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Prince Traded To A Contender?

Post  FlyDog on Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:13 pm

I think Memphis WAS a contender, until they traded Gay.
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Re: FORUM

Post  merc on Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:24 pm

Oracle wrote:"When Calderon is available, Pistons coach Lawrence Frank said the former Raptor will start alongside Brandon Knight, who will shift to shooting guard." - Frank

JC can't defend, and Knight, who struggles with physical 1's, is going to guard SG's?

Sounds like a political lineup... again!
IMO it would be better to have Calderon guard SGs... lesser of two evils
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Stuff

Post  Oracle on Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:10 pm

@Lemon - Fair enough!

@Fly - I actually think the addition of Prince will prove to make them a better team, and needing that shot creator at the end of games a lot less! Gay was a bad fit for the players on Memphis, but Prince is a lot better. They only lose about 4 points per game, and that's easy to make up.

@Seb - Yes, we do have to watch and see what happens, but I'm not as worried about Joe as I used to be. Before Joe could screw up, and he knew his rep was big enough to cover him. Now a screw up will get his arse fired, and that fear will keep him on his toes. But so far so good, he's truly in position to fill this team out and correct any mistakes. Nobody should feel safe, and I mean Knight & Monroe! If a young stud in either of their positions becomes available, it may not be good for their career here!

@Merc - That's a great idea, because that way, at least someone gets guarded! Knight can deal with most PG's, and what's the difference if JC gets beat, he was going to get beat anyway!
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Not Insane ...

Post  Grizz2 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:24 pm

WISEFAN wrote:
lemonpen wrote:
Oracle wrote:Frank is consistent ONLY in a few things!

1. It's guaranteed that you're going to have a horrible losing streak at the beginning of the season! This can only be attributed to lack of prerparation, a total misjudging of the situation, and not vetting players for the positions that he deploys them in!

2. It's guaranteed that he will be like a deer in the headlights when the other team makes a run, because he doesn't know why or how it happened!

3. Don, you may hope that players get played, but the fact is that it's guaranteed someone will get PT, then get forgotten for weeks. The only question is who's got next?

So you say it's a players league? Yeah, that's mostly true, but if your coach suffers from all of the above three problems, the players aren't going to get much of a chance to prove that theory!

Scan our 15 man roster and you find 2 NBA starters, Moose and Prince, neither of whom are even close to All Star quality. Every other Vet is of backup quality to some degree; some R lesser than ib/u quality if we are comparing ourselves to a playoff team. The rest vary from young-&-almost there to raw-&-unproven. Give a chef these kinds of iingredients every day and more times than not you wont like the outcomes. So why should Frank be so committed to a season long consistent lineup and or rotation. He ought to be searching. As the young guys slowly improve they need to be reassessed in different combinations / situations.

We have seen sporatic evidence of overachievement in some of our wins. The team is statistically better year over year, just not enough to wag the W/L needle, yet. If it's any comfort to youse Frank detractors, Franks season starting loosing streak has shortened each time (0-16, 4-21, 0-Cool He's lookin up !!!!!! dance

The Zen Master is famous for allowing his guys to fight through tough moments. Well, his teams didn't develop sufficient mental toughness to do that by having time outs called each and every time the opposition bowed their backs. I'm betting Frank is trying to embed that character in us.

But seriously, I'm just trying to give Frank a fair shake. So I won't be overly critical until I feel he has a roster capable of sniffing the playoffs.

The biggest mistake we make is thinking our group of players are better than what they really are which is why I'm always up in arms about the word potential.

Some of our players are talented I will admit but there is nothing special about any of them with the only exception being Drummond. There is a reason why they're only a few superstars in this league and potential isn't it.

To somehow keep insisting on blaming Frank is insane, some seem to think that Knight for example needs to be baby when in fact he needs to be benched because he has played as poorly as all of our guards. Yep we tag them as potential All Star then find every excuse in the book when they're not meeting that expectation. How about calling it like it is.

Wise ... Frank is a loser ... you just a Knight hater .. lol

(1) Frank starts Singler a SF at SG?
(2) Frank starts Jmax at PF when he cannot shoot nor defend true bigs and you have an awesome player to develop on a team that needs to develop in Drummond ..
(3) Frank leads the league in 4th quarter leads blown by a team .. The other coach makes adjustments and Frank like a deer in the headlights .. freezes ..
(4) Frank has big run after big run against the team and he doesnt get how to stop them ..
(5) Frank always blames the players .. never himself ... in public .. How realistic and how leadership-like is that?
(6) Frank had a starting unit with NO OUTSIDE SHOOTERS other than the PG Knight ..
(7) Frank has a team in development but wont even give a look at the young players for most of the season .. all of that is what you can really call insane ...
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Post  Oracle on Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:57 pm

Grizz2 wrote:Wise ... Frank is a loser ... you just a Knight hater .. lol

(1) Frank starts Singler a SF at SG?
(2) Frank starts Jmax at PF when he cannot shoot nor defend true bigs and you have an awesome player to develop on a team that needs to develop in Drummond ..
(3) Frank leads the league in 4th quarter leads blown by a team .. The other coach makes adjustments and Frank like a deer in the headlights .. freezes ..
(4) Frank has big run after big run against the team and he doesnt get how to stop them ..
(5) Frank always blames the players .. never himself ... in public .. How realistic and how leadership-like is that?
(6) Frank had a starting unit with NO OUTSIDE SHOOTERS other than the PG Knight ..
(7) Frank has a team in development but wont even give a look at the young players for most of the season .. all of that is what you can really call insane ...

Grizz, Wise hates everybody that isn't one of his favorites, but he does have some valid complaints about Knight, it's just that IMO, he carries them too far!

However, thanks for filling out the list of Frank's trangressions, LOL!

I don't hate Frank, and I actually think he would make a great assistant coach, but he's clearly out of his depth as a head coach.

Having said that, I REALLY hope he turns on his "A" game, especially if Joe makes one more good deal!
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Stop the Insanity

Post  Grizz2 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:13 pm

Oracle wrote:
Grizz2 wrote:Wise ... Frank is a loser ... you just a Knight hater .. lol

(1) Frank starts Singler a SF at SG?
(2) Frank starts Jmax at PF when he cannot shoot nor defend true bigs and you have an awesome player to develop on a team that needs to develop in Drummond ..
(3) Frank leads the league in 4th quarter leads blown by a team .. The other coach makes adjustments and Frank like a deer in the headlights .. freezes ..
(4) Frank has big run after big run against the team and he doesnt get how to stop them ..
(5) Frank always blames the players .. never himself ... in public .. How realistic and how leadership-like is that?
(6) Frank had a starting unit with NO OUTSIDE SHOOTERS other than the PG Knight ..
(7) Frank has a team in development but wont even give a look at the young players for most of the season .. all of that is what you can really call insane ...

Grizz, Wise hates everybody that isn't one of his favorites, but he does have some valid complaints about Knight, it's just that IMO, he carries them too far!

I agree Knight has been bad as PG too often .. but he plays like a SG, not a pass-first-make-a-play-for-the-other-players PG .. Whose fault is that?... that is on Frank too ... Teach Knight to be a PG or make him a SG or bench him or get a new line of work ...

However, thanks for filling out the list of Frank's trangressions, LOL!

I don't hate Frank, and I actually think he would make a great assistant coach, but he's clearly out of his depth as a head coach.

Having said that, I REALLY hope he turns on his "A" game, especially if Joe makes one more good deal!

Oracle .. what sets me off is anyone claiming that it is insane to blame Frank ... I didnt even bring up the long losing streaks to start the season ... It is insane to not blame Frank ...


Last edited by Grizz2 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Knight, watch your back!!!

Post  Oracle on Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:14 pm

IMHO, I think the Pistons have somewhat given up on Knight! I say somewhat because I think they're trying to give him a shot to change their minds, but the dream of him being the PG of the future is dimming quickly!

I say this because of the total BS that Joe is spinning in this statement...

"Dumars said he thinks the combination can work.

"I believe that having two guards that can handle the ball, that can score, that can pass, that can initiate your offense -- I think that's probably worked in Detroit before, if you've got guys that can do that," said Dumars, Isiah Thomas' backcourt running mate on two NBA championship teams.

"Our message to Brandon is simply this: It's easy to play with another guard in the backcourt with you that can do all the things that you do," Dumars added. "It just kind of makes you a two-headed monster. It's going to allow him to look to score more but it's not like we're going to take the ball out of his hands completely. We're just going to share the duties in the backcourt with this guy and we think it's going to be a good fit for him.""
- Joe

Joe refers to him and Zeke playing together, but nobody confused Joe with Zeke, and both were great scorers and just as potent defenders! With that combination, of course it will work!

Also, Zeke was clearly the man, and Joe was a decent size in that era for a SG, Knight is horribly small for a SG!

I don't know, but if I'm Knight, the real game has begun, and he better learn quick!

If I'm Knight, I pull a Stuckey and ask to be the starting PG on the 2nd unit where you can shine!
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Not a coward

Post  Grizz2 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:22 pm

Oracle wrote:IMHO, I think the Pistons have somewhat given up on Knight! I say somewhat because I think they're trying to give him a shot to change their minds, but the dream of him being the PG of the future is dimming quickly!

I say this because of the total BS that Joe is spinning in this statement...

"Dumars said he thinks the combination can work.

"I believe that having two guards that can handle the ball, that can score, that can pass, that can initiate your offense -- I think that's probably worked in Detroit before, if you've got guys that can do that," said Dumars, Isiah Thomas' backcourt running mate on two NBA championship teams.

"Our message to Brandon is simply this: It's easy to play with another guard in the backcourt with you that can do all the things that you do," Dumars added. "It just kind of makes you a two-headed monster. It's going to allow him to look to score more but it's not like we're going to take the ball out of his hands completely. We're just going to share the duties in the backcourt with this guy and we think it's going to be a good fit for him.""
- Joe

Joe refers to him and Zeke playing together, but nobody confused Joe with Zeke, and both were great scorers and just as potent defenders! With that combination, of course it will work!

Also, Zeke was clearly the man, and Joe was a decent size in that era for a SG, Knight is horribly small for a SG!

I don't know, but if I'm Knight, the real game has begun, and he better learn quick!

If I'm Knight, I pull a Stuckey and ask to be the starting PG on the 2nd unit where you can shine!

Oracle .. Unlike Stuckey ... Knight is NOT a coward ... and could care less about your warning .. Would probably have harsher words than that if he were face to face .. Monroe has had the same problem inside .. they are collapsing on him because we do not have enough shooters on the starters .. I repeat .. run a good offensive system with enough shooters to make it work and make the PG penetrate and kick out or at least run pick and rolls .. Until this happens ... only Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd would have succeeded under Frank ..
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Re: FORUM

Post  Oracle on Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:21 pm

Grizz2 wrote:Oracle .. Unlike Stuckey ... Knight is NOT a coward ... and could care less about your warning .. Would probably have harsher words than that if he were face to face .. Monroe has had the same problem inside .. they are collapsing on him because we do not have enough shooters on the starters .. I repeat .. run a good offensive system with enough shooters to make it work and make the PG penetrate and kick out or at least run pick and rolls .. Until this happens ... only Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd would have succeeded under Frank ..

Grizz, that's not being a coward, it's being smart, if faced with a lose lose situation! It's a trap!

If Knight accepts the new role and fails at SG, he's done!

If he succeeds at SG, he'll be labled a SG, but that he's too small, and again he's done.

If he goes to the 2nd unit he can succeed in his natural position, try to exploit anything he'll learn from Calderon, and excel!

Otherwise, he's going to be playing more than learning, with limited opportunity to practice new skills.
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Here WE go again, playing guys out of position ...

Post  Sebastian on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:10 pm

Oracle wrote:
Grizz2 wrote:Oracle .. Unlike Stuckey ... Knight is NOT a coward ... and could care less about your warning .. Would probably have harsher words than that if he were face to face .. Monroe has had the same problem inside .. they are collapsing on him because we do not have enough shooters on the starters .. I repeat .. run a good offensive system with enough shooters to make it work and make the PG penetrate and kick out or at least run pick and rolls .. Until this happens ... only Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd would have succeeded under Frank ..

Grizz, that's not being a coward, it's being smart, if faced with a lose lose situation! It's a trap!

If Knight accepts the new role and fails at SG, he's done!

If he succeeds at SG, he'll be labled a SG, but that he's too small, and again he's done.

If he goes to the 2nd unit he can succeed in his natural position, try to exploit anything he'll learn from Calderon, and excel!

Otherwise, he's going to be playing more than learning, with limited opportunity to practice new skills.

Oracle, forgive me man, but I have to say that I agree with you, again.

Why can't folks see that the idea, both in theory and in practice of pairing Jose and B. Knight as OUR starting back court the minute that Calderon resolves his Visa situation is the same foolishness that continues with OUR roster -- playing guys out of position?

Remember Austin Daye the power forward (never should had been mistaken to being a NBA power forward); or Maxey as OUR starting PF (Maxey is best as the 8th, 9th, or 10th man, a banger with six fouls); or Stuckey as OUR starting SG (Stuckey is best as OUR 6th-man, third guard); or Singler as a starting SG (probably best as a 7th, 8th, or 9th man); and the saga appears to be continuing with the inane idea of B. Knight, as a starting SG. This will not work. B. Knight will be force to expend additional energy on the defensive end, as well as the offensive end because he will be guarded by bigger guys, too.

I say use Calderon sparingly, if not moved before the trade deadline, and use his expiring contract to get a real starting SG (Mayo) or real starting SF (Josh Smith).

Joe has got to be smart going forward.
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Yeah .. you are a coward ...

Post  Grizz2 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:33 pm

Oracle wrote:
Grizz2 wrote:Oracle .. Unlike Stuckey ... Knight is NOT a coward ... and could care less about your warning .. Would probably have harsher words than that if he were face to face .. Monroe has had the same problem inside .. they are collapsing on him because we do not have enough shooters on the starters .. I repeat .. run a good offensive system with enough shooters to make it work and make the PG penetrate and kick out or at least run pick and rolls .. Until this happens ... only Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd would have succeeded under Frank ..

Grizz, that's not being a coward, it's being smart, if faced with a lose lose situation! It's a trap!

If Knight accepts the new role and fails at SG, he's done!

If he succeeds at SG, he'll be labled a SG, but that he's too small, and again he's done.

If he goes to the 2nd unit he can succeed in his natural position, try to exploit anything he'll learn from Calderon, and excel!

Otherwise, he's going to be playing more than learning, with limited opportunity to practice new skills.

Oracle ... Yeah . If you dont want to play ... you are a coward . .... and it is not smart .. because you wont get better not playing the best ... Knight is young enough to develop against the best .. The main concern is his head coach is dumb .. and doesnt understand the game nor react well ...

On the other hand .. Frank has gotten better .. not fast enough . and wish we never had to deal with the guy .. If Knight succeeds with Frank as the head coach .. Frank gets credit ... I feel more like whatever prorgess Knight has made has been inspite of Frank, not because of him ..

You either believe in yourself or you dont ... Of course the GM Joe has played guys out of position for the past 4 seasons to damaging effect ... So has Frank these past 2 seasons .. Knight cannot control that .. Man up .. face up to the challenge .. or quit the NBA .. Once you doubt yourself like Stuckey has .. it is close to being all over .. Of course, Stuckey has some excuse in having 3 straight clown coaches ..

Oracle, respect to you, Wise, Lemon, and Sebastian for your opinions .. Fine, we disagree a little or a lot .. But when Knight does well .... Own it .. I will do the same if he fails as an NBA player ..
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Gizz

Post  Oracle on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:42 pm

I understand how you feel, but you can't be something you're not, and it's not a question of manning up, but we'll see.

BTW, Knight has answered tonight!

He's doing it all, scoring assisting, blocking shots, and as I write, only 1 turnover!
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Middleton

Post  Oracle on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:57 pm

That was a very sweet stroke he showed on that shot!
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Knight: JC Who???

Post  Oracle on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:02 pm

Knight BLOWS up tonight!!!

20 points, 10 assists, 6 boards, 1 block, and 2 steals with only ONE turnover!
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Singler: Prince Who???

Post  Oracle on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:05 pm

20 points, 8 boards, and 3 blocked shots!
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Knight & Singler

Post  Oracle on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:09 pm

One thing is obvious!

These kids are FIERCE competitors, and will rise to a challenge!

What a performance by two players that clearly want to send the message that they are the future!

Message noted, now go out and learn how to do this on a nightly basis!

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Re: FORUM

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