Message From The Josh Smith Fan Club

[WTF]

KISS JOSH'S Black Crusty Ass!!!!!

Really media this is all you got this summer is to take Josh's comment out of contexts and run this BS story over and over? Seriously D-Wade all but threaten to sign elsewhere and forces Miami into a 20 million one season deal, but somehow Josh is a turd for suggesting that 6.9 million is enough to support his family. Perhaps it's not considering he was just making 14 million a season just last season and the season before and 6.9 is a serious pay cut from 14 million.

Must it always be some personal dislike **** that has to come in play with Josh that when he speaks it has to get twisted and turned into something else or that the rules become different. Again the guy took less money leaving the Rockets for the Clippers and was asked a question as to why would he do that and not get more. He said of "course he wants more money who wouldn't he has a family to feed" and the **** gets turned into something else as if the guy was sitting there demanding more money when it's clear he wasn't.

I'm sure Josh is doing well for himself and his family is just fine financially but even the average American would like more money from doing his/hers job. Truth is whoever got Josh was getting him on the cheap this season and Josh was offered more than the 6.9 he's getting this season from the Clippers and Pistons. If he was truly worrying about the money and needing to feed his family he would have sign elsewhere as he stated he had several offers but was more concerned with fit and that he could get his money next season.

Several players have went the route of Josh and it's okay for them but not Josh. West turned down 10.9 to play for vets minimum, Moose took a QO oppose to signing a long term deal with Pistons last season and so on. Josh somehow offended the universe with his comment so fu@k the media and fans that want to blast Josh. You don't hear crap about other players like with Wade getting 20 million for one season. Lebron opting out for more money, Kobe not relinquishing a dime of his salary to help his team like a Duncan, or Melo bitch-moaning about the contract he signed. But Josh say of course I want more money and family he 's now news worthy. KISS JOSH'S ASS!!!!!

[Oracle]

Guys...you know the first rule of Detroit Pistons Talk Form is to never discuss politics. - Or Religion   The good thing about our discussion was that it remained civil, and we need to keep it that way.


"Can, or will, someone please explain to me the major differences between Quincy Miller and Adonis Thomas? For two 22 year olds, coming from the D-League, Thomas seems to be getting a hell of a lot more love than Miller ever did on this forum, but their D-League production was a tremendously different story."

I don't think there are many differences between Miller and Thomas or the love they've been receiving from this forum.  My position on both players is that yes, they both could have made the roster as a 3rd string forwards who would probably not have dressed for games, or they both could get cut for more experienced or promising forwards like Granger or Bullock.

IMO, there is a difference between the two and it's size! I'm more in favor of having a 6'10 SF than yet another 6'6 guy.

BTW, Thomas measured 6'5 without shoes recently, and supposedly has lost weight down to 225lbs.

Having said that, neither would be expected to get many minutes, as you said, so it's not like SVG made any big mistake.

[Murph]

Guys...you know the first rule of Detroit Pistons Talk Form is to never discuss politics.


"Can, or will, someone please explain to me the major differences between Quincy Miller and Adonis Thomas? For two 22 year olds, coming from the D-League, Thomas seems to be getting a hell of a lot more love than Miller ever did on this forum, but their D-League production was a tremendously different story."

I don't think there are many differences between Miller and Thomas or the love they've been receiving from this forum. My position on both players is that yes, they both could have made the roster as a 3rd string forwards who would probably not have dressed for games, or they both could get cut for more experienced or promising forwards like Granger or Bullock.

[WTF]

1. Don the more I read the more and more crazier this conversation bets. Don cliamte change and global warming is real, there is no debate on the validaty of it being real. 99% of the experts all agree on global warming and climate change.

2. Secondly Don the military isn't on one accord, racism, and rape runs rampant throughout the military. I spent time in the most racist part of the military the US Navy. I witness it first hand. Now you can add homo-phobia to the list.

3. Don Oracle is correct in that it is far more things worse going on not to say the case you pointed out isn't tragic. But somehow you're over stating the issue like you were talking about Singler :-)

4.You say you don't subscribed to a political party but you rant like a Tea Party member, fall on deaf ears like a Republican and retreat to that bubble truth find a hard time penatrating. Yet some of your comments suggest a hint of democratic socialism ;-). Don't fret Socialism is a good thing with the right Dictator.

5, Don if you were truly into fact finding then you would make a majority of the comments you have in your past few postings. Climate Change is real and Obama not the blame and there are some horrible things far worse than you're feeling victimized from. Like No Regulation

[Oracle]

Wow Don, you actually have the problem with America communicating on full display... you either don't listen to what people say to you, or you simply ignore it, I can't figure out which. You also don't deal in facts, but some made up feelings about isolated incidents.

The girl you're talking about is sad, but how often does that happen? Are we to make laws or decisions based on a single case? There are worse things happening in America that happen a hell of a lot more frequently, but somehow this outlier of a case has you riled up, but not the other more horrid things!

Oracle you have made a judgment based on pure fiction about what the goals of republicans might be and if they are intelligent and suspect devious thoughts run their lives. - Don

Don, you should know me better, and you should verify things before you make statements like that.
1. I'm not dealing in fiction, I took that information from republican election promises, and it's easily verified!
2. I NEVER said anything about republicans and intelligence... you said that! How do you not see what you say and confuse it with what I say? I dealt in FACTS about education, you confused education with intelligence.
3. You keep defending the republicans for some reason when they're wrong, which suggests that you believe the stuff they're shoveling, and I was challenging you to not believe what people say and believe what they do.

Both parties need to be held accountable to serve the people, and taking sides blindly the way you do is the real problem!

You say I'm a victim, but the difference is I'm not claiming I'm a victim, you are, and in republican world, you're not supposed to do that. In their world nobody is a victim, that's democrat stuff, which is dumb, but I like to judge people by their own rules!

[cool breeze]

I think you misunderstood my comment on education.

Lack of a college degree doesn't mean people are dumb. College delivers knowledge not intelligence, anybody can be intelligent, college or not!

My point was that if you have to compete, and everybody has basically the same qualifications, the competition gets harder!

That means that people that feel "Entitled" to get jobs are going to lose in a fair system, and the attraction of the republican party is that they hope that they will keep the system unfair so that they can get all of the available jobs!

Of course if the Reagan vision of unlimited growth and rising tides myth was ever true, this wouldn't be an issue, but that theory is so full of holes that those rising boats have long sunk!

Finally let me ask you this: How is it possible to have free market capitalism without competition?

We have never had competition in the United States, many different groups were excluded from competing at one time or another(they thought Greek people were odd with strange customs). Just remember, this is like the game monopoly, the first wealth was land based! You don't need any special brains or skills to own land, but if you're excluded from owning it, every time you pass go, they quickly take your 200 bucks, and you never build wealth!

Where I come from, they don't call that competition, they call it cheating!

Of course, personal responsibility would require that you make amends for that, but...

Oracle and Wisefan how in hell did we go from my first response to Murph's post? My post might have been a stretch but did include the incredible tragedy of a beautiful young girl walking on a pier in San Francisco holding hands with her father suddenly being struck with a bullet in the head from a seven time convicted felon who had been deported 5 times. He was part of the catch and release program sanctioned by our President and Commander in Chief and implemented by the political leaders of San Francisco and the State of California. Those political elected officials directly caused her death through their policies and I thought that might be important to tell the posters because that could have been one of our children if we had been visiting in beautiful San Francisco. This "sanctuary city" was not a sanctuary for this great person who's last words were "help me Daddy". I know of another beautiful young 16 year old honor student and great athlete who was also gunned down by another illegal felon while celebrating her birthday in Tucson around two years ago. Another illegal felon was released to roam the streets here in Tucson due to our leftist leaning local government. Her parents who gained citizenship the hard way and questioned how this could have happened. How could our political leaders fail the now hundreds of families? But this is not important to you somehow. We must look at the "GREATER GOOD". Sorry for bringing up another story as well as the first one because somehow both you and others now believe I am part of some sort of conspiracy. Somehow I am now a Tea Party member or follower. No sorry that label doesn't fit me. I have no relative, friend nor do I even know one Tea Party member. But when Congresswomen Gabby Giffords was shot and others murdered at a political rally here in Tucson the national news media and our own political leaders immediately jumped to the conclusion that the killer must have been a Tea Party member. Who are the people who belong to the Tea Party? Why are they now thought of as terrorist? Who told you that Tea Party people are people you must fear? From what I hear, Tea Party people are usually law abiding citizens many who own small businesses and employ others. Maybe they disagree with your supreme leaders too much. They must be punished and anyone who makes a critical statement against authority in power must be a Tea Party member who also must be punished and ridiculed. I am not a victim. You are the victims of propaganda. I feel sorry for you. You quote the Greeks and "Free Markets" While I only brought up a unlucky girl that didn't have to die along with the thousands of US troops that were marched off to the Soviet Union after WW2 with the blessings of two of our Presidents each from different political parties. I guess that is not important either but it is to those families that suffered the loss and I care about that and want an accounting and more education as to how that could have happened.

What I want is a more rational world where we can all think as individuals and not as group thinkers. You brought up the Greeks so I will add my two cents which I know will mean nothing because it doesn't fit the current popular group thought. While some are worried about "global warming" and now "climate change" both complicated issues where even the smartest scientists debate what is going on I worry about hatred that is developing between GROUPS in America. I can use my own logic and reason to establish the premise what the hell is new about climate change? There has always been climate change and someday the Earth will implode or explode and will not longer exist because of mother nature or human insanity such as Iran getting the Nukes. The question is what limitations should the "STATE" place on our individual freedoms in their attempt to stop the "change"? As many scientists who are not getting grant money point out if you look at a football field where the field of play has 100 yards from end to end and then relate the percentage of the football field to our climate, at best after 100s of trillions of dollars have been spent and taxes levied to pay that bill and friends of our elected leaders get richer, only around seven to 10 yards would be affected. More than 90% of CO2 described enemy is non human caused. So while the "believers" somehow feel they must be classified as believers and perhaps have the need to sort out and punish all alleged non believers, the march goes on while more power and control goes to the STATE run by people who will make decisions for the "collective". This is a critical principle according to many past (Hitler-Salin etc) leaders to current day leaders throughout the world who want their followers to embrace the teachings of Plato. The mind of the common individual is inadequate. No form of "GOOD" can be known by the use of reason or logic for common individuals. Individuals left alone are evil and "selfish". They must be brought into a group to ever achieve "GOOD" where our leaders will be responsible for determining what "GOOD" means. Or they must be eliminated by those chosen who know much more than we do. Yes Plato is the beloved Father of "collectivism in the West. It took centuries and a brain-stopping chain of events of falsehoods to bring people into Hitler worship. Marxist like to point out how different they are to Nazism. The Nazis did not advocate public ownership of the means of production. but they did demand that the government oversee and run the nation's economy. The issue of legal ownership is secondary. What counts is the issue of "total control". Private citizens could hold titles to property as long as the STATE reserved to itself the right to "REGULATE" the use of their property. The battle cry in America today is "we need more regulation" to make things fair. In Germany under Nazi socialism the owner held was a meaningless deed that held no rights to the owner. Under communism there is collective ownership of property. Under Nazism, there is the same collective ownership. Under Hitler every social group was exploited and drained much like the USSR leaders did under communism through "regulation for the common GOOD". Now how can we stupid common people who do not run things not like the word "GOOD"? "To be a socialist" says Goebbels, "is to submit the I to the thou-socialism is sacrificing the individual to the whole". Somehow the age of enlightenment went out the window and Germany again entered the Dark ages. Are we approaching entry back into the Dark Ages. "Are you a free market" man? Are you "a Tea Party member"? Do you believe in climate change? All of those thoughts were created to create a higher emotional bond with "GROUP THINKING" for the benefit of who? Why can't we as individuals respect each other as individuals without relying on our GROUP to think for us? Why can't we take each individual situation or each person we encounter and use our own logic and reason to determine real truth about that individual situation or person? Why don't we listen to opposing thought without placing a damaging condemning labels though programmed created emotion? Our country is in big trouble. There is a big divide. And or current administration seems to enjoy bringing attention to that divide and creating more drama while gangs roam from city to city creating another riot while ruining the lives of minority hard working people who have done things the right way in life.

Oracle you have made a judgment based on pure fiction about what the goals of republicans might be and if they are intelligent and suspect devious thoughts run their lives. Arn't folks who decided to join that party actually individuals who all come from different situations and backgrounds? What about Ben Carson? We could go to the democrats and how republicans make up crap about members of that party lumping them all in together as Jim Jones like followers who long to drink the cool aid.

Somehow when a group of men enter a combat situation all of that bull crap goes out the window. All that politically created nonsense goes out the window. That is where Aristotle takes over and men and women survive or die based on how they use their individual skills and apply those skills looking closing at the specific situation using logic and reason to make small individual decisions in a short period of time. That is real life not life where one can sit back and make judgments and beat your chest as to deciding that someone who might not think like you must be a "victim" or a "Tea Party" member. For me the subject is closed and I must focus on preparation for my next marathon and will take a break from this forum. Good luck to all. And go Pistons!

[Oracle]

Can, or will, someone please explain to me the major differences between Quincy Miller and Adonis Thomas? For two 22 year olds, coming from the D-League, Thomas seems to be getting a hell of a lot more love than Miller ever did on this forum, but their D-League production was a tremendously different story. Just saying. - IMO, QM is the better prospect/fit for us, but for whatever reason, SVG didn't see it that way, and I thought the way he handled dumping him was a bit cold!

I totally agree with you Wise, people need to shut the hell up about Josh Smith, if they can't say something decent about him, he got a raw deal from the media and some mislead fans, from the day he was signed by Detroit. No one seems to talk about how well he does everyplace he plays, but he "couldn't" perform in Detroit...what was the problem? IMHO it was the lazy ass center, we had, who was being played out of position (PF) that made the entire team look like sh!t and the record reflects that. I wish Monroe well in Milwaukee, but I'm also playing a wait & see game to judge how that turns out; we saw what Josh meant to Houston, now let's see what the Moose will mean to the Bucks' - Seriously DX? Come on, have you totally lost your sense of humor??? Josh made a stupid statement, who cares what he really meant, it's funny as hell, and legally allows us to make jokes! BTW, the playoffs are over, but during the playoffs, this board was a Josh Smith love fest, so your outrage is very misplaced.

Caitlyn Jenner? How long before Whoopie Goldberg announces she's really a centaur in a woman's body and can't wait to phugue a man, or Oprah confesses to be have always felt like a minotaur and now that she has the money for the necessary surgery, she'll be mooing soon. I'm living in a world that I don't begin to understand...yesterday it was the minority legislating laws for the majority to except some bullsh!t that should've been kept in the closet and today the drum is being beat for surgical reconfiguration. Sheesh. - Jenner has a new reality show that I won't be watching, but it's all about the money! I imagine barf bag sales should go through the roof! 

[lemonpen]

He'll only get about $7M, and fears that his family will have to struggle... shades of Latrell Sprewell!

At first I was turned off by his comment.  But, later on I found myself thinking "well yeah, probably so".

Nobody spends my freakin income like freakin my family, bless their hearts.      

I think it's (the comment) taken out of context considering Josh took less money going to the Clippers.  When I read it my first response was Oh No! but upon further thinking about it it had nothing to do with being paid since he's already on the books with us, and the Clips and Rockets wasn't his only option.  

Josh clearly stated it was about fit and comfort that swayed his decision to got to LA, that and winning.

ESPN"]FOR JOSH SMITH, $6.9 MILLION ISN'T ENOUGH
Smith will make $1.5M from the Clippers this season, and will also get a reported $5.4M annually through 2020 from Detroit -- but wants more: "At the end of the day I do have a family. So it is going to be a little harder on me this year. But I'm going to push through it and try to do something long term after this year."

Josh was responding to a question about taking less with signing with the Clippers and it wasn't some rant about being under paid or demanding more money.  He was simply explaining the scenario in which he took that lesser deal and was simply saying that of course who doesn't want more money he has a family to support.  This wasn't a "Sprewell Moment" Josh was having and it's unfair for fans and the media to treat it that way.  This is just more Josh bashing and trashing just because.

I wonder if Josh made the comment in "Tounge -In-Cheek" fashion and the writer simply didn't know Smoove well enough to understand that he was just "Joshing".

[deusXango]

Can, or will, someone please explain to me the major differences between Quincy Miller and Adonis Thomas? For two 22 year olds, coming from the D-League, Thomas seems to be getting a hell of a lot more love than Miller ever did on this forum, but their D-League production was a tremendously different story. Just saying.

I totally agree with you Wise, people need to shut the hell up about Josh Smith, if they can't say something decent about him, he got a raw deal from the media and some mislead fans, from the day he was signed by Detroit. No one seems to talk about how well he does everyplace he plays, but he "couldn't" perform in Detroit...what was the problem? IMHO it was the lazy ass center, we had, who was being played out of position (PF) that made the entire team look like sh!t and the record reflects that. I wish Monroe well in Milwaukee, but I'm also playing a wait & see game to judge how that turns out; we saw what Josh meant to Houston, now let's see what the Moose will mean to the Bucks'

Caitlyn Jenner? How long before Whoopie Goldberg announces she's really a centaur in a woman's body and can't wait to phugue a man, or Oprah confesses to be have always felt like a minotaur and now that she has the money for the necessary surgery, she'll be mooing soon. I'm living in a world that I don't begin to understand...yesterday it was the minority legislating laws for the majority to except some bullsh!t that should've been kept in the closet and today the drum is being beat for surgical reconfiguration. Sheesh.

[WTF]

He'll only get about $7M, and fears that his family will have to struggle... shades of Latrell Sprewell!

At first I was turned off by his comment.  But, later on I found myself thinking "well yeah, probably so".

Nobody spends my freakin income like freakin my family, bless their hearts.      

I think it's (the comment) taken out of context considering Josh took less money going to the Clippers.  When I read it my first response was Oh No! but upon further thinking about it it had nothing to do with being paid since he's already on the books with us, and the Clips and Rockets wasn't his only option.  

Josh clearly stated it was about fit and comfort that swayed his decision to got to LA, that and winning.

FOR JOSH SMITH, $6.9 MILLION ISN'T ENOUGH
Smith will make $1.5M from the Clippers this season, and will also get a reported $5.4M annually through 2020 from Detroit -- but wants more: "At the end of the day I do have a family. So it is going to be a little harder on me this year. But I'm going to push through it and try to do something long term after this year."

Josh was responding to a question about taking less with signing with the Clippers and it wasn't some rant about being under paid or demanding more money.  He was simply explaining the scenario in which he took that lesser deal and was simply saying that of course who doesn't want more money he has a family to support.  This wasn't a "Sprewell Moment" Josh was having and it's unfair for fans and the media to treat it that way.  This is just more Josh bashing and trashing just because.

[lemonpen]

He'll only get about $7M, and fears that his family will have to struggle... shades of Latrell Sprewell!

At first I was turned off by his comment.  But, later on I found myself thinking "well yeah, probably so".

Nobody spends my freakin income like my freakin family, bless their hearts.  

[Murph]

Are we sure Adonis Thomas is going to make the 15 man roster? I know the Pistons just signed him to a partially guaranteed contract, but it wasn't for much money. Could it be that Pistons are rewarding Thomas for all his hard work in the D-League over the last two years, but still aren't guaranteeing him a roster spot?

Don't get me wrong, I like Thomas and his story. I mean you've got to admire any guy who tries to work his way into the NBA through the D-League. That's a tough way to go. But is he really going to help the Pistons more than a healthy Danny Granger or Reggie Bullock?

This reminds me a little of the Will Bynum situation. Joe loved Bynum because he was an undrafted underdog type player who hustled and worked hard, and eventually worked his way into the NBA. It was a great story, but ultimately Bynum provided little help to the Pistons on the NBA level.

Stay tuned on Thomas.

[WTF]

Although I did hope Thomas would make the team, I frankly didn't think he had a shot!

It's looking like we're likely only keeping Morris from the Phoenix trade, which doesn't bother me, and rolling with Thomas and Hilliard. When you look at who's out, it begins to make some sense, Martin, Bullock & Granger have different but not so good issues that make a 22 year old up and comer a lot more attractive on a young team!

One thing about Thomas is that he's like Stanley, he's a bruiser at 240lbs, but he can shoot and assist! He looked decent in Summer League, but he may have a nice upside!

I just don't understand this love affair with these 6'6/6'7 guys that SVG has! Maybe a holdover from his pint sized PG days

I'm not sure if SVG is caught up in some new trend type BS of wanting to be like GS

[Fennis Dembo]

I just saw Josh Smith standing in front of the MGM Grand Detroit Casino with a bucket and a large sign that read,  "Latrell Sprewell was right.  I can barely feed my family on $6.9 million.  Nearly destitute.   Cash, checks , spare change, credit cards, debit cards, free travel miles, cigarettes, hard liquor, and Ramen Noodles accepted. Give generously. Will work for NBA maximum."

[Oracle]

Although I did hope Thomas would make the team, I frankly didn't think he had a shot!

It's looking like we're likely only keeping Morris from the Phoenix trade, which doesn't bother me, and rolling with Thomas and Hilliard. When you look at who's out, it begins to make some sense, Martin, Bullock & Granger have different but not so good issues that make a 22 year old up and comer a lot more attractive on a young team!

One thing about Thomas is that he's like Stanley, he's a bruiser at 240lbs, but he can shoot and assist! He looked decent in Summer League, but he may have a nice upside!

I just don't understand this love affair with these 6'6/6'7 guys that SVG has! Maybe a holdover from his pint sized PG days

[Oracle]

I think you misunderstood my comment on education.

Lack of a college degree doesn't mean people are dumb. College delivers knowledge not intelligence, anybody can be intelligent, college or not!

My point was that if you have to compete, and everybody has basically the same qualifications, the competition gets harder!

That means that people that feel "Entitled" to get jobs are going to lose in a fair system, and the attraction of the republican party is that they hope that they will keep the system unfair so that they can get all of the available jobs!

Of course if the Reagan vision of unlimited growth and rising tides myth was ever true, this wouldn't be an issue, but that theory is so full of holes that those rising boats have long sunk!

Finally let me ask you this: How is it possible to have free market capitalism without competition?

We have never had competition in the United States, many different groups were excluded from competing at one time or another(they thought Greek people were odd with strange customs). Just remember, this is like the game monopoly, the first wealth was land based! You don't need any special brains or skills to own land, but if you're excluded from owning it, every time you pass go, they quickly take your 200 bucks, and you never build wealth!

Where I come from, they don't call that competition, they call it cheating!

Of course, personal responsibility would require that you make amends for that, but...

[WTF]

I kind of feel sorry for you, your post is a post of a man that feels he's the victim of forces inside and outside of his country, and believes that the people that want what he wants will help him, but can't see that they're lying to him!

You seriously need to stop believing what people say and believe what they do and the results they get! You make crazy statements like if the people could vote for healthcare... WHAT???

America DID vote for Obama Care, and it CRUSHED the opposition, it's called the Election or 2012! America elected this man TWICE, knowing exactly what he wanted to do, and here's my opinion!

I believe that ANY president elected by the people should not have to deal with a congress blocking the will of the American people, no matter what party he's from... PERIOD! They can object to whatever they don't like, but they should work to help shape the programs and policies the President wants and that he ran on.

BTW, any party that has to compete by limiting and not expanding the vote is automatically a loser in my opinion.

You're failing to grasp the purpose of liberal & conservative thinking! Liberals are progressives, they look to move everything forward, conservatives look to slow progress and keep things the same to consolidate the gains. Both schools of thought are needed at different times, there should be no war of ideology.

So why is there one? Well, 70-75 percent of the Republican base is non-college educated! If everyone has a HS diploma and the Republican base can't cheat to get the jobs they're used to getting and have to compete with minorities, they wind up voting for people to maintain the old ways! But this is America and we're not supposed to be afraid of competing, but we are, and that's the real issue on the ballot... as always follow the money!

BTW, the Constitution is always being brought up, and it's the weakest document we have! If I jaywalk and get a ticket and don't pay it, I could go to jail! If you break the Constitution, even for hundreds of years, there is no fine, no punishment, NOTHING! The most that happens is they ask you to stop!

We have Cops taking away peoples constitutional rights and they get desk duty... that's a lot more concerning than communist boogie men popping up, who if they were as good as you seem to think they are, should have taken over years ago! Or at a very minimum, have used our "secrets" to take over the world, or enact gay marriage in their country

Don you say you're not a component to any political party but you speak like a true Tea Party Republican. Geesh! Willies!

Don I too served my country but not with benefit of rose color glasses where every thing is a conspiracy but mainly lies and bullshit as well.

I'm like Oracle and kind of feel sorry for you as well you have a real stank attitude toward somethings most Americans agreed on. If you're not a victim you're sure sounding the part of one.

Freedom we have it in a limited capacity, we follow rules that are enforced through hypocricies of wealth, race, politcal agendas, yet oppose to being ruled by one we choose to be ruled by many who can't agree on something as simple as climate change.

Illegals aren't stealing your jobs, money, place in line at the grocer's or doctor office. What I find funny is that why moan about who's in line ahead of us and then not moan about the outrages cost of seeing that doctor who prescribe a medication you can't afford and your insurance company won't fully cover.

DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!

[Oracle]

I totally agree that I don't know everything, so I'm always open to someone laying new facts on me and I reserve the right to change my opinion based on new information. If looking like a fool is what people call changing you mind in the face of new information, then I'm the biggest fool out there!

But I wish you wouldn't take statements to such extremes.

According to what you wrote, if a person running for President wins the election then that person should be able to operate as a dictator as long as that person belongs to your party of choice.

That's not even close to what I said! I said I don't care what party the President is from, and how is it possible that he can be dictator, he was elected by the majority of the people! If you don't help him implement his programs and policies, it's you that's against the American people. That doesn't mean doing everything his way, but it does mean negotiation to get things done!

So I had a problem with the Democrats not letting Bush implement what he wanted, and I have a problem with republicans bothering Obama. It's quite simple: Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way, and these days, the republicans aren't doing either.

"But how do you get around the veto?" - Don

Easy... be a MAN!!! First off, how do they know the president will veto something if they never send anything? Real men would FORCE the president to veto legislation because it accomplishes two things! It puts forth their vision of where they want to take us, and two, it makes it clear to Americans where he stands.

Finally Don, you do appear to be playing the victim role, as are the republicans! When you control both houses of congress, you simply can't be complaining and not doing anything at the same time! How that makes any sense to you is astounding!

So as I said, you have a lot of outrage, but none at the people that say so much and never do anything!
1. Outlaw Abortion - not done
2. A better healthcare system - not even on the drawing board... they LIED!
3. Moral principles - Can't even keep their own pants zipped up
4. Personal responsibility - Are you kidding, name me one...
5. Repeal health care bill - Losers
6. Energy & infrastructure - Nothing
7. Put bills online 3 days before a vote - Didn't do it
8. Block funding for healthcare - A joke

That's all I can think of, and even if some of that is a heavy lift, fine, then don't flap your gums promising to do them! If you know you can't, and won't try in some cases to do things, the saying you will is outright lying, full blown incompetence or both!

[Oracle]

I know that there are many Piston fans who thought Kyle Singler was part of the problem related to losing so many games and were happy once he was traded. Kyle shot the 3 ball at over 40% for the Pistons if I recall. It seems that the Thunder still like him and I am happy for this guy who now will be making 5 mil for the next 5 years. He is a reliable hard working serious minded basketball player. The Thunder fans love and appreciate him. Good luck and congratulations Kyle! Now please don't make a winning shot against your old team.

I know Josh couldn't feed his family on 5M, but Singler is a bit more thrifty, and can squeak by! This contract is WELL deserved, and hopefully we can meet Singler in the finals one day!

[cool breeze]

I know that there are many Piston fans who thought Kyle Singler was part of the problem related to losing so many games and were happy once he was traded. Kyle shot the 3 ball at over 40% for the Pistons if I recall. It seems that the Thunder still like him and I am happy for this guy who now will be making 5 mil for the next 5 years. He is a reliable hard working serious minded basketball player. The Thunder fans love and appreciate him. Good luck and congratulations Kyle! Now please don't make a winning shot against your old team.

[cool breeze]

I kind of feel sorry for you, your post is a post of a man that feels he's the victim of forces inside and outside of his country, and believes that the people that want what he wants will help him, but can't see that they're lying to him!

You seriously need to stop believing what people say and believe what they do and the results they get! You make crazy statements like if the people could vote for healthcare... WHAT???

America DID vote for Obama Care, and it CRUSHED the opposition, it's called the Election or 2012! America elected this man TWICE, knowing exactly what he wanted to do, and here's my opinion!

I believe that ANY president elected by the people should not have to deal with a congress blocking the will of the American people, no matter what party he's from... PERIOD! They can object to whatever they don't like, but they should work to help shape the programs and policies the President wants and that he ran on.

BTW, any party that has to compete by limiting and not expanding the vote is automatically a loser in my opinion.

You're failing to grasp the purpose of liberal & conservative thinking! Liberals are progressives, they look to move everything forward, conservatives look to slow progress and keep things the same to consolidate the gains. Both schools of thought are needed at different times, there should be no war of ideology.

So why is there one? Well, 70-75 percent of the Republican base is non-college educated! If everyone has a HS diploma and the Republican base can't cheat to get the jobs they're used to getting and have to compete with minorities, they wind up voting for people to maintain the old ways! But this is America and we're not supposed to be afraid of competing, but we are, and that's the real issue on the ballot... as always follow the money!

BTW, the Constitution is always being brought up, and it's the weakest document we have! If I jaywalk and get a ticket and don't pay it, I could go to jail! If you break the Constitution, even for hundreds of years, there is no fine, no punishment, NOTHING! The most that happens is they ask you to stop!

We have Cops taking away peoples constitutional rights and they get desk duty... that's a lot more concerning than communist boogie men popping up, who if they were as good as you seem to think they are, should have taken over years ago! Or at a very minimum, have used our "secrets" to take over the world, or enact gay marriage in their country

I am not a victim Oracle. I am a former combat veteran who served his country right or wrong. I try to live my life the right way and feel that I have an obligation to learn the facts about our real history. You could learn the facts as well. Please read "Lagacy of Ashes" written by Tim Weiner who is no conserative. This is a non fiction book Oracle. You can get a lot of facts by just reading declassified information on the CIA web site or the Library of Congress so you might be able to form a more accurate opinion relating to the past and then attempt to sort out what is going on in today's world. Then think some a re evaluate who you want to support in the current day. According to what you wrote, if a person running for President wins the election then that person should be able to operate as a dictator as long as that person belongs to your party of choice. We are supposed to operate a a constitutional republic where have a system of checks and balances to prevent the exact thing you believe should be the norm. And I didn't know that the Republicans were composed of ignorant uneducated people. I guess the people who supported Abe Lincoln might have been uneducated. And is it your feeling that being a progressive is always a good thing for everyone? Hitler was progressive and Stalin was progressive. Both had blanket power to impose their will on their citizens. And as for our constitution which many progressives want to abolish, we do have the Bill of Rights that is unusual and not the norm for most governments. The Bill of Rights was created to protect citizens from the exact thing you believe in Oracle. You win the election and get the vote out and you rule with absolute authority. Such a foolhardy thought it is if one would bother to read what insane things our former presidents from both parties have done in the past. You can only see the future by knowing the past. But history repeats itself again and again which shows us that few in charge bother to study the past or bother to learn about how people in other nations think before we make deals like the deals FDR made with Stalin in WW2. Eisenhower came after Truman who obtained his foreign policy strategy after reading the New york Times. Eisenhower decimated the military at a time when the Soviet Union was saying they would bury us. Presidents from two different parties and all put our country in danger. So I am fine with the balance of power idea our founding fathers created even though the structure is weakening. Blind faith in one political party or the other is the biggest mistake any individual can make. If you have served in the military and have been asked to go into a building where you have received opposing fire but have as the rules of engagement the rule that you cannot fire back even though you have seen your best buddy shot in the head, then that soldier will know what I know. According to the politically correct rules of engagement created by this administration and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, you cannot return fire unless you are 100% sure that no civilian might be hiding in that house. But you are ordered to go into the house Oracle. Would you want to follow that order? Is there any wonder that our soldiers are coming back with PTSD? And this President decided to make a mockery of the entire concept that a President should be considered the commander in chief when he decided to trade one American Deserter for 5 mass murderers. Soldiers died trying to recover this deserter and soldiers died capturing the prisoners who were released. This is much like the catch and release program created by those progressives you support who run the Free Zone Cities of America. Again, the President's first priority is to protect our country and enforce the laws. I voted for this President in his first election knew that I had made a big mistake real soon. So in your world, the Free Zone Cities. open borders, releasing billions of dollars to a known terrorist country is something that the voters wanted and Congress should get out of the way of progressive thought? If so, according to the stats you provided, how in hell could those voters who voted for Obama a 2nd time be more educated than the faithful republicans who voted against him?

You are not the first friend that I have debated who came from republican, democratic or libertarian bible study groups. When the party becomes a religion for people who cannot see beyond their party, then our country is in trouble. We are in trouble now and that is not the way things used to be. Blind faith is the biggest danger. And most soldiers do not believe in blind faith at least after one tour of duty in a combat zone where the politicians create a policy that could create many soldiers deaths. And those leaders never are ever held to account for those policies. That is what I want for "CHANGE". That is what I call progressive thought.

But today we must pause and give a shout out to poor Josh Smith who will have to tighten his belt next year while playing for the Clippers.

[Oracle]

He'll only get about $7M, and fears that his family will have to struggle... shades of Latrell Sprewell!

[Oracle]

I kind of feel sorry for you, your post is a post of a man that feels he's the victim of forces inside and outside of his country, and believes that the people that want what he wants will help him, but can't see that they're lying to him!

You seriously need to stop believing what people say and believe what they do and the results they get! You make crazy statements like if the people could vote for healthcare... WHAT???

America DID vote for Obama Care, and it CRUSHED the opposition, it's called the Election or 2012! America elected this man TWICE, knowing exactly what he wanted to do, and here's my opinion!

I believe that ANY president elected by the people should not have to deal with a congress blocking the will of the American people, no matter what party he's from... PERIOD! They can object to whatever they don't like, but they should work to help shape the programs and policies the President wants and that he ran on.

BTW, any party that has to compete by limiting and not expanding the vote is automatically a loser in my opinion.

You're failing to grasp the purpose of liberal & conservative thinking! Liberals are progressives, they look to move everything forward, conservatives look to slow progress and keep things the same to consolidate the gains. Both schools of thought are needed at different times, there should be no war of ideology.

So why is there one? Well, 70-75 percent of the Republican base is non-college educated! If everyone has a HS diploma and the Republican base can't cheat to get the jobs they're used to getting and have to compete with minorities, they wind up voting for people to maintain the old ways! But this is America and we're not supposed to be afraid of competing, but we are, and that's the real issue on the ballot... as always follow the money!

BTW, the Constitution is always being brought up, and it's the weakest document we have! If I jaywalk and get a ticket and don't pay it, I could go to jail! If you break the Constitution, even for hundreds of years, there is no fine, no punishment, NOTHING! The most that happens is they ask you to stop!

We have Cops taking away peoples constitutional rights and they get desk duty... that's a lot more concerning than communist boogie men popping up, who if they were as good as you seem to think they are, should have taken over years ago! Or at a very minimum, have used our "secrets" to take over the world, or enact gay marriage in their country

[cool breeze]

I said,

You need to be outraged that we don't go after the real criminals that hired the illegals, not about a President who can't get congress to act on reform, not that I think the they ever reform, just kick the can down the road so you can blame the next guy!

Don, you need to focus and stop looking at symptoms of problems and get to the real problem, but from your answer, it appears you simply only want to focus on the guy that Ronald Reagan & Bill Clinton left to fix the problem.

Nothing you can say or think can change the FACTS... the President can't fix this problem, it's congress that needs to do it, and if you can't see that you're too deep in the bubble to see reality!

I agree the liberals don't want to fix it except to let everybody stay, but the Republicans are 10 times worse, and here's why!

At least the liberals tell you what they want to do and they do it, the conservatives tell you what they want to do and when they get the power, they do absolutely NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING! Unless you call blanket amnesty like Reagan did something!

So yeah, it's stupid for you to blame the President, you hear it on TV, so you believe it must be true! If the Republicans really wanted to do something, they control both houses of congress, show me the bill! You can't, just like you can't show me their healthcare bill, or their Iran plan!

What you can show me is a bunch of people claiming to be victims with no ideas and no action! But if you've got something they've done other than complain about people that actually do something, even if it's not perfect, my ears are open!

It seems both of us have no political party so that is a good thing perhaps. While the leftist liberals who now control the democratic party and the White House want big things while promising to help the poor but instead reducing expenses paid for health care by big corporations causing the middle class to gradually disappear to create one class for all with the exception of those who rule, the republicans do seem to be inept in stopping the slide of our society into the toilet. But how do you get around the veto? When the President had his people running Congress big things were done for sure as you say. We got Obama Care for which all people will not feel the financial impact until 2017 and beyond. But some already have felt it especially those folks who have lost jobs while working for small business. Small business owners struggle to buy their own insurance and keep the doors open. The creator of Obama Care from MIT can be seen on videos stating several times that any American (who if they had the opportunity which they didn't) voted for Obama Care would have to be a complete fool. Nancy Paloci stated she would tell us about the bill once it became law. We are still waiting for her to read it and tell us how great it is. But Oracle they got things done for sure like you said. They spent a lot of stimulus money on defunct solar companies because big donations were given by those corporations to the President's election campaign. The companies went out of business shortly after receiving the money but the owners kept the money and the workers lost their jobs. Many doctors who signed a petition to Congress to warn against Obama Care have been audited by the IRS. My brother is one of those doctors and he practices in Michigan. Is the IRS the gestapo for this administration? Did one lady do all of those bad things at the IRS decide to audit all of those Tea Party people by herself? If you disagree you must be punished for the greater good. And how much money has been spent by this administration creating discrimination law suits against states, local governments, law enforcement and any entity that disagrees with the administrations policies? I would guess the cost must be in the billions of dollars so far. We tax payers pay on both ends of those law suits. And why is our President using Al Sharpton as his expert on race relations? Wasn't Al once in organizations that were tied to the KGB years ago? Yes the CPOA ( Communist Party Of America) was very effective doing the bidding of Joseph Stalin from the 1920s through the 1960s. Americans who joined might have thought that they were making positive "change" for our society. But they were being used by Mother Russia who wanted to destroy America. That was the goal. American members were responsible for killing Trostsky in Mexico on orders from the high command in the USSR. The CPOA was also able to get several double agents in our Treasury and State Departments before and during WW2. During WW2 the American intelligence agency OSS had has it's 2nd in command a guy named Silvermaster who was a double agent for the soviet Union responsible for hiring new agents. He worked in the Treasury Department before the war and was determined to be a double agent by a Senate committee but never went to jail and instead became a CIA agent stationed in China. You can't make this stuff up. As most WW2 war heroes who actually fought especially in Europe that included a lot of our relatives, would say "something smells rotten" the way things went down where the USSR was allowed to make slaves out of all of Eastern Europe. USSR's impact on our government was huge. Roosevelt said mass murderer Joseph Stalin was his friend many times. Stalin could speak good English but two of our Presidents thought he couldn't speak a word of English. Truman allowed up to 20,000 American soldiers to be marched off to the Soviet Union keeping the information "Top Secret". IKE didn't speak up or do anything to save those troops. Eisenhower was such a coward he allowed the Joint Chief of Staff to tell him he couldn't get a divorce and marry the woman he was living with and was in love with. So he was the milk toast republican we got after the two democrats were out. Meanwhile the CPOA still had their double agents in the State department and treasure department. That is how we got the wonderful United Nations. This is all fact but somehow Americans love blind trust in our leaders. Representatives from the Library of Congress led by a democratic senator was allowed to review all the files of the American Communist Party's activities in 1993 after the USSR was out of business and that is all available to everyone to see what actually went on in those days. Who knows what is going on these days?

Many believe that Russia's old style of networking and infiltration into our government has never stopped. When things don't make sense, usually there is a good reason why things go down the way they do. And this stupid deal our administration is trying to cram down our throats doesn't make any sense at all. Iran's goal is to destroy America. They are at war with us. But somehow we can trust them and are not at war with them. Meanwhile Russia supplies the ingredients to make the nukes with the help of China and those two countries sit in on the meetings and help make this deal. Who might be the underlings working in our State Department as the figure heads are eating lunch and texting their girl friends? Ben Franklin had it down right. When our governmental leaders including Congress at at work we are all in trouble.

But I am a happy camper today as Stanley Johnson has signed his Piston contract. We have the Pistons moving on up and a lot of other stuff to keep us happy.

[WTF]

You can't have it both ways, but then maybe you can! See you can't hamper someone from making progress and then blame them when progress isn't made that's generally how it goes for the President. Just seem crazy that one would expect him to make Dictator Like decisions but would scream Bloody Murder if he does.

Remember Greed rules everything around us Dollar Dollar Bill Ya'll. Looking to blame the President for everything is crazy when Congress and Big Corporations is causing most of it but people tend to hear what they want to hear or simply not hearing enough.

Climate Change is real just not to congress and corporation, Healthcare works better just not to congress and corporation, Immigration Reform can be accomplished if congress and corporations step aside, Peace on Earth that's another story that requires everyone to stop hating each other then maybe bombs and other weapons become less needed. You can't blame one single person and one single person can't fix things but as long as Money Rules Everything Around Us you can blame Dollar Dollar Bill Ya'll

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