on offense as well. What AD does best is dunk when he is wide open. That is usually a sure thing. But you can't count on AD to always dunk even when he has only one pint sized player guarding him two feet from the basket. AD might just throw up an off balanced "hope" shot instead of making the effort to dunk. But AD's defense was pitiful. Now that the Bucks team has targeted him even more than Smith, I now am worried that the Pistons might not get much for AD in the trade I am hoping for this summer. I think getting a high draft pick is not going to happen. Just how much can AD improve? Even if he loses the 25 pounds, I don't think he can ever get the mental part of the game down. He just doesn't have the mind of a real basketball player. His inability to quickly size up what is going on relating to the strategy on offense by his opponent and react appropriately has not changed in a positive way since he was drafted. The commentators identified the flaws well.The Bucks really did a great job Keeping AD off balance. AD can get his stats and fans will read about them and believe they have a real gem until AD plays in the playoffs where opposing teams get serious.

This embarrassing game for Andre Drummond should be no surprise. In all fairness when the 2nd unit came in in the first quarter, no player was effective on either offense or defense. The Piston offense was malfunctioning and and the Pistons went scoreless for several minutes. Why is it that Luke seldom touches the ball when he is playing with Smith and Galloway? The game started with the Pistons featuring Luke getting him some open mid range shots that he made. Then that strategy evaporated into thin air. Kennard was out there on the floor but was not part of the offense. Instead players like Smith and Jackson were dominating the basketball. Reggie had his share of turnovers. AD looked like a Jr High player. Those two players were selected by the owner as the team leaders. Now we know that Tom Gores has no clue how to identify the winners from the losers.

[BallinD]

It’s ok Big Penguin. You don’t have to make a layup, just show up for a must win playoff game at home. Oh, neva mind that either. Glad Gores is watching.

You should be the first to go! Headcase!

[Sparma]

Time for a serious rebuild, more a la Clippers (retain, even acquire, vets selectively (any other Lou Williams' out there?), while at the same time building a youthful basis) than the 76ers (tougher to succeed tanking now, and it would be tough for the Pistons to pull it off currently). I think Blake would need to be the first to go to make that a realistic prospect.

[lemonpen]

Not

[BallinD]

Deeeetroit Basketballlllll! It’s annoying seeing SVG talk Pistons pre-game and how he handicapped this franchise. He did pick us to win as did Jalen.

Wish Blake wasn’t playing but im intrigued watching for winning Deeeeeeetroit Basketballlll.

Sprinting back on D will be key. Use Blake to help get Kennard shots. Need 20-20 from Dre, and 10 assists from Weggie. Ellington breakout. Dre...make a layup.

[Murph]

Oracle...thank you for that article.  It was fascinating.  I am in no way down on Andre Drummond.  I have always been his biggest fan on this forum.  I followed him in college, and I was overjoyed when he somehow fell in the 2012 draft and the Pistons were able to snap him up at #9.  He was without question Joe Dumars' best draft pick.  

And I've always valued his contribution to the Pistons with his rebounding, passing, shot blocking, and his strange ability to always be among the league leaders in fewest points allowed per 100 possessions.  To me, his defensive rating indicates that Drummond is a very valuable defensive player, even if he doesn't seem to do well in the defensive "eye-ball test."  

And I started talking about his phenomenal rebounding numbers, and his chances of making it into the HOF two years ago, when he was only 23...years before the articles like the one you posted began to spring up.   Almost everyone on the board laughed at my HOF predictions.  Some posters are still laughing.

BUT, having said all of that, I agree with Don that Drummond could benefit from losing 25 lbs of body fat and get in better shape.  

Remember when Charles Barkley first came into the league?  He was the Round Mound of Rebound.  He was probably 6'4 and 260 lbs, and he was a rebounding machine.  He used his natural athleticism, strength and girth to his advantage.  He would box out with his huge ass, and then explode toward the basketball.  

But as the years went on, Barkley lost weight, slimmed down and go into much better shape.  By the time he lead the Suns to the 1993 NBA finals, he was a very different player.  He had probably lost 20 or 25 lbs from his peak playing weight, and had become much quicker.  

As Drummond ages, I think he would benefit from a similar transformation.  If AD lost 25 lbs and got into better shape, he would not only become quicker, he would lessen the stress on his knees and prolong his career.

And next year is his contract year.  If he wants a max contract and return to the Pistons for another 5 or 7 years at least, next year is when he should get into shape and have the best year of his career.  Nothing would make me happier.

Murph, you're letting weather vane posters get into your head. Don does this a lot, and I attribute it to the fact that he cares so much that when we lose it hurts, that's understandable.

I understand that there are people that ONLY see what's in front of them, it's binary, if they're winning, they're great, if they're losing they're trash and so is the whole organization. As I said, I get it. In life opportunities are the things that people that don't only rely only on what they see, but what could be possible, get and take advantage of.

Basketball can be tough, however, sometimes you have to look beyond winning and losing and ask the question WHY, and make an assessment as to if it's the player or the condition.

It's shocking to hope Drummond has a breakout season... News Flash: He's having a breakout season!!!

It blows my mind that talking heads, fans and everybody else even passes any judgement on the Pistons when their main star is not playing. Without Giannis, the Bucks are toast, hell, that's one of the reasons they struggled with us(in their house) when he went out with 3 fouls. We would have a chance to win 2 games if he wasn't there without Griffin, and we could beat them if he was healthy.

We need to stop listening to the doom and gloom and focus on what's important.

BTW, if you need some reinforcement, read this article: Why we love Andre Drummond and you should too

[cool breeze]

How serious is this injury to Blake? He might never be the same player who can charge in the lane like bull and somehow take on two or three players and still score. What is the plan?

Maker needs to gain weight but I really think he is going to be a fine player eventually. I really like how mature he appears to be when I watch him being interviewed. Maker needs to come back as a defensive stopper in the paint. He is extremely athletic and could be an amazing paint help defender and pick and roll stopper.

ZaZa is getting older and only wish he could turn back the clock because he is a smart guy. I think the Pistons need to find a really athletic defensive minded big man who can play both center and PF. The Pistons need players at a lot of positions but giving up so many easy baskets close to the basket and 2nd and 3rd chance opportunities reveals that lack of a solid rotation big man to go with AD might be the biggest hole the Pistons will have if Blake doesn't recover fully. Detroit has to secure a real solid point guard unless Luke can take over that position. I think this owner will do that either this summer or before the trade deadline next season. My choice for the draft pick is Bol Bol as I have said before but the Pistons will have to be real lucky if he is still available when they pick.

[cool breeze]

Yes, I agree 100% that SVG was a terrible hire.  I never liked him from the get-go, based on how he bungled the Orlando Magic.  When he took over the Magic, they had the premier center in the League, and future HOFer, Dwight Howard, who was only 22 at the time.  He also had other valuable roll players like Turkoglu, Ariza , Reddick and Gortat, all of whom had fine careers.  

All the Magic needed to do was find an All Star PG (sound familiar?).  Instead, they squandered their cap money on Rashard Lewis, who was nothing more than a high volume, no defense flash-in-the-pan.

Meanwhile, SVG for some reason fell in love with Jameer Nelson.  Now Nelson would have been a serviceable back-up, but he was never going to be the PG that would put the Magic over the top.  But SVG stuck with Nelson through thick and thin, starting Nelson for his entire tenure as a Magic coach.  

In the meantime, SVG squandered Howard's best years, and eventually drove Howard off the team, ruining what was left of a brilliant HOF career.  And it took the Magic 7 years to recover from SVG.  After wondering in the lottery desert for 7 years, the Magic only became a playoff team again this season.

And this was the guy Tom Gores put all of his faith in.  Not only did Gores reward Stan with the Head Coaching job, but he turned over all the personnel decisions to Van Gundy also...all for the bargain basement price of $35 million for 5 years.     We have discussed this ad nauseum, but Stan was an even worse GM than he was a coach.


Anywhoo...it looks as if Gores has finally gotten it right by hiring Ed Stephanski and Dwaine Casey.  It will take some time, I feel the Pistons are finally headed in the right direction.

Imagine Bill Davidson ever hiring Stan Van Gundy in that duel role that set the Pistons back so badly. Tom Gores watched the Pistons implode during the last few years of Joe Dumars. During that time whoever coached the Pistons seemed to have no control over the players. Players intentionally missed a shoot around before a road game. There was lack of discipline and respect for coaching staffs and the press was always quoting Charlie V to get his view of what the problem might be. Charlie and players like him were a much bigger part of the problem but the coaches got fired. I remember Charlie's old line, which was something like this (Our losing so many games has nothing to do with our talent). Piston players were getting crushed out on the hardwood by other NBA players who played with skill and effort. It was always somebody else's fault and Dumars  of all people seemed to have no answers after the day he traded Billups. So Tom Gores made a knee jerk reaction to all of that and hired SVG to restore order thinking no player would cross a head coach who had the power hand out new contracts and make trades. To me, SVG and Brower never appeared to look very healthy. SVG looked out of control on the sidelines and had some type of physical problem. You have to wonder what practices were like. AD refused to work with the shooting coach. Maybe AD was right about that after watching what the coaches did to screw up Johnson's jump shot. Other people who worked in the front office must have questioned some of the lame SVG decisions like the Leuer signing. I just don't think this type of thing would have happened under Davidson but maybe that is wrong of me to compare owners.

Two good posts Murph. you sure have an outstanding memory relating to being able to name the players on that Orlando team who played with Howard. SVG never seemed to believe that Nelson was not the right player to run that team. The Pistons took advantage of SVG's lack of judgment in that area.  

Tom Gores has an attachment with Andre Drummond. Maybe he can get Andre to lose the 25 pounds. If he can do it, there is no question that AD will enjoy playing the game more. Andre is a durable big man who has amazing potential. He gets outwitted at times but has the ability to recover if he has the right stuff on any given night. If he decides to finally get himself in the best physical condition of his life, that will take care of the weight problem. I imagine his diet is already appropriate being the he is a professional basketball player but who knows what is being put in his belly? The Bucks are giving AD wide open looks at the free throw line and up to 6 feet from the basket. He needs to come back next season capable of making a high percentage of those shot opportunities. When you can't make a 6 foot jump shot, why practice a 3 point shot? That is an indication of what Lemonpen once stated he was worried about. Do the Pistons have players who want to win over anything else or are they highlight type players turning it on one moment and then slacking the next? The playoffs sure exposes the slackers or the players who are not physically and mentally prepared to play at their best for an entire NBA game. That is a very difficult thing to do.

[Oracle]

Murph, you're letting weather vane posters get into your head. Don does this a lot, and I attribute it to the fact that he cares so much that when we lose it hurts, that's understandable.

I understand that there are people that ONLY see what's in front of them, it's binary, if they're winning, they're great, if they're losing they're trash and so is the whole organization. As I said, I get it. In life opportunities are the things that people that don't only rely only on what they see, but what could be possible, get and take advantage of.

Basketball can be tough, however, sometimes you have to look beyond winning and losing and ask the question WHY, and make an assessment as to if it's the player or the condition.

It's shocking to hope Drummond has a breakout season... News Flash: He's having a breakout season!!!

It blows my mind that talking heads, fans and everybody else even passes any judgement on the Pistons when their main star is not playing. Without Giannis, the Bucks are toast, hell, that's one of the reasons they struggled with us(in their house) when he went out with 3 fouls. We would have a chance to win 2 games if he wasn't there without Griffin, and we could beat them if he was healthy.

We need to stop listening to the doom and gloom and focus on what's important.

BTW, if you need some reinforcement, read this article: Why we love Andre Drummond and you should too

[Murph]

I agree with Don that Drummond needs to lose 25 lbs in the off season, drop body fat, and come in to training camp much stronger, leaner and quicker.  Perhaps, he should hire Arnie Kander as his personal trainer.  Instead of working on his 3 point shooting, Drummond need to get in shape.

AD has a lot of raw talent and athleticism, and you can't teach size.  But his weaknesses are being exposed in this playoff series against the Bucks.  Drummond looks like a slow water buffalo surrounded by a pack of hyenas out there.  

Look, Drummond's never going to be able to guard a player like Giannis.  That job is always going to have to go to quicker players like Brown and Maker.  But he needs to get quicker, stronger and more mobile on defense to compete in today's NBA.

Let me put it this way.  If Drummond wants a near max contract extension at the end of next season, now is the time to get in shape, compete and have the best season of his career.

[Murph]

Yes, I agree 100% that SVG was a terrible hire.  I never liked him from the get-go, based on how he bungled the Orlando Magic.  When he took over the Magic, they had the premier center in the League, and future HOFer, Dwight Howard, who was only 22 at the time.  He also had other valuable roll players like Turkoglu, Ariza , Reddick and Gortat, all of whom had fine careers.  

All the Magic needed to do was find an All Star PG (sound familiar?).  Instead, they squandered their cap money on Rashard Lewis, who was nothing more than a high volume, no defense flash-in-the-pan.

Meanwhile, SVG for some reason fell in love with Jameer Nelson.  Now Nelson would have been a serviceable back-up, but he was never going to be the PG that would put the Magic over the top.  But SVG stuck with Nelson through thick and thin, starting Nelson for his entire tenure as a Magic coach.  

In the meantime, SVG squandered Howard's best years, and eventually drove Howard off the team, ruining what was left of a brilliant HOF career.  And it took the Magic 7 years to recover from SVG.  After wondering in the lottery desert for 7 years, the Magic only became a playoff team again this season.

And this was the guy Tom Gores put all of his faith in.  Not only did Gores reward Stan with the Head Coaching job, but he turned over all the personnel decisions to Van Gundy also...all for the bargain basement price of $35 million for 5 years.     We have discussed this ad nauseum, but Stan was an even worse GM than he was a coach.


Anywhoo...it looks as if Gores has finally gotten it right by hiring Ed Stephanski and Dwaine Casey.  It will take some time, I feel the Pistons are finally headed in the right direction.

[Oracle]

This one caught my eye because it speaks to our experience under SVG, and yeah, they called him a retread, LOL!
"Detroit has been consistently mediocre for a while now and Forbes contributor Duncan Smith did an outstanding job breaking down what exactly has led to them to this point. Check it out to see why exactly Detroit is in the position they are in now. But, Smith shares that in their quest to remain competitive, the Pistons made a myriad of ill-advised moves; starting with hiring a retread like Stan Van Gundy and giving him total control of the organization." - The Pistons' Situation Should Serve As A Cautionary Tale For The Cavaliers

Then there's this ray of hope for us going forward:
"The Detroit Pistons will have one other trick up their sleeves in the form of Reggie Jackson, Langston Galloway and the aforementioned Jon Leuer. All three have expiring contracts worth a total of $34.9 million, which is an amount that other teams hoping to pick up a max salary slot might pay handsomely for in picks and young assets. While Jackson's production and role will be difficult to replace, Leuer can be easily moved as cap fodder, and the path towards easing Galloway's exit could be smoothed as Bruce Brown, Khyri Thomas and Luke Kennard develop." - The Detroit Pistons And The Path To Building From The Middle

[Oracle]

Two great posts and tribute to the amazing effort displayed by our guys in that first half.

This is the kind of playoff experience I wanted... Mission Accomplished!

I say that because now these guys know what it takes to win in the playoffs and that you can't take games off during the regular season... EVERY game matters!!!

We know about Kennard, he's obviously a major part of the core going forward, but don't sleep on Bruce Brown,

Brown’s defense was as critical as Kennard’s scoring to delivering the Pistons to halftime with a lead. His five points, two rebounds, two steals and one block don’t speak to the impact Brown had on the second-quarter surge.

“Bruce played great,” Kennard said. “The way he can impact the ball, that’s big. His energy, you kind of feed off of that. He got a steal and took it on the break, pitched it back to me, I got a three. That’s a momentum changer.” - Pistons punch back, but Bucks throw a knockout punch in second half for 2-0 series lead

It takes adversity to find out who has the stuff needed to deliver for this team and I'm really proud of them. Kennard & Brown are impact players, and Brown has an offensive game too, it's just been muted in favor of Reggie, Drummond, Ellington and Blake being in the starting lineup. Playing more with the 2nd unit will unlock his offensive potential as a slasher.

BTW, in our last playoff visit, we gave the Cavs all they could handle and played great, but I don't think I ever saw the level of intensity these guys showed in that first half, it actually surprised me a bit.

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