I Don't Care If He's 6'6

[Murph]

I don't care if Stanley Johnson is only 6'6.  He'll still be the best option available to us at #8.  

If I recall, Adrian Dantley was 6'4, Charles Barkely was 6'5, Baylor was 6'5, Unseld 6'7 and Ben Wallace was 6'8, and they're all either in the HOF already or are headed there.

[WTF]

It's not an argument Murph it's an opinion and I'm of the opinion that Moose is a lazy fu@k that has the potential to be good as the two players I've mentioned.  

What the hell Charlie has to do with this anyway but since you brought him up I'll rather have Charlie than Moose's lazy ass.  Whatever accomplishments you think Moose had individually they meant poop to this team being successful.

Monroe ended up being one of the best players of his draft class, right behind Wall and Cousins. He worked hard in Detroit. He took a huge risk and played for an entire season without a LT contract, and hopefully it will pay off for him. If he wants to go back to LA, I hope the Pelicans sign him.

Moose never worked hard a day in his life if he need he would have had a mid-range shot 2 seasons ago, and amazing you're patting him on the head for playing with a LT contract like he was doing the team a great service when its all about his own greed that he did it. Don't act as if that's something admirable that it should get an applaud. Owe he fake an injury the last 20 games of the season in fear of getting injured. Right that's a true heart of a champion oops he's not a champion

[Murph]

"You know why I hate Moose so much? Because he's just a big as Moses, Lanier and should be able to dominate a game in the same manner these cats did but he's too freaking lazy."


That's a stupid argument. There are a lot of guys in the NBA who are as big, but didn't play as well as Moses Malone or Bob Lanier. Take former Pistons Charlie Villanueva for example. Charlie was 6'11 and a load. But he's a pathetic journeyman who's barely averaged 10 points and 5 rebounds throughout his career.

Monroe ended up being one of the best players of his draft class, right behind Wall and Cousins. He worked hard in Detroit. He took a huge risk and played for an entire season without a LT contract, and hopefully it will pay off for him. If he wants to go back to LA, I hope the Pelicans sign him.

Charlotte might be a good fit for Singler. The Hornets need 3 point shooting, and he'd be well received back in North Carolina where he led Duke to a national championship.

[WTF]

Ok, here we have some good reads!

This article covers in detail and with charts and data, the reasons we don't need or want Monroe to stay, and the reasons and data are compelling - Breaking Up Would Be Best Move for Greg Monroe and Detroit Pistons

This one is VERY interesting, and not quite what I thought it was going to be from the title! Two things jumped out at me in this article.

1. Drummond makes definitive statements that show he's finally "Getting It", and unlike his dumb as talking about being the leader, now he actually sounds like he knows it will take more than words, and he talks about a new attitude! Don't be upset that some will say that he should have been doing this all along, it doesn't work that way. In life, you sometimes need an event or series of events to wake you up!
   
2. Drummond is visibly losing weight! At first this scared me, but his reasoning makes ultimate sense. He has come to realize that he hasn't been conditioned to go the distance in the NBA, so he's putting conditioning ahead of raw bulk. IMO, this wil result in some major positives on both sides of the ball, and deep into the 4th quarter!
   

Interesting stuff - Pistons' Drummond has new mind-set: I'm tired of losing

As President of the Josh Smith Fan Club I can only say we told you so. On the subject of Monroe alone there's nothing here that really hasn't been said before hell I've been saying as much since 3 seasons back. I'm hoping like hell he's not back with this team and that unlike last summer SVG don't over-value Monroe and screw this thing up but like last year I'll say the same thing just let his ass walk and move on.

As far as Drummond is concerned I'm glad his attitude has taken a turn and I hope I we're not subjected to the same crazy talk about leadership we were all last summer. He should also consider some modern dance and yoga classes over the summer because he's not all that fluid in his movement around the basket.

The surprise in that article wasn't so much what was written about Monroe and Drummond but the comments on Jacksons ability to shoot as well. We need a PG who is a definitive threat to knock down the long ball. Discussing his percentage shouldn't be a conversation at all because it should be as simply being a no, no to leave him unguarded much in the way it was with Chauncey. The question is do we really want to resign Jackson knowing he's not as effective as he should be from outside.

[Oracle]

Ok, here we have some good reads!

This article covers in detail and with charts and data, the reasons we don't need or want Monroe to stay, and the reasons and data are compelling - Breaking Up Would Be Best Move for Greg Monroe and Detroit Pistons

This one is VERY interesting, and not quite what I thought it was going to be from the title! Two things jumped out at me in this article.

1. Drummond makes definitive statements that show he's finally "Getting It", and unlike his dumb as talking about being the leader, now he actually sounds like he knows it will take more than words, and he talks about a new attitude! Don't be upset that some will say that he should have been doing this all along, it doesn't work that way. In life, you sometimes need an event or series of events to wake you up!
   
2. Drummond is visibly losing weight! At first this scared me, but his reasoning makes ultimate sense. He has come to realize that he hasn't been conditioned to go the distance in the NBA, so he's putting conditioning ahead of raw bulk. IMO, this wil result in some major positives on both sides of the ball, and deep into the 4th quarter!
   

Interesting stuff - Pistons' Drummond has new mind-set: I'm tired of losing

[Oracle]

Australian Rapper Amethyst Amelia Kelly, better known by her stage name Iggy Azalea

 

[Oracle]

Nah, there is a Magic bias when compared to Jordan. Mike was 6 for 6 in 15 years. Magic was 5 for 9 in 12 years. Nine Finals in 12 years !!! And he required no acclimation period.

I agree, and add to that the fact that Magic faces a MUCH higher level of competition that the Bulls ever did, Jordan's teams almost need an asterisk that says - "All of the Super Teams were gone"

The super teams were the Lakers, Boston & Detroit! They all beat you in different, but lethal ways!

Now, I do think the Bulls were the last of the super teams, but the difference is that the big 3 had to fight each other, super vs super, and the Bulls(through no fault of their own) didn't!

[WTF]

Lemon, Oracle, Wise, aren't you glad we got a chance to see the likes of Russell, Chamberlain, Baylor, Maravich, Wilkens, "The Wizard," Magic, Bird, Zeke, Barkley, Jabbar, Ewing, Lanier, West, "The Big O," to name a select few of the past forgotten greats, along with being able to enjoy todays greats? I feel sorry for the fans that didn't get a chance to enjoy the play of the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's. The only thing about basketball I remember from the 50's is the Harlem Globetrotters.

Yes the hell I am! I think this Casual Fan Base is completely lost of some great history and great players. Especially the players of the 70's and 80's I can't imagine not seeing players like Julius and Gervin. As Oracle stated today's player are more athletic but I don't think they're as nearly as graceful and smooth in how they played. I would die to see a finger roll or the smooth move of Julius, I would die to see a current big master the sky hook it all seem so forced now with just the power and athleticism of today's players. Most of these players today are crappy version of real dunkers like Chocolate Thunder, Clyde the Glide, Nique and Barkley. I think C-Webb was the last big to effectively use the sky hook or jump hook.

I look at KD and see so much of Gervin in him but no finger roll to be found anywhere. IMO today's game is just a bunch of dunks and poor perimeter shooting it lost it's beauty. Remember every Magic pass was so trick no look pass on a break and even in half court he made it look special we don't get that kind of stuff now. Don't get me wrong I like a good alley oop every now and then and the occasional power slam but nothing was better than seeing Worthy obliterate his opponent on shear speed to dunk or watching the Dream Shake on the baseline.

You know why I hate Moose so much? Because he's just a big as Moses, Lanier and should be able to dominate a game in the same manner these cats did but he's too freaking lazy.

[lemonpen]

You actually make some EXCELLENT points!

Athletically the players are a lot better, but as you pointed out, that's only one aspect of being a great player.

The players of MJ's era were a hell of a lot better overall basketball players on both sides of the ball and mentally tougher!

I've done something that I don't like to do, and shouldn't have done here.

It's really hard to compare players across eras, and it's really unfair to them!

I think we can all agree that both MJ & LeBron are special players!

How come no one seems willing to toss Magic and Wilt into that conversation.  One dominated the team aspect (as well as individual) for a decade, while the other dominated the individual aspect like no other, before or since.

Lemon I think had Magic or Bird never loss in the Finals then we could argue if they were better than MJ.  IMO that's whats seperate MJ from them.  But I think that kind of added to my point as well on the talent level.  There was always a argument to made on who the best players was during the 80's and part of the 90's.   Hands down it clearly Lebron all alone in today's era and no one else.  

Oracle, I don't like the comparing era's either beyond imagining what a player might be in another era.  In today's era Lebron is the best but until his career is actually over the MJ comparison should cease IMO

Nah, there is a Magic bias when compared to Jordan. Mike was 6 for 6 in 15 years. Magic was 5 for 9 in 12 years. Nine Finals in 12 years !!! And he required no acclimation period.

[deusXango]

"Why is SF now being considered our biggest need, but nary a mention of bringing back the great Kyle Singler?"


Why would we bring back Singler, when we have Quincy Miller?  After all, Miller is a career 35% shooter, who shot 24% last year.

Sarcasm, plain and simple. If anyone that's been on this forum for any length of time that doesn't know how I feel about Kyle Singler, has been asleep! I've tested the boundaries of my friendship with Don by constantly ripping Singler and the Pistons need for him as a starter.

Sebastian is the only poster that's come home to reality about our flexibility at SF by reminding me, at least, that Quincey Miller is being overlooked without giving him a decent shot at being a part of our future. I personally think it's an injustice to look past a 22 year old, 6 foot 10, matchup nightmare, by "jocking" unknowns simply because he hasn't found a home in the NBA. "He didn't do this in Sacramento, he didn't do that in Denver," so it follows he has nothing to contribute in Detroit. I got no problem with you disagreeing with me, but re-signing Monroe? Myles Leonard? Personally I'd take Cauley-Stein, Portis, Kaminsky, Lyles, Looney, or Turner, who'll all probably be available at #8, before I'd re-sign Monroe and whoever we got at #38, I'd roll the dice on them being better for us than Leonard.

Lemon, Oracle, Wise, aren't you glad we got a chance to see the likes of Russell, Chamberlain, Baylor, Maravich, Wilkens, "The Wizard," Magic, Bird, Zeke, Barkley, Jabbar, Ewing, Lanier, West, "The Big O," to name a select few of the past forgotten greats, along with being able to enjoy todays greats? I feel sorry for the fans that didn't get a chance to enjoy the play of the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's. The only thing about basketball I remember from the 50's is the Harlem Globetrotters.

[Murph]

"Why is SF now being considered our biggest need, but nary a mention of bringing back the great Kyle Singler?"


Why would we bring back Singler, when we have Quincy Miller? After all, Miller is a career 35% shooter, who shot 24% last year.

[WTF]

Ewing sums it up on his era vs today: He said that in his era, players were required to be able to score, rebound, block shots and play defense, but today, they can only to one or two things decently... SO TRUE!!!

He says it near the end of this interview - GameTime: Ewing on Draft

Ewing got it correct he should have mentioned the why though. I think the big issue is the one and done policy and lack of fundamental development at the college level because of the desire of the league to find the next Patrick, MJ, Bird and Magic when they draft these guys today. It starts with the build up and over-hyping of players via ESPN and all the premature comparisons and then dumb NBA management starts feeding on it.

I know it's the money and if I was a player looking to cash in fast I would bolt for the pros as well ready or not but this practice IMO has brought the level of overall talent to an all-time low. I think the idea that a Kobe, Lebron and Shaq are in the next draft year after year has hurt teams and the league as well.

I love Josh Smith but he would be a different player with 4 years of college to go alone with all the talent he poses, so would a player like Carmelo who would be a far better player than he is. I chuckle at Ewing's comments about Okafor and the other potential pick flaws then thought about the over hyping that has taken place. It's a joke

[WTF]

You actually make some EXCELLENT points!

Athletically the players are a lot better, but as you pointed out, that's only one aspect of being a great player.

The players of MJ's era were a hell of a lot better overall basketball players on both sides of the ball and mentally tougher!

I've done something that I don't like to do, and shouldn't have done here.

It's really hard to compare players across eras, and it's really unfair to them!

I think we can all agree that both MJ & LeBron are special players!

How come no one seems willing to toss Magic and Wilt into that conversation.  One dominated the team aspect (as well as individual) for a decade, while the other dominated the individual aspect like no other, before or since.

Lemon I think had Magic or Bird never loss in the Finals then we could argue if they were better than MJ. IMO that's whats seperate MJ from them. But I think that kind of added to my point as well on the talent level. There was always a argument to made on who the best players was during the 80's and part of the 90's. Hands down it clearly Lebron all alone in today's era and no one else.

Oracle, I don't like the comparing era's either beyond imagining what a player might be in another era. In today's era Lebron is the best but until his career is actually over the MJ comparison should cease IMO

[Oracle]

Ewing sums it up on his era vs today: He said that in his era, players were required to be able to score, rebound, block shots and play defense, but today, they can only to one or two things decently... SO TRUE!!!

He says it near the end of this interview - GameTime: Ewing on Draft

[Oracle]

You actually make some EXCELLENT points!

Athletically the players are a lot better, but as you pointed out, that's only one aspect of being a great player.

The players of MJ's era were a hell of a lot better overall basketball players on both sides of the ball and mentally tougher!

I've done something that I don't like to do, and shouldn't have done here.

It's really hard to compare players across eras, and it's really unfair to them!

I think we can all agree that both MJ & LeBron are special players!

How come no one seems willing to toss Magic and Wilt into that conversation.  One dominated the team aspect (as well as individual) for a decade, while the other dominated the individual aspect like no other, before or since.

I totally agree, and you can add Russell, Big O and a few others to that list as well for consideration and see who comes out on top!

The only reason we're limiting it to MJ & LeBron is because that's the current fight in the media and online.

Sadly if you're not really a student of the game, most people only know the players that were in their field of view, unlike most of us who actually want to know about former greats!

Still, I think comparisons across eras is tough!

[lemonpen]

You actually make some EXCELLENT points!

Athletically the players are a lot better, but as you pointed out, that's only one aspect of being a great player.

The players of MJ's era were a hell of a lot better overall basketball players on both sides of the ball and mentally tougher!

I've done something that I don't like to do, and shouldn't have done here.

It's really hard to compare players across eras, and it's really unfair to them!

I think we can all agree that both MJ & LeBron are special players!

How come no one seems willing to toss Magic and Wilt into that conversation. One dominated the team aspect (as well as individual) for a decade, while the other dominated the individual aspect like no other, before or since.

[Oracle]

This is some sickening stuff!!!

[Oracle]

You actually make some EXCELLENT points!

Athletically the players are a lot better, but as you pointed out, that's only one aspect of being a great player.

The players of MJ's era were a hell of a lot better overall basketball players on both sides of the ball and mentally tougher!

I've done something that I don't like to do, and shouldn't have done here.

It's really hard to compare players across eras, and it's really unfair to them!

I think we can all agree that both MJ & LeBron are special players!

[Sebastian]

Yo, DX, and my other Pistons Pals, since WE are 24 days from the 2015 NBA Draft I am willing to read all and any pre-Draft ideas that are manufactured by ALL.

I, personally, do not agree with DX and hope like hell that GM Stan feels the same.

Here's my recommendation to GM Stan:

Move the #8 Pick to the team that will get that Larry, after they pimp-slap LeBron and his Cavs in a Gentleman's Sweep (4-1) for Harrison Barnes and Golden State's #30 Pick. Draymond's contract comes ups for renewal on July 1, as he will become a RFA and I am almost sure that the Warriors will match what the market will determine Green's 2015-value. The Warriors will not be able to pay both HB, Draymond Green, and Iggy. The Warriors will learn during these Finals that Draymond is really a SF and their will not be any need to have two starting SF on their roster, along with a somewhat washed Iggy who's remaining two years at $11.7 million and $11.3 million will be difficult to move.

Harrison Barnes would be the answer at OUR starting SF spot. Under Coach Stan, Barnes can truly become the player that he should be (20 pts, 6 rbs, 6 ast).

Trade the #30 Pick from Golden State, along with OUR #38 Pick to Portland for Myles Leonard.

If WE then were able to make this swap, I would be willing to resigning Moose and Mr. October (Reggie Jackson).

PG - Reggie Jackson/ B. Jennings
SG - KCP/F@ckin' Jodie Meeks
SF - Harrison Barnes/Quincy Miller
PF - Moose/M. Leonard/Quincy Miller
C - Dre' Drum/Moose

10th-man: Dinwiddie, 11th-man: Cartier Martin, 13th-man: Joel Anthony (Resign Anthony for peanuts. I believe he likes peanuts.)

Note: I am subject to changing all of the aforementioned recommendations prior to Draft night and very well may do so. I still don't like three contracts that WE are stuck with for the upcoming season: $6,000,000 owed to F@ckin' Jodie Meeks through 2016-17, $4.5 million owed to broke down, ass Caron Butler (2015-16), and the invisible $5.5 million owed to Josh Smith through the 2019-2020 season.

Damn, GM Stan you've got to make some good moves, this summer.  

I wonder if it's possible and if it is, what would it take to get #9 from Charlotte? I'd love Stanley Johnson (all 6' 6" of him) and Frank Kaminsky (the oldest 22 year old walking the planet) at 8 & 9, and sign DeMarre Carroll in FA...a bench of Johnson, Kaminsky, Dinwiddie, and Meeks is not a bad set of rotation players. A starting unit of Drummond, Tolliver, Carroll, KCP, and Jackson is better than most think, but isn't built for championship contention; hell, WE'RE IN THE PLAYOFFS FINALLY!!!

Please re-sign Jackson, allow Monroe to walk (if that what things come to) and trade Jennings, as soon as he can perform. There will be shooters galore in FA, so it's not imperative that we go looking for a spot-up shooter who won't move the needle, but players that'll fit into a team scheme. Just me thinking early in the morning.

[WTF]

@Lemonpen/@Wise - Wise, I hear you about championships, and normally that is the clincher, but LeBron's case is the exception to that rule for several reasons! However the one argument I find it hard to overcome is the talent argument. MJ never had to face guys with the talent to do what he did on a nightly basis, and more than one of those type guys on the same team most nights.

I have to disagree with you on your comment about MJ facing talent. I agree that the level of athleticism is far better now then it was in the 80's and 90's but overall talent isn't even close. Even before MJ even won his first title you have to consider the talent level he faced and played against he was going up against some the best players in the league (Magic, Bird, Zeke, Dream, Ewing, Barkley, Nique, Malone, Stockton, Robinson, Worthy and a young Tim Duncan and Shaq) Just to name a few and these guys are Top 50 NBA All Time Greats.

When I look at the talent level that Lebron faces today and have in past many of those players may never crack the Top 50 with the exception of Kobe and Duncan and perhaps Dirk. I don't want to sound as if I'm dissing Lebron I actually grown to like him a lot as a player but there is a **** load of players that MJ faced that currently sits in the Hall of Fame 3 of them from a team (Zeke, Joe and Dennis) that often whipped on his ass. I often entertain a thought of Lebron facing a Bad Boy team and wondering if he could consistently do what he does against current players.

I could never argue that Lebron isn't more physically talented than MJ but IMO he's nowhere near being the better player. MJ was on a team filled with superstars it was him and Pippen then a variety of role players and very good coach. There was no Big Three and a roster filled of cheap veteran role players on their last leg looking for a title. There were no Lebron Rule's but there certainly was Jordan Rule's. I don't just judge MJ on his titles he won but the path he took to get there. Basically every Top 50 players frowned at the idea of forming a Big Three and him bolting for Miami so it does kind of steal some of the glory away from what Lebron has accomplished.

What I really don't get is the belief that players are today are better then those from the 80's and 90's. We have a few players today that are extremely talented and gifted but they're scares and many are far over hyped. Back then and more so in the 80's every team had 2 or 3 All Stars and there weren't many scrub teams going around. How can these current players be so much better when we're all consistently looking for the next Shaq, Mj, Magic, Bird, Zeke, Dream and so on every time a players is prematurely drafted and given a superstar title. Many of those past player would eat these guys alive for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

[deusXango]

I wonder if it's possible and if it is, what would it take to get #9 from Charlotte? I'd love Stanley Johnson (all 6' 6" of him) and Frank Kaminsky (the oldest 22 year old walking the planet) at 8 & 9, and sign DeMarre Carroll in FA...a bench of Johnson, Kaminsky, Dinwiddie, and Meeks is not a bad set of rotation players. A starting unit of Drummond, Tolliver, Carroll, KCP, and Jackson is better than most think, but isn't built for championship contention; hell, WE'RE IN THE PLAYOFFS FINALLY!!!

Please re-sign Jackson, allow Monroe to walk (if that what things come to) and trade Jennings, as soon as he can perform. There will be shooters galore in FA, so it's not imperative that we go looking for a spot-up shooter who won't move the needle, but players that'll fit into a team scheme. Just me thinking early in the morning.

[Phil-Good]

I think this would be my pick at 8. Devin Booker. That's the kid I like the most...

[lemonpen]

Pelicans hire ex-Piston Alvin Gentry as coach???

Ok, he's the offensive coordinator for the Warriors... so effing what??? Hell I could be the offensive coordinator for the Warriors!

Here's my coordinating... Give the damn ball either of the Splash Brothers and get the hell out of the way... DONE!!!

Seriously, this does sound like donut advice from Joe!

Pelicans hire ex-Piston Alvin Gentry as coach

They had to ask Tibs, right?
Anthony Davis alone is a pretty strong attraction, right.
A playoff caliber roster in the Western Conference, too.

Yeah, that hire seems too hasty and too weak.

[Oracle]

Pelicans hire ex-Piston Alvin Gentry as coach???

Ok, he's the offensive coordinator for the Warriors... so effing what??? Hell I could be the offensive coordinator for the Warriors!

Here's my coordinating... Give the damn ball either of the Splash Brothers and get the hell out of the way... DONE!!!

Seriously, this does sound like donut advice from Joe!

Pelicans hire ex-Piston Alvin Gentry as coach

[Oracle]

@Lemonpen/@Wise - Wise, I hear you about championships, and normally that is the clincher, but LeBron's case is the exception to that rule for several reasons! However the one argument I find it hard to overcome is the talent argument. MJ never had to face guys with the talent to do what he did on a nightly basis, and more than one of those type guys on the same team most nights.

MJ was damn near alone, but today, his stuff is boringly normal! So yes, Kobe could be considered better for the talent he had to face, but LeBron is a combination of MJ, Magic and the beast that Barkley was in one body... sorry, MJ wasn't that good!

@DX - You're like the guy that asks you for a light, then gives you a hot foot! Stop rubbing the Singler stuff into our open wound . He's gone and we need to get better, nobody said he was a savior, just the best we had at the time.

And yeah, this talk of making Monroe our #1 priority was some sick stuff, he's hardly #1 on any of our lists! I really want us to go big in the draft, but PLEASE don't believe a word SVG has to say about the draft!

Anything he says now is designed to throw off the teams picking above us in the hope that it lets who we really want fall to us! I think Kaminsky will go too far below us to be considered at 8, but I do think he would fit nicely next to Drummond, but it's probably not to be!

More @Wise - I agree on the Warriors! Maybe not a sweep, but I can't see how they can beat a team like the Cavs! The Cavs are way too big and physical for them. But ask yourself this... Who but LeBron could bring a weak ass team like this to the finals and have them look like world beaters? Everybody else on this Cavs team is a lifetime LOSER, a collection of dudes that belong on post office posters! LeBron is amazing!

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