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Debbie Downer

Post  WTF on Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:47 pm

I love the Pistons and I don't want to be down on them as much as I am. I don't say what I say about Zeke and Chauncey of those past two championship teams without knowing they had to grow into that because they did. The difference between now and then though is what makes me so pessimistic in my thinking of these players.

Even back then the Fans Had a certain DNA as well and it wasn't this stuff we do now. There was a moment when Zeke couldn't get out of the first round, 2004 never had this problem there were getting pass the Net in the ECF so they were always close. But we hung on to those teams because we could see the fire in will in those clubs, hope was real back then when Zeke was fighting to get passed the NY or the Nets or Hawks but we knew they would do it, same with Chauncey and the crew we knew then that at any given moment they would breakthrough.

We knew what we had was good, now I sit here watch this watered down leagued, poorly prepared players in the league and can't stomach watching. Zeke always said it was about will and opposing that will onto your opponent every night. It wasn't about match up most night it was I'm going to kick your ass no matter what size you were. So even when they loss we enjoyed watching them, I still recall watching Rodman shut down every center in the league from the SF position in fact we watch him lockdown all 5 positions. We enjoyed seeing that, we enjoyed seeing a 6'8 Ben Wallace doing the same thing, or a Big Nasty playing like he was 6"11 in the post and not 6"6.

If this current group had this attitude I would be glued to the TV every game win lose or draw, I would have all the faith and hope in the world. Most of the time I tune it I see dumb, no effort, no will.

I want this team to return to glory I really do but there's so much beyond just having talent that's missing and makes it hard to hold that hope of it changing soon. You think LB or Chuck would be screwing around with Andre? HELL NO!!!! or even Reggie they would have traded their asses and we the fans would have applauded it. This is just getting tiresome
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Good comeback!

Post  Oracle on Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:18 pm

I can't argue that that's where they are right now. I do hope and believe that can change, but right now, it is what it is!
WTF wrote:
Oracle wrote:IMO, only Drummond lacks the fire we need because if he did, a lot of things would change.

We know Reggie has it from last year, you don't close out games the way he did if you didn't.

We know KCP has it, nobody works harder and you don't do that if you don't care!

Last year Dre showed more heart than he has this year, and that's a problem.

I guarantee you that if Cousins was our big man or even UniBrow, everything would be different!

BTW, notice I never mentioned moving Morris! I felt like Murph early on, but he's totally turned that around and become very important to the team.

The reason why I didn't include Reggie and KCP is something I guess IQ,  motive, and will.   Yes we all know Reggie has talent but we all know that talent alone don't get you there or where a team needs to be.  Zeke was talented and I doubt if he couldn't have easily dropped 40 a game if chose to do so. That DNA also included playing the right way and playing smart.  It's that reason why I don't see that DNA he has the history of not one but two Champion PG to study from and he still doesn't get.

Same with KCP and maybe not entirely his fault because I feel he's misused. But he too has potentially 2 HOF'er to draw from.  He can play for SVG he has to play for his team mates even at the expense of SVG ire.   Yes he has the energy of Rip and goes hard but he doesn't go smart. If Rip was given the green light to shot threes he wouldn't have because he knew that wasn't the smartest part of his game.  Joe had a green light but he didn't jack up threes because he knew he had better percentage if he step in a couple of feet to get a two instead.  Dumb was never apart of Pistons DNA I know he gets a lot of praise for his defense but lets not kid ourseleves he's no Rodman, Tay  or even a Hunter when it come to tenaciousness those players played with on the defensive end.  
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Oracle I couldn't Add Reggie & KCP

Post  WTF on Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:57 pm

Oracle wrote:IMO, only Drummond lacks the fire we need because if he did, a lot of things would change.

We know Reggie has it from last year, you don't close out games the way he did if you didn't.

We know KCP has it, nobody works harder and you don't do that if you don't care!

Last year Dre showed more heart than he has this year, and that's a problem.

I guarantee you that if Cousins was our big man or even UniBrow, everything would be different!

BTW, notice I never mentioned moving Morris! I felt like Murph early on, but he's totally turned that around and become very important to the team.

The reason why I didn't include Reggie and KCP is something I guess IQ, motive, and will. Yes we all know Reggie has talent but we all know that talent alone don't get you there or where a team needs to be. Zeke was talented and I doubt if he couldn't have easily dropped 40 a game if chose to do so. That DNA also included playing the right way and playing smart. It's that reason why I don't see that DNA he has the history of not one but two Champion PG to study from and he still doesn't get.

Same with KCP and maybe not entirely his fault because I feel he's misused. But he too has potentially 2 HOF'er to draw from. He can play for SVG he has to play for his team mates even at the expense of SVG ire. Yes he has the energy of Rip and goes hard but he doesn't go smart. If Rip was given the green light to shot threes he wouldn't have because he knew that wasn't the smartest part of his game. Joe had a green light but he didn't jack up threes because he knew he had better percentage if he step in a couple of feet to get a two instead. Dumb was never apart of Pistons DNA I know he gets a lot of praise for his defense but lets not kid ourseleves he's no Rodman, Tay or even a Hunter when it come to tenaciousness those players played with on the defensive end.
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DNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post  WTF on Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:41 pm

Lets talk about Pistons DNA and what it looks like.

Rick Mahorn: Really lets look back at what we had in him as player, lets look at how he approached the game, lets look at all of it. Before he became a Piston we hated his guts, we hated him for a variety of reasons before he every put of that uniform. This is why I don't understand Murph's disdain for Morris or why Josh was hated so much.

Rasheed: Almost the same as with Rick I don't think we all agree it was the best move considering all the baggage he brought with him coming out of Portland. Known weed head, countless locker room issue, beefing with refs, leading the league in techs and famously waiting to beat up a ref after a game but Morris defends his mother honor and on hearsay out of Phoenix he's hated.

Lamb: Who knew just like with Big Ben that this guy would be what he became, a leader, hard working player, a big time clutch player. Hell he was likely one the first if not the first stretch big man in the game. But like Butler and Cousin he played with passion, and hated losing.

Big Ben: That DNA was all about hard work knowing nothing about the NBA was guaranteed that you had to work hard and this is not to say Morris is a Big Ben but to say just like Big Ben Morris doesn't take days off and he certainly hasn't taken his opportunity here for granted even in being under paid much in the same way Big Ben was for so long.

That DNA looked like Mark, Big Nasty, Dice, Vinny, all capable starters taking backseats for the betterment of the team because it was about championships and not 8th seeds and coming in seconds. Losing feed their will to win, no one was one the bench pouting and they weren't repeating the same mistakes.

We know what it looks like people and dare anyone posting here to say differently, I dare anyone to show me beyond the players I mentioned that shows any signs of that DNA.

When our Championship teams loss games it wasn't because they weren't prepared or ready, it wasn't because they were poorly coached, it wasn't because they didn't have the answer, it wasn't because they couldn't compete or didn't compete it was because the opposing team that day just happened to be better.

We saw the hurt and pain when the got cheated out of their first title and we saw how they came back, we saw the passion and desire they had to get past Bostons and we knew then that the tough break in Boston and the bullshit call against LA that this team was a Dynasty, that this team in our hearts sould have been the first to have 4 consecutive NBA Titles oppose to the back to back.

For all of this and knowing this history why in the fu@k do we accept what we see today and apply false delusional hope to it base on potential. Potential back then only lasted a season and now we sit here passing out max deals and still hoping. WTF
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Wise, I can't agree...

Post  Oracle on Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:36 pm

IMO, only Drummond lacks the fire we need because if he did, a lot of things would change.

We know Reggie has it from last year, you don't close out games the way he did if you didn't.

We know KCP has it, nobody works harder and you don't do that if you don't care!

Last year Dre showed more heart than he has this year, and that's a problem.

I guarantee you that if Cousins was our big man or even UniBrow, everything would be different!

BTW, notice I never mentioned moving Morris! I felt like Murph early on, but he's totally turned that around and become very important to the team.
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You All Do Remeber What Pistons DNA Looks Like?

Post  WTF on Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:51 am

BallinD wrote:Jimmy Butler.  This is who I want. BTW, he's on the trading block. Do we really want Boston to get him?  No....

Jimmy Butler Profile Says he is Desparate To Win

Butler: "If you don't come in this m-----f----- pissed off after you lose any game, something is wrong," Butler says. "This is your job. This is what you're supposed to love to do, and I don't think that everybody looks at it that way. I want to play with guys that care, that play hard, that want to do well for this organization. That want to win games. Do whatever it takes, just win. I don't think that's happening right now. I really don't."

"If I don't think you're doing what you're doing to the best of your ability, I will for sure let you know. And I will have no hard feelings about it. I'll embarrass you. I think that comes with the job. You get paid a lot of money. If I'm not doing my end on the basketball court, the media rips me apart. I'm your media."

Well, Reggie and Dre?  Oh wait, you're gone, aren't you?  Butler is young, fiery, wants to be "coached up," hates losing, is a star, is a leader.  Can we get him?? How do we make it work? Reggie and Tobias plus a pick for for Butler and MCW and change? Get a third team in there.

Sounds like a player with Pistons DNA to me, just like Morris who displays it every single game with his work ethics. But it's funny that some fans don't want to see this type of attitude from players. This is why they were so reluctant about Cousins and was wrong about Morris when we he first arrived here this why they had issues with Josh.

If you told me today that Cousins, Butler and Morris were on the roster together then I tell you that we're sitting right there with Boston and Toronto scaring the **** out of the Cavs. This the fire we need on this team not these passive excused filled pussy we have now on our roster waiting on them to grow some balls and give a **** one day.

For the life of me I don't understand why players on this team don't get pisst about the losing, why they're not in each others grill when mistakes are made. Zeke, Lamb and Rick stayed in the players faces, Chauncey didn't have to because he had the probably the smartest team ever assembled to win a title.

People don't like Cousin because they misunderstood his passion, he wants to win he's not trying to lose so who gives a **** if someone gets rubbed the wrong way or some biotch player can't take it. Are they there to win or freaking make friends. Why should Butler me happy with losing, he suppose to be mad about the losing and he has the perfect attitude its Andre JOB to be better and get better every single season, there passion should be to want to be the best. Morris wasn't a bad team mate or a cancer in reality if he was in a locker room full of men and not sensitive sissy. If you play hard and work hard you want to be paid for it, the guy plays hard every night and you never see him take a game off period. He's under paid yet he come out and play.

These are the players that have that Pistons DNA, not Andre, not Reggie and sadly not KCP. I bet Bullock and Hillard has it, I bet Harris has a taste of it, I bet Baynes has it, seeing Ellensen in college he looks to have it, Leuer looks to have some of it even Ish. It's sad that the players SVG relies on none of them have it that Pistons DNA.
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Let's Go Get Him!

Post  BallinD on Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:51 am

Jimmy Butler.  This is who I want. BTW, he's on the trading block. Do we really want Boston to get him?  No....

Jimmy Butler Profile Says he is Desparate To Win

Butler: "If you don't come in this m-----f----- pissed off after you lose any game, something is wrong," Butler says. "This is your job. This is what you're supposed to love to do, and I don't think that everybody looks at it that way. I want to play with guys that care, that play hard, that want to do well for this organization. That want to win games. Do whatever it takes, just win. I don't think that's happening right now. I really don't."

"If I don't think you're doing what you're doing to the best of your ability, I will for sure let you know. And I will have no hard feelings about it. I'll embarrass you. I think that comes with the job. You get paid a lot of money. If I'm not doing my end on the basketball court, the media rips me apart. I'm your media."

Well, Reggie and Dre?  Oh wait, you're gone, aren't you?  Butler is young, fiery, wants to be "coached up," hates losing, is a star, is a leader.  Can we get him?? How do we make it work? Reggie and Tobias plus a pick for for Butler and MCW and change? Get a third team in there.
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Ballin

Post  Oracle on Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:14 am

IMO, this is one of your best posts I've seen! I confess I would like to keep KCP, but I'm not comfortable giving him the max, so if we could get another 1st round pick in the late lottery to add to our own, it might hurt in the short term, but be good long term.

I can't see how keeping Baynes makes any sense, and packaging him with a wing should return something of value.

Another good option is moving Stanley Johnson to a young team for a really decent 1st round pick, maybe packaged with Baynes to return another player.

I guess I agree with you and Wise, doing something trumps pulling a Joe out of a SVG's arse!
BallinD wrote:Dre not one of the top 50 players under 25-yrs old is a shock and an ESPN mistake of the first order but maybe corroborates what Lowe said about his trade value, so there is that! We all know he is better than at least 30 of the guys ahead of him, if not 40, right???

What does this say about SVG and his big man development schemes?  No competent big man coach. Dumping the ball into the post to start games is not best when Dre shoots fade-away jump hooks from poor post position.  Try something more nuanced to get Andre a shot and energized Stan. Come on, coach!  Try something with him attacking??  Reggie too tired to start the game to work to get the big fella a good shot?  

Andre/Reggie's not valued highly.  Can't trade KCP, and for who?, superstupid to trade Marcus due to his high value vs low contract.  A push, if we trade Baynes, but if we package him with Bullock, since Stan refuses to play him, or Rjax, or KCP.  We can't afford to throw in a first-round pick unless we get a star back, so we are officially in NBA purgatory, treading water with little to no hope of ever getting back to the ECF.  

Who are teams calling about, Tobias? SJ?  KCP.  Could we trade Pope for a 1st Round pick? Portland moved Plumlee for a good young center and got a #1 pick, can we do something similar?

So realistically, who knows what we will do on the trade front?  What will we do down the stretch run.  If we continue to platoon at PG we could get to 7th seed or even 6th, IMO.  Is it possible we could make some noise from there?  If the stars align and SVG overcomes his stupid stubborness and unleashes the lineup.  It makes no sense to get talent and not develop it.  We neglect opportunities to get Ellensen, Bullock, some burn.

Our problems are offensive identity, lack of 3pt shooting, Drummond's D at the rim and our defense at the point, despite our so-called best defender KCP.  Can't fix all that with trades, but then again, maybe we can.  I agree with WTF and others, we need to try.
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Rude Shock

Post  BallinD on Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:52 pm

Dre not one of the top 50 players under 25-yrs old is a shock and an ESPN mistake of the first order but maybe corroborates what Lowe said about his trade value, so there is that! We all know he is better than at least 30 of the guys ahead of him, if not 40, right???

What does this say about SVG and his big man development schemes?  No competent big man coach. Dumping the ball into the post to start games is not best when Dre shoots fade-away jump hooks from poor post position.  Try something more nuanced to get Andre a shot and energized Stan. Come on, coach!  Try something with him attacking??  Reggie too tired to start the game to work to get the big fella a good shot?  

Andre/Reggie's not valued highly.  Can't trade KCP, and for who?, superstupid to trade Marcus due to his high value vs low contract.  A push, if we trade Baynes, but if we package him with Bullock, since Stan refuses to play him, or Rjax, or KCP.  We can't afford to throw in a first-round pick unless we get a star back, so we are officially in NBA purgatory, treading water with little to no hope of ever getting back to the ECF.  

Who are teams calling about, Tobias? SJ?  KCP.  Could we trade Pope for a 1st Round pick? Portland moved Plumlee for a good young center and got a #1 pick, can we do something similar?

So realistically, who knows what we will do on the trade front?  What will we do down the stretch run.  If we continue to platoon at PG we could get to 7th seed or even 6th, IMO.  Is it possible we could make some noise from there?  If the stars align and SVG overcomes his stupid stubborness and unleashes the lineup.  It makes no sense to get talent and not develop it.  We neglect opportunities to get Ellensen, Bullock, some burn.

Our problems are offensive identity, lack of 3pt shooting, Drummond's D at the rim and our defense at the point, despite our so-called best defender KCP.  Can't fix all that with trades, but then again, maybe we can.  I agree with WTF and others, we need to try.
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Re: FORUM

Post  WTF on Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:16 pm

So you have the Cavs, Celtics, Raptors, and Wizards all making or contemplating moves by trade deadline and these are all teams currently ahead of us why would we not be doing the same. I don't understand this whole idea of waiting for things to fall out the sky for us intermally to get better this thing with potential and wait and see makes me sick.

I just don't understand it we know what we need now but keep hoping it will come later, just trade for what you need (I know easier said than done) but it's like we don't even try at all. You have three teams smelling the Cavs blood and they're ready to react 2 rigth moves by the Celtics and they could be on par with the Cavs and further out of reach from us.

It's not like we're even sitting comfortable at the 8th spot as any moment we could right back sitting at an 11th spot and out of the playoffs. We need to be putting distance between ourselves and Miami, Milwaukee and Charlotte yet alone trying to keep pace with the teams ahead of us.
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SVG goes back to lab... and dumping Stanley Dreams

Post  Oracle on Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:42 pm

Unfortunately he likely doesn't have any chemicals to brew up new formula's.

Just wondering... Why can't we play fast when Ish is in there, and PnR when Reggie is in, what's the confusion?

IMO, part of it is that SVG won't play 2 units, so that forces odd combinations that never really develop chemistry.

But SVG really wishes he could go back to the draft and dump Stanley Johnson

He almost took Booker, unfortunately he believed Stanley's crap about being the best player in the draft... what a load!

Booker is 3 times the player right now, and he's going to get better. Who knows what Stanley's ceiling is.

I'd love to have Booker for offense with KCP for defense, you pick'em who comes off the bench.

Stanley is a tweener that may never fit right even if he develops more, but he has so far to go to be useful, it's hard to see how he gets there.
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Forgot about Dre? Andre Drummond left off ESPN list of top 50 under 25

Post  WTF on Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:02 pm

No surprise here facepalm
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Pistons play well in the first half and then mailed it in and should have lost it in the 2nd due to 3rd quarter blues

Post  cool breeze on Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:22 am

The true story of this game was the fact that Dallas had an unusually bad night hitting wide open jump shots. All night long Dallas players were rimming out shots from every spot on the floor. The important thing was in the 2nd half Dallas got a lot of wide open looks that most NBA players knock down. So don't get too excited Piston fans if you didn't actually watch this game.

The exciting part for me was the interaction between Drummond and Van Gundy in the first half when Stan got on Andre because he failed to get out on his man who was knocking down wide open jump shots. This to me was just another confirmation that our franchise player is not very bright when it comes to game preparation. He doesn't prepare because he knows it all. Some of the stories on social media about Drummond letting his coach know what he thinks is actually funny to me. This is what Andre did with his college coaches as well. When a coach would try to help Andre with tough love showing him where is was supposed to be on defense, Andre would talk back and tell the coaches how he thought the game should be played. Andre says when he and his coach talk they leave nothing unsaid. No Andre you need to shut your trap and listen to what the coach needs from you. You are not in charge even though the mild mannered owner psychologist will listen to your childish complaints now and then. This owner should dump Andre Drummond so he doesn't get any more of those calls. In this game, Drummond didn't adjust his game to identify who he was playing against. After getting two early fouls Andre Noticed that Baynes was checking in so he threw up a wild hook shot from 8 feet away on the baseline and it accidentally went in. How many times does anyone make that shot? Perhaps 20% of the time. He was going out of bounds when he shot it. So Andre went to the bench thinking what a great offensive player he has become.

The important fact that seems to be talked about relating to lack of interest in securing rights to Andre Drummond is that few if any NBA teams say they really have a big need for the type of player Andre Drummond has become. What does that mean Piston fans? I think it means that other teams might have substandard centers in their starting lineups but they prefer their substandard player over Andre Drummond. Just as there was very little interest in Greg Monroe around the league when the Bucks were shopping him, Drummond is in the same category or even worse. At lease Monroe has a consistently OK offensive game. He is predictable at least. We never know what our big man will be like from quarter to quarter. I am sure that Stan Van Gundy would be content bringing in some player like Zeus who played briefly in training camp for the Pistons and is currently in the D League over Andre Drummond. In my opinion, GMs around the league would prefer picking up a D League center who will run the court hard, play defense, box out, be able to catch and pass the basketball and never score a point than pay $22 million dollars to a over weight low basketball IQ player who seldom prepares mentally for any regular season game. Soon the Pistons will be paying Andre $27 mil. His lame pass early in the 3rd quarter where he threw the ball directly to an opposing player cross court must make Tom Gores flinch if he even bothers to watch the Pistons anymore. His team is worth 900 million so why should he be concerned? If fans like me are tired of watching this starting unit what are the players thinking? Show me the money must be what they are thinking. We fans are the suckers.

Reggie had a good game last night. However, he came down on his bad leg and hurt his knee again. It is clear that he has knee problems which will most likely kill any chances of moving him to another team. He did play in the 2nd half but limped a bit. Can Stan pull off a miracle and trade this man? I would try to trade both Jackson and Pope. I know a lot of you think a lot of Pope. My gut tells me once he signs a new contract, KCP will be much like Drummond and Jackson. Instead of paying so much money for a guy who has been extremely inconsistent on both offense and defense, the Pistons could pick up a more promising player in the draft. Can any Piston fans truly say that Pope is a top tier 2 guard after all of those hundreds of minutes he has been blessed with since he arrived in Detroit? Knowing Detroit is most likely stuck with both Drummond and Jackson, adding a new Pope contract will guarantee that we will be watching more of the same brand of basketball for many seasons to come. I hate to see Pope launch those early 3 point attempts when he has been shooting so poorly all season long. Like Stan said, Pope has no fear. Isiah Thomas played with fear. He would not shoot a 3 point shot on a night when when he had experienced several weeks of missing long jump shots. Pope must now be around 7 for 55 over the past few weeks shooting the 3 point shot. If the shot is not falling just play hard nosed basketball and try to get closer to the basket to get your shots. It is so easy and lazy to just jack up 3 point shots and it is not easy to move without the basketball and get open closer to the basket. Zeke was a winner. Pope is just another Piston with a low basketball IQ. He is athletic but never on a winning basketball team. We need more high basketball IQ players who will not just settle for mindlessly launching long jump shots early in the shot clock.

The lineup of Baynes, Harris, Leuer, Smith and Johnson looked real good in the 2nd quarter. Harris was playing small forward and dominated. The team was balanced with fewer shooters and more play makers and players who set screens. The chemistry on defense was really good. That portion of the game was fun to watch for me and most likely Stan Van Gundy enjoyed watching that group as well.

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Articles say we're going into the break on a winning note, BUT...

Post  Oracle on Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:53 am

We were outscored in the 2nd half by 20 points!!! mad

Yeah we won, but that's down right scary to take a drubbing like that if you're trying to make a statement about closing out the season.

BTW, I don't like having an all star game this late in the season. Whatever happened to making it mid season???

DX, you cracked me up with your comments on Sparma & Murph lol

Both bringing different things to the forum and making great contributions. I always knew Murph didn't have much use for Morris, but it's always refreshing to get the fresh smell of hate in the morning lol lol lol
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Going into the All-Star break

Post  deusXango on Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:55 pm

Let's examine what's gone on since game 21:
-Reggie Jackson returned to the starting lineup.
How has that been working out?
-Tobias Harris has been replaced in the starting lineup by Jon Leuer.
Am I the only one who sees the brilliance in that act of stupidity?
-Beno Udrih has been removed from the rotation.
WTF?
-Reggie Bullock returned from injured reserve.
Oddly, it seems, he's playing less time as KCP's backup since he's been back.
-Stan Van Gundy has talked about everything that the TEAM needs and the shortcomings of his players.
He omitted discussing the possibility of a new coach, or why he thinks Aaron Grey is better for Drummond than Sheed.

8 DAYS AWAY FROM THE TRADE DEADLINE:
We've talked about trading Reggie Jackson on this forum but, the popular trade scenarios have been about Tobias Harris, Andre Drummond, Stanley Johnson, and Marcus Morris, everybody but our starting backcourt. I'd have thought that SVG would be interested in building around Drummond, Harris, Morris, and Johnson rather than selling low (for God only knows who) and building around Jackson and KCP.

We badly need CAP space to resign KCP and in my estimation, he's more valuable to the TEAM than what Reggie's showing; I agree with Wise, it's not what a player has done or will do but, what's he doing now?!
We badly need a top tier draft pick; 9, 10, 11, 12, ain't bringing us sh!t, plus SVG won't play a player drafted there. 2-5 is what a real "pimp" would do (to quote the missing Sebastian)! Jackson and Baynes should put us in a position to wheel and deal for multiple first round draft picks this year...if they're all that.
We badly need a long range sharp shooter; what does the eye test y'all? What does the stats tell you? Trading for better than average 3 and D player is more important than a PG, at this point. We can live with Ish and Beno for the duration of the season, which is all but lost....maybe.

Kudos to Don, Wise, BallinD, KaySlay, and my man Oracle....Sparma talks over my head and I don't know what to make of Murph lately, but you guys have given me a lot of food for thought the first half of the year. Hey Murph, where's Merc?
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:21 pm

Murph wrote:I really am a dyed in the wool Morris hatter.  I can't remember when I've disliked a pistons player so much.  

And let's face it, short, chubby, 'tweeners who are cancers in the lockerroom are a dime a dozen.

The Pistons should cut Morris, and start Harris, Leuer and Drummond in the front court, until they can sign a decent starting PF.

Now watch SVG keep Morris and trade Drummond.

Who knows what is really going on and what the players think of each other. The chemistry within SVG's starting group is not good. I have no idea if Morris has something to do with that. It is true that the Phoenix Suns head coach and their GM felt both of the twins were big trouble and the tension within the Suns team disappeared when they left. However, it appears that both twines are acting more professional these days. Maybe there just needed to go their separate way.

After reading some of the stuff that Stan Van Gundy has stated lately about the attitude of Andre Drummond relating to giving the team what Stan thinks he needs to give, my opinion of Andre Drummond has gone full circle in the opposite direction. My hope was that Andre would wake up and decide he wants to become a top tier defensive player. According to what I actually see on the court and what Stan has said about Andre's attitude, I am in favor of moving him to free up money to eventually find a player who will play the right way. The most recent statement I have heard about Stan's criticism of Andre involves how Andre showed he knew how to protect the paint by stepping out to pick up players penetrating in the paint or shooters attempting those 5 foot jump shot inside the center of the foul line. But once the season started Andre fizzled out and faked playing defense. You can see it and everyone who watches Andre play defense from game to game knows you never know what to expect out of him on defense. When the coach knows that his franchise player is faking it and not providing the job he needs to do for the team, you have to let that player go. The idea that Andre Drummond calls Tom Gores and complains about how nasty Van Gundy is when Stan tries to steer Andre in the right direction, should be a big red flag for the owner. There is also no doubt that Andre Drummond would give a lot more for his team if he lost from 15 to 30 pounds. Andre is in his early 20s but appears to be dragging in the first quarter of a lot of games and also in the 2nd half of games. Those stats you mention means nothing at all to me. Andre doesn't get the job done when it counts. Drummond has a lot of potential talent but Charlie V advised all of us that he was extremely talented as well. That last game against the Bucks sold me that Andre Drummond is making way too much money and will never be a winner. If you contacted Andre Drummond's college coaches they would laugh knowing what a pain in the ass he was as a college loser. Just mention max contract to those guys and you would get an ear full. Joe Dumars never was a guy who talked to college coaches about players he wanted to pick in the draft. Remember Rodney White? Now if Drummond were on this team and made 8 million a season, I would say take a chance on him. But this guy is not all in relating to ever wanting to be known as a elite defender. He is lazy at times and cannot concentrate more than a few seconds. No player who approaches games with zero preparation should be making $22 mil to $27 mil a season. Notice that no team even wants Andre Drummond either. That must be the real truth because if the Pistons could just get rid of his contract somehow they would be idiots not to do it.

If the Pistons can get rid of Drummond and Jackson now, Stan Van Gundy should just concentrate on developing the young players and the new draftees he gets hopefully if some trades can be worked out. I would trade both of our franchise layers and give money to the teams that agree to put them on their teams. Meanwhile, Morris has a favorable contract for the Pistons as they build a new team that has players who are more coachable. Funny I have been ripping on Stan Van Gundy and several of my friends here say Van Gundy is a really good teacher and was a solid assistant college coach earlier on who really knew the fundamentals and could always improve young guys. Drummond has a long history of not listening to coaches. remember he rejected the shooting coach who tried to teach Andre how to shoot foul shots. No Andre will do things his way. He wants to be an offensive star and could care less about ever being on a winning team.

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I Hate Morris

Post  Murph on Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:15 pm

I really am a dyed in the wool Morris hatter.  I can't remember when I've disliked a pistons player so much.  

And let's face it, short, chubby, 'tweeners who are cancers in the lockerroom are a dime a dozen.

The Pistons should cut Morris, and start Harris, Leuer and Drummond in the front court, until they can sign a decent starting PF.

Now watch SVG keep Morris and trade Drummond.
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Morris Hater LOL!

Post  WTF on Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:56 pm

Murph wrote:So Marcus Morris is responsible for calling the team meeting and setting up  the team dynamics that are pitting Drummond and Jackson against the rest of the team?  Why am I not surprise?  facepalm

Cut Morris.  He's a cancer wherever he goes.  He was a terrible pick up in the first place.  Dump the malcontent.

without Morris we have only half the wins we got now are you serious? More times than not it's Morris defensive not Andre's that impact the game. I have to laugh he's only been here and Phoenix what did he do again? Oh he defended his mothers honor and who wouldn't have?
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And Might I Ask........

Post  WTF on Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:43 pm

Murph wrote:Drummond is a physical and statistical freak of nature.  He's averaged 1000 rebounds and 1000 points a year since he entered the NBA 5 years ago, and he's still only 23.  If he keeps rebounding at this pace, and doesn't get hurt, he'll be one of the top 5 or 10 rebounders in NBA history by the time his career is over.  And here I have to point out that the top 18 rebounders in NBA history ae in the HOF.

The Pistons have improved every single year he's been on the team.  They made the playoff last year, for the first time in 7 years, and they will very likely make the playoffs again this year.  

This team might be underperforming due to chemistry problems and PG play, but Drummond is not responsible for that.


SVG needs to not freak out and make trades for the sake of making trades.  And he should be fired for even thinking about trading Drummond.  

Seriously, do we want to be the Orlando Magic for the next 10 years?  Because if SVG trades Drummond, that's who we'll be.


How many of them have NBA Titles, Been to Finals and been on consistently winning teams?   Better question how many of them were well above being average defenders. I doubt verty seriously if he can keep up a 12 pt and 12 reb average. He should but he won't. There always seem to be some form of if and maybe. I'm willing to bet we be better without him and play 3 forward. I'm willing to bet Leuer would play the center position better and the P&R would be more effective.
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Lowe blow & offensive rebounding/ D

Post  Sparma on Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:26 pm

Brutal analysis, but accurate as far as I can tell.

Listening to a San Antonio game, an interesting point was made: Pops doesn't emphasize offensive rebounding because he wants his team to hustle back on defense.  That makes a ton of sense to me, given my experience at my lowly level of play.  At that level, I was a good offensive rebounder, but (as someone not optimally fit) that came with being sluggish getting back on defense.  The comment on SA made me wonder if the thing that AD does superbly (offensive rebounding) comes paired with the limited effort getting back on D and expending real effort on D.  I'm thinking that his great strength fits will with a maddening defect on D.  That trade off needn't be the case if AD were in fantastic shape, but maybe he isn't?


Last edited by Sparma on Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dump Morris - He Doesn't Even Belong In The NBA

Post  Murph on Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:28 pm

So Marcus Morris is responsible for calling the team meeting and setting up  the team dynamics that are pitting Drummond and Jackson against the rest of the team?  Why am I not surprise?  facepalm

Cut Morris.  He's a cancer wherever he goes.  He was a terrible pick up in the first place.  Dump the malcontent.
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Fire Van Gundy

Post  Murph on Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:19 pm

And the funny part is that wasn't SVG hired because his experience and "success" coaching Dwight Howard? Some success. He ran Howard out of town, and the Magic have been a basket case ever since. And now he's going to do the same in Detroit.
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Re: FORUM

Post  Murph on Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:10 pm

Drummond is a physical and statistical freak of nature. He's averaged 1000 rebounds and 1000 points a year since he entered the NBA 5 years ago, and he's still only 23. If he keeps rebounding at this pace, and doesn't get hurt, he'll be one of the top 5 or 10 rebounders in NBA history by the time his career is over. And here I have to point out that the top 18 rebounders in NBA history ae in the HOF.

The Pistons have improved every single year he's been on the team. They made the playoff last year, for the first time in 7 years, and they will very likely make the playoffs again this year.

This team might be underperforming due to chemistry problems and PG play, but Drummond is not responsible for that.


SVG needs to not freak out and make trades for the sake of making trades. And he should be fired for even thinking about trading Drummond.

Seriously, do we want to be the Orlando Magic for the next 10 years? Because if SVG trades Drummond, that's who we'll be.

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Go to Hoops Hype and see what is going on between Van Gundy and Drummond

Post  cool breeze on Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:11 pm

Now we can see a clearer picture of what is going on with the Pistons. Andre Drummond beats to his own drum. Read the comments on social media. What is bothersome to me is this relationship that Drummond has with the owner, Tom Gores. Tom should not be listening board to Andre's whining. Drummond is not doing basic things that Stan is asking him to do during games. Notice the post relating to how Andre showed coaches amazing footwork in training camp on defense but since the season started has become lazy standing deep in the paint. I have watched this exact thing involving Drummond. He is a lazy ass know it all low basketball IQ player that we are not stuck with for years to come. There are two good suggestions relating to what Drummond could do more of on offense in Hoops Hype that Andre ignores as well. Wow now I am not going to rip on the coach so much. This is a players league. We have players who are getting their asses kicked by other better NBA players. We have two players, point guard and center who are going to do their own thing. I feel for their teammates. Cut your loses Tom Gores.

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Zach Cronin's article "Don't Part Ways With Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond" shows how writers or agents can manipulate stats to create a false story

Post  cool breeze on Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:56 pm

Anyone who has bothered to watch Andre Drummond play offense knows that he is not a natural scorer type of player like Anthony Davis. The writer also talks about Andre's work ethic and mentions how Detroit locks down on defense but has trouble scoring. Just by looking at stats one might bite on this nonsense. Andre Drummond is the guy all teams pick on when he is playing defense. Detroit as a team is not a good defensive team when it counts. Whenever a good team needs to score, they usually score. That is the difference between the Zeke and Billups led teams and this current team. The Drummond work ethic mythical story line was created by Andre's agent to get that big contract. When has Andre Drummond ever worked on his basic conditioning or worked in the off season with a good defensive coach? His reactions on defense is so bad it is clear to me that he has never attempted to learn how to play defense the right way. He still can't remember to box out on the defensive boards. Zach says Andre needs to work on more offensive moves. There is no way this man could be watching any complete games involving the Pistons this season. I don't blame him though because the chemistry is so bad this team is extremely hard to watch. I am amazed that anyone actually goes to the games at the Palace. Knowing what is going on, I now see why the owner has decided to move the team downtown. Smoke and mirrors in action to fool the fans into thinking they will see a different product once the team plays in Detroit. Just hope that Andre and Reggie are gone by then Piston fans. A new beginning would be great.

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Re: FORUM

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