Don't Believe The Hype!!!!! Either

[WTF]

The Media Hype sucks because they won't be honest, report honestly and say what's true about this team. They should be screaming the same thing I screaming about blowing this team up.

Part of the problem is these guys really don't know the sports as well as they should to be reporting on it. Many never really played the game to understand how players should really function in any sports. Just becuase one studies sport media/management or whateve in college it really don't give you that feel you need to properly assess and report on what you're seeing.

It wasn't some great mystery for me to see KCP didn't fit and would'nt fit in the current Pistons system or that of the previous one and if the media actually did their job thye would have been saying the same things I was saying. In fact they would be report on a lot of what many of us being saying on a variety of issues with this team.

Fans can make a difference by showing up and not showing up to games that's it, but the media can affect change with their honest reporting. They can get a coach fired, they can get a player cut, they can get a team to move in a different direction just by truthfully reporting on what they're seeing and not selling puff pieces.

Damn shame that Stafford can get abused at every turn even though his stats are often top 5 most seasons yet the media choses to kill him week in an week out, God forbid a Tigers pitcher has a crappy inning you'll hear about it all day. But if your Franchise Detroit Pistons Center can't defend an make FT's very little gets said about it in the media.

It's going to be hard to keep following this team if they don't blow it up.

[BallinD]

You had me laughing at the image of SVG polishing turds, and tossing aside players.  Now he is hard at work to polish Dre and Weggie up for the move downtown.  I say blow it up, get value, hard-knuckle players, shooters and roll the dice.  

I hope this fool SVG can draft and won't pass on another Devin Booker or Miles Turner.

It will be way more interesting, just as this year down the stretch it was actually fun watching the reserves play harder and better than his turds, polished or not.

I maintain though, that the main story is he mismanaged his roster this year and that is what cost us, not the spin that it was Weggie's injury.  Look at the Heat, Bucks, Raptors and Bulls, despite significant injury time for their stars.  That's right they are still playing.  Why aren't we?  

I know you all think that every player over time will magically become what you're all hoping. You all did it with every player we drafted from Amir, Delfino, Stuckey, Middleton, Knight, Moose, Andre, KCP and now Stanley Johnson etc and so on.  A lot of the failure has been a result of coaching but another chunk of disappointment comes in all that overstating of talent that we need to watch every turd bloom into the greatness of our imagination.  

Seriously if it takes us eating a bad deal or two so be it as lond as the team moving in the direction of winning now,  truth be told who gives a **** about cap and bad contracts if you're deep into the playoffs generating post season dollars.   We need to be doing what Boston did, not what Miami did but what Boston did in creating their Big Three.    

[cool breeze]

As long as we keep this wait an see approach oppose to a win now approach this team will continue to spin it wheel in this same sorry sad place it's been in since 2009. Really since 2004 watching Joe sit on his hands until he finally was force to resign.

I know you all think that every player over time will magically become what you're all hoping. You all did it with every player we drafted from Amir, Delfino, Stuckey, Middleton, Knight, Moose, Andre, KCP and now Stanley Johnson etc and so on. A lot of the failure has been a result of coaching but another chunk of disappointment comes in all that overstating of talent that we need to watch every turd bloom into the greatness of our imagination.

Seriously if it takes us eating a bad deal or two so be it as lond as the team moving in the direction of winning now, truth be told who gives a **** about cap and bad contracts if you're deep into the playoffs generating post season dollars. We need to be doing what Boston did, not what Miami did but what Boston did in creating their Big Three.

If the team is so intent on Andre being franchise sadly because we stuck with his ass, so we need to find a KG and Ray Allen to stick next to ass and find us a Rondo in the draft. Blow this **** up, it okay like I said to groom one or two turds if they're hidden behind talent and allowed to grow. We keep adding turds and the pile of **** just gets bigger not better.

YES! WTF the real truth is that the current owner and previously Bill Davidson's wife were content to give Piston fans a fake team. When has Andre Drummond ever looked like a player anyone can count on to show up for every game as even an average player. The owner seems content to show the fans he got a guy who can get some rebound stats even though the rebounds Andre gets are usually never the key febounds that big Ben Wallace got or Bill Laimbeer secured. Holes are filled on this team with rejects from other teams. No alpha dog leader will be obtained by the Pistons at least in a clever trade. the owner is throwing money around listening to the advise of Stan Van Gundy who lost his way long ago. If you listen to Isiah Thomas on NBA TV you can see that Isiah knows what is going on and he can spot a turd really quick and would never allow that turd on a Piston team.

I bring up the Bucks a lot for a reality check. That organization with John Hammond know what the hell they are doing and finally have scored really big. if Detroit had just one of several players they have on that team, things would change. No quality player wants to play with the current group of Piston players Stan Van Gundy has signed. Detroit is doomed for years of being the Washington Generals. Imagine Smith or Jackson defending any of the Bucks ball handlers. They all run the court in 3 seconds UNDER CONTROL. They are smart and see the floor. There is no nonsense with the point guards dribbling around using 12 to 15 seconds of the shot clock. This must be what SVG wants because that is what we have seen since he arrived.

Is Pope the same type of player that K. Middleton has become? Is he as smart as Middleton? Can he move to the correct spots on the floor and knock down mid range shots like Middleton? And Pope is one of the best players on this Piston team but if you are a smart management person there is no way you would pay anything near Middleton's salary which is $15 million. Pope is not the same type of player. It is not worth anyone's time to go through the list of the other players on the Piston roster. None are alpha dogs who can compete with the Bucks young starters. When Labon starts to fade along with the other older quality players in the league, the Bucks will be ready to take over. The Pistons will still be behind the teams who will be rebuilding. Somehow our management refuses to go down to the bottom and get one really great player. They are cowards. Fire Stan Van Gundy and bring in Isiah Thomas to run the Pistons. He will do the right thing.

[WTF]

As long as we keep this wait an see approach oppose to a win now approach this team will continue to spin it wheel in this same sorry sad place it's been in since 2009. Really since 2004 watching Joe sit on his hands until he finally was force to resign.

I know you all think that every player over time will magically become what you're all hoping. You all did it with every player we drafted from Amir, Delfino, Stuckey, Middleton, Knight, Moose, Andre, KCP and now Stanley Johnson etc and so on. A lot of the failure has been a result of coaching but another chunk of disappointment comes in all that overstating of talent that we need to watch every turd bloom into the greatness of our imagination.

Seriously if it takes us eating a bad deal or two so be it as lond as the team moving in the direction of winning now, truth be told who gives a **** about cap and bad contracts if you're deep into the playoffs generating post season dollars. We need to be doing what Boston did, not what Miami did but what Boston did in creating their Big Three.

If the team is so intent on Andre being franchise sadly because we stuck with his ass, so we need to find a KG and Ray Allen to stick next to ass and find us a Rondo in the draft. Blow this **** up, it okay like I said to groom one or two turds if they're hidden behind talent and allowed to grow. We keep adding turds and the pile of **** just gets bigger not better.

[deusXango]

Great post Don!! The Bucks are the anti-Pistons, from top to bottom, and it shows by who's playing and who's home watching.

[cool breeze]

I have one suggestion for all Piston fans so as to forget the current players and coaching staff with the Pistons. Watch the Milwaukee Bucks and see what those players and coaches have done for that city. It was crazy last night. The Bucks were finally playing at home. For those of you who did watch that game you would have to agree that the Bucks performance was SHOCKING. I have not seen such grit and all out effort from any team since the Bulls played in the season when they won their 2nd championship. Every player played with such passion and effort it was beyond beautiful.

GIANNIS =They have a leader and he is only in his early 20s in Giannnis Antetokounmpo. He is intense and alert and takes no prisoners. Jason Kidd was so cool in his post game meeting with the press. Kidd brought out how impressed he is with several of his young players relating to them having STRONG CHARACTER. Kidd provided some key information as to who Giannis is and how he is just scratching the surface of how good he is going to be but Kidd is so impressed with him and feels lucky to be able to coach him because he is a cut above anyone he has ever coached in his life. Giannis has an incredible work ethic and passion for winning and he is going to be winning a lot in the coming years. Giannis loves to play so much that he has inspired his teammates to play the same way he approaches playing defense and offense. In the players interview you can see that this guy is extremely smart. He was on the stage with Middleton who also has a really high basketball IQ and work ethic. They talked about how to go all out when defending the weak side which they feel is the key to winning. Giannis comes out of nowhere to help and block shots and then he runs the court with the basketball at top speed not looking for his shot at first but what potential play can be created based on the situation. That is something that none of our point guards even thinks about at all. The thing that Bucks fans can be happy about is the fact that Jphn Hammond is one of the smartest GMs in the game. He has locked up the Bucks leader for 4 more seasons. How does he do it all so well? The guy is a fantastic ball handler, defender, passer, shooter, motivator, organizer and also is a great man off the court.

K. MIDDLETON = Middleton is making in excess of $15 million but he is worth every penny. Middleton plays hard and smart and is always doing something and never stands around on either end of the floor. Remember when most of us were bitching about the lack of playing time of this guy under the bogus coaches Joe Dumars hired? Remember how Dumars had a brain fart when he decided out of the blue to throw in Middleton for Brandon Jennings along with Knight when the Bucks management and teammates just wanted Jennings gone. Maybe Joe is giving Stan advise now with the Pope free agency hype. Middleton starts the game making 11 points early in the first quarter mostly on mid range jump shots. Did you hear that Stan Van Gundy? No the Bucks do set screens and move without the basketball and they are not always looking to shoot it from beyond the 3 point line. Kidd is old school teaching the fundamentals and getting his players on board doing the simple things. That is what Kidd said last night in the press conference. He said we keep it simple and do the right thing relating to playing as a team not individuals so screening, boxing out, helping etc. becomes fun for all the players. Kidd said we like to have a lot of fun they sure did and the Bucks fans are finally getting on board with this team.

THON MAKER = This is the most impressive playing in my opinion of any player who has played in the NBA this season including Labon James. I say that because I watched this guy playing so hard in the summer league but not having any idea how to play either defense or offense. Now look at him. Kidd said that Maker is much like Giannis. Thon has an incredible work ethic and is extremely smart and quick to pick up every detail that the coaches show him. Look now at Maker in the playoffs. He is starting ahead of Greg Monroe. He is exceptionally tall and thin yet he is really strong and quick. He can handle the ball well, shoot the outside shot, penetrate in the paint and his shot looks great. Best of all he can play extremely fast but still be in control. And watch how wide he spreads his legs on defense. How can anyone get around him. I keep thinking his legs will break the way he runs and twists his body around and jumps so high. Damn this guy is going to be a freak elite NBA player for sure. Both Maker are ENGAGED as SVG which is one of many things Andre Drummond is missing. Andre is AWOL mentally most of the time. He is seldom ready to play. Not Maker. Maker always boxes out and he actually is so quick that he can turn his body around in a split second and face his man who last nigh out weighed Maker by about 70 pounds. That didn't bother Maker at all. What a gem. He is worth the price of admission 3 times over.

GREG MONROE = If you watched Monroe in the first 3 games of this series you would not recognize him. He has lost a ton of weight and now has quick feet and moves his body around on defense really well. He is inspired and a new man playing with these young talented and dedicated Bucks players.

Matt DELLAVEDOVA = What a fantastic pick up by John Hammond. As Kidd said, he wanted Matt so badly over this past summer to bring experience and toughness to the team. I love watching Dellavedova in transition the most. He always stops dribble penetration on 3 on 1 or 3 on 2 breaks. He knows the game so well and executes so well that nobody notices that he is not as quick as his teammates.

JASON TERRY = Kidd is a genius he got Terry for 1.5 million knowing what he would add to this team with experience and how he is one of the best guys to instill great team chemistry there is in the NBA. He works with the young guys especially the Bucks rookie guard.

THE BUCKS START TWO ROOKIES. Did you hear that Mr. Van Gundy? How about you Mr. Gores. No the coaches on this Bucks team are exceptional and Jason Kidd knows who is great and who isn't great. He knows that Detroit's assistant who is in charge of the guards is not good enough to be on his staff. Kidd hand picked coaches who know the fundamentals extremely well and can communicate well with the young players. Eric Hughes, Greg Forster, Stacey Augmon, Sean Sweeney and Joe Prunty have this team rolling in the fast lane. John Hammond has somehow been able to hang on to his job since 2008 and now there is nobody half way close to him in the entire league. What he has done with first hiring Jason Kidd and then being willing to be a loser in order to build a good team gets him the highest marks in my opinion. Who will beat the Bucks or in two more years? Remember when we Piston fans were trying to figure out how long it would take before we would be watching a good solid team? Well like I said the ship as sailed. there is no hope at all that this management team in place will do the right thing which is to start over and go down to the bottom while ridding the team of players who play the opposite way of the Bucks players. We have below average athletes who will never be smart enough, tough enough, fast enough, of coachable enough to ever compete with Giannis led Milwaukee Bucks team. They have at least two if not three super stars in the making. And J. Parker is not playing due to injury. Maybe those shots will stop falling and the Bucks will get some bad breaks from the refs this season but watch out next year. Giannis, Maker, and Middleton will be practicing late at night all summer long while Andre Drummond is watching the View eating potato chips along with some of his teammates. Maybe Stan could coach better if he lost some weight. Then he could talk to Andre about how good he feels when he gets some exercise. How depression it is to see the Bucks finally find not just one but several alpha dog players who are so young yet beating the hell out of much older veterans.

[deusXango]

"Tom Gores and Stan Van Gundy felt they had to kiss Andre Drummond's ass before he signed the insane contract last year."-The Cool Breeze From Tucson

The same sh!t can be said about KCP this year, without benefit of reading beyond the title. KCP is not worth max money regardless of what a lot of outspoken fans say. Big, big, mistake if SVG signs or matches a max; Sign & Trade!!

What's the plan to financially accommodate KCP's signing? Keep broke down Reggie and hope for a miracle, but give Tobias away (who's healthier, more talented, and younger) for a song and dance? What's the plan? Drop Drummond somehow because we see more in KCP than Drummond? What's the logical plan to turn this ship around?!

[Sparma]

For all of the talk of Lonzo Ball going to the Lakers (at #3), the Lakers actually have less than a 50% chance of staying in the top 3 at all. Per Tankathon, their odds of being in the top 3 are 46.9%. AND, their pick is only top 3 protected. Better than 50/50 chance the Lakers' pick goes to Philly this year. The lottery will be fun to follow this year!

The Pistons have a 2.5% chance of landing in the top 3. Not so great, but far from impossible. On the negative side of the ledger, there's a small chance that Miami or (and???) Denver could leapfrog them.

And, btw, what are the odds of the Tigers developing a dominant bullpen in my lifetime?

[cool breeze]

They were both begging Andre to stay. We will give you anything you want, please don't go. Was there any question in anyone's mind when Isiah Thomas signed his 2nd contract? Everyone knew who he was and most of all his heart. Coach Van Gundy should have known about all of Andre Drummond's flaws especially his mental flaws and his lack of ability to grasp basic principles relating to defensive rotations, boxing, positioning when an opposing shot attempt is made so you are not too far under the basket (Whiteside's tip in over Andre Drummond's back), inability to shoot a free throw, inability to set solid screens and of course being the worst big man defending the pick and roll plays. He made those mistakes as often two seasons ago as he did this last season. With all those flaws, Stan Van Gundy and Tom Gortes were still out there kissing Andre Drummond's ass big time. When Andre didn't want to use the shooting coach hired specifically because of Drummond's lame free throw shooting skills, SVG said OK Andre you know what is best for you. This is the way it has been since Drummond arrived in Detroit. Now just imagine how Pop or Kidd would handle those situations. Drummond doesn't know that he doesn't know. He thinks he knows what is best for him and that is what has gotten him in so much trouble throughout his life relating to becoming a solid player. He was not coachable in college and top management along with the head coach have reinforced this idea that Drummond is special and doesn't have to comply with the same rules that apply to the other players. Andre doesn't want to play hard most of the time and that is OK with Tom Gores and Stan Van Gundy. So who is the problem, the owner and the head coach or Andre Drummond? If Andre hadn't had his ass kissed so much would he have bolted to another team last summer? I think he would have and that would have been a really good thing for the Pistons. Instead, Tom Gores would take those phone calls late at night when Andre would complain about his sore toe or maybe that the assistant shooting coach yelled at Andre because he was not practicing his free throws the right way. Oh, don't worry Andre, I will have a talk with Stan about that. You keep shooting those free throws the way you want to and if you don't feel good just slow and don't bother getting your arms above your waist if that hurts too much when you are on defense. That is what I saw all season long, Andre Drummond was so tired that he just couldn't get his arms above his waist so opposing guards could see more clearly in the painted area to make the key pass of the game.

Imagine if tom Gores had called Jason Kidd to relay his conversation with Andre Drummond about some silly complaint. He would have laughed at the owner. What did Stan do on those occasions. Oh please I will do better because I know that Andre is a very sensitive man. Please Andre won't you become more engaged even it is for only 5 minutes?

If the Piston management doesn't find a way to trade Andre Drummond this summer, I suspect most Piston fans will lose interest in the team to the point where the team will be playing before less than 1000 fans a night. They will need to give away thousands of tickets to the kids who after one game of watching the over weight Andre Drummond play defense will lose interest as well.

[Oracle]

I hear a lot of things to do, but again, I caution because if the coaching is bad, it's impossible to see how good or bad the players are if they're not used right. If the assumption is that SVG will be here and he won't change, then and only then do you look at larger scale changes. Also, when we see what works, it's important to not forget it, we need to understand what works and why.

But let's look at what SVG is doing wrong,

Drummond: His first mistake was allowing Drummond to determine what he wanted to work on to get better. Almost any NBA player will want to score more points, but it was DEFENSE that SVG should have forced Drummond to work on, but defense became an after thought, and SVG wonders why Drummond misses so many assignments?

Reggie: Reggie has issues that limit him to 30 minutes or less per game, so why not have him be more of a distributor for 3 quarters, using little energy and utilize others to run the offense through so that he's powered up in the 4th when we need a shot creator? That wasn't a real option this year, but if he stays, that's the only way to make him effective.

Morris: Morris needs to come off the bench, he has no real useful purpose in the starting lineup, we need a real PF to start. That makes Harris our SF and in that position, he's a real mismatch most nights and likely could score more.

Harris: Harris is not a stretch anything, but he can get his shot off and he finishes well at the rim. In addition, he's a great player to run the offense through because he will dish the ball if nothing is there. BTW, on 3 point shooting, only KCP and Reggie improved, everyone was else was well below their career averages.

KCP: Wise has been right all along, but it became very clear this year. It's not that KCP doesn't fit this offense, he doesn't, but it's that he's not remotely used properly. However during one stretch he was used perfectly. When KCP was used like RIP to run the floor, but with the added dimension of passing, his shooting percentage from midrange shot up as did his assists. No one else on this team has KCP's stamina, and beyond him, this is a slow team relative to most NBA teams, which is a bit shocking since we're young.

Stanley: Stanley was likely going to take a step back this year anyway, that's not unusual, but it appeared to me that his shot fell off a cliff the day SVG & crew decided to fix it! His shot wasn't broken, IMO, and only needed some tweaking, but I still think it was too early in his career to jump on that as an issue.

Boban: The mistake here is that SVG couldn't seem to carve out a role for Boban based on matchups at the very least. How freaking hard is it to use the right guy for the job? Evidently it's rocket science, but as Drummond toiled against guys 7' and bigger, SVG never thought to put his monster center on them to cause problems and score better. Hell, he dunks while damn near standing.

Bench Guards: This story is well known, Beno & Ish were great before Reggie came back and then Beno becomes MIA & Ish is poorly used.

Bullock: Please stop talking about Bullock! This dude plays about 10 games a year, he just isn't worth being around unless you like betting if he'll be dressed for play 3 days from now.

If we get another coach or SVG gets religion, I'd keep most of the team except Drummond, whose mental fitness to be great is really the question. This team can excel with almost any decent center, the league is not populated with great centers like the past.

If SVG stays & 4 out 1 in stays: Move KCP, Harris for spot up shooters, the irony of this decision is that Drummond MUST stay for this old silly offense to work!

Finally: Moving Drummond dooms the 4 out 1 in design and we can begin to play modern basketball... what will it be?

[BallinD]

1. I would tell the owner I was ready to fire the coach, or at least make him listen to/consult with Arn Tellum and Isiah Thomas, maybe get Stackhouse in here too to help SVG with all the issues he admitted out of his own mouth all year long were blunders, missteps, stubborn and willful blindness.

2. I would shop Dre and not demand equal value, but I would most pursue perhaps Brook Lopez, picks, another trade partner.  If we can also S&T KCP to the nets (signed to the max) and parlay some of that into improved draft position, I would.  KCP plays hard but he is not the next Kris Middleton, that ship has sailed. I would not make the common mistake of overvaluing our assets.  It is a roll of the dice, but I would roll with Bullock for $5 M and SJ for 2.96 M.  If I could get a flyer on $75k Archie Goodwin in the deal, I'm sure we could adequately replace KCP's production.

3. I would keep Reggie and turn him into a Vinnie Johnson/Jamal Crawford role.  I'm keeping Beno too.

4. Draft like hell...be willing to deal to get a higher pick.

5. Roll with Ish until the next deal brings in a star.

6. Expand the rotation, play a little zone now and then.  

7. Unleash the Boban. Unleash the Bullock, unleash the Weggie attack.  Brook Lopez is the savvy enough vet to cement the whole operation.  With Lopez and Boban passing out of the post, we will be less dependent on great pg play until we can score the next big deal, maybe moving MM and Leuer.  Ish can be a good pg with this lineup.  

Peep this people, the only warhorse that's in the playoffs (as a head coach) is Greg Popovich, and at Stan Van Gundy's best, he was nowhere near to being in the same class as "Pop!" The game has passed him by, he can't assemble a stellar coaching staff to teach these players and he damn sure haven't taught them. His judgement of talent is severely flawed, he's out of touch with the modern day player, and his ego does more coaching than he does. As a result of these things, who has a genuine idea of what we have as a truly competitive team? I include myself in the number who think that coaching makes a difference.

[cool breeze]

I am so tired of all this talk relating to signing KCP. I just took a peak at Boston's salary structure. Thomas is only making $6 million and change. The only player that Boston has over paid on was Horeford who will make around $27 million next year. Boston has gone 2 games down against Chicago. Boston needs a center. Andre will be making around 24 million next season. How about at least trying to work out a deal where Detroit takes on Horeford's salary and we get Boston's number one pick for Andre Drummond??? I can see why Boston might want to obtain Drummond. Boston has a great coach who might get Andre playing a lot better. Drummond doesn't fit with SVG's system which I agree is a lame system at best. The Piston coaching staff is not capable of making players better so we get a solid but over paid power forward in Horeford. The Pistons get the number one pick along with their 12th pick. How could Stan Van Gundy screw that up? We get two quality players in the draft to build a team around. The Pistons have an entirely new look without Andre Drummond as the franchise player. Maybe Detroit would have to throw in Stanley Johnson to make that deal work. I would like to see Johnson stay that is if Andre Drummond is off the team.

It appears Piston management is preparing their fans for more of the same for next season when they leak out information that they will match any offer that comes for KCP. Didn't Dumars do the same thing with Stuckey and ended up bidding against himself? How about the Jackson deal? Who is the better point guard, Thomas or Jackson who is being paid 11 million more than Thomas? How smart was it to pay Jackson 16 million? How smart will it be to pay KCP around that same amount of money? The Pistons need more objective business people running the show. Until a player really shows that they are superior players at their position, no GM should be even thinking about matching offers. Let KCP go. He can be easily replaced for less than half the price he is asking. Paying Pope will sink the ship if it hasn't already sunk. Pope is not a leader. He is not a good shooter. Game film proves that Pope cannot guard top tier guards at either position well. Pope is not a good passer in fact he is a below passer. Pope doesn't see the floor well and is not a high basketball IQ type of player who outsmarts his competition when the game is on the line. So please tell me why in hell would Stan Van Gundy be building up Pope now? How stupid is he? If Van Gundy thinks he can sign Pope for anything in excess of $10 million and then think he can include him in a trade, he has another thing coming. Take a look at how other teams that are successful manage the money.

[deusXango]

I've been openly disgusted with Reggie Jackson being reinstated into the starting lineup when the team had just begun to win on a regular basis and never understood why Tobias Harris was replaced in the starting lineup with Jon Leuer (who's really not a bad player)...why didn't SVG understand the players right to hold a "players only" meeting as they were trying to work things out among themselves? It wasn't a blanket party or anti-establishment meeting, but his speaking out against it neutered any attempt for leadership to emerge. I could give a grocery list of SVG's shortcomings as a coach, but I won't...I've beat the drum long enough calling for a younger, more inventive mind to coach this YOUNG team of ours, but the more I rant, the more support SVG seems to gather.

Peep this people, the only warhorse that's in the playoffs (as a head coach) is Greg Popovich, and at Stan Van Gundy's best, he was nowhere near to being in the same class as "Pop!" The game has passed him by, he can't assemble a stellar coaching staff to teach these players and he damn sure haven't taught them. His judgement of talent is severely flawed, he's out of touch with the modern day player, and his ego does more coaching than he does. As a result of these things, who has a genuine idea of what we have as a truly competitive team? I include myself in the number who think that coaching makes a difference.

I'll be back to rip President Van Gundy, after the draft and seeing who goes and who stays...I'll be starting with the undiscussed, dumb ass, firings of Arnie Kander and Rasheed Wallace...there was improvement in Drummonds game under the tutelage of Sheed, and with the lingering injury's we've suffered due to poor conditioning of young players, I can't help but miss Arnie.

[cool breeze]

Regardless of what happens in this playoff series between Toronto and the Bucks, it is very clear to me that those Bucks players have bought in to Kidd's system and if everyone stays healthy will be the team to beat in the Eastern conference in the future. Every player who struggled on other teams now plays better. A great example is the play of Greg Monroe. No longer do you see him breaking the defensive rotation in place and going beyond the free throw line while playing defense and then standing out there while opposing bigs make layups. Now Monroe can do several things much better than he did when he played with Detroit. Middleton is another example of a player Kidd thought highly of when Joe Dumars and his various coaching ignored his talent. All of the Bucks players do the right thing when playing defense. Last night Kidd had his players use a match up zone now and then and the Toronto players never figured that out and spread the floor more to draw some defensive 3 second technicals. Watching the team rotate when opposing players try to use the baseline to penetrate is so cool as well. Kidd is calm on the sidelines never showing his frustration when things are not going well for his team. Kidd and his outstanding assistants know the fundamentals of the game and have had a huge impact on the development of those young players. The mental part of the game where you do not forget the basic fundamentals in tough situations mean all the difference relating to success or failure on the hardwood. While we Piston fans have watched multiple coaching staffs come and go with no player improving in any way, the management under Hammond and his head coach, Jason Kidd should be recognized as an outstanding model for all small market teams. Hammond didn't fool around and try to be good enough to become an 8th seed in the playoffs. No the team when down near the bottom and suffered until they stocked the team with some real athletic smart basketball players. Then they stole a few players from other teams and developed them under great coaching. A team does need to start with players who are capable of competing with the best of the best but as oracle keeps pointing out, you have to have sound coaching or you are doomed for failure.

The Pistons do not have sound coaching right now and haven't had any sound plan created by the front office to get the Pistons moving in the right direction. The failure of the coaching staff to make any one player better this past season is something to be concerned about. If Stan Van Gundy doesn't shake things up in his coaching staff and bring in better coaches to improve guard and big man players, then he needs to go before the start of next season. I see no plan in place do you? Whenever the Detroit Pistons have been successful, they have had hard nosed defensive players who know hoe to shut down opponents during crunch time. The Pistons do not have any shot blockers on the team. That is an incredible fact. How could management not find one shot blocker after all this time? What about guard defensive play where all the guards allow dribble penetration. We now have no guard who can come in and shut down a hot shooter. Something smells within the coaching staff. Stan Van Gundy's planning is suspect as well as he had acquired too many of the same kind of players with none who are good defenders. Maybe that is why gets recognitions for his defense. I still say he is not a top rated defender in the NBA. He cannot stop dribble penetration when he ttys to defend John Wall, Irving, Beal, etc. Could he be a better defenders if he had better coaching or better defensive minded big men to defend the pick and roll plays? Where are you Mr. Gores????? Are you not upset with the coaching and the players who are stealing from you? The Pistons need leadership from the top. Will that happen?

[cool breeze]

On March 1, 1952 The New Yorker magazine printed the same quotation that appeared in The Saturday Evening Post: We liked Willie Sutton's explanation of his chosen career. When asked why he robbed banks, Willie replied, “I rob banks because that's where the money is.”

KCP deserves a raise, and he'll get it. I hate to saddle him with the mistakes made by SVG, but I can't see how he's earned a 20M payday. I'd feel comfortable around 15M, which is more than you like, but I would consider that a fair price. If KCP doesn't, he can also opt to do as Monroe did and wait to become unrestricted or take another offer if the Pistons let him go.

But the problem is exactly as you described, and KCP has absolutely nothing to do with it. 

As the article on the side states, the Pistons paid 108M hard earned bucks to MISS the playoffs! We have the 7th highest payroll in the freaking league and the results are pitiful!

It's not what KCP makes, that's in the mud, SVG needs to go where the money is on this team to straighten this mess out! The guys making all of that money and not producing is the problem.

I won't jump all over Reggie because that's injury related, but Drummond was as healthy as a horse, and there was absolutely no good reason for the season he had. When Reggie went down, Drummond should have been the guy demanding excellence and leading by example to pick up the slack!

Reggie has said this a million times, when their big man is animated and motivated, the rest of the team feels like they can't be beat! I've been as hard on Reggie as the next guy, but Drummond may be the bigger(no pun intended) issue!

There is no doubt that SVG's rant was directed to both Drummond and Johnson. Do I know Johnson anymore? I couldn't recognize him at all. He was treated as a fringe player and acted like a fringe player. I know he hates Stan Van Gundy's offense where the ball and players do not move much and the offense that I saw 90% of the time involved the point guard playing one side of the floor which was opposite of where Johnson was told to stand. My frustration with Johnson is that he stopped doing a lot of the team things he did as a rookie. Johnson is a guy who gets deflections and steals, will double team to help on defense, and will never allow his man to get around him for a layup. His heart wasn't in it. Something is wrong with him. Maybe with his Mother passing away who was his rock and coach since he started to walk has left him empty. I have my doubts that he will be around in Piston land when training camp begins. Somehow if SVG does not trade him, I am hoping that Johnson remembers his original goal he would tell his mom which was to be a key player on an NBA team and to win a championship. For sure I suspect wherever he plays, he will not come back with the same shooting technique that the coaching staff helped create for him.He did what he was told relating to the release and set up for his jumper.

SVG has good reason to be pissed at his players but he needs to look in the mirror as well which he said he will do. You have said it along with many other fans that Van Gundy has ignored who his players really are and has rammed this stupid offense he created down their throats and refused to admit it never worked. Stan was the guy who allowed his point guards to dribble too much so the average time left in the shot clock for each possession was around 12 seconds by the time the point guard made his initial pass if they made one at all. Stan just sat there happy as a clam on most nights which made me think he was somewhere in outer space most of the time.
Stan needs to fire the coach who works with the guards as well as the coach who is responsible for the big men. No guard and no big man has improved under their watch in fact both groups of players are worse than the previous season. The Pistons need a hard nosed guy like Kevin Garnett to work with the bigs. He would be on Andre Drummond so much that Andre would not dare come into training camp out of shape and over weight. And Garnett has a way of teaching the facts of life to players who are not fit mentally. Andre Drummond is not fit mentally to play the game of basketball in the NBA at least. He is a pick up type of player right now and if Stan were honest with himself, he would only pencil in Andre Drummond as a back up center good for maybe 10 to 17 minutes per game next year. When the head coach says to his 20 million dollar man that he needs to be more engaged, that means the coach is dealing with a small child in a big body which is the worst thing possible. I have my doubts that even Kevin Garnett could not make any headway but it is worth a shot if Drummond is impossible to trade.

I keep hoping that some team that needs a big center that has a potential high draft pick this year will want to take a chance on Andre Drummond and Piston management is smart enough to take any of that team's players as long as they can keep the 12th pick along with a top 5 pick. That could change the culture of Piston basketball.

Finally on KCP, WE FLAT OUT NEED AN UPGRADE AT THAT POSITION. I am still against signing him for any amount that will prevent the Pistons from trading him and I do not believe he could be traded if the Pistons pay anything more than 9 to 10 million. I even think that is extremely high based on the game he offers. Pope just has way too many flaws in his game especially his lack of explosiveness and poor ball handling skills. Most of the time players are born with that gift. All NBA top tier guards have the quick first step and have amazing ball control and can see the small holes in the defense with the exception of a few guards who are incredible long range shooters. KCP is not a driver or quality mid range or 3 point shooter. I am amazing that he is getting this much attention by Stan Van Gundy.

Reggie had the gift I am talking about. He could somehow penetrate through a tiny crack and finish at the rim with two big guys trying to stop him. Reggie Jackson would be a better option at 2 guard if he comes back healthy and can improve his ability to defend. Reggie has great quickness and has those long arms that should help him become an outstanding defender. But there is a big question as to his health and I am not talking about his knee. And Reggie has yet to make a commitment to explore his potential on the defensive end. Like Andre, he could be a great defender but just doesn't care enough about the team he plays on to make the change. As Reggie is almost impossible to trade based on last season and his contract, I am pulling for him to come back and be the MAN again and kick ass on defense. That is asking a lot I know but if Detroit could draft an outstanding point guard and move Reggie at times to the 2 guard, the offense might start clicking.

Please please please trade Andre Drummond to include a top 5 draft pick Mr. Van Gundy. Stan knows he doesn't want to coach Drummond for another long season. And I don't want to watch him ever again. The memory of that one play at the biggest moment at the time of the entire season when Drummond failed to even jump and did not box out Whiteside who easily tipped in the winning basket. Drummond should have been benched along with Jackson for the remainder of the season. Wasn't that on the night at the Palace when Ban Wallace was honored??? Was the Miami game Big Ben night? That was just another game for Andre Drummond might have been worried that he was late to the party. I can't see how Tom Gores can bring back Andre Drummond unless he never watches the games anymore.

[Oracle]

This sounds like a direct message to Drummond & Stanley Johnson... ouch!!!

"I will say I'm not totally happy with our professionalism and the way we approach things. That's going to have to change and part of that is going to have to come from us being a little bit stricter and tougher with them on things in our expectations and part of it is going to have (to be) from them."

In particular, Van Gundy took aim at younger players for failing to conduct themselves in a professional manner.

"You've been in the league four or five years - let's take care of yourself better, let's be more ready, pay more attention to the game plan, get our extra work in, be more dedicated to the lifting. All those things.(Drummond?)

"The young part has to go by the wayside as an excuse. You're a professional and you're getting paid. If you don't want that responsibility, don't come out after one year. If you want to come out after one year, then you decided you wanted to be a pro - be a freaking pro."(Stanley?)

[Oracle]

On March 1, 1952 The New Yorker magazine printed the same quotation that appeared in The Saturday Evening Post: We liked Willie Sutton's explanation of his chosen career. When asked why he robbed banks, Willie replied, “I rob banks because that's where the money is.”

KCP deserves a raise, and he'll get it. I hate to saddle him with the mistakes made by SVG, but I can't see how he's earned a 20M payday. I'd feel comfortable around 15M, which is more than you like, but I would consider that a fair price. If KCP doesn't, he can also opt to do as Monroe did and wait to become unrestricted or take another offer if the Pistons let him go.

But the problem is exactly as you described, and KCP has absolutely nothing to do with it. 

As the article on the side states, the Pistons paid 108M hard earned bucks to MISS the playoffs! We have the 7th highest payroll in the freaking league and the results are pitiful!

It's not what KCP makes, that's in the mud, SVG needs to go where the money is on this team to straighten this mess out! The guys making all of that money and not producing is the problem.

I won't jump all over Reggie because that's injury related, but Drummond was as healthy as a horse, and there was absolutely no good reason for the season he had. When Reggie went down, Drummond should have been the guy demanding excellence and leading by example to pick up the slack!

Reggie has said this a million times, when their big man is animated and motivated, the rest of the team feels like they can't be beat! I've been as hard on Reggie as the next guy, but Drummond may be the bigger(no pun intended) issue!

[cool breeze]

We all want a star player(or two) here, but are we really ready for that player?

It's too early for a player like Carmelo, aging guys need to go to teams already competing for a championship, not a team trying to get respectable.

Do we really need a star player or a player that is close but not quite there yet?

Jimmy Butler fits the sweet spot, he's 27, so he could be good during the window for this team.

However, the ideal age would be closer to 24 years old.

Both present quandaries for the Pistons, young stars are not generally available, mid age stars know what they want and where they should go, making both hard to obtain.

Which leaves us in a strange situation which likely requires a big gamble: Trade for a star from a team that knows he's likely to leave them and pray that we show enough to resign him... Risky with a capital R !

There was talk of Jackson for Bledsoe. Bledsoe has a sordid injury history, but at least he can play major minutes if healthy.

I'm glad I don't have to navigate these waters, building competitive teams is very tough stuff!

Oracle I have been in the panic mode lately after watching some of the playoff games and thinking that Piston management doesn't know that the most highly paid Piston players are the main cause of the dysfunction this season. But Now I believe that I am wrong and Stan Van Gundy knows exactly what he has to work with and if there is any possible option he will move Andre Drummond, Reggie jackson and Leuer for possibly some sub par scrubs if the deal includes a top 5 draft pick. If that could happen there will be some good point guards and Stan might get one. Whatever needs to be done to get in position for a top 5 pick, that is the direction the Pistons need to go. We need a superior player to build a team around. If it takes including Stanley Johnson then do it.

By the way, Arron Gordon had a sub par season in his 2nd season much like Stanley Johnson and he commented on that recently with people here in Tucson. Over last summer, Gordon made big strides and has now established himself as a player to watch in his role as a starting power forward. Gordon killed the Pistons in the last game of the season. He could play great defense, rebound and block shots well but had no touch with his mid range and 3 point shot in his first two seasons as a pro. Now has a go to move with that 10 foot step back jumper. Gordon's biggest asset is his fantastic motor and runs the court like a deer and of course his his work ethic. Johnson also has a great work ethic and I am sure he will figure things out but perhaps not with the Pistons. If Stan has to include Morris and Johnson both having favorable contracts, this has to be done now because of the huge mistake of paying Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson the bulk of the payroll. Getting one alpha dog will change everything and of course removing Drummond's negative impact on the team will make Detroit fun to watch again. Maybe Boston would like to take Drummond off our hands. Wouldn't it be sweet to get the first overall pick in this coming draft???

Finally I will again voice my opposition to sign Pope for anything near what he is asking. The key thing to know is that Pope does not have a quick enough first step like players such as Bradley Beal. He also is a below average ball handler. Finally, Pope is not a natural driver being his has issues changing direction because he takes long strides wen trying to move closer to the basket. I would like to see Pope on the Piston team if he would only accept something near 8 to 10 million per season. I would give Bullock another shot.

[Oracle]

We all want a star player(or two) here, but are we really ready for that player?

It's too early for a player like Carmelo, aging guys need to go to teams already competing for a championship, not a team trying to get respectable.

Do we really need a star player or a player that is close but not quite there yet?

Jimmy Butler fits the sweet spot, he's 27, so he could be good during the window for this team.

However, the ideal age would be closer to 24 years old.

Both present quandaries for the Pistons, young stars are not generally available, mid age stars know what they want and where they should go, making both hard to obtain.

Which leaves us in a strange situation which likely requires a big gamble: Trade for a star from a team that knows he's likely to leave them and pray that we show enough to resign him... Risky with a capital R !

There was talk of Jackson for Bledsoe. Bledsoe has a sordid injury history, but at least he can play major minutes if healthy.

I'm glad I don't have to navigate these waters, building competitive teams is very tough stuff!

[cool breeze]

KCP: The Pistons have come to the same conclusion those of us who have clearly thought this thing through have. It was a combination of Stanley Johnson looking like crap and the CAP situation being so bad. But the really smart thing is that they said that they will MATCH any offer! This is smart because it will limit the teams that will make an offer because they know it's a waste of time, which will likely allow us to sign KCP for LESS than the max! It also gives us a lucrative trade piece to get better. However, KCP should see this as him being the Pistons 3rd choice, they hoped for Stanley, then they wished they could do better, but settled for him... watch out!

The Pistons plan to match any offer that restricted free agent Kentavious Caldwell-Pope receives, according to Vince Ellis of The Detroit Free Press.

The organization is prepared to give the fourth-year shooting guard a maximum deal if that’s what it takes to keep him in Detroit, Ellis adds, with several sources saying he is an important part of the team’s future.

Caldwell-Pope averaged 13.8 points, 3.3 rebounds and 2.6 assists per game this season, but his numbers declined after the All-Star break. Ellis states that the Pistons may have viewed the situation differently if they were confident that Stanley Johnson was ready to become a starter, but they believe keeping Caldwell-Pope is vital and they wouldn’t be able to get an adequate replacement because of their cap situation.

Then they're doing the other logical thing... keep the pressure on Reggie & Drummond, and keep shopping their asses... and at least start the process of picking up a star player!

Trade talks involving Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson will continue this offseason. Ellis states that the organization is becoming impatient with Drummond, with coach/executive Stan Van Gundy saying in Friday’s press conference that he needs a “sense of urgency to elevate his game.” Jackson’s drop in production stemmed from left knee tendinitis that plagued him throughout the season, and Ellis claims the only available replacement who might be an upgrade is the Suns’ Eric Bledsoe.

The Pistons believe they have enough young players and future first-rounders to acquire a star this offseason. There were rumors that Drummond was offered to the Kings for DeMarcus Cousins before he was sent to New Orleans, and a source told Ellis the Pistons contacted the Pacers about Paul George but never got close to a deal. George has another season left before he can opt out, and Detroit might be interested in taking the chance that it can re-sign him, but only if the price in a trade comes down. Other targets could include Jimmy Butler(KCP, youngsters and a first?) and Carmelo Anthony.

The part about Detroit Management's contact with Indiana to talk about obtaining Paul George is really funny. Stan's management team is fooling Tom Gores big time. Who in their right mind would ever think that Larry Bird would allow Andre Drummond on his team let alone give up Paul George for him even knowing that he might lose George in another season. Yes this Piston management team is working really hard to act busy. Will Tom Gores be willing to throw in a lot of money to move any of his highly paid players or all of them? That is what he will have to do to get them out of a Piston uniform. Andre Drummond most likely is sitting around eating potato chips and laughing a lot while counting his money. Everybody is happy in the Drummond household. Is Tom Gores pacing the floor wearing out his hardwood floors? How much money will Tom have to come up with Stan? Who will take Leuer for 3 million a year? Will someone pay $4 million for Smith? How about Jackson what will it take to move him? But Drummond will cost this owner big money for many years so the spin will be that Andre is very young still and of course will get a lot better. Maybe at best Stan can make a small trade involving Johnson and Morris. Once Pope is signed to another amazing Stan Van Gundy deal, then Tom will have to get the check book out again if they need to move him. If you were a GM and if you had to take one of two players which player would you gamble on when thinking of Bullock or Pope. Would you agree to sign Bullock for $4 million/ 3 years or Pope for $16-$20 million/4 years? Who wouldn't take Bullock and keep your team options open for the future even knowing that Bullock might still have back issues??

[cool breeze]

If any Piston fans stops and thinks for more than three seconds you will remember exactly how KCP performed for every season he has been a Piston player. It is easy for me to look at the really effective 2 guards in the NBA and see the difference between them and Pope. You would think Piston management believes they have Bradley Beal. Every 2 guard that I see that starts in the NBA is an above average ball handler and has an exceptionally first step that allows them to blow by defenders. Pope takes long strides and has great difficulty dribbling the ball when attempting to drive off the 3 point line. He is a 3 point specialist at best who shoots a below average percentage when compared to other 2 guards. Reggie Bullock in my mind has better potential if he could avoid injury. Kobe Simmons the skinny combo guard listed in the 2nd round of this draft is a very good 3 point shooter and has the ability to also play point guard. He can also defend well but lacks meat on his bones at this time. I only mention Simmons because right now he can pass the ball better, see the court better, has more explosiveness on his dribble drive and is a far better shooter from distance than Pope will ever be. Pope is not in the category of a guy who should be able to demand more than 8 million a season at best. If the Pistons do the same thing that got them in trouble with the Drummond deal, the Leuer deal and the Jackson deal, then the franchise will be screwed for years to come. Other teams most likely will try to sucker this lame Piston management team into bidding against themselves having no real interest in Pope but having less competition to sign some of the better players available. The other obvious reason why this team should not sign Pope to a big contract is the fact that the team chemistry on this Piston team is about the worst in the entire league. The real truth is that Pope is at best an average defender although I don't believe he is that good yet. He is a gambler who cannot stop dribble penetration and is not a good pick and roll defender. Maybe that has a lot to do with his teammate Andre Drummond and maybe Pope would be a much better player if he didn't have to play with the big Stan Van Gundy franchise player but if the Pistons bring back this same crew nothing will change. The bad chemistry starts with the way both point guards play and the attitude of the starting center. But one thing to think about when remembering how many times the Pistons got blown out in the first quarter is where in hell was Pope when Detroit would allow 35 points and score less than 16 points???? Piston management is trying to be clever and it will end up biting them in the ass again. Once Pope is signed to the big contract, they will not be able to trade him If I can identify Pope's weaknesses than do you think that there is one GM in the league who hasn't figured out that Pope is nothing more than a C rated player at best???If that is correct based on the facts only, then Pope will be playing along side Drummond, Jackson, Leuer for many seasons to come. Piston management will create new story lines to hype up these guys and how hard they work over the summer to eliminate their weaknesses but in the end Detroit will end up with the 11th or 12th pick again and the spin will start all over again. Please look at the players who are effective in the playoffs playing center, small forward, power forward, 2 guard and point guard and see if you can identify any winning team that has players like ours at any position. No they have the players and we don't. So why publish a story about this valuable player that the team cannot live without and must keep at any cost? Why say that? I would be going after Bledsoe this summer and doing anything to get more draft picks. Did any team call Dumars after he signed Stuckey to his last contract and then sat the bench a lot? I believe that Stuckey is a far superior player when compared with Pope.

Instead of looking for ways to spend more money, Stan Van Gundy needs to look for ways to get rid of Drummond, Jackson, Leuer, Smith, Morris, Harris and possibly Stanley Johnson. doesn't that about cover the defective player list. Isn't it possible to work out a sign and trade for Pope? We need a new core of players who can create better team chemistry and are willing to play all out more consistently.

Stan Van Gundy wants better 3 point shooting. Is he mad? Teams that win in the playoffs play effective defense when it counts. This Piston team does not play even average defense when it counts if they play the starters together. What an idiot we have running the show. Look at those Bucks players with the long arms and the quick feet who are in outstanding physical condition led by a smart coach. The Piston players are soft. They need to wear the teal uniforms to feel comfortable. They do not belong in Detroit. That is not the Pistons culture.

Doesn't it bother anyone that this current team looks like they have never practiced together even once before they play a regular season game? Will SVG bring back the same assistant coaches? How about hiring Kevin Garnett to light a fire under Andre' Drummond's ass? And if that happened would Stan Van Gundy cave in when Drummond complained that he didn't like it when Kevin swears at him? Remember that SVG agreed that Drummond could keep his personal assistant coach instead of working with the shooting coach? How did that work out Stan? Who runs the asylum? Tome Gores is throwing around a lot of money (third highest payroll and very expensive coaching and management money) and what is he getting? Doesn't Tom Gores ever ask that question? Will we watch the same lame players next season? YEP! Oh yes we can't live without Pope and what he brings to the table and as a trade asset. We have nothing Piston fans. We only have a healthy team that gets blown out a lot and will get the 12th pick in the draft. As one poster said a few weeks ago, when will we see even one player do one thing well?????

[Sparma]

Thanks for posting that, Oracle.

Let's hope that next season being the most pessimistic doesn't prove to be the winning strategy again. Weird that the most pessimistic guess among the 13 prognosticators still proved to be far too optimistic, even though it was closest to what happened.

The sad news...

Regular Season
Member	Wins
Stones	49
DX	49
Lemonpen	49
Oracle	48
Phil1980boy	47
Sebastian	46
Murph	46
BallinD	45
Merc	45
Wise	45
Fly	44
Cool Breeze	43
Sparma	42
Fennis
Sissy

[Oracle]

KCP: The Pistons have come to the same conclusion those of us who have clearly thought this thing through have. It was a combination of Stanley Johnson looking like crap and the CAP situation being so bad. But the really smart thing is that they said that they will MATCH any offer! This is smart because it will limit the teams that will make an offer because they know it's a waste of time, which will likely allow us to sign KCP for LESS than the max! It also gives us a lucrative trade piece to get better. However, KCP should see this as him being the Pistons 3rd choice, they hoped for Stanley, then they wished they could do better, but settled for him... watch out!

The Pistons plan to match any offer that restricted free agent Kentavious Caldwell-Pope receives, according to Vince Ellis of The Detroit Free Press.

The organization is prepared to give the fourth-year shooting guard a maximum deal if that’s what it takes to keep him in Detroit, Ellis adds, with several sources saying he is an important part of the team’s future.

Caldwell-Pope averaged 13.8 points, 3.3 rebounds and 2.6 assists per game this season, but his numbers declined after the All-Star break. Ellis states that the Pistons may have viewed the situation differently if they were confident that Stanley Johnson was ready to become a starter, but they believe keeping Caldwell-Pope is vital and they wouldn’t be able to get an adequate replacement because of their cap situation.

Then they're doing the other logical thing... keep the pressure on Reggie & Drummond, and keep shopping their asses... and at least start the process of picking up a star player!

Trade talks involving Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson will continue this offseason. Ellis states that the organization is becoming impatient with Drummond, with coach/executive Stan Van Gundy saying in Friday’s press conference that he needs a “sense of urgency to elevate his game.” Jackson’s drop in production stemmed from left knee tendinitis that plagued him throughout the season, and Ellis claims the only available replacement who might be an upgrade is the Suns’ Eric Bledsoe.

The Pistons believe they have enough young players and future first-rounders to acquire a star this offseason. There were rumors that Drummond was offered to the Kings for DeMarcus Cousins before he was sent to New Orleans, and a source told Ellis the Pistons contacted the Pacers about Paul George but never got close to a deal. George has another season left before he can opt out, and Detroit might be interested in taking the chance that it can re-sign him, but only if the price in a trade comes down. Other targets could include Jimmy Butler(KCP, youngsters and a first?) and Carmelo Anthony.

[Oracle]

I saw the Zeke mini movie, and I don't think you have to tell a Piston fan to watch it all the way through, you can't stop watching it, it's so good.

I know you're deep into your negative mode, and I also feel the disappointment you feel, but let's really apply some logic to this mess.

Reality Check:
1. Last year the east was FAR superior to the west from top to bottom! The level of ball was miles ahead of what is being played this season.
2. Last season a weaker Piston team won 44 games... 44 games against the best competition which doesn't exist this year. 44 wins was barely enough to make 8th seed, but would have been a higher seed in the west.
3. 44 wins this year would have put them in 5th place, but realistically, 44 wins last year are likely equivalent to 50-54 wins this year, which could put the Pistons in the top 3 or top of the east.

So you really believe that the Bucks & Pacers who couldn't break 42 wins against the worst of the worst competition are miles ahead of the Pistons?

Any sensible analysis, IMO, would have to conclude that something structurally went wrong with the Pistons this year, it's an aberration, not a trend or a true reflection on either coach or players.

That obviously doesn't mean that there aren't lessons to learn and changes to make, but a wholesale giving up on players that produced last years result is unreasonable.

The first cut is to see which players improved and which ones didn't. For those that didn't improve, we need to understand why and see if it's correctable and in a lot of cases, they may have been the victim of forces beyond their control, like bad coaching.

It's complicated, but interestingly, you picked the two teams that by your analysis should have gutted their roster last year, but neither did!

[Oracle]

The sad news...

Regular Season
Member	Wins
Stones	49
DX	49
Lemonpen	49
Oracle	48
Phil1980boy	47
Sebastian	46
Murph	46
BallinD	45
Merc	45
Wise	45
Fly	44
Cool Breeze	43
Sparma	42
Fennis
Sissy

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