Re: FORUM

[Murph]

See...now this is exactly what I'm talking about. I would seriously rather have Javale McGee than Meyers Leonard, straight up. IMO, Leonard is a high risk pick; he might work out, or he might turn into Cole Aldrich.

Meanwhile, you know what you're getting in JaVale McGree. He's a guy that's going to give you some efficient scoring, 9 rbds a game, and is going to block 3 shots a game, which is 2nd in the NBA among centers.

Harrison Barnes I can understand. Eventually, after he works his way up through the depth chart past Prince and Singler and Jerebko and Daye...after a couple of years, Barnes is going to turn into a big, very productive SF.

But Meyers Leonard??? Come on...

i've just seen small bits of leonard, and i've taken a look at youtube stuff.
he looks like a very skilled big man. much, much more skilled than aldrich. the only thing they have in common is their skin color, and the problem of being categorized as big, white stiffs.
leonard has small forward-type skills in a 7 foot body. he reminds me a lot of the kid milwaukee just drafted out of wisconsin, jon lauer, though leonard appears to be a bit bigger. it will be interesting to see what he measures out to, at the combines.
aldrich's biggest problem is his size. he's only 6'9", though he has a nice wingspan. but unlike some guys who are his size, he doesn't really have a lot of skills to compensate for his lack of size. he plays a seven footer's game, without the size. he could get away with it in college, but not in the pros. most PFs and C's are bigger, and there are lots of wing guys who are right near his size. i'm surprised that OKC took a shot at him, as they've done a great job with their drafting. maybe he will still find a niche, but he will have to adjust, imho, his game accordingly. he can't be the biggest, baddest guy out there anymore. he will have to add a few more skills.
if aldrich had leonard's ball skills, he'd have been a top 5 pick.

Aldrich was listed at 6'11 1/4 at the draft combine. [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

And I don't want my center playing with "small forward type skills in a 7 foot body." I want my center playing with center type skills, such as superior shot blocking and rebounding, both of which Leonard lacks, at least on the college level.

And the problem is that enough of this guys turn into "big white stiffs" that is makes drafting them a high risk proposition. In fact, I can only think of a couple of decent American born white centers in the nba...Kaman and Hawes. Byron Mullens might eventually to develop into a decent center.

Please Joe...take a pass on Leonard.

[frankied]

don't know how many folks know it, but back in the day, pam and paula tore up michigan high school basketball.
twins, they dominated for a flint school.
don't remember which flint school, but they basically ruled girls basketball in michigan before they went to USC together.
he does have good genes. no doubt about that.
i'm willing to give him a shot. if i'm joe, i'm trying to trade for him or sign him as a free agent. trading for him is a safer route, frankly, as you get his bird rights, and you also establish a relationship with him that can only help.
my only issue is with the idea of giving up a high lottery pick for him.
while he is potentially a valuable piece, his value on the market is not very high now, and any trade should reflect that reality.
he's blown up in washington's face. there is always the chance the same thing could happen here. as an organization you have to take that into account. and giving up a shot at a guy with enormous upside and no issues of that sort - like a davis or kidd-gilchrist or robinson - doesn't make sense.
it would, however, be intriguing to see him come here, and be put under the specific tutelage of ben wallace. specifically, ben, as his big man's coach, as orlando has done with ewing and howard. if he is as bright as he seems to be, and if he is motivated to improve, it is kind of scary how good he could be, defensively, if he picks up s few solid defensive principles.
he could be as good as a guy like nate thurmond or clifford ray, or he could be a bigger, stronger david robinson.

[Murph]

it would, however, be intriguing to see him come here, and be put under the specific tutelage of ben wallace. specifically, ben, as his big man's coach, as orlando has done with ewing and howard. if he is as bright as he seems to be, and if he is motivated to improve, it is kind of scary how good he could be, defensively, if he picks up s few solid defensive principles.
he could be as good as a guy like nate thurmond or clifford ray, or he could be a bigger, stronger david robinson.

Exactly!!!

[frankied]

imho, leonard is just an intriguing prospect. not sure if i'd draft him, given the chance, but he is intriguing because of his combination of size and skill.
aldrich is a weird case. he measured 6'9" in bare feet and added 2&1/4 inches when he put his shoes on.
i smell funny business going on. i actually watched the combine on espn and it was an issue that the broadcasters and scouts brought up and discussed. no one accused him of anything, but they did note that the differential was very unusual.
who knows.... maybe shoe inserts...
normally, it doesn't matter, the difference between the two measurements, as the one with shoes is obviously most relevant. they play with shoes, not in bare feet.
but because his size was a real issue before the draft, and because of his style of play, his actual height may be more of an issue than it typically is. he is, a true center, and not a guy, like monroe, with the skills to play the 4. especially because he is not a really big, beefy guy, but more a slender guy, who is not that strong.
i was never an aldrich fan, but, as noted, maybe OKC will be right about him after all.
i actually hope he gets a chance. i am always in favor of young players, no matter whether i like them or not, getting a chance to succeed or fail on their own merits.

[frankied]

it would, however, be intriguing to see him come here, and be put under the specific tutelage of ben wallace. specifically, ben, as his big man's coach, as orlando has done with ewing and howard. if he is as bright as he seems to be, and if he is motivated to improve, it is kind of scary how good he could be, defensively, if he picks up s few solid defensive principles.
he could be as good as a guy like nate thurmond or clifford ray, or he could be a bigger, stronger david robinson.

Exactly!!!

trust me...i understand the upside of mcgee and am more than willing to see the team acquire him and give him a shot. he has the chance to be the best defensive center in the league, and that includes howard. howard is, amazingly, nowhere near as fluid an athlete as mcgee. he's stronger, which is why mcgee has trouble with howard now, but mcgee has the athleticism of a great shooting guard, while howard is fast and quick for a guy his size, but doesn't have the flexibility of a guy like mcgee. mcgee would be more like a bigger, stronger, more athletic version of marcus camby, which is very nice, indeed.
i simply believe that you only do a trade for him at a reasonable market price. if he was someone who was languishing on a bench and didn't have some of the negatives, then a bigger gamble might be warranted, imho.
but we know some of his issues and they have to be taken into account in any sort of transaction for him.

[FlyDog]

Or..............He could remain a look-at-me, mama's boy BUM.

[frankied]

i forget who stated it, but it was certainly kind of blind. in other cities, even sports journalists do their jobs. they tell it like it is, in howard cosell's immortal words.
detroit fans get a skewed idea about what goes on in other cities because of the horrible journalism in detroit.
this is from the washington post. what detroit writer would have the guts to write this?

Wizards Coach Flip Saunders fired: Ernie Grunfeld needs to go next

By Jason Reid, Published: January 24

Presumably, Washington Wizards owner Ted Leonsis is only getting started. And if so, he’ll soon announce even bigger, needed changes. Although Tuesday’s firing of beleaguered coach Flip Saunders was inevitable, Leonsis clearly left the job half-done.

He took the easy route in choosing to treat a symptom of Washington’s sickness rather than targeting its cause. Leonsis’s approval of the decision to make Saunders the fall guy for yet another embarrassing Wizards season (is there any other kind?) prompts an obvious question: So when does team President Ernie Grunfeld get the boot?

Once Leonsis accepted that his house was in disrepair, which has been painfully obvious for weeks, replacing the architect should have been his opening act. Leonsis needed to begin with the person most responsible for the franchise’s long-running ineptitude: Grunfeld, the head of Washington’s basketball operation since 2003, whose contract expires after this season.

Through a team spokesman, Leonsis declined an interview request after Tuesday’s news conference at Verizon Center to introduce former assistant Randy Wittman, who has the job for the remainder of the season. No matter. There’s little Leonsis could have said to justify the weak move.

“This is a black mark on all of us,” Wittman said.

Excising Saunders from the Wizards’ dysfunctional situation is like arresting a lowly accomplice while permitting the mastermind to go free. First and foremost, this is Grunfeld’s mess, and so far, Leonsis has let him off the hook.

Even for a team in the second season of a rebuilding project, the Wizards are horrid. After watching Washington’s dispirited performance during Monday’s 103-83 blowout loss to the Philadelphia 76ers, I figured Leonsis would have to do something soon.

Remember: This was all expected, according to Leonsis. The plan was unfolding as envisioned — that was Ted’s take.

It’s fine to stay on message about your “plan.” Marketing slogans about “New Traditions” have their place. When teams exhibit little effort, as the Wizards did while going through the motions on the road and dropping to 2-15, the person ultimately in charge actually has to lead.

After Washington’s awful performance the past two seasons, and Grunfeld’s poor judgment while enabling the Wizards’ high-profile knuckleheads through the years, Leonsis needs to initiate an organizational purge. So far, he has ignored the biggest problem.

The Wizards coddle their players, offering excuses for their missteps. Each time the Wizards fire a coach, they validate their players’ repeated acts of ignorance.

Why should Andray Blatche attempt to do better when he plays in an organization that apparently places little value on accountability? How is JaVale McGee expected to learn the right way when, eight days after Saunders took issue with his showboat dunk, the coach is the one taking the blame for this disaster of a season?

Is it any wonder the players had tuned out Saunders? And when Saunders gets fired just 15 days after management declared his job safe, is it any wonder they don’t take anything seriously?

With Wittman now leading the team, the Wizards have had four coaches since the 2008-09 season. During that span, they have a record of 70-193. Before he joined the Wizards, Saunders was a successful NBA coach with a good reputation. His teams won at least 50 games in seven seasons.

So perhaps instead of rotating through coaches, the Wizards need to look at the constants: poorly constructed rosters and warped organizational culture, which all begins with Grunfeld.

During Tuesday’s news conference, Grunfeld passed on the opportunity to step up. He should have shouldered responsibility for assembling another awful roster. He could have apologized for giving Blatche a five-year, $35-million extension.

Instead, he abdicated responsibility for what has befallen an organization he has led for nearly a decade.

“We had issues that happened to us that really were out of anybody’s hands the last two, three years,” he said, “and then we had to go in a different direction.”

Grunfeld shouldn’t be blamed for Gilbert Arenas’s incomprehensible decision to bring guns into the locker room. Grunfeld, however, has to be held accountable for an environment in which the immature guard felt empowered to do as he pleased. And when it comes to the organization’s overall lack of discipline, Grunfeld should raise his hand on that one, too.

The Wizards believe their record should be better. They’re hoping Wittman provides a spark. Maybe he will. Even if he does, though, it won’t be enough to overcome Washington’s talent deficiencies and having too many guys with no concept of what it takes to play winning basketball.

Saunders simply had no idea what he was getting into with the Wizards. It wasn’t just that Arenas was an unpredictable loon. The team chemistry was awful, people familiar with the situation say, because of the Arenas-Caron Butler situation, and all the bad habits young players had learned.

Exactly how was Saunders supposed to develop basically an entire roster when many players figured they could ignore him without repercussions?

Saunders didn’t sign Blatche to a deal that basically made him untradable. Saunders didn’t commit the organization to developing McGee, who doesn’t realize it’s a bad idea to go for a look-at-me dunk with the Wizards trailing in another eventual loss?

“We have to continue to work with them,” Grunfeld said of the team’s players in general. “We have to be patient with them. And we have to grow together with them.”

The time for patience is over. A new direction is needed. Go ahead, Ted: Finish the job.

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[frankied]

last year a controversy came up, when i suggested that daye should, like durant did, start at 2 guard. the idea was that he could start there, and as he got stronger, move to the front court. i brought up the example of kevin durant.
well, lots of folks disputed that durant had ever played SG. i recalled it because i see lots of western conference BB and durant was in seattle that year and i kept pretty close tabs on him.
well, in today's news, frank talks about durant and other matters related to OKC. and he remembers durant, at SG.

“They had some tough times,’’ said Coach Lawrence Frank of the Oklahoma City franchise. “... I remember Durant’s rookie year Damien Wilkins was the starting small forward and Durant was starting at two-guard.’’
[Only admins are allowed to see this link]
i still think that daye's best position, now, is at SG. at least for a couple more years.

[Fennis Dembo]

frankied,
If you change the place and names in the article it would pretty much describe the Pistons.

[FlyDog]

Durant is much more athletic than Daye. Daye can't dribble or pass. It may very well be his best position............but he's not very good at it.

I have to say that Jason Maxiell has the worst hands in the League right now. Can the guy hang on to ANYTHING besides his spot in the rotation? The guy has more problems than an algaebra test.

[Rett]

gettn' my PISTON Fix!!



GO PISTONS!!!

[FlyDog]

Preparing myself for the game too!

GO PISTONS!!!!!!!!!!!!(Clapping smiley face, both guns blazing, big thumbs up........mustache falls off).

[frankied]

frankied,
If you change the place and names in the article it would pretty much describe the Pistons.

yes.
but is there a single detroit writer who would write such a column?
is there a single detroit writer who has asked dumars tough questions about the disasterous moves of the last 4 years?
course not.
they go along and act as though nothing is wrong and that everything is proceeding as is normal.
if you've read the news or freep the last few years, the team is just like it was in the glory years...they just don't get as many wins.
the strongest word anyone ever uses is "disappointing".
as in CV has been disappointing....etc...its a joke...
and again, if you read papers in other markets you see that other markets treat their teams very differently.

[frankied]

links?

[Oracle]

links?

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Oracle]

Daye may have found his shot!!!

[FlyDog]

What a Half for Austin Gay!

Greg Monroe is being bitched by Joel Anthony. He looks like a D-League scrub out there. Where's the enthusiasm? Gay and Knight look terrific. Wade is starting to look like Barry Bonds, with his gigantic head and jaw. HGH.............anyone?

[Flip]

What a Half for Austin Gay!

Greg Monroe is being bitched by Joel Anthony. He looks like a D-League scrub out there. Where's the enthusiasm? Gay and Knight look terrific. Wade is starting to look like Barry Bonds, with his gigantic head and jaw. HGH.............anyone?

[FlyDog]

Agree..........disagree..............?;-)

[Grizz]

last year a controversy came up, when i suggested that daye should, like durant did, start at 2 guard. the idea was that he could start there, and as he got stronger, move to the front court. i brought up the example of kevin durant.
well, lots of folks disputed that durant had ever played SG. i recalled it because i see lots of western conference BB and durant was in seattle that year and i kept pretty close tabs on him.
well, in today's news, frank talks about durant and other matters related to OKC. and he remembers durant, at SG.

“They had some tough times,’’ said Coach Lawrence Frank of the Oklahoma City franchise. “... I remember Durant’s rookie year Damien Wilkins was the starting small forward and Durant was starting at two-guard.’’
[Only admins are allowed to see this link]
i still think that daye's best position, now, is at SG. at least for a couple more years.

But that doesnt mean Daye should be a SG .. Durant has speed and agility ... so he could ..Daye does not ... and it messed him up to even try .. But he is doing just great in today's game

[Grizz]

Playing him at PF (just starting Wilkens at SF is an admission of this: i.e. JJ cannot even play SF well enough to start, let alone PF) was a mistake mentioned many many times by many of us at this forum ... This is what happens to young players being run through Joe Dumars Frankenstein experiments of playing players out of position because Joe is such a lazy dumb ass about keeping the team stocked with all positions .. and the result is OUT OF POSITION moves HURT the player's chances to develop skills and confidence for the NBA game .. as well as wrecking the team's chemistry .. Daye at SG ... JJ at PF .. Jmax at PF and Center .. Stuck at PG .. Wasnt good for the vets either (Prince at PF AND SG, Rip at SF, ect.) Shame on you Mr. Dumars and shame on the Press for not getting on Dumars' case for pulling and pushing such crap ..

The Heat are a good example of how even having 3 of the top 10 players in the game isnt enough to win a championship .. still lacking bigs .. still lacking a pg ... You would think Pat Riley was smart enough to know that .. And the added wear and tear of another season .. especially a compacted one ... will mean Miami will be a weaker team this year .. which Heat haters like us will love ..

[Oracle]

The arse whooping I was expecting!

If the Pistons can stay this close to a team this athletic and fast, they have no excuse for getting blown out(at least at home) anymore, IMO!

[Grizz]

Blaha must be going crazy ... Pistons hanging in there .. Daye is a big lift today ... and they are winning the battle of the boards .. victory or just moral victory .. good work Pistons and Mr. Frank ..

[frankied]

Blaha must be going crazy ... Pistons hanging in there .. Daye is a big lift today ... and they are winning the battle of the boards .. victory or just moral victory .. good work Pistons and Mr. Frank ..

gee...imagine that ...a shootter breaking out of a slump...

[Oracle]

Austin Daye draws the double team, and get fouled, hitting both shots to bring us within 2 pts!

This is a good game to watch, and no matter how it turns out, the Pistons are showing me a LOT!!!

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