My final draft picks for the Pistons

[Oracle]

Don, here are my final draft picks in the order I want if they're there at #8

1. Burke - obvious reasons
2. Bennett - Even though most say if he's there with Burke Joe would pass on Burke
3. MCW - If we can't get either of the above, a pure PG is my preference
4. Zeller - Size is always useful
5. Muhammad - I agree with you that he has a NBA body and probably translates well

[cool breeze]

I believe that the Pistons cannot afford to draft and play another rookie point guard with the exception of Burke who is going to be drafted most likely at the 6th spot. If the Pistons draft a guy like MCW kiss that pick away Piston fans unless they can trade him before training camp. The best players for the Pistons would be Zeller or Muhammad no question. It isn't even close in my mind. None of those point guard or combo guards will make an impact in the NBA for many years to come. Muhammad has an NBA body and skill set to make the starting lineup for the Pistons. He was the key player as a freshman who won the PAC12 championship for UCLA last season. And he did it on a dysfunctional team full of nut cases. Muhammad has some issues himself but was never a problem on that UCLA team. He can flat out score in many ways and that is what the Pistons need - consistent scoring out of the shooting guard spot. Zeller is an amazingly athletic guy for his size. He can run the court faster than any big man in the NBA. And he is so young that I see no downside for his showing in the last NCAA tournament. Zeller could be the real sleeper in this draft. I could not trust any of the other prospects in the draft this year with the exception of Burke who will be a good NBA player even at his size. This is a extremely weak draft Piston fans. Dumars has to bring in at least one solid vet in free agency or through a trade and that trade better not include Monroe, Drummond or Knight unless we get a younger blooming NBA star who has shown that he is a star type player at his position.

[cool breeze]

Yes Piston fans, this was the killer draft for the Pistons and we have all felt the blow for many years since. I watched this painful 2003 draft day when Joe Dumars drafted Darko the man who is now retired from the NBA. I watched as D. Wade was picked by Miami along with all the other sure fire solid players in that draft that Joe ignored to take the chain smoking 17 year old player that had never been a key player on any basketball team that he ever played on up to the day of that draft. What bogus information did Joe fall for that summer before the draft? What in hell did Joe do when he traveled to Europe to allegedly meet with Darko and study the facts about his history? Did Darko chain smoke during their interviews? Did Joe offer Darko some American cigarettes? All of my basketball buddies who are not Piston fans laughed at me on that draft day. Meanwhile the Detroit News reporters thought that was a solid pick. The college coaches that I knew thought that Dumars was crazy to pass on Wade. Wade then bites the Pistons in the playoffs just to prove something to Joe. That draft will go down as one of the most amazing blunders by a Piston GM in the entire history of the Detroit Pistons.

[cool breeze]

If Burke slide and Joe passes on selecting him he better pray like hell that Knight has a breakout season and look like the 2nd coming of D-Rose.  If Knight struggles all hell will break loose as to why Joe passed on Burke.    

If Knight is struggling and the playoff look to be unlikely you can expect both Joe and Knight asses to be gone before the season is over.

Wisefan Knight will struggle again this coming season if he is forced to play with the same group as last season. No point guard could play well with guys like Maxiell starting. There will be little talk about the play of whoever the Pistons point guard might be if Dumars brings in better players at other positions. As the facts show, he basic reason why the Pistons failed this last season was because of the inept play of the big men and their lack of ability to defend and rebound. If that doesn't change, look for more of the same empty seats at the Palace. I don't see any player available in this draft that will change many teams for the better and that is the reason why I could take my chances with a big man with the first pick.

[lemonpen]

Agree with many.  This is exciting.  As entertaing as the Finals were I really wanted it to end just so we could get back to being participants from our role of spectators.

Right or wrong I sure hope Joe burns some assets to move up and get his man.  This has to be a "turn the corner" summer.  We can't sit and wait for everything to fall into our laps.  We've enjoyed 3 yrs of good luck, now make some luck.

[Oracle]

Ok, here's the latest Mockers fit to print, and they're all over the map, but one consensus appears that Nerlens Noel isn't likely to go #1.

1. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2013/06/24/mock-draft-common-sense-picks-ben-mclemore-nerlens-noel/2454539/

2. http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2013-06-24/nba-mock-draft-2013-cavs-magic-wizards-alex-len-nerlens-noel-victor-oladipo-otto

3. http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft

4. http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2013/

[Oracle]

Put the right defensive players around Burke and it becomes a mute point on rather his defense is exceptional or not at the NBA level IMO.  We won titles with slightly above average defenders at the PG position with both Zeke and Chauncey.   It was clearly their floor leadership and ability to run an offense that made them both All-Stars and Burke has that (he's a winner) 

Thank God! for the likes of the Wallace's, Tay, Joe, Bill, Rick, Worm, Salley, Hunter, James all well above average defenders that made the life of Zeke and Chauncey easier on the defensive end. 

Chauncey not the greatest perimeter defender had his share of the Boobi Gibson's this often required creative thinking to put the bigger Prince on hot shooters at but guard positions. It certainly helped having Sheed and Ben.

Zeke basically the same thing though Zeke was a better on ball defender than Chauncey but was a poor perimeter defender. Much respect to Zeke because he faced a top flight PG every night. 

My point is put the right amount of a defensive players on the court with a PG and he'll be okay.

It's beyond obvious that the better the defensive play on the perimeter, the better your team is defensively by a factor of at least 2x! Defense begins on the perimeter... it's as simple as that!

Where you're missing the point is that you take an unbalanced view of he situation.

It's NOT about over valuing anything. If you look back and see what was written, you'll notice that every player presents tradeoffs, and you have to weigh those tradeoffs to come to a decision.

So of course you can be alright with less than stellar perimeter play, we know that. The question doesn't revolve around a single player, you can't assume everybody else is a perfect defender, you don't select players in a vacuum!

That's why you have to weigh the player you want against the possible players he'll play with, and that's the point! Drummond can't do it alone, Monroe has to get better defensively! Who's going to man the other positions? At some point you could easily see that perimeter defense for this team could be critical!

BTW, we're at a real disadvantage because Joe & crew may have knowledge of who they expect to get in free agency or trade, and that will affect a lot of what happens on draft night!

I agree with Seb & DX, this is an exciting draft because there is so much parity! IMO, that doesn't make the draft weak, it just doesn't have the super star potential of other drafts, there are some solid pros that will emerge from this draft!

I have weighed the pros & cons, and as I said, I came back to Burke!

But I'm pissed now, because as soon as we want him, that's when he won't fall to us! IMO, his stock will rise again as people reflect(as I did) over his true value to a team!

Oh well, I'm glad it's close to happening...

[WTF]

Put the right defensive players around Burke and it becomes a mute point on rather his defense is exceptional or not at the NBA level IMO.  We won titles with slightly above average defenders at the PG position with both Zeke and Chauncey.   It was clearly their floor leadership and ability to run an offense that made them both All-Stars and Burke has that (he's a winner) 

Thank God! for the likes of the Wallace's, Tay, Joe, Bill, Rick, Worm, Salley, Hunter, James all well above average defenders that made the life of Zeke and Chauncey easier on the defensive end. 

Chauncey not the greatest perimeter defender had his share of the Boobi Gibson's this often required creative thinking to put the bigger Prince on hot shooters at but guard positions. It certainly helped having Sheed and Ben.

Zeke basically the same thing though Zeke was a better on ball defender than Chauncey but was a poor perimeter defender. Much respect to Zeke because he faced a top flight PG every night. 

My point is put the right amount of a defensive players on the court with a PG and he'll be okay.

[Sebastian]

I wonder if the Blazers would be interested in OUR #8 pick and Moose for LA. Maybe, Joe should get the Blazers' folks on the phone.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228359/Blazers-Reject-Trade-Of-LaMarcus-Aldridge-For-Nos-1-19-Picks

[Sebastian]

This has got to be the most exciting draft in years (to be so weak, as many say) and has drawn so much speculation as to how it will play out. Who's your favorite today? Who'll go #1? What about #4? How about #8? See what I mean? Until draft night none of us know a thing about how it'll play out.

#8. When I was eight years old I wanted a Lionel train set under the Christmas tree more than anything else in my life, until this draft when at #8, I wanted Trey Burke to be there! Within two weeks, reading different fans opinion, whom I respect, I went from Burke to Bennett, to Pope, to Zeller, and back to Burke, and.....you feel me? Now I'm down to either Burke or Zeller, which is like that train set or a bike; whichever fits the perceived need. If it's a cold winter afternoon, or a bright summer day; what best fits the need!! This is basketball and the choices aren't as easy, just ask Joe about 2003 (when after months of evaluation of players, he made a choice in the last 8 hours).

I'm excited, exhausted, past worry, and numb with the ghosts of the past haunting my mind; I just want it over and am hoping for the best fit for our team.

DX, what I like most about this year's draft is the uncertainty. The draft "experts" don't have any idea, which player will be drafted 1st, 2nd, 3rd, ... I like this a lot!

[deusXango]

This has got to be the most exciting draft in years (to be so weak, as many say) and has drawn so much speculation as to how it will play out. Who's your favorite today? Who'll go #1? What about #4? How about #8? See what I mean? Until draft night none of us know a thing about how it'll play out.

#8. When I was eight years old I wanted a Lionel train set under the Christmas tree more than anything else in my life, until this draft when at #8, I wanted Trey Burke to be there! Within two weeks, reading different fans opinion, whom I respect, I went from Burke to Bennett, to Pope, to Zeller, and back to Burke, and.....you feel me? Now I'm down to either Burke or Zeller, which is like that train set or a bike; whichever fits the perceived need. If it's a cold winter afternoon, or a bright summer day; what best fits the need!! This is basketball and the choices aren't as easy, just ask Joe about 2003 (when after months of evaluation of players, he made a choice in the last 8 hours).

I'm excited, exhausted, past worry, and numb with the ghosts of the past haunting my mind; I just want it over and am hoping for the best fit for our team.

[Murph]

1.  Porter
2.  Noel
3.  Burke
4.  Oladipo
5.  McLemore
6.  Zeller
7.  Len
8.  Bennett

[Oracle]

Real good read on the kids coming out

Trey Burke, 6-1 point guard, Michigan: "I like Burke because he's a winner, he's tough, and he can score. He's got some D.J. Augustin in him. He loves to prove people wrong. We like our guards big, but look at guys like Chris Paul and Tony Parker. I think Burke is a solid point guard but I don't see the all-star level."

I disagree about the all star level! Of course, folks like to blame Knight for behaving like an SG, but here's something people appear to not understand.

A PG can't be an all star playing with a bunch of slugs that can't shoot!

This Piston team of the last few seasons forces PG's to be SG's because passing is almost a turnover, it's safer to shoot!

It happened to Calderon! When he came here, he HAD to shoot more than he usually does because it's the better play a lot of the time on a team that can't shoot!

They did see what I and others see, Burke is a winner, and in my book that counts for a lot! That doesn't mean he doesn't have holes, he does, and they're big and will be hard to cover.

What you evaluate is the balance of what a player gives and what he takes away.

[merc]

Real good read on the kids coming out

[Oracle]

If Burke slide and Joe passes on selecting him he better pray like hell that Knight has a breakout season and look like the 2nd coming of D-Rose.  If Knight struggles all hell will break loose as to why Joe passed on Burke.    

If Knight is struggling and the playoff look to be unlikely you can expect both Joe and Knight asses to be gone before the season is over.

That's silly, the same could be said of Monroe, the onus is on him MUCH more than Knight!

BTW, what I do question about Burke is his ability to do what he did in college where guys are dog slow, but in the NBA are super fast and a lot stronger.

There's no way he won't be a liability on defense, there's no magic in the NBA, and he doesn't have the speed to out quick anybody on defense, but he does have smarts! Unfortunately, smarts only carry you so far defensively(see Monroe).

As I said, every player has holes, you just need to see them in you pets and not just in everybody else

[Oracle]

I used to get perplexed by your double standards, but after awhile I discovered that you just can't see what you're doing!

I can, and you thought I did use one game to discredit Burke, but I didn't and won't go there! You went crazy when you believed falsely that I was going to attack Burke based on ONE game!

But you can do that to another player and not bat an eye, and make up excuses as to why, which I'm 100% sure you believe.

BTW, I've changed my mind again on Burke, based on his value of possibly being able to maximize Drummond in the P/R. That factor moved me to taking him if available over MCW!

I use the Carmelo theory that Joe should have used! You HAVE to go with winners! Carmelo was a winner, and there's something intangible about guys that refuse to lose! Burke has that, IMO, a bit more than any other guard in the draft!

But I swear that I wish he was at least BK7's size, but if he was, he wouldn't drop!

[WTF]

If Burke slide and Joe passes on selecting him he better pray like hell that Knight has a breakout season and look like the 2nd coming of D-Rose.  If Knight struggles all hell will break loose as to why Joe passed on Burke.    

If Knight is struggling and the playoff look to be unlikely you can expect both Joe and Knight asses to be gone before the season is over.

[WTF]

@Lemon - I agree we want Knight to do better with turnovers and do more of what he's been doing, but isn't that what development and gaining experience is all about?

I can't think of a guard or ball distributor with fewer turnovers than BK7, and a quick look at some guards like Nash and Parker shows that BK7's career 2.67 turn average is better, and only slightly above Chris Paul's 2.4.

Face it guards, like everybody else, get better with experience!

MCW not good? That's interesting, because his skill set is also one of the few that almost 100% translates to the NBA. He's a ball distributor and floor general! Not a great shooter, but can get to the cup and score. Worry about his defense is valid due to the system he played in, but that's not his fault.

@Wise - The problem with Rondo & Cousins isn't about talent, it's in their heads! Don't ask me why, but if I was going to risk it, it would be with Cousins!

On Burke/MCW, are you seriously basing everything on ONE game? Please don't start the silly again, because in that game, no player in history is immune!

No I'm basing it on several games, but in looking at that game alone a few things bothered me about MCW and it had nothing to do with his talent.  I expected a better showing from MCW in that game and Burke and Hardaway simply stole his heart in a big situation.  

The real reason I bring that game up is because 1. You speak of MCW height as being an advantage and Burke's being a disadvantage but one game or not that match up showed otherwise.  Burke ripped MCW at least twice and blocked a couple of his shot attempts and bascially scored at will on a player that had a 6 inch height advantage.  

My biggest concern is with MCW heart, I think he was more intimidated by Burke then it was Michigan defense.  In other words I think he choked under pressure.

[merc]

Langlois "Brandon Knight’s presence and ability to play both guard spots gives Joe Dumars the same flexibility to draft either backcourt spot"
Hooper can play PG too... is he good at it?

When did Cousins become a PF?

[Oracle]

Brian Shaw agrees to be the Denver Nuggets' next coach

[Oracle]

I actually like what Langolis has to say on Burke, because Burke is such a wild card!

"Trey Burke – Odds he’ll be a Piston: 15 percent.
The grapevine says Burke’s grip on the No. 1 spot among point guards is slipping. Of this group of seven, he’s probably the one with the best shot of sliding to the Pistons. He might present them with the biggest dilemma of all. Unlike Len, blocked by Drummond, the Pistons wouldn’t take points from Burke based on his position.
Brandon Knight’s presence and ability to play both guard spots gives Joe Dumars the same flexibility to draft either backcourt spot as Monroe’s ability to play either frontcourt spot presented him a year ago.
The complicating factor: Does Joe D have an inkling which way free agency will go? Does he think Jose Calderon is coming back? Does he have a bead on landing a scoring shooting guard via trade?
There are legitimate concerns that if the Pistons draft Burke, they’ve then locked Knight in at shooting guard and they’ll be significantly undersized in the backcourt. But if they see Burke as growing into both a dynamic pick-and-roll operator – maximizing Drummond’s great offensive skill set – and a take-charge leader he showed at Michigan, then you draft that player and sort out the implications." - Langolis

[Oracle]

@vgoodwill: Why would they do something like that? That makes no sense IMO RT @Go_Blue33: @me what about trading up to get Orlando's #2 pick for Burke?

@vgoodwill: LOL RT @jacobmjones_: how many tweets a day do you get about Burke? People act like the dude is Michael Jordan.

@vgoodwill: I think they're gonna try to move him RT @AaronMannicci: What is stuckey's status in your mind?

In other news:

Bennett, Burke head list of those who might fall to No. 8 - Potential Pistons

[Sebastian]

Hold up on the killing Rondo stuff, this kid was running off strings of games with 16-17 assist and seem to be logging a triple-double every time you glance at him.  Granted he doesn't have the best jump shot and his FT shooting is sub-par, but everything else is above excellent.  

Let's not get on Cousins for demanding a Max Deal,  there's no denying this kid has the talent and a greater upside than Monroe does. IMO all Cousins needs is a change of scenery and Joe love this kid even more so than he does Monroe. Let's not be fooled that Monroe won't be demanding the same Max Deall since he already declined signing an extension last summer.  

I don't know what's going to happen with this team, but if I could land Rondo, Josh Smith and we draft good I would be happy.   I could live with a line up of Rondo PG, Stuckey SG, Smith SF, Monroe PF and Drummond C. I could see this group immediately contending next season.

Wise, I absolutely love this starting four! As you know, I'm not a Stuckey fan so don't take it personal; this is where, if luck holds true for us, we pick McLemore or KC-P for our starting SG. The mind numbing thought is, what if Ben McLemore falls to us at #8? Stranger things have happened!!

Wise, Joe loves Cousins but, can he keep him under control if we got him? Same with Rondo, can he be controlled by Joe & Mo? Barring the problems that come with malcontents, this is a team that can "beat the Heat."

Put me down for what Wise has recommended: Moving - Moose for Cousins; Drafting - KCP; Signing: Josh Smith; and Having Stuckey as OUR 6th-man (Sixth Man of the Award candidate).

[Oracle]

@Lemon - I agree we want Knight to do better with turnovers and do more of what he's been doing, but isn't that what development and gaining experience is all about?

I can't think of a guard or ball distributor with fewer turnovers than BK7, and a quick look at some guards like Nash and Parker shows that BK7's career 2.67 turn average is better, and only slightly above Chris Paul's 2.4.

Face it guards, like everybody else, get better with experience!

MCW not good? That's interesting, because his skill set is also one of the few that almost 100% translates to the NBA. He's a ball distributor and floor general! Not a great shooter, but can get to the cup and score. Worry about his defense is valid due to the system he played in, but that's not his fault.

@Wise - The problem with Rondo & Cousins isn't about talent, it's in their heads! Don't ask me why, but if I was going to risk it, it would be with Cousins!

On Burke/MCW, are you seriously basing everything on ONE game? Please don't start the silly again, because in that game, no player in history is immune!

[deusXango]

Hold up on the killing Rondo stuff, this kid was running off strings of games with 16-17 assist and seem to be logging a triple-double every time you glance at him.  Granted he doesn't have the best jump shot and his FT shooting is sub-par, but everything else is above excellent.  

Let's not get on Cousins for demanding a Max Deal,  there's no denying this kid has the talent and a greater upside than Monroe does. IMO all Cousins needs is a change of scenery and Joe love this kid even more so than he does Monroe. Let's not be fooled that Monroe won't be demanding the same Max Deall since he already declined signing an extension last summer.  

I don't know what's going to happen with this team, but if I could land Rondo, Josh Smith and we draft good I would be happy.   I could live with a line up of Rondo PG, Stuckey SG, Smith SF, Monroe PF and Drummond C. I could see this group immediately contending next season.

Wise, I absolutely love this starting four! As you know, I'm not a Stuckey fan so don't take it personal; this is where, if luck holds true for us, we pick McLemore or KC-P for our starting SG. The mind numbing thought is, what if Ben McLemore falls to us at #8? Stranger things have happened!!

Wise, Joe loves Cousins but, can he keep him under control if we got him? Same with Rondo, can he be controlled by Joe & Mo? Barring the problems that come with malcontents, this is a team that can "beat the Heat."

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