Wise & Stuff

[Oracle]

Gentlemen,

Please I beg of you to just stop it now!  Stop before I find you all and poke your eyeballs out please don't continue this there might be great signs of potential.   If Boban was the next great thing he might still be where we found him and while I certainly show a tiny bit of potential of Ellensen coming out of college I don't think we should be too happy with what we think we're seeing.

We need to be looking at pieces that works right now today not what might happen the next 2 or 3 seasons, not the by the end of next season.  This team needs to be built to win now not later enough already My Lil Dreamers just stop before I poke your eyeballs out

I'm shocked to hear you say these things.

1. Boban is making the case to be a backup center and you don't think he's good enough for that? You think our current slow, can't jump backup center is better?

2. Ellenson is looking to become the next Stanley Johnson and get limited minutes in the rotation to get developed in 2 years, and we shouldn't be excited about that???

And what does any of this have to do with what we need in the 1-7 positions that will determine how well we do?

How in the world do you expect to develop anybody, should we just stop drafting players?

Obviously I must be missing something, I don't think you mean this the way it appears.

Stuff:
I caught the end of the Cavs/Hawks game on NBA TV, and it was a barn burner, and a great game from our own Tim Hardaway Jr, which made this proud Michigan fan a happy camper! Cavs blow a 25+ point lead in the 4th with Love making a huge turnover... Love it

[WTF]

Gentlemen,

Please I beg of you to just stop it now! Stop before I find you all and poke your eyeballs out please don't continue this there might be great signs of potential. If Boban was the next great thing he might still be where we found him and while I certainly show a tiny bit of potential of Ellensen coming out of college I don't think we should be too happy with what we think we're seeing.

We need to be looking at pieces that works right now today not what might happen the next 2 or 3 seasons, not the by the end of next season. This team needs to be built to win now not later enough already My Lil Dreamers just stop before I poke your eyeballs out

[Oracle]

Boban & Ellenson sure looked good!!!

Now their performance could be laughed off if this was a bottom feeder team at home, but this was Houston, playing their top guys full minutes and on the effing road, where rookies and role players generally fall apart!

@DX, yes, we've seen this movie before, Ish & Beno know how to involve the whole team, and it works wonders.

@Ballin, I too have been screaming to play Boban, the guy is a major mismatch most nights, and the old saying is true... you can't teach size!!!

It's increasingly obvious that the issues with this team have more to do with the management of talent than the talent itself.

We may all need to pitch in and get SVG a mirror so that he can do some deep reflecting, "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves..."

[deusXango]

Rust, weak, and inexperienced, does anyone other than myself, think Henry Ellenson outplayed Jon Leuer, for one game at least? Boban and Henry posting double-doubles against Houston is like undiscovered gold. There'll be reasons why it was so easy for them to do it, all while we continue to scratch our heads over how we could loose so badly to lesser teams, as Boban sat the bench and Henry toiled in the D-League.

Oh, what percentage of our made 3's did Tobias make? What was his overall shooting percentage? Stubborn ass ego!

The real addition through subtraction; I believe I liked Ish and Beno as our PG's much better than, "what's his name." Ball didn't stick and everybody got an assist....that's team play.

[BallinD]

Why why why does/did Stan hate Boban so much?  Is it because he is tall and slim and SVG is short and fat?  Those of us who wanted to see more Boban all year are shaking our heads.

[BallinD]

This offseason promises to be one for the ages, though it appears the team is hamstrung by salary cap and has little wiggle room, I think it is "think out of the box" time for Van Bower.  

DX, I think even SVG is not stupid enough to continue to mistreat Tobias.  He needs to shoot 1,000 threes a day over the offseason to become the beast we need.  

Oracle, I agree that we could "break out" next year...I hate to keep saying next year, but it is what it is.  So many variables and so little time to parse them, what with KCP, SJ, Weggie and Dre all potential addition by subtraction candidates.  I Hope we keep Beno, Morris, Harris, Ish... moving forward.

Just seems to me like SVG will try and double down on this season and treat it as a fluke, instead of a sign that he needs to step his game up in many ways, rotation, drafting, offensive execution, get a rim protector in here... I wanted Noel, but Dallas snatched him up.  Without a shakeup, or great luck in the draft, the pipe dream that this (core) team will someday compete for ECF is just that.  SVG will  be going into his fourth year, and if he doesn't produce next season he will be a lame duck and his era will be just a minor footnote in Pistons history.

[Oracle]

@DX, @Ballin, did you guys also notice the rise of the Bulls?

The day Wade left the team, all of a sudden Rondo became the old Rondo and Butler started blowing up and the Bulls are on a hot streak and in the playoffs.

Interesting how addition or subtraction can make a huge difference in teams.

[Oracle]

Sparma, this is a prime example of a talking head that's not thinking.

Of course what he says is true, but what are the dynamics behind those numbers. If you don't understand what's going on the stats will lead you down a blind alley.

In short stats are useless to people that have no ability to analyze the data properly. Here are some thoughts my untrained eye sees.

1. That wasn't the case in our run with Ish. We defended surprisingly well for a lineup with only ONE plus defender(KCP), Morris is about an even defender, but Harris & Drummond are negative defenders. Ish played amazingly well for his size, but there was a few other dynamics that were going on that made this possible.
         a. They possessed a potent offense initiated by Ish, but led by Harris & KCP.
         b. That offense kept everyone involved and active, and that kept Drummond involved and focused at all times, and scoring helps defense from a mental aspect.
         c. Big surprise, during that stretch they only loosly played the SVG 4 out 1 in style, SVG went with what worked.

2. Sadly, once you lose momentum, it's hard to get back, the combinations that made it happen are complex, but teams that STAY TOGETHER tend to be able to find their mojo a lot easier. However, that doesn't mean that we aren't missing that one ingredient that makes you into a killer team, think Sheed! Big men LOVE to play next to another big man that's really good. Drummond has the raw ability, but another big man next to him could drive both to the next level. It's not just competition, Cooperation + Competition = Cooperatition.

So my bottom line to that talking head is this: We have to be really smart here. A lot of people are making decisions based on conditions we can't trust.

Blow out games happen in the NBA all of the time, but do you look at that single game and make decisions on who stays and who goes? You may be able to glean a few things, but why these types of games happen are a complete mystery.

A season is not quite the same, but in a way you also don't generally make wholesale changes based on one season. Talking heads talk want, and maybe like to see the panic they can generate. I don't say disregard the information, but if I'm SVG, I'd look at the bigger picture. The Wizards did and their numbers were horrendous, but they didn't panic.

Rob Mahoney at si:

"Worst High-Usage Lineup: Detroit Pistons

Detroit’s original starting lineup of Andre Drummond, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Reggie Jackson, Tobias Harris, and Marcus Morris (-12.3 points per 100 possessions)

It is bewildering that a Pistons team with personnel so theoretically capable (and run by Stan Van Gundy) would be so consistently dreadful on defense. Swap out Harris for Jon Leuer (as the Pistons themselves did mid-season) and the results are nearly identical: a defense so porous as to allow its opponents on average to outperform the best offense in the league. Exchanges are botched with shocking regularity. Buffers are given to effective shooters and lanes surrendered that shouldn’t be. Van Gundy’s best defenses played a more conservative style that looked to slowly constrict opponents rather than apply frenetic pressure. Detroit keeps with that, only opponents slip easily from their grasp—so easily, in fact, that they out-shoot the Warriors (57.2% effective field goal percentage) against the Pistons’ starting five."

[Sparma]

Rob Mahoney at si:

"Worst High-Usage Lineup: Detroit Pistons

Detroit’s original starting lineup of Andre Drummond, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Reggie Jackson, Tobias Harris, and Marcus Morris (-12.3 points per 100 possessions)

It is bewildering that a Pistons team with personnel so theoretically capable (and run by Stan Van Gundy) would be so consistently dreadful on defense. Swap out Harris for Jon Leuer (as the Pistons themselves did mid-season) and the results are nearly identical: a defense so porous as to allow its opponents on average to outperform the best offense in the league. Exchanges are botched with shocking regularity. Buffers are given to effective shooters and lanes surrendered that shouldn’t be. Van Gundy’s best defenses played a more conservative style that looked to slowly constrict opponents rather than apply frenetic pressure. Detroit keeps with that, only opponents slip easily from their grasp—so easily, in fact, that they out-shoot the Warriors (57.2% effective field goal percentage) against the Pistons’ starting five."

[deusXango]

Golly, BallinD, you done hit the proverbial nail on the head!! Not only did you make me laugh, but you made me think at the same time. Some people will resent you if you make too much sense, but I ain't in that number, because I believe the truth will set you free. SVG has all but said he's not up for the task of guiding this team to the top, but he ain't going nowhere...money and power is one hell of a narcotic. Has anyone ever heard SVG talk about a championship under his watch? When "Zeke" came to town, as an untried rookie, he came to the podium talking about a championship in Detroit and he delivered! Where's this great coaches confidence?

Watching last nights game with the Hawks (yeah, with the none FT shooting Dwight Howard, who SVG couldn't coach, only alienate), I couldn't help but admire and notice the big difference between their coach, Mike Budenholzer, and ours; Paul Milsap, arguably their best player, who's returning from a knee injury after being out for 10 games, was being brought in off the bench! Budenholzer's reasoning is he wants his player to get his timing back and work his way back into game shape. After 10 games, not 21 games and an entire pre-season of being off, but our genius of a coach sees things differently. It was no laughing matter, but I thought, what irony...Atlanta is in the playoffs, in the spot we held when Reggie was suddenly reinstated into the starting lineup, and we've not approached that level of proficiency since and out of the playoffs! I wonder about our ineffective offense also; is it the P & R, or 1 in 4 out? Whatever the hell it was, it didn't focus on our most consistent and effective scorer, as a matter of fact, he was in effect demoted to make way for Reggie and Leuer. How about them apples? Jackson and Leuer were more important to this years campaign than Tobias Harris. Say it ain't so.

Here's a kick in the ass that no one's talking about; if we do get a top 3 pick in this years draft, will SVG know what to do with it? Who will he pare from the current roster and who will he keep? Who will be the off season FA signees? What trades will be made to make this team better? Wait. Do we think SVG can make this team better? Yeah, I can be colored disgruntled also!

[BallinD]

Captain Obvious looks up from the dead horse.  Now says he will look to the bench (Ellensen, Boban) for clues to how to navigate the upcoming long, sad summer.

SVG: "I probably should have done it earlier," Van Gundy said. "We're still in it, but hell, we've lost 10 of 12, so it's not like we're rolling with the other guys," he said before news that his dead horse had died.




"We probably should have been searching for alternatives before," SVG said.  Ya Think?



Here's hoping coach SVG (Stupid Van Gundy) hires an innovative assistant who knows something about how to design a play, and who will help the team out so that after every game there is not a mea culpa of "woulda, shoulda, coulda!" by the famous Mr. "1 in 4 out."  Here's especially hoping the coach fires himself.  But instead he will double down and go to war with Weggie and Andrea, the worst defensive tandem in the league, dollar-for-dollar, and the two worst team leaders dollar for dollar.

But that couldn't have affected our chemistry, could it??  Nor the mind-numbing blunders, stubborn refusals to recognize reality, or at least try something different??

Yaaaay. Color me disgruntled!

[Sparma]

We're eliminated, right? Can't quite see in the standings if tonight's games are included, but that should be it.

The team I'm worried about is Charlotte, just 1/2 a game up on us.

Plenty of time for Boban and Ellenson now, I gather. Don't think they're going to lead us to the promised land, but they should help.

Advice for SVG? Just hope to land in the top 3 of the draft. I'm guessing we'll all be surprised if next year isn't better. Still, this team's got a low ceiling, as constructed. I'm afraid the big stories come fall are going to be how good Reggie's feeling and how Andre thinks he's really turned the corner with his FTs. Oh, and the move.

Something big's needed, but it's tough to see how to jump ahead without some great turns of fortune.

[Oracle]

Oracle, I'm on the same page with you about seeing a great team (except with our starting backcourt; I know I stand alone with that) but, our coaching sucks from top to bottom! I never felt singled out. What we have in our current team is something fans are not accustomed to and that's multiple trade pieces, players that GM's won't hang up on SVG at the mention of their names. Basketball people are willing to listen when the discussion starts with Jackson, Johnson, Leuer, and even Morris (who really is a gem, current contract wise); Ish and Boban, as throw-ins, makes a great trade for us possible, depending on who we're pursuing. It's time to stop dicking around in the middle of the road, with middle of the road player signings...swing for the fences! - Totally agree! We have a lot of nice pieces, but swinging for the fences is a slogan thrown around that is very difficult to do in the real world. Who's available to swing for the fences for? Will you have to trade away the youth to get them and then who do you have left? BTW, a fail at swinging for the fences can leave you in a horrible situation for years, and I've never seen it work except in very unusual cases like LeBron and Ainge putting together that Celtic team, and he got lucky!

Too much money spent on providing too much security for people (players and coaches) that haven't arrived at the level of guaranteed security; who the hell goes from their rookie contract to signing a maximum contract, that's not established themselves as "super stars/stars" during their rookie contract? T.V. money shouldn't have such a negative impact on common sense because if it does, it's watering down the quality of the game and pricing the fan of average means out of the stadium....don't think for a minute that T.V. money is going to maintain or lower the gate prices. - Again, totally agree! However, the market establishes the norm, whatever it is, and right now, nobody has to earn it like they used to, they just show up after their rookie deal looking like they MAY be worth it in a few years and it's good enough. I don't like it, but I don't like a lot of stuff that happens in a lot of places, but that's the game we're playing. In the specific case of KCP, I'd offer him something below the max and see if another team gives him the max. We can still offer more years, so we can be below the max and provide more total money and security.

Look, the smart money is to sign KCP to whatever it takes, there is no down side to doing that! Just as you have noted, we can trade him at any time and get that value back.

Right about now SVG should've done an honest self evaluation and realized that if he wasn't being over sawn by himself, he'd have been fired/replaced as HC of the Pistons by now. Too much guaranteed security strikes from on high. Here's a thought; have Mark Jacksons people meet with SVG's people (SVG tends to overpay) to start hammering out a contract beginning 2017-18 season, and have it incentive based. I believe this current teams record would've looked better and the players would've responded more positively to Mark Jackson's coaching, not to mention, Jackson wouldn't have made the same jackass moves SVG did. The point can and will be argued in favor of SVG but, the fact is we don't know. - IMO, nobody would fire SVG on the basis of this season just after the team that went to the playoffs had an injury filled season which caused a major letdown in their two major stars. Of course he made a major mistake bringing Reggie back too soon, but that was an understandable mistake even though that knowledge doesn't excuse it from a coach with his stature and power. I reluctantly forgive him.   

The bottom line to me is that while there are a lot of risky things we could do, the smart thing in my opinion is to do the following.

1. Bring the basic core of the team back: That includes all of the starters, Ish, all of the rookies and of course Stanley. Building chemistry is, IMO the single most important mission at this point.

2. Tinker around the edges: Is Leuer the right guy, really evaluate the supporting cast and make any necessary moves

3. Stop pussy footing with the lineup: Harris is a 3, move Morris to the bench and start a real 4 next to Drummond & Harris and with a healthy Reggie and energized KCP, watch this team take off.

4. Coach the TEAM: Don't coach the design(4 out 1 in), coach the damn team you have. KCP is a much better player when he's not jacking up contested 3's, both he and Harris can break down defenses and cause havoc and with Reggie, we'll drive teams crazy. Use the 3 like LB did... break open in case of fire!

By far I think finding the right PF to play with Drummond is the biggest issue we face, and solving that will do wonders for this team. My ideal PF would be a stretch PF that can defend, but that may be asking too much.

[deusXango]

Oracle, I'm on the same page with you about seeing a great team (except with our starting backcourt; I know I stand alone with that) but, our coaching sucks from top to bottom! I never felt singled out. What we have in our current team is something fans are not accustomed to and that's multiple trade pieces, players that GM's won't hang up on SVG at the mention of their names. Basketball people are willing to listen when the discussion starts with Jackson, Johnson, Leuer, and even Morris (who really is a gem, current contract wise); Ish and Boban, as throw-ins, makes a great trade for us possible, depending on who we're pursuing. It's time to stop dicking around in the middle of the road, with middle of the road player signings...swing for the fences!

Too much money spent on providing too much security for people (players and coaches) that haven't arrived at the level of guaranteed security; who the hell goes from their rookie contract to signing a maximum contract, that's not established themselves as "super stars/stars" during their rookie contract? T.V. money shouldn't have such a negative impact on common sense because if it does, it's watering down the quality of the game and pricing the fan of average means out of the stadium....don't think for a minute that T.V. money is going to maintain or lower the gate prices.

Right about now SVG should've done an honest self evaluation and realized that if he wasn't being over sawn by himself, he'd have been fired/replaced as HC of the Pistons by now. Too much guaranteed security strikes from on high. Here's a thought; have Mark Jacksons people meet with SVG's people (SVG tends to overpay) to start hammering out a contract beginning 2017-18 season, and have it incentive based. I believe this current teams record would've looked better and the players would've responded more positively to Mark Jackson's coaching, not to mention, Jackson wouldn't have made the same jackass moves SVG did. The point can and will be argued in favor of SVG but, the fact is we don't know.

[Oracle]

I'm not picking you out as the only person, but I just wonder why people don't see what a lot of people in basketball see in this team.

I said that there were 2 players on this team that fit, right now, on any team that's a contender, that's Harris & KCP, those two stand out for a LOT of real basketball reasons., yet both are always the guys people want to bench, trade, or both. Orlando traded Harris to keep Gordon, but now they want him back. Moves based on emotion and not basketball will keep us in a perpetual rebuild cycle like so many loser teams.

2. Are there any positives to take out of this season for Detroit Pistons fans?

Topham:
Two positives to move forward with are the development of Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Tobias Harris as players you can run offense through. KCP is currently holds career high marks in three point field goal percentage (.359 on 5.8 attempts per game), PER (13.2), true shooting percentage (.524). He’s also flashed much improved playmaking abilities. As for Harris, despite the foolishness of not starting him for almost half of the games this season, he has developed into perhaps the team’s most important offensive weapon. Harris is leading the team in scoring at 16.2 points per game and is also posting career highs in PER (16.9) and true shooting percentage (.571). He’s young, dynamic and a mismatch for many opposing threes/fours, so it would make sense to try to feature him even more moving forward.

Haggart:
This team is not a finished product. While this season is easily conveyed as a disappointment I think that this aspect bodes well for the Detroit Pistons. Through smart trades and patience, Detroit has left themselves in a good place as far as assets and flexibility go. They have all of their first round draft picks in case a deal comes along and are without any albatross contracts. While this may change a little bit when KCP’s almost sure max contract comes up this summer, the whole team should be quite easy to move if needed. I look forward to the offseason when I really think that Stan Van Gundy and company will go to work on improving the team.

Way:
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope’s improvements offensively have certainly been a big positive for the Pistons. KCP has proven that he has the ability to handle a bigger offensive load and could be a more prominent ball handler in the offense in future seasons. Stanley Johnson’s February was equally encouraging. If Stanley can continue to develop offensively, he and KCP could be quite the formidable wing duo in the future.  Having two young, positive defenders who are legitimate starting-caliber wings is a great building block for any team.  Stanley needs to prove himself offensively first, but he looked much more comfortable offensively in the second half of the season.

Needless to say I've been singing the KCP/Stanley duo for some time!

[deusXango]

Without calling any names, the real reason I'm pissed off and bitching about this season is because I had such high hopes after last years performance; we had a much weaker bench, and chemistry that was in the early stages of developing...all those areas were corrected this year. I don't believe I stand alone in my vision of the Pistons fighting for the 4th seed, instead of landing in the 5th seed slot (home court advantage) but here we stand, out of the playoffs all together and only someone that's either high or delusional see us making the playoffs. I mean damn, we've not had a 4 game winning streak all season!!! What would we accomplish by making the playoffs this season and not distinguishing ourselves half as much as we did last year?

Who or what or where does the fault belong? Drummond? He doesn't make FT's, but he does make more in a year than the average Joe makes in a lifetime. Harris? He's already been benched for his inability to play SVG's brand of offense. Jackson? The guy who's been misdiagnosed with an injury that's really an ongoing condition. KCP? The flavor of the day who's about to hold the franchise with the 3rd highest payroll (with nothing to show for it) feet to the fire, for an outrageous contract, he's not really deserving. Where does the fault belong? That's my angst.

[Oracle]

These guys are trapped. No one prepared them to be carrying the burden of thousands of fans. They had no idea what they were signing up for — how could you? They only thought that they were living out their dreams, and that everyone would be happy for them. Only a few are preternaturally ready for the pressure not only of the game itself but of the shitstorm that awaits when they under perform.

How would you feel in your own job, if every day that you under performed, you had thousands of people on social media - Facebook, Instagram, Twitter - hounding you, telling you that you did a **** job today? Literally thousands, thousands of people telling you that you suck. Or the next day when you do have a good game that you’re a star again? And these people aren’t even your boss, they’re your peers, people who have no idea about how hard it was for you to get to where you got in the first place? To be judged by a mass of people who you have no idea of if they are even worthy of judging you in the first place?

I just googled “stars who hate being famous” looking for some real insight into how it is to be famous and what that reality must be like and all I got were lists of “Top ten stars who hate fame”. There is no humanity even in that.

This whole piece is only really for me, for me to take a step back and stop being so critical. Of Stan, of Dre, of Reggie, of Gores, of KCP, of whomever. It’s for me and hopefully for you to take a step back and recognize all of these people as people. In the grand scheme of things it all really doesn’t matter. It would be great, wonderful, amazing if the Pistons were a 4th or 5th or 6th or even 8th seed. It would be great if they even won the Championship. But hey, we have a great example blazing in front us for the idea that it all really doesn’t matter. The Cleveland Cavaliers, who won the championship less than one year ago are already being reviled for not being ready to defend their title this year.

Just remember this...

[Oracle]

What can we get from them if we cough up Leuer & Stanley?

[Oracle]

DX, while I agree with most of what you say, I wasn't going for what I want to happen, but what I think they will do.

While I agree with some of what I think they will do, I don't agree with all of it.

For instance I think Harris can add the 3 point shot to his game, hell, he's only 23!

But at the same time I'm reading SVG's tea leaves and Harris won't do what he asks.

Morris & KCP will happily follow what he wants and will jack up as many 3's as they can.

I used to think SVG was crazy, but nobody ever got better at anything by NOT doing it. It's just that SVG is EXCESSIVE!

[deusXango]

Deus,
I have a sad suspicion that our coaching staff is NOT a very good teaching staff.
- Do we play with any greater SMARTS than a year ago, particularly in crunch time. Heck no !!!
- Why does Stanley still play with excessive over aggressiveness, and damn near does the splits on each jumper. - Stanley is flat out bad, but that may not be bad for us. Sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward. Look for a much better year next year.
- Why does Dre still bring every rebound down to his waist for easy pickings.
- Why does Dre throw up a hurried boo boo shot following each offensive rebound. No matter how out of position he is. - Dre is still young, the Drummond of today will be no match for the Drummond in his prime at greater than 26/27 years of age. We need to have patience here and I know it's hard. 
- At game 22, why didn't SVG and crew have a talk with RJAX about how this squad had evolved, pointing out the different type of leadership they required. - Major coaching FAIL!  
- KCP physical game has improved steadily but he is allowed to continue his "swing for the fences" understanding of the game. -  KCP showed us early in his career what was coming when he blew up at OKC. His defense was at a higher level early on than it is now, since he's been more offensive minded, but as you noted, he's much better physically, Afflalo can't push him around like he used to. This year his consistency, while not as good as we want is a lot better, and he's been way more explosive and clutch than any other year.

SIGH
I guess our youths are left to grow on their on.

Lemon, all very good observations!

So what should we do?

I've said this and there was a recent article that said the same thing... look to what Washington & the Bucks did.

What did they do? They didn't panic!

Both of these teams didn't come to the crazy conclusion that everything they knew about their team was WRONG just because they had a setback one season.

They didn't jump all over their guys, they showed a little thing that fans don't seem to have... some loyalty. When you keep seeing the next savior sitting just down the bench every freaking year, you've got a problem!
I find the coaching to be sub-standard and challenge anyone to find anything outstanding about the in game adjustments, offensive schemes, player deployment, and development. (Drummond, Johnson, or Ellenson have not been developed!)

So where do we really stand?
Stuck on a coach who's stuck in the past.

Reggie Jackson: When healthy, he's a top guard in this league. Where does the "top" stop? We do have to question if he can regain his form and that's a medical decision that the Pistons should be fully capable of answering, so I'll let them do the work. On the down side, he's just outside the age range of the core guys, so options will be looked at. My Guess: He stays.
If Reggie stays, it's an administrative flop...first of all, recurring knee tendinitis is not an injury, it's a condition; factor in an athlete with an asthmatic condition and well....

KCP: In that article it was noted that KCP & Harris are the two most valuable pieces right now. KCP is the solution for a real contender at the starting SG position on a team that needs a 3rd scorer and more importantly a defender that competes on every play, and that's the key, you don't get that on average. KCP is hard to replace, but he also can return a lot. My Guess: He stays 70%, S&T 30%.
The team has the 3rd highest payroll in the entire league and at its best, the payroll shouldn't be that high, and you want to pay KCP what?

Morris: This one is simple, his contract is just too damn sweet to move. My Guess: He stays.

Harris: He's just like KCP, a very good component for a contender. Unlike Morris, his age makes him the perfect fit with KCP & Drummond to move forward and build around. If SVG determines that Harris will never add the 3 point shot to his skills, then he's the prime player to move. In fact, it would benefit the Pistons to move Harris the most because he doesn't fit the offense SVG wants to run. My Guess: He stays 50%, Trade 50%.
I'm amazed at the season long justifications given for trading Harris when an honest fan can see that he's a true pro, through and through...he lacks a 3 point shot?! What type offense does SVG really want to run? I'd rather have a scoring machine, from mid-range in, who can create his own offense, than an inconsistent long range bomber! Oh yeah, 1 extra point does make a big difference for us.

Drummond: Another simple one. My Guess: He stays.

On the fringes:
Leuer: No other way to look at him but a disappointment. He's had some good moments but there weren't enough. This is why I don't understand the favoritism shown him; replacing Harris in the starting lineup with him and not giving Ellenson any PT when he started to suck on a regular basis.

Boban: While I would hope we keep him, the way SVG played him makes me wonder if he trusts him at all.
What goes on in SVG's head is the biggest reason our record is what it is, but for some unexplained reason we won't recognize it for what it obviously is. We as fans have no right to accuse the local media of "whitewashing" with this being the case.

Overall Guess: The Pistons try to return as much of the current team as possible, rightly thinking that this season will sting and we get the kind of season we got last season when they had a huge chip on their shoulders and wanting to take it out on the league!

All in all this is a great post Oracle, I just enjoy being the Devils Advocate on things that'll never change; we manufacture heroes that haven't earned our loyalty and stick by them until the bitter end, and until the end comes, we throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[Oracle]

Deus,
I have a sad suspicion that our coaching staff is NOT a very good teaching staff.
- Do we play with any greater SMARTS than a year ago, particularly in crunch time. Heck no !!!
- Why does Stanley still play with excessive over aggressiveness, and damn near does the splits on each jumper. - Stanley is flat out bad, but that may not be bad for us. Sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward. Look for a much better year next year.
- Why does Dre still bring every rebound down to his waist for easy pickings.
- Why does Dre throw up a hurried boo boo shot following each offensive rebound. No matter how out of position he is. - Dre is still young, the Drummond of today will be no match for the Drummond in his prime at greater than 26/27 years of age. We need to have patience here and I know it's hard. 
- At game 22, why didn't SVG and crew have a talk with RJAX about how this squad had evolved, pointing out the different type of leadership they required. - Major coaching FAIL!  
- KCP physical game has improved steadily but he is allowed to continue his "swing for the fences" understanding of the game. -  KCP showed us early in his career what was coming when he blew up at OKC. His defense was at a higher level early on than it is now, since he's been more offensive minded, but as you noted, he's much better physically, Afflalo can't push him around like he used to. This year his consistency, while not as good as we want is a lot better, and he's been way more explosive and clutch than any other year.

SIGH
I guess our youths are left to grow on their on.

Lemon, all very good observations!

So what should we do?

I've said this and there was a recent article that said the same thing... look to what Washington & the Bucks did.

What did they do? They didn't panic!

Both of these teams didn't come to the crazy conclusion that everything they knew about their team was WRONG just because they had a setback one season.

They didn't jump all over their guys, they showed a little thing that fans don't seem to have... some loyalty. When you keep seeing the next savior sitting just down the bench every freaking year, you've got a problem!

So where do we really stand?

Reggie Jackson: When healthy, he's a top guard in this league. We do have to question if he can regain his form and that's a medical decision that the Pistons should be fully capable of answering, so I'll let them do the work. On the down side, he's just outside the age range of the core guys, so options will be looked at. My Guess: He stays.

KCP: In that article it was noted that KCP & Harris are the two most valuable pieces right now. KCP is the solution for a real contender at the starting SG position on a team that needs a 3rd scorer and more importantly a defender that competes on every play, and that's the key, you don't get that on average. KCP is hard to replace, but he also can return a lot. My Guess: He stays 70%, S&T 30%.

Morris: This one is simple, his contract is just too damn sweet to move. My Guess: He stays.

Harris: He's just like KCP, a very good component for a contender. Unlike Morris, his age makes him the perfect fit with KCP & Drummond to move forward and build around. If SVG determines that Harris will never add the 3 point shot to his skills, then he's the prime player to move. In fact, it would benefit the Pistons to move Harris the most because he doesn't fit the offense SVG wants to run. My Guess: He stays 50%, Trade 50%.

Drummond: Another simple one. My Guess: He stays.

On the fringes:
Leuer: No other way to look at him but a disappointment. He's had some good moments but there weren't enough.

Boban: While I would hope we keep him, the way SVG played him makes me wonder if he trusts him at all.

Overall Guess: The Pistons try to return as much of the current team as possible, rightly thinking that this season will sting and we get the kind of season we got last season when they had a huge chip on their shoulders and wanting to take it out on the league!

[lemonpen]

Perhaps it's my computer but, every time I click on a news search (no matter who posted it; News, Free Press, MLive, Fansided) I end up with this "Lopez scored 29" article; WTF is up with that? After reading Don's last scathing post on Drummond, I wondered if there is a campaign afoot to replace Drummond with Lopez...I'd say don't do it. At least Drummond got us to an 8th seed but, Lopez never got the Nets anywhere, barely keeping them from rock bottom! I'd take him in a S & T for KCP's expected $20+ million a year offer but, it wouldn't be to build around him; he's a complimentary piece, much like Drummond. Don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely love to have both of them, going downtown.

I'm all for ridding ourselves of this sub-standard, albeit overrated, backcourt of Reggie and KCP; dropping a foot in Andre's ass to not work on his FT's but, improve on making them! His rim protection is more important than rebounds (he's got 5 years of practice on that part of his game and it should come 2nd nature to him now), so get us a coach in here that can instill that in him; SVG isn't that coach! I've long said that my belief is, he's a better president than coach, but then there's that misleading ego that has this franchise on the verge of total collapse. Hire a coach SVG! As for the backcourt, I'd start grooming a couple of promising rookies ala Stuckey/Afflalo, only I'd groom them through playing them...it makes no sense to continue drafting for the D-League when your team is performing at the level our Pistons have been. It's a Goddamn shame we're at this point of the season and SVG is still coming up with excuses as to why Henry Ellenson isn't being played! Sit Morris on the bench and start Henry with Tobias; if Morris is all the pro he says he is then he'd have no problem coming off the bench with Leuer. I'm rambling, so I'll shut up.

Deus,
I have a sad suspicion that our coaching staff is NOT a very good teaching staff.
- Do we play with any greater SMARTS than a year ago, particularly in crunch time. Heck no !!!
- Why does Stanley still play with excessive overaggressiveness, and damn near does the splits on each jumper.
- Why does Dre still bring every rebound down to his waist for easy pickings.
- Why does Dre throw up a hurried boo boo shot following each offensive rebound. No matter how out of position he is.
- At game 22, why didn't SVG and crew have a talk with RJAX about how this squad had evolved, pointing out the different type of leadership they required.
- KCP physical game has improved steadily but he is allowed to continue his "swing for the fences" understanding of the game.

SIGH
I guess our youths are left to grow on their on.

[deusXango]

Perhaps it's my computer but, every time I click on a news search (no matter who posted it; News, Free Press, MLive, Fansided) I end up with this "Lopez scored 29" article; WTF is up with that? After reading Don's last scathing post on Drummond, I wondered if there is a campaign afoot to replace Drummond with Lopez...I'd say don't do it. At least Drummond got us to an 8th seed but, Lopez never got the Nets anywhere, barely keeping them from rock bottom! I'd take him in a S & T for KCP's expected $20+ million a year offer but, it wouldn't be to build around him; he's a complimentary piece, much like Drummond. Don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely love to have both of them, going downtown.

I'm all for ridding ourselves of this sub-standard, albeit overrated, backcourt of Reggie and KCP; dropping a foot in Andre's ass to not work on his FT's but, improve on making them! His rim protection is more important than rebounds (he's got 5 years of practice on that part of his game and it should come 2nd nature to him now), so get us a coach in here that can instill that in him; SVG isn't that coach! I've long said that my belief is, he's a better president than coach, but then there's that misleading ego that has this franchise on the verge of total collapse. Hire a coach SVG! As for the backcourt, I'd start grooming a couple of promising rookies ala Stuckey/Afflalo, only I'd groom them through playing them...it makes no sense to continue drafting for the D-League when your team is performing at the level our Pistons have been. It's a Goddamn shame we're at this point of the season and SVG is still coming up with excuses as to why Henry Ellenson isn't being played! Sit Morris on the bench and start Henry with Tobias; if Morris is all the pro he says he is then he'd have no problem coming off the bench with Leuer. I'm rambling, so I'll shut up.

[cool breeze]

Watching how hard the college players from all four teams fought for loose balls in the Final 4 games should give something for SVG to think about. I attended the McDonald's All Star High school game this past week. It wasn't pretty and some of the big men reminded me a lot of Andre Drummond's lame I don't have a clue approach to playing defense. The impact of the AAU style of fake basketball is giving good college coaches headaches. I didn't see any player of the designated All Stars group who looked like they would be rotation players in the NBA in their first season after being drafted. That game looked like the NBA All Star game where nobody plays defense. The overall physical conditioning of the high school big men was noticeable. Yet the way some of the players carry themselves indicated that they thought that they were ready now to play in the NBA. I attended the McDonald's All Star game the year that Labon played. He was a man among boys. If he were 18 years old now and just finishing high school he could have scored 100 points against the current youngster stars. Where is the commitment to getting yourself in outstanding physical condition?

While traveling I was reading a book written by a Medic about his life with the Navy Seals. This man identifies the facts about the what separates those few special men who make it through BUDS from the soldiers who fail. The commitment must be so incredible that you somehow get yourself comfortable going beyond your limits physically and mentally. Reading this made me think of our Pistons and the total lack of real commitment our key players had this season. Some players including our $20 Million Dollar a year franchise player have never even taken themselves anywhere near their limits. That is the problem Those basketball players who have a long history of being on losing teams year after year never play with the real studs who know how to win. Ben Wallace was a guy who went far beyond his normal limits. Watching some of the game film recently shown at the Palace for Ben shows how quidk he was when he came over to help and blocked shots and dug deep to provide what was needed for his team to be successful. Meanwhile I can't get another image that I was in the Bucks game involving Andre Drummond. First off this man is a big faker. He has not idea what it takes to make himself the best basketball player he is capable of being. The lame mental approach he has shown at the free throw line is sickening to me. He isn't concentrating. He is just throwing the ball up and hoping for the best. But that behind the back pass Andre made on the games most important possession against the Bucks where he needlessly created a turnover tells everyone who saw it that is was not really serious in that critical time of the game. Who would do that? I really don't know anyone who were make that behind the back pass for no reason but just to show off when the game is on the line. Then I wonder what has happened to Stanley Johnson. Andre Drummond is a goof ball who has a great time mixing basketball lifestyle with his off the court fun. But Johnson used to be very serious about his game. Just the way Stanley runs the floor before he sets up for his cigar store indian positioning on the baseline beyond the 3 point line looks weird to be. Johnson always ran the floor like a freight train. He played all out and now he seems different. This change in shooting style regarding his jump shot has not worked out. The motion doesn't look natural. But even worse is Johnson's mental approach to the position he is in playing as a fringe player with limited minutes. Who is Johnson hanging around with now that he is in his pro lifestyle? He he hanging with Andre Drummond too much?

Stan Van Gundy and Tom Gores have created a real problem by making Andre Drummond the franchise player. Somehow they need to undo this nightmare. You need to have a real player who has established a real COMMITMENT with the extreme physical conditioning and mental conditioning it takes to be a successful winner in the NBA. Then that player can lead the rest. We have no alpha dog. We have a powerful man occupying the center position who has never made a commitment to excellence on the basketball court. The young players coming in from college have no mentor or role model. Instead this group has a guy who shows the crowd that he is capable of throwing a behind the back pass while jogging back on offense during the time when real men are concentrating on what they can do to help their team win the damn game. Andre Drummond needs to be traded and the sooner the better. He can take Johnson with him if Johnson doesn't change back over the summer to the guy I used to know.

The Piston organization made a special effort to talk it up about what kind of team they really wanted. Remember the "Let's go to work" nonsense that the players talked about? What happened to that commitment to being that hard nosed type of team they said they wanted to be like? Instead these players do not play very tough at all.

[WTF]

This is that **** I keep ranting about as to why the league is all jacked up.

Enough with all these projected freshmen being drafted in the first round. Whoever this Jarrett Allan is they have us picking at 13 might as well be another Andre in the making.

Seriously are when saying that no player got better in their Sophmore or Junior year they can't be picked in the first round? BS BS BS BS BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sponsored content]