Some positives?

[Sparma]

Moral victories are poo-poohed, but I'll take this over the lifeless performance the other day.

Just watched the 4th quarter, but here are some positives:

Blake got some things done offensively against a real tough D.

Reggie B. hit from distance (3 down the stretch).

Ish continued to be successful from distance.

Bruce Brown looks like he's earning some minutes, maybe as the 10th guy or so.  Kelser commented on how effective he is when moving without the ball.

[Sparma]

Thanks Murph.

You make an important point regarding green, yellow, and red lights.  I hope that's going on beyond the scenes; sometimes it doesn't sound like key differentiations regarding shooting are being made.  

A baseball analogy works up to a point.  There, your assigning of green, yellow, and red lights straightforwardly occurs regards stealing bases.  Ron LeFlore gets the green light, Rusty Staub the red, and maybe Larry Herndon gets the yellow.  

Unfortunately, with the Pistons, some of our players don't get their roles.  Most strikingly, Stanley seems to think he gets the LeFlore GREEN light, whereas he's really closer to Staub.

The analogy breaks down in that (analysts think) 3 pointers in basketball are far more valuable than stolen bases.  Maybe Stanley shooting around 30% actually isn't such bad odds?  [30% of 100 shots from 3 equals 45% from the 2 range, and I don't think Stanley's shooting that percentage at all beyond 3 feet; free throw shots, defensive positioning, getting the opponent in foul trouble make the comparison more complicated.]

I was going to praise ZaZa for really understanding his red light.  But it turns out that his 0% from 3 comes on 27 total attempts!!  I wonder if that's approaching a record: most 3s attempted without making any.  I'm guessing most, if not all of those, came on end of shot clock/ period heaves.

Sparma...great post.  Lots of food for thought.  I think the key to our 3 pt shooting is to change the mix of who's taking the 3s.  The player's percentages will gradually revert to their career means, with the possible exception of Griffin. who seems to have made a sea-change improvement on his 3 pt shooting from his career average.

As I stated earlier, based on their career percentages, I would give the green light to Bullock, Kennard, Calderon, Robinson, Galloway, and now Griffin.

I'd give the yellow light to Jackson, Leuer, Ellenson and now Ish, with the understanding if they got hot and stayed hot, they can shoot more 3s.

And I would give the red light to Drummond, Johnson, Zaza and Brown.  Of that group, only Zaza seems smart enough to understand his limitations.  The rest of that group seem oblivious to the fact that they can't shoot, and will keep chucking away unless Casey can reign them in.

In fact, Drummond, Brown and Johnson are shooting a combined 7-31 (22%) from the 3 point line.  If you just backed out their 3 point chucks, the rest of the team would be shooting a league average of 36%.

We want to shoot, but only two regulars (one of whom is out now) are better than last year's NBA league average for their careers.  Problem!

Last year's NBA league 3pt% was 36.2%.  

Doing some checking, it looks like Bullock, Kennard, and Calderon are the only three Pistons above last year's league average for their careers.  One of those guys is out.  Calderon rarely plays.

Trouble!

Galloway's just a tick under at 35.6%

Both Griffin and Leuer sit at .334.  To my surprise, Reggie J comes in below them at .321.

Glenn Robinson?  Decent for his career at 34%, but below league average.  Ellenson's ok at 32%, but again below league average.

Stanley's crummy from distance for his career (.295), but a tick better this season (after last night!) at .300.  Ish is just a little better for his career at .307.

Griffin and Ish are shooting ridiculously well this season (even including last night).  I expect their %s to come down closer to their lengthy career averages.  That said, I do think both have genuinely improved as distance shooters, so that I think both will exceed their career averages.  

Bullock and Galloway sit way under their career averages this season.  Reggie B will get going from distance; Galloway will be a solid (but not outstanding) option again.

We know about Andre.  He's at .143 for the season, a little behind (!) his .162 for his career.

Not sure what to say about the rooks, and partial Pistons.

Maybe Casey's found a way to improve the %s, focusing on corner 3s?  Well, with Bullock and Kennard contributing heavily we hit a very nice .373 last year.  That included Tolliver at .426 (2nd to RB) and Harris at .409 (4th, right behind Kennard).  This year, even with Ish and Blake shooting out of their minds (until last night), we're at .333.

I see reason for optimism concerning improvement (RB, LG) and pessimism (Blake, Ish).

All in all, not a pretty picture.  At least: along with the shoddy D and the plodding O, our fair and erratic distance shooting provides another reason to doubt the team will climb far over .500.

[Oracle]

Henry was really young when he was drafted in the first round. Big men take time to develop into effective players especially exceptionally young teenagers who play power forward or center.(Except Drummond)

You left out what you truly feel, because you've been on Drummond since year 3 of his NBA career.


However, what you said is none the less true, especially for Centers, less so for PF's, but Ellenson got a really raw deal with SVG.


This management team gave him a good opportunity, but in reality he STUNK up summer league so bad it was embarrassing. Rookies were cleaning his clock as a 3rd year player and they never played a minute of NBA ball.


He's fumbled every opportunity to show something, so I don't fault this management team, but I do fault SVG!


Young players are defined in their first 4 years, and once defined, it's basically over unless they show something to someone that's truly good.


Ellenson got a raw deal here, like so many youngsters, and he will likely need to go elsewhere and hope for a coach that knows how to use his talents and make him better. NBA life is too short to waste time on players that won't get you anywhere.

[cool breeze]

Henry was really young when he was drafted in the first round. Big men take time to develop into effective players especially exceptionally young teenagers who play power forward or center. What does a responsible smart front office do with a guy like Ellenson? Was it a smart thing to simply let him sit the bench and get no experience? How stupid can this Piston franchise be. I imagine if Henry had been drafted by the Spurs he would be ready to contribute now. The Spurs plan for the future. They do not make trades like the Blake Griffin trade when they have a team that is full of 2nd tier type players along with a high priced starting center who is still developing into a complete player. There was no way the Pistons could win a championship by adding Griffin yet the owner gave up a number one pick in this last draft. What was he thinking?

I always had in the back of my mind that Henry Ellenson will someday be a really good big man in the NBA. He is a good ball handler and is pretty fast on the court. It was clear to me that his timing was off for lack of being in game shape. Henry never was able to get comfortable. Ellenson has the potential to become an outstanding outside shooter. He also can drive it to the rim. His defense is not great but how much worse is he on defense from those players who lost to Boston last week? If Ellenson had stayed and played in the G League last season, there is no doubt in my mind that he could earn minutes with this current Piston team. The reason given was Henry's poor showing in the Summer League. Are you kidding me? The Summer League proves next to nothing relating to a players potential to play in the NBA. Everyone is trying to show off and earn a place on an NBA team. I look at Ellenson and see his age and say to myself the Piston Front office is fully stocked with idiots. The cost to sign Ellenson would be peanuts. We fans sit around waiting for some of the young guys to get their chance and this front office eliminates them before anyone knows how good they might become. Then they pick up some loser reject who is at the end of his prime and pay that guy 6 times the amount it would take to sign Ellenson.

I am believing now that Piston fans will be waiting until this ownership group sells the team before we will have any hope to live to see another Piston team competing for a championship. The Pistons have to find money to pay Blake, Andre, Reggie, Jon Leuer and Langston Galloway so why not cross Henry E. off but exactly how much will they be saving?

[cool breeze]

At least this season most of us have a sense of humor. We all know where we stand with this team. We hope for the best and pull for the team to be as productive as possible. The players are all trying for sure but do they actually know what it takes regarding mental discipline to play as a team and make decisions that actually offer the best result for the team. Is this coaching staff any better than any of the others that the owner considered failures? Do coaches in the NBA just throw out the basketball in practice and tell the players to have fun with the wild and crazy undisciplined small ball read and react fast paced 3 point shootout style? My question to this coaching staff is how in hell do you allow players to shoot the basketball when the rest of the players on the floor are out of position and cannot get back in time to stop the massive amount of transition baskets caused by missed three point shooters?

What I am seeing on the floor with the Pistons is much the same as other NBA losing teams. They all copy each other even when they do not have the required talent to play this mindless style. What long time Piston fan thought for one second that it would be a good thing for Andre Drummond to launch impulsive 3 point shots? Why would he think that would be a smart thing to concentrate on over the summer instead of learning how to be a better defensive player? What direction did this new coaching staff give Andre Drummond and others over the summer as to what the players needed to work on? I know Casey told Stanley Johnson at Johnson's practice facility in California to shoot more 3s. I heard that Johnson was working hard on his mid range game at the time. What in hell was wrong with that idea? Johnson is capable of getting closer to the basket and getting that type of shot off pretty easy. Why not shoot the mid range shot. Has the NBA gone insane with this idea that it is more pleasing to fans to see a lot of 3 point shots? And do head coaches who get long term contracts actually care if they create a winning team anymore? If they did then who would tell Drummond that he has a green light to jack up three point shots when the guards are down at the baseline and cannot get back in time to protect the paint when AD misses? Also, if AD and others who should not be shooting the 3 ball decide to impulsively shoot it when the better defensive minded players are not in position to get back to stop a fast break, how can the head coach tolerate those same shooter when they miss those shots to just jog back on defense and allow opposing players to blow by them for layups. If AD is going to shoot the long ball then he better get his ass back really quick because he is out on top of the key when those shots go up. Charlie V was good at shooting the long ball and that was my grip about him. Charlie was a lazy ass who should have been the first guy back to protect the paint on those misses yet he seemed to be the last player back on defense. What kind of coach allows that crap?

If players are allowed to pick and choose when they are going get back quickly and set up the half court defense, then there is no hope for a good outcome. Any coach knows that but somehow NBA coaches adjust their mindset and ignore what these highly paid players get away with in the modern game. The Pistons cannot match up with Boston talent wise. They have superior players who are getting to know how to play as a team now. By the end of the season the Celtics should be tough to beat because although they have some really talented offensive players, defense is the theme their coach has been preaching. Meanwhile, our Piston team lacks exceptional talent at key positions an our coaching staff is telling the players not to worry about jacking up 3 pointers. It shows so far that this Piston team does not have a good grip on how to play well together on the defensive end. Opponents have been able to get easy baskets in the paint. The Pistons cannot keep any type of lead for long because they give away too much on the defensive end by jacking up impulsive contested 3 point shots. Does that remind anyone of what we have seen over the past two years with SVG in command of the operation? Ben Wallace brought a defensive mind set to the Pistons. We have no player on this team that has what Big Ben provided. The Pistons might make the playoffs by beating a lot of horrible teams worse off than the pistons because they are rebuilding. Detroit is not in the rebuild mode. This is what we will see for several years. Will Casey and his staff do anything about it or will they fake it like SVG did and just talk nonsense? Meanwhile we can look at the hair styles of our players. Who knows maybe one of the players will come out with the old bee hive Marge Simpson hair do before the season is over.

[BallinD]

Defensive schemes? 26th in assists?
Small ball lineups, particularly hate LG, Weggie, Ish, is terrible defensively 130 defensive rating with Weggie playing SF...sheeeeesh. Where is GR3?

Where’s the P&R in spurts when smart teams focus on stopping Blake, and/or double team Blake. Where are the other options? Casey?

We’re not hitting shots yet, Bullock is off, but traditionally he starts slowly. Give it time. LG is shooting himself in the foot, not sold on his promotion.

Its early but the issues persist thru wins and losses. SJ? maybe so, maybe no. Probably no.

[Murph]

Oracle...I'm not suggesting the Pistons can or should become the Golden State Warriors.  I'm only suggesting that we should diversity our offense.  Having Griffin take the ball down the court and going 1 on 1, or 1 on 2 is getting too predictable.

When Griffin is running the offense, he should look for his own shot, but he should also be a willing passer and look for Bullock, Kennard, Galloway, Robinson and Jackson on the perimeter for 3's, as well as Drummond down low, and Johnson cutting to the basket.

Jackson and Ish should also initiate the offense periodically.

That would represent a lot of different looks.


I agree Bullock's hairdo is ridiculous.     <RB

[deusXango]

Oracle, your statement, "This next game will tell us a LOT about this team. If they don't fight to the end and be very competitive after getting their arses handed to them, my opinion of them will suffer a big blow." about sums it up for me also. A helluva lot more pride and fight has got to be shown by this team and I'm looking for more astute decisions coming from the bench. When sh!t is obviously not working, why not bring the thinking outside the box? Unless I've missed something, that last game would've been an excellent opportunity to see what a Johnson/Brown/Thomas trio of defensive Pistons could've done for say 5-6 minutes...Stanley finally offset his poor shot selection with a little production and the Celtics were killing us from the outside; we had very little to loose in that blowout. Isn't 3 & D where Thomas excels?

I admit to being from another time, as far as fashion and style goes, but I've noticed that the players who are playing outstanding basketball are groomed and the Raggedy Ann and Andy looks are on the football field. There's a bigger difference than one being a contact sport and the other a collision sport. Don, if Bullock and Stanley are grooming themselves to appeal to the ladies, then their heads are in the stands not on the court and it's affecting their play; Stanley's poor shot selection and Bullocks styling (shooting and defense) over success is leaving them out of harmony with winning. The damnedest thing is, they could be among the best in the league if they applied themselves. I'm a homer too Oracle.

[Oracle]

dX I think that I commented on Bullock's haircut last week. But you wrote a clever post here. i love it. Reggie is hard for me to watch. Obviously some fans might be on cool with that look though. I might be out of touch with what be considered attractive relating to how young women view men. I don't like Johnson's hair style either but then I most likely am in the minority relating to how fans want their players to look like.(Nope you're not out to lunch this time, Bullock is WAY out there with his look, Stanley is just slightly odd, but passable) All I know is that it would be a nightmare for me and my wife to have a teenager living with us who insisted on having the Reggie Bullock look. What does he see in the mirror that he doesn't like to the point that he did that to himself? Imagine Zeke coming out with something like that in his prime. What does the owner think? Is he worried more about the potential turn off of Piston fans relating to Reggie's hair or is he more worried that he has non money to bring in a legit starting 2 guard? Maybe the owner could have drafted a guard in the first round if he hadn't thrown in that first round pick last summer. Bullock's failure to make the 3 ball doesn't bother me as much as he shoddy defense so far this season.

The stupid idea that the game has changed and every team needs to play the 3 point game like Golden State has spread like the flu(Totally agree, this insanity is causing us to do things we aren't capable of right now. What ever happened to working for the best shot? If it happens to be a 3, fine, but don't settle for a 3 early in the clock just to be like somebody else). A smart coach has to recognize who he has to work with and then fit an offense that will work for them. Hello! The Pistons do not have the parts necessary to play Golden State's game. Instead Casey is encouraging Andre Drummond to shoot more threes along with all the fringe players he has in starting roles. Reading some of the stuff in the press is almost funny. This team did not let Piston fans down when they lost to Boston. The Pistons have over achieved so far. They are 4-1 and beat Philly without Simmons which was great. Fans cannot expect this team to beat top tier NBA teams who are loaded at every position with top talent. This owner might be a lot like Sarver who owns the Phoenix Suns. He recently fired a really smart GM. Before that Steve Kerr quit rather than suffer working for Sarver. Server thought that the Suns time is now rather than maybe in 3 more years. The GM he fired managed to draft 3 really good prospects and positioned the Suns to get the top pick in the draft. But there is no way the Suns can win this year. I think maybe Tom Gores believes the Pistons can win the championship this year. After all they beat the Nets. It doesn't work that way. These owners are the problem. They don't know that they don't know.

That loss to Boston was really bad, IMO. At first I tried to find excuses, but after a while I realized it was the Homer in me, there wasn't a good excuse for losing like that at home.

This next game will tell us a LOT about this team. If they don't fight to the end and be very competitive after getting their arses handed to them, my opinion of them will suffer a big blow.

[cool breeze]

If it's such a thing as being "nose blind," then it's possible for someone's head to be out of harmony with what they're trying to do...Reggie Bullock's dome is not harmonized due to that dumbass looking hair doo that's not fengshui correct. That recreational weed consumption is rearing it's ugly head, unfortunately during the season, once again. Get a haircut, get in the gym, and limit your personal penchants to the off-season. Come on, Reggie B, we need you. I'd rather see you leading the NBA in 3 point% instead of competing with Elfrid Payton, for the dumbest look in the league.

dX I think that I commented on Bullock's haircut last week. But you wrote a clever post here. i love it. Reggie is hard for me to watch. Obviously some fans might be on cool with that look though. I might be out of touch with what be considered attractive relating to how young women view men. I don't like Johnson's hair style either but then I most likely am in the minority relating to how fans want their players to look like. All I know is that it would be a nightmare for me and my wife to have a teenager living with us who insisted on having the Reggie Bullock look. What does he see in the mirror that he doesn't like to the point that he did that to himself? Imagine Zeke coming out with something like that in his prime. What does the owner think? Is he worried more about the potential turn off of Piston fans relating to Reggie's hair or is he more worried that he has non money to bring in a legit starting 2 guard? Maybe the owner could have drafted a guard in the first round if he hadn't thrown in that first round pick last summer. Bullock's failure to make the 3 ball doesn't bother me as much as he shoddy defense so far this season.

The stupid idea that the game has changed and every team needs to play the 3 point game like Golden State has spread like the flu. A smart coach has to recognize who he has to work with and then fit an offense that will work for them. Hello! The Pistons do not have the parts necessary to play Golden State's game. Instead Casey is encouraging Andre Drummond to shoot more threes along with all the fringe players he has in starting roles. Reading some of the stuff in the press is almost funny. This team did not let Piston fans down when they lost to Boston. The Pistons have over achieved so far. They are 4-1 and beat Philly without Simmons which was great. Fans cannot expect this team to beat top tier NBA teams who are loaded at every position with top talent. This owner might be a lot like Sarver who owns the Phoenix Suns. He recently fired a really smart GM. Before that Steve Kerr quit rather than suffer working for Sarver. Server thought that the Suns time is now rather than maybe in 3 more years. The GM he fired managed to draft 3 really good prospects and positioned the Suns to get the top pick in the draft. But there is no way the Suns can win this year. I think maybe Tom Gores believes the Pistons can win the championship this year. After all they beat the Nets. It doesn't work that way. These owners are the problem. They don't know that they don't know.

[deusXango]

If it's such a thing as being "nose blind," then it's possible for someone's head to be out of harmony with what they're trying to do...Reggie Bullock's dome is not harmonized due to that dumbass looking hair doo that's not fengshui correct. That recreational weed consumption is rearing it's ugly head, unfortunately during the season, once again. Get a haircut, get in the gym, and limit your personal penchants to the off-season. Come on, Reggie B, we need you. I'd rather see you leading the NBA in 3 point% instead of competing with Elfrid Payton, for the dumbest look in the league.

[lemonpen]

Sparma...great post.  Lots of food for thought.  I think the key to our 3 pt shooting is to change the mix of who's taking the 3s.  The player's percentages will gradually revert to their career means, with the possible exception of Griffin. who seems to have made a sea-change improvement on his 3 pt shooting from his career average.

As I stated earlier, based on their career percentages, I would give the green light to Bullock, Kennard, Calderon, Robinson, Galloway, and now Griffin.

I'd give the yellow light to Jackson, Leuer, Ellenson and now Ish, with the understanding if they got hot and stayed hot, they can shoot more 3s.

And I would give the red light to Drummond, Johnson, Zaza and Brown.  Of that group, only Zaza seems smart enough to understand his limitations.  The rest of that group seem oblivious to the fact that they can't shoot, and will keep chucking away unless Casey can reign them in.

In fact, Drummond, Brown and Johnson are shooting a combined 7-31 (22%) from the 3 point line.  If you just backed out their 3 point chucks, the rest of the team would be shooting a league average of 36%.

We want to shoot, but only two regulars (one of whom is out now) are better than last year's NBA league average for their careers.  Problem!

Last year's NBA league 3pt% was 36.2%.  

Doing some checking, it looks like Bullock, Kennard, and Calderon are the only three Pistons above last year's league average for their careers.  One of those guys is out.  Calderon rarely plays.

Trouble!

Galloway's just a tick under at 35.6%

Both Griffin and Leuer sit at .334.  To my surprise, Reggie J comes in below them at .321.

Glenn Robinson?  Decent for his career at 34%, but below league average.  Ellenson's ok at 32%, but again below league average.

Stanley's crummy from distance for his career (.295), but a tick better this season (after last night!) at .300.  Ish is just a little better for his career at .307.

Griffin and Ish are shooting ridiculously well this season (even including last night).  I expect their %s to come down closer to their lengthy career averages.  That said, I do think both have genuinely improved as distance shooters, so that I think both will exceed their career averages.  

Bullock and Galloway sit way under their career averages this season.  Reggie B will get going from distance; Galloway will be a solid (but not outstanding) option again.

We know about Andre.  He's at .143 for the season, a little behind (!) his .162 for his career.

Not sure what to say about the rooks, and partial Pistons.

Maybe Casey's found a way to improve the %s, focusing on corner 3s?  Well, with Bullock and Kennard contributing heavily we hit a very nice .373 last year.  That included Tolliver at .426 (2nd to RB) and Harris at .409 (4th, right behind Kennard).  This year, even with Ish and Blake shooting out of their minds (until last night), we're at .333.

I see reason for optimism concerning improvement (RB, LG) and pessimism (Blake, Ish).

All in all, not a pretty picture.  At least: along with the shoddy D and the plodding O, our fair and erratic distance shooting provides another reason to doubt the team will climb far over .500.

I like Zaza. Too bad we got him so late in his career. ZP's bball IQ is twice his physical capabilities. He's fun to watch.

WTF is up with Bullock. Didn't see much of the last game but he single handedly prevented the Cavs from being blown out.

[lemonpen]

Good loss? Potentially. If the coaching staff is any good this beat-down will turn out to be a valuable teaching opportunity. Embarassment can be a decent motivator; a real attention getter over 4 & oh swollen heads.

The C's are our eastern conf measuring stick. This time we held tough for 1/2 a quarter. Let's see if there is any improvement on Dec 15th.

[lemonpen]

FYI:  Since day 1 our broadcast team has harped on the news about Ish dedicating a significant part of the summer toward improving his 3pt shot.  There is a reason for his uptick.

[Murph]

Sparma...great post.  Lots of food for thought.  I think the key to our 3 pt shooting is to change the mix of who's taking the 3s.  The player's percentages will gradually revert to their career means, with the possible exception of Griffin. who seems to have made a sea-change improvement on his 3 pt shooting from his career average.

As I stated earlier, based on their career percentages, I would give the green light to Bullock, Kennard, Calderon, Robinson, Galloway, and now Griffin.

I'd give the yellow light to Jackson, Leuer, Ellenson and now Ish, with the understanding if they got hot and stayed hot, they can shoot more 3s.

And I would give the red light to Drummond, Johnson, Zaza and Brown.  Of that group, only Zaza seems smart enough to understand his limitations.  The rest of that group seem oblivious to the fact that they can't shoot, and will keep chucking away unless Casey can reign them in.

In fact, Drummond, Brown and Johnson are shooting a combined 7-31 (22%) from the 3 point line.  If you just backed out their 3 point chucks, the rest of the team would be shooting a league average of 36%.

We want to shoot, but only two regulars (one of whom is out now) are better than last year's NBA league average for their careers.  Problem!

Last year's NBA league 3pt% was 36.2%.  

Doing some checking, it looks like Bullock, Kennard, and Calderon are the only three Pistons above last year's league average for their careers.  One of those guys is out.  Calderon rarely plays.

Trouble!

Galloway's just a tick under at 35.6%

Both Griffin and Leuer sit at .334.  To my surprise, Reggie J comes in below them at .321.

Glenn Robinson?  Decent for his career at 34%, but below league average.  Ellenson's ok at 32%, but again below league average.

Stanley's crummy from distance for his career (.295), but a tick better this season (after last night!) at .300.  Ish is just a little better for his career at .307.

Griffin and Ish are shooting ridiculously well this season (even including last night).  I expect their %s to come down closer to their lengthy career averages.  That said, I do think both have genuinely improved as distance shooters, so that I think both will exceed their career averages.  

Bullock and Galloway sit way under their career averages this season.  Reggie B will get going from distance; Galloway will be a solid (but not outstanding) option again.

We know about Andre.  He's at .143 for the season, a little behind (!) his .162 for his career.

Not sure what to say about the rooks, and partial Pistons.

Maybe Casey's found a way to improve the %s, focusing on corner 3s?  Well, with Bullock and Kennard contributing heavily we hit a very nice .373 last year.  That included Tolliver at .426 (2nd to RB) and Harris at .409 (4th, right behind Kennard).  This year, even with Ish and Blake shooting out of their minds (until last night), we're at .333.

I see reason for optimism concerning improvement (RB, LG) and pessimism (Blake, Ish).

All in all, not a pretty picture.  At least: along with the shoddy D and the plodding O, our fair and erratic distance shooting provides another reason to doubt the team will climb far over .500.

[Sparma]

We want to shoot, but only two regulars (one of whom is out now) are better than last year's NBA league average for their careers. Problem!

Last year's NBA league 3pt% was 36.2%.

Doing some checking, it looks like Bullock, Kennard, and Calderon are the only three Pistons above last year's league average for their careers. One of those guys is out. Calderon rarely plays.

Trouble!

Galloway's just a tick under at 35.6%

Both Griffin and Leuer sit at .334. To my surprise, Reggie J comes in below them at .321.

Glenn Robinson? Decent for his career at 34%, but below league average. Ellenson's ok at 32%, but again below league average.

Stanley's crummy from distance for his career (.295), but a tick better this season (after last night!) at .300. Ish is just a little better for his career at .307.

Griffin and Ish are shooting ridiculously well this season (even including last night). I expect their %s to come down closer to their lengthy career averages. That said, I do think both have genuinely improved as distance shooters, so that I think both will exceed their career averages.

Bullock and Galloway sit way under their career averages this season. Reggie B will get going from distance; Galloway will be a solid (but not outstanding) option again.

We know about Andre. He's at .143 for the season, a little behind (!) his .162 for his career.

Not sure what to say about the rooks, and partial Pistons.

Maybe Casey's found a way to improve the %s, focusing on corner 3s? Well, with Bullock and Kennard contributing heavily we hit a very nice .373 last year. That included Tolliver at .426 (2nd to RB) and Harris at .409 (4th, right behind Kennard). This year, even with Ish and Blake shooting out of their minds (until last night), we're at .333.

I see reason for optimism concerning improvement (RB, LG) and pessimism (Blake, Ish).

All in all, not a pretty picture. At least: along with the shoddy D and the plodding O, our fair and erratic distance shooting provides another reason to doubt the team will climb far over .500.

[WTF]

Team's 4-1 which make them 51 games short of expectation and 35 games away of my predicted win totals for the season.   It is not okay under any circumstance to lose to an Elite on the road by 20 points PERIOD!.   

While an 82 win season isn't likely doesn't mean it shouldn't be pursued conceding to losses is the reason this team is the way it is now.  For the money this team is coughing up to Blake, AD and Reggie as well as others losing shouldn't be an option.

You know there use to be a time when we predicted how many games this team would lose, we knew they were going to win but how many would they lose always the unclear thing.  Think about it!!!!!

[cool breeze]

Well,  you knew we we're going to win 82 games.  And there is no shame in losing to an elite team like the Celtics on the road, even by 20 points.  The problem is, because Griffin is 29, the Celtics are actually younger than we are.  They're going to dominate us for years.

I will say that our offense is too predictable.  We need more options that just Blake going 1 on 2 or 1 on 3.  When Griffin runs the offense, he needs to be a more willing passer, and look for shooters on the perimeter (Bullock, Jackson, Robinson, Kennard when healthy), or Drummond down low, or SJ cutting to the basket.

I also wouldn't mind seeing Reggie Jackson run the pick-n-roll with Drummond once in a while.  That worked well last season, and should not be abandoned.  

I would also like to see Jackson and Ish create with the basketball every now and then, although that's a slippery slope.  There's a fine line between creating every now and then, and dribbling the air out of the basketball.

On the bright side, Ellenson and Leuer played well off the bench, and Kennard is only out for 2-4 weeks.  We can use his perimeter shooting.

Let's hope we show better against the Celtics at home.

Perhaps the Piston strategy should be to rest the starters when playing any NBA team with a winning record to achieve the most wins possible this season. Just kidding but you are right the Pistons are way too predictable. Blake Griffin was not a very good leader in this last game. He was stubborn and refused to adjust his game to be a facilitator. The coaching staff was stubborn as well and offered the team no ideas relating to making adjustments. The roster is very defective so Casey has few options relating ways to change tactics.

If the team can beat all of the teams who are rebuilding, Detroit could have a winning record and be in the playoffs at the end of the season. The combination of Blake, AD, Jackson, Smith and Johnson should be enough to win the games they are favored in. The team really misses Tolliver who provided stability with his leadership, defense and shooting ability all season long. There is no replacement for Tolliver so the Piston's owner should take the blame relating to bungling things regarding both Tolliver and Moreland. I don't see anyone on the team who can provide what Anthony provided off the bench. The starting five and Smith will need to avoid injuries and somehow find the right chemistry when playing defense. There is a real lack of discipline relating to settling for long range contested jump shots. lack of ball and player movement and screening forces those bad decisions at the end of the shot clock . The team's inability to get enough stops prevents the Pistons from getting good looks in transition.

This loss to Boston was embarrassing for the players. Hopefully, this coaching staff can provide some leadership and ideas that this roster will accept. After embarrassing loses with SVG, the Pistons seemed to go into a tail spin and went on long losing streaks. It is important that the Pistons play a lot smarter in this re match with Boston. I am not looking for them to win the next game. But it is important for them to avoid another blow out. Using an offense that banks on making a lot of 3 point shots when you don't have the right players to play that type of offense causing big problems when they don't have time to even set up their half court defense. Boston's coaching staff outwitted the Pistons coaching staff. Boston players bought into the game plan exceptionally well. As everyone is saying the Celtics have a great defensive team this season. They want to win with their defense which gives them fantastic opportunities in transition. The Celtics were having fun all night long. Hopefully it won't be as much fun for them in this next matchup.

By the way I liked the interview with Ben Wallace and some of the old game film showing Big Ben in action. He was all in playing as hard as he could all of the time. Ben set the tone and the minute he arrived in that Orlando trade Wallace provided the Pistons with an identity. What a competitor!
Go Pistons!

[Sparma]

Good suggestions, Murph. One way or another more offensive variety is needed. Casey may be the guy to get the proportions right.

Of course, we also have massive defensive woes. There, I find it harder to be optimistic. '

Unfortunately, that beat down came at home. Now we get to go to Boston.

Don, I think you make a good point about Kelser. I generally defend him, and I did think his specific suggestion of posting Blake up closer to the basket when he's being given so much resistance bringing the ball up is a good one. He's a company man, so he's got to sell the product. Usually, he does a nice job of inserting realistic insights along the way. Yesterday, I do think he underplayed what was happening, insisting on its aberrant nature. It was left to Matt Shepherd to respond to Kelser's useful suggestion regarding posting up with: Yes, but surely that's not enough....

Aberration, yes, in that I don't see us losing by 20 that often this year. But also illuminating: (a) not only was our D again sliced to pieces, but (b) our limited offensive repertoire came to the fore, along with (c) spotty outside shooting. I expect those problems to dog it all years, although we've already seen that there will be nights when the outside shooting is on, and our predictable O (spearheaded by a star) is good enough to eek out wins (note that at 4-1 we've got a negative point differential; that's hard to do!).

And great coaching by Brad Stevens, designing ways (executed by outstanding players) to take away our two greatest strengths: Blake's offensive game and our offensive rebounding, ordinarily led by AD.

Well,  you knew we we're going to win 82 games.  And there is no shame in losing to an elite team like the Celtics on the road, even by 20 points.  The problem is, because Griffin is 29, the Celtics are actually younger than we are.  They're going to dominate us for years.

I will say that our offense is too predictable.  We need more options that just Blake going 1 on 2 or 1 on 3.  When Griffin runs the offense, he needs to be a more willing passer, and look for shooters on the perimeter (Bullock, Jackson, Robinson, Kennard when healthy), or Drummond down low, or SJ cutting to the basket.

I also wouldn't mind seeing Reggie Jackson run the pick-n-roll with Drummond once in a while.  That worked well last season, and should not be abandoned.  

I would also like to see Jackson and Ish create with the basketball every now and then, although that's a slippery slope.  There's a fine line between creating every now and then, and dribbling the air out of the basketball.

On the bright side, Ellenson and Leuer played well off the bench, and Kennard is only out for 2-4 weeks.  We can use his perimeter shooting.

Let's hope we show better against the Celtics at home.

[Murph]

Well, you knew we we're going to win 82 games. And there is no shame in losing to an elite team like the Celtics on the road, even by 20 points. The problem is, because Griffin is 29, the Celtics are actually younger than we are. They're going to dominate us for years.

I will say that our offense is too predictable. We need more options that just Blake going 1 on 2 or 1 on 3. When Griffin runs the offense, he needs to be a more willing passer, and look for shooters on the perimeter (Bullock, Jackson, Robinson, Kennard when healthy), or Drummond down low, or SJ cutting to the basket.

I also wouldn't mind seeing Reggie Jackson run the pick-n-roll with Drummond once in a while. That worked well last season, and should not be abandoned.

I would also like to see Jackson and Ish create with the basketball every now and then, although that's a slippery slope. There's a fine line between creating every now and then, and dribbling the air out of the basketball.

On the bright side, Ellenson and Leuer played well off the bench, and Kennard is only out for 2-4 weeks. We can use his perimeter shooting.

Let's hope we show better against the Celtics at home.

[cool breeze]

How much of Blake's coldness needs to be attributed to him being defended by 2, 3 guys?

We saw a top defense shut down our primary mode of attack, and not allow effective alternatives.

Kelser talked of adjusting by him taking the ball deeper.

18.9% on 3s.  They'll do better than that.

Stanley productive.  I don't like to see him take 8 3s, but he did make 3 of them tonight, so solid work.

Ellenson played as if he might never get another opportunity (selfishly but with 7 points in 7  minutes).

I was going to praise Glenn R off the bench, until I saw him get blocked three times (in a row).

Leuer sighting.  I think we can be pretty confident at this point he won't be giving us 10 mil per production.  He could help with a few minutes though.

Brown did well off the bench, scoring his first points on a thunder dunk.

Their biggest guys didn't kill us, but the bench.

Awful, awful D again.

Better next time?  Probably, but it's hard to see a win.

Sparma I thought Greg Kelser was perhaps too kind with his evaluation of this complete ass kicking by Boston. I was worried that the Pistons might get blown out early. It was clear within the first 6 minutes that the Pistons had no chance to win. When you have a top tier head coach who actually had a real game plan like coaches prepare in the playoffs, the Pistons are pretty easy to beat with an average team. Griffin's solo act will not work if opposing teams construct a defense like the Celtics had.

Did anyone notice two games ago that players were standing around in place or out of position much like they did when SVG was the head coach? Somehow the starters stopped player and ball movement in the half court offense that had looked so good in their first game of the season. Three of the five players seem to have no role in the offense. In the first game, I saw a lot of screening and player movement where the player with the ball wasn't bent on shooting contested shots. In this game, it appeared as if the 5 starters had never previously played a game together. While Boston players shot uncontested 3 point attempts, our Piston players were content with one player pounding the basketball while the other 4 players stood often too close together as well. Then when the contested shots missed, the floor spacing was so bad that Piston players could not get back to set up a half court defense. Often in the first half, AD was the last player to get back on defense. He played harder n the 2nd half on both ends but proved ineffective when Boston spread the floor and baited AD to switch off his man onto a talented smaller player who was capable of both driving or shooting a mid range jump shot at a high percentage.

The coaching staff gets a failing grade in this game. The Piston players looked confused half way through the first quarter on both offense and defense. The head coach should have noticed the team lacked ball and player movement. Blake going one against five showed pure stupidity. When Casey used both Galloway and bullock together again I thought to myself that Casey must have had blinders on for the two games previous to this blowout. Galloway and Bullock are not showing that they deserve a lot of playing time based on their inability to guard anyone. To have both in the game at the same time is suicide. Neither players seems to be strong enough to be playing against the type of players Boston has on their roster. I think Brown might have provided more toughness in this game. The Pistons lost because they could not defend as a team. Either the players are not coachable or the coaches have no new ideas on how to get the team back on the right course when things are not going well.

My memories from this game will be watching both AD and BG trying to go solo on offense almost every time they touched the basketball. Good players who try that in high school can't get away with it anymore. And it seems that with them forcing it so much, the rest of the players seem to get infected with the same illness. The Pistons played dumb basketball. Boston set a trap with their game plan and sure enough our guys fell right into the trap and never seemed to know what was happening.

Stanley Johnson was the only player I saw who really fought hard on defense.What if Brown has been in the game with Johnson to offer at least two players who care about playing defense? And if there was any bright spot for me was seeing Johnson's jump shot release is much better now. He has scrapped the bogus release SVG's staff taught him the set him on a tailspin into hell for the last two seasons. I believe if this team could generate better ball and player movement Johnson could knock down a lot of open shots or drive it to the rim as perhaps some of the other players like Kennard could potentially do as well when it returns. However, if Casey allows the stand in place offense where there is no screening or action coming to the weak side and everything is centered around BG and AD, then wins are going to be tough to come by. It is too bad Detroit has to play their next game in Boston. It will be pretty hard to go into the next game with much confidence of you are playing for the Pistons.

By the way where is Anthony Tolliver? Oh I almost forgot that Piston management didn't know that he was the best Piston player last season. Now they will need to select from Henry E. or Jon L.. Johnson should be playing a lot of power forward this season with small ball being the theme. By the way thinking of small, Ish Smith is a real ball of fire. He never quits and plays so damn hard. If the Pistons are a stand around team then Smith appears to be the only point guard who can be effective in that type of system where the point guard creates everything. Casey has allowed Griffin to attempt to create everything. Now he will have to create an offense that involves all five players more. He has very little time to do it too as the Celtics lurk in the shadows thinking they have another easy game coming up. I will be happy if Piston players don't settle for contested 3 point shots. Yet if the players do not move without the basketball or set screens for each other, how can the guy with the ball make the extra pass? Clean it up Pistons and learn something from this loss.

[Sparma]

How much of Blake's coldness needs to be attributed to him being defended by 2, 3 guys?

We saw a top defense shut down our primary mode of attack, and not allow effective alternatives.

Kelser talked of adjusting by him taking the ball deeper.

18.9% on 3s. They'll do better than that.

Stanley productive. I don't like to see him take 8 3s, but he did make 3 of them tonight, so solid work.

Ellenson played as if he might never get another opportunity (selfishly but with 7 points in 7 minutes).

I was going to praise Glenn R off the bench, until I saw him get blocked three times (in a row).

Leuer sighting. I think we can be pretty confident at this point he won't be giving us 10 mil per production. He could help with a few minutes though.

Brown did well off the bench, scoring his first points on a thunder dunk.

Their biggest guys didn't kill us, but the bench.

Awful, awful D again.

Better next time? Probably, but it's hard to see a win.

[Sparma]

We're getting sliced up on D. Maybe Boston won't keep shooting at that rate?

How could Daniel Theis be an undrafted guy? He's been killing us in the first half. What a bench, also with Morris.

Terrific swarming D by the Celts.

Strong start by Stanley.

Two beautiful pass in a row ending in Drummond dunks late in the half: a) an alert full court pass by Blake and b) an alley oop by Calderon.

A real wake up call thus far. Blake can't be Superman every game.

[cool breeze]

Don...I think there's some truth in what you mentioned.  The next time the Pistons meet the 76ers, if I were Casey, I'd start Drummond, but pull him after like 6 minutes for Zaza. Then I'd play Zaza starters minutes, and let him wear down Embiid.  Then  late in the 2nd half, I'd reinsert a fresh Drummond on a tired Embiid and see what happens. - Drummond just needs to play BULLY Ball with Embiid, finesse isn't Drummond's strong suit.

One thing is for sure, like BallinD said, Drummond has to quit getting goaded into taking ridiculous shots.  Drummond needs for focus on his defense, footwork, rebounding, shot blocking, etc.  Drummond will never be the offensive player that Embiid is.

That's right, he'll NEVER be the offensive player Embiid is, but the sad thing is that he doesn't need to be, and he doesn't know that yet!

The goal should be to become an NBA Champion, and you do that by giving your team what it needs from your position. We've seen over the years that Drummond can easily get 15-20 points on just put backs and dunks alone... just take that low hanging fruit and call it a day offensively.

Now if he EXCEL on the defensive end, we're golden!

It's more about getting his mind straight than expanding his offensive game.

Finesse is Drummonds only suit.  His nature is SOFT.  I don’t say that as a criticism but an observation of his style of play.  Dre AVOIDS contact on both ends of the floor.  Nothing about his game involves going THROUGH or INTO an opponent.
- Off hand block attempts, while backing up.
- Constant desire to reach for knock-aways
- Out jumping his opponent as opposed to blocking out.
- Jump hooks, fade aways, dipsy-do scoop shots and three point jumpers.
There are no power elements in his game.  
In an era when offensive players enjoy the advantages of being permitted to dislodge, charge into, and push off of defenders I find Dre totally and disappointingly incapable.

LEMONPEN your description of AD is outstanding and the best analysis that I have ever read relating to our big man. That is who AD has always been and that is why many of us have been disappointed in past seasons. With that said, so far I think AD is playing with with more determination and concentration then at any time in his career. I just hope Andre doesn't throw in the towel come January like he has in the past. I would love it if AD plays with great effort for an entire season with no slacking. He seems to be more mature now. I liked his post game interview in the last game against Cleveland.

SPARMA good post on the overtime game re Blake's performance.

ORACLE I like your idea to sub in ZaZa earlier in the game in the first and third quarters for AD until Andre learns that he needs to become more engaged mentally and physically on defense. Last season AD watched Moreland come in and bust his butt on defense and it seemed that AD got more motivated watching Eric play defense in the paint. AD is playing harder in the 4th quarter on D. The problem is that this team needs a superstar paint protector. Our perimeter defenders are below average.

I thought Casey could have done a better job with his combinations in this last game. Neither Bullock or Galloway looked sharp on defense or offense. Kennard of course could not play after the injury but Johnson sat the bench for most of the 2nd half. They could have used his defense or perhaps used one of the rookies for more minutes. However, on the plus side, Reggie Jackson, the player I thought might be washed up, has proven himself to be a real team player who is playing better defense than either Bullock or Galloway now. Reggie is playing off the ball to great effect.

By the way, I noticed that Henry Ellenson was in street clothes in the game against Cleveland. What's up? Is he injured or perhaps about to play in the G-League? I hate the idea of having him just sit on the bench for another season. He needs game experience. Seeing Henry on the bench made be think even more of how dumb it was not to sign Tolliver. Perhaps Leuer will make his debut against the Celtics. The Pistons played exceptionally poorly against the Cavs. The coaching was also sub standard. The coach didn't seem very upset with the 20 turnovers during the game. A win is always nice but who can feel confident that the Pistons won't get blown out against Boston? I just hope Detroit can keep the game close. Hopefully Piston turnovers will not exceed 10 or 11 in this game.

[Sparma]

Yeah, I'm behind, just finished watching that thriller. Great game, great Blake performance, as you all know.

Weird how well into the second quarter, 15 minutes in, Reggie J's the Pistons' main guy, and deservedly so.

Knowing how it ended, it's surprising to hear Kelser praising Detroit's D (and Andre's in particular) on Embiid, saying he hasn't seen them play D like that. Just before that, AD's getting praised because he bumps Joel two, three times, before physical finish (he's not all finesse!).

Blake doesn't want to be here, it's been said. He may well miss stuff about LA, but it's looking like Detroit's a pretty great team for him, one where he can be the man, and his play shows he relishes the leadership role. Two beautiful passes to AD inside as the D draws to him.

Two big concerns about Blake: he's going to get hurt shoving into the likes of Amir Johnson, and he can't keep up his outside shooting like that. That said, he looks like he's really improved his outside shooting, maybe due to the hard summer work he referred to. Last year, it seemed like there were a lot of telegraphed, heavily defended, outside shots that hit the front rim again and again. His outside % will drop, but his form looks good.

AD fouling out. Embiid sold it, hugely exaggerating BUT AD did bop him in the face with the play over. Stupid.

Blake fouling at the end? I don't think they're going to call the initial forearm shiver, but then he keeps his arm on the defender (Covington) holding him down. That's where I think he gets away with one.

Weird how Redick looks like he's going to be the goat near the end, fouling Reggie J, but then Reggie J promptly returns the favor with a dumb foul on Redick.

Embiid's incredible. Doesn't come across as a nice guy, and he's fragile, but he's incredible (eg with his offensive effectiveness while off balance).

Can't believe that Reggie J just might have found a productive role, or had one imposed on him (after that 1st game fiasco).

Looking at the list of Pistons with 50 pt games, it jumps out that Yardley's the only one to do it twice, within about three weeks!

I'm still not sold on the team, but I am sold on Blake have a truly outstanding season if he can stay healthy. Maybe by the end of the year we'll need to go back to young Grant Hill to find an equivalent individual season.

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