Re: FORUM

[cool breeze]

@Cool(Don) - I totally agree about Blake, I can't for the life of me understand why he gets absolutely no PT, when it would appear to me that it's in the best interest of the team that he stay sharp, just in case! Having said that, my eyes see a better team under Jennings, and both SVG and the team sees the same, so they may just be trying to maximize Jennings PT to get him in shape and up to speed ASAP!

On the latter part of your post, it appears that we saw different games. The defense played when Jennings was in the game was the best defense played by the Pistons in recent memory. Even the announcers commented that while the 2nd unit wasn't scoring like crazy, they didn't allow the Pacers to score, and that's how they(the 2nd unit) built those leads!

Yes, KCP didn't score well during the 1st half, but as usual lately, he scores when we really need it, and this game was no exception! If you want to say he could do better, well, that applies to every single player in the league. I'm more than happy with the way this 2 year player is playing and progressing.

BTW, I saw the loss as a coaching loss! SVG can't sit on the sidelines and let one man beat you! one man can be stopped if you actually tried. Force somebody else to do it, just don't let George get any shot he wants!

@BallinD - Jennings is playing some interesting defense! He's not really capable of keeping guys in front of him, and he's subject to getting blown by, so he's adopted a different way to play!

Jennings plays a sort of shadow defense where he doesn't directly confront his cover, he plays off of them attempting to force them into the help defense. This is working for the most part, and I give a lot of props to SVG and staff for they way they're covering up his obvious defensive limitations.

Even with his limitations, Jennings is still crafty, as witnessed by that sweet steal he got!

You mentioned two important things in your post.

1. Getting back Meeks and the potential rise of Jennings should make for a very competitive stretch run, and
2. We may be one impact player away from being really dangerous!

That 2nd point is interesting because of the questions it raises

1. Is that impact player actually the return of both Meeks & Jennings, or even Jennings himself?
2. If we get that impact player, is he a bench player or a starter, and if a starter, the only position that wouldn't cause a major disruption is at PF!

This year is shaping up to be one of the most interesting in Piston Land in a long time!

Oracle although Pope is still young with great potential, he has been slow to develop consistency considering the amount of minutes he has played. Now in his 3rd season, he is leading the team in minutes played at over 37 but hasn't yet lifted his 3 point shooting percentage even up to 300% yet. Stan Van Gundy likes to spread the floor and have his shooters nail 3 point shots. If we had a dead eye 3 point shooter playing the 2 guard or being able to hit mid range shots at a higher percentage, the Jackson-Drummond pick and roll play would be deadly. I would like to see Van Gundy reduce Pope's minutes to around 30 per game and give those minutes to Stanley Johnson, Jennings, Blake or Hilliard ( or get an outstanding 2 guard in a trade). I believe that Pope is pacing himself in the first half of games because it is clear that he is not aggressive in demanding the basketball and is content to stand in the baseline corner or just make one attempt to get open each possession. The 2 guard spot is a key position in Van Gundy's system for point production. I am not fond of what Meeks brings to the defense. And I am not sure Jennings can guard any 2 guards.

You are correct that Jennings seems to be playing better defense than last season or any season before that. This might be the result of his weight gain without gaining body fat or because he is not concentrating on scoring yet. Still, he is not classified as a good defender by any means. I watched the last broadcast on the Pacers network. Those announcers recommended that the Pacers go at Jennings more when they were on offense. What I have liked so far with Jennings is his commitment to getting his teammates more involved in the offense. He sees the court well and I expect he will start shooting the ball more once he gets his legs in game shape. One month from now, Jennings might tear up the league with his shooting touch. He has that nice move to the baseline pulling up for his quick jumper from about 10 feet that I am waiting for.

One last comment about the last game. The female ref did another horrible job handling that game. She has sucked all season long in every game I have watched when she was working. I am not sure what her name is but Stan Van Gundy had enough and forced her to throw him out. I loved the fact that he made a statement calling her out for being a coward who was afraid to make the right call about 10 times in that game.

[Oracle]

@Cool(Don) - I totally agree about Blake, I can't for the life of me understand why he gets absolutely no PT, when it would appear to me that it's in the best interest of the team that he stay sharp, just in case! Having said that, my eyes see a better team under Jennings, and both SVG and the team sees the same, so they may just be trying to maximize Jennings PT to get him in shape and up to speed ASAP!

On the latter part of your post, it appears that we saw different games. The defense played when Jennings was in the game was the best defense played by the Pistons in recent memory. Even the announcers commented that while the 2nd unit wasn't scoring like crazy, they didn't allow the Pacers to score, and that's how they(the 2nd unit) built those leads!

Yes, KCP didn't score well during the 1st half, but as usual lately, he scores when we really need it, and this game was no exception! If you want to say he could do better, well, that applies to every single player in the league. I'm more than happy with the way this 2 year player is playing and progressing.

BTW, I saw the loss as a coaching loss! SVG can't sit on the sidelines and let one man beat you! one man can be stopped if you actually tried. Force somebody else to do it, just don't let George get any shot he wants!

@BallinD - Jennings is playing some interesting defense! He's not really capable of keeping guys in front of him, and he's subject to getting blown by, so he's adopted a different way to play!

Jennings plays a sort of shadow defense where he doesn't directly confront his cover, he plays off of them attempting to force them into the help defense. This is working for the most part, and I give a lot of props to SVG and staff for they way they're covering up his obvious defensive limitations.

Even with his limitations, Jennings is still crafty, as witnessed by that sweet steal he got!

You mentioned two important things in your post.

1. Getting back Meeks and the potential rise of Jennings should make for a very competitive stretch run, and
2. We may be one impact player away from being really dangerous!

That 2nd point is interesting because of the questions it raises

1. Is that impact player actually the return of both Meeks & Jennings, or even Jennings himself?
2. If we get that impact player, is he a bench player or a starter, and if a starter, the only position that wouldn't cause a major disruption is at PF!

This year is shaping up to be one of the most interesting in Piston Land in a long time!

[BallinD]

Overall, they have learned the following this year:

1. How to close out games

2. How to compete both offensively or defensively

3. How to fight through adversity (as a team)

Still learning

4. How to consistently play hard

5. How to play smart; exploit mismatches, move the ball.

@Oracle. Jennings seems to give more pace, more ball movement. He's not on his A game at all, offensively, not really looking comfortable going at people yet. Give it time. He is fighting hard on defense. Judging on the comments of teamates, they're excited to have him leading the second unit. Plus, it's obvious he can lead the first unit too.

Should be a good stretch run, once Meeks returns and Jennings regains his confidence.

We are one good impact piece from being sneaky good.

[cool breeze]

With Jennings in there, we clawed our way back into the game, but then Jennings had to leave, and they made one last run to finish us off!

Let me know if anybody else sees what I saw, this team really performs under Jennings from my perspective!

I disagree and might be the only Piston fan who believes that Blake brings a lot of positives to the second unit. When Jackson is struggling, Blake seemed to come in and get the offense flowing better. It is a shame to sit Blake when both Jackson and Jennings have issues defending. jackson twisted his ankle against the Pacers. He might not be at full speed for the next game. I am not down on Jennings. But we don't really know what we have yet because Jennings is a long way from being in actual game shape. When he gets in top game shape, we might have an explosive scorer which will really help this team.

Overall neither Jackson or Jennings were the cause of this last loss. KCP sucked big time. I believe he was scoreless again in the first half. It was not only Pope but it seemed that nobody could knock down shots consistently. Almost anyone would have beaten our Pistons in this last game and the 3 games before they played the Timberwolves.

[Phil-Good]

The Pistons have A lot of good parts. Good players. A top 5 Head coach. A star in Drummonds. But Paul George is A Super Star. And he put his foot in Detroit's azz.

Just took the victory away from our hands like taking candy from A baby. And George Hill is becoming A Piston killer as well. Not much else to say about this game.



Bench played well. I think Van Gundy pull Stanley Johnson too soon. Jennings also but it did not cost Detroit the game Paul George did that.

I was all for the Pistons going out and landing the Other Morris twin. Now I don't know about it anymore. Talent wise he would be A major upgrade. But i don't think Detroit can handle two Morris boys. They some fiery guys. But I do love they games. The boys can play some ball.

[Oracle]

With Jennings in there, we clawed our way back into the game, but then Jennings had to leave, and they made one last run to finish us off!

Let me know if anybody else sees what I saw, this team really performs under Jennings from my perspective!

[Oracle]

One thing is perfectly clear... when Jennings is on the floor, we play better on both ends of the court!

I can't quite put my finger on it, but the pace is quicker, the passes hit people just right, and I think the players play harder because they know that if they get to the right spot, Jennings will reward them!

Shockingly Jennings isn't even playing up to what he's capable of doing!

I'm not saying that Reggie is in trouble, but he damn better step up his floor generalship credentials before Jennings gets to full speed!

Hell, with Jennings in there I see that Baynes is even looking like a good center... damn!

Evidence?

1. Jennings comes in, team is down... team goes up on the pacers!
   
2. Jennings goes out, pacers go on a big run, pistons down
   
3. Jennings comes back in, pistons go on big run to lead by 1
   

[Phil-Good]

Make no mistake about it. Tonight game in Indiana is A very big game for the Pistons. The Pistons schedule is fill with good teams for the next several games. Detroit needs to win this game tonight and I consider this game one of the biggest games of the season so far

Go Detroit

[Go Stones!]

I believe Jennings is about 75% of what he was. His shot is not there...his passing timing is not there, but he is giving 100% and has a good attitude doing it. I think he will be a great offensive player for our second team. Add gunners like Stanimal, Baynes and Tolliver in the mix and you have a good 2nd team. I'm not convinced that Meeks is the missing player on that 2nd team. I'd rather keep KCP or Morris on the floor like SVG did so far this year.

Mark my words...Jennings will NOT be with the team after the trade deadline. He is progressing enough to put a trade in play. I doubt he will be with us next year either...but if no one else is interested, we could keep him for 8-9M/year. He has had history of attitude issues with the Bucks and that may have ruined him. Someone like Knicks or Lakers may make a run for him. I will also say that if there isn't anything to get for him, SVG will keep him so that we go deeper in the playoffs. He will not take a bad deal.

With Big Al Jefferson out for a long time, it appears the Hornets may be a sinking ship. It may depend when Gilcrest comes back too.

I'm also quite surprised that the Bucks are not better than their record. Wow.

The East is wide open...even the stacked Cavs team is not running away with it. I believe the Pacers and the Heat will drop...probably due to injury...or every other team just getting better. Boston is decent and only living by the success of their young players.

Meanwhile, we got back last year's starting PG who will man the 2nd team and we have a rookie who is excelling quite nicely. The rest of the team is still finding how to work as a team.

I still would love to exchange Bullock (2M x 2), Meeks (6.2M x 2), Tolliver (3M x 1), Anthony (2.5 x 2), Baynes (6.5M x 3) and Blake (2.1M x 1) for a starting PF and a better back-up center. This would gain us ~22.3M/year. Then after next year we will have Josh Smith's 14M off the cap books. We expect a huge increase in wage and cap next summer too.

Don't look now, but Ryan Anderson and Ervan Illy have the same 3pt %. They are essentially the same person. I may change my tone on obtaining an overpriced Ryan Anderson when Illy is there for 1/2 the price.

Illy (6th), Tolliver (9th) and Marcus Morris (12th) are doing a pretty good job amongst other PFs for 3pt%. The rest are all all-stars and overpaid. We got these guys on the cheap! Good job SVG. There are only two (Horford and Olynyk) centers that qualify for 3pt%.

What do you guys think of trading for Pau Gasol? He is 35, but can shoot at a high rate. We could give him a 2 year contract that would buy us time until we get the PF that we really want for long term. He is listed as Center...he played PF for Lakers. He could fill in for Dre when other teams use Hack-A-Dre. His salary is less than Jennings'.

[FlyDog]

It is nice to see that Jennings is back. Couldn't watch, but 7 points, 6 rebounds and 6 assists in 20 minutes says that he was a welcome addition to the bench.

[BallinD]

Good Win! SVG lit a fire and Drums warmed up. We go as he goes. When he's great, we're good. When he's avg, we're sorry.

Easy to see the effort on D too, across the board. Consistency and continuity. No trades till the deadline. Let's see what we got.

[Oracle]

I like what you have to say, and I'm shocked that Chandler makes so much!

What I forgot to post was that I want Chandler to replace Baynes, so I really want Baynes gone!

I think Chandler is the better defender, and he can't be any worse on offense, plus he's a true 7 footer.

Here's my thought on Jennings! If he comes anywhere near his old self, we won't be able or want to match what other teams are going to throw at him, so in my mind, Jennings is as good as gone!

The only remaining question is if we're going to get anything out of him leaving, and that means we HAVE to move him!

We're on the same page about reuniting the Twins, I don't think it's a good idea, but maybe it could be a 3 team trade to move him elsewhere!

IMO, moving Jennings and Baynes provides enough power to get us a big and hopefully a PF. But like you, if we could move anybody for a 1st round pick, I'm all over it, especially if they're near lottery!

BTW, watching the game, and Baynes singlehandedly lets teams back in with his putrid attempts to score!

Queif Morris = Jennings salary alone.  Chandler is actually 13+M/year for multiple years.  I wouldn't mind having Chandler for a backup center, however, I'm not going to pay him over 10M/year.  

I'm not in favor of 'quief Morris b/c I think the twins together would be bad news...not bad boys bad, but bad influence on each other.

SVG said in an interview that Jennings will be a starting PG in the NBA in the future.  That all but tells me that he will not be the starting PG for the Pistons in the future.  The question is whether we will trade him or keep him.  I believe a lot depends on what people are offering us.  If a big star goes down (Irving, Rose again, etc) I believe Jennings' name is on the top of that team's list. I wonder if we could get a first rounder for him?  Otherwise, I'd like a Marcus Morris-like contract/player that is a stretch forward or a back-up center.

Trades I would consider:

Jennings for a first round pick either next year or future 2-3 years.

Jennings (8M) AND Meeks (6.5x2) for Chandler (13x4) we can not pick up option on Anthony (2.5) and not resign Tolliver (3.0) next year, meanwhile the market goes up and Chandler as a back-up center/mentor to Dre/answer to hack-a-Dre is a good move.  We also save money this year in case we want another trade to happen where we take some extra expense.

Jennings for Ryan Anderson, but I don't see that Pelicans need a PG....maybe a 3-team deal?

Jennings for O'Quinn and Derrick Williams

Jennings and Meeks for Taj Gibson (off the bench with Baynes) and Mike Dunleavy (injured but would give stretch 4 and back-up SF with great 3pt %, team leadership and FT% and allows Chicago to build around key people next year)





Your thoughts?

[Go Stones!]

Queif Morris = Jennings salary alone. Chandler is actually 13+M/year for multiple years. I wouldn't mind having Chandler for a backup center, however, I'm not going to pay him over 10M/year.

I'm not in favor of 'quief Morris b/c I think the twins together would be bad news...not bad boys bad, but bad influence on each other.

SVG said in an interview that Jennings will be a starting PG in the NBA in the future. That all but tells me that he will not be the starting PG for the Pistons in the future. The question is whether we will trade him or keep him. I believe a lot depends on what people are offering us. If a big star goes down (Irving, Rose again, etc) I believe Jennings' name is on the top of that team's list. I wonder if we could get a first rounder for him? Otherwise, I'd like a Marcus Morris-like contract/player that is a stretch forward or a back-up center.

Trades I would consider:

Jennings for a first round pick either next year or future 2-3 years.

Jennings (8M) AND Meeks (6.5x2) for Chandler (13x4) we can not pick up option on Anthony (2.5) and not resign Tolliver (3.0) next year, meanwhile the market goes up and Chandler as a back-up center/mentor to Dre/answer to hack-a-Dre is a good move. We also save money this year in case we want another trade to happen where we take some extra expense.

Jennings for Ryan Anderson, but I don't see that Pelicans need a PG....maybe a 3-team deal?

Jennings for O'Quinn and Derrick Williams

Jennings and Meeks for Taj Gibson (off the bench with Baynes) and Mike Dunleavy (injured but would give stretch 4 and back-up SF with great 3pt %, team leadership and FT% and allows Chicago to build around key people next year)





Your thoughts?

[FlyDog]

Losing to the Knicks sucks rhino balls. I think we're a tired team, having played the most games in the NBA to this point. We'll get our 2nd wind. Stanley will continue to get better........Jennings will work his way into shape.

We're just a couple games back of the 4th spot in the East. And if we don't make the playoffs (At this point, I think we will)........so what. Maybe we win the lottery?

Very happy to be sitting at 17-15 at this point.

[Oracle]

We know the Knicks are interested in Jennings, but they can't really give us anyone of value!

However, there is another partner that may be more interesting... Phoenix!

With Eric Bledsoe out for the season, could we pry Morris & Chandler away from them? No, I didn't look in the trade machine, but off the cuff, I think those two could be had for Jennings, and maybe they'll take Bullock back  .

Morris has to go, and they know it, and they play much better when Chandler is off the floor than when he's on! IMO, they don't know how to use defensive players, but we do!

Just a thought before hitting the sack!!!

[Oracle]

From the Department of For What It's Worth
For the first time in nearly a decade being .500 in the Eastern Conference means a bit more.  
-  Breakeven will likely not be good enough to make the playoffs.
-  Breakeven in the EC makes us better than a poop load of WC teams.
-  The road is a little steeper now.

Half Empty or Half Full
Much of what you guys say about our weaknesses is on point, but....
-  Is it a good thing or bad thing to have a center good enough to command a double or triple team to stop.
-  Is it a good thing or bad thing to have a PG good enough to command constant defensive attention.
-  Is it a good thing or bad thing to have a team good enough to require game planning by the opponent.
The league is ADJUSTING to our strengths, thus pressuring our weaknesses.  It's Stans move.

What's Next ???
Do we wait and allow the youth another year of development / incremental improvement.
Do we jettison some of the youth for an established name.
How many players are we away from a top 4 EC playoff spot.
How do we wring more out of this roster. Many good questions here! Dare I say a combination of a few of them is what happens?

IMO Coach SVG should become more like Cola by calling plays from the sideline.  Our offensive structure has become way too Reggie-centric and very undisciplined.  We don't create or exploit positional mismatches.  We don't create or ride a hot hand.  We have no off ball movement. Don't get me wrong, Reggie is great, but he doesn't have great court vision on a regular basis. Nothing wrong with him being a shoot first guard getting converted to a floor general, but he isn't there yet! SVG doing some LIMITED play calling is a fantastic idea, and takes the pressure off of Reggie to do it all!

GM SVG has been quiet for a while.  This team needs more talent if this is to be a playoff year.   This is the only part I don't fully agree with! I'm not sure if we have enough talent or not, mainly because the talent we have, hasn't played together long enough to get the chemistry effect! They won't get it until they start moving the ball and finding out where mates need to get fed!

SVG is currently the issue from my perspective! The players have a responsibility, but as you pointed out, an adjustment has to be made on their bread and butter play, other coaches have SVG's number.

In all sports, you run the same damn play until they figure out how to stop it, but when they do, you better have another play or you're doomed! That's why your comment that "It's Stan's move" is so right on! It's easy to point to the players and cast all of the blame, but when you take a better look, as you did, you see a bigger picture!

As I mentioned to Don, we need that 3rd star to either emerge or get brought in. We have possibilities, but SVG will need to figure out if we have the time to wait or if he has to do something quicker!

Either way, it's bad to react to minor ups and downs with moves, and I don't expect SVG to do that unless something he can't refuse comes across his desk! Also a disruption in the closeness of the core group could send the wrong message, it's really tricky!

[Oracle]

You don't disagree with me, you disagree with the facts! When the starters outscore the opposing starters, by definition they win that matchup, unless holding your opponent to lower scoring is bad defense! I do know it's a bit more complicated, but this margin is pretty high, even with Carmelo going off a bit!

While your analysis of KCP is a bit harsh, I won't call you on it because a lot of what you said is valid, so I'll just provide this information!

On this, like any successful team, your stars have to be defined by delivering consistent performances from game to game. Your role players go up and down, and your hope is that one of them steps up when the others are down.

We have two stars in Drummond & Reggie, the others are good role players, so while I wish we had that third star, we don't yet, but this group is good enough that on any given night one or two of the other starters will step up on a consistent basis!

Afflalo isn't hardly ever held to 9 points, so KCP wasn't just sleeping on defense. his offense suffered, but Ilyasova & Morris stepped up, which gave the starters the advantage.

We do need that 3rd star, either in the starting lineup or coming off the bench, and I believe that we have two or more possibilities if we can wait on them to get there in Jennings and Johnson! Interestingly, they're dependent on each other! If Jennings gets it going, and I can 98% guarantee his floor general ability is there(if not his shot & defense), Johnson is the primary beneficiary. Also, I don't rule out either KCP or Morris, both of whom are growing into new responsibilities!

BTW, I too was in favor of playing both Jennings & Blake!

But one thing is clear, they came out of the gate as defensive DEMONS, only to turn into defensive pu$$ies now

[lemonpen]

From the Department of For What It's Worth
For the first time in nearly a decade being .500 in the Eastern Conference means a bit more.
- Breakeven will likely not be good enough to make the playoffs.
- Breakeven in the EC makes us better than a poop load of WC teams.
- The road is a little steeper now.

Half Empty or Half Full
Much of what you guys say about our weaknesses is on point, but....
- Is it a good thing or bad thing to have a center good enough to command a double or triple team to stop.
- Is it a good thing or bad thing to have a PG good enough to command constant defensive attention.
- Is it a good thing or bad thing to have a team good enough to require game planning by the opponent.
The league is ADJUSTING to our strengths, thus pressuring our weaknesses. It's Stans move.

What's Next ???
Do we wait and allow the youth another year of development / incremental improvement.
Do we jettison some of the youth for an established name.
How many players are we away from a top 4 EC playoff spot.
How do we wring more out of this roster.

IMO Coach SVG should become more like Cola by calling plays from the sideline. Our offensive structure has become way too Reggie-centric and very undisciplined. We don't create or exploit positional mismatches. We don't create or ride a hot hand. We have no off ball movement.

GM SVG has been quiet for a while. This team needs more talent if this is to be a playoff year.

[lemonpen]

Dang Cool. You in panic mode already?

The Pistons are A .500 team. They going to W.W.W. L.W.L.W.W.L.L. L. This team is what it is.

I would not call anything about this Pistons team "dysfunction" For the most part, these guys seem to like each other. You can tell they all want to win. It's going to take time and some upgrades at the PF,SG and bench personnel positions. Reggie, Drummonds, S.Johnson, Hillard and KCP all need to get better. And they will.

Great Post !!!!!!!
Forum consensus has us finishing around .500, but we've been bad for so long I think we have forgotten exactly what that means in terms of day to day performance.

[Phil-Good]

Dang Cool. You in panic mode already?

The Pistons are A .500 team. They going to W.W.W. L.W.L.W.W.L.L. L. This team is what it is.

I would not call anything about this Pistons team "dysfunction" For the most part, these guys seem to like each other. You can tell they all want to win. It's going to take time and some upgrades at the PF,SG and bench personnel positions. Reggie, Drummonds, S.Johnson, Hillard and KCP all need to get better. And they will.

[cool breeze]

Pope is averaging 37.8 minutes per game. What is his impact in a typical game. He has played well in the 4th quarter of games and has looked horrible in the first half of games this season. He is shooting under 400% from the field and is around 300% from the 3 point line. He is often out of control when driving into the lane and is prone to turnovers and still is not a really good ball handler. I like Pope's potential but he is not ready to play 37 plus minutes a game if the team expects to make the playoffs this season. I say reduce his minutes and he will produce more and make fewer mistakes. We would also get to see other players fill that 2 guard role and we have other players who can be productive if given the chance. I think that Van Gundy knows he needs to make this change for the good of the team.

[Phil-Good]

I would have love to see more effort and killer attitude from Reggie Tonight. A lot of bull s.h.i.t.i.n.g around with the basketball tonight. That usually equals A loss for Detroit.

The bench lost the match-up but they actually did not play bad. They just were off tonight.

Good to see Jennings back in the fold. He looking A little chunky but give him time and he will slim down in no time.

[cool breeze]

I almost got hit in the face when the sh!t hit the fan in that locker room!

It's not KCP, he played Afflalo to a draw, and Afflalo used to own him!

It's not Morris, he competed with Carmelo about as good as you can!

It wasn't Ilyasova, he was team high scorer and won his matchup!

It wasn't Reggie, he won his matchup hands down, powered by 9 assists!

That leaves only three other possible culprits...

1. The Bench: They got their collective asses kicked, highlighted by Baynes being damn near invisible!
2. Drummond: Where the f**k has his game gone? He just isn't asserting himself like he did out of the gate!!!
3. SVG: Partially out coached!

Maybe Drummond needs to pull a Monroe and fake an injury to get some rest, because his effort looks like sh!t, and the results are showing it!

Then there's SVG! When is he going to deploy his big lineup against teams trying to stop Drummond by going big??? Here's the Knicks!

“I think he did an amazing job.  I think he has (Andre Drummond) had five games with 20-20 (points and rebounds).  That was a big part of the game plan…throwing two or three bodies at him, get him frustrated and close out to the shooters.” - Post game quote

They deploy 2, count them, 2 7 foot plus dudes on Drummond, but they're both light in the ass, so if we ran Drummond & Baynes at them, they can't move them on defense, and on offense, we should be backing these chumps down all night long!

No, we don't do that all game long, but we need some good stretches of it to punish them and make those legs get weak in the 4th!

Defense: Well, our starters came out well, scoring 75 points to NY's starters scoring 69 points! WTF else are they supposed to do, shut them out??? They won the matchup!

I have no earthly reasoning that explains why Steve Blake got absolutely no burn, and he's one of the better 3 point shooters on the 2nd unit!

Is this panic time? Hell no, and it's not time to call out teammates too hard! It's not like the team is falling apart, but some adjustments need to be made! BTW, Jennings needs time, and the process has to take its course, it can't be made to go any faster than it takes... we just need patience!

Sorry Oracle I cannot agree with your analysis of this game. You are right about Baynes playing a sub par game. Derek Williams made both the starters and bench players look like children. That is Williams game and he is finally getting the opportunity to show it.

The starting group is dysfunctional as a unit on both ends of the floor.

Pope didn't play Affalo to a draw. Affalo didn't make any mistakes or unforced mental errors like Pope made. Pope's lack of input in the offense during the first half of this game was exactly like his lack of input in the previous game. It appears that Pope has no idea what his role is within the offense. He has not figured out how to get open or how to get his shot within the offense. The result is zero production from the 2 guard spot and any NBA team will lose with zero production from your starting 2 guard for an entire half of a ball game. Pope is playing way too many minutes per game. He is not a great defender by any means because he now gambles more than ever instead of staying in front of his man. This wasn't as noticeable last night but in the last 10 games before this game, Pope has allowed his man to penetrate in the paint at will. And Pope is a dancer on offense who runs around with no thought in his mind as to what he needs to do to become a better offensive threat. Pope is still learning. He is young but this guy has had more than his share of minutes that he hasn't earned. Other players need to take his minutes in the first half of games.

Morris is a tough player but I am still not sure he is a really good player for the future. He forced a lot of bad shots in the 2nd half last night. How does he stack up with other really good small forwards in the NBA. He is OK but not outstanding and last night Anthony was a far superior player. Morris is a great addition to this Piston team but is he also playing too many minutes when he is not playing well? One defect relating to Morris is his tendency to hang on to the basketball and get his shot instead of moving the basketball and reseting to get the pass back. Too many other Piston players are doing this same thing as well.

This starting group seems to have no thought in mind as to how to get a good shot when they need it. Jackson is amazing and too much pressure is on him to score because there is so little movement on the part of his teammates. And it is insane to keep forcing the pick and roll play with Drummond when the entire defense is set up to stop that play. Drummond is not a finished product for sure. Without other players getting involved in the offense, the pick and roll play is doomed.

Another breakdown has been creeping in now for the past 10 ball games. Where is the defensive rebounding coming from on this team? I see no box outs by Drummond or whoever is playing the power forward position. The small forward and guards must get involved in board work. We have one player in Drummond who is trying to get all the defensive rebounds and he is still not fundamentally sound because he doesn't move his feet or use his mind to anticipate and block out the opposing center in the paint. The big men are also unable to figure out defensive rotations or react quickly enough to block more shots in the paint. Tolliver is not big enough to defend or rebound against many NBA power forwards. If he doesn't produce points with his outside shot, Tolliver is a liability. Come on Anthony start making more shots.

The Pistons are on a losing streak and it is no fluke that this is happening. Opposing teams now have good game plans to stop the Piston dysfunctional offense. On every Piston loss lately, I say to myself that this Piston team is in big trouble. Opposing teams that are beating our guys seem to be stronger, smarter, shoot the ball better and play better as a team. Opposing teams move the ball from side to side better and players move without the ball and work harder to set screens for their teammates. And opposing teams are playing much stronger and smarter on the defensive end.

Jennings looked pretty good for the most part in his first game back. I would like to see both Jennings and Blake playing together as the two guards with Johnson at the 3 to see how this might work. Blake is always in motion and and so is Jennings and Johnson. The 2nd unit was used to Blake running the point and playing defense so last night was another new thing for the 2nd unit which might have had something to do with their lack of production.

I am sure that Stan Van Gundy is seeing that the players he has counted on to out play the competition are showing that they are inferior to the competition right now. If the losing continues, Stan will have to do something to get the team back on a winning course. Every team goes through tough times. Our Piston players are playing hard which is refreshing but to win consistently in the NBA you have to have really good players. The Pistons are still building a team and all the pieces have not yet arrived. Detroit will be in a dog fight to make the playoffs.

[Oracle]

I almost got hit in the face when the sh!t hit the fan in that locker room!

It's not KCP, he played Afflalo to a draw, and Afflalo used to own him!

It's not Morris, he competed with Carmelo about as good as you can!

It wasn't Ilyasova, he was team high scorer and won his matchup!

It wasn't Reggie, he won his matchup hands down, powered by 9 assists!

That leaves only three other possible culprits...

1. The Bench: They got their collective asses kicked, highlighted by Baynes being damn near invisible!
2. Drummond: Where the f**k has his game gone? He just isn't asserting himself like he did out of the gate!!!
3. SVG: Partially out coached!

Maybe Drummond needs to pull a Monroe and fake an injury to get some rest, because his effort looks like sh!t, and the results are showing it!

Then there's SVG! When is he going to deploy his big lineup against teams trying to stop Drummond by going big??? Here's the Knicks!

“I think he did an amazing job.  I think he has (Andre Drummond) had five games with 20-20 (points and rebounds).  That was a big part of the game plan…throwing two or three bodies at him, get him frustrated and close out to the shooters.” - Post game quote

They deploy 2, count them, 2 7 foot plus dudes on Drummond, but they're both light in the ass, so if we ran Drummond & Baynes at them, they can't move them on defense, and on offense, we should be backing these chumps down all night long!

No, we don't do that all game long, but we need some good stretches of it to punish them and make those legs get weak in the 4th!

Defense: Well, our starters came out well, scoring 75 points to NY's starters scoring 69 points! WTF else are they supposed to do, shut them out??? They won the matchup!

I have no earthly reasoning that explains why Steve Blake got absolutely no burn, and he's one of the better 3 point shooters on the 2nd unit!

Is this panic time? Hell no, and it's not time to call out teammates too hard! It's not like the team is falling apart, but some adjustments need to be made! BTW, Jennings needs time, and the process has to take its course, it can't be made to go any faster than it takes... we just need patience!

[Sissy1946]

What? Effort? Reggie was hopping mad & said even if the starters didn't want to give any effort then they can Get Out, same goes with everyone, Stan wasn't happy either, he said no defense in any of the 4 quarters, hogging the ball, not passing the ball, everyone playing for themselves.
Tell ya one thing, this starting line up needs to be adjusted & their looking at it right now which I think is great, it's boring! So what do we do because these last three games are a telling tale, this team with the way their playing aren't going to any playoffs playing like this anytime soon, I'm thinking the right players aren't playing with the right players, so what do we do, do we put KCP on the 2nd unit just because he disappears from offense some games?
We do need his defense, do we bring in Stanley Johnson for him for a while? How about Illyasova going to the 2nd unit or Morris or bring in Jennings to run with Reggie, that one I like, think it would really be exciting but.....
I can't wait till Stan the GM has a heart to heart talk with Stan the GM soon, I can't wait to see who the ones that aren't making an effort are, will they expose them, will they make changes?
Reggie wasn't happy when he was interviewed & looked around the locker room acting as if he didn't care who knew it but there are s few not giving the right effort, to me that's a leader so like I said, the $chitt is going to hit the fan & guarantee a win against Minnesota on New Years Eve if they get to the bottom of this, this team shouldn't be losing like this, if they find out who not making an effort then we have to jettison them promptly. Get it together Stan before they start looking at you.

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