Don, let me see if I get this...

[Oracle]

If we just play Ellenson, Beno, Stanley and a few other guys you'll name later, then bring back Singler, the ECF is clearly in sight

BTW, everyone that was watching the game saw how important Ish was, and if SVG had been playing him more minutes, he wouldn't have been exhausted, forcing SVG to put Reggie back in.

That's why it's important to keep Stanley on the bench, because when he plays, you don't see anybody else

[cool breeze]

But you only seem to use it when it helps out your favorites. BTW, it's alright to have favorites, but if you favor them over what's good for the team, that's when problems generally come up.

Here's the cardinal rule: Players do NOT play themselves!

You can notice that a player is playing too many minutes and for the wrong reasons, but it's the coach that does this, so focusing your ire on the player is blaming the wrong person!

Friendly reminder...

Oracle didn't you know that the NBA is a players league not a coaches league???? This is entertainment not basketball. The GM decides to sign certain players and if they bomb out the coach is stuck with them especially when the players show off so many flaws that it is impossible to trade them. So the coaching job SVG handles is his punishment for signing the same players who ignore him when he is coaching. This is a dicy situation for SVG. I have a beef with Stan Van Gundy for not doing what he did with Josh Smith. The players with the big contracts play regardless of what happens on the floor. This past weekend I attended a college game with a former NBA assistant coach. After listening to me bitching a lot in the car going to and coming home from the game about the way Detroit is playing basketball, my friend said, didn't you know the NBA is now more of a guard orientated league than it has ever been? My buddy pointed out that the draft boards have many point guards listed as the top overall picks in this coming draft. There are some good guards entering this draft and by the way, Boston might end up getting the top pick. And notice that Boston is winning and Jonas Jerebco is a starter. He wan't goo enough for Stan Van Gundy. Jerebco is playing because he does a lot of the little things well and makes his teammates better. He is not even a 3rd option scorer for this team. But as Bill Walton says in his books, every team needs at least one or two players who are willing to do the dirty work and no team wins without them. We have none. All of our starters are one on one shooters who are feeble defenders.

Knowing that the NBA is a guard dominated league where usually the teams that win have the best point guards and two guards, Detroit management decided to go in a different direction. We have a center dominated team money wise and it isn't working. In past Piston history, did the Pistons ever win a damn thing when Bob Lanier played? the answer is NO. Even worse, Andre Drummond is not a fundamentally sound player. He seldom is a game changer. He can't even be trusted to be on the court in crunch time and he is the franchise player. Meanwhile we have the worst set of starting guards in the entire league. Plus we have a back up point guard that every team in the league loves playing against. On this team, less is better relating to how much our two point guards touch the basketball but both point guards are playing their own game plan. They both freeze out certain players and play one side of the court which is opposite of where the 2 guard stands possession after possession. Maybe the only reason why an opposing defender is standing within 10 feet of the Piston 2 guard is the fact that their team might get called for the 3 second rule. It was clear to me in the first half against Boston when Bullock and Johnson entered the game that Reggie intensionally refused to pass the basketball to either player. Johnson only touched the ball after he got a steal and then was fouled or when he got a defensive rebound. He did receive one pass on the wing from a player other than one of the point guards. But when thinking of Bullock, he never got to touch the basketball on any offensive possession. And Bullock was playing the 2 guard position which should get the head coaches attention big time. That is called a freeze out. This team settles for the first option and every team in the league knows that they do not run a real half court offense. And the point guards decide before the games as to who they will pass the basketball to instead of passing to the open player. In the first half, how many times was there either no pass at all by the point guard or one pass that led to a long 3 point bomb? For around 8 minutes towards the last third of the first quarter and throughout the 2nd quarter, there was no attempt to get the ball inside on a 2nd or 3rd option play that this team does work on in practice. I think one time Harris drove from the wing and passed the ball to Leuer who was fouled under the basket. One time Pope was on a fast break and had an open lane to the basket but pulled up and missed a 3 point shot during a period when no Piston player could hit a 3 point shot. That was a stupid decision coming from a player with the experience that Pope has and also knowing that he has not been hitting his 3 point shot lately is mind numbing. If he had driven hard to the hoop and dunked the ball, that could have given him a positive spark. Would a guy like Zeke have ever made that decision? Would John Wall do that? No Zeke and Wall would have taken the sure thing which would be an easy layup. After all they are players who concentrate on winning games not showing off. This is the Pistons sports fans. The players are not following any game plan. The coach is ignored by the players with the big contracts. Charles Barkley made this statement before the game started. We have those players he talked about who tune out the coach. They do not listen to coaching. There are players who regardless of how much money they make still want to be the best players in the world. We do not have those type of players. Our vet players like Drummond and Jackson beat to their own drum and are not interested in becoming great players. I don't think Andre Drummond could ever become a great player because he doesn't have the mindset to become great. He is one of those guys who was handed a huge contract and will be content to just show up and play his game. That is why we saw Andre attempt that turn around hook shot against Horeford on the first Piston possession of the game. He made that shot but why did he shoot it in the first place?? When the Pistons had a good streak of wins, they got the ball inside and back outside and then the ball went from side to side. Now Reggie and Andre are playing their own game and all others are excluded. And Andre Drummond is the worst center defensively in the league with the exception of Greg Monroe. If there was any way to trade Drummond and Jackson, for a first round pick or two, that is what should be done but there is no team in the league who wants their contracts. Much like the days when Rodney Stuckey signed a contract which was much less than those Andre and Reggie signed, he tanked and even went so far as to tell the coach that he was happy coming off the bench and no team in the league wanted Rodney Stuckey when Joe tried to trade him.

If Stan Van Gundy wants to shake things up because he can't trade his big contract players, then he should start Boban and bring Andre off the bench in the 2nd quarter and the last half of the 3rd and first half of the 4th quarter. Detroit should bench both point guards and start Beno and then come in with a point forward to bring the ball up the court. Then we might see some real basketball. I would start Bullock if that happens to see if he can play and I think he can be a much better 2 guard than Pope will ever become. My biggest fear is if Piston management decides to make that critical decision to over pay Pope we fans are doomed to years of basketball like we have been watching this season. Nobody will want Pope for his current asking price so the Pistons will do the same old thing of bidding against themselves.

My issue with Stan Van Gundy's horrible decision to sign Ish Smith and play him regardless of how he performs and he performed extremely poorly against Miami and played more under control against Boston is the fact that our starter is Reggie jackson so there is no upside coming in the future with this combination. If the Pistons had a young developing highly talented point guard on the roster coming off the bench that we could pull for as the savior in the future at least we would have something to look forward to. But Ish Smith is never going to play any better than he is playing right now. He was not in high demand at the time Van Gundy signed him. At the time when Philly was a last place team they decided to keep their undrafted rookie TJ McConnell instead of signing Smith. I REPEAT AS MY BUDDY SAID, THE NBA IS A GUARD DRIVEN LEAGUE. THE PISTONS HAVE DECIDED TO KEEP 2ND RATE GUARDS AS THEIR STARTERS AND DEVELOP THEM WHILE THE FRANCHISE PLAYER IS A CENTER WHO IS NOT ANTHONY DAVIS. DAVIS IS THE ONLY BIG MAN THAT I KNOW WHO CURRENTLY PLAYS IN THE NBA THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED A FRANCHISE PLAYER. CHARLES BARKLEY STATED THAT HE THOUGHT DRUMMOND WAS THE PISTONS BEST PLAYER. AND ALL OF US KNOW THAT ANDRE DRUMMOND HAS AN EXTREMELY LOW BASKETBALL IQ AND HAS NEVER BEEN AND MOST LIKELY WILL NEVER BE A FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND TWO WAY PLAYER. HE WILL ALWAYS BE A HARD GUY TO COACH. HIS COLLEGE COACH IDENTIFIED THAT FACT. Stan Van Gundy is at fault for making the Pistons into a center dominated team instead of a high quality guard dominated team. We have point guards who dominate but they are both 2nd tier type players. They will continue to get their asses handed to them by the real stud guards of the NBA. We fans will bicker about the players on the fringe and their potential. I feel for any skill player on the fringe who play basketball with Jackson and Smith.By the way, I noticed in the first half where Boston tried on every possession to get Smith in a mis match when the Pistons were on defense and by golly they managed to do it many times. Horeford against Smith in the paint. Just keep on switching Piston players. It is so easy to just switch and then stand. Opps but how will Smith match up with Horeford? Oh who gives a crap Piston fans are not paying attention. Which party are we going to after we fly home from Boston? We don't care if the fans don't show up. That is the owners problem.

Surprise surprise Piston fans, every team in the NBA has this Piston team figured out. And the coach allows his big contract players to continue to ignore all the fundamentals and the game plan. What do you do in the high school or college game when a player ignores your game plan and just does his thing? Yes you sit that player or groups of players if they do not conform and play the right way. But this is the NBA so you have to let the big contract players stink up the basketball arena. Why any Piston fan would actually pay money to watch this nonsense is insane. Watching the first half, it looked like a game of HORSE was being played by our key players who were firing the 3 ball over and over from the top of the key while the small forward and 2 guard was standing on the baseline like statues. The team never ran their half court offense.

Is Stan Van Gundy making an ass out out of himself when talking about politics just to keep Piston fans off balance and away from thinking about the players he is coaching and how he is coaching?

[Phil-Good]

what we are seeing since Reggie Jackson has returned to the team is guys don't like playing with Reggie.

The team response better to Ish Smith because he is more fun to play with. Guys know that if they run and work hard to get open Ish will get them the basketball. Reggie Jackson, not so much.

This is the question I would ask Reggie Jackson about the Boston game tonight.

Damn Reggie. You drove to the rim 4 time and got double team 4 times at the end of the game and you could not find 1 pass to A open man?

F.U.C.K MAN!

Do you need some F.U.C.K.I.N.G new contacts?

This is why I'm not afraid of the Rubio trade. I can understand Detroit holding out for something better. The 2017 Draft is stocked with good PG's and maybe Detroit will use Jackson to move up in the lottery. But Reggie Jackson has to go man! That experiment is over and done with!

[BallinD]

If things don't turn quickly there will be a lot of panic junkies fosho and the way we are trending, we could get a high pick tho... Is it just me, or is Stan turning into a Dumars...maybe fond of Krispy Kremes, plays favorites, talks out of both sides of his mouth, afraid to make the hard choices???

BTW, why doesn't SVG STFU about Politics/Trump and focus on coaching! Stupid Van Gundy...

Believe it or not Pistons fans don't panic. It's not time to blow this team up. Believe it or not, this group of guys can actually become good one day.
Change is not panic, contrary to what so many believe.  The trade deadline is approaching and we are way underachieving, like 5 games below playing .500 ball.

1. Andre Drummonds has to figure out on his own that becoming A great defender will put him into the hall of fame conversation. Do you want to be great or Dwight Howard part 2?  5 years is plenty of time to have come to that conclusion.

2. No veteran leadership. ZERO!. This group is young, talented, and immature as hell. No vet who can show these guys how to be professional day in and day out. Somebody to show these guys how to come to work with they lunch boxes ready to push through.  Bingo.  That requires a trade.

3. Lack of A true leader at the PG position or point forward position. The Pistons need A Dam Lillard, Mike Conley, Chris Paul, Lebron James, type of leader. The Pistons need A Super High basketball IQ guy who can lead men into battle. Who guys really respect. A Chauncey Billups type of guy. True That!

5. Start Stanley Johnson. It's time.  Not so fast. he's not the best at any position we can't gift it to him.  His work ethic and coachability have already proven to be questionable.  Don't make it worse.

@Cool Breeze.  I know you watched that Miami Game.  Did you not see we closed to within 2 points under Ish in the 4th quarter and appeared to be playing hard, and the right way, until RJax came back in with 7 minutes left and everything swung downhill and the game swung to a 13 point loss!!

@Phil.  If we could get a KG fired up type of former player to help Dre...Wow.  Aaron Gray is the big man coach?? Wow!!  IMO we really need a veteran to get in his ass and get on the floor tho.

[Oracle]

But you only seem to use it when it helps out your favorites. BTW, it's alright to have favorites, but if you favor them over what's good for the team, that's when problems generally come up.

Here's the cardinal rule: Players do NOT play themselves!

You can notice that a player is playing too many minutes and for the wrong reasons, but it's the coach that does this, so focusing your ire on the player is blaming the wrong person!

Friendly reminder...

[Oracle]

When you get a chance, read this article. If the self proclaimed BEST player in his draft is the answer, I'm really afraid to hear the question  

A Reggie-Ish backcourt makes both guys worse

According to NBAWowy, when Reggie and Ish share the backcourt, teams have a 63.2 true shooting percentage, shoot a scorching 47.4 percent (!) from three, and the Pistons give up 113 points per 100 possessions. Conversely, the Pistons shoot 31.6 percent from three and score 105 points per 100 possessions when they share the court.

Granted, that is in a limited sample size (they’ve only shared the court for 31 minutes this season), but that small sample SUCKS.

Offensively, both guys need the ball in their hands to be most effective. Ish’s lack of perimeter spacing clogs driving lanes for Reggie, and Reggie’s proclivity to slow down the offense cuts into Ish’s transition opportunities. Defensively, neither guy can stop dribble penetration, nor cover for the other guy. Put simply, both guys basically need to play next to Kentavious Caldwell-Pope to be at their best.

With these concepts in mind, we can make a few rules for the 10-man Pistons rotation SVG should adopt:

• Current starters (Reggie/KCP/Marcus/Jon/Andre) start
  
  
• No one should play more than 36 minutes
  
  
• Stanley should never play SG
  
  
• If Tobias is up against starters, he should be at the 3, not the 4
  
  
• Reggie and Ish shouldn’t be on the court together
  
  
• No one should play more than 12 straight minutes without a quarter break
  
  

[cool breeze]

While Ish Smith set the tone which got our Pistons into playing aimless street pick up type basketball when he directed the team in the 3rd and 4th quarters, Andre Drummond took the baton from Ish showing that he is still not ready to play in crunch time. Andre once again forgot to box out two times in a row allowing put backs by Whiteside which expanded Miami's lead to 9 points. Whiteside also had a wide open look directly under the basket that bounced off the back of the rim. Drummond had his back to Whiteside at the time. Drummond also attempted another low percentage off balance baseline shot he had no business shooting. Did he ever look back to see Harris wide open at the free throw line? Then Drummond missed to critical free throws.

I see that a lot of fans have blamed this loss on Reggie Jackson. I disagree with that analysis. Reggie actually played a good ball game on both ends. He was a dead eye shooter in the first half and played much better than Pope. When he guarded Dragic. At the 4:41 minute mark of the 4th quarter Dragic missed a 3 point shot and Waiter got a long rebound. The ball was then reversed back to Dragic who passed the ball to Pope's man, Ellington who was standing on the baseline beyond the 3 point line. So do any of you recall what Pope did at that point in time????????? Any coaches nightmare is when one of his players runs out full blast while playing defense and then goes for a fake BEFORE THE GUY WITH THE BALL HAS USED HIS DRIBBLE. Once again this proves that KCP has a low basketball IQ. He takes a few steps and lounges out of bounds Ellenton waits and takes his dribble moving a few steps and drills a 3 pointer. There is no way that Pope's teammate Harris can get in position to take away Ellenton's space. That kicks the score back to a 9 point lead. So does the owner really believe what he said last week that he thinks Pope is a max type player who is worth 20m??? If this owner signs Pope to a long team max contract the franchise will be stuck in the mud for many years to come. This is another Stuckey type of situation. Pope has received more playing time since he arrived than any player I can ever recall since Zeke played. Zeke earned his minutes. He had a high basketball IQ right from the get go. Pope is still making mindless decisions on both ends of the floor. Reggie Jackson has some real basketball skills unlike Pope. He can turn himself into a smart defender and I believe he is trying at least to improve. Reggie just needs to get more in the mode of trusting his teammates more on offense and get the half court offense clicking. He needs a high grade 2 guard playing with him as well as a smarter center.

The Pistons are still very young and too many players are not fundamentally sound. There is hope but not this season. Therefore, I am on board for this team to start experimenting with the young players like Johnson and our first round pick Henry E. Move higher in the lottery and finally get a All Star type player. It is not too late to have a chance for a top 4 pick. And if the Pistons could manage to unload Pope for a pick that would be really smart.

[cool breeze]

How many minutes should Pope have played against Miami based on his defensive alone? ZERO should be any objective observers answer. This is Pope's contract season where he should be the most prepared to show off his ability to stand out playing the important 2 guard position in Stan Van Gundy's offense. Last night he was flat footed allowing dribble penetration all night long. He helped a teammate one time on an opponent's drive from the baseline that resulted in a steal by Pope. That was it for positives. He forced too many shot attempts when he was involved in the offense. Pope gets an overall grade of (F).

Smith is a horrible point guard on NBA standards. He can't guard anyone in the league. But his performance coming in at the end of the 3rd quarter has to be something Stan Van Gundy will remember. But then I have said that to myself many times in previous games so perhaps whatever Smith does to screw up the works will be tolerated by Stan Van Gundy. With around 2 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter, Smith, Johnson and Baynes enter the game. Miami is shooting 2 free throws and both shots were made to tie the score. On the first possession after the free throws, Smith dribbles down the court and forces his way into the paint and shoots a wild impossible shot that somehow goes in the basket. counting all of the Piston possessions that took place from that point on and into the 4th quarter that Smith was running the offense, I counted 15 possessions the Pistons had. Out of those possessions it was something like 8 possessions where nobody touched the basketball in the half court offense but Smith. He drove and missed, drove and missed etc. On the possessions he did pass the basketball, it he only passed the basketball to Harris after he penetrated a bit and threw the ball back to Harris around the free throw line. There were no passes to the wing. Smith never gave up the ball early in the shot clock and then ran to the baseline without the basketball so the team could run some of their set plays. This was a display of the most mindless simpleton offensive basketball a coach could ever witness. That was th key problem that se the tone for the remainder of the basketball game. My question is who in hell can play effectively if Ish Smith is running the offense? A point guard is supposed to make his players better. Smith plays as if he only has one other teammate. Smith did try to get the basketball into Baynes but the pass was way off target. There are other options for all NBA teams to run so it is not necessary for the point guard to be directly involved in every damn play. After that first wild out of control shot that went in, Smith then shot the basketball without passing 3 more times in a row. After Smith shot the ball and missed on this 3rd straight ball hogging possession in a row, any sane coach should have removed him from the game. But that didn't happen once again. Smith can do no wrong in the eyes of Stan Van Gundy. Is the coach telling him to play that way????? Smith gets the Worst Piston Player Award by a wide margin for his contributions in this game.

Baynes played a horrible game. He was upset with al the pushing when the Pistons were on offense. i get that but Baynes really let his team down when he was on the defensive end. As Greg Kelser said, the center (Baynes) must step up and stop dribble penetration when the opposing driver gets around the guard or small forward after a high screen is set. Baynes never reacted and actually backed deeper into the paint which allowed Dragic to shoot that 4 foot jump shot over and over. When Baynes decides to show up and play with passion on defense, Detroit is a much better team. But he seems to have lost his mojo and looks extremely soft on the defensive end of the floor. Baynes gets a D- grade for this game.

Morris should be mentioned relating to his defensive performance as well. Morris couldn't stop anyone he guarded for most of the game. However, he had a outstanding offensive performance in the first half and through the 3rd quarter. Morris is 6 feet 9 inches tall and is playing against small forwards on defensive. Much of the time in this game, the action between the Piston centers and Morris was not good on the defensive end. Can any of the Piston center play effective pick and roll defense? I am not blaming Morris in any way for his defense. I think the problem relating to the high amount of opponent scoring coming from Detroit's feeble attempts to defend the pick and roll plays is the fault of Drummond and Baynes. There appears to be no communication prodded by the Piston center when the high screen is about to be set. And when an opponent penetrates closer to the basket, this Piston team has no paint protector. It is as if the center has disappeared when he is needed the most.

Is Stan Van Gundy a horrible coach? He has never been known as a horrible coach. The only conclusion I can come up with as to how this team flounders making the same type of mistakes over and over has to be that it is the other role that Stan Van Gundy is performing at that might be the problem. He has selected too many free agents or made trades bringing in way too many players who have extremely low basketball IQs. They are unable to learn how to play the right way. Too many players were removed from other teams because they performed badly on defense. Lack of ability to react to basic situations on offense and defense by skill players remains a big problem. Will Bynum is a genius compared to Ish Smith when thinking about running a team from the point guard position. And we all know how that experiment turned out with Will Bynum who was also a one man show type point guard who couldn't defend. You can't have a point guard who has two big flaws ( lack of leadership ability at point guard) and ( inept defensive ability) coming into a game at the end of the 3rd quarter and then continuing to set the course of the game in the 4th quarter. Opposing teams allow Smith to over penetrate. They love it when he does that and they give him a little opening to motivate Smith to take the bait. And he keeps on doing it apparently with the coaches permission. Meanwhile, the coach has a mentally stable and smart point guard sitting on the bench in Beno.

One final observation I had in this game involved the first half. Stanley Johnson came into the game and played for around 4 minutes. In that time he scored 7 points without missing a shot which makes at least 4 or 5 games in a row where he hadn't missed a shot attempt. Also, Johnson played really good help defense and never allowed his assigned man to get into the paint with dribble penetration. During the time Johnson was playing there were two timeouts. The first timeout, I noticed that Stan Van Gundy said something to Johnson when he came to the bench. I am not sure if SVG was giving Johnson a tip on what he wanted from him or if it was some critical comment. Johnson responded acknowledging what his coach had said. Then about one minute later another time out was called and Johnson, Baynes and Smith were removed from the game. At that time, one of the assistant coaches took Johnson aside and was appearing to be critical of his play. Johnson responded politely as he did after Van Gundy's comments. That is Stanley Johnson sports fans. He is going through a really tough time where the coaches are picking him apart and yet his confidence stays intact. The coaches must know that fact and have a lot of hope for the future of Stanley Johnson. I watch Johnson close when he plays and couldn't see where he really made any mistakes but I do not know what the game plan was for this game so maybe he wasn't doing everything right. My point of telling you fans about this observation is this simple thing. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER WITNESSED ANY OF THE COACHES INCLUDING STAN VAN GUNDY SAY ONE CRITICAL THING ABOUT THE FOLLOWING PLAYERS WHEN THEY COME BACK TO THE BENCH SHORTLY AFTER A TIME OUT IS CALLED? POPE, DRUMMOND, MORRIS, JACKSON, SMITH, BAYNES ALL HAVE THE COACHES FREE PASS. THE COACHES ARE AFRAID TO CONFRONT THOSE PLAYERS. HAVE ANY OF YOU FANS EVER BEEN IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU ARE A PLAYER SITTING ON THE BENCH WATCHING GUYS PLAYING AHEAD OF YOU WHO ARE STINKING UP THINGS BIG TIME AND THE COACH PACES AND WALKS AROUND TURNING TO THE GUYS ON THE BENCH AND VENTING TO THEM AS IF THOSE PLAYERS WHO ARE ON THE BENCH ARE MAKING THE MISTAKES OF THEIR TEAMMATES WHO ARE ACTUALLY PLAYING? I SEE STAN VAN GUNDY DOING THIS EXACT THING. Even at the high school level some coaches are afraid to offend certain players maybe thinking that their confidence will get even worse. If you are one of the guys on the bench, you become very cynical and believe your coach is a coward. In this situation where Van Gundy and his assistant coaches are in charge, it is clear that the coaches can vent to guys like Johnson knowing he can take it and will become a better player for it. The other players are too sensitive and might call their agents which will mean another phone call that Stan Van Gundy will have to take. Just how much power do these pointed shoe players agents really have these days? I wouldn't take any crap from Pope's agent. Who in hell is going to give Pope more than 10 million a year except this Piston owner? I think this team would be a lot better if they replaced Pope and got at least a draft pick for him.

The time has come to bring in Beno and sit Smith. everyone knows this is true but the coach.

[Phil-Good]

This is what I mean when I say the Pistons have A lack of leadership.

[Phil-Good]

I know A bunch of us Pistons fans are disappointed with the performance of this team this season. I am as well but I'm not shocked or surprised by what I'm seeing. Believe it or not Pistons fans don't panic. It's not time to blow this team up. Believe it or not, this group of guys can actually become good one day.

The Pistons 5 problems.

1. Andre Drummonds has to figure out on his own that becoming A great defender will put him into the hall of fame conversation. Do you want to be great or Dwight Howard part 2?

2. The drafted home grown talent has been A let down. The Pistons need more out of Stanley,Ellinson, Michael Gbinije, Darrun Hilliard. The Pistons need A home run in the DRAFT! It's life or death and right now it's death for the Pistons.

3. No veteran leadership. ZERO!. This group is young, talented, and immature as hell. No vet who can show these guys how to be professional day in and day out. Somebody to show these guys how to come to work with they lunch boxes ready to push through.

4. Lack of A true leader at the PG position or point forward position. The Pistons need A Dam Lillard, Mike Conley, Chris Paul, Lebron James, type of leader. The Pistons need A Super High basketball IQ guy who can lead men into battle. Who guys really respect. A Chauncey Billups type of guy.

5. Start Stanley Johnson. It's time.

[WTF]

If these guys have tuned out the coach then we have bigger problems and I;m starting to question if any of these players worth keeping and perhap we do need to blow it up.

If this were to be the case don't you think what nerves these clowns most have to think they know more than the coach and whats best for the team. These are accomplished players, this isn't Big Ben, Tayshuan, Rip and Rip revolting against Curry and Kuester, this is a seasoned coach that been to the Finals twice and numerous playoffs games being tuned out by players that haven't in no way accomplished crap. Really WTF!

Reggie doesn't know what being a star player is all about and I say again this dumb ass need to be deep into the archives digging up film of Bing, Zeke, and Chauncy. Like I said he wants to be like Westbrook and Harden and he's far from it talent wise hell he not even a Walls, Teague or Thomas. How dumb he must feel knowing his team mates prefer Ish.

Sadly if that is the case then Reggie is certainly playing for his next team and not his current one pending trade rumors and the team unhappiness with him. I can see Reggie tuning out SVG lets hope it stop there and none of this other clowns are feeling privledge. They can't be reading their press clippings and feeling good about themselves.

[BallinD]

They tuned the coach out.
And don't get me started on the coach.

Ish plays great BENCHED
Tobias plays great BENCHED
Boban plays great BENCHED

KCP stinks up the joint? Here have more minutes.
Reggie refuses to pass to teammates? Take the keys to the city brah.
Baynes forgets how to play basketball. Want more minutes and a starting PF position?
SMH

Great observations KaySlay, DX, WTF, Sparma, Oracle. You all should be assistant coaches.
 
This BS works because SVG is able to spin his narratives:

Each of the narratives of "Spin" spun by SVG are designed to keep reporters asking the wrong question and the players confused.  How's that working for you Stan??

@Oracle: He would have to do something very uncomfortable?? Like sacrifice sacred cows and admit your scheme isn't working cause the team has outgrown the Reggie Show.

Narrative: We can't stop anybody on the perimeter: How about get a real floor general in there, push the ball, let the players have fun, get some touches, move the ball around the perimeter (It's a concept, you should try it) maybe they'll defend if they are motivated (minus Reggie), as in during the Ish era.  Nope: says SVG: Go down and watch the Reggie Show and then defend your ass off fool.  How's that working for you Stan??

Narrative: So the Bench got crushed... Really? Because they got outscored by 11? The Heat bench @100 minutes, Pistons bench @77 minutes. Could 23 extra minutes have anything to do with the scoring discrepancy?  Pulling random misleading stats out your ass to keep attention off your screwy rotations, riding the cold hand, bringing players back from injury and throwing them into the fire, (Reggie,KCP).  How's that working for you Stan??

Tuned Out: I wonder why??  I don't think they have quit as much as they are handcuffed (Reggie has the ball, what can you do) and confused...I should be playing better defense, but I just can't make it happen.  It's my fault, right Stan, has nothing to do with Reggie and Dre or your shenanigans.

[KaySlay]

@DX you answered your own question. They tuned the coach out.

They were having fun with Ish at the point and you could tell by watching the games. The Pistons were fun to watch because they were having fun. Moving the ball, everyone involved in the offense. Being involved on offense, they gave a damn and put in work on defense. Now? Even when we win, I don't see the same excitement from the team. They are no longer fun to watch because they aren't having fun. Part of that is due to losing, but then again we are loosing due to a selfish player to begin with.

And don't get me started on the coach.

Ish plays great BENCHED
Tobias plays great BENCHED
Boban plays great BENCHED

KCP stinks up the joint? Here have more minutes.
Reggie refuses to pass to teammates? Take the keys to the city brah.
Baynes forgets how to play basketball. Want more minutes and a starting PF position?

SMH

@Oracle
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[Oracle]

KaySlay, your saving grace is that you have a sense of humor , but there is something you did that was exceptionally good.

You collected the relevant posts on the subject of Reggie to shine a light on the freaking Dinosaur in the room! IMO, Reggie wants to be the star and savior at the expense of the TEAM, and SVG keeps letting this happen!

This is, IMO, the best post you've had here!

@Ballin - SVG must be getting his news flashes by snail mail, or he's just pulling the wrong stuff out of his ass! While I consider everybody on this forum as well above average knowledge about basketball, we aren't supposed to be smarter than the professionals. IMO, SVG doesn't see because he doesn't want to see, because he would have to do something very uncomfortable.

@Wise - That Pick & Roll is deadly, but it's useless if it's the only play you run! Matter of fact, Reggie can't seem to run it right at all this year, but Ish did a GREAT job at it. he did it because he mixed in so many of our other options that defenses didn't know what was coming, and therefore never knew what hit them... all of that is GONE WITH THE WIND.. apologies to Scarlett O'Hara!

@DX - You're not wrong, Reggie as much as said he has to tune SVG out, and I guarantee you he isn't the only one! I also believe that the players want and prefer Ish running the team, hell, move Reggie to starting SG and KCP off the bench, or Reggie as backup SG, I don't give a crap, but I'd prefer Ish as our starting PG until somebody plays well enough to take his job!

Amazing that we all see this and nothing gets done by SVG!!!

[deusXango]

The TEAM has tuned SVG out! My reasons for saying this is simple; he took away their free-wheeling offense (where they were having fun, jelling, and beginning to win on a regular basis) and replaced it with a showboating, okay, PG that wasn't capable of winning like they were, so they stopped busting their collective asses on this vaunted defense he was always bumping his gums about. Tune out.

These are professionals and each one has his pride in that fact; when a called players only meeting, that had absolutely nothing to do with rebellion against the coach, coaching staff, or organization is publically ripped in the mass media by a non-player (their coach) it bruises that pride and disrespects their rights as a TEAM that's trying to win. Tune out!

Players that supported allowing Ish Smith to continue starting and promoted ball movement until Reggie Jackson could work his way back into game/starter shape were marked as being selfish, or in Tobias Harris's case, benched; the teams leading scorer was benched because he mentioned the lack of "touches" for everyone. 4 out of the 5 starters could average what Jackson is and do so without being ball dominate. Tune out!!

Okay, I'm tripping but, will someone bring me back down to earth by explaining how we went from a #2 defense to #28?

[cool breeze]

Who was the worst defender in the first quarter Piston fans? For those of you who watched, did you see Waiters go around Pope at least 4 times in a row in the opening minutes? Then the coach switched Pope off Waiters and onto the Heat point guard. Did you see what happened then Piston fans? Every time the point guard handled the basketball, he easily penetrated into the paint and either had an open look or make a pass for a easy basket to a teammate. So after a few minutes where Pope was manhandled by the point guard, the coach switched him onto another player who was the 5th option in the Heat offense. Pope was moving. He wasn't just standing around. But Pope was guessing which way his man might be going instead of looking at the stomach of his assigned man, bending his legs so he is close to the floor while moving his feet so he could react quickly so he could stay in front of his man. But Pope gambled every time he played defense. In the first quarter of this game, Stan Van Gundy never took Pope out of the game. After a week of practice where one would suspect the coaches would be busy teaching the players to stop dribble penetration, their 20 million dollar a year soon to be player failed in every aspect of playing team defense. I am so tired of all this nonsense about Pope's skills on the defensive end. He is not a smart player. But it doesn't matter how dumb he plays, His coach has his back. SVG doesn't want to piss off Pope's agent. When will this coach do the right thing? He should have taken Pope out after the first three minutes of this game and replaced him with Bullock or Johnson. True to form, the only players who face consequences for their mistakes are Bullock and Johnson. Van Gundy plays the contracts to the max. Why even show up if you coach like that?

I didn't have a chance to watch the game last night and just finishing the first quarter of this game. Drummond played hard in this quarter. When Jackson quickly brings the ball up the court and makes his first pass to Drummond and then sprints to the baseline corner, the half court offense looks good and Reggie can get the ball back and he knocked down his shots. If Reggie can improve his defense, he could be the starting 2 guard. The Pistons could trade Pope and bring in another point guard. I can't believe that this organization would agree to sign Pope for anything more than 9 million a year at most. If any of you still have the game recorded, just watch Pope in action on defense in the first quarter. I was shocked and i am one person who has never bought into the hype that KCP is even an average quality defender in the NBA compared to other starters.

[KaySlay]

I rewatched the last 7.5 minutes of the game and the Reggie effect was clear as day.

I'll repeat myself, Ish Smith is not a better player than Reggie Jackson, but he means more to a team like this than Reggie does. This is a team without a star so it must rely on sound team play in order to be competitive.

It is infuriating watching him be selfish and clueless out there. Even more infuriating is watching the other Pistons just standing around waiting for something to happen. Commentators said the defense stalled at the end of the game. No Reggie killed our offense!

How sad is it to be a One Trick Pony as a head coach this a pathetic response no wonder why the team has a leadership problem. Appropriate response should I don't know waht to do I only have 1 play P&R and the rest is all ISO and a bunch of 3.

I laughed reading this. At what point does Gores pull out the microscope and diagnose the true issue with his Pistons.

He was 1-6 in the first six possessions after he returned to the lineup to replace Ish, who had helped whittle the lead down to 3-pt lead at about the 7 minute mark. He missed six shots (possessions) in a row each time dribbling down the court without passing the ball to anyone else on the team.  Six posessions in a row when you are supposed to be making your run.

I am so glad you brought this up. Reggie killed us. I could not believe my eyes. Tobias couldn't touch the ball despite shooting 63%. Andre couldn't touch the ball beside getting Reggie's offensive rebounds. It was the Reggie show and he forced his teammates to stand and watch.

BTW Clueless, what flavor of doom and gloom Kool Aid would you recommend?

More of a IPA guy.

[BallinD]

SVG, AKA Stupid Van Gundy is worried?  More like Fired if he wasn't his own Boss. Bumping his gums that now (at this late date) he thinks we might??? need more variety in the O, a different Scheme, perhaps those mean NBA teams hacked his Dbase and figured out the vaunted SVG P&R. 

Where is the clueless media who suck up all his "we couldn't guard anybody" drivel.  You gotta be kidding me.  Nobody can call it what it is???  

And some here want to tinker around the edges. Or wait and see??  See what? See if lightning can be bottled this year like last year's run? That's fine.  WTF called it Homerism.  A cold dose of continued losing is the cure for that!  We're an improved team, right?(hint: we don't play like a TEAM).  Somebody in the locker room need to slap Reggie & SVG.  The Fish Rots From The Head!

Link: SVG Worried About P&R

[Oracle]

Hey delusional, make up your mind, does a homer see only good or does a homer see mostly bad?

Man, either you can't read or you're totally clueless (or both);

BTW Clueless, what flavor of doom and gloom Kool Aid would you recommend?

Also, on what planet do you mostly dwell... Planet Schizo? I'm still trying to figure this one out

@BallinD Screw meaningless trades and pointless lineup changes. Let's get a player that has a spark. Oh wait we had a spark. SVG put that chit out on December 4th...

WHAT? Forget trades and then in the next sentence requesting a trade???

Holy sh!t


I'm sick of your name calling, and before you complain that I called YOU a name, I didn't, I called you what you called yourself... more than once!

Point taken.

I wish I could drink as much Kool Aid as you....

All that counts is how well you're playing, and we have plenty to complain about on that score.

IMO, the reason keeps pointing back to one person... SVG!

But I do agree that SVG is the one holding us back, coaching sets the ceiling. REMEMBER?  Reggie is a solid number 2. SVG inserted him back into the lineup with 7.5 minutes to go. What did our PG do? Dribble and pass to NO ONE, well unless he was out of options and about to turn it over. Shot blocked by Whiteside. Turnovers, ISO and bad shot selection. It went from a 3 point game to a 13 point loss. All the other Pistons could do is watch Reggie lose the game.

Thanks SVG. Thanks Reggie.

[BallinD]

Post Game Quotes Pistons.com

SVG on Reggie Jackson:


“Down the stretch we’ve tried to go to him (Reggie Jackson) and that was a good thing. Reggie had a good offensive game, 3 assists, 2 turnovers, but he shot the ball well. We’re just not creating enough open shots for each other. ”

A good thing????????!!!!??? What planet is he on?

[BallinD]

2. SVG inserted him (Reggie) back into the lineup with 7.5 minutes to go. What did our PG do? Dribble and pass to NO ONE, well unless he was out of options and about to turn it over.  

He was 1-6 in the first six possessions after he returned to the lineup to replace Ish, who had helped whittle the lead down to 3-pt lead at about the 7 minute mark. He missed six shots (possessions) in a row each time dribbling down the court without passing the ball to anyone else on the team.  Six posessions in a row when you are supposed to be making your run.  

It ended when Reggie Shot was blocked by Whiteside. Turnovers, ISO and bad shot selection. It went from a 3 point game to a 13 point loss. All the other Pistons could do is watch Reggie lose the game.

Thanks SVG. Thanks Reggie.

Please, can we trade him now SVG...yes, for Rubio please, or let Ish finish out the season with Beno.  What's funny is no one talks about this aspect of things.  It's always the defense, so that's the end of the story,

but how we finish games when they are on the line and Reggie is busy shooting us in the foot never makes it into the conversation as if that is no more important time than any other.  Oh, but it is.  It shows his true colors under pressure. This year he doesn't have what he had last year and can't admit it to himself.  I'd much rather see Ish finish out the games.

WTF: On SVG:I only have 1 play P&R and the rest is all ISO and a bunch of 3's.. But we digress.  Let's return to your regularly scheduled programming. SVG on cue:  "We couldn't guard anybody.  We just couldn't.  I can't figure out why the P&R isn't working like it should?"


DX: I really like that idea of Leuer backing up Dre.  One more passer and he finishes just as well as Baynes, just a little light in the pants, but he could creep around the perimeter a bit and cut to the basket.  I bet Ish could find him.

[deusXango]

Problem is everybody wants to judge this year's team by last years run and last year's place in the standings.  So there is that hope. But we are learning that somehow this year's more talent, is somehow less production.  There is time to right the ship, but that time is now.

I'm so glad BallinD stepped up and spoke on the bullsh!t that has been one of the major excuses for underperforming this year! Last year was last year and doesn't have a damn thing to do with where we finish this year, and to go a step further, with the upgrade in talent this year and more familiarity, less than a 50 win season is a legitimate disappointment/failure.

Dump on Drummond because of his contract (jealousy?) all you want, but to say he's reached his ceiling at 23 is ludicrous. Look at who's coaching him; Aaron F#ckin' Gray! SVG got rid of Sheed in favor of bringing in Gray to coach his franchise big man. WOW! He's the big man (who enjoyed an undistinguished career) SVG signed that couldn't suit up and now he's still getting paid out of the Pistons kitty! If one wants to talk about wasted money, talk about that and F#ckin' Jodie Meeks! I don't buy into the argument of him being in the league for 5 years and doing nothing because during that time he's re-written the record book for board work in Detroit.....Laimbeer, Rodman, "Big Ben," Lanier, and the list goes on, absent a Moose, did great board work. Yes, Andre's been in the NBA for 5 years but, they've been a hellacious 5 years, and yet he keeps his head and don't act a damn fool. Teach him and bring on a qualified teacher, which Van Gundy is not and he hasn't enjoyed on a consistent basis. Refine his game around what he does best and let him play. I'm not comparing Drummond to Howard or Shaq but, Howard couldn't stand being SVG's whipping boy any longer and Shaq wasn't going to take that "good old boy" political bullshit so Riley and Mickey Aronson fired his ass. How quickly we forget.

I'll repeat myself, Ish Smith is not a better player than Reggie Jackson, but he means more to a team like this than Reggie does. This is a team without a star so it must rely on sound team play in order to be competitive; we were competitive with Smith, who ain't all that (certainly not a hero) but we're pulling for Reggie to re-capture the magic of last year; ain't gonna happen, if for no other reason, the team has gotten a taste of what's possible with ball movement vs. P & R exclusively, when Reggie feels like it of course. Ish did what a sound backup should do, he came into a totally new situation, learned the plays and players, and handed over a +.500 team to Jackson, when SVG placed him in the starting lineup. Where are we now? How and why did our stellar defense suddenly go to sh!t? What year was that "players only" meeting held" This year?! My bad. How many games into Reggie's return was the players meeting held and why was SVG so b!tchy about it? After last nights ass whooping, I know we can't offer up a decent package for Dragic, but we'd be foolish not to jump on Rubio, if that's doable. It ain't about Rubio being a better scorer than Jackson, he's Ish Smith on steroids, and that's the boost this team needs before it's too late.

Here's an idle thought, play Leuer in some backup minutes behind Drummond instead of Baynes; I'd love to see Morris, Harris, and Leuer on the floor together at some point.

SVG complains about back-to-backs, now he's complaining about having too much time off; neither one has anything to do with a teams performance....there are too many top tier teams that play the same schedule.

[WTF]

SVG say's he doesn't know whats wrong that the Reggie P&R isn't as productive as last season. RED FLAG!

How sad is it to be a One Trick Pony as a head coach this a pathetic response no wonder why the team has a leadership problem. Appropriate response should I don't know waht to do I only have 1 play P&R and the rest is all ISO and a bunch of 3's.

Reggie aka Red Alert:
Pope aka SOS:
Andre aka Retreat:
Morris aka Mayday Mayday:
Harris aka Help:
Ish aka Surrender:
Leuer aka Man Down:
Stankey aka No Mas:

These names need to be on the back of their jersey in the 4th.

[BallinD]

Spoelstras team brought the heat when it counted. We could not. Our current course is impractical.. More of the same is not always better. Our coach is befuddled. Reggie can only do what Reggie gonna do. The fish rots from the head. SVG-RJax

Problem is everybody wants to judge this year's team by last years run and last year's place in the standings. So there is that hope. But we are learning that somehow this year's more talent, is somehow less production. There is time to right the ship, but that time is now.

Somehow, the old metaphor must come true. The light bulb is gonna have to turn on.

[KaySlay]

Point taken.

I wish I could drink as much Kool Aid as you....

All that counts is how well you're playing, and we have plenty to complain about on that score.

IMO, the reason keeps pointing back to one person... SVG!

But I do agree that SVG is the one holding us back, coaching sets the ceiling. REMEMBER? Reggie is a solid number 2. SVG inserted him back into the lineup with 7.5 minutes to go. What did our PG do? Dribble and pass to NO ONE, well unless he was out of options and about to turn it over. Shot blocked by Whiteside. Turnovers, ISO and bad shot selection. It went from a 3 point game to a 13 point loss. All the other Pistons could do is watch Reggie lose the game.

Thanks SVG. Thanks Reggie.

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