Re: FORUM

[cool breeze]

@Don - I'm just not of the school that believes that there is only one way to win games! Every game is different, and by that I mean that we vary between games and so does the other team.

But there are some nights where you just have to flat out outscore the other team! Great teams can win games in a variety of ways, and if the other team is hot or whatever, sometimes you fight fire with fire!

Could Jennings have helped us in this game? Who knows, but I wouldn't rule it out just because he's not a great defender, sometimes you need a great scorer, someone they can't predict so well to throw the defense off! Games like this is why you want a Jennings on your 2nd unit, because nothing else was working!

The Game: This game doesn't require rocket science or long pages of analysis, this one is easy... the best team won!

I felt that way in the game we beat them, and nothing's changed, Boston is a better team, while we have slightly better talent! Boston's team came together late last season. they meshed as a unit and got a little playoff experience. The fact is that their development as a team is ahead of us!

When you lose to a better team, you take the lessons from it! Don pointed a few of them out and I agree, they're a lot more polished and play well together! We're not going to beat teams that play like that until we get our chemistry a bit better and mostly until we become as disciplined as they are!

The sigh of a young team is the level of focus! Our focus changes from game to game! We got used to the laser focus these guys came out of the gate with, but since then they've gotten sloppy.

Playing great defense like they used to do covered a lot of issues, but they need to be addressed now. It's not good to see these losses, but this home loss really hurts!

We'll recover as desperation sets in, but as SVG said, he has to remind himself that he's playing a few 22 year olds, a 19 year old kid... this is a young team, so there's going to be ups and downs until they mature!

After watching part of this last game again, it was clear to me that the starting group has the ability to play good team defense but they didn't do it in the last two games. If their shots are not falling and the other team makes some tough shots like against Boston and Atlanta, then I saw a lot of the players let up on defense. Could Jennings be any worse than Pope was against Thomas? Maybe not once Jennings gets his lateral movement back and gets in game shape. Brandon will need more time to get ready. In the meantime, KCP will have some real pressure on him to show that he can be a more consistent shooter and play maker on offense and a lock down defender. After watching Pope play this last game again, it was clear that he is gambling a lot. He cannot stay in front of his man. But I also saw a lack of communication between Pope and his teammates on defense. Drummond is often in the wrong spot in the rotations. He fails to challenge mid range shots or help on the weak side enough. Once Drummond gets his defense in gear he will be the best center in the game. I have full confidence that by next season, his free throw percentage will be at least 60%.

[Phil-Good]

I did not like this L because Boston came in the gym with the attitude that they know they can beat Detroit. Boston locked in for 4-Quarters and kick Detroit's A.Z.Z

I would take this L personal if I was the Detroit Pistons.

[Oracle]

@Don - I'm just not of the school that believes that there is only one way to win games! Every game is different, and by that I mean that we vary between games and so does the other team.

But there are some nights where you just have to flat out outscore the other team! Great teams can win games in a variety of ways, and if the other team is hot or whatever, sometimes you fight fire with fire!

Could Jennings have helped us in this game? Who knows, but I wouldn't rule it out just because he's not a great defender, sometimes you need a great scorer, someone they can't predict so well to throw the defense off! Games like this is why you want a Jennings on your 2nd unit, because nothing else was working!

The Game: This game doesn't require rocket science or long pages of analysis, this one is easy... the best team won!

I felt that way in the game we beat them, and nothing's changed, Boston is a better team, while we have slightly better talent! Boston's team came together late last season. they meshed as a unit and got a little playoff experience. The fact is that their development as a team is ahead of us!

When you lose to a better team, you take the lessons from it! Don pointed a few of them out and I agree, they're a lot more polished and play well together! We're not going to beat teams that play like that until we get our chemistry a bit better and mostly until we become as disciplined as they are!

The sigh of a young team is the level of focus! Our focus changes from game to game! We got used to the laser focus these guys came out of the gate with, but since then they've gotten sloppy.

Playing great defense like they used to do covered a lot of issues, but they need to be addressed now. It's not good to see these losses, but this home loss really hurts!

We'll recover as desperation sets in, but as SVG said, he has to remind himself that he's playing a few 22 year olds, a 19 year old kid... this is a young team, so there's going to be ups and downs until they mature!

[BallinD]

Well, in the previous Celtics game they scored 116, we held them to 99 and kept Thomas and Sullinger from feasting on us as we did in the previous game. KCP held Thomas to 4-14. and Sullinger was held to 10 points.

OTOH, we shot less than 38 percent from the field, to their 46, and RJ was 5-14, Blake 1-3 and KCP 3-13. So it makes sense, an offensive spark could have helped.

[cool breeze]

It is surprising to read that some believe Blake didn't do a good job in this game. He was the best point guard on the floor for the Pistons. At one point he stole the ball twice to on the same offensive trip down the floor to keep the Pistons alive. The reason why Boston won that game is the fact that they have better skill players and are more disciplined than our players. And the key factor is that Boston players are better defenders at the skill positions. So how does kenning help. Boston would play Jennings the same way they played Jackson. They would crowd him and hope that he dribbled the ball around without getting his teammates involved in the offense like Jackson did tonight.

WHY DID DETROIT LOSE THIS GAME?

KCP played another horrible first half. It is funny that some of you focus on Blake in this game. Pope couldn't defend my Grandmother tonight. This is becoming a habit especially in the first half of games. He cannot stay in front of his man and allows dribble penetration. He fails to anticipate the high screen. And with that said, he offered nothing on the offensive end. He is a prime time starter at the 2 guard? I think not. He is still a work in progress with huge fluctuations in his play on both ends. He might run a lot but he is often not effective on the defensive end. How much playing time would Pope get on this Boston team? I am not sure but it looks like Boston has better players at Pope's position when one considers what their two guards offer on the defensive end and their consistency on offense.

Tolliver had another night where he offered next to nothing offensively. He did hit one 3 point shot but he had no mid range game and was way off target all night from the 3 point range. How much playing time would Tolliver get on this Boston team? No playing time is the answer.

Boston gets great ball and player movement on offense. The team is fun to watch. Great coaching and great work ethic by the players is evident. Boston players seem to always get an open look for mid range jump shots. That takes hard work. They are not standing around and their point guards deliver the basketball to the open man.

My gut feeling is that Jennings cannot defend many two guards in the NBA. Meeks is too small and is also a poor defender. Then there is KCP. Something needs to be done. I think it is time to throw caution to the wind and start Stanley Johnson at the 2 guard. He will get in foul trouble for sure but he is a better defender than Pope and given Pope's crazy minutes, will for sure score more points. If Van Gundy is looking long range to build a championship team, then Johnson should be playing more at the 2 guard spot and Pope less minutes. Johnson is bigger than Pope and just as quick. And Johnson can finish inside and rebound better. If Van Gundy made that move for sure Pope could get further behind in his development but Pope has had a lot of time to develop to this point and he just isn't a top tier 2 guard so far. I think he will be a much better all around player in two years but so will Johnson. With this said, I trust Stan Van Gundy more than myself because he is there everyday and knows a hell of a lot more than me about the potential players have who play for him. Pope has had some great moments this season but to me he is the main reason why this team looked so over matched for most of this game tonight. I believe we need better players if our Pistons are going to compete with the best teams consistently. Our Pistons as a team get a failing grade with their team defense. And the starters played a mentally soft game on offense. This makes two games in a row that this has happened. What will Stan do if the Pistons continue this skid?

[BallinD]

Reggie and Blake both flat. Pistons looked tired and couldn't get their shots to drop.

[BallinD]

It was a dream that Jennings could ever be a Piston in the true sense of the word.  Achieved in brief tantalizing spurts.  So many naysayers, and to be sure, he fed their doubts.

Now that he is back, it is a dream (of his, and ours) to be 6th man of the year and help lead us to the second round, despite so many saying trade him, dump him, kick him to the curb for the next big thing.

It is a dream that he could stay and Microwave the heat we need on the second unit.

What are sports for, if not to dream of what could be?  

Kobe suffered the same injury in 2013.  This is a good read of the 2015 Kobe Bean Bryant project.
:
[url= http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14427243/truehoop-presents-kobe-bryant-all-day-process]Kobe's Dream/Nightmare[/url]

[Oracle]

Phillip, I didn't map out a future for Jennings with the team(although like you, I wish he would stay at the right price), or call him part of our core, we all know he's likely gone after this season, but I don't know why you consider that something to worry about.

Even if you have a rental, you want it to be useful and want to get the most out of it, so yes, I want Jennings to EXPLODE

That works for us in 2 ways!

1. It makes us better and would give us the best chance to get a higher seed and go further in the playoffs! Every team has decisions to make after a successful season, and that success attracts other talent, so if we go far with Jennings, even if he leaves, that's a big win for us.
   
2. As you mentioned, if he's really good, we can trade him and get something back that can help us in other areas.
   

So yeah, I'm drinking Kool Aid, but it's Pistons Kool Aid, not Jennings, my desire is for this team to succeed, and a recovered Jennings is important for that to happen.

[Phil-Good]

"Having said that, I really hope Jennings gets his mojo back, because we would have #2 seed talent, but unfortunately #6-8 experience and chemistry."


Oracle. I know the Brandon Jennings kool-aid is amazing if you drinking it.


Yes, Jennings is talented but he is "FOOLS GOLD" Brandon Jennings has no future with the Detroit Pistons unless he decides he wants to stay in Detroit and be Reggie Jackson back-up and make around 8 or 9 million, with the NBA salary game getting ready to EXPLODE!!??

This would be A dream come true for me. I would love for Jennings to be A part of this Detroit team moving forward but money talks.Jennings has always been A type of player who believes in his ability to lead A team as the Starting PG.

So I don't look for the Jennings impact. I do look for the Jennings trade...

[Oracle]

When we had Josh, the paint was so crowded that Jennings couldn't do his thing. Once Josh left, Jennings was absolutely CLUTCH in the 4th quarter.

In that streak, Jennings won many games in the 4th, and one very memorable game against the Spurs on a last second shot(Remember: "Form a F**king Wall")!

He even made it work with Monroe, something Reggie wasn't able to make work well! Reggie is benefiting from all of the space left now that both Josh & Monroe are long gone, a luxury Jennings never had!

I don't want to make the mistake of saying one if better than the other, but one thing is clear! They're both 4th quarter guards, although their styles are radically different!

That being the case, folks preferences will likely come down to which style they prefer. While I like both, I do lean towards Reggie, mostly because I favor the way he breaks down the defense, his superior size, and amazing ability to finish!

Having said that, I really hope Jennings gets his mojo back, because we would have #2 seed talent, but unfortunately #6-8 experience and chemistry.

I believe that we cold get the chemistry close by season end, but the maturity will take next year or so!

It was choking in the 4th quarter!  How soon we forget how we would fight and end up losing by a few and Jennings was nowhere to be found. Reggie's known to stepping up in the 4th. Can you imagine two 20+ ppg Guards that are shuffled for their maximum strength of contribution?  Along with KCP and Stanimal, we would have a great guard rotation.

Word is out that Hack-a-Dre is our krytonite.  Any team we play in the playoffs will not be afraid to use it in a series.  

[lemonpen]

It was choking in the 4th quarter!  How soon we forget how we would fight and end up losing by a few and Jennings was nowhere to be found. Reggie's known to stepping up in the 4th. Can you imagine two 20+ ppg Guards that are shuffled for their maximum strength of contribution?  Along with KCP and Stanimal, we would have a great guard rotation.

Word is out that Hack-a-Dre is our krytonite.  Any team we play in the playoffs will not be afraid to use it in a series.  

During the season, why would any team with playoff aspirations risk an avoidable loss by not using the tactic.  Shoot we just watched the 24-5 Spurs do it to the Rockets.

[lemonpen]

It was choking in the 4th quarter!  How soon we forget how we would fight and end up losing by a few and Jennings was nowhere to be found. Reggie's known to stepping up in the 4th. Can you imagine two 20+ ppg Guards that are shuffled for their maximum strength of contribution?  Along with KCP and Stanimal, we would have a great guard rotation.

Word is out that Hack-a-Dre is our krytonite.  Any team we play in the playoffs will not be afraid to use it in a series.  

During the season, why would any team with playoff aspirations risk an avoidable loss by not using the tactic. Shoot we just watched the 24-5 Spurs do it to the Rockets.

[Go Stones!]

It was choking in the 4th quarter!  How soon we forget how we would fight and end up losing by a few and Jennings was nowhere to be found. Reggie's known to stepping up in the 4th. Can you imagine two 20+ ppg Guards that are shuffled for their maximum strength of contribution?  Along with KCP and Stanimal, we would have a great guard rotation.

Word is out that Hack-a-Dre is our krytonite. Any team we play in the playoffs will not be afraid to use it in a series.

[lemonpen]

@Lemon - Very good point about Baynes, we don't appear to be using him right! He's not Andre, so maybe SVG should change up the offense a bit when he's in there.

@Ballin - I'm thinking that we don't need to be too concerned about Jennings defense on the 2nd unit, IMO, they should be a change of pace anyway. I know others disagree with that, and I can see it both ways, but I think Jennings brings so much more that in a 2nd unit, it offsets his lack of "D". I don't disagree at all. I'm hoping you are correct. Keep in mind that BJ will likely be less of a defender than pre-injury.

@Stones, @Cool - Yes, the refs have been terrible, but what else is new for the home town boys! As Don said, in the past those calls would have destroyed us, but now, more times than not, we just get tougher! Isn't it amazing.

Did I mention that I love this team

[Oracle]

And it's NOT what you think! - Van Gundy: Drummond can rise above free-throw flaws

[Oracle]

@Lemon - Very good point about Baynes, we don't appear to be using him right! He's not Andre, so maybe SVG should change up the offense a bit when he's in there.

@Ballin - I'm thinking that we don't need to be too concerned about Jennings defense on the 2nd unit, IMO, they should be a change of pace anyway. I know others disagree with that, and I can see it both ways, but I think Jennings brings so much more that in a 2nd unit, it offsets his lack of "D".

@Stones, @Cool - Yes, the refs have been terrible, but what else is new for the home town boys! As Don said, in the past those calls would have destroyed us, but now, more times than not, we just get tougher!

Did I mention that I love this team

[BallinD]

With the bench play trending up, schedule difficulty trending down, Jennings poised to return and SJ playing with more confidence and assertiveness, we're on the upswing, potentially as a complete team.

Lemon & Phil Hack a Dre is exposing what some said about Baynes. He's not in form yet either. Hope more PT will help him find his game. SVG needs to find him short jumpers, points in the paint and not necessarily around the rim. This will be a big story going forward. As Lemon pointed out, if coaches figure the only way to beat us is to get Dre on the foul line, we may have just hit our ceiling, unless Jenning can exceed expectations, we might be in trouble.

Worried that: SJ plays too much under the rim. Never see him dunk, always seems to miss a bunny or two. Troubling!

Morris' legs may be dead. Coming up short on jumpers. May need to attack the rim more. Noticed he is doing that a bit.

Illy playing hard and scrapping on D, like that. Tolliver's shot coming back. Like that too!

Better D can cover a multitude of sins. That may not bode well for the return of Swag. Go Pistons!

[Oracle]

Merry Christmas to all and to all a whatever...

"In 1891, while preparing to teach a gym class at the YMCA in Springfield, Mass., James Naismith came up with a game that was non-violent and a welcome distraction for kids stuck inside during the frigid New England winters. Naismith wrote up 13 rules for his game, and called it basket ball.

The free throw was not mentioned among the original 13 rules. In fact, the closest thing was rule No. 7, which stated "If either side makes consecutive fouls it shall count a goal for the opponents." - The History of the Free Throw

I've argued that FT shooting is NOT a part of the game, it's just the PUNISHMENT that people have agreed upon for certain infractions.

The fact is that there should NEVER be a punishment that punishes the wrong party, i.e. the victim of the infraction! A punishment should be clear and always enforced only against the person or team that had the infraction.

In short, you should NEVER have to do something in order to punish someone else! So if a foul occurs, you should get a choice to either take the ball out of bounds or shoot FT's, or if they do it twice in a row, 2 points and the ball!

The original rule would stop the intentional hacking right in its tracks!

[lemonpen]

Before the road trip I was curious about what our important opposition thought about us and two things became clear.
1- Hoiberg and Spoelstra though they could beat us without employing hack-a-Dre, and they were wrong.
2- Budenholzer did not believe they could beat us without employing hack-a-Dre, and he was correct.
I'm good with those results. We are left with a pretty clear understanding of what improvement is required to beat all three of them.

With the upcoming retirement of Kobe I'm convinced that within two years Anthony Davis will become a Laker. Pelican management will never even put a second All Star next to Davis let alone a championship caliber squad. Laker management will discover a way to extricate an increasingly frustrated AD, then use their incredible drawing power to re-create a ship shape squad.

Will the old matador defense playing Jennings work for this new version of Pistons.

Does Reggie have a snowballs chance in Hades of being selected an All Star considering his entrenched and new competition. D. Rose (name only), K. Irving, J. Teague, K. Lowery and K. Walker.

Doesn't Dre's payday grow considerably if elected an All Star.

Stan seems to have similar qualities as Daddy Rich the "Prince of Pessimism". And I love it. It will be interesting to see if he mellows as the team grows and improves.

Stanley is coming along nicely. The eyeball says he is trending steadily upward.

We need to run a different offense with Baynes in the game. He struggles in P&R trying to mirror the things Dre does. Maybe pick & pop from the elbow.

Why is it we don't seem to change up our P&R defense throughout the course of a game.

Final thoughts, Merry Christmas Piston Nation !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Phil-Good]

First thing first. The NBA is entertainment so this has to stop. As far as A basketball fan, I feel like if guys can't shoot FT's then too damn bad. But for entertainment reasons the NBA has to install A rule. I have it.

Every team gets to designate 1 player every game who shoots under 70% FT percentage as the Intentional foul protection player. So let's say I designate Ben Wallace as my I.F.P. (intentional foul player) That means his team has the option to shoot or take the ball out on the baseline on off ball fouls on Ben. But if Ben gets foul in the act of shooting he has to shoot his FT's. If I have more then 1 poor FT shooter then that's too damn bad.

That should put some of this game stopping stuff to rest.

[BallinD]

Maybe Dre needs to spend Christmas shooting free throws with Dave Hopla.

[Go Stones!]

I agree that this will work against the Pistons until Dre hits the shots AND they get a back-up center who can be a threat. It seems that Baynes has the balls and quickness, but it seems he has butter fingers a LOT of the time.

Dre needs to find his Kick@$$ and go CRAZY side! He gets down and you can see it on his face that he is mentally beat up. I remember how Jennings was crazy if he didn't get a call and would take it out on the other team. That is what Dre needs....just grit yo' teeth and bust some @$$!

It seemed that the refs and calls were against the Pistons and this was the first time I saw on NBA Pass a game that they were down and out. I'm surprised that they were able to come back and lose by only 7 points.

Turnovers and calls, along with Hack-a-Dre worked against the Pistons last night. Keep in mind it was a back-to-back. They were at their limit....did I hear that they had travel issues also? I'm not making excuses, but these guys need to remember this one and be sure not to let it happen again.

[Oracle]

Hack a Dre works because we have nothing even close to decent to replace him with!

We could still make them pay if we had a decent center to come off the bench, but SVG's attempt to do that failed, as Baynes is playing below his contract right now!

SVG put the pressure on Drummond, but it's a fools errand! SVG threatens to take him out of games early and often, but doing so means that opposing teams eyes get wide and attack the basket a lot more and we lose!

Atlanta was so successful doing this that it's going to become the single template to stop us!

I do agree with SVG when he says:

“He’s going to have to shoot the ball better at the line in order to stay in the game. He can’t continue to shoot below 50 percent. He just can’t." - SVG

Where we don't miss Monroe is on defense, and SVG is livid!!! SVG says we aren't even trying to play defense, and of course, since the bench is playing better and the team is scoring better, they believe that they can take time off on playing good defense, but SVG's to smart for that... thank goodness for tape!

“Where I really notice it is when you get ready for this game and you watch the tape of the first game and see how hard we defended and compare it to what we’re doing now, it’s a major, major difference.” - SVG

[Phil-Good]

The better team lost tonight. When it came down to playing basketball Detroit was the better team. But give all credit to ATL head coach. Greg Pop Jr. He made his decision early. If Detroit goes on any runs, Drummonds will be shooting FT's. He only made 6 or 7 FT's out of 22 attempts.

KCP strain his leg. The Pistons need some help at the 2-Guard spot. Stanley Johnson is ready for more playing time. I hope Hillard is ready to play his game.

[Oracle]

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