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Players Piston management cannot remove from the team because of bad contracts

Post  cool breeze on Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:06 pm

Stan Van Gundy got real lucky when Boston agreed to make the trade with the Pistons for Avery Bradley. If that hadn't happened it could have been a real possibility that SVG and his entire crew would have been fired before the trade deadline. As wise posters have pointed out especially the recent post involving SVG's bungling of the possible trade involving Jackson and Rubio both the front office decision making skills and the coaching skill level would get flunking grades. Why didn't SVG make that trade where we get a pass first play making guard who can defend much better than Reggie Jackson? The answer is at the time SVG was still sold on his lame offense based on the pick and roll play between Jackson and Drummond. Is that all you got coach? How stupid could this man be at the time he turned down that trade offer? The Piston coaching staff never could get the team past first level play which means the game was designed for idiots. No other team I watched played as dumb as the Pistons with this theme that success could be had by allowing a ball dominate selfish point guard to make only one play that didn't involve him and that was the pass to Drummond for the dunk as Reggie wildly drove into the lane out of control. Then when Reggie got hurt Stan must have had a panic attack and went with the same game play only this time with Ish Smith. Every team member that didn't include Reggie Jackson, Ish Smith or Andre Drummond were confused and dejected with the entire operation. But the owner didn't even notice so that tells me a lot about the owner. Who wants to watch basketball for idiots? Nobody moving without the basketball. Nobody setting screens unless you call Drummond's lazy weak screen attempts actual screens. I am only talking about the starters here. Baynes tried to set good screens but the players in the 2nd unit didn't know how to use the screens. It didn't matter anyway because Ish Smith played the same ball dominate point guard creates everything in the offense style.

REGGIE JACKSON cannot be trade most likely unless Detroit includes one of our players on rookie contracts or future first round picks. Nobody has said that regarding the Pelicans or Knicks rumors but I bet that is the real situation. It is just too much of a gamble to make a trade for Reggie because of his situation last season and his contract. The time has passed and opportunities missed regarding trade opportunities involving Reggie Jackson. We have to hope he changes his attitude about selfishness but that is the way he has always played the game. He is also selfish on the defensive end because he just doesn't give a crap about playing defense so he doesn't give an honest effort. He is protected by the head coach in this area too. Has anyone ever heard SVG ever complain about Reggie's defense? The two buds Jackson and Drummond have this in common. They don't give a crap about playing great defense. How will that affect the team chemistry this coming season? Avery Bradley must take control of this team with the help of Tobias Harris. If asses need to be kicked in the locker room as others have suggested, then so be it that is once the head coach is busy giving his post game press conference. He protects his babies. He is tough on the rest of the players and protective of his pets. Everyone knows it because SVG established this special set of rules for his highest paid athletes. That is what killed the team chemistry more than anything else last season. As a coach you need to say more than soft criticisms such as "you need to be more engaged". Maybe at one time SVG was a hard driving task master when he felt with lazy weak minded self absorbed players, but if so this man has changed to become one of the softest coaches in the NBA. Is this what happens when you are handed too much power to run the team?

LEUER is simply of no interest at all to any other NBA team at this time. SVG and his buddy in the front office had a brain fat last summer when they decided to bid against themselves to sign Leuer. By the way who else wanted this player who sat the bench for Phoenix? He has a weak upper body and cannot defend any power forward or center in the league. SVG was dreaming of a miracle again based on his obsession with 3 point shooting.

BOBAN is another example of SVG and his hand picked GM deciding to bid against themselves which is unlike any NBA front office I follow. Again this happened last summer when SVG and Brower were giddying about the Pistons making that 8th spot in the playoffs. They sign Smith who had no other offers. Philly liked TJ McC. the undrafted point guard over Smith at the time. Smith was the only player of the three over priced athletes (Boban, Leuer, Smith) that actually did a good job. All three were huge gambles and hurt Detroit's overall financial position especially when SVG made a big deal about his victory involving signing our lazy ass big man Andre Drummond to the max deal. Four huge blunders from a GM perspective got the Pistons to the point when all the talk involved the potential signing of Pope to another massive contract where the Pistons would once again bit against themselves. You can bet SVG would have done it too if he didn't get the life saver when Boston signed Hayward and released Bradley. That had to be a tough pill to swallow on Bradley's part.

Does Avery know about the dysfunction SVG has created with this team with Reggie and Andre? Has SVG's alleged self analysis made him realize the part he played in the dysfunction and the bad team chemistry issues? Does he really like having all of his assistant coaches being YES men and not calling SVG out for what he did last season? Did he address this with Avery Bradley and promise that he is done playing Mother with Andre and Reggie? I wanted both of these players out of the Piston organization several weeks before last season ended. After Andre made the comments about the only thing his team needs is rest, that should have been it for Drummond. Both of these players have been identified as problem players by the ignored Piston fan base. The coach has been identified as a big problem as well. It is all out in the open in a big way. There is nowhere to hide. All three must produce this season as everyone will be watching how SVG handles the game time coaching decisions and we all will be watching Jackson and Drummond to identify if they are faking it or are attempting to finally become real basketball players giving what the team needs rather than what they want to provide. We will need to watch because we can't count on the coach not having his blinders on next season. Avery Bradley needs to transform the Pistons into a real NBA team. He will have a lot of returning players on his side to. SVG has shown his inability to be the boss. This year the players need to lead the team in the right direction with the head coach keeping his nose out of any future players only team meetings. That is where the ass kicking can take place or at least could have in the old days. But what do you think Labron does in the locker room at Cleveland? He is old school.

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Well, I errr, well it was like this....Oh sh!t, I'm ashame!

Post  deusXango on Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:19 am

BallinD wrote:Post  Oracle Today at 9:01 am

DX, you should be cautiously excited, but Don makes an excellent point.

Reggie has real issues, and they're not because he doesn't play hard and give his all, but...


With all due respect guys, is it just me, or doesn't anybody else remember the Dec. 19 2016 game vs the Bulls when Weggie refused to shoot the ball and came down the court made one pass and went and stood in the corner with his hands on his knees as the Bulls ran out to a 16-6 lead.  This was the first game after the players only meeting and he was literally dogging it with his body language and his refusal to engage as our starting point guard.  He was saying with his actions, "Ok, y'all want me to pass, you think I shoot to much and dribble too much, well watch this.  I won't do any of that!" mad

I remember watching this game, screaming at the TV and wondering how SVG let him get away with that and how the He11 anybody could trust this egoistic buffoon again.  

Well I still don't trust this me-first player and have to remind everybody...he does not play hard.  He refuses to push the pace, even when SVG implores him to do so, and he dogged it on the big stage, right after he got his feelings hurt."  A big baby er..biotch!

Or am I being unreasonable and should just let it go.  Like letting a cheating girlfriend back in your bed.. Nope.
BallinD, I thank you for reminding the public at large what an asshole Reggie has shown to be right here in the "D." I remember and also remember how much rope SVG gave this jackass; I'm speaking from the vantage point of "guarded optimism." Perhaps with a running mate, the quality of Avery Bradley, he'll change from the nonsense to playing real basketball, or get his ass kicked in the locker room. How's that for a players only meeting?

I know there's no excuse for poor taste, but when the Jackson for Rubio trade was turned down, I lost hope of Reggie being traded by SVG, especially when Van Gundy apologized to Reggie for that "ugly" rumor getting out and giving him assurances that it wasn't true. When rumors fly about Drummond getting traded, but all is quiet or ridiculous about Reggie leaving, I'm guardedly optimistic about our PG situation.

"Like letting a cheating girlfriend back in your bed.. Nope." tb
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Drummonds and Jackson on the block

Post  Phil1980boy on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:20 pm

If Stan can dump Reggie Jackson without giving up any young players or draft picks, I would give him executive of the year.

I don't look for the Pistons to have A really good season. BUT!! BUT! BUT! If Stanley Johnson breakout!!?? LOOK OUT! If Stanley looks bad this year, he will be in some kind of trade package with Reggie Jackson.. I can almost GUARANTEE IT!!!

Look out or Ellenson. He should make Stan think about moving on from John Leuer.

For now we just watching the trade wire to see if the Pistons can pull of A miracle and dump Reggie Jackson. Or if Boston will come off some of those Draft Picks and take Drummonds off our hands.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:09 pm

BallinD wrote:Post  Oracle Today at 9:01 am

DX, you should be cautiously excited, but Don makes an excellent point.

Reggie has real issues, and they're not because he doesn't play hard and give his all, but...


With all due respect guys, is it just me, or doesn't anybody else remember the Dec. 19 2016 game vs the Bulls when Weggie refused to shoot the ball and came down the court made one pass and went and stood in the corner with his hands on his knees as the Bulls ran out to a 16-6 lead.  This was the first game after the players only meeting and he was literally dogging it with his body language and his refusal to engage as our starting point guard.  He was saying with his actions, "Ok, y'all want me to pass, you think I shoot to much and dribble too much, well watch this.  I won't do any of that!" mad

I remember watching this game, screaming at the TV and wondering how SVG let him get away with that and how the He11 anybody could trust this egoistic buffoon again.  

Well I still don't trust this me-first player and have to remind everybody...he does not play hard.  He refuses to push the pace, even when SVG implores him to do so, and he dogged it on the big stage, right after he got his feelings hurt."  A big baby er..biotch!

Or am I being unreasonable and should just let it go.  Like letting a cheating girlfriend back in your bed.. Nope.

BallinD I loved the part about the cheating girlfriend being allowed in the bed. What a great comparison. You get an A+ for that one. You brought me back to that game too. I felt the same way. Reggie was screwing with the entire team except for his Co-Captain Andre the Giant. And of course Stan Van Gundy had his blinders on all through that game. First Stan interferes with the players only meeting because of his special relationship with his captains and then he allows Reggie's childish actions in that game. I think he did it for several games didn't he? But SVG sure did clamp down on Stanley Johnson around the same time period. I bet that SVG hates it when we bring up stuff that happened last season. He gets the award as the worst coach I have ever witnessed in dealing with problem players. He just ignores those who create the problems and picks on the fringe guys. That is a clear example of being a coward relating to failure to do the right thing as a coach. And he still ponders about the bad team chemistry last season. Reggie should be gone and Andre right behind him.

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Oracle and Forum

Post  BallinD on Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:47 pm

Post  Oracle Today at 9:01 am

DX, you should be cautiously excited, but Don makes an excellent point.

Reggie has real issues, and they're not because he doesn't play hard and give his all, but...


With all due respect guys, is it just me, or doesn't anybody else remember the Dec. 19 2016 game vs the Bulls when Weggie refused to shoot the ball and came down the court made one pass and went and stood in the corner with his hands on his knees as the Bulls ran out to a 16-6 lead.  This was the first game after the players only meeting and he was literally dogging it with his body language and his refusal to engage as our starting point guard.  He was saying with his actions, "Ok, y'all want me to pass, you think I shoot to much and dribble too much, well watch this.  I won't do any of that!" mad

I remember watching this game, screaming at the TV and wondering how SVG let him get away with that and how the He11 anybody could trust this egoistic buffoon again.  

Well I still don't trust this me-first player and have to remind everybody...he does not play hard.  He refuses to push the pace, even when SVG implores him to do so, and he dogged it on the big stage, right after he got his feelings hurt."  A big baby er..biotch!

Or am I being unreasonable and should just let it go. Like letting a cheating girlfriend back in your bed.. Nope.


Last edited by BallinD on Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : color)
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:13 pm

Oracle wrote:DX, you should be cautiously excited, but Don makes an excellent point.

Reggie has real issues, and they're not because he doesn't play hard and give his all, but Drummond has no such excuse. Drummond fails his team from both a physical and mental standpoint and both issues are well within his control. All I can say in his defense is that for big men it does take more time to reach physical peak which sometimes makes the mental aspect hard for them, but it's amazing how he has energy for as many dunks as you can throw his way, but none on the defensive end.

But on to my post, just how good can this team be. Well, here's what I see, but first the assumptions.

1. If Reggie is 80% of the good Reggie
2. Drummond is 80% of the all star guy

We need those two things to happen because we once had three guys who could electrify and dominate a game, now we're down to two. Do we need a third?

IMO, we need our two remaining peak players to be who they are but what they need most is steady producers around them. On paper and in fact, we have two steady, though not flash producers now.

1. Avery Bradley - Replaces the defense that KCP brought with slightly better defense, but also brings steady consistent offense, the key ingredient the two stars need.
2. Tobias Harris - Is the definition of steady

So far, what I've described is the basis of a starting unit that is, on paper, more mature and potent than anything we've had under SVG. It's at least 15-20% better, and while that's not a huge number, over the course of a season 20% better can make a big difference in seeding.

So what else do we have: A much better bench! We now have what I think is much better shooting and IMO, a much better backup center in Boban, even if that statement has to be proved, I think in the long run, he will be better for us than Baynes, and when he isn't, Moreland will kick some ass out there.

Coaching: This is the biggest wild card, but if SVG can get his arse out of the way of this teams success, it won't be a problem.

So what should we expect? I could see this team finishing anywhere from 3-5th seed. Looking at this lineup, I even think we finally overcome our annual losing to the Wizards, I think we match up better now.

So what could go wrong? outside of the usual suspects, Reggie & Drummond, we would still face a few issues.

1. Chemistry: Nobody knows for sure how well the many new pieces will integrate together.
2. Bradley: Can he stay injury free
3. Shooting: Will it hold up over the course of a season, heaven knows we're due for a breakout

Heads we lose , tails we lose: This could be the situation with Bradley. We come up big, 3rd seed, he gets major attention, and because of the CAP situation, we simply can't match his offers. The flip side of that is that he sucks or gets hurt, we still can't sign anybody better, so we roll the dice again. This is a tricky one.

Should we optimistic? Hell yeah, we look pretty good on paper, and that's all you can ask going into the season. We can't control all of the things that can go wrong, but that doesn't mean that we should ignore them either.

Finally: I'd regularly bash the hell out of Dumars after the season when he regularly threw the players under the bus for his incompetence, and I'll do the same to SVG. I didn't like what Jow did, and I also don't like how SVG behaves either... as a coach or a GM.

However, he holds all of the keys to the franchise and while I'll vent, I always come home when the shooting starts  lol

Oracle SVG is promising he will be different. He keeps saying that he wants to use the entire roster. I agree with you that a lot will depend on Jackson and Drummond if they are both on the team at the start of the regular season. If SVG is going to be different then we can hope that the offense will be different and we will see more ball and player movement earlier in the half court offense. A lot depends on how Stanley Johnson plays the small forward position. He can be a catalyst setting hard screens, banging to get his share of the boards and going all out on defense forming a strong bond with Avery Bradley to bring back the old look of the Bad Boys. Johnson talked about wanting to be on a team like the Bad Boys when he was drafted. Now Bradley is talking about it. I expect our defense to be greatly improved this season and believe that if Drummond is not one his game he will be moved. We need a good athletic center to go with two outstanding defenders in Bradley and Johnson. I see Moreland beating out Boban for the back up center spot and Ellenson also playing center at times. I don't count out Boban but he is a real slow mover from end to end after about three times down and back. That is what I worried about last season when I watched him towards the end. But maybe he has an ace up his sleeve defensively. He is sure a threat on offense if the point guards will actually play a half court offense with ball sharing and movement.

I even like the Tolliver pick up. He is a great older guy who will help Henry Ellenson this year. And anything goes with Luke Kennard. He is a savvy basketball player who is way ahead of the norm mentally from any of our first round picks in a long time. He can shoot it, drive it, pass it and he rebounds. We now have some basketball players instead of specialists to watch an pull for. If the team chemistry is right then I expect Bradley to sign with Detroit next summer. He is not a flashy type guy who might really feel at home playing for the Pistons as their leader. For me now everything is better since the draft and the Bradley trade. This is a new era. The unknowns are like you said Jackson and Drummond. If they don't fit in then I expect SVG to do his job as the leader of the front office. Go Pistons!

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How good is this team?

Post  Oracle on Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:01 pm

DX, you should be cautiously excited, but Don makes an excellent point.

Reggie has real issues, and they're not because he doesn't play hard and give his all, but Drummond has no such excuse. Drummond fails his team from both a physical and mental standpoint and both issues are well within his control. All I can say in his defense is that for big men it does take more time to reach physical peak which sometimes makes the mental aspect hard for them, but it's amazing how he has energy for as many dunks as you can throw his way, but none on the defensive end.

But on to my post, just how good can this team be. Well, here's what I see, but first the assumptions.

1. If Reggie is 80% of the good Reggie
2. Drummond is 80% of the all star guy

We need those two things to happen because we once had three guys who could electrify and dominate a game, now we're down to two. Do we need a third?

IMO, we need our two remaining peak players to be who they are but what they need most is steady producers around them. On paper and in fact, we have two steady, though not flash producers now.

1. Avery Bradley - Replaces the defense that KCP brought with slightly better defense, but also brings steady consistent offense, the key ingredient the two stars need.
2. Tobias Harris - Is the definition of steady

So far, what I've described is the basis of a starting unit that is, on paper, more mature and potent than anything we've had under SVG. It's at least 15-20% better, and while that's not a huge number, over the course of a season 20% better can make a big difference in seeding.

So what else do we have: A much better bench! We now have what I think is much better shooting and IMO, a much better backup center in Boban, even if that statement has to be proved, I think in the long run, he will be better for us than Baynes, and when he isn't, Moreland will kick some ass out there.

Coaching: This is the biggest wild card, but if SVG can get his arse out of the way of this teams success, it won't be a problem.

So what should we expect? I could see this team finishing anywhere from 3-5th seed. Looking at this lineup, I even think we finally overcome our annual losing to the Wizards, I think we match up better now.

So what could go wrong? outside of the usual suspects, Reggie & Drummond, we would still face a few issues.

1. Chemistry: Nobody knows for sure how well the many new pieces will integrate together.
2. Bradley: Can he stay injury free
3. Shooting: Will it hold up over the course of a season, heaven knows we're due for a breakout

Heads we lose , tails we lose: This could be the situation with Bradley. We come up big, 3rd seed, he gets major attention, and because of the CAP situation, we simply can't match his offers. The flip side of that is that he sucks or gets hurt, we still can't sign anybody better, so we roll the dice again. This is a tricky one.

Should we optimistic? Hell yeah, we look pretty good on paper, and that's all you can ask going into the season. We can't control all of the things that can go wrong, but that doesn't mean that we should ignore them either.

Finally: I'd regularly bash the hell out of Dumars after the season when he regularly threw the players under the bus for his incompetence, and I'll do the same to SVG. I didn't like what Jow did, and I also don't like how SVG behaves either... as a coach or a GM.

However, he holds all of the keys to the franchise and while I'll vent, I always come home when the shooting starts  lol
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Perhaps I'm delusional, but I don't think so

Post  deusXango on Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:08 pm

I've had my foot in Reggie Jackson's ass for the longest, for what I feel was selfish play, in slow motion, but with the addition of Avery Bradley in the starting backcourt and his assurances that he's returned to physical form, I'd love to place my foot in my mouth. I want so much to get excited about this team again. A lot has been said about the declining east, but there's some great guard combos in the east and I hope we have one, if not the best.

The 2nd unit is better than it's been since our last glory days and if what SVG said is true about playing everybody in his rotation it's more than encouraging...I'm eager to see Kennard, Ellenson, and Johnson get some real, consistent, playing time; playing veterans like Bullock, Tolliver, Smith, and Galloway is the closest thing to a guarantee we'll be able to come out of a hole (if we should find ourselves in one), hold a lead or increase one. I see our Pistons as being a middle of the road western team or one of the top 3-4 teams in the east and that's starting  this year. When an elite rebounding, max player is the weakest link on the team, we're well on our way. Now's the time to earn your coaching accolades SVG.
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"I want them to know I am going to play hard and bring it every game" -- Avery Bradley

Post  cool breeze on Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:12 am

Tell me who has had the Pistons number for a long time? Opponent NBA players of the Detroit Pistons and opposing coaches that's who. On PASS you get the perspective of opposing teams when they would play against the Pistons. There were so many nights when I heard statements about catching Detroit on one of their off nights where the starters would lay down in the first and third quarters of games. At no time did the Detroit coaching staff set any standards of play. They just watched the starters lag back on defense or point guards go one on two out of control because the coaching staff wanted them to push tempo. You can't push tempo on made shots so if you don't bother to play defense you have to slow it down and try to get a good shot in the half court offense. As Oracle has said about the front office many times, where was the plan? Not only was there no real plan with building a superior team but the coaching staff never adjusted the style of play to fit the players management had signed. Both are areas where SVG made all the decisions.

It is amazing that Stan Van Gundy has not been fired. But two of the players he banked everything on played an egg betraying him big time with simple lack of effort. Reggie Jackson looked really unhealthy not with the knee issue but with his stamina. Does he have a cardio issue? Or was it that he just didn't bother to get himself in proper physical condition before making a comeback from the knee injury. I think there is something more going on with Reggie than lack of conditioning. He knows what it takes. He did play really hard and was responsible for getting Detroit in the playoffs so in his case, I do not believe he betrayed the coaching staff. It was beyond his control. On the other hand, Andre Drummond cannot use the excuse he has made up relating to his breathing issues with the nose. I am a marathon runner and know you can breath from your mouth well enough to turn on the jets when you need to perform. Andre looked like a goof off and never did seem to be engaged during the last half of the season. He was not mentally or physically into helping his team win. He was showing up. That is why some of my friends stopped watching the Pistons. They couldn't stand watching Andre Drummond fake it on defense. When you are not mentally into a fast paced game where opponents are going all out you are going to look like a fool. And Andre sure looked like a fool against Anthony Davis who could score 100 points a game against Andre if he wanted to. All the charts and graphs that have been created remind me of Lee and his analysis of bench players who might be super stars if only they got the minutes. Those stats didn't take into account simple lack of interest in providing the team with what the team needed most. Andre Drummond betrayed the coach and all of his teammates and the Piston fans last season. A lot of people have his number now. Will the addition of Avery Bradley force a big change in Andre Drummond? He has been exposed. Maybe now he will grow up and be a man and give the team what they need most which is a strong defensive presence in the paint, control the defensive boards and block shots. Talk on pick and roll plays and stop switching off your man when he rolls to the basket. Box out your man in key moments so active players like Whiteside cannot tip the ball in to win big games because of failure to get a body on him or jump. Everyone will be watching Andre Drummond at the start of games and the start of the 3rd quarter now. We need to keep talking about it to force the coaching staff to be more aware. Maybe the head coach doesn't made enough money to may attention and make adjustments if someone is not playing with max effort.

This coming season there will be more emphasis on the team playing with maximum effort. I guarantee it.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:30 pm

Oracle wrote:Good response Don, and yes it's hard to trade for top talent these days, but it's a LOT easier if we had stock piled a bunch of picks like Ainge did.

That's the damage of not moving Monroe, KCP and possibly Smith for picks, IMO.

Ainge is an exceptional GM who works harder than any person that I have seen before. If you see Danny Ainge in person as I have over the years you always come away feeling that this guy is one of those former players who still must sneak into the gym and work his butt off trying to stay in shape. He knows a lot of details regarding so many college players and even high school players too. And he travels the country during the basketball season to watch a ton of college games and talk with the college coaches himself. How many GMs ever do that? How many college games did Joe Dumars ever attend? Joe had some of the worst scouts of any team in the league when he drafted Rodney White.

Ainge got something really big from his travels and the countless interviews and relationship building he did with the college coaches. From that he got to know Brad Stevens. What a find? All the draft picks he has lined up might come in second to the Brad Stevens hire.

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Don...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:05 pm

Good response Don, and yes it's hard to trade for top talent these days, but it's a LOT easier if we had stock piled a bunch of picks like Ainge did.

That's the damage of not moving Monroe, KCP and possibly Smith for picks, IMO.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:43 pm

Oracle wrote:Of course there are, but we're in the running because we're one of the worst. Let me elaborate.

We make trades and the trades sound good, but what happens over time... they fail. They fail because SVG & Team have absolutely no plan, it's all done on the fly, doing whatever feels right at the moment. He will correct mistakes quickly, but the speed of making those corrections again display how he has no plan, just reacting to events, never controlling them.

There was an article about SVG as the GM, and it gave him very good marks as they went through every signing, trade and draft. But fans are a LOT smarter, and the comments after the article showed that we have fans that see a much bigger picture than SVG ever does. Take a look at the responses below.


Man, I wish we could get some of these guys on this board!

But they didn't cover it all, I have one much more devastating failure that SVG has, one that destroys our ability to get better and makes it damn near impossible to get a star.

SVG has mismanaged the assets of this franchise, here's what he's done.

1. Josh Smith is still on the books
2. Greg Monroe was lost with no return
3. KCP was lost with no return.

Only an idiot lets these things happen, over 50M/yr dollars with either no return, or we're paying someone to not play.

What would Danny Ainge have done?

He would have gotten either,

1. Picks for each and every one of these guys 
2. A trade or a S&T, or he would have gotten assets for each one. 
3. Hell, giving Josh away for a 2nd rounder and a pound of butter beats paying him. He did what he did because he didn't have the balls to sit him or the brains to figure out how to use him.

In the cases of Monroe & KCP, he had years to figure this out, but he blew it BOTH times!!!

How freaking dumb do you have to be to let the same thing happen to you two times in a row?

So instead of stockpiling picks like Ainge did, we sit here, unable to get a top pick because we won't tank, and without the assets to trade for a star because he's mismanaged the club.

It takes planning, and I still don't see one except hoping to get excited about starting over... yet again!

I was against signing Josh Smith from the beginning. That one is one Joe Dumars but Joe did think that somehow Monroe, Smith and Drummond could be effective playing together. Smith ignored the offense that the team practiced and shot the long ball whenever he felt the urge. But Smith could defend when he wanted to defend. But he took a look at Monroe who was teaching Drummond bad habits on how to fake it on defense or being caught out at the 3 point line when the opponent's play was designed to go into the painted area. Monroe was one of the worst defenders I had seen until Drummond took over after Monroe left. Did SVG wait too long to see how things developed? YES he did. I remember one of those tributes being made for the Bad Boys where the Palace was full for the first time in many months. Everyone was really hyped up at half time excited about the old times and Isiah Thomas spoke with passion maybe trying to motivate the current players who included Smith, Drummond and Monroe at the big ticket items. Boy did Cleveland make those guys look bad in the 2nd half. People started filing out in the 3rd quarter. All three of the players mentioned were lagging down the court behind almost everyone from the opposing team in transition from offense to defense. Layup after layup after layup without any expression on the faces of the Piston players. I think at that moment SVG had had enough. But I think that Smith knew there was no chance of the Pistons competing for anything. He had been playing with Horeford at Atlanta and everyone played defense. SVG must have thought differently and removed Smith. We don't know what went on with SVG and Monroe's agent during Monroe's last season. In hind sight SVG should have moved Monroe for something instead of nothing but I sure would like to hear SVG's side of the story. Now we have Drummond with all those bad habits Monroe had as a defender plus the bad free throw shooting and the bad attitude. Maybe the bad attitude will disappear if he is not traded when Reggie Jackson is traded. Could it be that SVG will pull the trigger and remove the two man click that killed the team chemistry last season? That would be a good move.

Reggie Jackson did play with heart at the end of games two years ago. Teams might remember that and block out last season. If SVG waits and tries to get more before the deadline then maybe that is a smart thing. I won't second guess when I know nothing of what really goes on with these trade talks. What SVG is doing now is trying to fix some of the problems with the roster mix. We did get Kennard in the draft but should have tanked and perhaps drafted in the 5th or 6th spot which was possible. But everyone was thinking that the team might still pull things together and get into the playoffs. Back seat driving is an easy thing to do. I agree with you that a lot of decisions made especially last summer never made good sense. And Andre Drummond betrayed SVG after signing that contract. Andre was supposed to be a better defender, rim protector and shot blocker along with improving at the foul line. Instead when Reggie came back and played so badly Andre mailed it in and gave minimum effort even tweeting with Thomas in Boston acting like he wanted to be traded.

With all that said, it is really hard to sign a top tier NBA player these days unless you are one of the top teams with all the star players. You get the scraps. So I am really happy that SVG made the trade for Bradley who will be the best Piston player we have seen in many years. Just wait Oracle. You will get really excited about the Pistons real soon.

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Is there a worse organization than the Pistons?

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:58 pm

Of course there are, but we're in the running because we're one of the worst. Let me elaborate.

We make trades and the trades sound good, but what happens over time... they fail. They fail because SVG & Team have absolutely no plan, it's all done on the fly, doing whatever feels right at the moment. He will correct mistakes quickly, but the speed of making those corrections again display how he has no plan, just reacting to events, never controlling them.

There was an article about SVG as the GM, and it gave him very good marks as they went through every signing, trade and draft. But fans are a LOT smarter, and the comments after the article showed that we have fans that see a much bigger picture than SVG ever does. Take a look at the responses below.


Man, I wish we could get some of these guys on this board!

But they didn't cover it all, I have one much more devastating failure that SVG has, one that destroys our ability to get better and makes it damn near impossible to get a star.

SVG has mismanaged the assets of this franchise, here's what he's done.

1. Josh Smith is still on the books
2. Greg Monroe was lost with no return
3. KCP was lost with no return.

Only an idiot lets these things happen, over 50M/yr dollars with either no return, or we're paying someone to not play.

What would Danny Ainge have done?

He would have gotten either,

1. Picks for each and every one of these guys 
2. A trade or a S&T, or he would have gotten assets for each one. 
3. Hell, giving Josh away for a 2nd rounder and a pound of butter beats paying him. He did what he did because he didn't have the balls to sit him or the brains to figure out how to use him.

In the cases of Monroe & KCP, he had years to figure this out, but he blew it BOTH times!!!

How freaking dumb do you have to be to let the same thing happen to you two times in a row?

So instead of stockpiling picks like Ainge did, we sit here, unable to get a top pick because we won't tank, and without the assets to trade for a star because he's mismanaged the club.

It takes planning, and I still don't see one except hoping to get excited about starting over... yet again!
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How about the interview with Avery Bradley. I still can't believe we got him - Trade rumors involving Pistons - Pelicans

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:18 pm

Avery Bradley is a serious basketball player who should create something crazy in piston land. He plays like the old Bad Boys. He is smart and unyielding and hates losing. If Detroit can sign him to a long term deal, other free agents will want to come to Detroit. I kept comparing Bradley to KCP on this forum depressed that the Pistons might sign Pope to a max contract while knowing Bradley is the real deal who was just sitting there waiting for a new home. Whatever I say about SVG and his coaching history last season, I will not forget what he did in securing Avery Bradley even if SVG is unable to sign him long term. And that might happen because Bradley is ready to be the MAN and Detroit might be the place where he reaches greatness.

I heard about the trade rumors involving the Pelicans who have had interest in Jackson for a long time. We get rid of Reggie's remaining $80 mil contract which was not enough for Pope and his agent. The proposed players we get are Alexis Ajinca who is a 7 foot 2 inch counter signed for 2 seasons at just over $5M. E'Twaun Moore is mentioned as the other player who is a combo guard who will make around $8.5M this season and is signed for 3 years. I can't recall ever watching either player. Any of you know anything about either player? Also wondering if the Pelicans trade would go down we might get their first round pick without giving up ours. Maybe this is old news and the Knicks-Pistons trade talk is the hot topic now. It is always good news to hear any type of trade talk involving Jackson.

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Not Feeling It

Post  BallinD on Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:48 pm

Oracle, I would be sorely pissed if SVG includes Ellensen or Johnson in as trade filler.  I wanna get rid of Weggie, but this is likely not happening, well maybe it is happening as the rumors continue to pile up.

Get rid of Leuer if anything. But I know the $$$ won't work, so we should be out or angle for picks, or this is where if we had not renounced KCP, could we have thrown him in at his cap-hold salary?  Can we extend Gbinije and then include his salary to make the trade?

Not feeling Ryan Andersen at all...but I'm feeling a youth movement and SVG is trying to save his job, so there is that!!

As is the Knicks clearly get better and we get older.  No more playing players out of position, like maybe we think we can move Bradley to point guard.  So much to despair about.


Last edited by BallinD on Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : oops)
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Looks like we are being tossed around to move Melo, and Reggie may be the bait.

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:34 pm

I like it, but include Leuer and take Ellenson out, we shouldn't trade Ellenson at all.
https://www.fanragsports.com/nba/knicks/knicks-likely-wont-get-significant-value-back-carmelo-anthony-trade/ wrote:With the Rockets seemingly hotter for Anthony than any team we’ve seen, now’s the time to punch in a trade.

So if Anderson is the big piece coming from Houston, what are some other possibilities in terms of additional trade partners? Knowing the Knicks still need a point guard, including the Detroit Pistons and reuniting Anderson with former coach Stan Van Gundy has potential.



The biggest problem here is the Rockets won’t want to part with Trevor Ariza. As a defensive standout, Ariza probably has more value to the Rockets than Anthony. Other than that, the Pistons would probably be thrilled to unload Reggie Jackson’s contract, which the Knicks can easily absorb.

It’s unfair to assume Detroit would trade second-year player Henry Ellenson, but Anderson is the perfect Van Gundy stretch 4. And after moving Marcus Morris for Avery Bradley, acquiring Anderson could help get the Pistons back to the playoffs.

For the Knicks, they get another young, stretch big in Ellenson, and Ariza, who comes off the books next offseason. Jackson isn’t exactly a player the Knicks should target, but he’s young and maybe a change of scenery would help.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:05 am

Sparma wrote:Rod Beard was the guy who talked about how much the Pistons' O missed Reggie while he was out.  I thought it was just a misstatement (maybe that they missed the Reggie of the previous season), but then he wrote something similar.

Now, commenting on the Bradley trade, he writes that before the trade: "More than likely, the Pistons weren’t going to be any better next season than they were last season at 37-45 if they kept the same roster together."  That seems really unlikely to me, due to what Bill James call the plexiglass principle (or maybe plain ol regression to the mean).  Given the high of the previous season and the low of the past season, my opening hunch while predicting would be something in between 44 and 37 given roster stability (complicating matters there already was some turnover between the two seasons).

It's an interesting comment though, going back to an earlier issue about how you could tell if the team was better post-trade and KCP.  As I passed along before, right after the Bradley trade (so before a couple of subsequent tweaks) Vegas predicted (roughly) a .500 finish for us.    

Beard's comment could possibly serve as a point of reference: at the end of the season, we'd [m]ore than likely not win more than 37.  The Vegas assessment could be seen as an early read of our movement post-season (working from the (questionable) premise that they would have been in agreement with Beard's prediction regarding no change.

Various problems though.  One is that we were going to be upgraded through the draft in any case, so that the 37 might not have been the marker anyway.

The second problem, from my point of view, is that the end of season prediction of 37 just doesn't sound accurate.  We'll never know for sure though.

It is difficult to argue with the assessment of the Vegas experts unless the two biggest problems that have not been addressed by Piston management come about before the trade deadline which is a bit earlier now. The big unknown for me is how and when the real power relating to leadership happens with the Piston players. Reggie and Andre believe they are the leaders. However, both were the biggest problem last season. They formed a click two for one and one for all. But neither could lead or play effectively. How could it be that SVG and Brower somehow cannot recall that Andre could not play a lot of the time in the 4th quarter because he made bone head decisions on defense and could not shoot free throws leading the the Hack a Drummond moments that ruined any type of offensive rhythm the team could possibly have given the coach allows a point guard dominating type of lame offensive system?

The experts saw it. Opponent coaches saw it but SVG and Brower ignore it this summer because perhaps they just cannot trade either Jackson or Drummond. So who will be the team leaders?? If Bradley and Harris step up and try to take charge how will that affect Drummond and Jackson? Drummond has already made his comments which make me believe he wants out of Detroit while still handling the role of team leader at least in his mind. "The team needs more rest over the summer". That should piss off any GM or head coach but there is only silence in the front office regarding the those comments and actions such as screw you coach I will not use your damn shooting coach. I ask any of you do you know any former teammate who would make such comments that you would ever want to play with on a team? What coach would tolerate that type of attitude?

As we look to the past every fan knew who was in charge of the teams that won the championships for the Pistons. Do we think of any of the coaches as being the leaders that brought us to glory? Zeke and Laimbeer formed a great leadership model. Billups was outstanding as the Piston team leader. Somehow SVG thought that Reggie and Andre should be the leaders and promoted that insane idea. Since when does a GM or head coach get involved in who the team leaders should be? What an ego Stan Van Gundy must have to promote his two pets like a PT Barnum circus act. It backfired big time though but the Vegas people must think Detroit has the dumbest management leadership in the NBA because Brower and SVG were afraid to confront the team's real issues which still are Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson. Players hated playing with those two highly paid dysfunctional professionals last season so what will training camp look like this time around? That is the mystery. It is probable that either player will change their character? The odds makers figured that out while our duo management team spins yarns. Will Andre laugh again at the head coach face to face again? Will SVG say Andre please will you provide an effort on defense especially rim protection and shot blocking? Screw you coach I will only concentrate on my baseline hook. Will SVG ask Reggie to stop being a ball hog? Sorry coach that is my game. Is this management team guilty of being cowards afraid to confront the real problems or did they try hard to move both players but just couldn't get it done? I think the latter is the correct answer. The experts just say the Pistons are a team with the same issues or problems. Management didn't address those issues and won't talk about it. Good luck if the other players don't form a revolt.

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Melo to Houston... Can we get some of this action?

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:08 am

This will involve a few teams, so I hope SVB has eyes on the situation.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nba/2017/07/13/wednesdays-nba-league-looks-speed-up-game/103655330/?src=rss wrote:Personnel dept.

Carmelo Anthony could soon be joining his good friend Chris Paul in Houston.

The Knicks and Rockets are working on Anthony trade scenarios, according to an ESPN report. Some of them involve three- and four-team deals. Since those trades are complex and difficult to complete, nothing appears to be imminent. But ESPN reported that both sides are confident they can reach a deal.

The Rockets reportedly are looking for a landing spot for forward Ryan Anderson, who has three years and $61 million remaining on his deal.
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Stuff...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:53 am

@Don - Thanks, that was a much better response than I expected, I loved the detail. BTW, I too believe that Kennard has the smarts to get some minutes at PG, and IMO, SVG appears to be making a LOT of plans for the PG position if Reggie fails to regain his form. His moves make me nervous, because if he has any doubt, I'd rather see Reggie moved before the season starts, after that, we could be stuck with him.

Kennard showed me things I never expected. His numbers were good, but nothing eye popping. However, he blew me away with his BBall IQ, ability to get his shot off, poise under pressure and finding ways to score when his 3 point shot wasn't falling. In short he displayed the full range of offensive skills that will make it hard for him to be a failure at the next level, quite impressive for a rookie. I still expect him to struggle a bit early on, but he also showed the ability to adjust, so he'll recover.

@Sparma & @Everyone else: I have some pondering of my own! We all know and seem to agree that SVG has been an average to poor coach for the Pistons. But he has gotten praise as a GM more than as a coach, which leads to my question.

Is SVG a good GM? My answer is that he's a worse GM than he is a coach.

We're going into his 4th year, and we're only marginally better than we were when he started, and worse, we have no plan to be a competitor, let alone a map to the finals.

I seriously would like to know what others think, as I see SVG as the polar opposite of Danny Ainge, a guy that I laughed at when he got the Boston job, who turned out to be one of the best GM's in the league. Ainge has a plan and SVG is spinning in circles.
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Pondering a dubious comment

Post  Sparma on Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:16 pm

Rod Beard was the guy who talked about how much the Pistons' O missed Reggie while he was out.  I thought it was just a misstatement (maybe that they missed the Reggie of the previous season), but then he wrote something similar.

Now, commenting on the Bradley trade, he writes that before the trade: "More than likely, the Pistons weren’t going to be any better next season than they were last season at 37-45 if they kept the same roster together."  That seems really unlikely to me, due to what Bill James call the plexiglass principle (or maybe plain ol regression to the mean).  Given the high of the previous season and the low of the past season, my opening hunch while predicting would be something in between 44 and 37 given roster stability (complicating matters there already was some turnover between the two seasons).

It's an interesting comment though, going back to an earlier issue about how you could tell if the team was better post-trade and KCP.  As I passed along before, right after the Bradley trade (so before a couple of subsequent tweaks) Vegas predicted (roughly) a .500 finish for us.    

Beard's comment could possibly serve as a point of reference: at the end of the season, we'd [m]ore than likely not win more than 37.  The Vegas assessment could be seen as an early read of our movement post-season (working from the (questionable) premise that they would have been in agreement with Beard's prediction regarding no change.

Various problems though.  One is that we were going to be upgraded through the draft in any case, so that the 37 might not have been the marker anyway.

The second problem, from my point of view, is that the end of season prediction of 37 just doesn't sound accurate.  We'll never know for sure though.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:28 pm

The conference is now called the PAC12 Oracle. Utah and Colorado were added several years ago. Ball started the season as a superstar based on college standards. He owned the hardwood on the offensive end directing UCLA as no other point guard had done in many years. His quickness is not anywhere close to that of the Kentucky or Washington point guards drafted this summer but he has an extremely high basketball IQ, great timing, court vision, exceptional passing ability, quickness off the dribble in the half court set, and Ball hits the 3 ball in big moments. His shooting technique might need changing as he slings the ball across his body and up before releasing, a unique style to say the least and the question will be if he can get that shot up quickly enough in the NBA. He is one player who took the time to learn opponent's offenses and anticipated really well which resulted in a lot of big steals. He is a big moment player but Arizona managed to contain him better than most teams until Kentucky matched up with UCLA in the tournament. Everyone thought that UCLA was going to be the PAC12 champ and early on it looked that way but after Arizona blew out UCLA at UCLA Ball was never the same in my opinion. He was not that effective in the PAC12 tournament either losing to Arizona in the semi finals.

The test for Ball will be if he can defend top tier NBA point guards. Lakers might now put KCP on those point guards. But he should be two grades up as a defensive player from either Jackson or Smith. He does have good size. Ball is a wizard passing the ball and setting up his teammates and I have watched good and bad moments from him in the summer league. The jury is out as far as I am concerned. He is smart enough to play right away but opposing teams with experienced NBA defenders might limit Ball's effectiveness this season. His performance in the NCAA tournament was horrible and he looked warn down. Will he be able to handle the NBA schedule?

By the way call me crazy but I think that Kennard is just as smart as Ball. He just had not had the opportunity to play point guard. Kennard and Bradley are good ball handlers and they see the court as well as guys like Ball. I wish our Piston coach would go to a no point guard type of system and play the best players on the roster who are capable ball handlers. SVG was worried about Kennard's defense before summer ball. Is there any question that he would be a better defender than either Jackson or Smith? I would love to ask SVG that question and blow his world apart. Allow players like Bradley and Kennard to play together and they can take turns bringing the ball up the court to initiate the offense then the team doesn't suffer playing point guards who cannot defend well or are too small to defend well. SVG likes speed but last season how do you have an advantage after the opposing team scores? There is no advantage and the team has to be able to execute in the half court offense. Smith and Jackson could get up the court fast after made baskets but couldn't initiate any offense because they both dribbled around too much trying to get their own shot or over penetrated out of control like inexperienced college point guards. I I were the owner that would be the main reason why I would want to fire SVG as the head coach. He never made any changes to the offense based on point guards hoging the basketball. Players hate playing in that lame type of system. When you see Cleveland use Labron as their play maker who dribbles the ball up the court when they have an excellent point guard in Irving, why in hell does SVG stand pat living in the dark ages while allowing two point guards who can't cut it against top tier point guards on defense and also are completely ineffective unless they dominate the basketball on offense? Would SVG want to play the 2 guard in that type of system. You can bet if he was a player coach the offensive system would change very quickly. Our head coach should have his pay reduced by 75% based on his coaching from last season. Only a retarded basketball person would say otherwise. Look at the roster and play the smartest and most capable players together to get the best result and just do the right thing based on what is happening in the present instead of wishing and wondering if Reggie Jackson will have enough energy to run from baseline to baseline fast for more than two minutes. I know SVG coaches based on contracts. That is the laziest and dumbest thing that i have ever heard of but others have brought that up and based on the evidence from last year, it must be true.

Oracle wrote:He goes from one contract year to another, with a chance to really If he can put together his considerable gifts.

1. Defense
2. Shooting, so far only a gift in certain situations
3. Assists on a team that can shoot
4. Leadership, he can lead on the Lakers, and likely will be looked to by the young Lakers. He's the old man now, LOL.
5. Transition scoring along with pull up 3's
6. Steals

There isn't another 2 guard in the league that doesn't play for GS that would be better(if anybody can think of one, let me know). But that's a big ask in one year, so he just needs to string a few of them together and he'll be set.

He was chosen by Magic Johnson personally because Magic knows that if he does pull these things together, the Lakers will want him when they land Paul George and strike out on getting LeBron. Magic only had 17M available, but he cleared another 1M to show good faith and KCP signed.

It wasn't the money he desired, but it's still more money than he's worth at his current numbers. But as I say, you bet on what you believe a player can deliver on, not where they are today unless they've peaked and you know what you're purchasing.

KCP fit better with the 76'ers, but this is a VERY good deal because in either the case of the Nets or the Lakers, he'll get prime coverage being in either NY or LA, the best markets if you can perform well.

Sparma: When I was a young Engineer, some older guys in my group took me under their wing. Flash forward 3 years and now I'm a real Engineer, they treat me like the kid they always see me as. I had to leave that group(the nest) and go where I entered as a new man, not the kid fresh from school.

KCP needed to get out of here! He's seen a lot of dysfunction here and going elsewhere, provides a fresh slate and the opportunity to just grow up and into a new role in his basketball life. I don't think he's ever coming back unless SVG is gone or he fails miserably. I really don't believe in going back, except in very strange circumstances.

Don: I haven't seen very much of Ball. I've actually heard of his father more than him. You know a lot about the PAC 10, is this guy any good and what future do you think he has.

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Why did the Lakers clear space for KCP, and what do analysts think of SVG's coaching?

Post  Oracle on Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:41 pm

This article was interest because it took a cold look at what KCP does and doesn't do. However, the thing that stuck out for me was just how little people thought of SVG's coaching. They never mention him by name, but the way they talk about how the team is run shows how little they think of it.

In short, they look at what KCP does and they appear to know that they can help him reach his potential because nobody in their right mind runs an offense like the Pistons have since SVG has been here. So Magic dropped some no name guy to get the space to sign KCP because he believes they can make him better and use that to sell LeBron to come to LA(they're dreaming there, IMO, but who knows). Underlines are from me, not the article.
Article wrote:Some of the issues Caldwell-Pope has on that end can be blamed on the Pistons system, or lack thereof. From 2016 to 2017, they went from 19th in points per game to 26th, and 13th to 24th in efficiency. Detroit doesn’t have an identity. They’ve built their brand on defense. Last year, they at least had Reggie Jackson playing at a high level, but that wasn’t the case this time around because he was dealing with different ailments. Is it a coincidence that Caldwell-Pope had a better season in 2016 when he had an effective weapon next to him? No, because great point guards make their teammates better.

Being an average isolation player at best, KCP needs other guys to attract attention. With the Lakers, he’ll have Brook Lopez, Julius Randle, Brandon Ingram and Jordan Clarkson with Lonzo Ball conducting everything. Despite poor showings in Vegas, Ball is going to have a solid rookie season. Even if he’s not putting up numbers, his unselfishness is contagious. And that’s easy to see even with the Baby Lakers.

I envision Caldwell-Pope getting ample catch-and-shoot opportunities, where he posted a 55.1 effective field goal percentage; on threes, KCP connected on 36.8 percent, which would’ve been good enough for fourth on the Lakers 2016-17 roster. (Per Synergy, only Lou Williams, Tyler Ennis and Nick Young shot better. Also, Tarik Black did too, but he didn’t have enough volume for me to include him.) On spot ups, Caldwell-Pope put up 0.94 points per possession, tying him with Jordan Clarkson. His eFG percentage on those attempts was 47.5 percent, and it once again slides him nicely into what the Lakers are already doing.

Luke Walton is still the coach, so I can’t see Los Angeles switching up the playbook too much. If anything, they’ll be more pass-friendly. When it comes to Caldwell-Pope, I just don’t see Lonzo missing him on open looks; he’s too talented a point guard for that to happen.

The Lakers can also experiment with KCP’s versatility. Lonzo is more than capable of playing off the ball, and Caldwell-Pope finished last year in the 70th percentile as the pick-and-roll ball handler. That’s impressive. He generated 0.89 points per possessions and had the third-lowest turnover percentage on the Pistons (11.2). He’s not as dangerous as some of his contemporaries, but he’s an astute decision-maker who doesn’t make boneheaded plays.

I’m excited to see the development in that aspect. I’m also intrigued to see if KCP looks better coming off screens, on cuts, etc. For a two guard, Caldwell-Pope hasn’t shown us that he’s a feared threat away from the action. Then again, the Pistons offense was about as frightening as a baked potato. Maybe the Lakers make him look better than he actually is. If that’s the case, there’s the chance he re-signs with them to help their recruiting efforts for LeBron James and Paul George. Then again, Caldwell-Pope will command a lot more money if he finally breaks through his ceiling, and the Lakers would have to let him walk if they’re unable to work out a cap-friendly deal.

The other thing to keep an eye on is KCP’s ability to create for himself. I touched on it briefly, but it’s not his most endearing asset. The best shot creators have an extraordinary skill about them. Guys like Kyrie Irving, James Harden and Stephen Curry are all magicians with the basketball and use that to get anywhere on the floor; LeBron James, Kevin Durant and Giannis Antetokounmpo are athletic freaks of nature who can overpower or go through anyone who gets in their way. Caldwell-Pope isn’t either. He’s a solid athlete with good ball skills, but they’re nothing to write home about. Even when he’s able to get close to the basket, it’s usually an assisted bucket (58.1 percent of the time, actually.)

Where he excels is the mid-range, and that’s a bothersome zone for anyone to defend. Last year, Synergy noted that Caldwell-Pope connected on 40.2 percent of his 245 attempts from that area. From the straight-away three, it plummeted to 33.4. If I’m the Lakers, I want KCP to take one dribble inside of the arc because it’s a nearly seven percent improvement. That’s tremendous. It’s unconventional given today’s landscape, but, if it works consistently, no one’s going to care.

Caldwell-Pope doesn’t need to reinvent the wheel, just perfect it. A mid-range clip of 40.2 is decent and gives a foundation to build upon.

Signing KCP is a good deal for both parties. Los Angeles has been on the wrong end of a few bad contracts, but Magic Johnson and Rob Pelinka have been working to rectify any and all of the poor decisions that the front office made in the past. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope’s contract is just another notch in the belt. He has a chance to be considerably better than he was with the Pistons. If that doesn’t happen, the Lakers aren’t tied up and will still have the cap flexibility to make a big move next summer.
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Ballin

Post  Oracle on Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:35 pm

BallinD wrote:What is the vision?  I asked this a few weeks ago.  Apparently the answer is, there is none.  I've posed that question in a few posts as well, post all of the movement, and it's still a good question. Hopefully we'll get an answer soon, I'm sure SVG knows he needs one.

Vice Sports:Road To Nowhere "Some of these teams might figure out something eventually, but it probably won't happen before they settle on a coherent answer to the question: Where are we going? Only then will it start to get better."

No Core, Unless Weggie comes back from seeing the Wizard with a brain transplant and a knee, Dre gets a heart and a brain transplant, and SVG gets that same brain transplant.) This is where the vision needs to start, IMO.

Kennard and Bradley play the same position and apparently have the brains and the heart. One we got for four years, the other, possibly 4-5 if we're lucky.  Who will stir the drink?  We need a PG big time, even more so than a big man as the NBA moves away from lumbering beasts (personified by Andre) unless the new nose the Wizard gave him is enough to kickstart weight-loss, defensive intensity and effort. I think Sparma sees this close to what I do, judging from his KCP coming back remark, but he can speak for himself.  I can't read minds, but I'd bet that Bradley is more than pissed he got sent here, and I can't see any way on this planet that we could change that feeling in one year. Even if we have a good season, we're talking maybe 5th or 6th seed in a weak conference and he's way too smart to think it's real. IMO, he's gone after serving one year beyond a doubt, unless he pulls his annual "get hurt" act, or has a horrible year. Even then he'll likely get a better offer from a team he believes will offer a better shot at winning.

Old, post-trade Reggie could do it assist-wise.  Does the witch have his brain and heart locked up in her castle?   Inquiring minds and SVG wanna know. Hope springs eternal.

*BTW, Did anybody else see Donovan Mitchell's summer league explosion for 37pts.  Wow!! No I didn't see it, but he was my pick, and he also had 8 steals in that game! I'm happy with what I saw in Kennard, but that was one amazing performance!
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KCP gets a Mulligan

Post  Oracle on Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:52 pm

He goes from one contract year to another, with a chance to really If he can put together his considerable gifts.

1. Defense
2. Shooting, so far only a gift in certain situations
3. Assists on a team that can shoot
4. Leadership, he can lead on the Lakers, and likely will be looked to by the young Lakers. He's the old man now, LOL.
5. Transition scoring along with pull up 3's
6. Steals

There isn't another 2 guard in the league that doesn't play for GS that would be better(if anybody can think of one, let me know). But that's a big ask in one year, so he just needs to string a few of them together and he'll be set.

He was chosen by Magic Johnson personally because Magic knows that if he does pull these things together, the Lakers will want him when they land Paul George and strike out on getting LeBron. Magic only had 17M available, but he cleared another 1M to show good faith and KCP signed.

It wasn't the money he desired, but it's still more money than he's worth at his current numbers. But as I say, you bet on what you believe a player can deliver on, not where they are today unless they've peaked and you know what you're purchasing.

KCP fit better with the 76'ers, but this is a VERY good deal because in either the case of the Nets or the Lakers, he'll get prime coverage being in either NY or LA, the best markets if you can perform well.

Sparma: When I was a young Engineer, some older guys in my group took me under their wing. Flash forward 3 years and now I'm a real Engineer, they treat me like the kid they always see me as. I had to leave that group(the nest) and go where I entered as a new man, not the kid fresh from school.

KCP needed to get out of here! He's seen a lot of dysfunction here and going elsewhere, provides a fresh slate and the opportunity to just grow up and into a new role in his basketball life. I don't think he's ever coming back unless SVG is gone or he fails miserably. I really don't believe in going back, except in very strange circumstances.

Don: I haven't seen very much of Ball. I've actually heard of his father more than him. You know a lot about the PAC 10, is this guy any good and what future do you think he has.
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Road to Nowhere Mr. Wizard? No Yellow Brick Road?

Post  BallinD on Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:54 am

What is the vision?  I asked this a few weeks ago.  Apparently the answer is, there is none.  

Vice Sports:Road To Nowhere "Some of these teams might figure out something eventually, but it probably won't happen before they settle on a coherent answer to the question: Where are we going? Only then will it start to get better."

No Core, Unless Weggie comes back from seeing the Wizard with a brain transplant and a knee, Dre gets a heart and a brain transplant, and SVG gets that same brain transplant.)

Kennard and Bradley play the same position and apparently have the brains and the heart. One we got for four years, the other, possibly 4-5 if we're lucky.  Who will stir the drink?  We need a PG big time, even more so than a big man as the NBA moves away from lumbering beasts (personified by Andre) unless the new nose the Wizard gave him is enough to kickstart weight-loss, defensive intensity and effort.

Old, post-trade Reggie could do it assist-wise.  Does the witch have his brain and heart locked up in her castle?   Inquiring minds and SVG wanna know.

*BTW, Did anybody else see Donovan Mitchell's summer league explosion for 37pts. Wow!!


Last edited by BallinD on Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : BTW)
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