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Most popular Sports?

Post  Oracle on Tue May 02, 2017 7:58 pm

Football is #1 by a long shot, and Don is right, Basketball in sloping down from it's rise starting in the late 80's. BTW Ballin, we're still paying Josh, so maybe SVG's secret plan is to bring him back... to the future Smile 

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue May 02, 2017 11:22 am

deusXango wrote:There you go ladies and gentlemen, next season will be mailed in! I didn't get the feeling the thinking is for Leuer to be 10-12th man, but an integral part of the starting unit...I mean he was brought here to upgrade Anthony Tolliver people....ANTHONY TOLLIVER!!! Over the course of the season, he failed at that.Sad

How did Leuer go from being signed as a potent addition to a sad bench to starting by game 25, replacing, arguably, the most talented offensive player on the team? The truthful answer to that question is disturbingly shameful, as far as coaching decisions go. The facts that are presented for the eye test are, he did okay for awhile, then fizzled miserably and SVG stubbornly kept him in the starting lineup...Harris had NEVER played down to the level Leuer had in the first 25 games, yet he lost his starting spot. Hmmm.

What team has Jon Leuer ever played for that looked to him for their success? Where does this leave Ellenson's chances to prove or disprove his value in the NBA game? One thing I feel certain of, lose of confidence won't be one of his problems.

SVG is throwing out a lot of story lines maybe so the owner doesn't fire him before the draft. If anyone should be fired it should be Stan Van Gundy. He has to make this thing work now with the over paid fringe players he selected purely on the basis of potential to make 3 point shots. We get a double dose of bull crap to further insult all Piston fans with the Jon Leuer + KCP nonsense. All this means with the Leuer build up drum roll is that Stan Van Gundy doesn't have any plans to install Ellenson into the rotation. He is not ready. Only KCP and Jon Leuer will fit in well with Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond. And of course Morris will also be the starting small forward again. Meanwhile Jason Kidd will stoke up the fire as his players put their war paint ready to play with great team chemistry and dedicated to kicking ass and taking names. We will have Andre Drummond dancing in the circle again perhaps maybe with 20 extra pounds of fat around his belly acting as the team leader. When SVG says his star franchise players needs to play with more urgency that tells me our coach has his back to the hardwood too much while taking out his frustration on the bench players who do not play. When a coach shows frustration that means he doesn't know why his team is malfunctioning. Does Tom Gores know that? The real truth about Andre Drummond is that he doesn't know how to play the game of basketball or how a center should behave playing NBA caliber basketball. He doesn't know how to defend. He doesn't know when to switch on defense. He bases his decisions on how tired he is at a particular moment in time. Andre Drummond is a inept decision maker on both ends of the floor. It is not about not being engaged. Yet how can we feel sorry for him when he makes $24 million dollars a year.

Tom Gores needs to fire Stan Van Gundy and remove the cancer on this Piston team before training camp. Andre Drummond has some value but nobody will take his contract unless the owner agrees to pay part of his salary. That needs to be done. Tim Hardaway and all the other assistant coaches who have been with SVG for the past three years need to be fired. Get back to a manageable salary structure for this dysfunctional team and bring in somebody younger and smarter to manage and coach the Detroit Pistons. I do not see any team in the playoffs that plays the style of offense featuring a dribbling happy point guard always going up against 5 defenders. That is Tim Hardaway style of basketball. Unless big things happen relating to roster change and coaching change, all Piston fans will have to look forward to will be the possibility of the All Star game coming to Detroit. Who watches the All Star game these days? That event is so dull it is silly to even talk about. And this is what Piston management is working on it seems. The All Star game where the Pistons have no All Star caliber player. I can't wait to watch Labron James strut around Downtown Detroit after a short drive in his KIA from Cleveland. Do people actually watch that meaningless event?

The NBA is going south very quickly and losing popularity big time. And of course the new agreement in place to sucker young college players to move into the draft before they are ready will have an even more negative effect on the college game. So far the 2nd round playoff games have been duds. Who even bothers to watch the Cleveland-Toronto series? I tried but failed to get past the 1st quarter of this last game. Will the NBA Front office instruct the officials to hit Labron with two fouls in the next game to try to create more interest? Some sort of Front office tampering will be needed for sure or the ratings will go down the toilet until the finals. But Stan Van Gundy is still hopeful that he can sell some season tickets if he hypes up his star players more. Who will he feature next? We have Leuer and KCP ready to go now so will it be Ish Smith next or Reggie again? Both will be working on dribbling this summer. They already have a good plan to stop Irving, Wall and all other starting caliber point guards who embarrassed them last season. We don't need to play better defense. We need more scoring and that is what they will do so SVG can relax and enjoy the summer.

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Here Comes The Sun, Little Darling

Post  BallinD on Tue May 02, 2017 1:55 am

deusXango wrote:The Darlings of The D
Andre, Reggie J, Leuer, Morris, and KCP (Baynes, honorable mention)

The "Oh, If I Gottas"
Boban, Tobias, Stanley, Reggie B, and Ish (Nah, On second thought, I'll just play Baynes and KCP some more minutes)

The "Aww, Hell Naws"
Henry, and Beno (On second thought, maybe I should give Hilliard these minutes)

And there's the "who's those guys...who are those guys?" This is who SVG wants to try it one more time with.Shocked (Where's  Josh Smith when ya need him; he shoots a lot of threes.) 

No worries Little Darlings, SVG promises us the sun will rise tomorrow (Next Season).  Cue in the soundtrack to Annie: "The Sun will come out tomorrow," or else "It's a Hard Knock Life"(for us).


Last edited by BallinD on Tue May 02, 2017 2:27 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ooops)
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Spin Cycle

Post  BallinD on Mon May 01, 2017 11:49 pm

SVG and his media cronies love to spin the debacle of last year, so we get ludicrous statements like we will be better from three because our long-range shooting will miraculously improve. SVG: "Because I like our core."

Then we hear that Leuer is the key to our success (we are doomed then).  "He just lost confidence is all..."

Then we hear Andre needs a sense of urgency, like yeah, we just maxed him out and he don't care (obviously...low motor folks, cause he missed a free throw, didn't get that rebound, not enough post touches, his buddy Weggie is indisposed?!?!) But he's gonna turn it around after being reassured it's okay to try hard cause the situation is "Urgent."

But first and foremost we heard that Reggie, a pass-to-myself, extra-high-usage-player and one of the worst defenders at the pointguard position in the NBA (arguably) had a great practice before the last game of the season (in which he did not play) and he will lead us to the promised land next year.  No worries/.  "We Talking 'Bout Practice?!?!?!"

Then on KCP we hear,  "We can't lose him; we just can't." And so it goes in the land of the spin cycle.  guitar


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SVG's Pecking Order (as of today)

Post  deusXango on Mon May 01, 2017 10:40 pm

The Darlings of The D
Andre, Reggie J, Leuer, Morris, and KCP

The "Oh, If I Gottas"
Boban, Tobias, Stanley, Reggie B, and Ish

The "Aww, Hell Naws"
Henry, and Beno

And there's the "who's those guys...who are those guys?" This is who SVG wants to try it one more time with.Shocked
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Jon Leuer Is The Key To Detroit Pistons Success

Post  deusXango on Mon May 01, 2017 10:23 pm

There you go ladies and gentlemen, next season will be mailed in! I didn't get the feeling the thinking is for Leuer to be 10-12th man, but an integral part of the starting unit...I mean he was brought here to upgrade Anthony Tolliver people....ANTHONY TOLLIVER!!! Over the course of the season, he failed at that.Sad

How did Leuer go from being signed as a potent addition to a sad bench to starting by game 25, replacing, arguably, the most talented offensive player on the team? The truthful answer to that question is disturbingly shameful, as far as coaching decisions go. The facts that are presented for the eye test are, he did okay for awhile, then fizzled miserably and SVG stubbornly kept him in the starting lineup...Harris had NEVER played down to the level Leuer had in the first 25 games, yet he lost his starting spot. Hmmm.

What team has Jon Leuer ever played for that looked to him for their success? Where does this leave Ellenson's chances to prove or disprove his value in the NBA game? One thing I feel certain of, lose of confidence won't be one of his problems.
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I'm trying hard, but I think I understand how you guys feel about this team...

Post  Oracle on Mon May 01, 2017 4:43 pm

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Comments from the great Hubie Brown announcing the Clippers-Jazz game on Sunday

Post  cool breeze on Mon May 01, 2017 3:38 pm

Whenever I saw an upcoming coaches clinic featuring Hubie Brown I couldn't wait to go. You always picked up incredible insight relating to every aspect of coaching basketball. In this last game, Brown would rattle off the Clippers options on offense depending on who had the ball and where the players was on the court. He understands and can breakdown how things go wrong on both defense and offense I only wish he could be working for the Pistons in some capacity now. Instead SVG has gotten the Pistons into the worst possible position relating to having the ability to add talent or provide better coaching for the inept players we currently watch.

The NBA Front office has several pet teams and one of them was the Clippers. In the 3rd quarter until the last minute or so, the refs tried hard to help the Clippers reduce the hard fought lead by Utah. Wouldn't it be great to have a player like Gordon Hayward? Everytime the refs made a bogus call against Utah, Hayward would be there to get a contested rebound or slide around eventually getting to one of his favorite spots to make a key shot.

One comment made by Hubie Brown that Stan Van Gundy would be wise to listen to involved the importance of players moving without the basketball in the half court offense. Our players are told not to do that. This has taken away the strong area of Stanley Johnson's game. He has always been a guy who helps create space for his teammates by moving without the basketball. SVG doesn't want that from him. He has been scolded for doing it. Johnson has to stand like a cigar store indian on the baseline beyond the 3 point line. Stan wants his point guards to be the only player who moves with the exception of his power forward and center. The result is that the Detroit PISTONS ARE THE EASIEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE TO GUARD. Opposing teams have SVG figured out but you could be a moron and figure out what SVG wants from his team in the half offense. He can't figure out why the scoring wasn't up to his standards even though his players shoot more contested shots than any other team in the league. The Pistons have nobody with a mid range game because SVG doesn't allow his players who know how to set screens and move without the ball do that job. He wants his point guards to create all the offense. He has the dribbling crazy point guards to do it too. The only problem is that this creates horrible team chemistry because at least 3 of 5 of the players on the floor have no role in the offense. They stand and watch. Sometimes the point guard throws them a bone so they shoot it regardless of how tight they are being defended. You only get a few chances to shoot the rock so take it. Because the Piston point guards dominate the basketball so much the team only plays one side of the floor. There are few weak side plays. You can count on not touching the basketball if you are playing on the weak side. Opposing teams do not have to protect the weak side. They can focus on the strong side and encourage Piston point guards to keep on dribbling until late in the shot clock.

Tim Hardaway has directed the offense and the Piston point guards now for 3 years. He was hand picked by Stan Van Gundy. The play of the Piston point guards is mind numbing. For those who look at the scoring stats and do not watch the dysfunction of the offense will believe that the point guards are among the best in the league. Neither Jackson or Smith are average or above defenders or passers. Everything they do involved dominating the basketball. And SVG wonders why the team has such poor chemistry looking like they have never played together at all from game to game throughout the season. And now that we know the coach is concentrating on Jon Leuer being the key to Piston success next year wouldn't that cause Tom Gores to at least question if SVG is sane? Hubie Brown is too old to get back into coaching but if he looked at the Pistons play one game from this past season, he would make major changes. He would fire the coach who coaches the point guards along with the big man assistant coach. Then he would give Andre Drummond the facts of life. No more baby talk SVG for Andre. Drummond would either have to show that he can become a key defender and defensive rebounder or to the bench he will go regardless of his contract. If he can't be traded he can sit where he belongs at the end of the bench. Brown would then look for one of the older proven pass first point guards. He would develop a 2 guard who can become a consistent scorer from mid range. He would rid the team of weak defenders and build a solid team from the draft.

Right now I feel the same way about this current team as I did after Joe Dumars changed the course of the rebuild moving the team in the wrong direction by signing two free agents Charlie and Ben and drafting Austin Daye. That draft pick was almost as bad as his selection of Rodney While over Joe Johnson. What will Tom Gores do to get things moving back in the right direction. It isn't going to happen on SVG's watch. We will see Lauer and Drummond defending the paint. Please make them wear the Teal so all opposing teams will know they have the green light to drive into the paint for an easy layup in crunch time.

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If Jon Leuer is the key to success next year for our Pistons then the goal then the success measuring stick should be to win one more game than this season. That article is so stupid it had to come from Stan Van Gundy

Post  cool breeze on Mon May 01, 2017 2:58 pm

Everything I read about the Pistons involves the need for more scoring. Leuer was brought in to provide more 3 point shooting. We sure watched a lot of Piston players jack up low percentage 3 point attempts (something SVG takes pride in) but somehow all of our players were easy to guard and our defense could not stop anyone in the first quarter or in crunch time. I keep reading that defense was not a problem last year. Yet all I saw was how easy it was to score in the paint on the Pistons. It didn't matter which team Detroit was taking on, the 2nd and 3rd chance attempts if the initial layup was somehow missed would always be there especially when Drummond and Leuer played together. Leuer proved that he is a horrible defender this past season but somehow it was his 3 point shooting that caused Detroit to become one of the worst team in the league at the start of the new year in January until the end of the regular season. Leuer couldn't carve out playing time with the Suns because he was a horrible defender. In Detroit he is suddenly considered a good defender by the Piston coaches who give stories like " Jon Leuer is Key To Detroit Pistons' success". Prop him up SVG and try to make everyone think that you were not a fool to sign him to that big contract. That is what the article is all about. Fans need HOPE so SVG is giving HOPE and PRAYER to take the heat off himself. So I guess we can count on Harris coming off the bench again. SVG says he has the right players it was just bad luck that his team ended up in the 12th spot in the draft. This will be your last season with the Detroit Pistons Mr. Van Gundy. We will suffer through it as best we can.

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How similar is Quinn to SVG?

Post  Sparma on Mon May 01, 2017 1:05 pm

Going into this season, I admired what SVG had accomplished with the Pistons, systematically upgrading the roster.  I still think he managed to do so even last summer, specifically with the back up PGs. He did a great job given the considerable constraints (eg no 1st Rounder the first year) within which he was working.

Now though, I think we just aren't good enough (eg at shooting), and the pieces don't fit comfortably (eg you just can't use AD as a pivot in your offense, even though he can make a significant contribution, esp. on the offensive boards).

Similarly, I think Quinn's done a great job so far with the Lions.  He's focused on broad roster upgrading (as SVG has), and has made serious progress.  He's gone for incremental improvements, and seems to have pulled that off with the OLine.

BUT, are we good enough to get over the hump?  He drafted smartly again, I think, in that we can expect many to stick on the roster.

(btw, I think the Lions' 9-7 involved some luck; my recollection is that SVG, when warning against excessive expectations going into the 2016-'17 alluded to the role luck had played, eg in opposing players being out.)

At some point though, you've got to have not just a solid roster, but better talent than the opponent.  

To that end, I would have swung for the fences with Reuben Foster in the first round, going for a dominant defender, even though I think Jarrad Davis is a good selection.

With the Pistons, I'd have gone for broke with Cousins, trading Drummond & others, this although I have serious reservations about Boogie.  

A good (B) draft for Quinn, I think, following one that may turn out to be very good, just as SVG started with a couple of good years of decision making.   But with teams in the position of the Pistons and the Lions, at some point you need to go for broke or you're stuck being mediocre.
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Tinker Tinker Tic Toc Tic Toc

Post  BallinD on Mon May 01, 2017 2:07 am

While SVG tinkers with the lineup to try to squeeze blood from a turnip, and make a sow's ear into a silk purse, the clock is ticking on the Piston's window.  It's a small window and without parlaying someone (multiple if needed) on the lineup in a trade to try to get a star, not a superstar, just a star, the SVG era will end in ignominy.  
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It will not be remembered well in Piston history and since SVG said this is his last NBA job, he better get to dealing, cause tinkering ain't gonna get it and after last year, he probably only has one year (maybe two.)  

Can he be trusted?  No, but what else is there.  We will be picking between 10 and higher for the forseeable future (mediocrity) and we do not have the horses to get out of the first round of the playoffs if we do make it back. Other teams are coming on fast, are developing their young talent and we need to step up the giddyup, rather than assume 2016 was a fluke and our players will miraculously become great shooters because...we hope they improve dramatically Kuester
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"Stan Van Gundy Hopes Adversity Motivates Detroit Pistons Next Year"

Post  cool breeze on Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:31 pm

What was the adversity that caused this Piston team to quit during the last two and one half weeks before the end of the season? What was the adversity these players were up against other than they were not good enough to even come close in those games on most nights? Were they handicapped in some way? What caused the players to lose interest and play with very little energy? Well whatever the adversity was, Stan Van Gundy HOPES that is the motivator for the same players who stunk it up this season. Notice the progressing SVG is making. Stan thought the players were not focused enough. Then he thought some of the key players or one player at least didn't have a sense of urgency. The Intensity or alertness with the highest paid players was AWOL. The effort was not there. Now the adversity these poor players underwent in this past season was just horrible for them.

With all that nonsense spin talk are you sleeping well Mr. Gores? Maybe it is Tom Gores fault. Maybe the players want a plane that makes less noise during flights. Perhaps the per diem money is not up to the players standards. How about the accommodations? Does Tom have his players staying a a Motel 6? Maybe the staff are not washing the uniforms. There is so much these players have to deal with it is incredible. And Stan feels for them. but you can bet that our players have the best talent in the league to start with. Somehow those players suffered too much to concentrate on playing focused with high energy like the other teams. Next year these same players will be really mad and put on their game face more often. Now all join hands and watch a video of Andre Drummond dancing in the circle before the start of all home games at the Palace. The fans didn't clap enough and that got Andre off to a poor start for sure. He is mad as hell about it too so get ready for something big to happen next year with the SAME PLAYERS.

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Read the article on the side -"Pistons' Struggle With Mediocrity Makes for Crucial Offseason"

Post  cool breeze on Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:37 pm

This is a more objective and honest article about the true state of the Detroit Pistons. This is what many of us have pointed out through the years since Mr. BigShot played point guard for Detroit. The Pistons never sank far enough down into the sewer to make an impact through the draft where every small market team needs to go if they have any sense at all. You need several top 5 picks with at least one of them a top 2 or 3. We have no solid two way player yet. Management needs to sell tickets so they spin tall tails of the talent they have secured yet we always see in the end that those players get their asses kicked just like the others that played a few years ago. We get the rejects from other teams. We get no better than a top 7 or 8 pick. This year after the dullest season I can recall, Detroit picks at position 12. We hope for a miracle but know in our hearts that we will not be watching a top notch type athlete next season. Detroit decided to over pay for damaged goods so the players currently on the roster will do no worse than securing the 9th - 13th pick again next year. That is unless the team is blown up and SVG cleans house this summer. If he just gives away Drummond and Jackson and does not sign Baynes, Detroit should be more exciting to watch if the young players get to play and at the end of the season our Pistons should get themselves in a more solid position in the draft to secure a atop talent. Otherwise nothing will change. No magic trade is going to happen before the trade deadline next season. Drummond's value is not going up. Jackson's value is not going up. But the team might win too many games next season and then be right where we are now. Of course if that happens SVG will be fired and that will be a good thing. But if SVG did blow the team up this summer he might hang on to his job if he can fire his current assistant coaches and get coaches in who can teach younger athletes and make the game fun for them. This will be a test of SVG's true character. Is he here to make the Pistons organization better or worse off before he leaves? This is his last stop so maybe there is still hope that he will do the right thing and remove the cancer Andre Drummond along with Reggie Jackson sooner rather than later. The Pistons could use next season as a development year along with the taking on the big sacrifice to move up to high places in the draft next summer. Imagine how excited all Piston fans would be next summer waiting for the ping pong balls to land in our favor again. we get a top tier talent like Isiah Thomas and build a team around that guy. Everyone in Michigan would be talking about the Pistons again. As of now the Detroit Pistons are dead in the water.

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Wach for the Labron Rules again in the next series involving Cleveland

Post  cool breeze on Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:20 pm

Did anyone watch the last game of the playoff series between Indiana and Cleveland. Indiana outplayed Cleveland for the entire game. Then in the closing crunch time moments, Labron reached through Young's body shoving him his his body full force knocking Young down with no foul called. Almost all the players stopped with the exception of Labron who knew in advance that the refs would not call a foul. Off he went for any easy score. Then a few moments later Labron drove the length of the court full speed put his shoulder down and drove straight into the body of Paul George who had his feet set one foot beyond the dotted line. George is thrown 15 yards off the court and labron makes the free throw and George is called for a foul. That was only two plays among many in that series. How could the front office allow Cleveland to lose one playoff game in the first round. Labron will need his rest for the finals.

Watching all the playoff games the player that stands out among many great stars is Leonard. He is bringing the ball up the court. Did you see that Stan Van Gundy? The Spurs didn't have a point guard who dribbled around for 15 seconds before the half court offense is initiated. Leonard makes everything look so easy. His ball handling skills are really good which makes me think of Pope and how he hasn't improved yet in that area. Pope might be a much better player if he had worked more using both hands and adding a change of pace off the dribble. Leonard is a great defender with unlimited energy.

The other guy I have always really liked but not in the came class of Leonard is George Hill who is getting older but George is really a smart player. I would love to see the Pistons obtain a younger version of George Hill. We desperately need a smarter higher basketball IQ type of point guard when the rebuild takes place. It sure is refreshing to watch games in the playoffs now where our team the Detroit Pistons are not playing. I am so damn tired of the mindless style of offense and the inept lazy defense we witnessed all season long.

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Lions

Post  Sparma on Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:41 am

Looks like a solid, but not spectacular draft for the Lions through 3 rounds. Quinn really seems to draft on fit, more so than on simply accruing the best talent. Maybe we'll see more of a BPA strategy today, when you can't really count on folks from the later rounds sticking, so that more gambling might make sense. He's at least got to go for DL and RB though, right? His draft strategy worked well last year, with almost everyone making it through the season, some with crucial roles. Fingers crossed. So far looks like a "B" draft, but one that might end up making a ton of sense if most of the pieces fit.
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Bombs Away People.......

Post  WTF on Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:49 pm

This Turd needs to be blown to pieces.

This organization needs to quickly get into a WIN NOW MODE!!!! Keep Andre if we must keep Morris and Harris if possible then put some solid second tier talented players around them, draft smartly and if nothing else be able to at least contend/pretend the next 3 to 4 season that a NBA Title is actually possible.

There is opprtunities and though many would find reasons not to short term a lot could make since. Is Blake Griffin worth a risk or some similar player under similar circumstances? I mean just maybe we can catch a star player that needs a second wind in there career just imagine if we could put Blake and Melo in a line up with Andre and simply add a competent PG.

Sure it's a risk and might not even be possible but these are the lines this team need to be thinking IJS!!!!!!!!!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:19 pm

Oracle wrote:
Don wrote:Oracle sometimes you make a lot of sense and other times you almost shock me with your off base comments. This time it was about your opinion on the Bucks. Did you watch the first two games of the series between the Bucks and Toronto? Did you watch this last game where the young Bucks made up a 25 point deficit to take the lead towards the end of the 4th quarter? Everything was going wrong and especially with luck for the Bucks. The shots were not falling. They missed 8 free throws

Yes I did see ALL of the games, and the difference I saw is the same difference I see when our Pistons play! News Flash for you: If the shots are falling, they usually win!

But you're shocked???

Try listening to yourself  lol lol lol

When the Bucks miss shots and FT's, it's BAD LUCK, but when we miss them we're dumb gutless players... ouch! Amazing how your standard can shift when you want it to!

They have the same problem we have, they just have ONE good shooter and we have 1/2 Very Happy

BTW, I'm still waiting for you to explain how any of you solutions are supposed to be good for us when SVG, the guy you appear to dislike more than Larry Brown is still running the show. I'd be shocked if you stop watching, you're too big a basketball fan and Piston fan to do that. I could believe that you wouldn't shell out money for League Pass if the offseason doesn't produce any hope, but I may be doing the same too Smile

The difference between the Pistons and Bucks are huge. They have better players in every position. They have a center in Maker who had no idea how to play basketball in the summer league but has such an incredible learning curve that he now knows where to be on defense including getting to the baseline to set up for a charge when drivers attempt to drive on the weak side. He gets there faster than any player I have ever seen play the game with the exception of Ben Wallace. He wants to get into proper position and doesn't care if it takes hard work. He boxes out on the defensive boards really well and thinks about anticipating where the ball will come off the rim and then positions himself for the box out. He has a really nice long stroke from beyond the 3 point line too. And have you seen him spread his legs out in the paint and then take those tiny steps you need to take so you can react to the offensive player who is thinking about getting into the paint. I am amazing with that guy who played high school ball before arriving on the Bucks. Maker also shoots free throws well with solid technique. Kevin Garnett did a fantastic job with Maker but you have to credit Maker for being so receptive to learning how to play the right way and then come in with incredible energy. All the young guys are long and lean with great quickness and fantastic hunger. It isn't at all like you might think Oracle. The Bucks have players that can execute the mid range game too. And they have a great young point guard who gets his team in proper floor spacing and distributes the basketball at the right time and place. Then he sticks on his assigned opponent on defense like glue and doesn't lose his concentration. It is difficult to post him unlike our two dysfunctional point guards when they attempt to play defense. The Bucks have secured some high draft picks and free agents and now all they have to do is wait for those players to learn how to beat up on the old guys. And the Greek is the next Labron James as Reggie Miller likes to point out. The energy and extreme will to win is there in these Bucks players. So the big difference came out in this playoff series with this young Bucks team. They never gave up. The energy stayed the same even when they couldn't make a shot. There is a blend of players that click well and it is not just two players but all of them. They will get a lot better and compete for a championship. It might take a few years but they will be in the finals.

The Detroit Pistons have players who do give up in stressful situations. The starters gave up often in the first quarter of games. The Pistons have only one player in Harris that has developed a mid range game. The team only thinks about the 3 point shot. Why didn't SVG go out and sign Charlie V? That is the type of player he likes. The energy is gone if everything doesn't go perfectly in hitting the 3 point shots. If you can't obtain top level talent to shoot a high percentage from long range, then you are going to lose again and again under SVG's leadership and game plan. His plan wouldn't work even if he had some great shooters if those players were no threat to drive or hit mid range shots and move without the basketball. No thought went into securing players who have multiple skills on offense. But the biggest crusher of all is SVG's attitude towards playing defense. And all we hear now is that the defense improved from a year ago. In what way did the defense improve in crunch time? He banks everything on making the 3 and the point guards dribbling around and trying to penetrate and at times execute the pick and roll with Drummond. No thought at all was placed on building a team with a solid defense. You need the right players to have a good defense that can stop teams in crunch time or even in the first quarter of games. He has no shot blocker. He has no power forward with defensive skills. He has no center with defensive skills. I believe Stanley Johnson is the best defender on the team but SVG has somehow ruined his spirit. He was used to playing team orientated basketball with others who enjoyed playing defense. The dysfunctional point guards are not fun to play basketball with when it comes to going side by side on defense. You can't count on either Jackson or Smith to do the right thing.

It is difficult to sign good free agents in Piston land. So the only way you can do it is to lose big so you secure top draft picks. Stan wanted to win now or my best guess is that his goal was just to make the playoffs and make a ton of money and then get out. This is his last stop before retirement. He should retire now and not make the team any worse. If he doesn't go this season then several of his assistant coaches need to go this summer. The assistant coach who coaches the guards should be fired. We need a better big man coach as well. The shooting coach might as well be fired because players are not forced to listen to him like the guy who killed the franchise, Andre Drummond.

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J. J. Redick

Post  Oracle on Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:29 pm

He'll be leaving the Clippers after they likely get eliminated tonight, but this guy can at least shoot the lights out and is a former SVG player.

The Clippers are cash strapped, or will be once they re-sign Paul, so I wonder if there is a sign & trade possibility there.

Can Redick even start anymore? He's 32, so not totally over the hill, but not in our core, so it may not be worth it, but he certainly would stretch the floor.
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Don

Post  Oracle on Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:28 pm

Don wrote:Oracle sometimes you make a lot of sense and other times you almost shock me with your off base comments. This time it was about your opinion on the Bucks. Did you watch the first two games of the series between the Bucks and Toronto? Did you watch this last game where the young Bucks made up a 25 point deficit to take the lead towards the end of the 4th quarter? Everything was going wrong and especially with luck for the Bucks. The shots were not falling. They missed 8 free throws

Yes I did see ALL of the games, and the difference I saw is the same difference I see when our Pistons play! News Flash for you: If the shots are falling, they usually win!

But you're shocked???

Try listening to yourself  lol lol lol

When the Bucks miss shots and FT's, it's BAD LUCK, but when we miss them we're dumb gutless players... ouch! Amazing how your standard can shift when you want it to!

They have the same problem we have, they just have ONE good shooter and we have 1/2 Very Happy

BTW, I'm still waiting for you to explain how any of you solutions are supposed to be good for us when SVG, the guy you appear to dislike more than Larry Brown is still running the show. I'd be shocked if you stop watching, you're too big a basketball fan and Piston fan to do that. I could believe that you wouldn't shell out money for League Pass if the offseason doesn't produce any hope, but I may be doing the same too Smile
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:04 pm

Oracle wrote:@DX - The single most important question, which Don dodges, for obvious reasons, is if SVG is running the show, then nothing anybody says about who to get, who to draft, or how to run the team matters, he's the guy none of you trust! I still trust him, while admitting he made a bunch of mistakes that I'm sure he will correct.

@Don - Well, since you picked up the 3 point stuff out of context, you've proved you can read, so your problem is the other one I mentioned.

If the Nets offer KCP the max, they're dumber than I think they are, KCP is NOT a max player by any stretch. And if they did offer him the max, SVG will not, I repeat NOT match that offer! You tip your hat and pray that the Nets will do a sign and trade, but if they don't this team will suffer MAJOR damage, which is hard for you to understand I know, but let me spell it out anyway.

If there is no sign and trade for KCP, we lose a good player making less than 3M, so we're still in Lux payroll territory and can't do a damn thing about upgrading the position. We can't go over safely to sign anyone other than KCP, which is that thing you don't like... LOGIC, which would allow us to  sign him and move him later.

Then there is the movie you've seen before that no matter how many times you see it, you still don't understand the plot.

If KCP gets disrespected by the Pistons NOT wanting to pay him after all of the effort and promises, he takes the  Monroe route, stays one more year and walks anyway. Then we have no value and still have a high payroll.

All of this happens because we're not wise enough to understand the financial wisdom of doing something to create value then using that value... I don't think SVG is that dumb!

Oracle KCP is a rotation player at best and is not good enough to be a starter. He is not young either according to NBA standards. What do you think Stan will pay for his services? Stan has promised he will match any offer. What do you know that makes you think he won't do it? I think he can easily be replaced. We have a losing team he has not been a game changer after playing excessive minutes for years. The team is doomed until Drummond and Jackson are gone. By that time KCP will be an aging man in basketball terms. I would just let him go and wish him luck. If a sign and trade could happen, that would be great. What will happen though is that the amazing Stan Van Gundy will sign Pope for a bargain price of $16 million/year for 4 years. Then we will see Pope playing 34 minutes a game for years to come. Won't that be fun? Who would want to take that contract any more than Drummond's or Jackson's contracts? I like Larry Bird's approach. He says he doesn't know if he can afford to keep Teague. Is Teague worth what his agent is asking? Meanwhile, Jeff Teague is a good point guard and has far exceeded anything Pope has done since he arrived. Pope is used to playing on losing teams. He won't be a problem of course. He will take the money and go home at night very happy. We fans will be the losers. Then SVG will be fired and someone new will try to unload all our dysfunctional players who have been built up as the 2nd coming. Oracle every GM in the league knows Pope's strengths and weaknesses with the exception of Stan Van Gundy. They know he is not even an average ball handler. They know he cannot stop dribble penetration against starting caliber 2 guards or point guards he often is asked to play against because our point guards are the worst defenders in the league. Pope hasn't developed a mid range game on offense. He is not a good 3 point shooter by any standards. He takes too many shots that are contested especially 3 point attempts at big moments. Pope makes bad decisions in crunch time. Pope can't finish at the rim. Pope has no change of pace in his offensive game. The list is long. Can Pope solve any of those issues or does he want to solve them? Regardless of what SVG says, if you sign him you could be stuck with him if the deal backfires like it has with Drummond and Jackson. Those players had a long list of issues as well that SVG ignored. Sometimes is is better to not over think relating to NBA players. Just keeping things simple and judging how well the player stacks up against other successful NBA players tells the truth and the path a GM should take.If the player shows greatness consistently then you much try to keep that player. We have none of those Oracle.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:36 pm

Oracle wrote:This is some funny stuff.

@Don - There he goes again, "Oracle you do not have to have a crystal ball to determine the proper direction this team should go.", damn Don, how many times do I have to keep telling you that was the point of my post the first time you got confused... Wow!

I don't know if you can't read or can't understand, but while I know I don't have a crystal ball, you continue to believe that you do. All while never answering the single most important question I've posed, and the only question anybody wanting change has to ask themselves.

@Ballin/@Don - Enough of the Bucks love! This is a crap team that didn't even have a winning record and got exposed in the playoffs with their major collapse! Do they have some nice pieces? Yes, and they looked good in the playoffs until the Raptors found out how bad they really were and snatched back home court and proceeded to wax those chumps.

@Ballin - Yes we needed more 3 point shooting and Toliver would have helped, but let me understand the current logic on this forum, not just you , but quite a few.

1. You have ONLY one player on your team that improved his 3 point shooting percentage - KCP
2. That same player single handedly won more games for the team on his own than any other player - KCP
But that player is the problem? I don't care what anyone's opinion is, but the logic should make some sense

On another front:
1. This team displayed heart and smarts last year in the playoffs
2. But now they can't do that anymore because of what?

So now they're not only gutless, but stupid as well?

I can feel the frustration and anger over the mismanagement of this season, but I'm you Bro and I'm trying to talk, at least a few of you, off the ledge lol lol lol

Oracle sometimes you make a lot of sense and other times you almost shock me with your off base comments. This time it was about your opinion on the Bucks. Did you watch the first two games of the series between the Bucks and Toronto? Did you watch this last game where the young Bucks made up a 25 point deficit to take the lead towards the end of the 4th quarter? Everything was going wrong and especially with luck for the Bucks. The shots were not falling. They missed 8 free throws. Yet did they let up or give up? Did their coach flop his arms in disgust when his young players made mistakes or missed free throws? No Kidd didn't show any emotion and was calm only encouraging his players during time outs and giving them ideas on how they could be more effective instead of yelling at them like SVG. Jason Kidd was proud of the effort he saw which was amazing to watch. The Bucks played two rookies at starters. The point guard had played a great game scoring 18 points in the previous game but couldn't knock down a shot to save his life in last night's game. But Brogdon still played smart and worked his ass off on defense. He found open shooters too instead of dribbling around probing the defense on his own. Did you see the Bucks fans going crazy with love for those players? By the way the team was playing without one of their injured stars too. Yes they have several players who are amazing. The Bucks have everything our Pistons do not have moving forward. Anyone would be an idiot to say otherwise. They have better players in every position with a super star player who is only 22 years old. They will become the best defensive team since the old Bulls team led by Michael Jordan if they can keep this young core and do not sustain major injuries. Toronto had to play the best they have ever played in the playoffs in their entire history to beat the Bucks. And one 2nd year player on their team made all the difference referring to Powell. I see no Piston player who could have made the rotation on either team except Harris. The most incredible part of that last game was the play of the 39 year old Jason Terry. He is a guy who was such a great teammate as a young kid that he sacrificed for his college team for 3 years agreeing to come off the bench even though he was a key player on a NCAA championship team. Jason stayed in college after all of his great teammates left and became a fantastic leader on an average team that far exceeded expectations. Terry was MVP of the PAC10 and moved on to the NBA to struggle for a few years until he became a key player on Dallas to win a NBA championship ring. This season Jason Kidd brought Terry aboard because Jason knows that Terry is one of the best players of all time in building fantastic team chemistry. He loves basketball, helps others, and works hard even at age 39. What he did for the Bucks rookie point guard is incredible this year. And in the 4th quarter of this last game, Jason Terry looked like he was 22 years old. His feet were moving so fast on defense he couldn't help but get steals and a ton of deflections that let to steals to kick start that team back from the 25 point deficit. Then when none of his teammates could score, Jason calmly drained several 3 point shots including the last one that put the Bucks into the lead in the closing moments of the game. I have never seen a NBA player who was still an active player that could have that type of impact on a playoff game. The Bucks are exciting and fun to watch and next season at full strength and having this experience, watch out.

Meanwhile the Pistons will still have no player who can do one thing really well. Piston fans will be wondering why KCP is making $20 mil, Drummond is making $24 mil, and Jackson in excess of $16 mil while still having the worst team chemistry in the NBA and trying hard to not get blown out in the first quarter. The Bucks players will respond to coach Kidd who loves his players and will still be the same calm guy who knows how to keep things simple so his players can have fun playing basketball. Piston fan who still watch this lousy team will see Stan Van Gundy flopping his arms showing great emotion and yelling at his young players in front of the fans. Instead of watching what is going on in the game, Stan will continue to turn his back and rant to the guys sitting on the bench. He will miss the action when Jackson dribbles down the court and launches a three point shot. The Piston players who never touch the ball will jog back on defense when the shot is missed and wait until the season ends to put them out of their misery. But Stan can't figure out why his team has such bad team chemistry. Detroit will get the 12th draft pick and nothing will happen before the trade deadline which seems to always be the most exciting part of every Piston season. We wait and hope that we won't have to watch Stan's players anymore but damn nothing happens. Every team in the league really want our losers but Stan just won't trade them, There is just too much potential. Andre will only be 25 years old too. By the way, Pope is no young chicken. He is at his peak yet there are so many defects for a guy who has played so many minutes. Let him go for nothing. Let Drummond go and pay part of his salary. Let Jackson go and pay part of his salary. Now that is a start in the right direction.

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Don & DX

Post  Oracle on Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:17 pm

@DX - The single most important question, which Don dodges, for obvious reasons, is if SVG is running the show, then nothing anybody says about who to get, who to draft, or how to run the team matters, he's the guy none of you trust! I still trust him, while admitting he made a bunch of mistakes that I'm sure he will correct.

@Don - Well, since you picked up the 3 point stuff out of context, you've proved you can read, so your problem is the other one I mentioned.

If the Nets offer KCP the max, they're dumber than I think they are, KCP is NOT a max player by any stretch. And if they did offer him the max, SVG will not, I repeat NOT match that offer! You tip your hat and pray that the Nets will do a sign and trade, but if they don't this team will suffer MAJOR damage, which is hard for you to understand I know, but let me spell it out anyway.

If there is no sign and trade for KCP, we lose a good player making less than 3M, so we're still in Lux payroll territory and can't do a damn thing about upgrading the position. We can't go over safely to sign anyone other than KCP, which is that thing you don't like... LOGIC, which would allow us to  sign him and move him later.

Then there is the movie you've seen before that no matter how many times you see it, you still don't understand the plot.

If KCP gets disrespected by the Pistons NOT wanting to pay him after all of the effort and promises, he takes the  Monroe route, stays one more year and walks anyway. Then we have no value and still have a high payroll.

All of this happens because we're not wise enough to understand the financial wisdom of doing something to create value then using that value... I don't think SVG is that dumb!
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Something smells when the reason why you would sign a player of Pope's skill level to a $15 to 20 million dollar contract is due to his 3 point shooting percentage on this horrible team

Post  cool breeze on Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:42 pm

SVG creates a story line or myth and reporters buy it maybe if Stan picks up the check at an expensive dinner outing. Just to bring the mindless fans who follow the dictates of management (PT Barnum said a sucker is born every minute) one only has to go back to the past where there was an outcry relating to how bad the starting small forward was a few years back. Remember Kyle Singler who averaged a higher shooting percentage on a rookie contract than any player who has played the same position or any position since he was traded. Didn't Singler with all of his alleged defect average over 40% from the 3?

How many other players since departed at other positions were actually better players than the players Van Gundy is paying big money for now? Moose is a better player than Drummond in every respect. Let's take the center position. Greg Monroe is a better player in every respect especially relating to effort these days. He signed a big contract but nothing like Andre's contract. Monroe comes off the bench. Jason Kidd believes that the high school kid Maker is a better option as starter than Monroe. So where would Drummond stack up on the young Bucks team? He would be the 3rd option or 4th option on Kidd's team because he is a horrible defender. Monroe has been forced to step up his defense although in the last 4 games of this playoff series Monroe reverted to some of the same mistakes he made in Detroit as a defender. But Monroe so much better than Drummond it is silly. While Drummond maintains his status as the worst free throw shooter in the NBA and history of the league, I checked his free throw percentage when he was in college for one season. Guess what are you shocked to find out that he shot.295% from the free throw line? Also, this is another red flag relating to Andre Drummond relating to his ability to prepare mentally to play basketball when it counts. His college team, UCONN made the NCAA tournament and lost in the first game to Iowa State. Andre fouled out after 26 minutes and scored 2 points being a non factor in that game. Now after this depressing season watching the current Andre who has a little more body fat since he signed the big contract, management can't trade him so they tell us his potential is still off the charts because he is now only 24 years old. This 24 year old shows us he doesn't really care about his team or playing the right way with the mediocre effort and attitude his history reveals there is no way to go but downward for him and the Pistons.

How about the guards we current see representing the Pistons? How does Jackson or Smith compare with Will Bynum or any of the point guards since Billups was traded? Bynum, Smith and Jackson play the same way. they dominate the basketball. That creates horrible team chemistry. Players who play with those three guys never know what is coming off on offense because the point guards are all about probing the defense to find their own shot. And all three are in the category of horrible defenders. Check this playoffs where the game becomes very physical and imagine the two current point guards holding up playing against strong bigger athletic point guards who can really dish out punishment. No if Jason Kidd, Isiah Thomas, Bill Laimbeer would take over SVG's job, the first thing they would do is get rid of our point guards even if they had to play a point forward type of style which is what Detroit should have gone to this season if they didn't want to play Beno.

We have no NBA quality power forward. Harris is a small forward who doesn't get to play that position because Morris is "UNTOUCHABLE". This is what the reporters are saying. Yet when Marcus played with the Suns he was identified as at best a rotation player while his brother was identified as a much better player than Marcus. Maybe Marcus is UNTOUCHABLE due to the lack of talent on this team now. But I think he is only untouchable because he is the only starter who is not over paid. But Marcus is not guy who should ever be a starter. He cannot operate very well off the dribble when he is playing on the weak side. He doesn't pass the basketball much. He struggles defending small forwards. Marcus is caught in between positions. He is not big or strong enough to defend power forwards or quick enough to guard small forwards. He does have one ingredient that his teammates lack and that is courage and fight. That makes up for a lot but doesn't make him a guy you think of as untouchable. He prevents the younger guys from securing experience too but that doesn't matter to SVG. He hates playing the young players.

So the story lines will all be about KCP. His shooting percentage from the 3 point line is so good that management has stated they will match any offer. If I were the Nets GM I would offer KCP a max contract and force SVG to match it which would kill off another team the Nets play as they try to move up. Does anyone think that GMs give a crap what SVG says relating to his threats to match any offer? They laugh at him because that is a stupid statement to make. Meanwhile, SVG is working on more offensive plays for Leuer this summer. Everything is fine. Jackson is going to shock us.

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Re: FORUM

Post  deusXango on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:31 pm

No trade deadline moves...we chose to stand pat...no second round draft picks, and confused as hell what to do with our only first round pick...what's the plan going forward? If we had the 3rd pick in this years draft, who do you think SVG would target? Will/is "Van Bower" be acquiring any additional picks or do we hold to this delusional idea that we're going to sign/trade for a superstar FA? We've only signed mediocre and drafted players that we don't play...we draft for the Drive. Well, we do have the confidence that Reggie's going to come back from his "injury" and terrorize the NBA with he and Andre's famed P & R...the only reason we didn't make the playoffs this year was due to:
-Reggie being less than 100%
-Andre's inability to make FT's and guard the interior and perimeter...he wouldn't block shots either!
-Harris's inability to shot 3's like Klay Thompson
-Stanley's ugly jump shot and lack of highflying highlights
-then there was that damn "players only" meeting...what could've been accomplished with that?
-Ish and Beno spoiling the teams flow by playing up tempo, and unselfish basketball
Yeah, when Reggie returns to form, things will be different.
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DX

Post  Oracle on Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:28 pm

At the risk of telling you something you already know, in America, it's not what something should cost, it's how much the market will bear.

There are a lot of players getting paid more than we think they should, but if we say they shouldn't get that much, to be consistent, we should say that the owners shouldn't be making so much, but I've never heard that.

The bigger point is that, IMO, we simply can't afford KCP where we are, that's a business decision, not the one everybody else tries to make, which generally searches for something, anything wrong in his game as an excuse while never applying that same standard to any other player on the team. Sort of what you did, by comparing him to a star, deciding he falls short of the mythical standard you set all by yourself, then having setup your strawman, you proceed to tear him down with anger, when a simple business decision was all that's needed.

On Ellenson, I really like this kid and believe that if developed properly will be better than Leuer some day, but that day isn't today and it likely won't be next season because he doesn't know anything and has absolutely no experience since he didn't get to play this year.

It's a risk because we're dreaming with almost no evidence, but this is one of the calculated risks I'd be willing to take.

Finally, nobody here seems to understand the stakes we're dealing with, with KCP. If we handle this wrong, it can do major damage to this team, and you all should have seen this movie before!
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