YES I'M PUMPED... er, coming back to earth?

[Oracle]

That was a HUGE game, and using your standards on Trey Burke that you use for Knight, what's your assessment?

Like Knight, he led the team in scoring, but only had 4 assists!

That's the PG of the future, that folds in a big game with #1 on the line? What a TOTAL LOSER!!!

Now, doesn't that statement I made seem stupid?

Of course it does, I wouldn't put that on that kid, just like you shouldn't put it all on Knight the sad way you do!

My position on Knight is clear!

When he fails to behave like a PG, Frank needs to sit his arse, but he can't because Joe would blow a gasket, and who wants jellies splattered all over the locker room(just kidding Joe).

But that's what needs to happen! LB took CB out when he didn't behave, and I'm sure he threatened to simply not play him if he couldn't get his act together, but Joe wouldn't screw with LB!

That's why we need a different coach! Frank may be decent, but he doesn't have the chops to do what he really wants because nobody fears him!

We need a coach that will follow his plan and take the heat from the front office to get what's needed from the players! The players will respect him and shut the eff up with the 2nd guessing in the press, and Joe will beck off!

That coach will come, but not this year, and quite frankly, we aren't ready for him yet anyways!

Knight has shown me enough to see that he is going to be a very good player, and he's like Chauncey, he'll be able to adapt! But also like Chauncey, he needs to get his SG thing going, establish his confidence, then he'll have the tools to make the transition.

This is NOT Stuckey part deux!

Stuckey is regressing again, and he needs to get a grip!

[Oracle]

As I was watching the game, I NEVER once got the feeling that Knight should be passing more!

He was playing withing the flow of the game, and I don't have a problem with less assists in that situation.

I also agree with those that note that the group he plays with present a tough way to get assists.

They're mostly plodders, with Singler being the exception, but Singler has to give up the name "Buckets", because he can't his any recently. So between Prince, Maxiell, & Monroe, as Lemonpen pointed out, they are MOST likely to put the ball on the floor before any attempt to shoot!

It would be interesting to see where Knight's assists come from, because he has a decent average as I posted a while back!

[Oracle]

Someone mentioned Prince's fake shot, and it made me laugh!

However, that fake shot of Prince's is VERY effective, it really throws most defenders off, and I KNOW they've seen the film on him, and know it's coming!

Prince is a crafty veteran!!!

[WTF]

That was a HUGE game, and using your standards on Trey Burke that you use for Knight, what's your assessment?-Oracle

Burke played bad, the team played bad. I wouldn't dare kill Trey Burke on 1 bad outing out of 17 so it's hard to give that same assessment on Burke that I use on Knight. Unless Burke runs off 11 or 15 bad games in a row like this one, like someone other PG often do I won't mention his name only then can I give the proper assessment.

But did exactly what I thought he would do and that was recover, take control and lead his team after a crappy 1st half. I doubt if Burke has another 1st half like this one, I doubt if the team as a whole has another 1st half this bad.

I certainly won't be blaming team mates and coaching for his bad game today. The Buckeyes were better than my crew tonight in the 1st half. As bad as Burke 1st half was I could still talk positively about his second effort of this game but I won't

[WTF]

You already stated that if Knight had half of what Burke got he'll be dangerous

[Oracle]

Wise, you're too funny!

If a QB throws great passes all day long, but the recievers drop them, do you say the guy just can't complete passes?

If you pass to a teammate, and they miss their shots, you don't get an assist, so who is at fault?

The fact is that an assist IS dependent on who does the shooting, great shooters will deliver more assists!

i.e. an assist is NOT technically an individual stat, but it's treated that way!

[Oracle]

Was Chauncey this great assist machine before Larry Brown?

Here's Chauncey's career numbers:
[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Here's Knight's career numbers:
[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Oracle]

BTW, I'm still high on Burke, but I was high on Mateen Cleaves too, so I know stuff can happen between college and the pros!

[WTF]

BTW, I'm still high on Burke, but I was high on Mateen Cleaves too, so I know stuff can happen between college and the pros!

Funny I never thought much of Mateen and never thought he would be worth anything in the pros so no real surprise there. I would be shocked if Burke doeasn't make the transition.

[WTF]

Wise, you're too funny!

If a QB throws great passes all day long, but the recievers drop them, do you say the guy just can't complete passes?

If you pass to a teammate, and they miss their shots, you don't get an assist, so who is at fault?

The fact is that an assist IS dependent on who does the shooting, great shooters will deliver more assists!

i.e. an assist is NOT technically an individual stat, but it's treated that way!

Yes I know sports and Knight doesn't throw great passes so that kills that analogy. But lets examine that anaolgy further hmmmmm. What makes that QB pass great? It's delivered most times where only the WR will get it, location, and speed of the ball is precise. The technique is flawless and fundamentally sound as the QB steps back surveying the field checking down his options That perfect pass is a thing of beauty.

QB is much more complex that what a PG does on a basketball court and much more difficult. Sure assist totals are alway dependent upon other players scoring baskets so it is vital that when a PG throws a pass he does it with purpose. Every pass a QB throws has a purpose and thats to advance the ball so when a PG throws a pass it should be with the sole purpose of getting a basket and that requires a PG delivering a pass that puts a player in perfect situation to score.

My issue isn't that Knight doesn't have high assist totals it the why he doesn't. Big difference in throwing to a WR TE and RB than it is to you SF, PF SG and C.

[Oracle]

Only if you FAIL to stay on task!

Nobody said any of the stuff you ADDED!

The analogy is brain dead simple, I said the QB DELIVERED the pass and it was DROPPED! Stay there, don't do what you want to do and change the subject!

Also, with Knight, stop talking about the rare blue moon bad passes, I'm talking about REALITY, you're wanting to ignore it.

Reality, Knight passes all the time, and several posters have explained to you how assists work with the players on the starting unit!

Also, you want to keep ignoring the fact that an assist is NOT an individual stat, it's a stat where the two individuals involved both recieve credit, but ONLY when the recieving party converts!

I was joking, I know you know sports, you just like to ignore the truth when it's not in your interest!

I know you Wise, lol!

[Oracle]

Well, because of your response to Grizz.

Even though I only partly agree with either of you.

You said Grizz couldn't blame teammates, and that's CLEARLY not the case, you can blame teammates for what they don't do... make shots!

However, I don't like to do that because it doesn't really get you anywhere!

But you're such an extremist, except when it doesn't suit your purposes.

So you're the one person that didn't think Cleaves was any good? Oh yeah, we'll just ignore the coaches, press, and other fans, only Wise was wise enough, lol!

You're so extreme that you couldn't even say that a lot of people thought that a PURE PG from a championship program had a good chance in the NBA, but of course the Wise one knew better.

Oops, but it happens that the Wise one loves another "pure PG" from a non-championship program, that hasn't won anything, and chokes in big games, but now, he's a sure thing, the next CP3.

Yikes!!!

[FlyDog]

Imagine this chumpsicle against NBA competition? Yikes! Dude can't hold Knight's jock. Maybe Stunky's.........

Just kinda kidding, Wise. Just want to point out that even the Cavs and the Wizarda could CRUSH Ohio State........and Knight is only 20 years old. Hell........I could put up 20 and 10 against Northwestern......

Tayshaun sucks.

[WTF]

Peterson, Hutson and Bell were the real players on that team whcih is why all three had longevity in pros they would have won that Championship with out Cleaves IMO. Cleaves was over hyped and that wasn't hard to see. Joe should have been slapped for wasting a draft pick on him.

Honestly I'm not an MSU fan so it not too many players I would hype in the Green and White. I loved Steve Smith and Respert though. Was even a big fan of Rison and never did like Magic but had great respect for the Vincent brother and even Kelser.

[WTF]

Imagine this chumpsicle against NBA competition? Yikes! Dude can't hold Knight's jock. Maybe Stunky's.........

Just kinda kidding, Wise. Just want to point out that even the Cavs and the Wizarda could CRUSH Ohio State........and Knight is only 20 years old. Hell........I could put up 20 and 10 against Northwestern......

Tayshaun sucks.

[deusXango]

So you're the one person that didn't think Cleaves was any good? Oh yeah, we'll just ignore the coaches, press, and other fans, only Wise was wise enough, lol!

You're so extreme that you couldn't even say that a lot of people thought that a PURE PG from a championship program had a good chance in the NBA, but of course the Wise one knew better.

Oracle, during States championship run, I was invited to the MSU and U of D game at Cobo, by a MSU alum...Cleaves got his ass handed to him that night, and it was obvious that he was over-rated. What I saw was Izzo's favorite child getting accolades that he didn't deserve...because he was the main recruiter for the talent coming out of Flint didn't make him a pro talent (his short lived career proves that). Time has proven that Mateen Cleaves was the weakest of the "Flintstones."

[Oracle]

He guys, it's really sad that you guys can revise history so horribly!

Cleaves was a GREAT college PG, and was the HEART and SOUL of those teams!

You're conflating college success with success in the pros, and that's why you two are loopy about Burke!

College != NBA

The really sad part is that you guys want to trash a great college career to get a few points for a bogus prediction.

The facts are left twisting in the wind... Cleaves was about the puriest PG in college, stop blowing up these guys before they prove anything,

Right now cleaves is 1000 times better than Burke, and has the rings to prove it!

[Oracle]

Don makes no bones about how he feels about CV!

I don't agree, but he's honest about his feelings!

DX, I don't think you're a Knight hater, but I think you're on the fence! At least you have some pragmatic views on how to better use him while he's learning.

Wise, I don't want to put words into your mouth, but you come across as if you just don't like Knight, but unlike Don, you won't just come out and say it.

Hey, it's stuffy and dark in that closet! Free yourself, come out of the closet and tell us the truth.

If you don't, we're going to have to send Liberace, Little Richard, and Anderson Cooper in to get you!

[WTF]

He guys, it's really sad that you guys can revise history so horribly!

Cleaves was a GREAT college PG, and was the HEART and SOUL of those teams!

You're conflating college success with success in the pros, and that's why you two are loopy about Burke!

College != NBA

The really sad part is that you guys want to trash a great college career to get a few points for a bogus prediction.

The facts are left twisting in the wind... Cleaves was about the puriest PG in college, stop blowing up these guys before they prove anything,

Right now cleaves is 1000 times better than Burke, and has the rings to prove it!

And I still say he was over-rated. Yes he was a great passer at MSU and that was about it he was slow and weak as a defender wildly over hyped because there was basically nothing to scream about at that PG position since the days of Magic. Again I never show anything special about Cleaves as a player.

No I don't think Cleaves is better than Burke largely in part that it took 4 season for Cleaves to get that Championship. Also you might want to look at Cleave's college stats before saying he's better than Burke assits wise or points.

[WTF]

Don makes no bones about how he feels about CV!

I don't agree, but he's honest about his feelings!

DX, I don't think you're a Knight hater, but I think you're on the fence! At least you have some pragmatic views on how to better use him while he's learning.

Wise, I don't want to put words into your mouth, but you come across as if you just don't like Knight, but unlike Don, you won't just come out and say it.

Hey, it's stuffy and dark in that closet! Free yourself, come out of the closet and tell us the truth.

If you don't, we're going to have to send Liberace, Little Richard, and Anderson Cooper in to get you!

I think you nailed it awhile back when you said I react to the over-hyping of Knight. I don't hate him I just don't think he's all that everyone makes him out to be. I don't see this PG in the making like most of you do and tired of this silly notion of trying to transform combo guards to play the PG position. Some say that its Stuckey all over, but I see at best another Hunter with out the defense. Don't get me wrong I love Hunter

[Oracle]

No I don't think Cleaves is better than Burke largely in part that it took 4 season for Cleaves to get that Championship. Also you might want to look at Cleave's college stats before saying he's better than Burke assits wise or points.

This is getting embarrassing, and you should be ashamed of yourself! Did YOU check the stats before poping off about Burke?

I don't think we'll be hearing anything else from you about point guards, LOL! How can one person be so far wrong? Well, you dug this hole, so I hope you stop digging!

All this, and you and DX didn't think he was worth a crap? Was it that he didn't walk on water, or part the red sea? If you guys call this overrated, you're not capable of judging a point guard, LOL!

Mateen Cleaves Excerpt(more here - [Only admins are allowed to see this link])

Michigan State's only three-time All-American in basketball ... Three-time camptain ... Ranks 14th in MSU career scoring with 1,541 points ... MSU's and Big Ten's all-time leader in assists (816) ... MSU's all-time leader in steals (195) ... Ranks among MSU's all-time leaders in 3-point field-goal attempts (5th, 457), games started (t-9th, 115), and field-goal attempts (9th, 1,331) ... 14 career double-doubles ... 74 career double-figure scoring games, including 13 20-point performances ... 18 double-figure assist games.

1999-2000: Final Four Most Outstanding Player ... Wooden All-American, Sporting News All-American, Associated Press second-team All-American, NABC third-team All-American ... First-Team All-Big Ten ... All-Big Ten Tournament Team, All-Midwest Regional Team ... Set school and Big Ten single-game record with 20 assists against Michigan (3/4) ... Led the Big Ten with 7.8 assists per conference game ... Four 19+ point games, including 24 vs. Ohio State (2/15), 22 vs. Indiana (2/26), 21 vs. Utah (3/18) and 19 vs. Michigan (2/1) ... Recorded double-figure assists in games against michigan (20 assists, 3/4), Illinois (12, 1/30) and Penn State (10, 2/23) ... Big Ten Player of the Week on Feb. 21 ... Member of NABC District 11 first team ... One of 15 finalists for the Naismith Male Collegiate Player of the Year ... One of 10 finalists for the James Sullivan Award, given to the nation's top amateur athlete ... Missed the first 13 games of the season with a stress fracture in his right foot.

[Oracle]

Finding a Niche for: Brandon Knight
May 6, 2011
Report by Derek Bodner

Brandon Knight capped off his up and down freshman season with a pair of game winners and a 30 point explosion during Kentucky's run to the Final Four, despite shooting just under 33% from the field in the tournament while committing nearly 3.4 turnovers per game, showing the quandary he places NBA decision makers in.

Those numbers may hide some of the progress Knight was making as the year went on. Knight averaged an astounding 4.7 turnovers per game over his first seven games, struggling both with his ball handling and decision making as he was playing a largely isolation game trying to make the major transition from high school to college. Knight played for a small, academic oriented high school in Florida where he was asked to play a be-all, end-all role in every moment on the court, and adjusting to the rigors of a new system on a team playing an incredibly challenging schedule almost immediately was a major learning experience for the young point guard.

As the year went on Calipari put Knight in more and more in pick and roll and dribble hand off situations, allowing the guard to take advantage of the attention he receives in these situations and generate offense for his teammates, while limiting some of the turnover problems and over dribbling that plagued Knight earlier in the season. Well known as a very intelligent player and person both on and off the court, Knight's basketball IQ improved visibly from game to game and week to week, culminating in his very impressive SEC and NCAA Tournament performances in March.

[WTF]

No I don't think Cleaves is better than Burke largely in part that it took 4 season for Cleaves to get that Championship. Also you might want to look at Cleave's college stats before saying he's better than Burke assits wise or points.

This is getting embarrassing, and you should be ashamed of yourself! Did YOU check the stats before poping off about Burke?

I don't think we'll be hearing anything else from you about point guards, LOL! How can one person be so far wrong? Well, you dug this hole, so I hope you stop digging!

All this, and you and DX didn't think he was worth a crap? Was it that he didn't walk on water, or part the red sea? If you guys call this overrated, you're not capable of judging a point guard, LOL!

Mateen Cleaves Excerpt(more here - [Only admins are allowed to see this link])

Michigan State's only three-time All-American in basketball ... Three-time camptain ... Ranks 14th in MSU career scoring with 1,541 points ... MSU's and Big Ten's all-time leader in assists (816) ... MSU's all-time leader in steals (195) ... Ranks among MSU's all-time leaders in 3-point field-goal attempts (5th, 457), games started (t-9th, 115), and field-goal attempts (9th, 1,331) ... 14 career double-doubles ... 74 career double-figure scoring games, including 13 20-point performances ... 18 double-figure assist games.

1999-2000: Final Four Most Outstanding Player ... Wooden All-American, Sporting News All-American, Associated Press second-team All-American, NABC third-team All-American ... First-Team All-Big Ten ... All-Big Ten Tournament Team, All-Midwest Regional Team ... Set school and Big Ten single-game record with 20 assists against Michigan (3/4) ... Led the Big Ten with 7.8 assists per conference game ... Four 19+ point games, including 24 vs. Ohio State (2/15), 22 vs. Indiana (2/26), 21 vs. Utah (3/18) and 19 vs. Michigan (2/1) ... Recorded double-figure assists in games against michigan (20 assists, 3/4), Illinois (12, 1/30) and Penn State (10, 2/23) ... Big Ten Player of the Week on Feb. 21 ... Member of NABC District 11 first team ... One of 15 finalists for the Naismith Male Collegiate Player of the Year ... One of 10 finalists for the James Sullivan Award, given to the nation's top amateur athlete ... Missed the first 13 games of the season with a stress fracture in his right foot.

Mateen college career stats read like this 13pt, 7.1 ast, 1.9 reb and 1.9 stl. His FG% 40% was crap and even crappier beyond the arc. I'm not even going to post Burke stats next to Cleaves and every player in college Bio includes a bunch gibberish

[WTF]

Finding a Niche for: Brandon Knight
May 6, 2011
Report by Derek Bodner

Brandon Knight capped off his up and down freshman season with a pair of game winners and a 30 point explosion during Kentucky's run to the Final Four, despite shooting just under 33% from the field in the tournament while committing nearly 3.4 turnovers per game, showing the quandary he places NBA decision makers in.

Those numbers may hide some of the progress Knight was making as the year went on. Knight averaged an astounding 4.7 turnovers per game over his first seven games, struggling both with his ball handling and decision making as he was playing a largely isolation game trying to make the major transition from high school to college. Knight played for a small, academic oriented high school in Florida where he was asked to play a be-all, end-all role in every moment on the court, and adjusting to the rigors of a new system on a team playing an incredibly challenging schedule almost immediately was a major learning experience for the young point guard.

As the year went on Calipari put Knight in more and more in pick and roll and dribble hand off situations, allowing the guard to take advantage of the attention he receives in these situations and generate offense for his teammates, while limiting some of the turnover problems and over dribbling that plagued Knight earlier in the season. Well known as a very intelligent player and person both on and off the court, Knight's basketball IQ improved visibly from game to game and week to week, culminating in his very impressive SEC and NCAA Tournament performances in March.

Knight still plays in this fashion Oracle he was never truly a PG. Sure a LB type coach can change most of it but I don't think all of it.

[Sebastian]

Finding a Niche for: Brandon Knight
May 6, 2011
Report by Derek Bodner

Brandon Knight capped off his up and down freshman season with a pair of game winners and a 30 point explosion during Kentucky's run to the Final Four, despite shooting just under 33% from the field in the tournament while committing nearly 3.4 turnovers per game, showing the quandary he places NBA decision makers in.

Those numbers may hide some of the progress Knight was making as the year went on. Knight averaged an astounding 4.7 turnovers per game over his first seven games, struggling both with his ball handling and decision making as he was playing a largely isolation game trying to make the major transition from high school to college. Knight played for a small, academic oriented high school in Florida where he was asked to play a be-all, end-all role in every moment on the court, and adjusting to the rigors of a new system on a team playing an incredibly challenging schedule almost immediately was a major learning experience for the young point guard.

As the year went on Calipari put Knight in more and more in pick and roll and dribble hand off situations, allowing the guard to take advantage of the attention he receives in these situations and generate offense for his teammates, while limiting some of the turnover problems and over dribbling that plagued Knight earlier in the season. Well known as a very intelligent player and person both on and off the court, Knight's basketball IQ improved visibly from game to game and week to week, culminating in his very impressive SEC and NCAA Tournament performances in March.

Knight still plays in this fashion Oracle he was never truly a PG. Sure a LB type coach can change most of it but I don't think all of it.

Oracle and Wise, this article and what WE have all witness of B. Knight's game and personality, is the primary reason why L. Frank must be shown the door and Isiah Thomas must be hired.

Either WE move B. Knight (which I am not a proponent of) or WE fire L. Frank and hire Isiah.

B. Knight can become a very good point guard, if coached by one of the all-time greats at the position.

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