Charlotte

[Sparma]

Playing like this, Bynum makes re-signing Calderon and drafting Burke seem unnecessary (so long as he'd resign for the same $3mil). [Wise, I threw in the outrageous comment about Burke to try to force you to come out of hiatus to refute me.] His delicate bounce pass to JJ, followed by a backwards layup (and a free throw) would be a candidate for Pistons play of the year, or top ten. And it didn't even stand that far above several other plays.

Bynum seems to have felt the heat this year to pass the ball. I'd need to look at the numbers, but this easily seems to be the best season he's had.

At the same time, I agree that Bynum's play is fool's gold, a point Don made, I think. A thirty year old with an uncertain future leading us to another inopportune win.

Hope Drummond's o.k. In a middling game by his standards, he came in at 15 and 9. What a difference having him back makes. Wonder if we's seen the last of him for this year (even though he says he fine).

JJ's beginning to look like a key player again. Frank did him in for much of the season, but he brought a lot of that on himself by playing badly.

Interesting to see HS clips from our 2-time national HS player of the year. 19 & 2/5 doesn't suggest PG to me, but someone who should have a productive career, with much depending on how he's featured.

Murph's idea of drafting Kemba Walker over Knight continues to stand up well.

Is Frank saving his job down the stretch?

[deusXango]

If the Pistons win the last two games this season, is it a better year than last....percentage wise? What's the future of this team to be about?

[deusXango]

TREY BURKE

Position: Point Guard

Age: 20

Class: Sophomore

Height & Weight: 6'1" & 175 pounds

2012-13 Season Averages

29.76 PER, 18.6 PPG, 6.7 APG, 3.2 RPG, 1.6 SPG



In 2012-13, Michigan Wolverines point guard Trey Burke was the best player in the nation. He won both the Naismith and Wooden awards, and led the Wolverines to their first NCAA Championship Game appearance since 1993.

With this in mind, how could the Detroit Pistons possibly pass on their in-state hero?

For starters, drafting Burke would do wonders for the Pistons from a PR perspective. With his meteoric rise to fame, Burke is the perfect player to bring interest back to a team that fills the lowest percentage of seats per game in the NBA at 66.1 percent.

The second-lowest is the Cleveland Cavaliers at 78.0 percent.

In terms of basketball decisions, this is even more of an easy pick. Burke is an elite point guard that could front a franchise for years to come.

Considering Detroit has a major void at the point, there's no reason to hesitate on this one.

-THE BLEACHER REPORT on 4/11/2013

That's my last hoorah as far as championing the "Trey Burke cause"; I hope that the powers that be in Pistons management do the right thing.

[Oracle]

@DX - Picking Trey Burke at this point is a effing no brainer, IMO! The ONLY reason to pass on Burke is if Smart was there, but it's not even remotely possible that he will!

I LOVE BK7, I know he has a place on this team and is a core piece, but he ain't no Trey Burke when it comes to court vision, ability to break down the defense and ability to take over a game when others can't get it done!

Yeah, you and Wise had to wrestle me to the ground before I came around, but the tussle is over, I'm totally convinced now!

BTW, while the final tally isn't in, the trajectory of Kemba Walker, Murph's pick is looking fanstastic! He was another who's size turned me off and made me more interested in Knight, but lesson learned, I won't make that mistake with Burke!

Talent and heart doesn't respect of care about size!

The debate begins!!!

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Murph]

Playing like this, Bynum makes re-signing Calderon and drafting Burke seem unnecessary (so long as he'd resign for the same $3mil). [Wise, I threw in the outrageous comment about Burke to try to force you to come out of hiatus to refute me.] His delicate bounce pass to JJ, followed by a backwards layup (and a free throw) would be a candidate for Pistons play of the year, or top ten. And it didn't even stand that far above several other plays.

Bynum seems to have felt the heat this year to pass the ball. I'd need to look at the numbers, but this easily seems to be the best season he's had.

At the same time, I agree that Bynum's play is fool's gold, a point Don made, I think. A thirty year old with an uncertain future leading us to another inopportune win.

Sparma...good point. If we do draft Burke, we're still going to need a veteran PG on the roster, to provide minutes while Burke is learning the NBA game.

And I hesitate to say this, because I know it will be met with a chorus of boos...but probably the most cost effective veteran PG we could sign is Bynum. We could probably re-sign him for the same 3 year, $10 million that we signed him for last time. I realize Bynum would just be a stop-gap measure at PG, until Burke matures. But at $3.3 million a year, he's probably the most affordable stop-gap we can find.

That would leave Knight, Stuckey and English to fight it out for minutes at SG, and 2nd or 3rd string PG.

[deusXango]

Playing like this, Bynum makes re-signing Calderon and drafting Burke seem unnecessary (so long as he'd resign for the same $3mil). [Wise, I threw in the outrageous comment about Burke to try to force you to come out of hiatus to refute me.] His delicate bounce pass to JJ, followed by a backwards layup (and a free throw) would be a candidate for Pistons play of the year, or top ten. And it didn't even stand that far above several other plays.

Bynum seems to have felt the heat this year to pass the ball. I'd need to look at the numbers, but this easily seems to be the best season he's had.

At the same time, I agree that Bynum's play is fool's gold, a point Don made, I think. A thirty year old with an uncertain future leading us to another inopportune win.

Sparma...good point. If we do draft Burke, we're still going to need a veteran PG on the roster, to provide minutes while Burke is learning the NBA game.

And I hesitate to say this, because I know it will be met with a chorus of boos...but probably the most cost effective veteran PG we could sign is Bynum. We could probably re-sign him for the same 3 year, $10 million that we signed him for last time. I realize Bynum would just be a stop-gap measure at PG, until Burke matures. But at $3.3 million a year, he's probably the most affordable stop-gap we can find.

That would leave Knight, Stuckey and English to fight it out for minutes at SG, and 2nd or 3rd string PG.

Murph, I don't think your suggestion calls for booing from anyone who knows the game and has an open mind; Will Bynum is a no-brainer (for the same contract as you and Sparma suggested), a spark plug off the bench, a good character guy, and excellent role model of "hard-nosed, stick to it and perservere" veteran leadership (something that I don't believe Prince brought to the table). Looking at the influence he's had on Drummond and Middleton, I'd think Trey Burke would be in good hands under Bynum's wing for 2-3 years; I also think that he'd help Knight except his inevitable move to the bench and become a top performer from there. He's the only practical Pistons FA I'd re-sign.

The logjam at SG is going to get greater and as much as I like English I fear that Joe doesn't have the ability to see past Stuckey, and that inability will result in English being let go (much as Macklin was in favor of Maxiell). There's a need for an alpha dog of a SG that we presently don't have (unless a coach comes in and sees the potential value Middleton has playing along side Burke), so Joe will be shopping either through FA signing or trade. The need for a SG is more important than SF for now; the pressing need however, is for our PG of the future, and yeah, after two years it's time to stop dreaming about Knight being that long range solution. Knight is the future Jason Terry, J.R. Smith, Jamal Crawford; a consistent game changer and scorer coming off the bench. As a PG he's just another "also ran" who'll never be as good as he can become as a role player.

[Sparma]

Bynum's a real head scratcher to me. btw, his flip back to JJ trailing directly behind him was sheer genius. I've got very mixed feelings about Bynum. On the one hand, he seems to be the ultimate he is what he is guy - spectacular at times, but given to selfishness; on the other hand, he really seems to have had a change of heart this year, recognizing that he needs to help the young guys if he's to be truly valuable to the team. He's been the best guard with Drummond. Knight had his 31 point game in Cleveland (as I remember) largely playing next to Bynum. And JJ said something yesterday that was music to my ears: if I keep running, I know Bynum will find me.

So what next?

Once the uncertainty regarding draft position clears, the situation will be a bit less murky. The whole Burke issue may become moot if he's taken above us.

Let's say we get pick #6 and Burke's on the board. I'd advocate going with best player available, if there's a clear divide (I don't always think that's the way to go: the Lions better draft OL, or CB, or a replacement for Avril, even if, hypothetically, a QB or WR graded a bit higher). If Burke's clearly the best guy, pick him, otherwise no (I like Otto Porter, but he may well be there). I could be persuaded that Burke's the guy, but I have reservations. One reservations is that he may much closer to his ceiling than some of the rival possibilities, leaving less room for improvement. Another reservation I have about Burke is that I really wonder whether he'll be able to match, let alone surpass Calderon, or even Bynum, as an NBA player; hope my doubts are misplaced).

Let's say we pick Burke. Then I think you'd want to try hard to resign either Calderon (at 21 mil for 3) or Bynum (10 mil for 3). The situation may resolve itself if one or both prove too expensive and leave. Much as I love Calderon, I could live with the Burke/ Bynum PG combo because you'd need to spend a lot more on Calderon and you could use that money to try to acquire for your scoring wing player. If Bynum regresses to the erratic, me first, guy he's been for years, then opting for the Burke/Bynum will have been a mistake. Bynum's always been able to pass, he's just done it all too rarely in the past. There's building evidence that he gets it, that he sees how important it is for him to facilitate for the youngsters. If he's turned the corner, even at an advanced age, he'd be a steal for 10 mil for 3 years (for us or someone else!).

[Go Stones!]

If Burke is available to us when we pick, the biggest question will be if Joe D learned anything from drafting M.Cleeves back in the day. True team leader and skilled, but short and didn't translate into NBA. This is why I believe Joe D will NOT draft Burke if given the chance. He is hoping Burke is not available...so he doesn't have to make that difficult call.

Burke's stock is highest now. I feel Burke will be very similar to BK7 when he gets in the NBA. Defensive liability, but good shooter. Not the fastest either.

I would trust the NBA scouts to do their job. That must have been the deciding factor when they chose Drummond. Let them all do their jobs!

[Go Stones!]

Who we have left with contracts next year:

Stuckey 8.5M
CV 8.58M
JJ 4.5M
Monroe 4.086453M
BK7 2.9478M
Drummond 2.4624M
Kravtsov 1.5M
Singler 1.045M
English .788872M
Middleton .762195M Totals: 35.17272M (HoopsHype)
**Heard English is NOT guaranteed next year

#1 Trade CV and Stuckey to Chicago for Deng 14.312125M (saves us 2.767875M)
#2 Draft the best SF (1st round) and PF/C (2nd round)
#3 Resign Will Bynum at vet min; Calderon as low as possible for 3 years. (3M?)
#4 Pick up another Big like Kaman for cheap (backup Center) (less than 8M?)
#5 Pick up OJ Mayo 10M per year.
#6 I think I heard that English is NOT guaranteed...drop him
**unsure of draft picks and mid-level exceptions and stuff like that.

Starting:
PG: Calderon, BK7, Bynum
SG: Mayo, BK7, Singler
SF: Deng/Otto Porter or Anthony Bennett or Shabbazz or Oladipo/Middleton
PF: Moose, JJ, rookie Big (Dieng? - Yes, Deng and Dieng on same team...)
Center: Drummond, Kamen, VKravtsov

Still would have extra money available (4-5M left to sign the rookies) and Deng would come off the books the following year when the rookie SF would fill in and Singler could change over to backup SF.

This allows an older leadership mixed with younger players. We will need to have extra money available for Moose, BK7 and Drummond as they will each be getting larger contracts in successive years (2014, 2015, 2016).

[Oracle]

If Burke is available to us when we pick, the biggest question will be if Joe D learned anything from drafting M.Cleeves back in the day. True team leader and skilled, but short and didn't translate into NBA. This is why I believe Joe D will NOT draft Burke if given the chance. He is hoping Burke is not available...so he doesn't have to make that difficult call.

Burke's stock is highest now. I feel Burke will be very similar to BK7 when he gets in the NBA. Defensive liability, but good shooter. Not the fastest either.

I would trust the NBA scouts to do their job. That must have been the deciding factor when they chose Drummond. Let them all do their jobs!

There's no denying that Burke is a risk!

You, Sparma, Murph and even myself have had legitimate questions about Burke.

Size remains my only concern, but speed was also an earlier concern that got answered for me in the final four, burke has the speed required for the NBA after he adjusts!

But none of that matters when it comes to Joe picking! I can almost guarantee that he won't pick Burke because Burke is NOT a Joe D type of player.

Joe likes big guards, generally a minimum of 6'3, but he prefers 6'4 or better!

You can queue up the excuses if Burke is available, there will be plenty, and the praise of Burke will overflow, but Joe won't be picking him!

[Oracle]

At the price that we can get Bynum, we'd be fools to not re-sign him!

We're not likely to get anyone that knows this team as well and can be as productive as Bynum(especially at that price).

We complain about Bynum, but our complaint should be with the coaching!

If you don't use a player correctly, stuff always looks bad! The key with Bynum is to use him only when needed and in smaller doses. He's so good with this team that he doesn't need a ton of minutes to hit the floor and produce!

[deusXango]

If Burke is available to us when we pick, the biggest question will be if Joe D learned anything from drafting M.Cleeves back in the day. True team leader and skilled, but short and didn't translate into NBA. This is why I believe Joe D will NOT draft Burke if given the chance. He is hoping Burke is not available...so he doesn't have to make that difficult call.
Joe very well might not draft Burke, but it's flat out wrong to compare Burke to Mateen Cleaves; I watched U of D beat down State at "the Joe" and I've yet to see a floor game as poorly played by Burke that Cleaves did that night. Cleaves was bigger, but he was totally unprepaired for the NBA. This is a special 6' 0".

Burke's stock is highest now. I feel Burke will be very similar to BK7 when he gets in the NBA. Defensive liability, but good shooter. Not the fastest either.
Burke is not a turnover machine and he sees the floor much better than BK7; Burke plays more under control and not that wild sense of urgency, which would be good for our bigs during the course of the season.

I would trust the NBA scouts to do their job. That must have been the deciding factor when they chose Drummond. Let them all do their jobs!
I agree 100% with this Stones, and I hope Joe does just that, let the scouts do their jobs.

[deusXango]

Stones, I like your ideas and reasoning, but what I really like is the time you put into your research for your suggestions, and your forward thinking about keeping our core group together. Good stuff!

[merc]

At the price that we can get Bynum, we'd be fools to not re-sign him!

We're not likely to get anyone that knows this team as well and can be as productive as Bynum(especially at that price).

We complain about Bynum, but our complaint should be with the coaching!

If you don't use a player correctly, stuff always looks bad! The key with Bynum is to use him only when needed and in smaller doses. He's so good with this team that he doesn't need a ton of minutes to hit the floor and produce!

Orc, kinda glad you brought this up... Willy B has been an enigma for the fans... we've seen the chucker... we've seen him take over games by himself... but this guy has a heart like Zeke... unflappable, stick ya in the chest and move on to the next victim mentality... at some point we need to stop critiquing the size of the player and look at what he accomplishes on the floor... that last game was downright beautiful... if only he would look for the open man like this every game... he sure has the ability to get wherever he wants.
If we don't land Burke I'm ok with re-signing Mr. Bynum for a short deal starting at 3 mil.

[Go Stones!]

Stones, I like your ideas and reasoning, but what I really like is the time you put into your research for your suggestions, and your forward thinking about keeping our core group together. Good stuff!

Thanks for the compliments. My aim is to throw out something for people to discuss, but instead I see a lot of people who only want to see things their way. Let's have some fun! We are NOT Joe D. We do not get unlimited donuts as part of our contract with Gores. We can be wrong and it will not affect us. We may as well have fun with it.

[Go Stones!]

I see a lot of posts at Det News/Free Press alluding to the fact that Max's eye will pretty much cause Joe D not to resign him. I want to caution everyone that a lot determines how much of the retina is torn. If it has caused him to lose central or majority vision loss in one eye, he is better off not playing again. However, if you remember, Amare had a torn retina and he has worn goggle glasses ever since. I would suspect that Max could play again after the all-star game next year, assuming he is able to play again and underwent a complicated retinal surgery. Details are very sparse.

Joe D likes Max b/c he reminds him of his previous teammate, Rick Mahorn. Every team needs a bad@$$. Mahorn and Max fill that need.

They will not know 100% what type of vision loss is present until months after the surgery and healing has occurred.

**Disclaimer: I am an optometrist in a hospital-based clinic, so despite not doing retinal surgeries, I have followed a lot of my patients in this situation. Max has a lot of healing to do before he will ever consider seeing (no pun) the court again.

[Go Stones!]

Everyone has their own thoughts of who to draft. I think it should come down to drafting the best player available at that time. Do-overs would allow for us to take Melo or Wade instead of Darko. At the time it was easy to ask, "why would we need a SF or SG when we already have Hamilton and Prince who were All-Stars later that year?" Now we could see that depth is always appropriate.

Didn't we end up trading Darko for a #1 pick and got Stuckey? Hmmm...Stuckey vs. Wade...play similar position, but very lopsided comparison.

Draft the best player available and depend on your scouts' evaluations.

[WTF]

Let me change my focus for a moment from Trey Burke and place it on another Michigan Wolverine. If for some reason Mitch decides to go pro I think we should draft him as well if he's available come the 2nd round. Personally I'm hoping both he and Robinson stay another season at Michigan. Mitch already has a NBA body at 6'10 and yet even though he's raw he would be better than any reserve PF we currently have the roster. He rebounds, he defends, and can score on the blocks. Mitch has excellent hands and plays the passing lanes well and handle the ball well for a man his size. Mitch is a constant flow of energy and he would better than JJ, CV and yes even Slava. Mitch is also an excellent passer and can actually hit that mid range jumper, he might not be as good as Moose now but I can see him whipping on Moose ass in the near future. But for now I hope he's stay in school but if he's there for us in the second round we should draft him because he'll likely be a lottery pick next season if he decides to stay another year.

[deusXango]

Joe drafted Drummond...people keep saying that as if it's a reason to exonerate him for not trading Stuckey and other considerations for James Harden. He let Macklin walk (along with Big Ben because of the numbers game), but he went to Russia to sign a replacement in the dog house for twice the money. He gave up a first round pick for the privilige of sitting a $10 million player on the bench, on a bottom feeding team; reason given is for the expiring contract vs paying Gordon two more years. That Prince and Daye for Calderon better be for the same reason! Why did Scott Perry jump ship to except the same position elsewhere? Did he jump ship or was that a case of a snake slithering off to bite someone else?

Lil' Larry hasn't fielded the best team for the past two years (and everybody saw it), and someone who's basketball knowledgable has told Gores so. Even if the Pistons should win the last two games, this years record is worse than last years; don't let the total wins in an 82 game season vs a 66 games season fool you! Lil' Larry told Drummond he was going to start him the next week, but he got hurt; why not next month if it wasn't "you're starting the next game, so be ready." Fact is the Pistons were getting their asses kicked before Drummond got hurt, and the record reflects just that. For two years running, Lil' Larry saw fit to start a 6' 6" PF (with mediocre skills) over two 6' 10" big body rebounders (albeit "raw" offensively), thus leaving us a man short (pun intended), and leaving the team in a position to lose moreso than win. He talks to Mr. Gores almost daily? Who's calling who? What happens when a member of an organization continuosly ignores the chain of command?!

Welcome back to your Palace of Woe Mr. Gores; enjoy the half-time show in your half-filled stadium. Maybe, just maybe he'll find some outlandish Left coast reasoning to keep those two clowns around to eff up a draft, sign a few D-Leaguers as FA's, and otherwise blow that CAP money; next year is the year Stuckey's going to get it as a PG so trade Knight, and on and on it'll go. Tom Gores, you 'da man!!

[WTF]

I'll just say this, that if he's there when the Pistons pick he should be a no brainer and that's include picking him at #1 if so lucky. Every player is a risk drafting just ask Portland sh!t just ask Joe, but when Wade and Melo were no brainers dumbass selected Darko.

If Joe is that anal that he's to focus on the failures of Mateen to not see the obvious differences in taking a run at Burke he should be fired. If Joe is focusing on his size oppose to Burkes obvious talents he should be fired Joe and Zeke was just a hair taller. Burke has proven everything there is to prove so what more can you ask of him? he didn't win all those awards for not being able to play.

[deusXango]

WISE!!! Let me be the first to say glad to "see" you back in action and good morning. BTW if Mitch McGary comes out this year don't you think he'd go before GR lll in the first round? Not only is he better than any of our reserve PF's he's better than a lot of teams reserve bigs, and the scouts have gotten an eye full.

The anti-Burke supporters are circling the wagons, working beads, chanting spells, and placing runes in hopes that Dumars blunders and passes on Burke, now that he's declared, so your fire will be appreciated in the days to come.

[deusXango]

Trey Burke is no Mateen Cleaves, and Joe is a fool to allow that past F++k up influence his decision making when it comes to Burke, if he's available. Cleaves never won the national accolades that Burke has; he recieved too much credit for his over-hyped demeanor/antics publicly when State won, and not enough notice was placed on his short comings as a ball player. My heart sank when I heard his named called and Morris Peterson was still on the board; their longevity in the NBA vindicates my notion that Cleaves was not the best player on that championship State team....not the 2nd best either, he was just the most ball dominate. Trey Burke is none of those things. They are light years apart skill wise. We need a PG that plays under control.

[Oracle]

Hey Wise, I'm glad you're back you turd! We've been friends too long to let a few cross words do any real damage. Besides, I really want to thank you and DX for driving home the value of Burke! I don't trust Joe to draft him, but you have to believe that there is a high probability that when we pick that he'll be the best player available!

Frank scares me! I think he's a nice guy, and in general a decent coach, but he's far from the right guy for us!

I gotta tell you, I'd rather watch reruns of the shopping channel than watch Frank coach another season here!

BTW, does this picture make anyone else here uncomfortable?

[Only admins are allowed to see this image]

[WTF]

Hey Wise, I'm glad you're back you turd! We've been friends too long to let a few cross words do any real damage. Besides, I really want to thank you and DX for driving home the value of Burke! - Oracle

Words don't hurt just the Brain Freeze I get some times debating you, no need for thank I think watching Burke with your own eyes drove home what I've been saying all season about this kid. Not drafting Burke if he's on the board when Joe pick would be the biggest mistake he's made since Darko IMO.

Frank has Moose's endorsement as coach and even went as far as to put the blame on the make up of the roster. There is no denying Frank's flaws a coach and certainly his methods sucked and were painful but it proved to show us a lot (not all good)about the players on this team. Example: Stuckey's moaning about being able to only play one way is insane (what player of value would limit himself) or JJ hustles and that's great but he does not one single thing well especially on the defensive end, they don't run plays for him because he only effective when there's chaos and havoc and hustle may pay off. Neither would have made it off the bench if LB was coaching here

[Sparma]

Glad to see you back!

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