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Groundhogs Day

Post  BallinD on Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:48 pm

Is it just me, or has Van Gumby lost this team again with his Panic Mastery, yapping, wacko rotations, riding the cold hand, poor inbounds plays, stubborness, payroll management, lack of imagination and his quacking like a dog?  clown clown

Or he could trade Bradley (like a mercy killing) and Weggie, Galloway, SJ (another mercy killing), then commit seppuku (the final mercy killing). facepalm  Andre said he wants to get in on some of that action...mercy killing.  After all it is only Brooklyn.


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Why the Pistons should never consider giving away any first or 2nd round picks in the near future

Post  cool breeze on Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:46 pm

I have been following Memphis lately trying to figure out what their management team is doing to get their team back on track. They have found young players who cost very little who fit in nicely as rotation players while they wait to build a more competitive team through the draft. I had my eye on two of their players last season as having successful careers in the NBA.
1. Dillon Brooks -age 21- small forward Best player in the PAC12 last season playing for Oregon. This guy was a great team leader who could pull off the impossible to win games as a college player. Oregon went a long way in the NCAA tournament last year and it was too bad that he had an injury in his last two games. I was shocked that no NBA team picked him up until the 2nd round. He was the 47th pick. Meanwhile Fultz was picked number one overall in that same draft. Fultz wasn't good enough to hold Brooks jock strap. Whatever play you needed either on offense or defense, Brooks could make that play for his team. Now he is a rotation player on Memphis and the fans love him. Why wouldn't they? Fans love to see a player who will give up his body and use every ounce of energy to help his team win. You all know how I try to convince others about the value of Stanley Johnson. Who would I rather watch? There is no question that Brooks proved himself as a much better college player than the first rounder Johnson and for sure he is much more fun to watch as a fan. I hope Brooks has a great career in the NBA. I know of no other player who has more heart than he shows when playing basketball. He is averaging 25 minutes and 10+ points per game and makes $815,000.00.
2. Kobi Simmons - point guard - age 20 - drafted number 60. Simmons played well in the first half of last season at Arizona. He got playing time when Alonzo Trier was unable to play and showed that he has good ball handling skills and a sweet stroke from distance. He was playing out of position at the 2 guard because Arizona's head coach had a crush on his starting 5 foot 10 inch point guard still playing this season as a senior. In my opinion Arizona lost in the Sweet 16 because Simmons was on the bench while the starting point guard was getting killed by opposing guards. Simmons was the last player drafted but had full confidence in himself and played well at the Chicago combine. An opportunity lost by the Pistons as SVG felt he had his two ball dominate and predictable point guards in Jackson and Smith. How far off can you get to create your team around two ball dominate point guards. No team can win when you have two point guards who play the same way offensively and do all of the creating instead of working as a team of 5 players who create offense together. And to make matters worse, both of SVG's selected point guards cannot play average NBA defense. They have no answer for teams like Washington. No point guards like Simmons were in the background developing within the Piston organization either. One must come to the conclusion that SVG does not believe that great point guards are needed to win championships. How can that be?

Remember the loss against Chicago which is a team that decided to rebuild yet still kicked the Pistons ass in their last matchup? Did any of you see Lauri Markkanen knock down all those 3 point shots in that game. I didn't see him make any mental mistakes in that game and he showed that he is a fantastic all around player and a great shooter. He did that in college all last season for Arizona. Pro scouts thought he might have trouble playing defense in the NBA. I thought he was a really good defender in college. He played along side a 7 foot center Duson Ristic who is a horrible defender and had to cover for his mistakes so much that he accumulated a lot of fouls. Markkanen was drafted number 7 last summer. He should have been in the top 3. If the Pistons management would have tanked just a little bit instead of winning meaningless games, Detroit could have had Markkanen playing power forward for many years. Markkanen has to be in the running for rookie of the year. He might be better than any current player on this Piston team and Chicago got him at number 7.

Reed Travis - There is no doubt in my mind that Deandre Ayton should be the number one pick in next summers draft. The Pistons won't get him for sure. However, yesterday, Arizona played at Stanford and they have a 4 year power forward/center Reed Travis, who is not even listed on the draft board on NBADRAFTNET. Travis was the best player on the floor in that close game and got Ayton in foul trouble as he was able to get a body on Ayton and use a variety of post up moves to out fox the fox. And Travis has very effective outside shot. He plays solid defense and is a high energy type player. But even better, Travis was a highly rated quarterback in high school. He qualified to attend school at Stanford and not only has a high academic IQ but a high basketball IQ. He has a solid body and loves contact. Travis is in the running for PAC12 player of the year too. So why in hell are the pro scouts so hyped up on Oklahoma's Trea Young? He shot the ball about 40 or more times yesterday. Can you imagine playing on that Oklahoma team with that guy? In the end he never looked at any of his teammates and there were several open and launched that mindless shot that had no change of going in the basket. That is what GMs are looking for these days. The next Curry maybe. So that leads me to believe that if the Pistons had a good management team they would load up on 2nd round picks and develop those plcks for future success. I see no signs that the Pistons have any solid plan for the future. This team is it and there are not enough fundamentally sound players to ever win much more than a game of marbles. Right now Reed Travis could out play Ellenson and Leuer. He is a solid defender and rebounder and no coach would ever have to worry about him being engaged or being in the right place at the right time on either offense or defense.

Payton Prittchard - freshman playing at Oregon - Payton might not enter the draft next summer but I see him as a solid NBA two way player at point guard. Yesterday, he scored 25 points, broke UCLA's press and made every player on his team better in that win. He needs to become more consistent but he was a very highly rated high school point guard who could have gone to any school in the country. How high would his stock be in this coming draft if he did decide to enter the draft. I doubt he is getting much attention from the pro scouts. Most likely he will fall under the radar because few of the experts who list those names as the top rated picks watch much basketball in the West. At any rate I really enjoy watching both Reed and Prittchard play basketball and believe they will have a solid shot to win a lot of playing time in the NBA.

I am only providing this information because it is becoming tiring to watch the various management teams that have been hired by the pistons who are much like our politicians. They throw a lot of money at players who are not good enough to ever be part of a championship caliber team. All of the payroll is taken up by players who have too many flaws and have never ever been part of any championship team in their lives. They are freak athletes but something is missing relating to motivation and skill set. Players are not consistently ready to play hard or smart. The team chemistry is not one that shows me they are confident of winning. We have better players this season and they play harder. But most of the payroll is taken up by Andre Drummond, Reggie Jackson, and Tobias Harris. AD at times can hold his own at the center position but is not worth the money he is making. Tobias Harris can score but has shooting slumps and then is a liability on defense against some power forwards. Reggie Jackson and Ish Smith will never be successful in a playoff situation because neither can match well on defense against any NBA starting guard combination. Neither can guard point guards or 2 guards well and opposing teams will target them as the weak link in the playoffs.

Meanwhile the Detroit news outlets are featuring the news that Jon Leuer will now be out for the season. Did those reporters watch any of the Piston games last season. Is that news release something Piston management through out as a reason why the Pistons are now in the 9th position. Maybe being in last place would be a good thing for the future of the Pistons. How about trading AD, RJ and Harris for some first and 2nd round picks? Take on some bad contracts as long as they are not as big as the players we will lose.

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Hit The Self-destruct Button Seems More Reasonable

Post  WTF on Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:26 am

Definitely too late to be talking about Win Now when you're sitting 9th in the conference half way through the season.  That's the type of thing SVG should have been saying back in July 2017 it's certainly what I've been screaming as far back as 2 seasons ago.

As far as unleashing Kennard that should have been the mind set of SVG from the start of the seasons but for whatever reason he decided it was better to yank Kennard's chain when there was every indication he needed to start games.  IMO I think it would have benefitted both Bradley and Kennard if their roles were reversed.  I think Bradley would better and more consistent if he came off the bench and based off of SVG words one would think it might have been smart to give Kennard time at the PG position as well.

Blowing it up well I've been screaming that as well or at least screaming a mini version of a blow up.  It's not hard to see the it need to happen the proof is in the pudding that this puddin is only generically good.  Yes AD numbers are good sometimes even great but he's not as advertised, he's not franchise and he never should have been looked at in that fashion. Now SVG has a problem with pulling back from that especially after over paying him.

I like Harris much in the way I liked Prince, Tripucka, Dantley, Aquire they all fitted into a role some better than others, but I don't see Harris as I saw other SF like Hill, Rodman and Big Nasty.  Is Harris a nice piece to have? Yes he is but he not going to consistently carry any team every game.  I'm really not shocked he's slumped a few times already.  

There was opportunity to move Reggie before the season started, there was opportunity early in the season and SVG for whatever reason didn't.  My gut was in overdrive that Reggie was all but gone.  This is just one of a hand full of reasons SVG needs to go and he's insane to be talking win now when it should have been the plan immediately at the end of last season.  So unless your going to tell me that we just added Cousins, Walker, Mirotic to go along with Harris, Andre, and Kennard for the next 2 or 3 seasons this team isn't going nowhere any time soon.   More importantly SVG would still have remove himself from them if it did happen.
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BLow up this season and start fresh next season

Post  Phil1980boy on Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:34 am

The Pistons are headed to the Place where Superman sends outcast. The Phantom ZONE! NOWHERE FAST!

Blow this S.H.I.T up.. I'm telling you. WIN NOW! WHITH WHO? WITH WHAT?

DRUMMONDS? 300 pounds, soft, can't block shots, can't really defend? lol lol

R.Jackson? Asthma attacks? Takes the game for A joke majority of the time? lol

Be serious? Be real with your-self? The Pistons are not A win now team. Even if they're 100000% healthy.

This team is build around joke players.

I would keep T.Harris, Luke Kennard, Ish Smith and I would trade everybody else in A heart beat!

If the Pistons decide to do A mini rebuild start with moving R.Jackson, Avery Bradley and Stanley Johnson. Don't move any draft picks but try to add picks.

Also, I would move on from Van Gundy. This win now talk really worried me big--time!

I would go out and find A Pistons DNA type of guy. My top choice would be Tayshaun Prince. Next would be Billups. If Possible, I would bring both in to run this Organization with direct orders to build for the future!

I would love to see what Luke, Drummonds and T.Harris could do with A high draft pick Point Guard and A high draft pick Power Forward? Get top talent in those two spots and now we talking about A win now team.
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Picking up the pieces

Post  Sparma on Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:43 pm

@Don: No doubt PG play makes a big difference. If we'd switched PGs I suspect we would have been winning by or more. Interesting observation about women's basketball. I'll venture a generalization about top flight soccer: women's soccer tends to be more fundamentally sound, while men's depends more on individual virtuosity. Sounds analogous to your observation.

Here's the imagined conversation I see as being at the root of our problems:

SVG: Following my blueprint, we'll win now while improving incrementally moving forward, leading to even more winning.
Gores: I was hoping you'd say that.
SVG: In order for my plan to succeed, I need to be the top executive as well as the coach. I don't want a repeat of Orlando, where others managed to undercut my design.
Gores: That's not a problem. In fact, it sounds necessary.
SVG: I'll also need enough time to bring my grand design to fruition.
Gores: Will five years suffice?
SVG: Yes, partner.

@BallinD: That's an epic rant.

I didn't want to say much about Boban, because I gone on too much about him, but, dang it, you're right. SVG needed to put him in the 3rd (if not earlier) to end the run. Wall destroyed us with his penetration, often followed by passes to the exterior. With Boban behind Ish and Bradley, the penetration's not so damaging. Also, with a giant inside, defenders can play farther out, actually defending the 3s better (as Kelser noted earlier). And of course he gets the dismal O into a working structure.
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They're Going Down

Post  BallinD on Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:06 pm

The Bad Ship Pusstons, taking on water, tuning out the Panic Master, the liar SVG, who refuses to keep it real.  

Man, that is one butt-ugly offense, no flow, motion, just jumpers and a few cuts to the basket here and there.  Can we get a point guard in here who knows how to run an offense, but, oh wait, there is no offense to run.  Teams have sniffed out the DHO, but we keep running it (with Bradley driving and bricking).  Any variations SVG? Let Kennard take the handoffs, Tobias, but almost only Bradley is almost always all bad.)

We can't score, but we keep our top offensive player on the bench, while Moreland, our defensive stopper stops no one and  racks up a minus 11 in 5 minutes, meanwhile our $127 M man puts up  only 5 shots.  But no Boban, who can stop runs with the best of them, and who protects the rim at least as well as Dre.  We can't score but we release Luke after it is too late.  There is no flow, no strategy, no synnergy, just loud complaints by SVG. And the fifth worst offensive rating in the NBA.

Bright spot!  SJ played a few good minutes and slowed down Oubre.  Luke taking and hitting the shots he needs to be taking more regularly. Dre did rebound and flirted with a triple double.  Bullock splashed a few, but nobody looks for him when he is open.  What a weapon to ignore!  Wow!

Dre: I just wasn't in the flow of the offense to really get some shots off. I'm a defensive stopper. I grab rebounds and I get my teammates open. I think we should do a better job of getting everybody a little more involved."
He's a defensive stopper?

Oh, wait...we are playing poor defense because our best defender...Weggie?? is injured, is that supposed to be the narrative we gotta swallow:

SVG:  "I'm a little frustrated with myself, coaching-wise, adjustments, whatever it is, but our defense is too inconsistent," coach Stan Van Gundy said. "I'm used to offensively being inconsistent, particularly when you're down your starting point guard (Reggie Jackson), but our defense is too inconsistent.


When teams make their runs, what does SVG do?  Nothing!  If the team is making a run and we do the same thing we were doing when they started making the run, then that is on coaching.  Call a timeout, run a play.  Get another player or two on the court.  When they made their run in the second half, he sat on his hands for us to go down by 20, but is that all on the players, or is it on SVG? How long did it take for him to substitute and get Tolliver in there?  Ish on Beal was a bad look, but does Doofus recognize it?  No!

He's used to the offense being inconsistent.  We better get used to that too.  Oh wait, we already are.  Welcome to the new normal and Stan, by his own statements, is used to it.  He has accepted that we have to play Moreland and the worst possible offense cause "I'm used to being offensively inconsistent."  Isn't offense half of the game?  You're just gonna give up, and do basically nothing?


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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:50 pm

Sparma wrote:Watched the replay this morning; nice to have the breaks pretty much cut away.

As I remember the Pistons got up 29-14 with a little more than a minute to play in the 1st, with Wash scoring the last 5.  That fifteen point lead became a 20 point Wash lead.  A 35 point swing!!!  From that last minute or so of the 1st quarter until the 4th quarter they outscored us by 32.

The silver lining: we really outplayed Wash at the beginning and in the 4th quarter (except at the end!).  Dre was fantastic much of the game, picking up 8 assists (in spite of being two fine in threading the needle a couple of times, leading to TOs). Kennard was fantastic (esp. in the 4th.).  When your O generally struggles, how can you afford not to give a shooter like that more minutes?  Stanley J. had some excellent plays, including bulling through two guys for a TO, leading to a Tolliver finish (Doris Burke, correctly, also called him out for taking a couple of ill-advised shots [once he'd had a bit of success].  Moreland had a couple of excellent offensive plays, including a pretty hook; not surprisingly, he also led (?) the team with -11 in 4 minutes.

I won't go into all the things Wash did well while clobbering us.  Wall coming alive in the 3rd was the key in that hideous (45 points for Wash!!) third quarters.  But they just had too many weapons, especially with Oubre playing the game of his life.

As the announcers pointed out, things started falling apart for Detroit initially (at the end of the 1st) with the subs in.  No O, combined with TOs.  I've really liked Buycks, but he cost them.  He had a sequence of three bad plays in a row, including failing to dunk on a breakaway, getting blocked instead (he gets blocked a lot!), and having a bad TO that just seemed careless.  He came in second with -9 in 6 minutes.

But the starters were in there for most of the 3rd quarter when Wash pulled away.  Terrible D then (and I do believe Dre needs his share of the blame in that stretch; positioning's still not his forte).

Just not good enough.  Yes, the D was terrible while the game was being lost, but the inconsistent, or consistently ineffective, O's a killer.  There's often very little pattern to the O, which is partly why I keep calling for Boban, who allows for a structured and effective O.  Weird hearing the announcers reporting SVG saying that he needs to figure out how to generate O with a lack of guys creating their own O, when he's got the most efficient offensive player in NBA history sitting next to him.

A good game for a neutral observer to watch, with lots of good plays from both sides.  

I miss the 80s too, Wise, especially being 30 years younger (but it was fun to watch the Bad Boys then too).

Sparma you provided an honest assessment of this game. While losing against Toronto, I was optimistic because I think our Pistons could have a chance to beat Toronto in the playoffs. Washington is another matter. It puzzles me as to why that team is not doing a lot better especially the way they continually beat Detroit. What I like about your post is that you provided details about what you saw in this specific game. Buycks really did play solid on both ends until he signed his new contract. Maybe all the stress of playing on the fringe and then celebrating and feeling the comfort that a guaranteed contract brings has caused him to lose that edge he showed us earlier. Now he will ride the pine or the cold metal in the new arena for awhile and await his next chance if it ever comes.

While you have provided an honest effort with your description of the game, other media outlets provide us with other reasons why the Pistons are on this losing streak. We are missing rotation pieces in Jon Leuer and Reggie Jackson. Yes that is why our team is losing. Reggie Jackson could never guard Wall or Beal to save his life at any time in his career. And Washington has the answer with their defense to stop SVG's offense that bases everything on dribble happy point guards. What I saw was lack of effort on defense by our Pistons in the 3rd quarter where the players did not play like a real team. If the shots don't fall easily you can't slack off on defense. The opposite must happen if you want to win. Meanwhile, after the game I watched some great basketball that wasn't the typical circus act that the NBA provides. I watched Oregon and Oregon State women duke it out in a very exciting overtime game where Oregon State beat 7th ranked Oregon. The women on both teams were very athletic and played smart. Oregon played multiple defenses using a variety of zone full court pressure, 3/4 court woman to woman press with the hit and switch John Wooden style defense that always can create a few turnovers. But Oregon State women seldom turned the ball over and their point guard and 2 guards were outstanding play makers. Some of the outside shots made by both teams beyond the 3 point line against pressure and in crunch time was amazing to watch. Both teams shot free throws well. And a big plus was the fact that many of the athletes looked beautiful. There is nothing more pleasing for my eyes to see than fine looking women who are in outstanding physical condition and are fully engaged in sporting events as participants not watchers. It doesn't matter what sport it might be either. To see females who love athletics and have more interests than shopping gives me great hope for the future. My wife has suggested that I might have more fun watching college women's basketball than the NBA or the men's college basketball. After watching that game last night I had to admit she is correct as she has always been throughout our long marriage. If I were living in Oregon, I would be purchasing season tickets depending on how close I lived to either college. Oregon State had a fully packed arena. No empty seats. People will come out to see high basketball IQ players perform and both teams had many filling out their teams.

Fans want something more regarding professional basketball. I am tired of watching too many freak athletes blessed by the Gods with outstanding bodies who get playing time and too much attention from media without doing the hard work of learning how to play the game the right way. Bill Laimbeer said he has has lost interest in watching the NBA game. Attending college basketball games is much more exciting that what is offered by the NBA front office. There are college students who show great emotion and get their team jacked up. You can feel the excitement before the game starts. And the rules in the college game make things more interesting as more strategy is involved. Teams are allowed to play multiple defenses and players on offense have to be better prepared to run a offense based on what kind of defense is being played. If the NBA allowed multiple defenses to be employed we could see minor market teams have more success as they could create a teams with a specific identity stacking their teams with players who can excel playing multiple zone defenses full court, 3/4 court and so on. Increase the time on the shot clock instead of decreasing the amount time a team can hold the ball. Instead many want to speed up the game even more so the NBA can be true AAU style run and gun. The fans watch teams turnover the ball 25 times a game and think nothing of it. I think fans are tired of watching players drive the lane with no opposition. Dunking is pretty boring for many of us. And of course the NBA All Star game features a dunking contest. WOW! Who watches the All Star game anymore? I don't know anyone who watches it. The early rounds of the NBA playoffs can be exciting too. But the NBA has become too predictable. The game is too long, there is very little strategy involved ( as Ish Smith says, the NBA game is simply read and react), and there are too many NBA teams who play too many games. Will greed bring the NBA crashing down as the arenas continue to remain almost empty in many cities where tax payers have funded those arenas? Maybe the time will come where the ratings are down so low that the NBA will tear up all guaranteed contracts and play games where the winner takes all and any style of defense can be used to help out teams who have less talent. Tennis players and golfers have no guaranteed contracts unless they are playing in an exhibition event. Wouldn't that cause players to become more "engaged". That new arena in Detroit would be packed full. Just dreaming for something better to offer more excitement because something is missing when thinking about regular season NBA games.

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Outscored by 32 in the heart of the game

Post  Sparma on Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:39 pm

Watched the replay this morning; nice to have the breaks pretty much cut away.

As I remember the Pistons got up 29-14 with a little more than a minute to play in the 1st, with Wash scoring the last 5. That fifteen point lead became a 20 point Wash lead. A 35 point swing!!! From that last minute or so of the 1st quarter until the 4th quarter they outscored us by 32.

The silver lining: we really outplayed Wash at the beginning and in the 4th quarter (except at the end!). Dre was fantastic much of the game, picking up 8 assists (in spite of being two fine in threading the needle a couple of times, leading to TOs). Kennard was fantastic (esp. in the 4th.). When your O generally struggles, how can you afford not to give a shooter like that more minutes? Stanley J. had some excellent plays, including bulling through two guys for a TO, leading to a Tolliver finish (Doris Burke, correctly, also called him out for taking a couple of ill-advised shots [once he'd had a bit of success]. Moreland had a couple of excellent offensive plays, including a pretty hook; not surprisingly, he also led (?) the team with -11 in 4 minutes.

I won't go into all the things Wash did well while clobbering us. Wall coming alive in the 3rd was the key in that hideous (45 points for Wash!!) third quarters. But they just had too many weapons, especially with Oubre playing the game of his life.

As the announcers pointed out, things started falling apart for Detroit initially (at the end of the 1st) with the subs in. No O, combined with TOs. I've really liked Buycks, but he cost them. He had a sequence of three bad plays in a row, including failing to dunk on a breakaway, getting blocked instead (he gets blocked a lot!), and having a bad TO that just seemed careless. He came in second with -9 in 6 minutes.

But the starters were in there for most of the 3rd quarter when Wash pulled away. Terrible D then (and I do believe Dre needs his share of the blame in that stretch; positioning's still not his forte).

Just not good enough. Yes, the D was terrible while the game was being lost, but the inconsistent, or consistently ineffective, O's a killer. There's often very little pattern to the O, which is partly why I keep calling for Boban, who allows for a structured and effective O. Weird hearing the announcers reporting SVG saying that he needs to figure out how to generate O with a lack of guys creating their own O, when he's got the most efficient offensive player in NBA history sitting next to him.

A good game for a neutral observer to watch, with lots of good plays from both sides.

I miss the 80s too, Wise, especially being 30 years younger (but it was fun to watch the Bad Boys then too).
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ASG Format

Post  WTF on Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:56 am

Not sure I'm feeling about the new ASG Format but I guess it don't hurt to try something different.  I don't think a new format is needed just a simple renew of what was traditionally good about the ASG.   You know again I stress my love of the 80's for numerous reasons but the level of competiveness is always at the forefront.  

Magic, Bird, MJ, Zeke and others really wanted to win those games, is was truly of the ideal my conference is better than your conference and they wanted to prove it.   Yes they wanted to showcase they're individual talents and skills but they also wanted to win that game.  Question when was the last time we saw some mind blowing display of talent in an ASG?

Maybe the should do like baseball that no matter what your record the conference that wins automatically gets home-court advantage in Finals, do something to motivate the level of competiveness in this game.  The NBA does far too much to appease fans these day that it is slowly diminishing the traditions that have long worked.  So here they are with this video game fantasy format.  

I MISS THE 80'S
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Trade(s)?

Post  Sparma on Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:19 am

I'd love for us to make a good trade, but I'm skeptical that it's going to happen now.

Read a while ago about the possibility of Bradley to Cleveland for Shumpert and Brooklyn's high 1st rounder, then saw that rumor recirculated recently. No way that Cleveland goes for that (it was in a longer list of trades).

Stan's made some good trades, e.g. for Harris, but with him becoming desperate it seems likely he'd be inclined to give up too much of the future (when he may not even be around). For instance, I rate Ellenson highly. Wouldn't want to see him go as a mere throw in.

If they get some kind of cap relief with Leuer out for the season, that could help. 5 mil in cap space is the possibility I saw?

Couldn't watch Wash live; not sure I feel for watching the replay with another disastrous second half.
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Guess Who's Sitting 9th In The Conference SMH

Post  WTF on Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:35 pm

Just AMAZING  facepalm
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Just Thinking

Post  WTF on Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:08 pm

Be nice if SVG wasn't the coach because I would love to have both Walker and Howard.  I could live with Howards deal for the next 2 seasons I think this would be ideal if we could keep Andre, Harris, Ellenson and Kennard in the process.  I like Batum but not at that cost.

I have no problem giving up a 1st, or losing Tolliver, SJ to go along with Reggie in exchange for Walker or Batum.  IMO this would make us as good as the Raptors but not better than the Celtics or Cavs.   There's obvious some merit to the Davies rumor and one of them could very well end up with him if I was betting I say the Cavs.   Cousins was also mention as well.   

In any case the Pistons need to get a 3rd team involved perhaps maybe the Bulls would be nice if we could end up with Mirotic.  Still though in the back of my mind even if these move came to fruition SVG would find some way to mess it up.  If he can't properly coach this current group what difference does it make who's on the roster.
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Don, Sparma & Game

Post  Oracle on Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:56 pm

Don wrote:The combination of Walker and Bradley could be very powerful. I might be the only person on this forum who really likes Avery Bradley and still have difficulty understanding that but Oracle does point out that I am really stupid so that might be it.
Two things, first, That was my first thought, that Bradley & Walker could be very powerful, even though they would form a tiny backcourt, but the part that keeps eluding you is that Bradley is a gonner for several reasons, if we can move him, we should.

Secondly Don, I hardly think you're stupid, but that doesn't mean you can't do a pretty good imitation of stupid at times(I'm not immune either). You love to make the silly insults when all you need to do is make your point. I find no joy saying these things about some of your posts, and generally seek to avoid commenting on it until you just get crazy and I have no choice.

Here's to wishing we can get back the thoughtful guy that I used to want to read and missed when you weren't posting.
Sparma wrote:For what it's worth, I played official, organized, basketball in HS, and soccer in college.  Although I think having played can make a difference in analysis, it generally carries little or no advantage, and even can be a hindrance.  Illustrating the advantage of experience, if someone who's played football starts talking about what it's like in the huddle, or in a pile up, I defer, not having played.  Notoriously many players, with some exceptions, poo poo statistical analysis, or just know little about it.  That can be a problem, when the expert eye test is held as the single authority, when (I think) it generally should be paired with quantifiable analysis.  Figuring out Avery Bradley's a case in point on our Pistons.  Knowing that he's got a TO problem guides the eye to try to discern why.
Great point Sparma! I know a lot of people that never played organized ball that can break down games and provide insight better than those that have.

Don knows that most here have some experience, which is why he uses the insult as he does. He generally likes to use it on me because he knows I've played organized ball and he seeks to hurt. Truthfully the first time he said it, it did upset me a lot because I respected his opinion, but I pay little attention anymore.

He doesn't need to put others down to try to make himself seem smarter, it's a losing game.

Game: Man how the mighty have fallen, but with 10 minutes left, Kennard hits a 3 to pull us within 12. I really hope we can bring this one home, I come to dislike the Wizards because they beat us so much.
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Don/ Organized ball

Post  Sparma on Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:07 pm

For what it's worth, I played official, organized, basketball in HS, and soccer in college. Although I think having played can make a difference in analysis, it generally carries little or no advantage, and even can be a hindrance. Illustrating the advantage of experience, if someone who's played football starts talking about what it's like in the huddle, or in a pile up, I defer, not having played. Notoriously many players, with some exceptions, poo poo statistical analysis, or just know little about it. That can be a problem, when the expert eye test is held as the single authority, when (I think) it generally should be paired with quantifiable analysis. Figuring out Avery Bradley's a case in point on our Pistons. Knowing that he's got a TO problem guides the eye to try to discern why.
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Will Cleveland get George Hill next?

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:12 pm

It seems that whenever labron has a slight doubt that his team is good enough to make the finals, somehow Cleveland management is able to make something out of nothing and get the player Labron wants. Your wish is my command. The league bends down and grants his wish. And this is Cleveland not the Lakers. Labron James is one powerful man not only on the court but in the Court of Special Situations in the NBA Front office. Will the powers that run everything make a deal possible so George Hill can join the Cavaliers? Labron might think his team needs a big point guard. Wow that sure strays from the norm. Maybe George Hill is not as good as he used to be when he posted close to the basket and could shoot over our point guards at will when he was with Indiana. But Hill would be a huge upgrade from what we have now. But the way of the NBA is to select 4 teams and load them up with excessive talent and let the rest of the suffering teams suffer even more. I keep saying along with many others that the NBA is losing fan interest because there is not enough high quality players to spread around to all of the teams. The NBA has expanded way too much out of pure greed. All I see now is a lot of empty seats unless you watch one of the designated super teams.

I would for sure love to see Walker or Hill play for the Pistons. But i would hate to see Piston management give up too much to the point where the team is starting over again. It appears that Charlotte is looking to tank and get a strong position in this next draft. Whenever I attend a home game for Arizona this season there are about 30 scouts with GMs hovering around D. Ayton. As Shaq has said, this guy is a once in a generation type player relating to big men. Teams around the league who have no chance of winning squat like our Pistons are willing to give up a outstanding player like Walker and might not require a team like Detroit giving up all of our young developing players. Maybe they would like our number one pick which I always hate giving up. But I can't see them taking on Reggie Jackson's contract. Maybe they would accept Ish Smith and other Piston players to make the deal work. But which players would that involve?

The combination of Walker and Bradley could be very powerful. I might be the only person on this forum who really likes Avery Bradley and still have difficulty understanding that but Oracle does point out that I am really stupid so that might be it. Bradley played with the high scoring Thomas last season. Opposing teams placed their strongest guard defender on Thomas not Bradley. Bradley had a much easier time playing off Thomas. He could also save a lot of energy to defend the best guard opposing Boston. Now it is different. Bradley is supposed to defend the opponents best guard and also be a go two clutch shooter. He is still making incredible cuts and getting open on a dysfunctional offense but making those shots has been a lot tougher. Place Bradley with Walker and I think things would really click in a big way. The Pistons might have one of the quickest and most productive guard combinations in the entire NBA. I would love to at least see it and would not want to throw in Bradley and if Charlotte is tanking maybe they would worry that Bradley might make their team win more games than they want to win.

Maybe a multiple team trade could take place where the Pistons come out shinning. The player that I would put on the trade market now is Andre Drummond. Unless Piston management believes AD is the Pistons future and our franchise player and can lead the team to the promise land, then now is the time to get something really good to give the Pistons a chance to win a championship. I hate losing any of the players that I have pulled for over the past few seasons. I couldn't wait for Charlie V to be gone or when Jason Maxiell was no longer our starting power forward. But for those who have shown grit and promise at times it never a sure thing that they won't suddenly awaken and become winning type players. Kemba Walker is a winning type of player. We will have to give up something substantial to get him. I would like to get a bigger prize than Walker for Drummond. For Drummond I want the number one over all draft pick next summer. That would be a great deal for the Pistons. Detroit could draft D. Ayton who is going to be an All Star within two seasons if not sooner. He has the body, the mind, and the personality to attract a lot of really good players to play with him. If not the number one overall pick then Piston management needs to come up with a plan to secure an athletic defensive minded center who has a high basketball IQ, get Walker, and not lose too many of the core young talent the Pistons now have on the roster. Losing RJ and bringing in Walker seems impossible. Can a miracle happen? Is there any interest at all in Reggie Jackson considering his injury history and his contract? I do not really think there is any way to move Reggie Jackson at this time. Damn it all. I would love to get Walker in a Piston uniform.

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The Trade n Stuff

Post  BallinD on Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:52 pm

Do the damn trade with Bradley and SJ.  At least, we know Batum would get minutes in SVG's system and Kennard could start or back him up, vice versa with Bullock.  Kemba is our alpha, a better alpha than we've had since the going to work days.  Tobias is our go-to scorer to support Kemba.

Kemba would kill with the Dribble Hand Off, and we need to do it with Tobias more so than Bradley, who is one of our worst finishers at the rim, just a tick ahead of SJ (good riddance).  SVG would not have to labor and overthink his bad thinking.  Can we throw Weggie in?  Only problem with this scenario is it mite save SVG's job.  Coney Islands look out.

Now we have two stars, well one plus Dre. I like our chances a lot better.  If we get Marvin Williams too, we could be fire! We won't be able to keep Bradley anyway, come on, anybody can see that, right?!?!
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Batum

Post  Murph on Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:09 pm

Batum plays SG is Charlotte, so he would probably step into that starting role in Detroit.  I'm guessing his defense is worse than Bradley's but his scoring and playmaking skills are better.  In fact, Batum might be able to facilitate the motion offense better than Bradley, in that he averages many more assists than Bradley.

The other way to go would be to make Batum the starting SF, which is where is played in Portland. If he returned to SF, we have to keep either Bradley or Kennard, along with Galloway.
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The friends of Carlotta(with apologies to Steve Martin)

Post  Oracle on Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:00 pm

He’s averaging 21.7 points and 5.8 assists per game and is shooting nearly 35 percent from 3-point range.

Murph, in this case I would try to keep Bradley unless we can get a SG in return, but Tolliver, Stanley Johnson, Reggie and a first should do it, but there is the possibility that they would want one more young piece, and that might mean Ellenson.

I'd give up Bradley before giving up Ellenson, but this is a deal that could really alter the current season.

Gotta say that while I wasn't with you on drafting Walker, I wasn't against you, I didn't see picking either as a losing situation at the time.

However, now, I want Walker badly! If SVG can pull this off, he has a PG to build around and could save this season and give us hope for the future, IMO.
Murph wrote:According to the article to the right, Walking is indeed on the trading block.  But in order to get him, the Pistons would have to take on a bad contract, such as Batum's.  And that RJ would have to be part of the deal.

I'd probably do that trade.  I'd give up RJ, Bradley's expiring contract, Tolliver's expiring contract and some combination of our most marketable assets (Kennard, our 1st round pick, SJ and Ellenson).

I'd certainly like to hold onto Kennard and the 1st rounder, if possible.  But I'm guessing SVG might pull out all the stops in an effort to acquire Walker and Batum, in order to save his job.  

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SMH

Post  Oracle on Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:47 pm

Don wrote:I read some of the nonsense on this forum and wonder if any of you have ever played on an organized basketball team.
Amazing, the guy that can't hold complex ideas in his head, can't read to save his life, and misunderstands damn near everything posted, is insulting people again. I'd try to explain these things to you, but like water on a ducks back, what's the point.

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Trade With Charlotte

Post  Murph on Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:28 pm

According to the article to the right, Walking is indeed on the trading block. But in order to get him, the Pistons would have to take on a bad contract, such as Batum's. And that RJ would have to be part of the deal.

I'd probably do that trade. I'd give up RJ, Bradley's expiring contract, Tolliver's expiring contract and some combination of our most marketable assets (Kennard, our 1st round pick, SJ and Ellenson).

I'd certainly like to hold onto Kennard and the 1st rounder, if possible. But I'm guessing SVG might pull out all the stops in an effort to acquire Walker and Batum, in order to save his job.

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It's All On SVG

Post  WTF on Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:14 pm

There's no one single player that is cause or effect of this teams woes IMO.   We have some decent pieces they're not perfect pieces by no means so IMO what ails this team the most is the inability of management and the coaching staff to recognize this.  

I don't think we have a roster where the pieces can come together all at once, I don't think there will ever be chemistry that allows this team to consistently function on the same page.  IMO the players on this team are selfish,  and don't play smart at all and I put that on SVG because he is not a good coach and in fact I'm starting to think he's an horrible coach.  

Let's talk Heat Check.  This bothers me to no end and is largely in part why I criticize the numbers of 3's this team takes.  If a players 0-4 on 3's why are you still shooting them beyond that.  For whatever reason the players have a hard time recognizing who's hot and who's not it's like a contest out there to see who can jack up the most 3's miss or make.   This happens because again SVG has 2 plays still and just because he added more movement and motion to them don't make it more than 2 plays.

I'm still convince that if we took better shots, high percentage shots throughout the game or record would be a lot better.  I believe we lose games like the one we just loss because offensively we don't play smart. Again this is SVG fault.

I really do miss the days of smart players and smart coaching.  I seeing the PG coming up the court directing the offense and running plays,  Zeke and CB did this game after game.  They found the hot hand be it Rip coming off screens, or Joe in corner for an uncontested 3.  I seeing weak side help on defense  be it Rodman/Salley out of nowhere for the block or the Wallace's controlling the paint.   I definitely miss all the smart coaching we had from 1980 to 2009.   

Basketball is really starting to suck
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Bradley is the problem and not our inept point guards Jackson and Smith. What are you smoking during the games?

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:25 pm

I read some of the nonsense on this forum and wonder if any of you have ever played on an organized basketball team. The head of the snake is the point guard on most basketball teams. When you have point guards who have the bad habit of creating offense for themselves at the expense of their team you have a dysfunctional basketball team. The Pistons are a dysfunctional basketball team like many other NBA teams currently calling themselves the best in the world. What a joke. I imagine that the top Euro teams could destroy our Pistons in a best of 7 game matchup. Our Isiah Thomas has said the most meaningful things about the current way many NBA teams play basketball including our Pistons. He holds our point guards as perhaps among the worst in the league where there are many like ours. Point guards who have great minds over the physical are the best leaders and help their teams win win championships more than any point guard who is dribble happy with a shoot first mentality. The debate over Reggie Jackson and Ish Smith actually makes me laugh. Both are wrong for the Piston organization if they ever want to be successful. Yet both are crowd pleasers much like Will Bynum. There were posters on this forum who defended everything Will Bynum did as he provided the circus act for a losing Piston team. Piston management is providing a circus act year after year and you fans debate which clown is better than the other. How about getting a true point guard who knows how to make his teammates better players? You have to look in a different direction than what is currently popular among the fickly GM group thought. For instance, the number one pick in the 2016 draft was the point guard from Washington. He was not a true point guard. He was a shooting specialist who only looked for his shot who never learned how to play defense or how to beak down a defense and get the ball to his teammates. GMs overlooked everything maybe because of the power for some sports agents who like to promote their clients based on stats instead of how the player affected winning and losing games. Washington was a horrible basketball team and this guy was the number one pick over players like Boston's small forward rookie or Chicago's power forward dead eye shooter rookie who seldom creates a turnover.

Meanwhile Philly knocks off Boston and one player who played a big part along with Embiid was TJ McConnell. McConnell has been overlooked by everyone except his teammates who had the good fortune to play with him leading their teams. He was overlooked but deserved player of the year in the PAC12 despite Bill Walton's plea along with many other people who really know basketball. Then he was not drafted by any NBA team. Philly picked him up and he won a spot on their team the next fall. After playing one season, instead of SVG going after McConnell as the back up point guard, they over paid for Ish Smith who was not in Philly's plans for the future. At the time Philly was the worst basketball team in the NBA but they didn't want Smith. Why was that? Could it be that Smith is a ball dominate point guard who has to have the ball in his hands to be effective. Philly suffered going though many years of losing to eventually win through the draft. They had picked up some real promising players that way and didn't want to ruin things with a ball dominate point guard. So in Philly's win against Boston, McConnell quietly scored 15 points without dominating the basketball, had 3 steals by playing smart defense, got two rebounds and 2 assists in 25 minutes of play. What he did managing the offense and making Joel Embiid look like the 2nd coming was his special gift to his team. McConnell is the son of a basketball coach. All he cares about is winning games. He plays the right way for his team. He places his team first instead of 2nd. What is the value of a TJ McConnell type point guard in the NBA? What do you think after watching our teams flounder around for so many years? If there is any reason to fire this head coach it should be for the reason that he has failed to identify what this team needs most. We need a real point guard like Isiah Thomas keeps saying over and over. Our team has no identity because of the type of point guards SVG places on the hardwood for Piston fans to watch. I hate watching those kind of point guards. Yet you fans seem to keep enjoying the circus act. I am sure the rest of the roster players are sick and tired of playing for ball dominate point guards.

So keep on finding fault with Avery Bradley's game. then next season you can pick apart his replacement as well. Avery is adjusting to this dysfunctional team. It takes time to do that. It is almost impossible to be successful if you are a 2 guard on this Piston team or any Piston team in the last 6 years. He is too small. He misses too many shots. His defense sucks. Why is he defending the best opponent's guard all the time? Why was Ish Smith defending a 6 foot 7 inch player ago while Bradley was playing defense against Kemba Walker? Maybe you missed that? SVG couldn't trust Smith to guard starting caliber point guards? He also cannot trust Reggie Jackson to guard starting caliber point guards.

The Pistons problems do not involve the recent cold shooting of Tobias Harris or anything Avery Bradley does for the Pistons. Everything relating to losing or winning involve how engaged Andre Drummond is for an entire game as a two way player and how selfish the point guards happen to be from game to game. If Smith starts and plays most of the game then he needs to give up the basketball 85% of the time early in the shot clock, set a screen and move without the basketball. Let other players help create the Piston offense. How about that idea SVG? How can this coach tolerate his point guards from game to game? When will he try a TJ McConnell type point guard just for an experiment? No it won't happen because Piston fans are stat obsessed and determine their evaluation on stats. What is the scoring average and shooting percentage of this of that player? They love the excitement that Reggie Jackson brings with his drama at the end of games? I personally liked the old Bad Boys who beat the hell out of their opponents by playing solid smart basketball so that it never came down to the closing seconds of games. They had dominated their opponents so badly mentally and physically that it never depended on blind luck. We depend on blind luck because of our dysfunctional point guard play.

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A few more observations, including a preposterous suggestion

Post  Sparma on Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:23 pm

Thanks Oracle!

I agree about the PG. I'm an Ish fan, but Reggie's better with Drummond (and maybe worse with most teammates). His passing's a plus skill for centers, and credit to SVG for (finally) finding a way to feature that skill.

More on Bradley: he gets trapped in tight quarters more than anyone else, leading to crummy passes. This is due to a combination of things, but especially size (Ish is small, but he doesn't get cornered often due to speed, pretty good dribbling ability, and a good passing eye). In my view, the guy who gets closed in second most frequently is Kennard. That's worrisome, although there's much to like about the guy. His greater size than Bradley and superior shooting ability means he does somewhat better than Bradley when hemmed in.

Not much firepower at the end.

Thinking about the frequent flatness on O, here's my preposterous suggestion: Given the lack of options, I'd like to find out if Dre and Boban could co-exist on the floor at times. I'd see that leading to bigger offensive dynamism. On D, it'd be pretty simple: Dre would need to be the guy venturing farther from the basket; on O, I think Boban has a good enough shot to play a bit farther from the basket (8-10 ft) with Dre in close for put backs and offensive rebounds. I'd give it a whirl given how flat the O can be, but I doubt we'll get to watch that experiment. Twin towers have done some good things in the past though.

I was happy to hear Kelser praise Boban for helping in defending the 3. He pointed out that with Boban anchoring the inside, posing an enormous blockade, the exterior D stabilized. Bad as he is at covering on the outside, he's got real strengths on D. Maybe SVG can bring those out?

Ta
Oracle wrote:What was missing? A healthy Reggie Jackson or just a good closeout player... Drummond is not that guy!

But Dre did his part, I couldn't have realistically asked for any more! He converted a TON of Bradley misses into points, he just wouldn't be denied. One day he may be the guy you give it to, to bring it home, but that day isn't today. Ballin, that's one hairy Aquaman  lol

@Sparma - That quietly was one hell of a post, you touched on some seriously important topics.
Sparma wrote:I still have my doubts about Andre though. After playing exactly as needed for most of the time I watched, he tried doing too much, driving from too far out (Kelser commented on one) leading to empty possessions. He showed me he can play winning basketball; not sure how many complete games playing as needed I've seen though. He's played hard this year though, much to his credit. Just usually wants to do more than I think would benefit the team most.
I have doubts as well, but not about Dre, but the talent around him. He's doing too much because he's missing the piece that we all know magnifies the beast in him and makes him unstoppable... a PG! From Bynum, Jennings, to Reggie, when you pair Drummond with a dynamic PG, this team is unstoppable.

Two years ago when we had Harris, KCP, Morris, Reggie & Drummond, if that team had Boban, Ish, Tolliver, Galloway and crew coming off the bench, we'd be talking ECF at the least.

No, Dre has done his part, he's got the bases covered, he just needs the help of a closer.
Sparma wrote:Good game by Bradley. I'm going back to our earlier discussion of the eye test vs the stats. The good from the eye test: he seems to be in super shape, plays hard the whole time, scrappy on D, doesn't give up. But the eye test also reveals some weaknesses (setting his shot aside). It's not so surprising that he turns the ball over so much: his handle's mediocre, and he gets knocked around a lot, contributing to TOs. He seems to have more bad TOs than anyone one else, throwing into traffic with no chance of success. Part of that comes from what I described, maybe part of it from him getting the ball late in the clock so often with limited options, maybe because guys don't trust his shot much, regarding him as an emergency out.
Bradley really does pass the eye test very well, it's only after you finish watching do you see how truly bad he was. But Bradley is only bad because we're asking him to do so much beyond what he had to do on the more talented Boston team that we're on the hairy edge of his competence.

Bradley needs a dynamic PG just as bad as Dre does, we get that guy and all of a sudden Bradley is going to pass both the eye test and the stat test much better. I seriously don't know if Reggie can be that guy anymore, I really wish we had pulled the trigger on that Rubio trade, just to see what would have happened.

The Raptors, IMO, are fooling themselves again, they look surprisingly average to me.

Stan's mission has to be to find that closer, or close the books on his Piston career.
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Cripples don't generally give up their crutches...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:41 pm

While Bradley is a better player overall than KCP, for SVG, Bradley=KCP.

He's doing the same things he did with KCP, over playing Bradley to the point of diminishing returns.

Bradley can help a contender, and the probability of him returning to SVG's freak show is fast approaching ZERO.

SVG faces tough choices, the only way to get the PG we need may be for him to give up Bradley and change for that PG today, or a high enough pick possibility to get a good player.

Note: Bradley is seeing a specialist about his groin. It would be a huge mistake to fail to move him before he goes down again, and lose that window of opportunity.
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Slow start was difference in this game. You have to be committed to bringing strong defensive effort at the start of the game

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:53 pm

That didn't happen. The Piston starters were sleep walking again in the first quarter on defense. Also, this team takes too many contested shots in the first quarter that signifies lack of effort in running the half court offense. Maybe some of the fault lies with SVG's toleration of the point guard going off course and trying to be the creator of the offense instead of the team creating open shots by running the motion offense. There is no doubt that Ish Smith plays hard. I appreciate his effort and improved defense this season. He also gets into the paint easily and does set up his teammates for open shots. The problem with that type of offense where the point guard dribbles into and out of the paint is that his teammates have nothing to do and are forced to stand instead of running the plays that the team practices. You get rhythm when scorers run around screens and get to spots that they are comfortable with when they shoot the ball. When the point guard dictates things it seems that the other Pistons are surprised much of the time or are forced to put up contested shots at the end of the shot clock. It is the same old story that I have seen for several years with the Pistons. The team is not well organized or disciplined in running a half court offense and that all stems from the unpredictability of what the point guard is doing when they dominate the basketball for too much of the shot clock. It creates stagnation. The Pistons offense was horrible for most of the first quarter and instead of picking up the energy on defense, the opposite happened and Toronto got every shot they wanted. AD looked much like he did in the previous game for the first half of the first quarter.

Then something happened that was beautiful. Piston guards started helping each other on defense. Smith came over and doubled Bradley's man forcing turnovers. AD then came alive and played the way he was capable of dominating the game. For the rest of the game until the closing minutes, the Pistons looked like they were playing harder than Toronto. But this was another game where the shots were just not falling and the officials were not helping the Pistons either. It seemed that a Piston player made a 3 point shot about 4 times and that shot was waived off because some off the ball insignificiant foul was called as the shot was in the air. Bull crap! But Andre Drummond's work inside kept the Pistons in the game.

It seems that one of the big keys when Detroit wins games is how Tobias Harris shoots the ball. He has had a rough stretch lately. The ball is not not going through the hoop from outside or close to the basket. He is missing layups. That is the way it goes in basketball and everyone of us who has played organized basketball has experienced it. What is important to me is how the team plays the game. I was not disappointed last night. If these players continue to play aggressive on defense and give supreme effort like they did last night, they can win a majority of the rest of the games. If they take a quarter off relating to effort, then it will be more of the same. They will lose. We have no superstars but we do have some players who give a great effort and do not give up. AD needs to be at his best for the rest of the season. He needs to get used to giving the same type of effort he gave last night and everything will be OK. For this team how they play defense will determine how well they finish the season.

It is time to trade Reggie Jackson if that is possible if anything is to be done. Then the Pistons need to obtain a high IQ winning type two way point guard who can get the best out of his teammates. That hasn't happened in my opinion in many years. It seems that the point guards get what they want within the offense instead of thinking about the strengths and weaknesses of the players they are playing with at any given moment. You just cannot go off on your own and dribble around for most of the shot clock trying to create something that isn't there. Players need a point guard who is more predictable and a point guard they can count on to get them the ball if they expend great energy moving around screens or setting screens and releasing. There is no purpose in practicing a half court offense if you don't run it in the games. The point guard runs around dribbling like mad and then throws it to a teammate and seems to say good luck. We need a Zeke type point guard. It has been long over due Mr. Van Gundy. Get a real point guard and bring Smith off the bench for a change of pace for not more than 12 minutes a game. Every fan has their wish list and mine happens to be hoping that one day we will actually get a really smart offensive and defensive minded point guard to lead the Pistons. That point guard will have to come through the draft. No superstar point guard will ever come to Detroit though free agency or a trade.

Meanwhile, I am still enjoying this current team and appreciate how hard they are playing basketball. It was good to see so many fans turn out for the Toronto team. I have been noticing the empty seats a lot this season both at home and away games for the Pistons. As I watch a lot of college games too, it seems that there are a lot of empty seats in many of Arizona's away games. Last night they played California and their arena was less than half full. Are people growing tired of both college and the NBA? Fans know the really good college players will only be in uniform for one season so it is hard for fans to bond. The NBA has too many teams that play too many games that last too long. There are too many players who should have stayed in college for 3 or 4 years. Many young players never develop good basketball habits that they would have been forced to develop by college coaches if they had stayed in college longer. Stanley Johnson is one of those players who left too soon before he became the number one option on his college team on offense. Notice the number one pick in the draft this season who played one year at Washington. There is no way he should have been the number one pick in the draft. Will people who live in Detroit support this Piston team? It doesn't look they they will. So was it a mistake to ever move the team there in the first place? Who is paying for this new arena that cannot support itself through fan participation? How will management convince free agents to play in Detroit knowing playing in Detroit is not like playing in Oklahoma of all places? Great fan base there. Too many other options for Detroit citizens maybe.

cool breeze

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