Back To The Bench PLEASE

[FlyDog]

Stanley Johnson should have stayed in school.

[deusXango]

I really agree with your post.

While I fully subscribe to the theory that no player should lose their starting job due to injury, coming off the bench until he gets his sea legs isn't losing your job, IMO.
Oracle, you're absolutely correct about losing a starting job but, should a TEAM lose its' momentum just to satisfy an ego? I'd like to think that Reggie plays for the name on front of his jersey, not the one on the back.

I'll withhold too much fire until I see how they play tonight! They're not stupid, so I expect to see some adjustment to Reggie being the starter. The starters have more experience playing Reggie's style of ball than they do playing Ish's brand of ball.

I really like the fact that Reggie spreads the floor because he can hit the 3, but it's a waste if you don't take advantage of that for better shots for the team.
I think the floor has been spread enough for the 3 shooters to get their shot off comfortably.

We'll see tonight, which should be a win under normal circumstances, IMO!

[deusXango]

I'll have to look into him DX... But how about Klay Slay Thompson last night. 60 points in 29 minutes.

"His stat line was 21-for-33 from the field, 8-for-14 from 3-point range and 10-for-11 from the free throw line in 29 minutes"

According to Rachel Nichols Klay only took 11 dribbles in the game and held the ball for 88.4 seconds.

WOW!

Damn, that's one heck of a performance, by todays NBA standards; players rack up some fantastic stats KaySlay, but not as efficient as what Klay's were last night...I wish I could have witnessed that. 60 points in less than 30 minutes; who's done that?

[Oracle]

I really agree with your post.

While I fully subscribe to the theory that no player should lose their starting job due to injury, coming off the bench until he gets his sea legs isn't losing your job, IMO.

I'll withhold too much fire until I see how they play tonight! They're not stupid, so I expect to see some adjustment to Reggie being the starter.

I really like the fact that Reggie spreads the floor because he can hit the 3, but it's a waste if you don't take advantage of that for better shots for the team.

We'll see tonight, which should be a win under normal circumstances, IMO!

[cool breeze]

I missed the game last night but, it ain't no way in hell Orlando should be beating us, in our house, after the previous 3 games we played; we had turned a corner and the TEAM had begun to gel. Enter one Reginald Jackson aka "The Savior."

It's my belief that Reggie shouldn't be inserted into the starting lineup for at least 3-5 games but, brought in off the bench until he gets into game shape. Ish has been running the teams 1st unit quite well in Reggie's absence, and the major contribution was protecting the ball on offense; who enjoys 3X the turnovers for a few extra points from the PG position? I'm not saying turn the team over to Ish, but allow him to do what he was brought on board to do and that's to backup Reggie; letting Reggie play his way into game shape is backing him up! Reggie's paid and paid well to do what he's told...SVG!

If any changes are to be made in the rotation, start Leuer and bring Morris off the bench with Reggie and Baynes, for the time being, and eliminate a lot the chances for our 2nd unit being non-productive. This is simple addition through subtraction. These are the top 8 guys in SVG's rotation, or they should be!

Only time will tell how soon Reggie's return will start showing consecutive wins and our march to the playoffs but, I couldn't help but notice from the stats that KCP and Drummond had their worse game last night in quite a while. I didn't see it so I can't criticize the offense/defense/coaching but, I can speak on the logic, in my head; my version of the truth, if you will.

GO PISTONS!!

dX I never thought that I would agree that Ish Smith should be the starter for now but you are correct. It seems that Jackson was waiting for a home game that he thought would be an easy W. It all backfired in a big way because the Piston team looked completely different. Can we pin the blame for this loss on Reggie? Should guys like Pope, Harris and Drummond be called out for their lousy mental preparation relating to being ready for the athletic players Orlando brings to the table? Should the head coach be held responsible?

I never thought that Stan Van Gundy would start Jackson on his first game back considering the fantastic chemistry the starters had over the previous 3 games with Ish Smith playing the role as the starting point guard. Jackson should have told the coach that he would prefer coming off the bench for a few games. I think Smith played the entire game against Atlanta without turning the basketball over once. His defense was also really good. But his tempo on the offensive end was the biggest key of that game. When Reggie made his first shot, I shook my head thinking this is going to be an ugly game. The players were all standing around without a mission. Reggie was dribbling trying to create the same magic he had last year. It didn't work because this is a different type of team now. Success this season at least in the last three road games involved low turnovers by the point guards, good tempo, good spacing, multiple screens and movement on the weak side, and then the inside out passing and the side to side passing until guys like Harris, Morris and Leuer had wide open 3 point shot attempts. Then Pope coming off that double screen from the baseline for the 10 foot open jump shot or even making it to the rim continuing his penetration. This didn't happen without all of the 5 players being involved in the successful plays.

Ish Smith struggled so much in the early going when the starting job was placed on his shoulders. Then he did the impossible and adjusted his game concentrating more on his defense, and on transformed his offensive game becoming a high percentage passer and when needed taking good open shots. His confidence was soaring until this last game. Was Stan Van Gundy wrong to have started Reggie? Jackson was the best Piston player last year for sure. Would any coach keep Labron out of the starting lineup? In this situation the right thing to do for both Stan and Reggie was for him to come off the bench until at least the hot streak came to an end. I was thinking the Pistons could have knocked off 10 straight wins the way they had been playing. Now this team is again just another work in progress type NBA team. Unless Reggie adjusts his game and becomes a better defender and a better ball distributor and play maker, the team will not be fun to watch and will struggle in every game to come out on top. If Reggie plays the same way he did last season, the 2nd unit with Ish Smith needs to become an outstanding unit that can create a chemistry of their own. If this happens, fans will buy a ticket to watch basketball played the right way. In this last game, once Reggie started doing things on his own, everyone of the other starters reverted back to going one on one saying screw the team concept. I absolutely hate watching Westbrook play and I am sure a lot of Thunder fans are getting really sleepy eyed watching their team play this season.

[KaySlay]

I'll have to look into him DX... But how about Klay Slay Thompson last night. 60 points in 29 minutes.

"His stat line was 21-for-33 from the field, 8-for-14 from 3-point range and 10-for-11 from the free throw line in 29 minutes"

According to Rachel Nichols Klay only took 11 dribbles in the game and held the ball for 88.4 seconds.

WOW!

[deusXango]

Malik Monk, 6' 3", SG is currently listed as the Pistons pick in next springs draft (things change almost weekly on the site I'm referring to); he's a freshman playing for Kentucky and playing out of his mind! Should we loose KCP to FA, this would be a hell of a pickup, one who appears to be head and shoulders above those in line behind KCP. Don't let the 6' 3" fool you, think a high-flying Bradley Beal. What does the forum think?

[BallinD]

Reggie looked pretty good on Offense, but the same as last year as himself cast in the role of the ball dominant one.

Despite watching Ish share the ball all fall, it appears, he will likely fall into "getting his," ball hogging his way to numbers and hero ball, not out of selfishness, but because it is what he knows, after all he did learn that style as the understudy to Westbrook, which is a double-edged sword.

At worst, he will dribble, dribble, score (sometimes) but mostly to the exclusion of teammates, who may forget or eschew their recent ball-sharing ways.    At best, he will emulate the triple double machine who penetrates and passes at will.

Time will tell.

[FlyDog]

Nice to see the charges dismissed against Cleaves. I hope for everybody's sake it went down like he said it did.

[Oracle]

It wasn't just KCP & Drummond, it was Harris as well, all 3 performing well below what we're used to.

We have to have a team that gets everyone involved... PERIOD, or this won't work!

Reggie is being paid the big bucks and he's talented, but he also needs his coach to transform him into a guard that can run a team, not just the Drummond pick & roll!

[deusXango]

I missed the game last night but, it ain't no way in hell Orlando should be beating us, in our house, after the previous 3 games we played; we had turned a corner and the TEAM had begun to gel. Enter one Reginald Jackson aka "The Savior."

It's my belief that Reggie shouldn't be inserted into the starting lineup for at least 3-5 games but, brought in off the bench until he gets into game shape. Ish has been running the teams 1st unit quite well in Reggie's absence, and the major contribution was protecting the ball on offense; who enjoys 3X the turnovers for a few extra points from the PG position? I'm not saying turn the team over to Ish, but allow him to do what he was brought on board to do and that's to backup Reggie; letting Reggie play his way into game shape is backing him up! Reggie's paid and paid well to do what he's told...SVG!

If any changes are to be made in the rotation, start Leuer and bring Morris off the bench with Reggie and Baynes, for the time being, and eliminate a lot the chances for our 2nd unit being non-productive. This is simple addition through subtraction. These are the top 8 guys in SVG's rotation, or they should be!

Only time will tell how soon Reggie's return will start showing consecutive wins and our march to the playoffs but, I couldn't help but notice from the stats that KCP and Drummond had their worse game last night in quite a while. I didn't see it so I can't criticize the offense/defense/coaching but, I can speak on the logic, in my head; my version of the truth, if you will.

GO PISTONS!!

[cool breeze]

Team goes back to watching!

They got out of sync and never really recovered! Guys roles were radically changed and indecision set into the whole team. The team with the fewest turnovers in the NBA looked like a turnover machine. Guys that would just shoot, looked to get rid of the ball.

This disruption was going to happen even though I hoped we could avoid it. It's going to take some time to figure this out.

Who could not recognize the Piston team last night? We fans had 3 games to enjoy good basketball and they were all together on the road of all things. Then once again, this Piston team was not prepared to play defense in the first half. Their mental approach was so bad on defense in the first half there was no doubt in my mind that this was going to be an ugly loss. Orlando is young and athletic. You can't take plays off. Both Piston centers got their asses kicked. Guards could not stop dribble penetration. On offense, this was a much different team from the team that won three straight games. Overall grade for both the starting and 2nd unit would have to be an (F).

The Piston offense was so beautiful to watch before Reggie made his first appearance last night for those three road games. Here are the grades. It wasn't about the high shooting percentage that happened in those games. The fun came when we saw the team make 3 or 4 passes with guys like Pope coming off good screens. KCP was back on the baseline just standing for most offensive possessions with no screens being set for him in the first quarter.

Floor spacing - F
Making the correct initial pass in the half court offense - D
Effort to set screens - F
Sharing the basketball - F
Offensive rebounding - F
Penetrating under control and kicking to the open shooter - D
Reversing the basketball from side to side after going inside and out - F
Attitude relating to protecting the basketball to avoid turnovers -F

This was a game where the Piston team appeared to have done zero work in mental preparation and the result was another ass kicking. All the one on one dull low basketball IQ possessions by Detroit shows many fans that this group is very immature. Orlando has some guys who are fun to watch. Gordon is just getting started in his upward move to becoming an elite player. Pistons have a lot of hard work to do if they want to compete against the Bulls. Very disappointing loss to Orlando. This is a team still looking for an identity. Who are they? Are they the Washington Generals or a team that prepares and plays together to win?

[Oracle]

Team goes back to watching!

They got out of sync and never really recovered! Guys roles were radically changed and indecision set into the whole team. The team with the fewest turnovers in the NBA looked like a turnover machine. Guys that would just shoot, looked to get rid of the ball.

This disruption was going to happen even though I hoped we could avoid it. It's going to take some time to figure this out.

[Oracle]

This article was sweet revenge for us: Detroit Lions Twitter Throws Shade at ESPN Experts

After an emphatic win over the New Orleans Saints, the Detroit Lions threw shade on Twitter at ESPN experts for their picks in Week 13.

If you were to look at expert picks, the point spread, and other things heading into NFL Week 13, you might’ve assumed that the New Orleans Saints were substantially better than the Detroit Lions. Almost everyone was taking the Saints in the dome to win. The oddsmakers were especially in their corner, having the Lions as 6.5-point underdogs right before kickoff. That was a bad call.

Despite playing almost every game up to Week 13 close, Matthew Stafford and the Lions put forth their most dominant performance yet. Their offense had their way with New Orleans all day long and their defense stepped up to play big against an elite offensive unit. When it was all wrapped up, Detroit had secured a 28-13 victory and increased their NFC North lead.

However, they had a little bit more to say than the talking that their play did on Sunday. Following the win, the Lions official Twitter account took aim at the ESPN NFL experts. With a screenshot of their picks for Week 13—where each person took the Saints—the official account couldn’t do anything but laugh at their silliness:

[Oracle]

Reggie back tonight.  Good time to ease him back against Orlando.

Well our Lions have seemed to turn a corner.  1st Road Win following Thanksgiving since 1974.  They dominated the Saints, a game in which every talking head said the Saints would win.

Wow, the Defense is stepping up better than with Suh!

Stafford is now one of the BEST possession QB's in the game and can still throw the deep pass!

Tate is, well, GOLDEN!!! Maybe not quite as spectacular as Megatron, but spectacular in his own right!

I'm a believer, apologies to Wise & you Fly, you guys saw this faster than I did, but I'm right there with you now!!!

BTW, Lions and Pistons both playing great at the same time??? Be still my beating heart, this is heaven

[FlyDog]

Reggie back tonight. Good time to ease him back against Orlando.

Well our Lions have seemed to turn a corner. 1st Road Win following Thanksgiving since 1974. They dominated the Saints, a game in which every talking head said the Saints would win.

[KaySlay]

SPLITS GP MPG FG% RPG APG BLKPG STPG PFPG PPG

Last 10 Games 10 26.9 .494 7.1 1.6 0.2 0.4 2.1 11.4 Leuer

Last 10 Games 10 32.2 .438 3.4 2.1 0.5 0.5 2.2 13.5 Morris

Am I the only one who would love to see Leuer in the starting lineup? Leuer is shooting a higher percentage, rebounds better, and I believe is a better overall player offensively AND defensively.

Marcus is more of a scorer and can be pretty streaky and get hot without notice. Moving him to the 6th man brings him off the bench against a second unit he can take better advantage of. Being able to plug him in at the 3 or 4 also gives us added flexibility as our first guy off the bench. I love Marcus and what he is done for us but moving forward Leuer is looking like a better option with the first unit.

[BallinD]

KaySlay, KCP stands for Kid Can Play...I thought you knew!!

Fly, that Lions score sounds good to me.  Nothing like a good old shootout before I watch Westworld.  

WTF, I know its like the thing to make fun of the little guys, but hey, big bad Stanley can barely make a layup in traffic, while little bitty Ish and littler Isaiah Thomas rule in the paint??

SVG: described (SJ)  the second-year swingman’s work ethic as “inconsistent.”

Johnson, the promising prospect who has fallen out of the playing rotation, forcefully disagreed.

“There’s no issue with my work ethic,” he said. So now we know what the issue is: Not that smart, if he thinks he can win a war of words with his coach: Rook!

[FlyDog]

It's time for Drew Brees and Matthew Stafford to swap places as a top 5 NFL QB. It's time for the Lions to get a big Road Win in December. It's time for a 6-8 year run that the Lions haven't seen the likes of since the 50's. It's happening. After 60 years of disappointment, it's time.

Lions 41 Saints 26.

Book it.

[FlyDog]

I think our record is pretty darn good considering we brought in 4'9" Ish Smith to Start at PG for 21 games. He has been amazing during this 3 game stretch........3 Road Wins against the toughest teams that the 2nd tier of the East has to offer. These are the teams we're competing against for a Home Playoff series (Or 2). We just whooped Atlanta's ass!

I wish the Ellenson could have gotten about 12 minutes of 4thQ burn last night. But that's my only complaint. Andre pushing back against Howard was very exciting to me. After a slow start, when he came back in for the 2nd Quarter, he changed the game and the Pistons never looked back. Ish has been much better the last couple weeks, and KCP did his best World B Free impersonation in the 1st Half............."Gimme the ball and hit the boards, cuz the ball is going up." I loved that mentality from him.

It is just 3 games, but a very impressive and kinda out of the blue 3 games. Can they keep this up? Probably not. But we do know that they have this type of stretch in them......the kind of run that could produce wins in April and May. They're not ready for June.............yet. But for the 1st time in 7 or 8 years they're good enough to get to the Conference Finals, if they play like they're playing now.

[KaySlay]

Well all my criticism of KCP is slowly fading. Like Wise said it is a small sample size, but based on our trajectory I am very optimistic.

Besides the bonehead flagrant foul I love the way Drummond has played (or outplayed) Whiteside, Jordan, and Howard.

[WTF]

That's an excellent assessment of the situation, it's not the record it's the trajectory they're on!

Light Reading for Wise:

Coach Stan Van Gundy is running more of his offense through Caldwell-Pope and the shooting guard has responded well. He’s averaging 19.5 points over the last six games and has racked up 21 assists over the last four outings.

The Pistons have a dynamic duo in KCP and Tobias Harris:

One of the most interesting trends to emerge so far is the superb play of both Tobias Harris and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. Individually, both are having excellent seasons, currently first and second in scoring on the team with 17.1 and 14.9 points per game respectively.

When KCP and Harris are on the floor together, the Pistons are outscoring their opponents 112.6 to 107.2 points per 100 possessions, yielding a net rating of +5.4. This is consistent with last season’s numbers, where they outscored the opposition 112.2 to 108.8 for a net rating of +3.4.

Still can't buy into the consistency because of a 6 game stretch. If these numbers stay the same by the time we hit mid season then perhaps. Defensively they're a bit better but only as a team. Individually I don't think anyone has improved much from last season.  

I'm pretty sure we have all made key decisions in our lives based on less data.

Did you really downplay the importance of improved TEAM defense over individual efforts.  

Yeah sorta kinda!!!! At some point individual effort is going to rear its ugly head. Point in case Andre!!!! Still very much a weak link in the middle likely to get exploited rather sooner than later. I'm not so sure they've turned a corner here even though these are three road wins. I likely would have been more impress if this was Spurs, OKC, and Clippers they just beat.

All I'm saying IMO the sample is not large enough for me and I still see some bad habits even in these wins that could easily send them right basck into losing 4-5 in a row. There record is almost exactly what it was last season this time not sure if that's a real plus

[lemonpen]

The early returns have to place GM Stan in the running for Executive of the Year.

The Tobias fleecing of Orlando is gaining traction toward a favorable comparison to some of the best deals by the legendary Trader Joe. Who knew it would potentially overshadow the Morris trade. Ben then Tobias. The Magic may never take another call from the 313 or 248 or 586.

All the pundits harped on was the need for improvement of our bench and up pops Jon Leuer. WHATTTT? WHOOOOO? A guy who appears good enough to give a spot start.

We had a bird in the hand with Steve Blake when presto-change-o Stan turns back the clock on Blake and Beno appears.

THEN, the Grand Finale.. Santa grants Stanley's Christmas wish with a Christmas ISH. Go looking for a b/u PG who we hope has enough game to assist in a playoff push, and we get a guy putting up numbers good enough to push for a starting role.

Open the envelope please.

[lemonpen]

Good News1:  He is approaching RFA exactly like one would hope to see.  Dude is going about the business of proving his worth.

Good News2:  KCP continues what is becoming an impressive stretch of year over year improvement.  I would bet most players tend to have plateaued by year 3 or 4.

Bad News:  This, being a contract year makes one wonder if there could be a downturn in performance once they " SHOW HIM THE MONEY "

[lemonpen]

That's an excellent assessment of the situation, it's not the record it's the trajectory they're on!

Light Reading for Wise:

Coach Stan Van Gundy is running more of his offense through Caldwell-Pope and the shooting guard has responded well. He’s averaging 19.5 points over the last six games and has racked up 21 assists over the last four outings.

The Pistons have a dynamic duo in KCP and Tobias Harris:

One of the most interesting trends to emerge so far is the superb play of both Tobias Harris and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. Individually, both are having excellent seasons, currently first and second in scoring on the team with 17.1 and 14.9 points per game respectively.

When KCP and Harris are on the floor together, the Pistons are outscoring their opponents 112.6 to 107.2 points per 100 possessions, yielding a net rating of +5.4. This is consistent with last season’s numbers, where they outscored the opposition 112.2 to 108.8 for a net rating of +3.4.

Still can't buy into the consistency because of a 6 game stretch. If these numbers stay the same by the time we hit mid season then perhaps. Defensively they're a bit better but only as a team. Individually I don't think anyone has improved much from last season.  

I'm pretty sure we have all made key decisions in our lives based on less data.

Did you really downplay the importance of improved TEAM defense over individual efforts.

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