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We're seeing the other side of the coin

Post  Sparma on Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:24 pm

Reggie Jackson was outstanding in his first half season with the Pistons, every game of which I watched. His rep coming in was that he could create his own shot and that he was above average with the pick and roll, as well as a decent but not great shooter. Also, it looked like he caused trouble in OKC on his way out. Even in playing well with the Pistons, he slowed down the tempo (in comparison with Jennings) and played a selfish, if effective, brand of ball.

SVG's done a great job in rebuilding. He's managed to make lopsided trades (Jackson, Morris, Harris) by taking on players who for various reasons were deemed expendable elsewhere. In doing so, combined with other astute moves, SVG pulled off an astonishingly speedy rebuild.

But those lopsided trades didn't happen by coincidence. We weren't picking up Anthony Davis for a boatload of second tier talent. The very method that SVG employed came with taking on significantly flawed, limited, players. The speediness of the recovery came with accepting a relatively low ceiling of accomplishment. We've become a pretty good team in a hurry (and less than that at the moment).

Specifically, SVG opted for a strong axis in Reggie and Drummond, to be supplemented by solid players. Brilliant plan and it's succeeded pretty well until recently. But it's a plan that comes with inherent limitations.

Didn't watch Reggie vs Chicago, but it sounds like petulant, me-first, behavior. This can't be a surprise. I've been skeptical all along that he's a genuine franchise PG. Maybe he'll put in a mature performance today, but I think he's roughly what he'll be moving forward. I don't foresee a great leap forward by RJ.

Could we become great as a team?

Possibly, if our flawed center becomes a genuine superstar, or if the number 18 pick develops not merely into a good NBA player but a star, or if we're able to pull off a trade for a top level player.

SVG's played the odds brilliantly thus far. Now the odds are against him breaking on through to the other side. The past few days accentuate problems long paired with the creative rebuilding strategy adopted by SVG.
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I just want to know one thing

Post  deusXango on Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:03 pm

How the hell does SVG know what the players gripes are all about, based on a "players only meeting?" He's made a lot of comments based on the players lack of professionalism, and their sorry defensive play. Didn't the Pistons have one of the top defenses in the NBA before Reggie's return?

"Everybody's got to play the game the right way, but nobody's out there to make the other guy happy," Van Gundy said. Is Reggie Jackson's style of play what one would call "the right way?" Isn't the "other guy" what's called teammates? "People should worry more about what they're doing to help their teammates. Ish Smith does a better job of helping his teammates than Reggie Jackson does. The JFK thing, instead of asking what everyone is supposed to do to keep you happy, how about you doing something to help your teammates. We're in a wrong mindset." When a ball hog is encouraged to play to his selfish instincts and a team full of skilled multi-millionaires are told to basically stand and watch "The Mediocre Show," the coach is promoting the wrong mindset!
Players have expressed frustration over their number of touches and decreased shot attempts since Jackson's returned, a stretch in which the Pistons are 3-6 and averaging a league-worst 93.6 points per game. Why is frustration being ignored? When a team is playing .500+ ball before Reggie's return, with an "inferior" journeyman leading the way, and playing .333 ball and plummeting to the point we have Players Only meetings; when we have loses in that number that are to less talented teams, isn't that reason for concern? A LEAGUE-WORST 93.6 POINTS PER GAME!!!!

This is one of the major reasons why I say SVG is a better executive than coach. The coaching game has passed him by and he has too much power as President/coach of our beloved Pistons. Ego is coaching the team and we have a diva leading it.
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What kind of PG does this team need? Let history be your guide!

Post  Oracle on Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:41 pm

Not far off history, but recent history is all you need to see the type of PG we need. To see this, just go back to when we cut Josh Smith!

Wise loved him, and that's alright, but what he didn't see was how and why they were beating every major team in sight.

Jennings was a disruptive PG, a dude that would drive the paint looking for open shooters! he put a LOT of pressure on defenses and that opened up the floor for everybody else to perform.

During that stretch we were amazing, but unfortunately, it got cut short all too soon when he got hurt.

Fast forward to today! Ish Smith is very similar, he puts a lot of pressure on defenses,,, a LOT! He delivers what a young team does best, run the damn floor at every opportunity and get teams playing on their heels as we attack going downhill at top speed!

That style worked wonders for everybody on the roster(except the excuse making Stanley Johnson).

Again, the great play ended, but this time we ended it ourselves!

So what about Reggie? Well, let's face it, his feelings got hurt, the guys he believed had his back through thick and thin appeared to turn on him. instead of him being the answer, he was now the problem.

Ok, that was his first reaction, I don't like it, but I can easily move past that if it doesn't happen again and he gets the freaking message!

At this point the ONLY lineup change should be taking Reggie out of the starting lineup! If that isn't what SVG does, then he shouldn't do anything! If Reggie apologizes(Hell, Drummond pouted before too), then we need to move on! If he doesn't, then put Ish Smith in there and don't look back!

Look, SVG knew who Reggie was before we got him, he pulled the same crap in OKC, and that's why Westbrook and Durant hated him so much, there's nothing like a dude that won't have your back when you go to war, and that's exactly what Reggie did to his team!

SVG made this bed and he has to lie in it, fleas and bed bugs are the price of admission.

Stanley Johnson: Under no circumstances should another cancer be allowed in the starting lineup, that would be a major mistake! You can't reward poor play and bad attitude that much.

I want him in the starting lineup, but I want him to EARN it, then it will truly mean something to both him and us!
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Re: FORUM

Post  cool breeze on Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:42 pm

Phil1980boy wrote:If Stan Van Gundy wants to start Stanley Johnson then go ahead and do it!!


What does Detroit have to lose? John and Morris will finish most games anyway.

If Stan believes that Stanley is the guy then pull the trigger and start the kid. The Pistons are not ready to be A good team night in and night out anyways.

Go ahead and make A move that will benefit the future..

Stan has to get Johnson out of the corner and into pick and roll plays. Stan needs to handle the ball and attack using his left hand. Get it together Stanley Johnson

You got it right Phil on this post. Johnson has to have a bigger role on the team. He is not a guy who is good at just blending in. The Pistons need more key players who have been part of a winning program on at least some level of competition. Notice that Johnson really can see the floor and he will get the ball to the open man and give up his shot. Johnson just needs to get his timing down and get a little more arc on his jump shot. He set some hard screens in the paint during the 4th quarter and more players need to get physical as well. The starters are now feeling the heat because none of them know how to sacrifice for THE TEAM. This should be a development year so Ellenson should be in the rotation moving forward. Just watching him last night, I saw that his basic instincts are good on both offense and defense.

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DX n Phil

Post  BallinD on Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:26 pm

If its me, im all for that trade, I been liking Noel and proposed a trade for him earlier DX, but I'm more in the blow it up mold, for strategically dumping Dre and Reggie as well now. I'd love to have Noel anchoring the defense.

Phil, I agree. Trying to figure how to get Reggie's biotchazz outta here, but in the meantime, I'm gonna sit him behind Ish and Beno and ride it out.  Sorry, after last night, I can't trust him if I'm SVG.  In fact, I would have yanked his sorry, stuntin azz in the first quarter, played ish/Beno 30 mins at least.

Trade at or before the deadline.  No sacred cows.

BTW SVG stands for Stupid Van Gundy.  This was totally unecessary!

We need shooting, heart, BBIQ and young, springy athleticism.  That's all.
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wow Reggie Jackson

Post  Phil1980boy on Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:28 am

Wow. Reggie showed how immature he really is tonight.

Not sure where this team is headed but when one of your best players is acting like A B.I.T.C.H it's not A good place to be.

Might be time to make A trade and move on from Reggie Jackson.

Jackson totally quit on the Pistons tonight. I guess he was making A point. I don't think quitting on your team is A good way to make any point.


thumbs down thumbs down thumbs down thumbs down thumbs down Reggie thumbs down thumbs down thumbs down thumbs down thumbs down
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I'm thinking...

Post  deusXango on Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:54 am

I ain't giving up no draft picks but, I will give up Baynes, Johnson, and Hilliard for Nerlens Noel and Philly's (unprotected) 1st round pick in 2017. I'd love to be in the running for Lonzo Ball. He'd damn sure answer our PG needs for years to come and you don't get quality without giving up something of value. Just a random thought.
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Cancer

Post  KaySlay on Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:08 am

Kuester
Can we agree Reggie is the problem?

Vince Ellis wrote:But The most amazing part of the first quarter was Jackson. Jackson didn’t even look at the basket in 12 minutes of action in the first quarter.
He would bring the ball up the floor and just pass to the wing and move over to the corner with an obvious emphasis on taking him off the ball.
Jackson didn’t take his first shot until late in the second quarter – well after the game was decided.

If I didn't see it with my own eyes, I would not believe it. I knew SVG messed up inserting Reggie but this....

SVG traded for you to make you a starter in this league. SVG gave you the reigns to the team. SVG gave you that 5 year deal no one else would. SVG threw Ish to bench for your injured behind when he was playing the best ball of his life. He did all that because he believed in you Reggie, and this is how you repay us?

Starting Leuer or tweaking the starting lineup wont cut it. As I and other have posted, the effort is not there.

Who is the leader on this team? Do we even have one?

Andre is the longest tenured Piston. He sure disappointed me tonight. But he is still young right? facepalm

I need time to digest this...




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Talk About A Turkey

Post  BallinD on Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:36 pm

So Reggie is dribbling into the front court, passing the ball to someone, then going to stand in the corner with his hands on his knees. He is facilitating? Or is he pouting? "See what it looks like when I don't shoot guys?"

Give me a break. Get this turkey out of the Starting Lineup.
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The left eye don't see what the right eye does...Why? It's called cockeyed!

Post  deusXango on Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:04 pm

I knew it, I knew it! Even though SVG openly admitted that the team began to suck to high heaven, once Reggie was reinstalled into the starting unit, everyone from the Palace parking lot attendants to SVG have been looking for solutions to turn this thing around but, none of them include bringing "drunk ass" Reggie off the bench until he regains his feel for the team.

Damn people, the record speaks for itself!! Earlier on we couldn't win on the road but, we started kicking ass on the road. SVG was having kittens because we weren't playing defense, then all of a sudden we had one of the best defenses in the league. KCP began playing the best ball of his career, on a consistent basis. The scoring was balanced damn near through the rotation (based on the PT for all involved). We weren't getting our asses kicked coming out the gate, because of lackadaisical play, and Andre was getting more touches and playing the type of Big Man ball we all want to see from him. This was done with Ish Smith as our starting PG. I remember when we boasted of not having a team score 90 points on us, then we went to, nobody scored 100 on us in our house...all that's changed...we can't seem to score 90 points anywhere, and teams are routinely scoring 100+ points on us. Replacing Morris with Leuer, installing Stanley in the lineup, yada, yada, yada; the only way Reggie should be starting is because SVG/Bower are shopping his ass for an upgrade over him and Smith! The team, sans Reggie, has proven it's capable of competing with anyone in the league, with possibly the exception of the elite teams, which there are only a few!

Going off point: Why is Tony Romo the sh!t but, Dak Prescott ain't sh!t because of the offensive line he plays behind? Hasn't Romo played behind the same offensive line? Back to regular programming.

The pick & roll was working with more than just the PG and center but, everyone seemed to be benefitting from it; didn't SVG see what these unschooled eyes see? Why then is he calling plays for the high priced Reggie, but he allowed this well traveled FA signee freelance sol much? The 1 in 4 out wasn't working and Smith did figure out how to make the offense work with the talent around him work. Now the team is learning how to play with Reggie, instead of the other way around; this to me is a cockeyed way of looking for solutions created by fixing something that wasn't broken.

What we did last year to get into the playoffs won't sustain us this year; this is a new season and should be treated as such. Living in the past is not new; that type of thinking has contributed to failure since the beginning of mans attempt to rule. Oh, by the way, Jon Leuer is the backbone of our bench, IMHO, and is doing what he was signed to do. He's one hell of a player.
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Go ahead and do it Stan

Post  Phil1980boy on Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:59 pm

If Stan Van Gundy wants to start Stanley Johnson then go ahead and do it!!


What does Detroit have to lose? John and Morris will finish most games anyway.

If Stan believes that Stanley is the guy then pull the trigger and start the kid. The Pistons are not ready to be A good team night in and night out anyways.

Go ahead and make A move that will benefit the future..

Stan has to get Johnson out of the corner and into pick and roll plays. Stan needs to handle the ball and attack using his left hand. Get it together Stanley Johnson
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Re: FORUM

Post  lemonpen on Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:57 pm

To SVG's credit he was VERY candid in the last post game presser.  It was pretty obvious he sees exactly what we do in terms of a significant dropoff with RJ's arrival.   As a reminder he did articulate one sentiment that I had forgotten.  "Last year this starting unit played on par with any other in the league", making patience today something worthwhile.  

But, I think our first 20 games was beginning to uncover a style of play that may be more sustainable, and maybe  more potent.  That style of play provided a reminder of the mantra shared by both our Ship Shape squads, "almost any guy can kill you on any given night".    

Because of that I'm willing to up the ante and offer RJ / Drum Drum / SJ plus change, for Anthony Davis plus a bad contract.


Last edited by lemonpen on Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Interesting

Post  BallinD on Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:10 pm

RJ: “I don’t call the plays. Plays are called, we run them and I attack in pick-and-roll situations,” Jackson said. “Where the play says the ball is going, that’s where I pass it.”

SVG: "We've definitely got to look at some things, lineup and rotation-wise," Van Gundy said. "That unit is clearly not working. At least not right now. So the question is, how long do you stick with it?"

"There's no question we're not as good as we were before," Van Gundy said. "That's just a fact. Now, is that all on him? No. No, we have a lot of guys not playing as well. One of those games, Pope missed, Jon (Leuer) missed a game. So there's been some other things. It's not on him.

"But if you're asking me, in eight games, have we gotten better? No. Hell no. We've gotten worse."

Harris: “That’s what really got us to call a meeting was our schedule coming up,” Harris said. “We have to get on top of it. We need to be better all around. We’ve got to play harder and we’ve got to play more as a unit.”
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My take if I'm SVG

Post  Go Stones! on Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:04 am

1. Keep the starters the way they are.  KCP and Dre are not the problem. The other starters are potential chess move pawns.

2. Give a warning to Reggie (and everyone else, however I believe that was what everyone was telling the rest at the meeting) that if he plays ball hog or has the wrong attitude that he will be subbed out immediately.  

3. As soon as it is apparent, sub in Leur when either Morris or Harris are not hitting shots and/or covering their man defensively

As an aside, Leur has essentially taken much of Johnson's minutes.  Therefore Johnson is trying to gain minutes at SG, which is not his speed/strength.  

I sense a trade coming folks!  Morris' salary is too valuable.  KCP and Dre are untouchable imo.  Reggie could be expendable if he doesn't correct himself.  Will Harris ever max his potential? If not, would be a great trade chip. I'd say needs are backup center since Aaron is out after the year and backup SG.

This team reminds me of the 2000 pistons when we had a bunch of slightly above average players with good trade value and Joe D combined them and got better players.
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Phillip & Good Read...

Post  Oracle on Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:43 am

Phil1980boy wrote:I know exactly what Stan was hoping he could do right about now.

Stan wants to place Stanley Johnson in the starting 5 but he can't do it right now because Stanley Johnson is playing TRASH basketball.

I said this before the season started and I will say it again. Detroit is not winning A championship this season.

The main goal is to develop A star player or two or go find some young studs who can develop into stars.

Yes I want to win now but if I have to take A step back then this is the time now while Andre Drummonds is young.
Good post Phillip, and I also must give you props for recognizing the steps that KCP is taking although he still needs to get better, as most of our young studs do. BTW, I also agree with the comment that if we have to take a step back, this is the year to do it, but I still see us making the playoffs, even if we limp in.

That leads me to your Stanley comment! The article I'll link to says a lot of things about this team. Some of which I agree with, some I disagree with and some I never thought of!

The one I never thought of was EXACTLY what you just said... put Stanley Johnson into the starting lineup! Obviously, Stanley has blown it because his play is so bad that putting him into the starting lineup would piss off a lot of players and cause a near revolt.

But we've started players in the past that didn't score much if their defense was very good. Stanley is a good defender, but he's not that good where it would justify that move. Another was solving the problems with a blockbuster trade(hummmmmm).

Anyway, the article is a good read, where they ask and try to answer our most vexing questions, so for all that get a chance, check it out.

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2016/12/18/13999784/dbb-on-3-players-only-meeting-edition wrote:After two bad losses in two nights, which capped three losses in the last four (very winnable) games, the Detroit Pistons had an airing of grievances in a team meeting Saturday night. The dreaded “Players-Only Meeting” can cause a lot of consternation among fans, so we asked the DBB staff to give their thoughts on the why and the what of it all.
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new starting 5

Post  Phil1980boy on Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:35 am

I know exactly what Stan was hoping he could do right about now.

Stan wants to place Stanley Johnson in the starting 5 but he can't do it right now because Stanley Johnson is playing TRASH basketball.

I said this before the season started and I will say it again. Detroit is not winning A championship this season.

The main goal is to develop A star player or two or go find some young studs who can develop into stars.

Yes I want to win now but if I have to take A step back then this is the time now while Andre Drummonds is young.
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NY

Post  Sparma on Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:41 pm

This is the game where I thought they might pull the upset, ending all suspense. Was not to be. Looks like 538's giving them a 31% chance against Dallas. That sounds high to me, but Dak does seem to be slowing down. If only they have one more game like against NO in them.

Oracle wrote:
Sparma wrote:Rodgers is pretty good, burning the Bears with a 60 yard dagger.  I listened to the end of the Bears broadcast.  They weren't happy, neither was the Bears player they tried to interview immediately after the game.  Looks like we get to root for the Vikings against the Pack next week.  Maybe, just maybe, the Packers stumble or the Lions beat the Cowboys, but I'm getting a sick feeling it's all going to boil down to the last week against GB.  The Lions can definitely do it, but I'm proving to be one of little faith, just as Wise diagnosed.
Although to be honest, they should have won this game, but that's the perils of road games, stuff happens!

It's not little faith, it's recognizing reality! The only game I think they have a ghost of a chance of winning is the GB game, and I'm shaky on believing they can do that.

But this was a game that a QB wanting the big bucks HAS to win! The Giants just aren't that good this year, this loss hurt!
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Sparma, Wise wasn't too wise :)

Post  Oracle on Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:59 pm

Sparma wrote:Rodgers is pretty good, burning the Bears with a 60 yard dagger.  I listened to the end of the Bears broadcast.  They weren't happy, neither was the Bears player they tried to interview immediately after the game.  Looks like we get to root for the Vikings against the Pack next week.  Maybe, just maybe, the Packers stumble or the Lions beat the Cowboys, but I'm getting a sick feeling it's all going to boil down to the last week against GB.  The Lions can definitely do it, but I'm proving to be one of little faith, just as Wise diagnosed.
Although to be honest, they should have won this game, but that's the perils of road games, stuff happens!

It's not little faith, it's recognizing reality! The only game I think they have a ghost of a chance of winning is the GB game, and I'm shaky on believing they can do that.

But this was a game that a QB wanting the big bucks HAS to win! The Giants just aren't that good this year, this loss hurt!
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DX, Ballin & KaySlay

Post  Oracle on Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:55 pm

deusXango wrote:"Van Gundy mentioned the possibility of a change to the starting lineup, admitting his team wasn't in a good place right now. They are 3-5 since Reggie Jackson's return to the starting lineup, with a road game at Chicago up next."
-MLive


The possible change won't have a thing to do with Reggie Jackson. The "bad place" the team entered was the day SVG reinstated Jackson into the starting lineup without proper game preparation (overall game shape), totally ignoring the developing chemistry with his team. IMHO that was an unwise coaching decision. If Reggie is not removed from the starting lineup, being replaced with Smith, and another player (Morris removed in favor of Leuer) is, it'll effectively poison this season. Reggie coming back is welcomed but, returning him to the starting lineup was too soon!!

You guys have nailed it! They won't say it, but Reggie is 80-90% of the problem! Don may not see it, but his vision is directed elsewhere.

This team is like night and day since Reggie came back, and you guys have documented it well, ball movement is down, defense is down, hell, as good as KCP played, even his defense wasn't very good. But defense is a team game, and sadly, Reggie is a horrible defender for the tools he has to work with!

Unfortunately, Reggie won't be coming off the bench any time soon, but he never should have come back as a starter until he got his chemistry and conditioning back.

So what do we do? The obvious is to start Leuer, move Morris to the bench and move Harris to SF... obvious, but not quite fair, and I'm not sure how that would sit with the team.

I just hope the solution is to simply straighten Reggie out and have him focus on moving the ball like Ish instead of trying to pound the air out of the ball on every possession.


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Don, you can't see the big picture or string together 2 facts, and here's why!

Post  Oracle on Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:49 pm

It comes from your own words,
Don wrote:Oracle this post is insane. Did you even bother to watch this game against Washington? There is no way you could have watched this game and made those statements about the 20 year old Johnson unless you are blind or drunk

Right back at you, you must be either blind or drunk to miss the fact that the post I made was MANY hours before the game!

But what's even worse is that what I said has very little to do with how Stanley plays in any game, his problems go a lot deeper... as it appears that yours do.

You're struggling to see anything that's going on with this team, which means you see things that aren't the problem while the real problems slip right past you. I'm not sure if it's your blindness or the liquor Smile 

Maybe you should spend less time playing with the hairs in Stanley's jock, and more time watching the rest of the game lol


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GB

Post  Sparma on Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:31 pm

Rodgers is pretty good, burning the Bears with a 60 yard dagger. I listened to the end of the Bears broadcast. They weren't happy, neither was the Bears player they tried to interview immediately after the game. Looks like we get to root for the Vikings against the Pack next week. Maybe, just maybe, the Packers stumble or the Lions beat the Cowboys, but I'm getting a sick feeling it's all going to boil down to the last week against GB. The Lions can definitely do it, but I'm proving to be one of little faith, just as Wise diagnosed.
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Reggie is taking all the heat but the rest of the starters looked like 45 year old players against Indiana

Post  cool breeze on Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:15 pm

Coach SVG has his work cut out for him. The starting unit showed their inability to guard opposing key players against both Washington and Indiana. You have to be a good two way player now to be considered a successful NBA starter. Harris, Morris, and Pope could not guard George in this last game. Johnson did a much better job and that is why is received more playing time. Neither Jackson or Smith could guard either Jeff for Indiana or John from Washington. Both point guard were able to get anywhere they wanted to and score whenever they decided to penetrate.

About mid way in the 3rd quarter Detroit mounted a comeback and that comeback was sparked by improved defense. Pope got hot from the 3 point line making 3 or 4 shot. The ball moved better and the players set screens for each other. Pope made the shots but his teammates did all the dirty work that is required for a team to be a success. Then just as quickly, Pope took his team out of the game my taking about 6 CONtESTED SHOTS in a row. On all of those 6 possessions, Pope failed to make the correct pass to a wide open teammate. After Pope decided to be a one man show, all the other players got out of the rhythm that had sparked the comeback. That was a big key to the game because during the comeback, players were getting open looks on the weak side that were not there in the entire first half. The possessions went like this after Detroit cut the lead to 11 points. Pope misses-Pope misses-Pope misses-Pope misses-Pope misses- Pope misses. Many of those shots were early in the shot clock. On all of those possessions, there were other teammates wide open. Just one more pass and you can get a much different result. Both Pope and Morris have the ability to shoot a team either in or out of any given game. The Detroit Pistons need better balance and the players need to play with a much higher basketball IQ or there will be many more games that hey will lose by 20 or more points if the team they are playing have a 500 or better record.

The point guards are playing pretty wild and crazy and they are not able to defend the top point guards in the league right now. But on offense the point guards are not totally at fault for the low point production. Three players were not moving without the basketball - Pope-Morris-Drummond. t saw very few screens set by any of the starters for the entire first half. The floor spacing looked OK in the first half but the starters just stood in their positions and Jackson was forced to dribble way too much. So it is not all Jackson and Smith's fault. The other 4 starters were doing nothing but resting with the exception of Harris who did move and work hard to get open without any help from this teammates relating to setting screens. But Harris had a horrible night shooting the ball. He could not make a shot to save his life. That happens to all players at times so I don't blame Harris. Harris failed the team because he couldn't guard Paul George period.

The reason why Stan Van Gundy advised that he is going to think things over today as to possibly changing the starting lineup is a correct thing to do. The Pistons need at least one player to play unselfishly. One guy has to do the dirty work on both offense and defense to get the team rolling in a positive way. We need a player who is capable of setting some hard screens, get to open spots quickly, make good passes to open shooters, and play amazing help defense. Too many of the starters are the same type of players. To get any positive chemistry, a team needs one guy to show the others that it is fun to play unselfishly. Remember the Washington game where the Piston starters were fresh and they seldom even tried to get into the paint for a jump shot within 6 to 8 feet from the basket. That was amazing to see so many players launching those long bombs against on ball pressure. Who does that and gets playing time when they are shooting at a low percentage? Follow poor shot selection with an incredibly low aptitude on the defensive end, and that gets you buried on the bench. But our starters have not gone to the bench yet but maybe one or two will feel that bite in the ass soon.

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Last Eight Games

Post  KaySlay on Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Prior Reggie's return the Pistons had won 5 of their last 8 games including road wins at Boston, Atlanta and Charlotte and a home with against the Clippers. Ish seemed to be finding his groove with his new team. We were pushing the ball. Andre was dominating the bigs in the east. We were taking care of the ball. We were fun to watch.

Ish was getting to the paint at will. KCP, Tobias, and Andre we reaping the benefits of the dribble penetration. We were moving without the ball. Our defense also was energized. Our players knew if they moved on offense, they would be rewarded with an easy shot.

I remember saying to my Pops that when Reggie is ready to come back we need to bring him off the bench. BRING HIM ALONG SLOWLY. Allow him to get into game shape, playing against the second unit. There is no rush to bring him back due to Ish handling the team so well in his absence. Even though Ish isn't the answer long term, and Reggie is obviously better offensively, defensively, and overall WE DONT NEED TO RUSH HIS RETURN!

Surely our veteran Coach and Executive recognized this lightning in a bottle and would proceed appropriately.

facepalm Fast forward to the to Reggie's return and we have LOST 5 out of 8 games. We've lost to the Magic, Wizards, and GOD AWFUL 76ers. Reggie looks like a shell of himself from last year. The offense under his reign has stalled. Ish has been taken out of his groove. We've moved from 7th in the east to LAST PLACE in the Central. NOW Aaron Baynes of all people calls a players only meeting?

What did SVG see in Reggie to bench Ish during our hottest stretch of the year? Did he think what Ish was doing insignificant or easily replicated by Reggie? I assumed SVG would make the right decision. It looks like he dropped the ball big time and now the Pistons are at a make or break point in the season.

Watching the game last night, I saw a disinterested team. IDGAF about back to backs or getting home late. You are an NBA team playing at home. I saw very little effort last night, but in reality I don't care about the loss. We were never going to win a Championship this year or next. The goal is continuous improvement and development of our very young roster. The lack of effort and obvious regression concerns me tremendously. How can we turn this potential boondoggle around?
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Not In A Good Place?

Post  BallinD on Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:09 am

No, of course not. As DX says, and I and others have said even before Reggie came back, SVG unecessarily shot himself in the foot with the way he played the Jackson return.  Another SVG blunder.
 
If he makes the right correction, we can regain our mojo.  

It's like you finally had a ball movement and pushing the pace team with all the energy that brings to the court dynamic, then you went back to trot the ball up the court, dribble, dribble, dribble,  "I'm passing to myself and I'm also shooting guys, cause that's what I do."  

They look out of sync, confused and pissed.  The defense is not there and that and chemistry are related to overall energy and pace and scrapping for stops and moving the ball and not going backwards to one-on-one ball and trying to outscore teams.  And if you watch the games you can see that even when Reggie passes, it almost seems to mostly catch his teamates by surprise.

Tobias looking out of sorts, Ish out of sorts, Dre out of sorts, and so it goes.

As for Stanley, he is a good defender. Period. If you watch the games, any other conclusion is delusional.  That would be enough, if we had more bench scoring.  We sure could use Bullock right about now, and I still want to see more Silent G and Ellensen.

The season tilt is on the line, will it go up, or continue to tilt downward?
 

Its not the numbers.  You can see it if you watch the games.
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Even money that...

Post  deusXango on Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:24 am

"Van Gundy mentioned the possibility of a change to the starting lineup, admitting his team wasn't in a good place right now. They are 3-5 since Reggie Jackson's return to the starting lineup, with a road game at Chicago up next."
-MLive


The possible change won't have a thing to do with Reggie Jackson. The "bad place" the team entered was the day SVG reinstated Jackson into the starting lineup without proper game preparation (overall game shape), totally ignoring the developing chemistry with his team. IMHO that was an unwise coaching decision. If Reggie is not removed from the starting lineup, being replaced with Smith, and another player (Morris removed in favor of Leuer) is, it'll effectively poison this season. Reggie coming back is welcomed but, returning him to the starting lineup was too soon!!
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