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Oracle
cool breeze
lemonpen
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Better off?
Good post, BallinD. I think this will be a more fun, charged up, cohesive group than last year's team. Easier to market heading in to their new home! And I expect it to be a winning team, as opposed to last year's. But they still face the low ceiling issue I've belabored; I'm in full agreement with BallinD on that. In that way, this upheaval isn't what I'd advocated, which would be paired with a long term ball to compete at the highest level. Still, I give SVG, again, for being opportunistic and decisive in pursuit of incremental upgrades.
BallinD wrote:All Roads Lead To Rome, in the olden days. In the modern era, they say "It's all Good!" At this juncture in the Pistons "rebuild on the fly," I am eager to see this year's product.
I am reminded of the excitement when Ish led a modest three game winning streak and the Pistons were fun to watch, or the era of the Tolliver Effect, a.k.a. the Brandon Jennings Era of Glory Shortlived.
That's all. I have no illusions that we will be back atop the mountain. I remember the work it took to get there and I just dont see it with this group, but we can hope that we have fun, kick some ass and take some names along the way. To me, Kennard, paired with Ellensen, SJ and somebody's point guard could restore the roar of the mighty Pistons pushing out the horsepower!
Sparma- Posts : 2552
Join date : 2011-12-17
KCP
Wouldn't it be something if KCP makes his way back to the D next year (say for 12 mil per), with Bradley leaving? I wouldn't rule that out, what with SVG's love of returnees. Evidently, Jonas Jerebko was Tolliver's competition for a return (per Vince Ellis).
deusXango wrote:KCP got paid by the Lakers (not what he wanted) and I'm glad; he finally has a PG that'll allow him to play his game as a scorer. How much of an uptick in his scoring average remains to be seen, but with a young coach, who can coach, he shouldn't be lurking out on the 3 line, but getting out on breaks, receiving those "dimes" from Lonzo Ball, and having fun. Listen to Magic/Walton and make this year payoff young man!
Now that he's in the west we can see, for sure, just how good a defensive player he is, or not.
Sparma- Posts : 2552
Join date : 2011-12-17
KCP
KCP got paid by the Lakers (not what he wanted) and I'm glad; he finally has a PG that'll allow him to play his game as a scorer. How much of an uptick in his scoring average remains to be seen, but with a young coach, who can coach, he shouldn't be lurking out on the 3 line, but getting out on breaks, receiving those "dimes" from Lonzo Ball, and having fun. Listen to Magic/Walton and make this year payoff young man!
Now that he's in the west we can see, for sure, just how good a defensive player he is, or not.
Now that he's in the west we can see, for sure, just how good a defensive player he is, or not.
deusXango- Posts : 3076
Join date : 2011-12-21
Location : Oaxaca, Mexico
They Used To Say
All Roads Lead To Rome, in the olden days. In the modern era, they say "It's all Good!" At this juncture in the Pistons "rebuild on the fly," I am eager to see this year's product.
I am reminded of the excitement when Ish led a modest three game winning streak and the Pistons were fun to watch, or the era of the Tolliver Effect, a.k.a. the Brandon Jennings Era of Glory Shortlived.
That's all. I have no illusions that we will be back atop the mountain. I remember the work it took to get there and I just dont see it with this group, but we can hope that we have fun, kick some ass and take some names along the way. To me, Kennard, paired with Ellensen, SJ and somebody's point guard could restore the roar of the mighty Pistons pushing out the horsepower!
I am reminded of the excitement when Ish led a modest three game winning streak and the Pistons were fun to watch, or the era of the Tolliver Effect, a.k.a. the Brandon Jennings Era of Glory Shortlived.
That's all. I have no illusions that we will be back atop the mountain. I remember the work it took to get there and I just dont see it with this group, but we can hope that we have fun, kick some ass and take some names along the way. To me, Kennard, paired with Ellensen, SJ and somebody's point guard could restore the roar of the mighty Pistons pushing out the horsepower!
BallinD- Posts : 945
Join date : 2015-10-29
Location : Milky Way
Well, you blow it up guys were smarter than the average poster...
Ok, it's not a full blowup, there were no WMD involved, but it's clear that guys like me that thought we needed to stand pat, got tossed out on our pat asses.
SVG is much bolder than I thought he was, and IMO, it was the clear recognition that we couldn't afford KCP in the short or long term that was the catalyst of this change.
We don't know how this will turn out, but he's getting style points from this poster for making, what looks like a strategic attempt to remake the team just enough while staying competitive.
I have to believe the fall of so many playoff teams in the east leads one to believe that we can make the playoffs if we're competitive and then be positioned to do more damage the following year.
Props to the guys pushing for this, you were right about the direction, I just hope the results are good, and we have to make the playoffs for this to be successful, otherwise a true blow it up would have been the better prescription.
Sparma, we were getting guard heavy, and Reggie is so into the old school, he may be out of the door.
Go Pistons!!!
SVG is much bolder than I thought he was, and IMO, it was the clear recognition that we couldn't afford KCP in the short or long term that was the catalyst of this change.
We don't know how this will turn out, but he's getting style points from this poster for making, what looks like a strategic attempt to remake the team just enough while staying competitive.
I have to believe the fall of so many playoff teams in the east leads one to believe that we can make the playoffs if we're competitive and then be positioned to do more damage the following year.
Props to the guys pushing for this, you were right about the direction, I just hope the results are good, and we have to make the playoffs for this to be successful, otherwise a true blow it up would have been the better prescription.
Sparma, we were getting guard heavy, and Reggie is so into the old school, he may be out of the door.
Go Pistons!!!
Sparma wrote:I've been as critical of Reggie as the next guy, but I'd actually oppose a cash dump in a deal with NO at this point. I'm liking what the team looks like (even if good'ol Tolliver doesn't move the needle much) and would like to see it play out for a while. I'm guessing a cash dump deal will still be available into the season, unless Reg's a complete disaster. There may be a bit of a chemistry risk in way, but let's take a chance and see what we have.
P.S. In one of the Reggie rumor stories (right), the writer reasons that while Holiday and Reg are both too ball dominant to play together much, Reg could come off the bench, as his role in OKC attests. I like the idea of Reg off the bench, but the idea that his OKC experience serves as backing for this being a good idea looks dubious.
P.P.S. Is it possible the Pistons front office is putting his [very specific] rumor out there as a motivator to Reggie, like, see how much we value you right now, you'd better pull it together?
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
I don't get it
What one author described as a cash dump for Reggie, doesn't look that way in the detailed DBB account. I'm confused after reading that why the trade would make sense (to either team, as the author notes).
Sparma- Posts : 2552
Join date : 2011-12-17
Reggie on the way out in cash dump?
I've been as critical of Reggie as the next guy, but I'd actually oppose a cash dump in a deal with NO at this point. I'm liking what the team looks like (even if good'ol Tolliver doesn't move the needle much) and would like to see it play out for a while. I'm guessing a cash dump deal will still be available into the season, unless Reg's a complete disaster. There may be a bit of a chemistry risk in way, but let's take a chance and see what we have.
P.S. In one of the Reggie rumor stories (right), the writer reasons that while Holiday and Reg are both too ball dominant to play together much, Reg could come off the bench, as his role in OKC attests. I like the idea of Reg off the bench, but the idea that his OKC experience serves as backing for this being a good idea looks dubious.
P.P.S. Is it possible the Pistons front office is putting his [very specific] rumor out there as a motivator to Reggie, like, see how much we value you right now, you'd better pull it together?
P.S. In one of the Reggie rumor stories (right), the writer reasons that while Holiday and Reg are both too ball dominant to play together much, Reg could come off the bench, as his role in OKC attests. I like the idea of Reg off the bench, but the idea that his OKC experience serves as backing for this being a good idea looks dubious.
P.P.S. Is it possible the Pistons front office is putting his [very specific] rumor out there as a motivator to Reggie, like, see how much we value you right now, you'd better pull it together?
Sparma- Posts : 2552
Join date : 2011-12-17
Yo' BallinD you been holding it down with Juice!
You know, sometime in my fanaticizing about what'll make the team better, I make some misjudgments that I only see the true value in, in retrospect, for example, I wanted Bullock back (who stays hurt all the damn time), but could only see Tolliver's age (not his production or the fact he can/will be a willing teacher for Ellenson, who's our future). The good news is, we're on the same page now and in mutual agreement about Tolliver. In all honesty, if I had to bring on a "retread" it'd have been Ilyasova, but Tolliver is who we have and he ain't bad.BallinD wrote:Looks like we signed a couple of your "retreads." I know you did not want Tolliver, while I do, but since we agree on the bread and butter of the Pistons fortunes and misfortunes, we can agree to disagree on that. But it is true that he shot better than Leuer, though he is shorter and older, so there is that. Hope he's still got something in the tank.
Speaking of tank, there is none of that going on here...in Pistonland.
deusXango- Posts : 3076
Join date : 2011-12-21
Location : Oaxaca, Mexico
My hat is off to the boss
Marcus Morris for Avery Bradley and a 2nd round pick? Great and gutsy move that height has nothing to do with. All defensive 1st Team is not done with smoke and mirrors, just season long effort or consistency, if you will. Welcome Mr. Bradley.
The rights to KCP renounced? IMHO a sensible and gutsy move giving Caldwell-Pope the opportunity to get what he thinks he's worth, which we couldn't afford to do. FA movement is a time consuming process and we didn't have the time to dicker with KCP/Rich Paul over money that would've put us deeper in a hole, instead of lifting us out...we didn't win with him, so if we win without him, we've saved money, infused new talent into the mix, and excited the fan base.
The Summer League performance of Eric Moreland has earned him a chance to show his wares on the big stage, providing he stays healthy, and make Drummond either sh!t or get off the pot! He may not be the rebounder that Dre is, but he appears to be a harder worker, a superior defender, and smarter player. I hope he comes with some consistency also.
Langston Galloway covers a lot of ground, making him worth every penny SVG has committed to him; 3rd PG? Backup SG? Another high percentage 3 ball shooter? An asset in a trade for that super star we're looking for? He doesn't have to take any PT away from Luke Kennard's development or make Ish Smith expendable, just be ready when called on.
Should Reggie Bullock stay healthy this year, he brings a certain something to the team, as do Anthony Tolliver; two veterans that know SVG's demands and the core players on the team. Both are reliable long range shooters, which adds to the arsenal that the Pistons haven't had since SVG's been in charge. Henry Ellenson has a mentor in Tolliver this year, more than a competitor...Jon Leuer now has two competitors.
If Andre Drummond can be parlayed as a starting point for a major trade, it won't hurt as much today; if Reggie Jackson doesn't return to form this year, it's already been proven that the team can be competitive without him. I'm geeked!
I don't know how SVG is going to perform as a HC this year, but he's damn sure put this team back on track for success this year, and I ain't one to be making excuses for our potential success by saying, "it's because the east is going to be so much weaker." I'm measuring our success by whos' ass we kick on a consistent basis and who we lose to, but throw a scare into, for future reference. Success is watching our young'uns develop and the veterans do what veterans do; guide 'em, teach 'em, and have their backs. I'm so impressed with what SVG/Bower has done so far, and can't wait until the season starts in the new arena.
Oh, and if Bradley signs for the max, it makes more sense to me than paying any of our current max players, who haven't earned any All Anything awards. If we paid KCP a max contract, what would've Morris been looking for when his gem of a contract ran out?
The rights to KCP renounced? IMHO a sensible and gutsy move giving Caldwell-Pope the opportunity to get what he thinks he's worth, which we couldn't afford to do. FA movement is a time consuming process and we didn't have the time to dicker with KCP/Rich Paul over money that would've put us deeper in a hole, instead of lifting us out...we didn't win with him, so if we win without him, we've saved money, infused new talent into the mix, and excited the fan base.
The Summer League performance of Eric Moreland has earned him a chance to show his wares on the big stage, providing he stays healthy, and make Drummond either sh!t or get off the pot! He may not be the rebounder that Dre is, but he appears to be a harder worker, a superior defender, and smarter player. I hope he comes with some consistency also.
Langston Galloway covers a lot of ground, making him worth every penny SVG has committed to him; 3rd PG? Backup SG? Another high percentage 3 ball shooter? An asset in a trade for that super star we're looking for? He doesn't have to take any PT away from Luke Kennard's development or make Ish Smith expendable, just be ready when called on.
Should Reggie Bullock stay healthy this year, he brings a certain something to the team, as do Anthony Tolliver; two veterans that know SVG's demands and the core players on the team. Both are reliable long range shooters, which adds to the arsenal that the Pistons haven't had since SVG's been in charge. Henry Ellenson has a mentor in Tolliver this year, more than a competitor...Jon Leuer now has two competitors.
If Andre Drummond can be parlayed as a starting point for a major trade, it won't hurt as much today; if Reggie Jackson doesn't return to form this year, it's already been proven that the team can be competitive without him. I'm geeked!
I don't know how SVG is going to perform as a HC this year, but he's damn sure put this team back on track for success this year, and I ain't one to be making excuses for our potential success by saying, "it's because the east is going to be so much weaker." I'm measuring our success by whos' ass we kick on a consistent basis and who we lose to, but throw a scare into, for future reference. Success is watching our young'uns develop and the veterans do what veterans do; guide 'em, teach 'em, and have their backs. I'm so impressed with what SVG/Bower has done so far, and can't wait until the season starts in the new arena.
Oh, and if Bradley signs for the max, it makes more sense to me than paying any of our current max players, who haven't earned any All Anything awards. If we paid KCP a max contract, what would've Morris been looking for when his gem of a contract ran out?
deusXango- Posts : 3076
Join date : 2011-12-21
Location : Oaxaca, Mexico
Welcome Back DX
Looks like we signed a couple of your "retreads." I know you did not want Tolliver, while I do, but since we agree on the bread and butter of the Pistons fortunes and misfortunes, we can agree to disagree on that. But it is true that he shot better than Leuer, though he is shorter and older, so there is that. Hope he's still got something in the tank.
Speaking of tank, there is none of that going on here...in Pistonland.
Speaking of tank, there is none of that going on here...in Pistonland.
BallinD- Posts : 945
Join date : 2015-10-29
Location : Milky Way
Nasty... but...
deusXango wrote:It seems that the feelings are mutual, I don't know why you take things the way you do. I mean, Gawwwd damn, what'd I do to you to ignite such combative responses from you, when you simply could've ignored my "off the wall" statements, like all the other forumites. For the record, I still find you to be one of the most creative and insightful minds on this forum. What did you do? You don't read your own words, believing them to be sweet and clean.Oracle wrote:deusXango wrote:KCP and Monroe were two different animals altogether. "The Moose" didn't want to be a Piston for any amount, so he signed the QA that Falk suggested, as a means of getting out of Detroit. KCP wanted all he could get out of Detroit, after watching SVG throw money around like a drunken dope man in the club making it rain. He was made a fair offer, which he rejected. He didn't even cast the illusion of being worth $20+ million like Reggie (who didn't get it) or Drummond (who's been vilified since signing). I hate that KCP supporters continually mix apples in with the oranges. - Nobody equated the two, you're doing that for your own reasons and building a conversation around it. I simply stated that the ONLY thing they have in common is that they were allowed to leave with us getting nothing... period, end of comparison. Well, gee whiz, if nobody equated the two, why are you making a statement for everybody? It takes more than one person to have a conversation and so far you've been the only one to respond to my post...guilty conscience? Seriously DX, did you NOT notice that you implied that anyone that supports KCP equates the two. That's what's wrong, but don't let that stop you from blaming others for your own words!BTW, I answered your post because... NEWS FLASH: My name was in it... sheesh!
Oracle, why do you insist on stating that SVG blew $20 million in assets by not signing KCP? Did I misunderstand you? If I did I apologize. If Drummonds $25 million is an asset, or Reggie's $16 million is an asset, or Leuer's $10.5 is an asset, then these are unwanted (unless they're for pennies on the dollar) assets! Perhaps Gores and Bower told SVG "enough is enough!!" - Yes, you completely misunderstood, he blew it by not getting 20M of assets by either trading KCP or getting a S&T. This proves his incompetence because if they didn't want to resign him, they should have helped him get the best deal that would provide a S&T, KCP would have went along with that. There's been no bigger critic of SVG on this forum than me, but what I saw was a legit reason to ask a question defending his efforts to make the roster better, so I asked. I also expressed my apologies if my perception of your statement was incorrect; sorry, but my apologies don't come with displays of affection to the gluteus Maximus! More fake outrage? What about what I said didn't you like? The FACT that you misunderstood me, which I didn't blame you for, or that I didn't put it in the color type you like!
It's always better to be honest, just admit that you can't afford him and ask to work together... what's so hard about that.
I'd love for KCP to get paid as much as the next Pistons fan, but going from $3.5 million a year to a max contract, with what he's proven over the last four years, is something beyond "getting paid," it's robbery. I seriously doubt the Nets are willing to be robbery victims....their first choice was a much more productive player than KCP and the team holding his rights chose to match their offer, but the team holding the rights to KCP set the market (5 years $80 million) for him. Why would the Nets pay the max to their 2nd choice? What does KCP have going for himself to just wrestle what he wants from a pro franchise? - Wow, the dude isn't here anymore, where does all of that venom come from? Venom?! Where, my man, was the venom, directed to KCP? Yes, he's gone, but not signed by anyone as yet nor rumored to be, only speculations are out there, but my original statement still holds true, "I'd love for KCP to get paid as much as the next Pistons fan..." These are todays facts, not venom. There is is in bold, it's not only nasty, it makes absolutely no sense! You've been trained very well not to think.. more below.
But as I said, there is something even worse about your whole post in your conclusion.
What does KCP have going for himself to just wrestle what he wants from a pro franchise?
This is sick beyond belief. You have NEVER said what right do owners have to raise ticket prices, raise the prices of shirts, caps and other items they sell at outrageous prices... why doesn't that get outrage.
You're trained to attack players like they're taking YOUR money, but the people that actually take your money, you give a pass.
The fact that you can see a player as somehow extorting money from a business that in reality sets the price that they are willing to pay is beyond strange.
Pull out a mirror... if you can wrestle one from the bathroom...
Last edited by Oracle on Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Take a vacation, return home and the world has radically changed
It seems that the feelings are mutual, I don't know why you take things the way you do. I mean, Gawwwd damn, what'd I do to you to ignite such combative responses from you, when you simply could've ignored my "off the wall" statements, like all the other forumites. For the record, I still find you to be one of the most creative and insightful minds on this forum.Oracle wrote:deusXango wrote:KCP and Monroe were two different animals altogether. "The Moose" didn't want to be a Piston for any amount, so he signed the QA that Falk suggested, as a means of getting out of Detroit. KCP wanted all he could get out of Detroit, after watching SVG throw money around like a drunken dope man in the club making it rain. He was made a fair offer, which he rejected. He didn't even cast the illusion of being worth $20+ million like Reggie (who didn't get it) or Drummond (who's been vilified since signing). I hate that KCP supporters continually mix apples in with the oranges. - Nobody equated the two, you're doing that for your own reasons and building a conversation around it. I simply stated that the ONLY thing they have in common is that they were allowed to leave with us getting nothing... period, end of comparison. Well, gee whiz, if nobody equated the two, why are you making a statement for everybody? It takes more than one person to have a conversation and so far you've been the only one to respond to my post...guilty conscience?
Oracle, why do you insist on stating that SVG blew $20 million in assets by not signing KCP? Did I misunderstand you? If I did I apologize. If Drummonds $25 million is an asset, or Reggie's $16 million is an asset, or Leuer's $10.5 is an asset, then these are unwanted (unless they're for pennies on the dollar) assets! Perhaps Gores and Bower told SVG "enough is enough!!" - Yes, you completely misunderstood, he blew it by not getting 20M of assets by either trading KCP or getting a S&T. This proves his incompetence because if they didn't want to resign him, they should have helped him get the best deal that would provide a S&T, KCP would have went along with that. There's been no bigger critic of SVG on this forum than me, but what I saw was a legit reason to ask a question defending his efforts to make the roster better, so I asked. I also expressed my apologies if my perception of your statement was incorrect; sorry, but my apologies don't come with displays of affection to the gluteus Maximus!
It's always better to be honest, just admit that you can't afford him and ask to work together... what's so hard about that.
I'd love for KCP to get paid as much as the next Pistons fan, but going from $3.5 million a year to a max contract, with what he's proven over the last four years, is something beyond "getting paid," it's robbery. I seriously doubt the Nets are willing to be robbery victims....their first choice was a much more productive player than KCP and the team holding his rights chose to match their offer, but the team holding the rights to KCP set the market (5 years $80 million) for him. Why would the Nets pay the max to their 2nd choice? What does KCP have going for himself to just wrestle what he wants from a pro franchise? - Wow, the dude isn't here anymore, where does all of that venom come from? Venom?! Where, my man, was the venom, directed to KCP? Yes, he's gone, but not signed by anyone as yet nor rumored to be, only speculations are out there, but my original statement still holds true, "I'd love for KCP to get paid as much as the next Pistons fan..." These are todays facts, not venom.
deusXango- Posts : 3076
Join date : 2011-12-21
Location : Oaxaca, Mexico
We Don't Need No Stinking Arnie K
Avery has the strongest mojo known to professional athletes,
A Contract Year.
A Contract Year.
lemonpen- Posts : 1620
Join date : 2011-12-27
Location : Southfield, MI
I'm not impressed with our shooting coach or medical staff
We hired a shooting coach and the results have been dismal!
Well, dismal is an understatement since all we have done under his watchful eye is get worse every year.
Since Arnie got canned, we also appear to have more injuries and guys don't recover fast from them either.
We're going to need better medical support and better shooting coaching, I don't want to see Kennard get coached into Stanley Johnson territory.
BTW, I hope Stanley told that coach were he can go for the next lesson
It's become more important for the medical staff to get better now that we have two players with very checkered injury histories in Bullock and Bradley.
Bullock alone could keep a whole floor of a major hospital busy all by himself, but Bradley, while a distant second, is a guy that will get hurt at the drop of a hat.
Boston didn't want to resign him and had trouble moving him because of his size and injury history.
Edit: Danny Ainge is a comedian, he said that a players BEST ability is availability
Here's one of numerous articles on the subject: "Are Avery Bradley’s Injuries a Problem?"
Well, dismal is an understatement since all we have done under his watchful eye is get worse every year.
Since Arnie got canned, we also appear to have more injuries and guys don't recover fast from them either.
We're going to need better medical support and better shooting coaching, I don't want to see Kennard get coached into Stanley Johnson territory.
BTW, I hope Stanley told that coach were he can go for the next lesson
It's become more important for the medical staff to get better now that we have two players with very checkered injury histories in Bullock and Bradley.
Bullock alone could keep a whole floor of a major hospital busy all by himself, but Bradley, while a distant second, is a guy that will get hurt at the drop of a hat.
Boston didn't want to resign him and had trouble moving him because of his size and injury history.
Edit: Danny Ainge is a comedian, he said that a players BEST ability is availability
Here's one of numerous articles on the subject: "Are Avery Bradley’s Injuries a Problem?"
https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2017/02/02/avery-bradley-injury-prone/ wrote:Avery Bradley is one of the core players on the roster, but his inability to stay healthy is alarming.
The 2016-17 season has brought numerous injuries to the Boston Celtics‘ roster. The latest victim to the injury bug is starting shooting guard Avery Bradley. Are Bradley’s injury problems a real concern?
Bradley has had a break out year. He is averaging career highs in points, rebounds, assists, three-point percentage and field goal percentage. Bradley’s substantial improvement has been a bright spot in the Celtics’ season. Unfortunately, the achilles strain he suffered recently has reminded us of Bradley’s inability to stay healthy.
As much as he does for Boston, Bradley has never had a healthy season. In the playoffs last summer, the Texas product suffered a hamstring injury which practically doomed the Celtics against the Atlanta Hawks.
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Half n Half
lemonpen wrote:My best guess is he is back as an insurance policy that is known to sit quietly waiting for the next opportunity.
We may have better shooting this year, BUT I hope they are good at nailing "end of shot clock" opportunities. Just sayin ... we still have Rjax running the show.
Lemon, half of that is on SVG, maybe even 60% (playcalling) and half of that is Weggie's propensity to dribble dribble dribble probe dribble dribble till there is 5 secs on the clock and finally make a pass ending in an Iso-brick or hasty, off-balance three.
With Bradley, Kennard and Galloway available as secondary ball handlers, SVG has got to get those guys involved in that aspect of things as well. We can hope, Weggie can net us a 1st rounder if he rounds into shape, because IMO, his mind is not in the team-oriented direction since he was annointed the Piston's Top Dog and Dre-Drummond's buttbuddy.
BallinD- Posts : 945
Join date : 2015-10-29
Location : Milky Way
Good information provided in Stanley Johnson article today
The comparison to Jimmy Butler is really interesting. Also good point relating to what Bradley brings to the table in that he can still be effective even when he has to play with a ball hog like Reggie Jackson at the 2 guard.
Stan's statements regarding the Morris - Bradley & 2nd round pick trade proved that Morris was one of Stan's favorites which made it difficult but necessary to include him in the trade. Morris is the one player who stood up to challenge the SVG point guard dominate offense. He wanted more player and ball movement. Why would SVG not want choose that as well instead of the mindless offense he set in motion which is the easiest type of offense to defend against. How is it possible for a point guard to create everything int he offense? It always leads to dysfunction unless you have a superstar caliber player and even then I can't see how that type of system can work in a playoff setting. If Johnson can handle the starting small forward job he his game is built on movement. Morris stood at spots and waited. Johnson needs to be moving to create for others and use screens himself. Bradley is the same type of player. Harris is the same type of player. If SVG doesn't change the offense to make his current players reach they full potential by creating an offense to suit their skill sets than he is a fool. The pick and roll offense featuring the center and point guard is a loser and will result in more dysfunction this coming season. SVG has not always used this lame offense. He was once a good coach who created a system that worked best for the players he had on his roster as a college coach. I believe SVG will not repeat what didn't work especially banking on the starting center who quit on him last year.
Morris might now be gone but he gets my vote for being a man who did the right thing and was not afraid to make waves to save the team from embarrassment. SVG said he loved Morris and respected him more than any other player he coached last season. I wonder why he didn't listen to him relating to the way the offense functioned if that was true. That makes no sense Stan. It appears that Van Gundy decided to play patty cake with Andre and Reggie while ignoring what Morris and I believe Johnson were saying about the offensive style. Stan picked what wasn't working to appease the players who ended up quitting on him. SVG placed his faith on the two players with the biggest contracts. Why even show up for the games if you do that Stan? On the front office side, SVG and his staff get an A for making this trade happen. Now please try to get an A on the coaching side Stan. Do the right thing. Stop kissing Andre's butt. Force Reggie to become a real point guard on offense and not get lazy on defense. If either betray the coach this time especially when they fake it on defense, then the coach has to assert himself unlike last season. The two troubled souls might need to have their mouths taped shut so they cannot infect other players and sit at the end of the bench until they can be moved off the team. If they cause trouble fine their asses. If they decide to buy in to the new program and get in shape to play this season, then everyone will respect them. The coach and two players need to offer a new act and the coach needs to set the standard before training camp begins. Maybe if Drummond is interested Moreland can teach him how to box out. I would be in shock to actually see Andre anticipate where his man might be located and get a body on him. Somehow SVG has had blinders on for a long time. He has done a lot of talking about introspection so start coaching and stop talking about it.
Stan's statements regarding the Morris - Bradley & 2nd round pick trade proved that Morris was one of Stan's favorites which made it difficult but necessary to include him in the trade. Morris is the one player who stood up to challenge the SVG point guard dominate offense. He wanted more player and ball movement. Why would SVG not want choose that as well instead of the mindless offense he set in motion which is the easiest type of offense to defend against. How is it possible for a point guard to create everything int he offense? It always leads to dysfunction unless you have a superstar caliber player and even then I can't see how that type of system can work in a playoff setting. If Johnson can handle the starting small forward job he his game is built on movement. Morris stood at spots and waited. Johnson needs to be moving to create for others and use screens himself. Bradley is the same type of player. Harris is the same type of player. If SVG doesn't change the offense to make his current players reach they full potential by creating an offense to suit their skill sets than he is a fool. The pick and roll offense featuring the center and point guard is a loser and will result in more dysfunction this coming season. SVG has not always used this lame offense. He was once a good coach who created a system that worked best for the players he had on his roster as a college coach. I believe SVG will not repeat what didn't work especially banking on the starting center who quit on him last year.
Morris might now be gone but he gets my vote for being a man who did the right thing and was not afraid to make waves to save the team from embarrassment. SVG said he loved Morris and respected him more than any other player he coached last season. I wonder why he didn't listen to him relating to the way the offense functioned if that was true. That makes no sense Stan. It appears that Van Gundy decided to play patty cake with Andre and Reggie while ignoring what Morris and I believe Johnson were saying about the offensive style. Stan picked what wasn't working to appease the players who ended up quitting on him. SVG placed his faith on the two players with the biggest contracts. Why even show up for the games if you do that Stan? On the front office side, SVG and his staff get an A for making this trade happen. Now please try to get an A on the coaching side Stan. Do the right thing. Stop kissing Andre's butt. Force Reggie to become a real point guard on offense and not get lazy on defense. If either betray the coach this time especially when they fake it on defense, then the coach has to assert himself unlike last season. The two troubled souls might need to have their mouths taped shut so they cannot infect other players and sit at the end of the bench until they can be moved off the team. If they cause trouble fine their asses. If they decide to buy in to the new program and get in shape to play this season, then everyone will respect them. The coach and two players need to offer a new act and the coach needs to set the standard before training camp begins. Maybe if Drummond is interested Moreland can teach him how to box out. I would be in shock to actually see Andre anticipate where his man might be located and get a body on him. Somehow SVG has had blinders on for a long time. He has done a lot of talking about introspection so start coaching and stop talking about it.
cool breeze- Posts : 3817
Join date : 2011-12-21
Off Topic
If the Tigers trade Fulmer and hold on to Ausmus I swear to God I will have seen my last freakin game.
lemonpen- Posts : 1620
Join date : 2011-12-27
Location : Southfield, MI
Bullock
My best guess is he is back as an insurance policy that is known to sit quietly waiting for the next opportunity.
We may have better shooting this year, BUT I hope they are good at nailing "end of shot clock" opportunities. Just sayin ... we still have Rjax running the show.
We may have better shooting this year, BUT I hope they are good at nailing "end of shot clock" opportunities. Just sayin ... we still have Rjax running the show.
lemonpen- Posts : 1620
Join date : 2011-12-27
Location : Southfield, MI
Ballin
I wish Fennis would come back, I'm a pale imitationBallinD wrote:Oracle you brought me a smile this morning at the expense of Stan Van Buns a.k.a. the Stanosaurus. Are you the missing Fennis Denbo returned from the dead to judge the annual Philly Cheese Steak eating contest? Two finalists Stan and Andre. Winner gets a year's supply of Halo Burgers (to be eaten before training camp).
I was just up early and BORED, then I had a thought of Joe & Stan... or was that a nightmare
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Hi-Larious
Oracle you brought me a smile this morning at the expense of Stan Van Buns a.k.a. the Stanosaurus. Are you the missing Fennis Denbo returned from the dead to judge the annual Philly Cheese Steak eating contest? Two finalists Stan and Andre. Winner gets a year's supply of Halo Burgers (to be eaten before training camp).
BallinD- Posts : 945
Join date : 2015-10-29
Location : Milky Way
Joe and SVG
What is it about the Pistons lately that we have such rotund GM's. Well, clues are beginning to emerge!
Just before Joe left for that big Jelly in the sky, there were reports about that major heist of Krispy Kreme & Dunkin Donuts.
Joe and his henchmen were busted but were released due to lack of evidence, major stashes of donuts remained missing! Missing that is, until NOW!
This reporter has discovered that SVG has found, deep in the bowels of the Palace a huge cache of donuts and has been steadily eating through them. The players want to rename RoundBall One to RotundBall One, but that's not enough, SVG needs a nickname, Here's what they're throwing around.
Notorious P.I.G
Thightanic
Lard Muffin
Thicky Minaj
Can’t Run DMC
Buns and Roses
Count Fatula
There's even a new game coming out in SVG's honor
Just before Joe left for that big Jelly in the sky, there were reports about that major heist of Krispy Kreme & Dunkin Donuts.
Joe and his henchmen were busted but were released due to lack of evidence, major stashes of donuts remained missing! Missing that is, until NOW!
This reporter has discovered that SVG has found, deep in the bowels of the Palace a huge cache of donuts and has been steadily eating through them. The players want to rename RoundBall One to RotundBall One, but that's not enough, SVG needs a nickname, Here's what they're throwing around.
Notorious P.I.G
Thightanic
Lard Muffin
Thicky Minaj
Can’t Run DMC
Buns and Roses
Count Fatula
There's even a new game coming out in SVG's honor
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Oh Hell Yeah!!!
If that's true, that would be a sea change. I can pray for 11 players deep, but this being SVG, I'll settle for 10.BallinD wrote:Re-signed Bullock to a reasonable deal. If Dude can stay healthy he is a hedge at SF if Stanimal fails again to take the leap forward, plus at 6'7" he gives us height at SG if we need it. Besides the three, he is adept at cutting, running through screens and we need so much more of that.
Is SVG waking up from his slumber: "We got to do a better job of using our entire roster and Eric is different than those guys," Van Gundy said. "He can really move his feet defensively out on the perimeter to guard pick-and-rolls, block shots, take charges, protect the basket and then be that high-energy runner."
A better job of using our entire roster, he said. Music to our ears. This could be the year of the Pistons in the weakened East. It all still hinges on Weggie and Dre. Even though I wanna dump em (emotionally) as a PistonTalk guy, I recognize that it may be in our best interest to see if they can turn the corner...with an assist from SVG.
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Mo Shooting n Hints
Re-signed Bullock to a reasonable deal. If Dude can stay healthy he is a hedge at SF if Stanimal fails again to take the leap forward, plus at 6'7" he gives us height at SG if we need it. Besides the three, he is adept at cutting, running through screens and we need so much more of that.
Is SVG waking up from his slumber: "We got to do a better job of using our entire roster and Eric is different than those guys," Van Gundy said. "He can really move his feet defensively out on the perimeter to guard pick-and-rolls, block shots, take charges, protect the basket and then be that high-energy runner."
A better job of using our entire roster, he said. Music to our ears. This could be the year of the Pistons in the weakened East. It all still hinges on Weggie and Dre. Even though I wanna dump em (emotionally) as a PistonTalk guy, I recognize that it may be in our best interest to see if they can turn the corner...with an assist from SVG.
Is SVG waking up from his slumber: "We got to do a better job of using our entire roster and Eric is different than those guys," Van Gundy said. "He can really move his feet defensively out on the perimeter to guard pick-and-rolls, block shots, take charges, protect the basket and then be that high-energy runner."
A better job of using our entire roster, he said. Music to our ears. This could be the year of the Pistons in the weakened East. It all still hinges on Weggie and Dre. Even though I wanna dump em (emotionally) as a PistonTalk guy, I recognize that it may be in our best interest to see if they can turn the corner...with an assist from SVG.
BallinD- Posts : 945
Join date : 2015-10-29
Location : Milky Way
Sparma/Ballin
I have to say I'm closer to Ballin, but Sparma does ask interesting questions.
I'll confess that I simply don't know how to view this team yet, but I'm cautiously optimistic, and here's why.
I agree with Ballin that shooting should be better. The reason I do is that this year, unlike last year or before, there is an influx of more shooters than just one or two.
The law of probability is finally in our favor, and shooting covers a sh!t load of other ills if it's consistent.
Bradley is simply a much better shooter than KCP, Kennard is for real, IMO, but has to get NBA ready before we get his full production. Galloway has the credentials to shoot well and I think there will be at least one additional shooter coming.
As I've said in the past, shooting is contagious, both good and bad, so the more good shooters we have the better.
The things that bother me relate to the size of the backcourt, with only Reggie looking normal size, and he isn't particularly big for a PG at 6'3, but that's passable.
So I'm waiting for other shoes to drop, and I also agree with Ballin that SVG hasn't given up on getting a star., but I don't see one available.
BTW, there's a HUGE backlog in the backcourt, somebody may be moved, will it be Ish?
I'll confess that I simply don't know how to view this team yet, but I'm cautiously optimistic, and here's why.
I agree with Ballin that shooting should be better. The reason I do is that this year, unlike last year or before, there is an influx of more shooters than just one or two.
The law of probability is finally in our favor, and shooting covers a sh!t load of other ills if it's consistent.
Bradley is simply a much better shooter than KCP, Kennard is for real, IMO, but has to get NBA ready before we get his full production. Galloway has the credentials to shoot well and I think there will be at least one additional shooter coming.
As I've said in the past, shooting is contagious, both good and bad, so the more good shooters we have the better.
The things that bother me relate to the size of the backcourt, with only Reggie looking normal size, and he isn't particularly big for a PG at 6'3, but that's passable.
So I'm waiting for other shoes to drop, and I also agree with Ballin that SVG hasn't given up on getting a star., but I don't see one available.
BTW, there's a HUGE backlog in the backcourt, somebody may be moved, will it be Ish?
Oracle- Posts : 7504
Join date : 2011-12-21
Moving Forward
Well once again VanBower threw a monkey wrench in everyone's expectations. I am glad, being firmly in the camp of shake it up so the chemistry issues could shake out and we could begin to address the other issues one-by-one.
1. On paper, we are a better shooting team, but we thought that last offseason too. I do believe that this year it should manifest if.
a. Dre and Weggie buy into the new direction. We know they think they are joined at the hip and on the leadership tip. Dre thinks he is the leader, and Weggie thinks he is the first and second option on offense. Will Dre accept the demise of his ill-fated and stultifying offensive post ups. Will he ever learn to pass it back out once it goes in and will he get deeper position in the post and actually use that big body to do so?
b. Weggie will pass the ball in the flow of the offense and drop his ball-dominant orientation. He can do it...he passed almost like Jennings when he first got here, but then he got the contract and..."I pass to myself" became his mantra. I still neither trust, nor like him, but that is irrelevant. I will in my mind give him the rope to change his evil ways.
c. Will he try to freeze Bradley out, or not play favorites? We know he does not play well with Tobias, and due to the expectations, we can't say for sure if the vaunted P&R still has some legs, now that we got shooting on the wing outside to keep them honest. Bradley, Galloway, Kennard could keep defenders from collapsing the paint. The Iso has to go as the default 1b option. With Morris gone, Thing2 Iso (after Weggie) is handled, but Tobias has kinda been Thing3 Iso guy, so SVG has his COACHING work cut out for him. Here is where Bradley's leadership and passing and whatever dribs and drabs from Stevens he can share.
2. The same question is will Dre & Weggie buy into the defensive orientation SVG has made obvious with his moves thus far. I can't see how the pair will get the same minutes as before, given the urgency for SVG to show and prove, but I believe there will be an early season trade if the tea leaves do not augur cooperation. I could see Moreland sneaking past Dre to be our defensive anchor, the role Baynes played...minus the lobster claws.
I hesitate to draw too many conclusions moving forward as I do believe more moves are upcoming pre-season or surely by the trade deadline. I now believe SVG might be angling to get a (borderline?) star, but he is handicapped by Weggie's exceedingly low value, and apparently Andre as well. They have seen the sad sack stories featuring KCP and Baynes, and if there is a lightbulb in there, they will know a different grim reaper may be creeping up on them. I am stoked though, that it appears the lightbulb went off in the general vicinity of the one I have been calling Stupid Van Gundy.
1. On paper, we are a better shooting team, but we thought that last offseason too. I do believe that this year it should manifest if.
a. Dre and Weggie buy into the new direction. We know they think they are joined at the hip and on the leadership tip. Dre thinks he is the leader, and Weggie thinks he is the first and second option on offense. Will Dre accept the demise of his ill-fated and stultifying offensive post ups. Will he ever learn to pass it back out once it goes in and will he get deeper position in the post and actually use that big body to do so?
b. Weggie will pass the ball in the flow of the offense and drop his ball-dominant orientation. He can do it...he passed almost like Jennings when he first got here, but then he got the contract and..."I pass to myself" became his mantra. I still neither trust, nor like him, but that is irrelevant. I will in my mind give him the rope to change his evil ways.
c. Will he try to freeze Bradley out, or not play favorites? We know he does not play well with Tobias, and due to the expectations, we can't say for sure if the vaunted P&R still has some legs, now that we got shooting on the wing outside to keep them honest. Bradley, Galloway, Kennard could keep defenders from collapsing the paint. The Iso has to go as the default 1b option. With Morris gone, Thing2 Iso (after Weggie) is handled, but Tobias has kinda been Thing3 Iso guy, so SVG has his COACHING work cut out for him. Here is where Bradley's leadership and passing and whatever dribs and drabs from Stevens he can share.
2. The same question is will Dre & Weggie buy into the defensive orientation SVG has made obvious with his moves thus far. I can't see how the pair will get the same minutes as before, given the urgency for SVG to show and prove, but I believe there will be an early season trade if the tea leaves do not augur cooperation. I could see Moreland sneaking past Dre to be our defensive anchor, the role Baynes played...minus the lobster claws.
I hesitate to draw too many conclusions moving forward as I do believe more moves are upcoming pre-season or surely by the trade deadline. I now believe SVG might be angling to get a (borderline?) star, but he is handicapped by Weggie's exceedingly low value, and apparently Andre as well. They have seen the sad sack stories featuring KCP and Baynes, and if there is a lightbulb in there, they will know a different grim reaper may be creeping up on them. I am stoked though, that it appears the lightbulb went off in the general vicinity of the one I have been calling Stupid Van Gundy.
BallinD- Posts : 945
Join date : 2015-10-29
Location : Milky Way
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