Re: FORUM

[Murph]

Yes...JR Smith has a BB IQ even lower than his playoff shooting percentage.


The only upside I can see to hiring a slimeball like Arm Tellen is that he might relieve SVG and his sidekick Jeff Bow-wow of their GM duties.

[Phil-Good]

And I thought Josh Smith was A dumb azz basketball player. J.R. Smith almost handed the game to G.State with A dumb azz smile on his face....


Basketball IQ is so important. It goes hand and hand with talent.

Again, my draft choice would be the sharp shooter out of Kentucky. Devin Booker That's my top choice......

[deusXango]

Curry's human, "in the toilet" game is behind him, so what will the games in Cleveland be like? I knew it wouldn't be a sweep.

How is Jeff Van Gundy doing the color commentary for the Finals? I'm certain that if ABC really tried, they could've come up with someone worse, but why try? This guy kills the spirit of the game with his so-called insights.

It's been 2 games now and I haven't seen anything from Harrison Barnes that'd make him worth our #8 pick! For those talking about Kaminsky's low ceiling, and Johnson's 6' 6" height (I don't know what that translates to in their minds) being poor prospects for the Pistons, I say "wake up!!!"

In dreamland, where I work out my master plans to put the Pistons back on the map, I find it compelling to think LaMarcus Aldridge could sign with us! If SVG has a guarantee from his "employee," Arn Tellum, that Aldridge will be guided to the "D," Stanley Johnson is the ideal pick for us. That'd make letting Monroe walk and cutting ties with Butler a forgone conclusion.

Watching Draymond play PF for the Warriors makes me real curious to see what Johnson would look like playing SF for us; put him on the floor with Drummond and a legit PF and I'm willing to bet the farm Pistons fans would be pleased.

[merc]

Arn's perspective...
Why Now?

[merc]

This Tellem thing is interesting... so he's going from trying to make management to part with their cash to representing the team in some capacity... will he deal directly with agents? (hold the BS please)... does he know some of their confidential discussions with clients and their preference of teams?
His current client list includes Draymond & Aldridge, Marc Gasol, B. Lopez, Horford... nice connections indeed.
Most importantly does Arnie report to Arn?

[Sebastian]

Yo, Oracle, thanks for passing on the progressive news about Quincy Miller. This is great news.

When Drummond checked in at the team's practice facility this week, he heard from the assistant coaches and strength training staffers about the eye-opening transformation Quincy Miller has made since season's end.

"Man, that kid – he put on 16 pounds of muscle," Drummond said. "He looks so good. He's going to be a big part of our team, too. He's been in the gym every day, taking his workouts seriously, eating well. The coaching staff is excited. I talked to the weight coaches about him, too. They said he comes in with a mindset that he wants to be a part of this team and really wants to work, so I'm really happy for him."

"He looks great," Van Gundy said of Miller. "He's really been working hard." - From coast to coast, Pistons young core putting in a busy, productive off-season

[Oracle]

After further reading, his role has become somewhat clearer, but not completely clear.

Wasserman Media Group's Arn Tellem, one of the most powerful and prominent player agents in the history of the NBA, is finalizing an agreement to become vice chairman of Palace Sports and Entertainment, the company that owns the Detroit Pistons, league sources told Yahoo Sports.
Tellem will answer directly to billionaire owner Tom Gores, but will not become the ultimate authority on the Pistons' basketball decisions, sources said. That responsibility will remain with president and coach Stan Van Gundy, who signed a five-year, $35 million deal a year ago.

Wojnarowski added that Tellum "will largely become the Pistons' ownership face in Michigan" with Gores focusing on his primary, non-basketball business. At this point, Van Gundy and general manager Jeff Bower run the Pistons' front office and basketball operations. However, don't expect Tellum to simply stand on the side silently, which makes for a very interesting dynamic considering the deal Van Gundy signed just last year.

The two things highlighted were the key for me, but how it will all work is still a mystery!

Tellem will become Gores for all intents and purposes, and if you think he won't, at some point, be in charge of SVG, I've got a bridge to sell!

Gores is, for likely good reasons, putting some distance between him and SVG, so we'll have to see how that works. The good news is that Tellem went to UM Law School, so he does have some Michigan ties!

[Oracle]

@Murph - If you go back and look at the game, the players you said couldn't make shots were shooting lights out, i.e. they weren't missing and hitting tough shots. The ball hogging by LeBron & Irving came FIRST, not after they started missing.

Need some evidence? What happened just before halftime, and what were their stats then. Smith hit a HUGE shot to put the Cavs ahead! However, the ball hogging started in the 2nd quarter and got progressively worse.

@Lemonpen - This Arn Tellem hire is WAY above my knowledge of the game, I can't figure out why they would do this! In fact, I can't see why HE wants to do this, it's all really confusing to me. I'm sure this is costing the organization a fortune, but where's the payoff? As I said, I don't get it, but it sure got the press and the NBA buzzing!

[lemonpen]

Having dealt closely with all sort of players over a long period I wonder if Arn Tellem will have a better understanding and feel for guys character, work ethic, and desire to be in the game. He has had to look at players / clients from a different perspective than a GM or coach and maybe has more often seen the unfiltered man.
I think Tellum could be a valuable resource for evaluating draft prospects, free agents and our own roster.

[Murph]

I thought the problem was all the Cavs other outside shooters were terrible last night. Shumpert was 2-6, and Smith was 3-13 and took some atrocious shots. I'm sure that was on Lebron's and Iving's minds when they started hogging the ball. This is were the Cavs really begin to miss Kevin Love and his outside shooting.

[Oracle]

I was totally shocked how he blew this game, they played totally out of character.

Was it because Irving was back, I'm not sure, but LeBron's play caused this loss in a subtle way.

He has balanced his play throughout the playoffs between scoring and distributing. They started out game doing just that, distributing the ball and players moving.

Then something happened... LeBron decided to go ISO all over the damn place. With him and Irving trying to show off their personal skills, the guys that they needed to knock down shots were totally frozen out and lost their rhythm!

It's sad because the difference makers on that team are the role players! LeBron & Irving can't beat a good team by themselves, but they thought they could, and almost did, but in the 4th & OT, the role players, after being frozen out for 2 quarters, just couldn't hit crap!

They better change this mode of operation damn quick, or they're going to get beat or even swept!

[Oracle]

When Drummond checked in at the team's practice facility this week, he heard from the assistant coaches and strength training staffers about the eye-opening transformation Quincy Miller has made since season's end.

"Man, that kid – he put on 16 pounds of muscle," Drummond said. "He looks so good. He's going to be a big part of our team, too. He's been in the gym every day, taking his workouts seriously, eating well. The coaching staff is excited. I talked to the weight coaches about him, too. They said he comes in with a mindset that he wants to be a part of this team and really wants to work, so I'm really happy for him."

"He looks great," Van Gundy said of Miller. "He's really been working hard." - From coast to coast, Pistons young core putting in a busy, productive off-season

[Oracle]

My name is Stanley J. Johnson Jr.  You can call me Stanley or Stan the man.  You can call me Stanshizzel or Stanislaw or Stanareeno.  You can call me SJ or SJJ or Stan J.  You can call me Junior or Junie. You can call me Stan Jr.  or John Jr.  You can call me S John or Stanjo or JJ or J, but you don't has to call me Johnson.

You can say I'm 6'11" of 7'11.  You can say I'm 7'12" or 6'12", but you don't has to say I'm 6'6".
You know my name.  You can look up the number.

You left of Stanky Johnson... but only his jock sniffers know for sure

[Fennis Dembo]

My name is Stanley J. Johnson Jr.  You can call me Stanley or Stan the man.  You can call me Stanshizzel or Stanislaw or Stanareeno.  You can call me SJ or SJJ or Stan J.  You can call me Junior or Junie. You can call me Stan Jr.  or John Jr.  You can call me S John or Stanjo or JJ or J, but you don't has to call me Johnson.

You can say I'm 6'11" of 7'11.  You can say I'm 7'12" or 6'12", but you don't has to say I'm 6'6".
You know my name.  You can look up the number.

[Phil-Good]

This is my theory in Euro players. I will not draft A euro player if he has only played in the Euro league and he is only 18 or 19 years old. No Way. I need to see my Euro guy compete vs US competition on A regular basis.

These two current Euro guys might be great. They might be the next great Euro players but so was Jan Vesely # 6 selection by the Wizards and on and on. When was the last time A euro player was selected high in the draft and amounted to anything?

There has been A lot of good second round and low first round picks but no impact player has been selected in the top 14 in Over 10 years that did anything special.


PASS!!!!!

Give me A good old, American or International player with experience and has been working out in America for 12 plus months.

[cool breeze]

There's three things about Stanley Johnson that makes him a small risk.

1. His big frame WILL cause a lot of problems! As he matures, he'll effectively be able to play bully ball, and if he develops a good midrange shot, fear of being punished down low will leave him open more often.
   
2. I've been pleasantly surprised by how many sources have backed up what Don said about this kids work ethic! He's a gym rat in the mold of Afflalo, very committed to being the best he can be.
   
3. Finally, the personal connection to Drummond & KCP! Rarely in my experience does a player fail to put forth even more effort around players that they respect(see Josh & DHo).
   

I still favor going big, but if we go small, I would take Johnson over Winslow, even though he's got a lot more hype and visibility!

My biggest fear is that if one of those Euro's are there at #8, that SVG will take them. While they both have upside, the risk on either is so high that it wouldn't be a smart move, IMO! Unfortunately the hype is very high on these guys right now!

Nope.  I never said Stanley Johnson will be as good as any of those guys.  I said that I don't care if he's only 6'6, because there are a lot of undersized forwards in the HOF.  If a SF is good enough and strong enough, it will make up for any shortcomings in stature.

OTOH... you said, "You know why I hate Moose so much? Because he's just a big as Moses, Lanier and should be able to dominate a game in the same manner these cats did..."


One thing we do agree on is that it was insane for Stan the Man to dump Josh Smith, and eat his salary, even after he knew Monroe was bolting at the end of the season.  Now we have to pay $14 million a year to a PF not even on the roster, and spend another...what?...$10 million a year for a replacement who won't be as good as Smith.  

I have no doubt that in the end, Johnson is going to be one of the top 3 players after getting settled in the NBA. To me, all of the other players mentioned as potential picks will be a huge gamble.

As for Smith, I am happy for him but do not have any regrets that he is no longer part of the Pistons team. This season was no different from the past 6 or 6 seasons. Smith made no difference most likely because he is not a guy who can lead a team when the team has too many average to below average players. Smith played well because he plays with Dwight Howard. He looked alert and focused in the playoffs unlike any of the games he played in a Piston uniform.

Oracle it is clear that Piston management is really worried about the power forward position. Yet Stan says that he will draft according to who he feels is the best player available. If that is true than Stanley Johnson is the easy choice. Johnson has one clear advantage over the two foreign players who are getting a lot of hype. Stanley can guard both the 2 and 3 as well as some power forwards. He is a solid defender unlike the two foreign prospects who are both horrible defenders who both have zero history of playing with any energy on the defensive send in Euro ball competition. Who doesn't believe that players have to give more on the defensive end in the college game than the Euro game? Neither foreign player has developed their body well enough to play against NBA players. Therefore, Stan Van Gundy will be making a huge gamble that either foreign player will ever be a factor on the Piston's team. It always seems that more attention is giving to foreign players who few people really know much about. It is exciting - a mystery selection and that was how Joe Dumars made that big mistake when he took Darko. If the Pistons had a respectable team which they don't, then one could gamble on one of those Euro guys making their mark in two or three years. But right now most people agree that Stanley Johnson can make a rotation in the NBA based only on his defensive ability alone. But this guy is going to be a scorer in the league as well. If Stan passes on him, I will scream but I still have my doubts that Johnson will last past the 5th or 6th pick. I sure believe he is much better than Winslow.

[lemonpen]

I don't have a favorite in the draft this year and just hope that whomever is selected actually can help the team.  We have a couple of glaring needs that won't be addressed in a single draft pick so I really don't care how SVG gets thing done as long as he does be it trade, free agency or the draft.  It's clear that a combination of all three will be required to get things corrected.  

GM Stan needs to pull off a HAT TRICK.

[WTF]

I don't have a favorite in the draft this year and just hope that whomever is selected actually can help the team. We have a couple of glaring needs that won't be addressed in a single draft pick so I really don't care how SVG gets thing done as long as he does be it trade, free agency or the draft. It's clear that a combination of all three will be required to get things corrected.

[Oracle]

There's three things about Stanley Johnson that makes him a small risk.

1. His big frame WILL cause a lot of problems! As he matures, he'll effectively be able to play bully ball, and if he develops a good midrange shot, fear of being punished down low will leave him open more often.
   
2. I've been pleasantly surprised by how many sources have backed up what Don said about this kids work ethic! He's a gym rat in the mold of Afflalo, very committed to being the best he can be.
   
3. Finally, the personal connection to Drummond & KCP! Rarely in my experience does a player fail to put forth even more effort around players that they respect(see Josh & DHo).
   

I still favor going big, but if we go small, I would take Johnson over Winslow, even though he's got a lot more hype and visibility!

My biggest fear is that if one of those Euro's are there at #8, that SVG will take them. While they both have upside, the risk on either is so high that it wouldn't be a smart move, IMO! Unfortunately the hype is very high on these guys right now!

Nope.  I never said Stanley Johnson will be as good as any of those guys.  I said that I don't care if he's only 6'6, because there are a lot of undersized forwards in the HOF.  If a SF is good enough and strong enough, it will make up for any shortcomings in stature.

OTOH... you said, "You know why I hate Moose so much? Because he's just a big as Moses, Lanier and should be able to dominate a game in the same manner these cats did..."


One thing we do agree on is that it was insane for Stan the Man to dump Josh Smith, and eat his salary, even after he knew Monroe was bolting at the end of the season.  Now we have to pay $14 million a year to a PF not even on the roster, and spend another...what?...$10 million a year for a replacement who won't be as good as Smith.  

I have no doubt that in the end, Johnson is going to be one of the top 3 players after getting settled in the NBA. To me, all of the other players mentioned as potential picks will be a huge gamble.

As for Smith, I am happy for him but do not have any regrets that he is no longer part of the Pistons team. This season was no different from the past 6 or 6 seasons. Smith made no difference most likely because he is not a guy who can lead a team when the team has too many average to below average players. Smith played well because he plays with Dwight Howard. He looked alert and focused in the playoffs unlike any of the games he played in a Piston uniform.

[cool breeze]

Nope.  I never said Stanley Johnson will be as good as any of those guys.  I said that I don't care if he's only 6'6, because there are a lot of undersized forwards in the HOF.  If a SF is good enough and strong enough, it will make up for any shortcomings in stature.

OTOH... you said, "You know why I hate Moose so much? Because he's just a big as Moses, Lanier and should be able to dominate a game in the same manner these cats did..."


One thing we do agree on is that it was insane for Stan the Man to dump Josh Smith, and eat his salary, even after he knew Monroe was bolting at the end of the season.  Now we have to pay $14 million a year to a PF not even on the roster, and spend another...what?...$10 million a year for a replacement who won't be as good as Smith.  

I have no doubt that in the end, Johnson is going to be one of the top 3 players after getting settled in the NBA. To me, all of the other players mentioned as potential picks will be a huge gamble.

As for Smith, I am happy for him but do not have any regrets that he is no longer part of the Pistons team. This season was no different from the past 6 or 6 seasons. Smith made no difference most likely because he is not a guy who can lead a team when the team has too many average to below average players. Smith played well because he plays with Dwight Howard. He looked alert and focused in the playoffs unlike any of the games he played in a Piston uniform.

[WTF]

I agree that Monroe needs to develop of 12-15 foot mid-range jump shot.  If he developed a mid-rang shot, he'd be lethal on the offensive end.  But I'm not sure that's due to lack of effort.  He could also improve his defense.

But night after night, I watched Moose taking the ball inside, getting hacked and shoved, and beaten up, and drawing fouls...with the sweat pouring off of him, and I just can't believe the guy is lazy or timid.  

What I saw night end and night out was a player that went up softly and whined at the slightest contact, I also saw a guy that shied away from clutch moments and fumbling the ball away when pressured. Anyone can sweat hell even Charlie sweats but that doesn't mean he's giving great effort, it just means its hot more time than not.

The reason IMO that you can tell that Moose is lazy and give little to no effort is that his game really hasn't progressed on either end of the ball. One of the arguments I use to make like three season ago was that Moose has peaked and reach his max and he will never be more than what he is currently on either end. Moose stats should be considerably higher than what they are and a lot of the reason they're not are self inflicted reasons.

Bless Drummond's heart for all the talk of being a leader all last summer but that's something we should've been hearing from Moose which is another tell tale sign about effort because it comes with responsibilities like effort and working hard on and off the court. Don't get me wrong if we were talking about giving this guy 10 million a season I might be on board with keeping him maybe and that's a big maybe. IMO max money means max effort and this cat isn't a lion but a pussy. Lets not act as if he's at the FT line 16 times a game because he's working his ass off in the paint another reason he's a turd is that I've seen players with far less talent and skills dominate him more times than not also.

If Moose was a boxer his effort would be equivalent to fake punches and taken a dive. I have always said his stats are the must meaningless stats I've seen on a team. He plays for stats and contracts and not wins.

[Murph]

I agree that Monroe needs to develop of 12-15 foot mid-range jump shot. If he developed a mid-rang shot, he'd be lethal on the offensive end. But I'm not sure that's due to lack of effort. He could also improve his defense.

But night after night, I watched Moose taking the ball inside, getting hacked and shoved, and beaten up, and drawing fouls...with the sweat pouring off of him, and I just can't believe the guy is lazy or timid.

[WTF]

Nope.  I never said Stanley Johnson will be as good as any of those guys.  I said that I don't care if he's only 6'6, because there are a lot of undersized forwards in the HOF.  If a SF is good enough and strong enough, it will make up for any shortcomings in stature.

OTOH... you said, "You know why I hate Moose so much? Because he's just a big as Moses, Lanier and should be able to dominate a game in the same manner these cats did..."


One thing we do agree on is that it was insane for Stan the Man to dump Josh Smith, and eat his salary, even after he knew Monroe was bolting at the end of the season.  Now we have to pay $14 million a year to a PF not even on the roster, and spend another...what?...$10 million a year for a replacement who won't be as good as Smith.  

You kind of applied it Murph by just mentioning them

I'll admit that perhaps I shouldn't have just stopped at the word big and added with his potential and some real effort and commitment Moose should be as good as Moses and Lanier Is that better.

[Murph]

Nope. I never said Stanley Johnson will be as good as any of those guys. I said that I don't care if he's only 6'6, because there are a lot of undersized forwards in the HOF. If a SF is good enough and strong enough, it will make up for any shortcomings in stature.

OTOH... you said, "You know why I hate Moose so much? Because he's just a big as Moses, Lanier and should be able to dominate a game in the same manner these cats did..."


One thing we do agree on is that it was insane for Stan the Man to dump Josh Smith, and eat his salary, even after he knew Monroe was bolting at the end of the season. Now we have to pay $14 million a year to a PF not even on the roster, and spend another...what?...$10 million a year for a replacement who won't be as good as Smith.

[WTF]

I don't care if Stanley Johnson is only 6'6.  He'll still be the best option available to us at #8.  

If I recall, Adrian Dantley was 6'4, Charles Barkely was 6'5, Baylor was 6'5, Unseld 6'7 and Ben Wallace was 6'8, and they're all either in the HOF already or are headed there.

That's funny it's okay to make the assumption Stanley Johnson can be just as good at 6'6 like this these guys, but damn if I say Moose should be balling like Moses and Lanier

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