A Win and A Lose For UM QB's

[WTF]

I'm still not sure what SVG is doing seem like he's fishing just hoping to catch something. He could be stockpiling these non-guaranteed contracted players just for training camp or as Stone suggested setting up a D-league roster. In any case just saying that either is the case would relieve any concerns of him being an idiot.

Brady Brady and the Shady Commish!!! The commish was wrong in the first place because there was no smoking gun, no proof and he over step his boundaries IMO even if the league gave him the authority to do so. If Brady deflated some balls it was obviously those of the commish with this recent ruling from the court. Goodell needs to walk away from this one and accept this ruling because it all seemed like a witch hunt to begin with and all the money that been tossed into investigating this was a waste. Players cheat all the time right in front of our faces on every single play there is some rule being broken to gain an advantage be it with holding or clipping, and cheating is cheating next thing players will get suspended for those infraction if he's not careful with this thing. It won't be just a 5, 10, 15 yard penalty it'l be 1 games suspensions for pass interference or holding.

This crap wouldn't be such a big deal if all sports remove public opinion/perception and social media out the equations when deciding things.


Bad start for the Wolverines but I have this feeling that Jim is going to turn this team around quicker than most think. I don't hink the team is overly talented but I think they'll be a lot tougher with Jim as the coach.

[Go Stones!]

Is he signing some of these players so that he can stockpile a minor league team? Are the rules changing soon? Maybe SVG is looking to fill some seats in Grand Rapids and revolutionize the concept of a minor league team. That is my bet.

[Murph]

Man...SVG never saw a scrub he didn't want to sign.  How many of these guys do we really need?...Griffen, Bullock, Thomas, Martin, Gray, Anthony.

What's SVG running here?...a half way house for wayward D-Leaguers?  



And if you add up all their salaries, and add in Josh Smith's salary, that come out to almost $20 million a year of Tom Gores' money that SVG is piddling down his leg.

It use to be that $20 million was a lot of money. But apparently it's just a rounding error for SVG.

The problem is that if SVG is so dim-witted when it comes to the team payroll, what else is he dim-witted about?

[Oracle]

Holy smokes, Brady totally defeats the NFL and wins big in Court! Deflategate is OVER - Judge rules for Tom Brady, overturns four-game deflate-gate suspension; Goodell to appeal

Stay Classy: The Redskins organization looks silly - Wife of Washington GM accuses ESPN reporter of oral sex for scoops, later apologizes & more from the organization that originally broke the story Redskins GM’s Wife Tweets ESPN Reporter Used Oral Sex to Get Scoops

The combination of these two stories reminds me of that old saying: "A cheap Ho may get you off, but never a cheap lawyer"

[Go Stones!]

I'm trying to wrap my head around why we are exceeding our max roster amount allowed.

Is it b/c SVG has already written off Bullock and Granger as scrap? Maybe Martin too?

Does he want to sign these players so there is insurance for when/if an injury occurs so there is someone as a plan B? Is he stockpiling good assets for a trade in the future? Give garbage and get prizes? Nickel and diming the other teams?

[Oracle]

@Wise:

1. I too miss the old forum's size! Just so many people it was crazy, LOL! I keep trying to get guys from Reddit & elsewhere, but people are lazy when it comes to filling out things to sign up!
   
2. You're wrong about Meeks vs KCP Draft Express says that Meeks is 6'3 without shoes, and KCP is about 6'5 without shoes, and 6'6 with shoes! If you remember KCP & Singler hugging, they were about the same height, with Singler just a bit taller at 6'8.
   

Pistons sign Eric Griffin, a 6'8 SF!

I'm not sure I understand this move! We've got Morris, Johnson, Thomas, Martin, Granger, and somebody's mama competing for SF positions, and SVG adds Griffin?

I like opposite of Joe, but this appears to be a whole other kind of crazy ! Well, at least he isn't 6'6...

[Oracle]

We'll have to monitor this season because it's radically different from ALL other seasons for KCP.

For his entire career, getting in the paint was something that really wasn't available to him! With Josh, Andre & Moose clogging up the paint, there was very little room to operate.

Even after Josh, there was Moose, Andre and now Jackson, until he develops a 3 point shot!

This year, it's just Jackson & Andre, so there should be a lot more opportunities for him to do his business.

BTW, that Tripple T stuff was hilarious

[WTF]

[WTF]

Man I wish we could get everyone back posting like when we all on PistonsTalk It was a ton of fun, lots of laugh and great debates daily seem like the forum is just barely hanging on most of the time.

[WTF]

Oracle say's IMO, your biggest problem is not understanding the dynamics of development! You always attempt to judge the child based on what a man would do, and that's a bad way to operate. But you're not alone in doing that, even though you're isolated in that you don't recognize it. SVG checked himself about KCP once he remembered the dude only had a rookie year, and SVG was judging him like a 5 year veteran! Seriously, do you think anybody game plans for KCP? Not likely, at least not yet!

No I judge a child base on what he does and how he is taught. We have already concluded that SVG scheme is more gimmick than real substance. A child could easily become a victim of their environment as easily as they can strive in it. Some player go their entir career and never become a shooter even if they get better at shooting. Both KCP and SJ by nature are scorers and likely will always be. Issue isn't with the dynamics of development but the faultiness of a system not designed for their talents.

IMO what SVG is doing isn't all that different from the **** Joe did with playing players away from their talent set or from their natural position my forcing them away from their strenghts

Keep in mind we had the same hope in players like Amir, and so on and the worst or best of example would be Stuckey who progressed and strive under Flip as his coach while being mentored by Chauncey only to watch him force out of position and force away from his strenght as a scoring guard. How Stuckey managed to keep a scoring average above 14 pt seems like a miracle.

Its already starting to happen with KCP and the fear is they'll screw it up with SJ if they're not careful.

[Oracle]

Lemonpen, you're faded, shake'um and roll!

Member	Wins
Lemonpen	49
Sebastian	48
Merc	45
DX	45
Oracle	44
Wise	44
Stones	41
Murph	40
Cool Breeze
Phil1980boy
Sissy
Fennis
Sparma

[Oracle]

SVG reminds me of this commercial(see below), in order to slay NBA teams and make it to the finals, he's going to need a much bigger club! I mean, the 4 out one in isn't a game plan, IMO, it's a use once in awhile thing and shouldn't be what you're all about!

I agree with you about KCP being a scorer, and Johnson is exactly the same! These guys need to be turned loose, and not forced to be spot up 3 point shooters, because that shot becomes a crutch, used to avoid the hard work of getting a good shot!

IMO, your biggest problem is not understanding the dynamics of development! You always attempt to judge the child based on what a man would do, and that's a bad way to operate. But you're not alone in doing that, even though you're isolated in that you don't recognize it. SVG checked himself about KCP once he remembered the dude only had a rookie year, and SVG was judging him like a 5 year veteran! Seriously, do you think anybody game plans for KCP? Not likely, at least not yet!

It took Shaq many years to realize he was the man! Kids grow up to be men, and once that happens, not only their game changes, they change! They walk into games unafraid and not worrying about the matchup, others are worrying about them, and that's more than half the battle.

When our Bad Boys & the 2004 team entered the arena most nights, the game was already won! The other team already knew the outcome, they just played the game to find out the final score! Rookies, 2nd-5th year dudes do not inflict fear in anybody except ball boys... it takes time!

Oh yeah, here's the video

[Oracle]

Stay tuned Piston fans. A trade is coming. I believe A big trade will happen by the deadline. But the Pistons will make A trade to clean house and make room. We will see what happens......

I will give my opinion on the Pistons record after the next trade.  

Oh yeah, the tea leaves are smelling like a big one is brewing! Here's the tea leaves to read!

1. We're a tad thin at PF, so we're going to do something, but what? Do we get a grizzled vet or go young with potential? Looks like SVG may be going the young with upside route, but he can't do a damn thing with 17 dudes already on the roster. With that said, here is the first tea leave - Pistons 'frontrunners' to sign Eric Moreland, according to report
   
2. But you can't get a bigger tea leave than SVG basically coming out and saying that he's going to make a move, and that means it's pretty much guaranteed, here it is - Pistons news: Adonis Thomas' roster predicament; Hilliard disappointed in SL performance
   

So what did he say? He said this to Thomas,

"The day I signed my contract, he told me, 'Hey, I know you're looking at the roster, at 17 guaranteed guys, and you're the only non-guaranteed guy or partially guaranteed guy.' " Thomas recalled. "He said that anything can change. He said, 'We're looking to make some changes soon. We're not really focused in on who's on the roster right now. We're going to let go of maybe some guaranteed guys, or we're making some changes soon, or trades could be made.' "

I don't know how much clearer he can be, but that pretty much seals the deal and confirms what most here already knew!

BTW Phillip, you can make predictions now, and anyone can change their prediction up until the start of the season! So don't feel constrained, you can do what you want.

[Phil-Good]

Stay tuned Piston fans. A trade is coming. I believe A big trade will happen by the deadline. But the Pistons will make A trade to clean house and make room. We will see what happens......

I will give my opinion on the Pistons record after the next trade.

[WTF]

I'm not really sure if SVG is the right coach for this team seems to be some reluctance on his part though we've witnessed the Josh release, and letting Moose walk, and basically house cleaning Joe's mess I'm still not so sure if he hasn't created his own turd.

Is it me but does our new rookie look like someone we need to be primed to build around than our 3rd year center. I decide to venture out into the fields of potential and based on what I've seen so far SJ give me an errie feeling of similarity we once had with Hill. Not comparing the two just saying I see more potential for greatness in this rookie than I do in Andre.

SJ seems far more mature being younger, seem to be far more ready for the NBA, seem to ssay all the right things but then again so did Stuckey but then Stuckey wasn't a number 8 pick either.

I do however feel that if SVG is persistent with 4 out 1 in and premature labeling of Andre as said franchise he is going to screw this kid up. Truth be told much in the way I see KCP as a score I see SJ in the same manner. He too shouldn't be confined to SVG current offense either.

[WTF]

IMO its a toss up on who we keep between KCP and Meeks, if we're talking best fit then its' Meeks but if we're talking potential and contract then the slightest of edge might lean KCP way. I would likely if I was SVG lean more towards what a better fit. At the end of the day Meeks will always be a far better shooter though it didn't seem that way last season.

Seriously? How long have you been a Piston Fan?

On what planet is the short, no defense playing Meeks, even in the conversation about who goes and who stays with KCP! That's some serious comedy!

We don't have ANYBODY on this team that's a better perimeter defender than KCP, and it isn't even close. Of course if you do your analysis, you always conclude that KCP isn't a lock down defender, as if defense is a one man game! KCP has played with some of the weakest perimeter and paint defenders I've seen in years, and he still gets the job done more often than not!

Then shockingly, you actually believe anybody in their right mind would prefer Meeks over KCP... OMG, that's funny

KCP obviously has serious trade value on the open market, so mentioning him as a possible trade option is valid, but the probability is VERY low!

BTW, I like Granger too, but he has long odds of staying here unless he dazzles in training camp! I can't imagine a move that didn't include him as waiveable fodder, so don't hope too much there!

I still hope for a deal that moves Morris to wherever his brother lands, and nets us a real starting SF. Stanley Johnson CAN be a starting SF if he can keep his weight and increase his speed. With his size, he can't be backed down, and you can't discount that, but he  could back down taller but lighter SF's.

It's not all about shooting over someone! If a shorter Johnson backs down a taller player, if you have the moves, you can score easily! If they can't back him down, they have to try jumpers!

We'll have to see how that plays out!

Come on Oracle it's a preference thing, KCP is an inch taller and he's a better defender but what he isn't is a better fit offensively.  If KCP doesn't breakout offensively this season we all know he's all but gone.  Granted Meeks shot like crap last season but and I don't have the answer for that but what we do know is that prior to coming here he was averaging 17 and shooting fairly well which is why SVG signed him.   KCP has potential not as a shooter but as a score and SVG offense doesn't call for a scorer.  Scorers need the ball all the time and KCP want have it all the time Jackson will and that means KCP has to become what I've been saying he needed to when we drafted him and that's the next (Redd, Miller, Allen or Rip).  

I'm not making a case that Meeks is better just a more likely fit than KCP and you guys have to see it even if you don't want to see it.

How can Meeks be a better fit as a one trick pony.  Yes, a better shooter than KCP, but only a shooter.   As already mentioned KCP is far better defensively.  He is better attacking the paint.  He is way better in transition, in both directions.  And lastly a better rebounder.   There is a really good reason Meeks could never seize the starting role once healthy.

Again lemonpen you're picking up and validating the very point I'm attempting to make here. Yes, a better shooter than KCP, but only a shooter.  this is what I'm talking about. If we were talking about a more of a traditional offensive scheme SVG was electing to use then I would be one for holding on to KCP. All the things you point out with KCP would make him extremely valuable but that One Trick Pony provided he comes back to form is more valuable in SVG 4 out 1 in system.

I have said countless times and many of you agree that KCP is a scorer and not a shooter, we all agree that scorers need the ball in their hands, and we all know that SVG system is designed for shooters (One Trick Pony) I don't think SVG gets overly excited about defense so in KCP being a better defender isn't something that solidify him a roster spot. If it did the media, fans, and coaches and whomever wouldn't be talking about this needs to be a breakout season or a breakout make season for him. We would all be looking at him as being a Bruce Bowen or someone like a Bruce Bowen and it would matter what his offense produce, but SVG isn't Pop either so inn terms of SVG need for shooters Meeks has that edge.

[lemonpen]

Put me down for 49 W's, again. SVG is gonna make all of these moves impact the bottom line this year.

Pass the Kool-Aid please. hic!

[lemonpen]

IMO its a toss up on who we keep between KCP and Meeks, if we're talking best fit then its' Meeks but if we're talking potential and contract then the slightest of edge might lean KCP way. I would likely if I was SVG lean more towards what a better fit. At the end of the day Meeks will always be a far better shooter though it didn't seem that way last season.

Seriously? How long have you been a Piston Fan?

On what planet is the short, no defense playing Meeks, even in the conversation about who goes and who stays with KCP! That's some serious comedy!

We don't have ANYBODY on this team that's a better perimeter defender than KCP, and it isn't even close. Of course if you do your analysis, you always conclude that KCP isn't a lock down defender, as if defense is a one man game! KCP has played with some of the weakest perimeter and paint defenders I've seen in years, and he still gets the job done more often than not!

Then shockingly, you actually believe anybody in their right mind would prefer Meeks over KCP... OMG, that's funny

KCP obviously has serious trade value on the open market, so mentioning him as a possible trade option is valid, but the probability is VERY low!

BTW, I like Granger too, but he has long odds of staying here unless he dazzles in training camp! I can't imagine a move that didn't include him as waiveable fodder, so don't hope too much there!

I still hope for a deal that moves Morris to wherever his brother lands, and nets us a real starting SF. Stanley Johnson CAN be a starting SF if he can keep his weight and increase his speed. With his size, he can't be backed down, and you can't discount that, but he  could back down taller but lighter SF's.

It's not all about shooting over someone! If a shorter Johnson backs down a taller player, if you have the moves, you can score easily! If they can't back him down, they have to try jumpers!

We'll have to see how that plays out!

Stanleys' size will be a minor factor in his resistance to being backed down by larger / taller / more seasoned opponents. Dre enjoys a size advantage every night but is relatively easily manipulated in the post. IMO the way in which post play is whistled makes holding ones ground more a matter of WILL. Good defenders find the gumption to become immobile against an initial heavy body blow. Sometimes even that isn't enough, as an official will allow someone like Melo to repeat the bodily assaults until achiving the desired shooting range.

Allowing that offensive approach is one of my sore points with the Association.

[lemonpen]

IMO its a toss up on who we keep between KCP and Meeks, if we're talking best fit then its' Meeks but if we're talking potential and contract then the slightest of edge might lean KCP way. I would likely if I was SVG lean more towards what a better fit. At the end of the day Meeks will always be a far better shooter though it didn't seem that way last season.

Seriously? How long have you been a Piston Fan?

On what planet is the short, no defense playing Meeks, even in the conversation about who goes and who stays with KCP! That's some serious comedy!

We don't have ANYBODY on this team that's a better perimeter defender than KCP, and it isn't even close. Of course if you do your analysis, you always conclude that KCP isn't a lock down defender, as if defense is a one man game! KCP has played with some of the weakest perimeter and paint defenders I've seen in years, and he still gets the job done more often than not!

Then shockingly, you actually believe anybody in their right mind would prefer Meeks over KCP... OMG, that's funny

KCP obviously has serious trade value on the open market, so mentioning him as a possible trade option is valid, but the probability is VERY low!

BTW, I like Granger too, but he has long odds of staying here unless he dazzles in training camp! I can't imagine a move that didn't include him as waiveable fodder, so don't hope too much there!

I still hope for a deal that moves Morris to wherever his brother lands, and nets us a real starting SF. Stanley Johnson CAN be a starting SF if he can keep his weight and increase his speed. With his size, he can't be backed down, and you can't discount that, but he  could back down taller but lighter SF's.

It's not all about shooting over someone! If a shorter Johnson backs down a taller player, if you have the moves, you can score easily! If they can't back him down, they have to try jumpers!

We'll have to see how that plays out!

Come on Oracle it's a preference thing, KCP is an inch taller and he's a better defender but what he isn't is a better fit offensively.  If KCP doesn't breakout offensively this season we all know he's all but gone.  Granted Meeks shot like crap last season but and I don't have the answer for that but what we do know is that prior to coming here he was averaging 17 and shooting fairly well which is why SVG signed him.   KCP has potential not as a shooter but as a score and SVG offense doesn't call for a scorer.  Scorers need the ball all the time and KCP want have it all the time Jackson will and that means KCP has to become what I've been saying he needed to when we drafted him and that's the next (Redd, Miller, Allen or Rip).  

I'm not making a case that Meeks is better just a more likely fit than KCP and you guys have to see it even if you don't want to see it.

How can Meeks be a better fit as a one trick pony. Yes, a better shooter than KCP, but only a shooter. As already mentioned KCP is far better defensively. He is better attacking the paint. He is way better in transition, in both directions. And lastly a better rebounder. There is a really good reason Meeks could never seize the starting role once healthy.

[WTF]

IMO its a toss up on who we keep between KCP and Meeks, if we're talking best fit then its' Meeks but if we're talking potential and contract then the slightest of edge might lean KCP way. I would likely if I was SVG lean more towards what a better fit. At the end of the day Meeks will always be a far better shooter though it didn't seem that way last season.

Seriously? How long have you been a Piston Fan?

On what planet is the short, no defense playing Meeks, even in the conversation about who goes and who stays with KCP! That's some serious comedy!

We don't have ANYBODY on this team that's a better perimeter defender than KCP, and it isn't even close. Of course if you do your analysis, you always conclude that KCP isn't a lock down defender, as if defense is a one man game! KCP has played with some of the weakest perimeter and paint defenders I've seen in years, and he still gets the job done more often than not!

Then shockingly, you actually believe anybody in their right mind would prefer Meeks over KCP... OMG, that's funny

KCP obviously has serious trade value on the open market, so mentioning him as a possible trade option is valid, but the probability is VERY low!

BTW, I like Granger too, but he has long odds of staying here unless he dazzles in training camp! I can't imagine a move that didn't include him as waiveable fodder, so don't hope too much there!

I still hope for a deal that moves Morris to wherever his brother lands, and nets us a real starting SF. Stanley Johnson CAN be a starting SF if he can keep his weight and increase his speed. With his size, he can't be backed down, and you can't discount that, but he  could back down taller but lighter SF's.

It's not all about shooting over someone! If a shorter Johnson backs down a taller player, if you have the moves, you can score easily! If they can't back him down, they have to try jumpers!

We'll have to see how that plays out!

Come on Oracle it's a preference thing, KCP is an inch taller and he's a better defender but what he isn't is a better fit offensively. If KCP doesn't breakout offensively this season we all know he's all but gone. Granted Meeks shot like crap last season but and I don't have the answer for that but what we do know is that prior to coming here he was averaging 17 and shooting fairly well which is why SVG signed him. KCP has potential not as a shooter but as a score and SVG offense doesn't call for a scorer. Scorers need the ball all the time and KCP want have it all the time Jackson will and that means KCP has to become what I've been saying he needed to when we drafted him and that's the next (Redd, Miller, Allen or Rip).

I'm not making a case that Meeks is better just a more likely fit than KCP and you guys have to see it even if you don't want to see it.

[Oracle]

IMO its a toss up on who we keep between KCP and Meeks, if we're talking best fit then its' Meeks but if we're talking potential and contract then the slightest of edge might lean KCP way. I would likely if I was SVG lean more towards what a better fit. At the end of the day Meeks will always be a far better shooter though it didn't seem that way last season.

Seriously? How long have you been a Piston Fan?

On what planet is the short, no defense playing Meeks, even in the conversation about who goes and who stays with KCP! That's some serious comedy!

We don't have ANYBODY on this team that's a better perimeter defender than KCP, and it isn't even close. Of course if you do your analysis, you always conclude that KCP isn't a lock down defender, as if defense is a one man game! KCP has played with some of the weakest perimeter and paint defenders I've seen in years, and he still gets the job done more often than not!

Then shockingly, you actually believe anybody in their right mind would prefer Meeks over KCP... OMG, that's funny

KCP obviously has serious trade value on the open market, so mentioning him as a possible trade option is valid, but the probability is VERY low!

BTW, I like Granger too, but he has long odds of staying here unless he dazzles in training camp! I can't imagine a move that didn't include him as waiveable fodder, so don't hope too much there!

I still hope for a deal that moves Morris to wherever his brother lands, and nets us a real starting SF. Stanley Johnson CAN be a starting SF if he can keep his weight and increase his speed. With his size, he can't be backed down, and you can't discount that, but he  could back down taller but lighter SF's.

It's not all about shooting over someone! If a shorter Johnson backs down a taller player, if you have the moves, you can score easily! If they can't back him down, they have to try jumpers!

We'll have to see how that plays out!

[WTF]

Okay of course there are going to be rosters changes with 17 guaranteed contracts and 1 partially guaranteed contract. Obviously the team can't carry more than 15 players. No way is SVG going to sum it all up just by deleting three players from the team and keeping the remaining and I doubt if something doesn't happen quicker but it will before the season starts.

We know Morris, EI, Baynes aren't going anywhere prior to December, and we know Jackson is a lock along with Drummond and SJ these are the six definitive things we can say we know foe certain. I think everything else has the potential for change and this includes Meeks, KCP and Jennings, along with what is left over.

IMO its a toss up on who we keep between KCP and Meeks, if we're talking best fit then its' Meeks but if we're talking potential and contract then the slightest of edge might lean KCP way. I would likely if I was SVG lean more towards what a better fit. At the end of the day Meeks will always be a far better shooter though it didn't seem that way last season.

IMO Granger out of anything else barring any health concerns is the perfect fit to backing up the SF, I know many of you want to clear a path of anything and that includes Morris that impedes everyone dream of Stanley starting at SF. I'm still not convinced he's an NBA SF and that he may find real success at the SG position. Don't get me wrong I have no issues or problem with him on the floor with either Morris or Granger. I think that SJ only adds to the idea that either Meeks or KCP and maybe both could be moved in a trade. Bottom line is I would love to keep Granger if he's healthy enough and this goes back to him actually fitting the offense and not the idea of others potentially fitting.

Jennings or Dinwiddie, either way Blake is here and likely not going anywhere unless something better truly comes along. I think SVG wants to really give Dinwiddie the opportunity to succeed or fail as the primary backup to Jackson. This is one of those case I might argue potential over substance only because I think Dinwiddie is a better floor general and defender.

To Be Continue Woman Behind Huffing and Puffing

[Oracle]

We lost one of a kind, a skilled big man, colorful character, and all around nice guy when Daryl Dawkins died!

Known as Chocolate Thunder for his backboard breaking dunks, people often forget the rest of his game!

Here's a small tribute to him.

[merc]

Looking at the roster it appears that they are two deep at each position with complimentary backups...
So what's missing?
The glaring need I see is a defensive stud at PF.
SF has questions... one being attitude the other a rookie unknown... yet SJ has that swag with a willingness to be a team player... this normally translates well... can he shoot?... so far he's shown that he can. some are talking about his low release... this league is littered with good shooters with a low release (let's start with Curry).
I'm comfortable with our SG's... I'm predicting a solid if not excellent year from KCP... this kid was an offensive stud in college... he's finally in a stable environment where he knows his role.... IMO Meeks hit bottom and has one way to go from there... history shows that he's a decent defender and a fairly good shooter.... we'll accept an average backup at this position.
PG- Only as good as they can stay healthy... if Jackson goes down all bets are off... I have no delusional thoughts of Jennings coming back close to his peak level (as short as it was)...yet there's no reason to believe that he can't hold his own as a reserve...  I have high hopes for RJ... with that wingspan he has no problem getting inside and creating space to finish.
Without Monroe opponents better keep their head on a swivel or it could be a dunk fest... a lot of transition buckets this year.... should be entertaining.

[Oracle]

Murph I agree 100% that it falls on SVG not being able to make it work, but this also applies to Joe and Cheeks as well. IMO Drummond was not then and even today a player that should have been labeled "Franchise Player". This isn't to say that he'll never be or don't have the potential to be but IMO the best suitable tandem at PF and C and likely the more productive one would have been Monroe and Josh. Instead all the political BS prevented that from happening and both Josh and Moose were force into playing their least effective positions. Cheeks knew it but had Andre starting forced down his throat by the "Powers That Be" and Joe sold his soul to the devil when Gore allowed him to make that Free Agency signing of both Josh and Jennings.

I couldn't agree more, and this is where I believe Joe gets the major blame!

Drummond was a guy best suited to come off the bench, there's no two ways about that, he and Bynum had the superior bench chemistry, and that would have really been something to contend with for other 2nd units!

Monroe & Josh were the logical Center/PF by any measure you care to put forth! These two should have been the starters, playing their natural positions!

But Joe wouldn't let Cheeks do the logical thing, and it killed them both! I thought the Jennings trade was dumb, but ultimately defendable. At that point in time, Jennings was by far the superior PG over Knight, and Joe made a calculated risk that Cheeks, a superior PG, could get Jennings to play right, and IMO, he did it, but Jennings bloomed too late to do Cheeks any good! Throwing in Middleton is what ultimately made the deal a loser, because both Jennings & Knight were on the same path to being solid PG's with differing styles!

Gores wanted his own man, and he gave Joe enough rope to hang himself! Joe should have never accepted the make playoffs of bust deal, he should have told Gores the truth, that it takes time, because he was toast either way. Saying the right thing in public, at least lets the rest of the world know that Gores was full of crap and just wanted to dump you!

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