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Oracle

Post  Sparma on Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:39 am

It's interesting that in the comments section of the article you cite a couple people berate the TWolves should they make the trade, while another person can't believe the Pistons would do.  I think that such sharply divided opinions as to who would get the better of the deal suggests it might be a balanced, realistic, trade possibility.  Minny's motivated to get rid of Rubio, for sure, with Dunn emerging; I have trouble believing they'd want Jackson though.  Not a Thibs kind of player with his defensive mentality that Lemonpen described so eloquently recently (saving energy on the defensive end, so that he can be ball and shot dominant on the offensive end). I think there'd need to be a 3rd team.
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Like Minds???

Post  Oracle on Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:28 am

Sparma wrote:I don't get a statement cited at freep: "On Wednesday, ESPN's Zach Lowe mentioned Jackson in a feature on the New Orleans Pelicans, writing: "Let's just say there is a disagreement between the Pistons and every team they've talked to about the level of Jackson's availability.""

Does that mean that the Pistons are asked too much so that other teams don't see him as truly available?

I'm intrigued by the Jackson-Rubio rumor, particularly if it's part of a larger, multiplayer, deal.   It would need to be a 3 teamer, I think, with Minnesota having a young PG in waiting.  Also, Rubio's non-shooting could be a terrible fit in Detroit given SVG's offensive design.

Still, I like the idea if only because I think it's Reggie more than anyone else setting the low ceiling for the Pistons.  Significant restructuring would require getting rid of him (or AD, which is unlikely to happen).
Exactly what I think, and that's the conclusion of Raja Bell in that video.
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Report: Wolves, Pistons discussing Ricky Rubio for Reggie Jackson trade

Post  Oracle on Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:25 am

Listen to RIP & Raja discuss the issue with Reggie... very illuminating as many here have noted!

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-wolves-pistons-discussing-ricky-rubio-for-reggie-jackson-trade/
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Jackson trade?

Post  Sparma on Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:25 am

I don't get a statement cited at freep: "On Wednesday, ESPN's Zach Lowe mentioned Jackson in a feature on the New Orleans Pelicans, writing: "Let's just say there is a disagreement between the Pistons and every team they've talked to about the level of Jackson's availability.""

Does that mean that the Pistons are asking too much so that other teams don't see him as truly available? Or maybe that other teams see Reggie as eminently available, even though the Pistons claim/ pretend that he isn't?

I'm intrigued by the Jackson-Rubio rumor, particularly if it's part of a larger, multiplayer, deal.   It would need to be a 3 teamer, I think, with Minnesota having a young PG in waiting.  Also, Rubio's non-shooting could be a terrible fit in Detroit given SVG's offensive design.

Still, I like the idea if only because I think it's Reggie more than anyone else setting the low ceiling for the Pistons.  Significant roster restructuring would require getting rid of him (or AD, which is unlikely to happen). Rubio could be a good transitional guy (2 years left after this), a great passer and much more committed to D than Jackson.


Last edited by Sparma on Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Breaking News!!!

Post  Oracle on Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:31 pm

BREAKING: The Secret Service has shot and killed another time traveler, bringing today’s total to 873. #InaugurationDay
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Don't Laugh

Post  WTF on Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:54 pm

Oracle wrote:
Wise wrote:I want to see a streak of these type of wins. Honestly just hard to say if it was us or just them having one of those games and them being due to lose one.


I had to laugh when I saw that, because you know it isn't true.


It happened with Jennings, we ran off an amazing streak, but you didn't believe it.

It happened with Ish, we again ran off another amazing streak, but you didn't believe it.

But now, through some magic, if they run off a streak now, you'll believe it???

I'll believe that when I see it lol lol lol lol lol

Yep I sure will Oracle how any sustained win streaks have we seen this season. I'm not talking about of the 3-4 game variety either. Let not forget the team is under .500 so they have had likely more streaks in the opposite direction. Now they have some games coming up where they can run off 7-8 wins and perhaps find themselves solidify as 4th or 5th seed considering all goes wrong elsewhere meaning other teams start sliding. .
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Wise, you're too funny...

Post  Oracle on Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:39 pm

Wise wrote:I want to see a streak of these type of wins. Honestly just hard to say if it was us or just them having one of those games and them being due to lose one.


I had to laugh when I saw that, because you know it isn't true.


It happened with Jennings, we ran off an amazing streak, but you didn't believe it.

It happened with Ish, we again ran off another amazing streak, but you didn't believe it.

But now, through some magic, if they run off a streak now, you'll believe it???

I'll believe that when I see it lol lol lol lol lol
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They're Not Competitive

Post  WTF on Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:40 am

Yeah wouldn't be nice too see Andre go pick a fight with Cousins, Whiteside, Howard and a few others. Talk a little smack on and off the court and then go back it up on the court. I can go back and think about all the little wars that went on not just at Andre's position but all of them. Zeke and Magic is a perfect example:

Yeah the NBA heads soften up the league but this stuff is ridiculous facepalm

I love Lebron's game but I'm not all that sure if he would have been tough enough mentally to play the 80's game he certainly have the talent but I honestly can see Rodman taking his candy on a regular.

I'm curious to know just how the Top 10 of each NBA draft of the 80's and 90's matches up with the last 10 years of this generation. How many stars (Super or All) were produced from each era. Especially the amount of time it took them to get there. I ask that because I really don't recall many of them not having immediate success once getting to the pro's. Nowadays every players a project or we're waiting 4-5 seasons hoping they reach their potential.

Let Me Put On My Researcher Cap and see what I can come up with.
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Fizzle no Fire

Post  BallinD on Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:14 am

Great Post WTF

WTF wrote:
I'll always go back to when KCP first got here and in his presser he said in so many words that his dream began and ended in just being able to put on a uniform.   We never here these players talk about winning Championships because they live from game to game and have no long term vision.  Imagine how sweet it would have sounded when Andre signed his deal to hear him say he's his signature comes with a championship.
WTF, I hear you.  I watched an interview with Andre when we drafted him and he talked about how he was a late bloomer to basketball and never expected to be an NBA player when he was playing high school ball because he was just big and clumsy.  He said to him it was a miracle to just be in the NBA His college year was underwhelming, so here we are.  Possibly at best, a very late bloomer, IMHO

Most Baby-boomers likely feel the same as I do excepts those still trying to hold on to their youth knows this game sucks. There are some that excepts it as being it is what it is.  How we go from Zeke's and Grant comments to that of KCP's speak volumes about today's generation of players.  
IMO, there's a lot of talent, but the heart and competitiveness is lacking the 80s fire. Friendships were challenged and even lost (Zeke n Magic), but now as you say it is almost like a circus. All the threes and Dunks.
Man when Zeke said he was bringing us a title we all believed it, now all we get is fans  and media making excuses for the **** we get from players.  Effort was never an issues in the 80's hell not even in the 90's and 2004 showed us what effort can do.     I hope Andre see know that you just can't get by on talent to be an All Star and Super Star you need to be a freaking winner and to be a winner takes effort and hard work, and not excuses.   Just because the fan base praise your sorry ass doesn't mean the rest of the league fans will.   
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PLENTY OF FUEL JUST NOTHING TO IGNITE IT (It's called a heart)

Post  WTF on Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:38 am

BallinD wrote:No surprise, no Pistons on the all start team; none deserve it and I hope this will light a fire under Dre who has languished amid all the turmoil, turning it on and leaving it off when it suits him.  Hopefully he will learn that he has to keep the pedal to the metal as much as possible.

This no superstar in Detroit thing is getting a bit old though.  None on the horizon, unless we can steal a pick or SVBower can rob somebody, extremely unlikely.

That being said, it should be an exciting finish to the year as we have already entered the stretch run.




BallinD, there is so much fuel the Palace should have hazard signs all over it. Sure the motivation of every player should be in simply wanting to be the best. Hard to do when you;re prematurely award big contracts or tag franchise players, and reading hyperbole press clippings.

How about just wanting to win and become a Champion isn't that the ultimate goal? That should collectively fuel the entire team, from player, coach management and ownership. It's tons of fuel for them!!!!! Sadly they don't give a **** because they really don't respect the game anymore.

I'll always go back to when KCP first got here and in his presser he said in so many words that his dream began and ended in just being able to put on a uniform. We never here these players talk about winning Championships because they live from game to game and have no long term vision. Imagine how sweet it would have sounded when Andre signed his deal to hear him say he's his signature comes with a championship.

Lets think back on the handful of Superstars we did have one that delivered a championship and one that didn't. Zekes goal from the moment he got here was to lead this team, this city a championship and he did. Though Grant Hill never got one he certainly wasn't here thinking any less than Zeke.

Okay I'm writing more than I originally planned to but this is why I'm so freaking hard on this team, these players and the NBA as a whole. It's not that I'm Old School, its not that I think the 80's was the best (It Was) it's because something was loss along the way. As coolbreeze would say it, we went from a sport to a circus act I guess good thing since them real circus is closing in a few months.

Most Baby-boomers likely feel the same as I do excepts those still trying to hold on to their youth knows this game sucks. There are some that excepts it as being it is what it is. How we go from Zeke's and Grant comments to that of KCP's speak volumes about today's generation of players. Man when Zeke said he was bringing us a title we all believed it, now all we get is fans and media making excuses for the **** we get from players. Effort was never an issues in the 80's hell not even in the 90's and 2004 showed us what effort can do. I hope Andre see know that you just can't get by on talent to be an All Star and Super Star you need to be a freaking winner and to be a winner takes effort and hard work, and not excuses. Just because the fan base praise your sorry ass doesn't mean the rest of the league fans will. Just know this big man Ewing wanted to be better than Akeem, Akeem wanted to be better Kareem, Kareem wanted be better than Russell, Shaq wanted to be better than all of them. You like some of your other team mates are just happy putting on the uniform and not putting the work.

OKAY I'm done.......tb
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Fuel for the Fire

Post  BallinD on Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:19 pm

No surprise, no Pistons on the all start team; none deserve it and I hope this will light a fire under Dre who has languished amid all the turmoil, turning it on and leaving it off when it suits him. Hopefully he will learn that he has to keep the pedal to the metal as much as possible.

This no superstar in Detroit thing is getting a bit old though. None on the horizon, unless we can steal a pick or SVBower can rob somebody, extremely unlikely.

That being said, it should be an exciting finish to the year as we have already entered the stretch run.



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JUST A WIN

Post  WTF on Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:45 pm

I want to see a streak of these type of wins. Honestly just hard to say if it was us or just them having one of those games and them being due to lose one.

It was entertaining nonetheless but that doesn't mean we don't need a great amount change and serious upgrading on this roster.
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Phillip, I feel the same way, but...

Post  Oracle on Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:22 pm

@Phillip: If Reggie can keep doing what he did most of last night, I'd consider letting him play out his contract until we found a better option, then if he came off the bench, I would be good with that.

But he does have issues that, IMO, will get a lot worse with age, and that you can't have in a championship guard! If he was a better person, I might look past some of it, but he really isn't.

Atlanta Game: This game was HUGE if it finally gets Reggie on the same page as the rest of the team. In sports, EVERYTHING is contagious! Bad play, good play, losing, winning, hot shooting, poor shooting... just about everything.

If we start moving the ball, finding the open man, making cuts and getting in position to back door, everybody wants in on the action, and you get a very active team.

That was the ultimate Ish effect, and if Reggie can follow suit, we're going to win a lot more games!

BTW, the big thing to me wasn't the fact that they built up a big lead, it was that they kept it big! Mentally that's hard to do for a team that's showed no killer instinct, but they did last night. I hope that continues, when you get them down, keep them down!
Phil1980boy wrote:I can't speak for anybody else on this forum but I'm so over Reggie Jackson.

Reggie has some serious red flags concerning his health. His asthma, his constant dehydration issues, his knee and finger issues. The fact that Jackson decided to address his knee issue during the season instead of in the summer when he and Paul George were on vacation.

I understand Van Gundy wanting to stick with this group but don't hang on to Jackson too long.

The key is for Stan to ride Reggie for A short period of time while scowling the F.U.C.K.I.N.G universe for his replacement. lol

That's my advice....

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Good To See

Post  BallinD on Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:15 pm

Bullock playing the right way, hopefully it will continue to be contagious, plus great D. He's always been one of my favorite Pistons, just snakebit a bit! Stanimal, another good game staying in his lane, which continues to get wider for him.

Reggie got the message for a quarter. If Pass First for one quarter or two a game ferom RJax is the best we're gonna get, I'll take it till we can dump him for some nice talent or a couple of picks, or that savvy vet we need.

Love Drummond's post passing.

Did anybody remember that one play where Dre took it from the top of the key and attacked the rim with a thunderdunk! (he missed the dunk, was fouled). That is the angry engaged Andre I want to see.

I hope SVG is shopping Baynes!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:02 am

KaySlay wrote:We are playing amazing! Anyone see why? Reggie was moving the ball on every possession. That and Tobias is on fire with 15 points in the quarter. How about Morris with those alley oop finds to Drums? On pace for 168 points? What dimension am I in?

KaySlay you can bet that coach SVG has had some serious discussions with both of the Piston point guards before the team practiced from the last game until they met Atlanta. It all started with the first Piston offensive possession in the first quarter when Reggie Jackson quickly brought the ball up the court and made the first pass to Andre Drummond and then cut to the opposite baseline. I watched the shot clock when that first pass was made by Reggie and I think there was still 20 seconds left in the shot clock. Then all of the players moved without the ball and the ball started going from side to side. Then when Detroit went on defense I noticed that Reggie was really concentrating on staying in front of his assigned man. All of the players were set up properly and ready to defend. From that point on for at least the first quarter, the Pistons played beautiful team orientated basketball. Andre Drummond stood at the free throw line and made some outstanding passes to the cutters. Reggie Jackson looked like a real point guard. The result was the Pistons had their best offensive production of the entire season. The team showed that they actually could execute what the coaches wanted them to do on both ends. They ran some designed plays instead of just playing their typical wild street basketball that is mind numbing for me.

This was a really good win but don't get too excited because midway through the 2nd quarter, everything seemed to change with the Piston offense. I thought the team reverted right back to playing their previous inept style where the point guards didn't get the offense started until there was only around 14 seconds left in the shot clock and the movement stopped while players started shooting those low percentage outside shots without moving the basketball inside out or side to side. In the last minute of the first half when SVG once again played both Smith and jackson together. With around 45 seconds to go in the first half the two point guards managed to screw up everything the team had worked on in practice. When you have a large lead why would you shoot the basketball from beyond the 3 point line with 15 seconds left in the shot clock. Opps that one missed. Atlanta gets a long rebound and goes down and hits a 3 point shot. Then the team got it back again but Smith launched an air ball with 19 seconds left in the shot clock. Who would do that unless you have an extremely low basketball IQ? Atlanta gets the ball back and a player is fouled and goes to the foul line. What a way to end a great half of basketball. By the way both Jackson and Smith slacked off on defense after the first quarter.

Our Pistons shot the lights out in this game. They played with great style for one quarter on both ends. That is a start but the other 3 quarters looked like that same Piston team that managed to get the current record which put them in last place. All teams will have some games where the shots fall all night long. I don't want to take away the great team play of some of the players who wore the Piston uniform. Reggie Jackson sure played much better than he had played all season long. But like Phil said, Reggie doesn't look like a real healthy guy. I think he gets real tired on defense and that i.e. the reason for his mental breakdowns. Ish Smith is just too small to be capable of defending top tier point guards. He doesn't have enough hard core defensive minded teammates to cover up this weakness. Bottom line is that if opposing teams watched the Pistons last night the coaches would still draw up a game plan to expose the weaknesses of Detroit's point guards. Why the point guards didn't want to play the style that had worked so well in the first quarter is a real mystery. They must have forgotten everything they learned before the game started.

Reggie Bullock is still getting himself in game shape but even out of shape this guy is showing that he knows what to do in floor situations. He knows when to make a cut and who is open in the offensive sets. This is something that KCP is still working on. Reggie made some glaring mistakes on defense but I think that was because he was out of breath. Meanwhile Hilliard had another unfortunate outing. I feel for him.

Andre Drummond played some really good defense in this game in the first half. He also showed his passing skills. Great effort by our big man. Now let's see how the Pistons handle Washington.

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Reggie Jackson

Post  Phil1980boy on Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:39 am

I can't speak for anybody else on this forum but I'm so over Reggie Jackson.

Reggie has some serious red flags concerning his health. His asthma, his constant dehydration issues, his knee and finger issues. The fact that Jackson decided to address his knee issue during the season instead of in the summer when he and Paul George were on vacation.

I understand Van Gundy wanting to stick with this group but don't hang on to Jackson too long.

The key is for Stan to ride Reggie for A short period of time while scowling the F.U.C.K.I.N.G universe for his replacement. lol

That's my advice....

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ATL 1st quarter

Post  KaySlay on Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:41 pm

We are playing amazing! Anyone see why? Reggie was moving the ball on every possession. That and Tobias is on fire with 15 points in the quarter. How about Morris with those alley oop finds to Drums? On pace for 168 points? What dimension am I in?
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First quarter...

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:35 pm

Pistons up 42 - 18

If they blow this lead, they need to be shot!!!
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Still Banging My Head

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:37 pm

I would rather see SVG make moves by trade deadline because I don't trust him to make them over the summer. Everything holds some kind of risk rather its done under direst or over freaking thinking. But out of desperation Joe landed Big Ben so somethings can happen when your backs to well.

Yeah Reggie drawers and ego were a tad bit to large to begin with for me. He said all the right things and then went out and done something else. I remember his presser when he got here spouting how he wants to restore tradition and how he admired the Bad Boys squad which he has no freaking physical knowledge because his ass was in pampers. Who have made more sense to to about the work ethics of the 2004 team.

We all know that Zeke would have grab his teams by the balls and lead them to victories, lead them to a championship, he would have displayed undeniable leadership. Do honestly think Andre would be half assing it on defense? Hell No!!!!!! I saw none of this in Reggie then and it's been confirmed.

I don't like the media spin though on Reggie because he clearly has his issues, but so do the rest of the team because at the end of the day they're responsible for how they perform. What I don't like is that they're waiting to be lead, when do they get mad at there situation and change it for themselves. But to my point the media don't hold this team accountable I should see articles every day vilifying half this team. They're not stupid if we see the flaws they see the flaws but they spend far too much time bull **** fans oppose to calling out players. Where's our Steven A right or wrong he don't pull his punches... Can you imagine him asking Andre why the hell he can't make FT making all that loot? Better why you can't put this team on your back and carrying them to victory.

I think our local media gets all freaking Giddy and start sucking ass at the first sight of these players oppose to getting in there faces.

I swear I would trade Andre ass for Cousins, this team needs some attitude, he'll I call over to China and bring Josh back in a bench role and I already said I would rather have Knight and Moose and you all know I hated these 2 with a passion. The team would have an identity then we can call them the Rat Bastards

It will be year 14 after this season and my prediction will be on point and this team ain't close to the CON in contending.

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Here's Hoping

Post  BallinD on Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:24 pm

SVG is not (Stupid)Van Gundy and can be crafty enough to do 3 things simultaneously. Here's a tryptich:
1. Play reggie just enough to get his Numbers
2. Play Ish enough to get Wins
3. Make the trade (fooled everybody)

Get Dragic or (who else) Rondo (last resort) for a late season push and in offseason continue the rebuild, hopefully with a high draft pick and a savvy, ornery, alpha male vet.
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I wish it would happen, but...

Post  Oracle on Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:21 pm

lemonpen wrote:Stan can continue to rearrange the deck chairs until the season runs out, but as long as he refuses to acknowledge that RJ @ Point is THE problem we will not recover our seasons high water mark.  

It all starts and ends with a guy who (1) wants to be the teams leading scorer and shot taker on one end and (2) want to conserve energy on the defensive end so that he can play his allotted minutes.  

We're running out of games.  If we are to recover 7th seed or better the starters + ISH will need time to re-gel.  

There are only so many lineup permutations remaining before a very difficult decision becomes evident.
I've lost any hope that Reggie will be moved to the bench.

IMO, the only way that would happen is for Reggie to pull a Stuckey and say let Singler, er., I mean Ish start, and that ain't happening!

I guarantee you that in Reggie's mind, what's good for the team is what's good for Reggie!

To be honest, it would take a huge man of character to step down from his dream, so I know it's tough.

His first calls after he announced that would likely come from Westbrook & Durant, and I'm sure I don't have to tell you what THEY would be saying!
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Checkmate

Post  lemonpen on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:08 pm

Stan can continue to rearrange the deck chairs until the season runs out, but as long as he refuses to acknowledge that RJ @ Point is THE problem we will not recover our seasons high water mark.  

It all starts and ends with a guy who (1) wants to be the teams leading scorer and shot taker on one end and (2) want to conserve energy on the defensive end so that he can play his allotted minutes.  

We're running out of games.  If we are to recover 7th seed or better the starters + ISH will need time to re-gel.  

There are only so many lineup permutations remaining before a very difficult decision becomes evident.
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Too Funny Not To Post

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:33 am

SB Nation Article wrote:The shots this style generates aren’t where the team wants to be. The Pistons are averaging the third fewest shots in the restricted area per game and the fifth most mid-range shots. Add to it their league bottom free-throw rate, and their offense looks an awful lot like what their defensive scheme tries to force their opponents into.

Without wholesale changes to their offense, it’s tough to see where the improvement is going to happen.

Maybe they need stop practicing against themselves and just run offense in practice.   I've been saying this all of last season and this season that this team is limited to ISO plays and false illusions about how effective they are in their pick and roll game. We don't have Malone and Stockton on the floor it Reggie and Andre.  Andre not drawing double teams for it really to be effective and Reggie isn't that much of a shooting threat outside or inside.  

It's not so much a players issue than it is a personnel issue IMO because the skill set and talent level of our players really don't match what SVG is trying to do offensively.  Our PG is a dumb dumb,  or center though a beast is not much of an offensive threat so he don't draw double teams.   Most importantly we don't have the type of talent that ISO should that big of part of our offense.  

The offense don't have to match the defense we saw that somewhat with the LB lead team.  LB kept it simple and demanded it to be executed the RIGHT WAY! I don't think we had a winning coach that is as limited as SVG with the offensive scheme hell LB was let go in part because it was enough just holding a team to 70 points while winning and barely score 80 for themselves.
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Headache

Post  WTF on Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:47 am

@coolbreeze, I sorta with you concerning Andre and only advocate that they build around since they found it necessary to pay him a Max Deal. Truth is I think Andre dumb as doorknobs on windows.

I so agree with Oracle that Andre needs something or someone to jump-start him and push him to his limit. There's still a sliver of hope for him but I don't think the answer is to surround him with more youth in fact they need to drastically decrease that number quickly.

I definitely agree with most of your comments about Reggie a lot of times we as fans have a bad habit of thinking players are going to change. The light aren't going to magically come on for Reggie and we'll all be looking at a similar transformation that we saw with Billups. We tried this theory with Stuckey and it didn't workout so well for us. Reggie isn't cut from the same clothe of a Billups or similar combo's that have made similar transformation.

Reggie like most players play to prove they can be the next Westbrook or Harden I think with Billups he played to prove he belongs in the league. You don't get traded 5 or 6 times without some sense of humility. If Reggie was committed to winning he'll be looking at old film of Zeke and Billups even better film of all the past great PG from all the era's. Reggie like a lot of PG seem to think they're already great.

Okay I know you all get tired of this one but I still think that Trey Burke is going to explode one day in this league if he's ever given the opportunity again. I think this still because he was a student of the game and you saw pro potential, real potential his freshmen season at Michigan you saw it the following season. It was just matter of translating to the pro once he was drafted I still think it can. I think he would be fart better at running this team than either Reggie or Ish can, I also think he can be that leader we talk about regularly that's currently missing. He was clearly the leader at Michigan those 2 seasons, I would seriously be thinking of how to get him from the Wizards.

@KaySlay, Tanking? it does kind of seem that way because I swear Reggie was trying his best to give that game back to the Lakers. Even the juggling of the lineup this late seems suspect. one thing is clear is that barring miracle this team won't be in the playoffs and I think SVG is starting to realize that but won't openly admit to it and he shouldn't but the writing seems to be on the walls.

The theory to this could be lets go after a number one pick to start this new era of basketball at the new arena next season when we should be honoring the final season at the Palace were the team won 3 titles. They should be honoring the legacy by going down swinging this season. Hell they should even have another brawl Tanking should be the answer.

I don't know I guess I'm Banging My Head Like Everyone Else facepalm


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WTF

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Post  cool breeze on Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:36 am

WTF wrote:I don't we need to be cuddling all the youth here we have to let some of them go. We to solidly commit to building around Andre to win now and not later. I like the kids we have I really do I don't mind 1 or 2 youth projects. Just think we need to keep it real and understand we did not draft any superstars the closes to that is Andre. If these guys were Kobe type or Lebron types rookies I would be right alone with everyone else in wanting to hold on to them.

I like KCP I really do had he went to some other team oppose to landing here he'll probably be averaging 20 plus a game leading some team to the playoffs. But we don't use him in that manner here fit has always been the reason I would trade him. Even in keeping him he deserves a better PG so adding win now talent is a requirement for both he and Andre.

We've seen this show before and far too often Stuckey was going to be a better version of CB, Monroe was going to go from Moose to being the next Moses, Knight was going to be on par with Zeke so on and so on. This isn't to say that one day we want guess it right and it happen but right now it hasn't.

If we can get a PG in the draft that comes in ala Zeke or Magic and make that kind of impact then I all for but please don't tell that whomever we draft can't com in and help us immediately. I don't want to hear about potential 3 years down the road.

Honestly I would like to get both Moose and Knight back if possible now that they've eaten a little crow and gain some experience who on here wouldn't Moose back in a backup role? wouldn't would prefer Knight over any of our current PG's? They're prime now ready to go (disclaimer only with the right coach) in place??????


WTF my take is different than yours. I hope you are right about the benefits of building the team around Andre Drummond. The guy has so much potential for sure. However, Andre Drummond is not a fundamentally sound player. As SVG pointed out in some of his interviews, the coach's biggest concern is the inept way that both Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson are playing basketball. He is right about this in my opinion. Neither Andre Drummond or Reggie Jackson have ever been known to be able to grasp the importance of learning how to play defense the right way. How can anyone teach effort at the NBA level where your two highest paid athletes make the most money. Andre Drummond has so much potential but he plays exactly like a rookie first round pick with high potential. Andre Drummond is not bringing amazing effort and smart mental play every time he steps onto the court. He plays really well for a few moments of most games and that is it.

Stan Van Gundy has even a bigger problem with Reggie Jackson. And this is partly the fault of SVG because he built up this grand idea that the Pistons could be a two man show with this lethal combination of Reggie and Andre. Both players believe this still and yet they know when the games actually start that Neither of those players are Labron James type athletes. They break down mentally at times and usually always on the defensive end. No supporting teammate has respect for their designated leaders who are not good teammates on the floor. Andre is a great guy off the floor but is he a help type defender who will cover his teammates butt when a mistake is made in the defensive rotation? Reggie on the other hand just cannot hold his own with any NBA starting point guard yet. When things are not going well for Reggie on offense, he gets worse on defense. I now see that Reggie is showing a complete lack of confidence in himself at times and if I can see it, what are his teammates thinking? The pressure is mounting for Reggie Jackson. The coach has built this superman idea of the two man pick and roll thing with Andre and Reggie so much that Reggie never bothered to learn the other options in their half court offense. Other players have to tell Reggie where to look when he gets himself in trouble.

Both Andre and Reggie are amazing athletes. Both players have all the physical gifts necessary for both to become All Star type players. However, they have relied on those physical gifts for their entire lives and have never been motivated to learn the details of the game. No player ever becomes a good teammate or All Star caliber player if they lack the mental toughness it takes to learn how do do everything well. Neither player have put in the work that real All Star type players have done. So why would we ever believe that somehow both players will ever change????

Being that this Piston team is nothing other than a two man circus show at this point in time, what does the coach have to lose if he decides to play a guy like Ellenson now? What big effect will Leuer have on this team when he comes back? I just don't get it. I see the potential in Ellenson. He is fast and has a big body. He has great shooting skills. Henry has learned in a short time how the defensive rotations work and in the one road game that he got minutes, I thought that Ellenson played with more energy especially on the defensive end than any other big man SVG played. Ellenson needs to get his feet wet this season and play against other NBA caliber players. The way this team is playing defense now, there is not downside with this idea of making a commitment to see what the team has in Henry Ellenson. Johnson, Ellenson and Bullock should be getting a lot of minutes now. Reggie Jackson should be receiving reduced minutes so his impact on defense doesn't hurt the team so much. Reggie also disrupts the offensive in a huge way as well. That is why I would like to see Stanley Johnson running the offense as a point forward. This is a no brainer but SVG would have to deal with Reggie Jackson's reaction and I do not think that SVG is ready to give up on his Two Man Circus Show that only appeals to people who know nothing about basketball. SVG needs to show he has a set of balls. After all we all thought that having one man with a lot of power would end the long dry periods of despair all Piston fans have suffered through in the past when we watched other so called highly talented players like Charlie V play defense much like Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson. I am tired of hearing all this nonsense about how talented Reggie and Andre are. Opposing NBA teams are targeting both Drummond and Jackson as the weak links of this Piston team because neither player knows what the hell they are doing when they play defense.

Moving to a point forward concept, the entire team would take a different look in a positive way. Without Reggie on the floor, the defense would improve for starters. The ball movement would improve and we would see more action on the weak side and players like Harris will have a much easier time getting good shots both inside and outside. Pope could finally show his offensive skills. He would actually touch the basketball on most possessions instead of about 15% of total Piston possessions. We would see more screens set because the team would be playing for each other with all 5 players contributing. But most of all, the Piston defense could be outstanding just by eliminating both Jackson and Smith for a portion of each game. Nothing improves on the defensive end when Jackson or Smith come in or out of the games. Both players are targeted by opposing teams along with Andre Drummond. SVG talks about the Piston defensive issues but he is afraid to make the corrections he knows are needed because he and the owner have staked everything on the TWO MAN PICK AND ROLL CIRCUS. I for one am tired of it and we all need to call out the coach for failing to do his job. SVG does talk about the right things and identifies that both Andre and Reggie are failing their team the way they fake playing defense. We fans and the rest of the team depend on SVG DOING THE RIGHT THING. He knows what he needs to do but doesn't want to deal the fall out when his two stars mope in the corner. How childish is that?


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