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Re: FORUM

Post  merc on Sun May 07, 2017 6:48 pm

Sparma wrote:Braden Shackelford writes: "I’m good losing either player for the right price. I think Jackson has to net shooting help or a first round pick. The same with Drummond, though the first rounder needs to be a top-five pick or future pick that should land in that area."

Sure, but would anyone pay that "right price"?  I'm afraid that rest of league would see those returns as really inflated prices.  If another team sees that as the "right price," go for it.
Good points Sparma.... I could see the Lakers showing interest in Dre (especially after he dominated them)... possibly swapping picks and they throw in mid level type player (Mozgov?).
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Trade Drummond?

Post  deusXango on Sun May 07, 2017 6:39 pm

The only player(s) I'm willing to trade Andre Drummond for would be Kristaps Porzingas and Melo Anthony...I'd even throw in Mook Morris to make this work...Morris and Johnson in fact! I can see Phillip going for this type of trade, but what would be SVG's problem with it? Why aren't trade scenarios like this rumored about around Detroit, even though they don't stand a snowball's chance? I can hear fans now, "why don't we send our #12 also?"
Porzingas, Ellenson, and Anthony would make a great starting frontline for Detroit, and Harris is finally playing a logical role as 6th man.

I don't want to go to war with Jackson and KCP as our starting backcourt, but if we could get more youth and skill in the frontcourt, and reliable outside shooting, I'm all for the teams best avenue to follow. I'm really trying to draft or draft and trade to acquire Ntilikina and Ferguson for the immediate future...I like the promise of those two international schooled players.
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If only ...

Post  Sparma on Sun May 07, 2017 4:14 pm

Braden Shackelford writes: "I’m good losing either player for the right price. I think Jackson has to net shooting help or a first round pick. The same with Drummond, though the first rounder needs to be a top-five pick or future pick that should land in that area."

Sure, but would anyone pay that "right price"?  I'm afraid that rest of league would see those returns as really inflated prices.  If another team sees that as the "right price," go for it.
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sun May 07, 2017 11:50 am

Oracle wrote:I know everybody wants to trade KCP, but I still see a future with Stanley & KCP defending good enough to be a devastating duo, but honestly, it'll only work if we have some rim protection.

The days are long gone where there are such things as lock down defenders, defense is a team game and you need at least 2, but preferably 3 good defenders to make it work.
http://pistonpowered.com/2017/05/07/reggie-jackson-andre-drummond-neither/ wrote:My reasoning is simple. I think the Pistons are better off getting younger and handing the reins to Caldwell-Pope, Johnson, and Henry Ellenson. Adding in top-tier talent through the draft that trading Drummond could potentially acquire, and the Pistons’ future suddenly looks much brighter.

Moreover, Jackson has serious long-term health issues and Drummond likely has no chances of masking his crippling weaknesses.

That said, the things Drummond does do well, he does exceptionally well. He’s also young and locked up long-term. That’s something that the Pistons can’t afford to let walk for next to nothing.

BTW, I do hope we can draft Zack Collins, I like both his defense and offense, but as always, there are a few questions, but hopefully they aren't show stoppers.

After reading Brandon's article you positioned in your post, I felt HOPE for the first time in weeks. The thought that Piston management may have seen the light and are at least trying to make a big change in the right direction by moving on without Reggie and Andre gets me excited. I keep looking at Boston and the possibility of getting that first overall pick for Andre Drummond. That would be a miracle for the Pistons. I doubt that Brad Stevens would want to take on Drummond but Horeford might be able to prod Drummond to get in better shape at least. Who else might bite on Andre Drummond? Paul George has been spotted with Reggie Jackson in Boston for a recent playoff game and the announcers said they were close friends. Would the Pacers want Drummond? George has one year left in his contract I believe. Rumors were that George might want to sign with the Lakers. I would take George for one season if that option was a possibility just to rid the Pistons of Drummond's contract. If Stan Van Gundy has decided that he will pursue any possible trade option involving Jackson and Drummond, I would be impressed. Drummond needs to go. Jackson is a mystery man relating to his physical health. Reggie Jackson has the gift of being able to create his own shot unlike all the other Piston players. With an All Star player like George being even more of a threat to score, Detroit could be a handful and a playoff team again. Waiting until the trade deadline might make it impossible to move Drummond. I suspect he will be the same player or worse next season. If I were SVG, I would look hard at any offer for Andre Drummond.

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I agree with this...

Post  Oracle on Sun May 07, 2017 9:56 am

I know everybody wants to trade KCP, but I still see a future with Stanley & KCP defending good enough to be a devastating duo, but honestly, it'll only work if we have some rim protection.

The days are long gone where there are such things as lock down defenders, defense is a team game and you need at least 2, but preferably 3 good defenders to make it work.
http://pistonpowered.com/2017/05/07/reggie-jackson-andre-drummond-neither/ wrote:My reasoning is simple. I think the Pistons are better off getting younger and handing the reins to Caldwell-Pope, Johnson, and Henry Ellenson. Adding in top-tier talent through the draft that trading Drummond could potentially acquire, and the Pistons’ future suddenly looks much brighter.

Moreover, Jackson has serious long-term health issues and Drummond likely has no chances of masking his crippling weaknesses.

That said, the things Drummond does do well, he does exceptionally well. He’s also young and locked up long-term. That’s something that the Pistons can’t afford to let walk for next to nothing.

BTW, I do hope we can draft Zack Collins, I like both his defense and offense, but as always, there are a few questions, but hopefully they aren't show stoppers.
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Why the players who hate playing with dysfunctional selfish players thought they had to call for a players only meeting

Post  cool breeze on Sat May 06, 2017 1:53 pm

Who doesn't know why the players other than Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson thought they had to call for a private meeting where the coaches were not invited? The coaches led by Stan Van Gundy were the problem more than anything else. This lame offense where the point guard dominates the basketball and seldom passes and if so it is only to one other player was the creation of Tim Hardaway and Stan Van Gundy. After watching so many games where point guards forced contested shots and missed which resulted in easy layups by opposing teams, no change was made by the coaching staff. If the point guard didn't shoot the ball then on most possessions the point guard would pass the ball to a player with less than 5 seconds left in the shot clock. Before Reggie returned, both point guards passed the basketball earlier in the half court offense and the first option was not necessarily to throw the ball in the paint to Drummond. Opposing teams would intentionally leave Andre open hoping he would slowly move that over weight body into position to shoot the baseline hook shot. He worked hard on that shot during the summer instead of working with a coach to learn how to defend the pick and roll play and guard the paint properly.

Stan Van Gundy lost control of his team and had no answer when it came to dealing with Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson. Both players did as they wished anytime they wanted. If Andre didn't want to play hard in the first quarter, he didn't and the coach had nothing to say to Andre that had an impact. Reggie came back and was placed in the starting lineup and played horribly on both ends of the floor. Did the head coach notice? Who couldn't but Stan decided to keep him in even when the loses kept piling up. Did the franchise player, Andre Drummond do anything positive to help take the pressure off Reggie after the head coach just sat there as the Pistons were going down in flames? No Andre played with even less energy. Stan Van Gundy was in full damage control mode and blamed everything on the failure of Stanley Johnson. SVG made Johnson into a fringe player instead of a solid rotation player. He took Johnson's confidence away yanking him out of the game and bitching him out before the fans after Johnson failed to touch the basketball unless he got a rebound or took the ball from an opponent. They targeted Johnson's jump shot for a good overhaul before the season started. There was so much attention on Johnson's jump shot while at the same time Andre Drummond told the coach that he didn't want to work at all with the shooting coach. Drummond's free throw shooting was not big enough problem in coach SVG's eyes so he said OK don't worry you do whatever you decide is best for you Andre. If you want to put on some extra weight go ahead and eat as much as you want. And thanks again for signing that contract big guy we love you. Two sets of standards were employed by Mr. Van Gundy and his assistant coaches for players.

The players could no longer trust the coaching staff or the head coach. That is why they called for a players only meeting. The head coach and his most trusted assistant coaches were tight with Drummond and Jackson. All the players knew it and they hated that experience. They thought that maybe by confronting the players who were not team orientated and freezing out players on offense, change would happen to improve chances of winning more games or at least not getting blown out as much. Drummond and Jackson were forced to comply. Jackson wasn't the player who snitched in what was supposed to be kept PRIVATE with only the players knowing what had been talked about. Can you imagine how the players felt after Andre Drummond started flapping his jaw like a loose cannon after the meeting? The players obviously lost hope after that happened. But they had lost all hope that the coaching staff would do the right thing before the meeting. That is to me the most important message the players got out. But the press never investigated or published one article about how the players other than Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond felt about the coaching staff or playing with the two franchise players. Any former player who has watched the dysfunction on defense and the selfishness on offense this past season would have said to themselves that they would not want to play on that team or that type of team at a lower level. The coaching staff was enforcing all of the dysfunction. Van Gundy would make statements about lack of effort etc. In my mind, Stan Van Gundy has lost all credibility. He has created a monster with his special rules for certain players. The players who object to his pet players will be punished maybe not as harshly as citizens of the former Soviet Union but never the less team chemistry has gone down the toilet and into the sewer.

If Van Gundy is not fired he must at least attempt to destroy what he has created. He needs to install Harris as the captain and team leader. He needs to trade Drummond and Jackson and get whatever scraps he can in return. He need to allow the players to try to re form a bond of one for all and all for one to restore the HEART this team has LOST. The way it stands now, how will Johnson and Harris approach the off season? Do they expect to be traded before training camp? If that happens and it might then how many of us will watch another game as long as Stan Van Gundy is in charge? Will we forget what happened when Reggie and Andre walk out in their Piston uniforms? Will we pull for them to lose because of what they stand for and what Van Gundy stands for? Van Gundy, Drummond and Jackson want the fans to forget about the players only meeting where we found out that at least one snitch betrayed his teammates and management reacted in a way that was disgraceful. Stan Van Gundy showed everyone including his players that he had the backs of his chosen leaders, Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond. The rest of the players are considered to be expendable. So who will listen to Stan Van Gundy now. Andre Drummond never listened to him Reggie Jackson did his own thing and never listened to SVG. And now he has lost the rest of the players. Good luck Stan. My best guess is that the owner had some input in this thing and maybe it was an innocent type of response because he had grown close to Drummond before he signed his big contract. We will never know but anyone with half a brain should know that in the NBA you let your players work things out. If a players like Andre Drummond comes out crying and spilling the beans, you ignore that kind of person.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Sat May 06, 2017 12:37 am

Oracle wrote:@Ballin - Yeah, I'm the last one to get the memo  lol

@Don - Yes, that was a great post by DX. I'm the first to say that our biggest problem this year was SVG, he failed this team a lot, some of which I forgive, but trashing that team meeting isn't one of them. That was just plain stupid and undercut the developing leadership and internal accountability that every team needs. If that level of self accountability had been allowed to play out, he wouldn't have to coach effort and enforce defensive rules so much.

@DX - I loved that post on the meeting, but I know you guys won't like it, but this was a potent team when the offense ran through Harris & KCP. Coaching can make or break a team, especially when there are no super stars present, which is our case.

Finally, here is an article to read: 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/the-nba-is-facing-a-bigger-issue-than-the-warriors-dominance/ss-BBALIXH?ocid=spartandhp wrote:Ask the average sports fan the biggest problem with the NBA, and they might very well point to the Golden State Warriors.

The Association's greatest superteam is steamrolling its way to the Finals. Their second-round playoff opponent, the Utah Jazz, haven't led for a single second of their series, and Golden State has won its six games so far by an average of 16.5 points. Yet as much as we bemoan such dominance, we really do love dynasties. Professional basketball has been its healthiest during the least competitive stretches.

There's a far more insidious crisis facing the NBA — a trend that's suppressing ratings, feeding into criticism of the game, and casting a cloud over what should be an increasingly bright future.We're talking, of course, about the incessant flopping in all its various forms.

Oracle I liked the article you provided. Funny Golden State was used rather than Cleveland. But then one would need to get into the special rules accorded Labron James. It seems that the NBA front office does not care that the fans of teams opposing Cleveland have been mocking the officials for several years. They keep track of the fouls called and not called against Labron and chant at their home games. What else can they do? The Pacers last playoff game featured two situations that got Indiana fans turned off with the NBA. Labron was out of position in the paint when Thadious Young had the ball. Labron used his left arm to go through Young's body and then hit Young with his shoulder knocking him to the floor. Everyone was expecting a whistle but when no official had the balls to make that call being it was after all Labron James, then James picked up the ball and took it down for a layup. Until that play, most people watching the game thought that Indiana would win the game. But just to seal the win so Cleveland could make it to the finals well rested without a loss, They allowed Labron to take the ball coast to coast with Paul George perfectly set with his feet outside the dotted line when Labron lowered his big shoulder and knocked George 10 yards off the court. The whistle blew and the foul was called on George after Labron calmly made the layup. Basketball is a game of confidence. When you are really good and have the officials in your pocket that gives a player supreme confidence.There is good reason why a lot of fans pull for any team that is playing against a team that Labron James plays on. James is so great the NBA Front office does not need to create special rules. And they hurt the NBA brand a lot more than they help it by meddling. that was a good series between Indiana and Cleveland. Indiana had a real star player in George. He never got a break.

Bringing up this story about the players only team meeting and how it played out needs to be talked about until the truth comes out. The players who called for the meeting had only one purpose in mind. They were concerned about losing and the team not playing the right way. You mentioned that the offense went though Harris and KCP a a lot more when Smith and Beno were playing point guard. As I recall that time period, all of the players on the floor were more involved with the offense and the team functioned better on the defensive end as well. That is all but Andre Drummond. Maybe he played with more energy then but it was also earlier in the season before January and Feb. when you see a players' true colors. Drummond Still screwed up the Pistons pick and roll defense a lot. He would switch at the wrong time when the guard was between his man and the basket. Drummond did it because he was easier to switch and didn't require him to move as his man was rolling to the basket after the opposing guard with the ball had picked up his dribble. It is interesting that coach Van Gundy never was capable of solving Drummond's lack of interest in playing pick and roll defense correctly. imagine you playing guard with Andre on that type of play. You then have to roll to the basket and guard a big player. You can bet that Andre didn't like it when his teammates got on his ass in that team meeting about his decision making skills on the pick and roll play if the players had the courage to tell Andre what they really feel about playing with him knowing the power he has been given by management. Then how would you feel if your teammate Andre Drummond told the press and his coach about the details of the meeting and how they picked on Reggie too much. Did Andre tell his coach that the players didn't like Stan's lame offense too? Then Stan benches Johnson for about two weeks and decides to start Leuer. If one could prove that the coach penalized players for speaking their minds with the purpose of helping to solve the problems with the dysfunction with certain players, this is really big. I have a difficult time believing this could be true but then I have read between the lines relating to what Zeke was saying at the time. Zeke appeared to know what was coming off when the team fell apart.

Being that a lot of us have a sick feeling about what will be happening again next year, the only exciting thing now is to try to dig into the DETAILS as to why this team has become so bad. Stan Van Gundy is giving the message that all will be great again once Reggie returns to his former self. He was a one man show at times and a true competitor in crutch time two years ago. Winning with Reggie doing his thing like 2 years ago might cure everything if you can believe that story line. However, it appears there is bad blood now mostly because the head coach didn't let the team work out the problems themselves as you said. Stan was insistent that he was in control and was out front and center ready to protect the most dysfunctional players of all. Those are the two players he has based his entire future with by protecting Reggie at all cost and giving that insane contract to the most dysfunctional player of all, AD, the man who just doesn't care enough to put his arms up above his waist on defense and never boxes out. Yet this big guy could be a real hero if he wanted to get in proper shape and learn how to play the game the right way. The head coach didn't have the balls to force Drummond to even listen to the shooting coach. He hired the shooting coach specifically for Andre Drummond. I can't believe Van Gundy made that decision without prodding by the owner Tom Gores. This special relationship the owner has with this player bothers me. I can see how this relationship will prevent any improvement for this player who resists all coaching and advise. In the end the owner will give a thumb down like the old Roman rulers and Andre will be history. But it might take 3 more years. Three long winters without a real Piston team will be a challenge.

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Stuff...

Post  Oracle on Fri May 05, 2017 9:22 pm

@Ballin - Yeah, I'm the last one to get the memo  lol

@Don - Yes, that was a great post by DX. I'm the first to say that our biggest problem this year was SVG, he failed this team a lot, some of which I forgive, but trashing that team meeting isn't one of them. That was just plain stupid and undercut the developing leadership and internal accountability that every team needs. If that level of self accountability had been allowed to play out, he wouldn't have to coach effort and enforce defensive rules so much.

@DX - I loved that post on the meeting, but I know you guys won't like it, but this was a potent team when the offense ran through Harris & KCP. Coaching can make or break a team, especially when there are no super stars present, which is our case.

Finally, here is an article to read: 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/the-nba-is-facing-a-bigger-issue-than-the-warriors-dominance/ss-BBALIXH?ocid=spartandhp wrote:Ask the average sports fan the biggest problem with the NBA, and they might very well point to the Golden State Warriors.

The Association's greatest superteam is steamrolling its way to the Finals. Their second-round playoff opponent, the Utah Jazz, haven't led for a single second of their series, and Golden State has won its six games so far by an average of 16.5 points. Yet as much as we bemoan such dominance, we really do love dynasties. Professional basketball has been its healthiest during the least competitive stretches.

There's a far more insidious crisis facing the NBA — a trend that's suppressing ratings, feeding into criticism of the game, and casting a cloud over what should be an increasingly bright future.We're talking, of course, about the incessant flopping in all its various forms.
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Piston fans wake up and read the most important post of the entire Piston season provided by dX "Revisiting "The Players only" meeting".

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 05, 2017 7:25 pm

Now after responding to dX on his great important post, I remembered what Zeke said during half time as he sat between the two Piston announcers. Greg Kelser was picking Zeke's brain on what was going wrong with the team. The 3rd quarter had started and Stanley Johnson was checking in when Zeke yelled out to him. The Thomas said the Pistons need more players like Johnson. Then he mentioned Harris as well as being a keeper. Zeke keeps close tabs on the Pistons. He has never completely let go. Thomas was showing his support for two players that went into Stan Van Gundy's Dog House. Harris being replaced by Leuer was also commented on by Isiah Thomas on NBA TV. He said that you never bench your best player. You never do that. That is exactly what Zeke said. Johnson has always thought of Zeke as a basketball God. Zeke saw clearly that two players felt trapped in a dysfunctional world of insanity. Thomas never mentioned Reggie jackson or Andre Drummond when Greg was asking questions.

I will never believe that Zeke would ever allow players like Drummond and Jackson on his team either as a player, coach or GM. Tom Gores and Stan Van Gundy have turned the Piston franchise into a sanctuary for dysfunctional basketball players. Anyone who objects to playing the wrong will be felt with severely. If you are a player who thrives in a system where you can play with heart and guts, then you will be a lost soul if you somehow end up on the Detroit Pistons team. When the team has a private meeting and the rules are that nothing leaves the room, the opposite ends up happening according to press reports when the snitch tells all. I am not sure if any other player mentioned anything about the meeting but if they did, it was after Andre Drummond started flapping his jaw. Now you can bet that most NBA players know what went on and are all telling their agents to please do not agree to any deal involving the Pistons. Harris goes out of the starting lineup and we now know why. Johnson goes out of the rotation completely for awhile after playing reasonably well. Stan took both players down a peg or two and for sure made both lose faith in the team and management while the two pet designated player leaders remained fully in charge of the dysfunctional team created by Stan Van Gundy. We can be assured that Drummond and Jackson will be around when training camp begins. Not so sure about the Bad Boys Johnson and Harris. And both will be very happy to go and the remaining crew will be envious.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 05, 2017 6:37 pm

deusXango wrote:We as enlightened minds realize that there are many facets to all situations, and there are ripple effects associated with actions. Why was it so important to put down the players coming together, as soon as possible, by SVG? What followed and what were the results? Peep this.

Stan Van Gundy's ego (which was at an all time high coming off the Pistons first playoff appearance in too many years) and the power given him by Tom Gores, fancied himself the Pistons "Mr. Everything"....president, coach, and team leader; that was mistake #1. For all that remember the first 1/4 of the season know that the Pistons took the bumps and bruises associated with a brand new floor general (and member to the team), and style of play. Ish Smith, who many don't care for, blended in with his new teammates, both on and off the court, played a run and gun offense where everyone was involved in the scoring, not the pick and roll which featured the two most defensive deficient players on the team eating up the scoring opportunities, and holy sh!t, the Pistons were playing inspired team defense, having fun, and were exciting to watch as the record began to take an upward swing, above .500 basketball! This can be checked out by looking at the stats...numbers don't lie. When out of the blue, Reggie returned; not gradually as one might expect, but reinserted into the starting lineup (like he had missed a couple of games with a sprained toe) and the style of play reverted to the Andre and Reggie show, with the team standing around watching Reggie pound the air out of the basketball, and he scored no more than at least a couple of players were scoring every night. Andre's 20/20 nights ended then too, oddly enough. This was mistake #2.

Those on the team with some basketball I.Q. realized that the ball sticking as it was, was counter productive, and it was bad for the teams development. Tobias Harris was the voice of reason that spoke up saying they, as a team, weren't getting enough touches, which was the proven truth, and he had every right as the teams leading scorer. I've never heard/read that he complained about not getting more touches himself, but the ball wasn't moving and the team was losing its mojo. That's leadership from a 24 year old! After SVG ripped the meeting (in effect scolding the team for hurting Reggie's feelings) Harris went from being the starting SF to the starting PF, and to everyone's surprise, he was replaced in the starting lineup by Leuer. We all expected Morris to be replaced when SVG talked about shaking up the starting lineup, but Harris, no way! IMHO Harris is a more talented offensive player than both Leuer and Morris. I don't care to hear that sh!t about his lack of defense, because there's only one decent defender in the starting lineup anyway, and just how much defense does Carmelo play? So it got to be the 3 point shot as a determining factor. Mistake #3.

Harris continued to be productive from the unfair and unnecessary demotion to the bench, but after the honeymoon was over for Leuer, as a starter, he began to suck. Did SVG make another change? Hell no! He continued to run out players who weren't playing defense, like they were in the pre-Jackson/Leuer era, there was no excitement or hope on most nights, and the record continued to stunningly plunge...this was an experienced team that so much more was expected of this season, particularly with the bench upgrades. On the bench or otherwise invisible were Harris, Smith, Beno. Johnson, Boban, and Ellenson was in total exile. I can't keep numbering the mistakes, but you guys get the picture; we turned into a losing team because this is where "Mr. Everything" led us. Ego, stubbornness, drunk with power, unimaginative, and driven by bias is what sat the bench...we saw the results of that; an outrageous payroll for the results we witnessed is what the accountants saw, and Tom Gores paid for.

Professional basketball players is a very small world community and to think they don't talk to one another is plain foolishness, even the most competitive enemies talk about the coaches, franchises, and ownership; agents that protect the interest of those players make team decisions based on what their clients wishes are...who wishes to play for Stan Van Gundy? Show of hands please. KCP wants to get paid by SVG, but play for him? Meh.

dX this was beautiful. But you forgot one thing and if I am wrong please correct me. Wasn't it Andre Drummond who came out of the team meeting pissed off and upset with the way team members called out Reggie Jackson??? I remember he made such comments but was Andre the snitch who ran into Stan's office to spill the beans? Did some of the players complain about Stan Van Gundy's coaching too. Your recall of how the season began without Reggie and the way the Pistons responded to the play of Smith and Beno is spot on. And the best player on the team was clearly T. Harris. In my mind, it was Harris who came in on the trade with Orlando that provided the real spark Detroit needed to win all those games that allowed them to make the playoffs. I thought all summer long before training camp that Harris should be the team leader if anyone. He has the most talent and shows the most effort. I am only guessing now but knowing how Stanley Johnson thinks from before he became a Piston, I'll bet that the drivers of the meeting were Harris and Johnson both who hate playing on dysfunctional teams with players like Drummond and Jackson. Perhaps Morris joined in as well because he is a tough guy who doesn't enjoy clicks like Andre and Reggie formed with Stan Van Gundy's full approval. So after the team meeting I'll bet that Andre Drummond not only talked to Stan Van Gundy like a small child but called Tom Gores who perhaps scolded SVG and told him to shut that kind of thing down quickly. Van Gundy is a political animal more than anything else so NO MORE TEAM MEETINGS ALLOWED. And what followed as you stated was PUNISHMENT FOR THE OFFENDERS WHO DARED TO QUESTION TEAM LEADERSHIP OF THE TWIN MORONS. Now maybe someone should look into the terms of Andre Drummond's contract. Did the contract say that he will be the co-team leader?

Drunk with the feeling of outragious power. What is that like? Tom Gores has it and maybe decided to let Stan find out what it feels like or perhaps Tom has SVG like a puppet on a string. Mr. Gores placed SVG in the power position but I am not sure who is really running the ship. Those late night calls Andre makes to Tom has to be really sweet. Andre dances around before the game starts to show how happy he is and then after playing the game with his arms below his waist, Andre calls Tom as his Mother tucks him in bed and says Tom it is so painful to keep missing those free throws before the home fans. Oh don't worry Andre it is Stan's fault and I will keep telling him to have that shooting coach stay far away from you in practice. I know that upsets you a lot. By the way are any of your teammates dis respecting you? Really Andre I didn't know that Harris and Johnson could be so mean. Oh my God did they bitch out Reggie too? I will talk with Stan and put a stop to that now. Now go to sleep Andre and I will take care of everything. No basketball coach could be that stupid to select Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond as the team leaders. Could Tom Gores have had a hand in this nonsense? Or is Stan Van Gundy the idiot? One thing is for sure, both Harris and Johnson tailed off big time towards the end of the season. Were they blacklisted and told to start packing their bags?

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Revisiting the "Players Only" meeting

Post  deusXango on Fri May 05, 2017 2:14 pm

We as enlightened minds realize that there are many facets to all situations, and there are ripple effects associated with actions. Why was it so important to put down the players coming together, as soon as possible, by SVG? What followed and what were the results? Peep this.

Stan Van Gundy's ego (which was at an all time high coming off the Pistons first playoff appearance in too many years) and the power given him by Tom Gores, fancied himself the Pistons "Mr. Everything"....president, coach, and team leader; that was mistake #1. For all that remember the first 1/4 of the season know that the Pistons took the bumps and bruises associated with a brand new floor general (and member to the team), and style of play. Ish Smith, who many don't care for, blended in with his new teammates, both on and off the court, played a run and gun offense where everyone was involved in the scoring, not the pick and roll which featured the two most defensive deficient players on the team eating up the scoring opportunities, and holy sh!t, the Pistons were playing inspired team defense, having fun, and were exciting to watch as the record began to take an upward swing, above .500 basketball! This can be checked out by looking at the stats...numbers don't lie. When out of the blue, Reggie returned; not gradually as one might expect, but reinserted into the starting lineup (like he had missed a couple of games with a sprained toe) and the style of play reverted to the Andre and Reggie show, with the team standing around watching Reggie pound the air out of the basketball, and he scored no more than at least a couple of players were scoring every night. Andre's 20/20 nights ended then too, oddly enough. This was mistake #2.

Those on the team with some basketball I.Q. realized that the ball sticking as it was, was counter productive, and it was bad for the teams development. Tobias Harris was the voice of reason that spoke up saying they, as a team, weren't getting enough touches, which was the proven truth, and he had every right as the teams leading scorer. I've never heard/read that he complained about not getting more touches himself, but the ball wasn't moving and the team was losing its mojo. That's leadership from a 24 year old! After SVG ripped the meeting (in effect scolding the team for hurting Reggie's feelings) Harris went from being the starting SF to the starting PF, and to everyone's surprise, he was replaced in the starting lineup by Leuer. We all expected Morris to be replaced when SVG talked about shaking up the starting lineup, but Harris, no way! IMHO Harris is a more talented offensive player than both Leuer and Morris. I don't care to hear that sh!t about his lack of defense, because there's only one decent defender in the starting lineup anyway, and just how much defense does Carmelo play? So it got to be the 3 point shot as a determining factor. Mistake #3.

Harris continued to be productive from the unfair and unnecessary demotion to the bench, but after the honeymoon was over for Leuer, as a starter, he began to suck. Did SVG make another change? Hell no! He continued to run out players who weren't playing defense, like they were in the pre-Jackson/Leuer era, there was no excitement or hope on most nights, and the record continued to stunningly plunge...this was an experienced team that so much more was expected of this season, particularly with the bench upgrades. On the bench or otherwise invisible were Harris, Smith, Beno. Johnson, Boban, and Ellenson was in total exile. I can't keep numbering the mistakes, but you guys get the picture; we turned into a losing team because this is where "Mr. Everything" led us. Ego, stubbornness, drunk with power, unimaginative, and driven by bias is what sat the bench...we saw the results of that; an outrageous payroll for the results we witnessed is what the accountants saw, and Tom Gores paid for.

Professional basketball players is a very small world community and to think they don't talk to one another is plain foolishness, even the most competitive enemies talk about the coaches, franchises, and ownership; agents that protect the interest of those players make team decisions based on what their clients wishes are...who wishes to play for Stan Van Gundy? Show of hands please. KCP wants to get paid by SVG, but play for him? Meh.
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Bad Stevens approach to coaching NBA players is very refreshing for Celtic fans. We have a coach who is too predictable and inflexible

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 05, 2017 10:19 am

Brad Stevens and Jason Kidd are coaches who are doing things a little bit different relating to changing the standards of NBA coaching. Those two coaches are not the type of men who create a game plan in the coaches office and then stand by the plan regardless of what is happening on the floor. They make adjustments quickly and pay attention and seem to know a lot more about the importance of playing the right way than the old standard I have watched for too long. In the past NBA head coaches have just shown up for games. They set a rotation pattern and will not change it no matter what is happening unless one of their chosen players is in foul trouble. If say Andre Drummond gets too tired to play in the first quarter because he has used up too much energy before the game playing ping pong or dancing in the pre game ritual, I have witnessed SVG making no adjustment when Drummond runs at half speed or has his arms down below his waist in the paint while playing defense. Andre goes at half speed while the point guards reach and the result is easy layups or jump shots from within 3 feet of the basket with no defender in the area. Stan ignores that and the result is that the Pistons get down by 15 points before the start of the 2nd quarter. And Stan says we need better 3 point shooting after the game and after the season is over.

Meanwhile Kidd and Stevens never lets their players get away with displaying LAZY INEFFECTIVE EFFORT. Even though the weak effort of the most highly paid players actually does infect the other players in a bad way Stan Van Gundy refused to address the immediate need to remove them from the game. Brad Stevens and Jason Kidd do the opposite. If one of the starters are getting their asses beat within the first two minutes of the game, he takes their asses out quickly. Stevens especially uses his entire roster and the players respond. The guys on the bench feel like they are part of the team. They are coached in practice to be ready to play when necessary. It is not in stone that they will not be playing. Now remember how horrible our point guards were playing at times especially Reggie Jackson this season. SVG never reacted. Beno had played exceptionally well and I thought he should have been the starter over Smith when Reggie was out. What happened after Reggie returned? Stan Van Gundy was AWOL as a head coach and he should have been fired at that time in my opinion. SVG allowed this Piston team to lose and lose big because of shoddy point guard play and lack of basic effort by the starting center. There is no way that Stevens or Kidd would have allowed that to happen. So now do some of you understand why this team has such bad team chemistry? The player leadership comes from Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond as designated by Stan Van Gundy. They are not leaders. They are immature players who formed a click of two during the previous season before Reggie was injured. So when the team had that closed door meeting and SVG made light of it, what do you think that was about? Could it have been a challenge to the player leadership as set up by Van Gundy? Meanwhile we see that Boston does actually have a top tier player in Thomas but is there any friction on that team at all? No it is clear that Brad Stevens doesn't have a team full of top tier talent but his team has focus and dedication to playing the right way. All of the players feel that they are part of the team. Stevens has changed the starting lineup many times as well as the make up of the rotation players. Last night when Boston was getting blown out, Stevens brought in Jonas Jerebco who showed me at least that he is so much better in every way than Jon Leuer or Andre Drummond. Remember Jerebco in his rookie season before his big injury early the following season. Jerebco is a fundamentally sound player who plays with heart and Piston fans loved him. This past season he has often been in the starting lineup for Boston because of the effect Jerebco has on his teammates. He is a creator of good team chemistry. That is the one thing that Stan Van Gundy didn't think about when putting together this current Piston team. He has no older vet player this season who has the balls to help get the younger players on the righ page. Last season a lot of fans thought that the back up point guard was too old. But once he left the back court was never the same. He had a voice that players listened to because he had been in the trenches on really good teams in big NBA moments. This season Beno has relegated to the end of the bench and designated by Stan Van Gundy as a fringe player so he had no power and the scatterbrain highly paid Piston players showed how dysfunctional they really are when it comes to doing anything relating to getting a team to play the winning way. Our highly paid players have never been big time players. They are childish men who like to portent their egos by forming clicks on the team. My best guess is that players like Stanley Johnson, Harris, Morris, Ellenson and all others who are not Andre Drummond, Reggie Jackson and Stan Van Gundy want out. I am not sure about KCP because the two SVG team leaders Stan has allowed to run the team seems to be pretty close to this click of dysfunctional self proclaimed super stars.

The bottom line is that neither Brad Stevens or Jason Kidd would have allowed the Pistons to sink this far down inside the toilet. It is not about losing and winning as far as I am concerned. The way a team approaches playing the game is most important and the key to future success. When a team is not fun to watch in any way shape or form and the coach does nothing to change anything throughout an entire season, something is really wrong. All of the players seemed to be getting worse as the season progressed and Stan didn't attempt to find an answer. All he did was talk and turn his back to the game action and bitch to his bench players who all knew what the real problems were. One moment stands out for me during a game. Stan had his back to the action as usual throwing up his arms when Drummond failed to box out and allowed a 2nd chance opportunity. Johnson was playing at the time but had not touched the basketball for the entire period he played. When a timeout was called, Stan said something to Johnson as the team started to set down on the bench. You could see that Johnson was pissed off by Van Gundy's remarks knowing that his two star players had been ball hogging and playing defense with zero effort. Somehow SVG knew he could get away with using a scapegoat in Johnson but Stanley had head enough and responded which is unlike Johnson who always listened to coaches throughout his life.

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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Fri May 05, 2017 9:34 am

deusXango wrote:"And consider this: if Ellenson had made just three extra three point shots during his time in the NBA, his three point percentage would have been 38 percent. If that happens, most fans are probably calling for him to be in the rotation for the start of next season."-Out take from Ellenson's evaluation

The Henry Ellenson evaluation of his performance this season was nothing more than a smear job. First of all, it was mistitled; it never suggested "Limited Opportunities!" His size and strength were the reasons SVG gave for not including him in the rotation; has anyone took a good look at this guy?! He consistently does a hell of a lot of rebounding for a weak ass wimp. I know I talk a lot about Tobias Harris (really one of my top 3 favorite players on the team), but Henry's getting the same sh!tty treatment Tobias is. Damn their youth and mature offensive games, they can't shoot the 3 ball for a high percentage....who on this team can?! "If Ellenson had made just three extra three point shots during his time in the NBA, his three point percentage would have been 38 percent." Doesn't that tell how limited his opportunity was to prove himself? The fact is, when Leuer was stinking up the place, Ellenson could've used that wasted time to improve on a skillset that is far superior to Leuer's, not to mention, he's much younger than Jon...bigger and stronger too. Those last hand full of games that Henry was allowed to participate in, I realized what a biased fool SVG was. Talk about confusion.

Stan Van Gundy never wanted Ellenson to take over a rotation spot that might infringe on Jon Leuer's minutes. Like you said, SVG kept saying that the reason why Henry wasn't ready to get NBA experience was due to his LACK OF SIZE AND STRENGTH. dX this is a very important point that you made for concerned Piston fans. When does SVG do the right thing based on facts? He is a political animal and seems afraid to address the real problems on this team relating to his big contract players. There is always some reason why he can't make changes when his designated rotation players are not playing well. While many of us watched Drummond and Leuer give up easy layups on defense while both were often out of position when opponent shots went up when their responsibility was to fight for position to secure defensive rebounds, Stan would just throw up his arms and hope that those two players never say his reaction. It seems that he is afraid to be a real coach. SVG can be cruel to some of the younger players but for his free agent signees and his 2nd contract players, Stan will ignore reality. Here is one reality check for Stan. Everyone in the league knows how weak Leuer is when he attempts to compete with other power forwards on the boards. Leuer's upper body is nowhere near as strong as Ellenson's. Compare their body frames and it is clear that Ellenson takes up more space. And limited time we could see Ellenson in NBA competition, I saw a guy with quick feet and high energy. His timing was off because of lack of playing time.

dX good job in identifying specific Stan Van Gundy Spin that all the Detroit reporters seem to accept without question. Perhaps the reporters are not even watching the games or know next to nothing about playing basketball the right way. And the owner must be in la la land as well.

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Chicken Little

Post  BallinD on Fri May 05, 2017 12:10 am

But Oracle, he's been in town for a good bit, why should he call you now?    The sky fell a while ago.  Thought you knew! lol!
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Re: FORUM

Post  deusXango on Thu May 04, 2017 6:13 pm

Oracle wrote:Because he hasn't called me....
lol lol lol
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Is Chicken Little in town???

Post  Oracle on Thu May 04, 2017 3:17 pm

Because he hasn't called me....
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Rip 'em

Post  deusXango on Thu May 04, 2017 1:08 pm

"And consider this: if Ellenson had made just three extra three point shots during his time in the NBA, his three point percentage would have been 38 percent. If that happens, most fans are probably calling for him to be in the rotation for the start of next season."-Out take from Ellenson's evaluation

The Henry Ellenson evaluation of his performance this season was nothing more than a smear job. First of all, it was mistitled; it never suggested "Limited Opportunities!" His size and strength were the reasons SVG gave for not including him in the rotation; has anyone took a good look at this guy?! He consistently does a hell of a lot of rebounding for a weak ass wimp. I know I talk a lot about Tobias Harris (really one of my top 3 favorite players on the team), but Henry's getting the same sh!tty treatment Tobias is. Damn their youth and mature offensive games, they can't shoot the 3 ball for a high percentage....who on this team can?! "If Ellenson had made just three extra three point shots during his time in the NBA, his three point percentage would have been 38 percent." Doesn't that tell how limited his opportunity was to prove himself? The fact is, when Leuer was stinking up the place, Ellenson could've used that wasted time to improve on a skillset that is far superior to Leuer's, not to mention, he's much younger than Jon...bigger and stronger too. Those last hand full of games that Henry was allowed to participate in, I realized what a biased fool SVG was. Talk about confusion.
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Great job forum writers - Another myth that must be exposed the song and dance relating to the Detroit Pistons defense the past season

Post  cool breeze on Thu May 04, 2017 8:07 am

Article after article by the Detroit sports reporters keeps the myth alive relating to the inept Piston defense with any combination involving Reggie Jackson-Ish Smith at point guard, Leuer-Harris at power forward, Morris at small forward, Drummond at center and KCP at the 2 guard position. If any of you happened to watch the Boston-Washington series featuring the incredible game by Thomas, did you happen to notice how the Boston players made it difficult for Wall and Beal and especially for Wall in that game? Horeford has added some toughness on the defensive end for Boston. But regardless of the combinations that Brad Stevens uses, Boston has been able to keep Wall from making easy layups or getting deep in the paint especially in crunch time. Meanwhile in my opinion the downfall of the Pistons is their defense not lack of good 3 point shooting. To win or have good team chemistry or hope of being successful, there must be a feeling on any team that you can summon up the strength and toughness to get stops when it counts and never give up easy layups when an opponent is running their half court offense. It seems that Stan Van Gundy and his beat writers have a very short memory of this past season. Just take John Wall for example. This guy can do whatever he wants to do whenever he wants to do it when he plays against the Pistons. My best guess is that Detroit is Wall's favorite team to play against. I bet that Gortat says the same thing. That is why Wall made those statements about Reggie Jackson's contract. How many layups has Wall made against the Pistons. How many times did he and Beal make mid range jump shots against no pressure? Detroit's pick and roll defense is bad if they use Drummond or Baynes. the guards on this Piston team are almost as bad as Drummond in playing pick and roll defense. There is no need to run complicated half court plays against the Pistons. The first option always works. Then when New Orleans plays Detroit it is Anthony Davis scoring at will and SVG has never figured out any way to stop Davis or at least slow him down. How many times did an opposing small forward blow by Morris for a layup? Pick your poison any team can go one on one and beat the Pistons with layups at any position. If they miss the layup there is nothing to worry about because our players do not box out so 2nd and 3rd chance opportunities are always available. Stan Van Gundy should feel embarrassed when a team can run the same play over and over in crunch time and score at will. You just can't look at the total points allowed to find out how your team stacks up with other NBA teams. You have to look at the patterns of teams and especially how the team plays together during the last half of the 4th quarter and of course the first quarter of games. In the first quarter you find out who came to play on any given night and who is faking it. How could Stan van Gundy watch his team perform so badly without any effort or spirit in the first quarter of most games this past season? Then look at the beginning of the 3rd quarters of games where our Pistons were often blown out. How in hell could Stan Van Gundy come back with the same players again on his watch? What kind of man is he?

The biggest joke in the NBA is this story line about KCP and his max contract. This management group are known as a group of fools. They still think they got a good deal with the Andre Drummond contract. Wow they kept Andre in Detroit. What in hell did any other NBA team offer Andre?

So I can't wait until Stan Van Gundy solves the problem he has with 3 point shooting. The Pistons can't stop anyone so they can't get out in transition for good looks. The offense features ball dominate point guards. Notice that Thomas has learned how to move well off the ball. He doesn't dribble down the court and screw around until there is only 8 seconds left in the shot clock. The Pistons are easy to guard just ask any opposing coach. Talk about fake news. The crap that Detroit reporters have written and the comments SVG has been quoted on is enough to make anyone lose interest in this Piston franchise. Now the dog story. What will come next? Maybe management will announce that SVG is going to throw in his new dog if kCP will sign a new 7 year $20 mil contract. Even the sports agents are laughing at the Detroit Pistons these days. Bring back the Teal uniforms Stan. Admit you have a soft team made up of the worst defenders in the entire league. And the same players have the lowest basketball IQ in the NBA as well when it comes to playing offense. One has to wonder about the basketball IQ of the coaching staff too. Who is responsible for the STAND AROUND OFFENSE where every player is easy to guard at every moment. Who in hell doesn't have a bad taste in their mouth when thinking of how far the Detroit Pistons have fallen.

I hate to watch this team play the game of basketball. I imagine that all of the players who made up the Bad Boys team dislike the team as well. Bill Laimbeer admitted he just can't stand to watch his old team anymore. He would rather watch the WNBA. But it is not like that everywhere. Some fans watch the calm exterior of Jason Kidd and Brad Stevens. They did their homework picking players who love to play hard and prepare those players before the games start . Those coaches don't go on a rant yelling at the players sitting on the bench who do not play when frustrated with the starters who always get a free pass when they show off their low basketball IQ night after night. Watching Stevens in this Boston-Washington series sit calmly when things are not going well and then make a great adjustment to shut down the dribble penetration of Wall is sweet. Stevens doesn't have the best players in the NBA but he has smart dedicated hard working players who respect each other because they all play smart and hard. Meanwhile we are watching a bunch of Charlie Vs and things are going to get even worse next year after KCP signs his new deal. Will Stan go home and rant to his poor dog after the games next winter? Maybe the bench players will get a break when Andre goofs off on defense.

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So If You're Watching the Playoffs...Guess Who?

Post  BallinD on Thu May 04, 2017 12:10 am

Talent and Skills Test

Who on the Pistons team can execute a basic Euro-step move?

Who on the Pistons can execute a basic step-back J? Maybe MM

Who on the Pistons loves to make the extra pass? Bullock, Ish

Who on the Pistons can consistently get his shot under pressure? Tobias, the old Weggie, Boban, MM,(but he will not regularly make a bucket, even so.)

Who on the Pistons can consistently defend the post?

Who on the Pistons can effectively pressure the ball handler?  Maybe SJ
facepalm  Sad  mad


Last edited by BallinD on Thu May 04, 2017 1:58 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : oops)
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You're right BallinD, I must've lost my mind

Post  deusXango on Wed May 03, 2017 10:44 pm

Stan Van Gundy adopts a dog and remains a pretty awesome dude? Can that be interpreted on the other hand, "he f@cked up our basketball team, oh, what a guy!" It seems this man can do no wrong.

SVG has this mystical knowledge that next season Reggie Jackson will not only return to form, but be better than ever...all this based on an invisible practice that none of us saw. He'll be faster, have greater endurance, be more explosive going to the rim, and a more willing passer...once Andre sees his butt buddy back, he'll become engaged as never before, guarding the paint, making more than 60% of his FT's, shooting an astounding 70% from the floor, and they both will be considered for the All Defensive Team. SVG see this sh!t coming to pass. The east will be ours.
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So La Dee Daa...

Post  BallinD on Wed May 03, 2017 7:18 pm

SVG adopted a dog. VanBower announced he will likely split the mid-level exception, which tells us our team is pretty well set already. We don't need no stinking improvements cause the freaking improvement is gonna come from within the heart and soul of our core. Shocked

Nothing to worry about folks. All is well in Pistonland. lol
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You get what you pay for, or do you?

Post  deusXango on Wed May 03, 2017 4:33 pm

"Interestingly, though, general manager Jeff Bower indicated after the season that it was more likely the Pistons would break up that $8.4 million over more than one player."-Keith Langlolis

If KCP is worth $20+ million a year, what are you going to accomplish spending $4.2 million, each, on a couple of players?

Don, here's another nugget that's not discussed...Danny Green signed for less money than SVG/Bower offered to stay in San Antonio. I don't expect KCP to sign a reasonable contract to remain in Detroit, after all, the Spurs are a winning organization and the current Pistons are led by the brain dead, who're giving away money by the bushel barrel for nothing in return. Has anyone ever questioned the fact that every player SVG pursued, that chose to sign elsewhere, teams made the playoffs? Decent players seem to shun SVG and only the dregs are overpaid signed by him. Todays players don't care for the Van Gundy brothers, or has anyone noticed?
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Wed May 03, 2017 2:28 pm

deusXango wrote:Thon Maker started in the playoffs for his team, and Henry Ellenson had the damnedest time getting out of Grand Rapids on a lottery team....come to think of it, a helluva lot of rookies are making significant contributions in this years playoffs.

Has anyone looked beyond the picture-in- the-picture? John Wall fainted when he heard what Reggie signed for...Isaiah Thomas refused to sign with SVG and Detroit, but chose Danny Ainge and Boston; would he have been given a fair chance to start for the Pistons with Reggie on board? Westbrook didn't bat an eye at Reggie's departure, and PG's around the league quietly snickered at Detroit's stupidity, in an attempt to revive Wall.

Al Horford also declined to sign with SVG to come to Detroit and I personally wonder if was not wanting to play for Van Gundy or play with Drummond? Andre was coming off an All-Star season, but Josh Smith had just been sh!tted on by Mo Cheeks, SVG, and the Detroit fans...the same Josh Smith who Horford had played with for years. There was no evidence Detroit was interested in winning.

Stanley Johnson, an 18 year old rookie with plenty of promise, had an ugly jumps shot...too flat the judges said; let's fix that and f@ck up the rest of his game. Before last years draft, Henry Ellenson was viewed as a God send if he somehow fell to the Pistons...he was the best thing to come down the shoot since white bread; he fell to us and we nitpicked him from the word "go." It's no way in hell that Leuer's play, after the All-Star break, didn't warrant giving Henry at least a shot at the rotation! So, WTF are we gonna do with this years draft pick?

Think on this, KCP is being viewed as one of the top 3 players on the Pistons and should be paid as such; who're the top 2, how deficient are their games (particularly in areas of consistency), and what is this really saying about a sincere effort to win a championship, when Drummond, Jackson, and KCP are our "Big 3"?

dX we need to keep posts like this one coming. Otherwise Piston management damage control press releases will defy common sense. Your post was full of common sense. Other players looking for new contracts who have established a history of playing the right way know all the other players currently playing and knowing that they will get the money regardless of which team they pick, will never sign with the Detroit Pistons as long as Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson are the two players who control this Piston team. Who in their right mind would want to play defense with Andre Drummond or be around a guy who is not all in giving full effort every night for his team? And who wants to play Stan Van Gundy's style where he allows his point guards to dominate the basketball? The prospective free agent will wonder, will I be shut out like the players currently under a Piston contract? Will I have to play pick and roll defense with Andre Drummond or watch him screw up defensive rotations in the paint? Will I have to watch Drummond shoot the baseline hook shot instead of passing the ball to me when I am open? Will I be constantly running from offense to defense without ever touching the basketball? This is life when you are coached by Stan Van Gundy and Tim Hardaway.

Now on to your other point relating to how the first and 2nd year players are treated by the coaches and Stan Van Gundy's team leaders, Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson. Will any young player get a fair shot under the rule of SVG? If you make a rotation will the coach insist that his pet point guards share the basketball or insist on the point guard running designed plays that the team works on in practice? I think not. And while SVG made a statement that he hopes that Ellenson has a bigger role on the team next year that idea suddenly vanished just a week later when the coach fed a statement to his homer press people that success is directly dependent on improved shooting by Leuer. Notice everything we get from the press is about 3 point shooting when the expert announcers from other teams said all season long that the problem with the Pistons is their inept ability to defend in the paint and their lack of having an offense that features players with a mid range game. Everyone is wrong but SVG according to our reporters. Since Stan's statement about Ellenson he then came out saying that Ellenson needs to get stronger to improve his defense. Yet Leuer playing together with Drummond was the worst combination on defense than any other pair of big men in the league. They allowed more 2nd and 3rd chance opportunities along with easy layups than any other center or power forward and it wasn't even close.

The only reason why SVG is keeping his figures crossed and therefore can never be an objective head coach is that Jon Leuer is making $10 mil a season. He way over paid for Leuer and gambled and lost but cannot admit his mistake and is willing to screw Ellenson for one more season.

By the way the press keeps saying that Detroit had the 7th highest team salary structure in the NBA for 2016-17. If that is true than why are they listed in 3rd place in their own Piston web site at $115+ million? Cleveland is in first place followed by Portland. The Pistons are number 3 and in the 12th spot in this year's draft. How does that look in the owners eyes? Is SVG feeding false information to the press knowing they won't check out the facts and also maybe hoping that the owner will not actually check and compare salaries? Tom Gores must know he made a huge mistake in many ways. First Mr. Gores thought that if he showed some love towards Drummond, Andre would in turn agree to play hard at least.

Tom sure got fooled not only by Stan Van Gundy but also the player he had to spend so much kiss ass time with before Drummond agreed to sign the big contract. My bet is that will be the last time he ever gets close to any Piston player again. Who can blame him? If SVG knows anything about playing basketball the right way, he should have warned Tom Gores about how it would most likely work out if the Pistons signed Drummond to that insane contract. Any coach and most fans could see that Drummond is not a fundamentally sound basketball player. He is a weak decision maker and a guy who never gets himself in top physical and mental condition. He doesn't like being told what to do and when to do it either. Lack of mental preparation for games stood out not only last season but throughout his career in Detroit and his one year in college. Remember that Joe Dumars was worried about Andre's attitude before he drafted him but felt confident after his interview with Drummond? Well SVG has had many days and nights watching his star player under achieve and be the goof ball in practice and before regular season games. Did anyone ever see Bill Laimbeer or Ben Wallace dancing in the circle laughing it up before home games? No those two players had a unmistakeable look when they came on the court. They knew that they would be feeling pain and inflicting pain and it was not going to be fun and games. But they had put in the hard work it takes to play at top form. Knowing this how can we respect this head coach. He is the guy who has allowed the Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson scam to flourish to the point that no self respecting successful NBA vet free agent would ever consider playing for the Detroit Pistons.


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Ho Hmm

Post  deusXango on Wed May 03, 2017 11:37 am

Thon Maker started in the playoffs for his team, and Henry Ellenson had the damnedest time getting out of Grand Rapids on a lottery team....come to think of it, a helluva lot of rookies are making significant contributions in this years playoffs.

Has anyone looked beyond the picture-in- the-picture? John Wall fainted when he heard what Reggie signed for...Isaiah Thomas refused to sign with SVG and Detroit, but chose Danny Ainge and Boston; would he have been given a fair chance to start for the Pistons with Reggie on board? Westbrook didn't bat an eye at Reggie's departure, and PG's around the league quietly snickered at Detroit's stupidity, in an attempt to revive Wall.

Al Horford also declined to sign with SVG to come to Detroit and I personally wonder if was not wanting to play for Van Gundy or play with Drummond? Andre was coming off an All-Star season, but Josh Smith had just been sh!tted on by Mo Cheeks, SVG, and the Detroit fans...the same Josh Smith who Horford had played with for years. There was no evidence Detroit was interested in winning.

Stanley Johnson, an 18 year old rookie with plenty of promise, had an ugly jumps shot...too flat the judges said; let's fix that and f@ck up the rest of his game. Before last years draft, Henry Ellenson was viewed as a God send if he somehow fell to the Pistons...he was the best thing to come down the shoot since white bread; he fell to us and we nitpicked him from the word "go." It's no way in hell that Leuer's play, after the All-Star break, didn't warrant giving Henry at least a shot at the rotation! So, WTF are we gonna do with this years draft pick?

Think on this, KCP is being viewed as one of the top 3 players on the Pistons and should be paid as such; who're the top 2, how deficient are their games (particularly in areas of consistency), and what is this really saying about a sincere effort to win a championship, when Drummond, Jackson, and KCP are our "Big 3"?
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue May 02, 2017 9:35 pm

Oracle wrote:Football is #1 by a long shot, and Don is right, Basketball in sloping down from it's rise starting in the late 80's. BTW Ballin, we're still paying Josh, so maybe SVG's secret plan is to bring him back... to the future Smile 


Thanks for the interesting chart Oracle. Better not mention the idea regarding Josh Smith or SVG might do it. What if he brought back Smith and Jason Maxiell then make a trade with the Bucks for Monroe? Then find where Will Bynum is living and add him as the 3rd point guard. At times play Jackson, Smith and Bynum at the same time with Maxiell to win with small ball. Of course that group couldn't function properly without the team leader, Andre Drummond. We need our $24 million dollar a year man to keep those other players alert and ready to take on anything and everybody. Fit KCP in with that group at times too. He will figure it out and won't be as confused as he has been when playing with Reggie. "What's he doing now?" Damn I better get back on defense Reggie is going to shoot it again". Maxiell will talk with KCP and say what in hell is going on with the offense? I never played with a point guard like that". KCP responds, "Jason we have no organized half court offense. That's the way we play it now, We never know what hr id going to do so I suggest that you just stand somewhere. I got the baseline on the strong side."

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