Plan D

[Murph]

Well, SVG certainly subscribes to the theory of quantity over quality.  In one fell swoop, he solved our SF problem, sort of.

So the rotation is rounding into shape:

Jackson, Jennings, Dinwiddie
KCP, Meeks, Hilliard
Morris, Johnson, Martin, Bullock
Ilyasova, Tolliver, Miller
Drummond, Baynes

I was never expecting Aldridge or Love to sign with the Pistons, but somehow I was hoping for more than Morris and Ilyasova.  Oh well...

[Oracle]

Marcus Morris gets tech's... a lot of them, and blows up at the coach along with other bad character issues... WTF is SVG thinking???

Phoenix Suns 2014/15 Report Card: Marcus Morris brings the Good, the Bad and the Foolish

Although he's the lesser Morris twin, he is the best 3 point shooter of the two, and was the best on the Suns team! This article asks and answers a question - Marcus Morris: Small Forward or Power Forward?

They conclude that he's probably best suited to be a stretch 4!

[Oracle]

Detroit Lion dies!!!

Lions legend Charlie Sanders dies at 68

RIP great one, you'll always be remembered!!!

[merc]

Don, might want to recheck Jackson's stats... he should be given a pass for the first few games adjusting to the new system & players... his last 20 games was at elite level... I personally like how he fights through picks and is aggressive on D... Jackson is the least of our concerns (other than signing him) on this roster.
Thanks for the scouting report on Baynes... I figured you'd know him from Washington State.
Bullock can be trade fodder at the deadline (expiring year).
Gonna hold judgement on Morris... should be an easy salary to trade if he doesn't work out... no risk for a 2nd rounder sometime in the next millennium.

[Sebastian]

GM Stan can't be dumb enough to take on useless salary by helping the Suns. WTF is he doing acquiring three dudes, where two are not really NBA players (Granger is done and Bullock, a true D-Leaguer) and 1/2 of the Morris twins. And, GM Stan didn't even acquire the better Morris twin.

GM Stan has to have a cogent plan for these three. I am cool with Marcus, if Stan is able to get Markieff. I really don't believe that these two guys are ready to be productive NBA players without the other.

For the record, I am okay with the Baynes signing, as I was hoping that GM Stan would sign Bismack Biyombo at $5 for 4, but Baynes may be a little better player than my man, Biz.

C'mon Stan you got to have something better up your coat sleeves.

[Oracle]

Of course, when you give out trash, a single 2nd round pick, you get trash! For the price of a 2nd round pick, we get the mighty,

1. Danny Granger: Last effective game was when... hell, none of us was alive back then, so who knows!
2. Reggie Bullock: He put up staggering stats of 1.9PPG, 0.2 Assists and 1.4 boards from the SF position
3. Marcus Morris: Also knows as one half of the felon brothers & the lesser of the Morris twins... meet your new starting SF with size

And the best news is that if we don't waive the whole crew, we get to pay their asses real money! BTW, our CAP space is pretty low at this point, so barring trades, we're pretty much done after resigning Reggie!

What's that I hear??? Is somebody saying, "Bring Back old do nothing Joe Dumars"?

Naw, I better clean my ears

[Phil-Good]

I have to agree. This was A great move for Monroe. I have to admit, i pull for the small market teams like Indiana, Detroit, Cleveland and Milwaukee. I'm A Pistons until they put me 6-feet under, and I will still be A pistons fan in haven. But I pull for the little guy.

Milwaukee is now on my league pass for sure!!!

Good trade for Detroit. Draft and trades are the only way Detroit will build A core that will get back to the NBA Finals. Free Agents will not move to Detroit. That's just the way it is and always will be.

But The Pistons have something better. CAP SPACE. And Lots of it!!!

[Oracle]

Before I start, thanks Don for talking me off the ledge, I'm back in the Pistons game again

Jackson is very similar to Danny Green in that nobody is going to waste time trying to sign him, so we're effectively bidding against ourselves!

In a strange irony, Knight has set the bar, and will likely force us to come in close to or at the $70M 5 year mark!

Why did Knight command so much? Well, the Bucks was the team that Knight built, he was the unquestioned star and the player they went to deep in the 4th to win the game and he delivered! He wore Phoenix out the two times they played, and they were rightly impressed! Happily, his departure unleashed a potent Middleton, and our dumb asses wound up giving away 2 rising stars for one gimpy AAU about to retire(if you believe that crap) hopeful player! I like Jennings, but for Knight & Middleton... not that effing much!

So can SVG do what SA did with Green, and bring him on board just under the max, or will he match Knight's windfall? I don't know, but it will tell us a lot about how this organization is structured, and here's why!

If the GM was separate from the coach, the coach has plausible deniability about contractual stuff, but in our case, the coach is directly responsible, so it's harder to play hardball, or the bad feelings could spill over into the season!

There are advantages to the combined role, but nothing is perfect!

[cool breeze]

Who???

Not only signed him, but yet again, over paid for a guy that can't jump, can't score, is really about 6'9.5, and coming off a CAREER year scoring 6.9pts and 4.5 boards!

The Grizzlies gave Brandan Wright 17M, and we give this slug 20M???

Somebody talk me off the ledge, I'm not getting this!!!
EDIT:
Ok, he did have at least one big game, and doesn't look too bad... actually better than Monroe in some aspects

Come down off the ledge Oracle! Live to see a beautiful woman give you a sexy look. Think of something great you would want to have for dinner. Wow that was close now you are OK.

Prices are high. I like Baynes. He did some good things in playoff situations. He is aggressive on defense and fights for position on the defensive boards. Baynes could really look good in the Eastern Conference. He takes up space and can defend players like Monroe. We now have two rotation players both at center and power forward. Problem solved as Stan Van Gundy takes the left overs to snag a guy who might be on course to step up his game and become a fan favorite at the Palace. We now have a group of bigs that can develop together and form solid chemistry. That always takes time but I think Stan has done a good job here to create a good blend of personalities who all play hard.

There are still 3 positions that will need some work.

No need to discuss the small forward position. Stan has a plan and I will support his plan.

Can the shooting guards ( KCP and Meeks) make big shots? Yes who are the shot makers night in and night out in the 4th quarter of games? We need help at the 2 guard spot for sure based on past experience.

Can our point guards with the exception of Dinwiddie defend anyone? Will Jackson be offered a crazy contract based on his bad stats on both ends while adjusting to a starting role last season? Jackson seems like a guy who is out of control a lot and might not ever be a top tier type point guard. Jackson might become really exciting but he has to take better care of the basketball if he signs a big contract. This will be a huge gamble for Stan Van Gundy if Jackson does get a mega contract.

I am sure Stan Van Gundy has a solid plan to add an experienced player at small forward and maybe a trade to shake things up perhaps with the 2 guard position. Top tier free agents are not excited about coming to Detroit. Our current players need to prove that they are the type of players that top rated players would want to suit up with. We have no star player yet.

The way Joe Dumars stacked this Piston team with inferior athletes still amazes me. Van Gundy has been left to pick up the pieces and he has slowly cleaned up the roster to the point where Piston fans will be able to enjoy attending games again. This year will be another development year but with better NBA type players who are not slackers. That means there should be more Piston fans attending the games to give support to the team. The Eastern conference might be a weaker conference than the Western conference but some solid basketball GMs and staffs have a real edge over the Pistons right now because Dumars was asleep at the wheel for so long. We are getting up to speed now but we are now facing some Eastern Conference clubs that have good maturing players who have experienced the playoffs. This year is going to be a struggle but much better than last year.

[cool breeze]

A max contract for Monroe? Congratulations Greg Monroe and I really mean it. As good as it is that he signed a max deal, it's even better that it was done without that delusional S & T many fans held out hope that we'd do and still somehow profit from him leaving; he didn't want to be here and didn't want our money! What the hell was the Q.O. about if that wasn't a fact?

Stan Van Gundy repeatedly stated he was prepared for any and all eventualities last year, and it seems so to me; SVG would've made one helluva riverboat gambler. IMHO Ilyasova is a more complete and better fitting PF on this team than the Moose was and would've been...we got Ersan for "garbage" and his contract is very modest for what we need...Milwaukee got Greg for the max and it's yet to be determined how that's going to work out. How many reliable stretch shooters are in the top 7-8 players for the Bucks?

It's been an unfair forgone conclusion that Quincy Miller has been what he'll always be, even though that now that he's healthy and playing for an organization that has faith in him, he's working his ass off; let's wait and see if SVG's faith, in this player, was justified or a waste of time. Call him whatever type of forward you want, I believe he'll be better than all the natural forwards we had under contract and playing for us last year! I'm not talking about "name" or "back in the day, they was hellafied" forwards, but what they brought to the floor for us last year. What'll he cost us should SVG should decide to extend him for 4-5 years? Certainly not more that what Meeks was signed for last year and I'm damn sure Miller will bring more to the table than Meeks. $6 million a year for a top FT shooter who comes off the bench that can't defend sounds crazy to me, but that's just me. Sh!!!!t.

BK7 signed a $70 million contract to stay in Phoenix; how long was he in Phoenix and what did he accomplish during that time to earn that type of contract? He deserves it and it makes sense, but why can't we pull for Reggie Jackson to stay here? For the length of time he was here and the conditions he came under, I know exactly what he accomplished! He's earned the right to be signed for what it takes to keep him a Piston, in today's market, and he wants to be here...that means something to me...he wants to be a Piston and represent the fair city of Detroit.

I'm all for offering Tobias Harris max money and cutting bait with Jennings A.S.A.P.; our draftees and Dinwiddie should not have to wait for a "gimpy" player to heal that's not going to be with us beyond the expiration of his current contract (last year here), before they start to compete and develop in the NBA. That 6' 6" height that some look at as being a disadvantage is meaningless, if there's a giant sized heart and effort packaged in there. I remember the size of Charlie V and the Moose, and I also remember the sizes of their hearts and true effort they gave us.    

GOOD JOB ON THIS POST DX.

[Oracle]

Who???

Not only signed him, but yet again, over paid for a guy that can't jump, can't score, is really about 6'9.5, and coming off a CAREER year scoring 6.9pts and 4.5 boards!

The Grizzlies gave Brandan Wright 17M, and we give this slug 20M???

Somebody talk me off the ledge, I'm not getting this!!!
EDIT:
Ok, he did have at least one big game, and doesn't look too bad... actually better than Monroe in some aspects

[deusXango]

A max contract for Monroe? Congratulations Greg Monroe and I really mean it. As good as it is that he signed a max deal, it's even better that it was done without that delusional S & T many fans held out hope that we'd do and still somehow profit from him leaving; he didn't want to be here and didn't want our money! What the hell was the Q.O. about if that wasn't a fact?

Stan Van Gundy repeatedly stated he was prepared for any and all eventualities last year, and it seems so to me; SVG would've made one helluva riverboat gambler. IMHO Ilyasova is a more complete and better fitting PF on this team than the Moose was and would've been...we got Ersan for "garbage" and his contract is very modest for what we need...Milwaukee got Greg for the max and it's yet to be determined how that's going to work out. How many reliable stretch shooters are in the top 7-8 players for the Bucks?

It's been an unfair forgone conclusion that Quincy Miller has been what he'll always be, even though that now that he's healthy and playing for an organization that has faith in him, he's working his ass off; let's wait and see if SVG's faith, in this player, was justified or a waste of time. Call him whatever type of forward you want, I believe he'll be better than all the natural forwards we had under contract and playing for us last year! I'm not talking about "name" or "back in the day, they was hellafied" forwards, but what they brought to the floor for us last year. What'll he cost us should SVG should decide to extend him for 4-5 years? Certainly not more that what Meeks was signed for last year and I'm damn sure Miller will bring more to the table than Meeks. $6 million a year for a top FT shooter who comes off the bench that can't defend sounds crazy to me, but that's just me. Sh!!!!t.

BK7 signed a $70 million contract to stay in Phoenix; how long was he in Phoenix and what did he accomplish during that time to earn that type of contract? He deserves it and it makes sense, but why can't we pull for Reggie Jackson to stay here? For the length of time he was here and the conditions he came under, I know exactly what he accomplished! He's earned the right to be signed for what it takes to keep him a Piston, in today's market, and he wants to be here...that means something to me...he wants to be a Piston and represent the fair city of Detroit.

I'm all for offering Tobias Harris max money and cutting bait with Jennings A.S.A.P.; our draftees and Dinwiddie should not have to wait for a "gimpy" player to heal that's not going to be with us beyond the expiration of his current contract (last year here), before they start to compete and develop in the NBA. That 6' 6" height that some look at as being a disadvantage is meaningless, if there's a giant sized heart and effort packaged in there. I remember the size of Charlie V and the Moose, and I also remember the sizes of their hearts and true effort they gave us.

[lemonpen]

And speaking of getting paid, I see Moose just signed a max contract with the Bucks (3 years at $50 million).  

Does that make any of the Moose haters on this forum a little uneasy that John Hammond valued Monroe enough to give him the max, while we're going to be starting Ilyasova, a player Hammond dumped for next to nothing so that he could sign Monroe?  Hmmm...I have the nagging feeling Hammond just took us to the cleaners again. 


So the Bucks will be starting:  MCW, Middleton, The Greek Freak, Parker and Monroe.  And they have a excellent young coach in Kidd.  Good for them.

I know it's early, but ...... for a team that was seeking to land an impact player it's a little too quiet here for all of the noise elsewhere.

I know it's early, but ...... for a team that is seeking to retain an impact player it's a little too quiet here for all of the noise elsewhere.

I know it's early, but ...... for a GM rather new to the game there sure is a LOT of $$$$$$$ being tossed out there.  I gotta wonder if we damaged our opportunity for favorable outcomes with overly conservative lures.

I know it's early, but  ...................  are we even in the game?

[Murph]

And speaking of getting paid, I see Moose just signed a max contract with the Bucks (3 years at $50 million).  

Does that make any of the Moose haters on this forum a little uneasy that John Hammond valued Monroe enough to give him the max, while we're going to be starting Ilyasova, a player Hammond dumped for next to nothing so that he could sign Monroe?  Hmmm...I have the nagging feeling Hammond just took us to the cleaners again. 


So the Bucks will be starting:  MCW, Middleton, The Greek Freak, Parker and Monroe.  And they have a excellent young coach in Kidd.  Good for them.

[Sebastian]

Day 2
GM Stan has to make a move, now, on Tobias Harris ($60/4 years), $15 million a year is fair enough. It is slightly more per season ($1 million) than Middleton's new contract and it allows him the opportunity to get paid again at 27 years old.

Cap Space
In my humble opinion taking cap space of $30 million into the 2015-16 season and through next July is not a strategy to pursue. Every team in the League will have a fist full of cap space, next July. And, if WE can't sign players of significance and hopeful potential, this July then WE may as well get ready to grossly overpay for C-level talent, next July. Not going to be able to do it! (In Jalen Rose's voice.)

Not signing a quality, young free agent at the SF position (Tobias Harris) and a decent young back-up center, who is a good rim-runner and pick-and-roll guy six-feet from the basket and who is a very good rim-protector (Bismack Biyombo) would be a giant step backwards for OUR Pistons.

WE should be able to get Tobias at 4 years/$60 million, a contract that would pay him $15 per and that would allow him to get a new contract at 27 years old (a good age for an even larger contract). Twenty million in four years would be a fair contract contract for Biyombo.

Everything will be great. it's totally ok to go into the season with 25 to 30 million in cap space. Guaranteed, somebody will be ready to dump good players. Somebody will not be happy with giving A guy A new contract.


Patience is how you win the game that the Pistons are playing. Free Agents are not knocking down Detroit's door. So now yo have to pimp the game in other ways...... Having major cap money is A win...win for Detroit.


GUARANTEED!!!!!

[Murph]

With Carroll and Draymond Green gone in the blink of an eye, Corey Brewer is looking better and better.

[Murph]

"Among the players locked up on long-term deals Wednesday: Brandon Knight, five years, $70 million to stay in Phoenix; Khris Middleton, five years, $70 million to stay in Milwaukee; Kyle Singler, five years, $25 million to stay in Oklahoma City; Amir Johnson, two years, $24 million to leave Toronto for Boston; Jonas Jerebko, two years, $10 million to stay in Boston.

That list of players and its $199 million in new contracts is notable for one reason: All five are ex-Pistons, traded away by the team over the last six years for Brandon Jennings, Reggie Jackson, Fabricio Oberto and Tayshaun Prince.

Middleton, in particular, could have fit the Pistons' biggest need, small forward. But he, Knight and Slava Kravtsov, who still awaits his multi-million-dollar windfall, were packaged for Jennings in 2013.

Van Gundy acknowledged that Middleton "quite honestly, has become a star."


Wow...thanks for posting that Oracle.  It's shocking.  

I have mixed emotions about the above article.  While I'm irritated that they're no longer in Detroit,  I'm happy those former Pistons got paid, and are on teams that want and appreciate them.  

And I'm sure we'll be able to add Monroe, Afflalo and Stuckey to that list, shortly.

[Oracle]

If you have a panic button, I would keep it close  

Seriously, I'm not panicked, but I am shocked at SVG's amateur night in free agency because I thought we got beyond that!

However, you couldn't be more wrong! Patience is NOT the game... unless you have no other choice!

Having said that, you are 100% right that having the CAP space is a good thing, we shouldn't spend it on scrubs we don't need, which was my major fear!

That's what keeps me up at night, the fact that SVG may do like last year and pick up a bag of scrubs and try to palm them off on us as legit NBA players, close to being LeBron's if they can just get that right break(and some cash... Meeks anyone?)!

After the clown act we've seen so far, I'm surprised you aren't having a similar concern! Oh well, in other news that demonstrates how inept not only Dumars, but Gores was,

Among the players locked up on long-term deals Wednesday: Brandon Knight, five years, $70 million to stay in Phoenix; Khris Middleton, five years, $70 million to stay in Milwaukee; Kyle Singler, five years, $25 million to stay in Oklahoma City; Amir Johnson, two years, $24 million to leave Toronto for Boston; Jonas Jerebko, two years, $10 million to stay in Boston.

That list of players and its $199 million in new contracts is notable for one reason: All five are ex-Pistons, traded away by the team over the last six years for Brandon Jennings, Reggie Jackson, Fabricio Oberto and Tayshaun Prince.

Middleton, in particular, could have fit the Pistons' biggest need, small forward. But he, Knight and Slava Kravtsov, who still awaits his multi-million-dollar windfall, were packaged for Jennings in 2013.

Van Gundy acknowledged that Middleton "quite honestly, has become a star." (Knight is a bigger star, but Middleton was unexpected)

"That one's hard to watch in Detroit," Van Gundy added.

BTW, the Suns are going to look like the Bad Boy Pistons with that vicious 3 guard lineup of Bledsoe, Knight & the rookie Devin Booker, with Chandler at center! Legit contenders if they can land Aldridge, and maybe move one or both of the twins!

Everything will be great. it's totally ok to go into the season with 25 to 30 million in cap space. Guaranteed, somebody will be ready to dump good players. Somebody will not be happy with giving A guy A new contract.


Patience is how you win the game that the Pistons are playing. Free Agents are not knocking down Detroit's door. So now yo have to pimp the game in other ways...... Having major cap money is A win...win for Detroit.


GUARANTEED!!!!!

[Phil-Good]

Everything will be great. it's totally ok to go into the season with 25 to 30 million in cap space. Guaranteed, somebody will be ready to dump good players. Somebody will not be happy with giving A guy A new contract.


Patience is how you win the game that the Pistons are playing. Free Agents are not knocking down Detroit's door. So now yo have to pimp the game in other ways...... Having major cap money is A win...win for Detroit.


GUARANTEED!!!!!

[Oracle]

1. Tyson Chandler signs with the Suns, who finally get some size to go along with great guard play! Now focusing on getting Aldridge to come on board!
   
2. Now that the Lakers have pulled an even bigger stumbling act than SVG, losing out on both Love, and blowing the Aldridge meeting big time, thanks to a poor presentation & Kobe not vibing, are turning up the heat to get Monroe!
   
3. Clippers sign Pierce to a 3 year deal... sorry Wiz!
   
4. Amir is going to Boston
   
5. Splitter goes to Atlanta... same system, different coach, lol.
   

There's likely something I'm missing, but those are the highlights!

Obviously there's more drama to come, but all of our castoffs are getting big paydays while we're nowhere to be found where the real action is!

[Oracle]

Well, SVG got his ass handed to him right out of the gate, another rookie lesson he needs to learn.

Toronto wasn't even a thought to get Carroll, but BAM, they snagged him on day one! SVG brags about being the first on Danny Greens doorstep and the sight of his short fat ass must have scared the sh!t out of him and he went back to SA so fast SVG's head is still spinning!

SVG, shut the f**k up and get your business done before you talk so much about it!

BTW, while I did like Carroll as an addition, I never wanted another 6'5 SG posing as a SF in Green here! Just like I don't have any interest in Draymond Green! Yeah, he could be a decent SF for us, but not at the price he would command, and IMO, he isn't as good as people seem to think!

He's a product of the Golden State system with that great shooting around him, and another system won't make him look as good! Besides, his ONLY interest in us is to get a number higher so that GS will match it, and do we need to be used like that? IMO, nobody else does either, so I don't expect that he'll get many offers!

Like it or not, and he's going to have to like it, GS holds the cards and they likely won't have to pay him the max! So the big question is does he have the courage to pull a Monroe on them and become unrestricted next season?

So here's the question: Does SVG really have a plan B, or will we be stuck, yet again, picking up the scraps and SVG selling them as possible game changers?

[cool breeze]

Reading the article to the right of this page involving Spencer Dinwiddie cements my feeing that Stan Van Gundy is like a breath of fresh air relating to Piston management history. I think that Detroit had about the worst front office anyone could imagine before Van Gundy arrived so perhaps I am giving his staff too much credit.

Few of you knew Spencer Dinwiddie before he was drafted. As one who attended a lot of PAC12 basketball games when Dinwiddie played in college and then having Stan actually draft this guy in the 2nd round was amazing to me. That pick was a complete steal. I was used to Joe Dumars drafting players like Austin Daye where from the get go, I knew that Dumars staff had been asleep at the wheel. Nobody who has put in any work at all makes that stupid pick in the first round or 2nd round. Daye was a meek guy who his coach had to hide on defense. And Daye played in a rather weak conference. Meanwhile, I witnessed Dinwiddie as the leader of a tough Colorado team encouraging his teammates during timeouts when his team was down and then come out on the floor and do something amazing that few fans could comprehend. Arizona coaches feared what Dinwiddie might do at the end of games to steal a win. He was so confident looking on the floor. He looked so calm. Spencer could drive extremely well, make a high pressure 3 point shot with two defensive players on him, come out of nowhere to block a shot at the rim. You name it, Spencer did it. His team was dead meat when he went down with the ACL much like our Pistons were when Joe traded Billups for Iverson. Dinwiddie was much more than a stat guy. He was the leader or the glue guy who everyone counted on in the clutch. And nobody saw what I saw but Stan Van Gundy's staff on draft day. Now Spencer just needs to get minutes and establish that confidence he had in college and we have a leader.

Van Gundy also saw something special in Stanley Johnson. This guy is another player who has that special heart of a lion. He needs to win. He has to win. His high school coach said, Stanley we need you to play center. Stan played center and developed the ability to beat the hell out of other centers much bigger than he was. Coach said Stanley we need you to play power forward, center and small forward. On and on it goes where Johnson ended up playing every position including point guard at his coaches request through 4 years. And every season Johnson's team ended up winning the State Championship in Cal. How hard is that to do? Almost impossible says his coach. His lone college season was a disappointment because his team failed to win the championship. He was their leading scorer yet deferred to his older teammates much of the time. Nobody has an easy transition to the NBA especially players at the skill positions. But Van Gundy knows that he must bring in players who have a certain mindset like Dinwiddie and Johnson both were born with.

Drummond doesnt have that same history prior to arriving in the NBA. 't seems that Drummond is now driven to become a better player. Does he have the same mindset that Dinwiddie and Johnson has shown in the past? He really threw away his only year as a college player. He didn't seem to fit in well or failed to find himself that year maybe because the coach he counted on was not available to coach him. But one can hope that Andre looks back at that year and uses it as a motivation tool now. Drummond is capable of becoming an incredible basketball player. He is now working on his conditioning which is something few big men ever seem to do over the summer months.That is outstanding Andre. Way to go!

Who is coming to ride this train up to the top? Free agents better start lining up. The Pistons fortune is rising. The players need more fans to buy tickets. Please buy tickets Piston fans. I can't wait until I can move back to Michigan to support this team.

[merc]

Whoever is in charge of the news feed should remove the bogus source saying Pistons offered 90 mill for Green... not even possible.

[lemonpen]

........................READY..................................................AIM.....................................


             PLAN A

[lemonpen]

Here Are All the 2015 NBA Summer League Rosters

It isn't quite complete.

[Sponsored content]