You're right!

[Oracle]

Well, that effectively dismisses every reason you gave for Maxiell starting!

Drummond has not only been better than Maxiell, he's been better than ANY Piston on this team, and doing it in a LOT fewer minutes!

You know I love you Murph, but this promotion of Maxiell to starter doesn't pass the sniff test, it just plain stinks!

And exactly where in my post did I ever once promote JMax or give a give a reason that he should be starting???

What I said was that if Frank starts JMax for the first half of the season, I'm not going to get all worked up about it. And I'm sure not going to get worked up about it in the pre-season. Now if Maxiell continues to start after the trade deadline, I'll join the lynch mob...but not yet.

IMO, Frank has earned a certain about of leeway to exercise his won judgement.

You didn't promote JMax... well, at least not directly.

However, the term today would be enabler.

How could you be "Ok" with a person that out and out LIES to your face, to the media, the team, and Piston nation?

What philosophy makes it ok for Drummond to win a position beyond any doubt, and still play behind an inferior player.

Well, there's one, but you'd have to state it upfront!

I could come up with valid reasons to have Maxiell start for a few months, and it would go like this.

I'm not competing a position on this team from a bunch of preseason games! Positions on this team are earned from consistent regular season play over some time period.

When I feel someone deserves a position, then I'll make that happen.

Unfortunately, Frank didn't do that, and he should be held to his own statements and standards.

Does this make me think less of him as a coach? Truthfully, YES!!! Am I ready to replace him? No, but there's another strike against him!

That's why I liked Carlisle & LB! Both did what they wanted to do, and didn't make stupid promises that backfire in their faces. Carlisle's mistake was failing to recognize that Prince, while not as experienced as Curry, had certain matchup advantages, but he never promised a competition(except in his head).

[Oracle]

I see Jonny Flynn and Terrence Williams have been released.

That means that Austin Daye and Charlie V have made the 15 man roster.

Neither of whom can throw a rock in the ocean and draw water.

[cool breeze]

Do any of you lose interest in the Pistons as soon as the starting unit is announced? This unit just doesn't work and never will in my opinion. We all know that Jason Maxiell could not make the starting lineup of any other NBA team in the league. Many of us suspect that Jason is only playing because the Pistons are trying to trade him. My observations show me that Monroe is still an extremely poor defender who continues to chase guards as far out as the half court line. WHY? Maxiell looks like a NBA guard with more weight. He is not Charlie Barkely Mr. Dumars and never will be able to rebound like Barkley Mr. Dumars. The more he plays the less chance the Pistons will have to trade him. Make him the mystery man. Perhaps that might attract a second round draft choice. Prince is the other player who just doesn't look good in this pre season. It is clear to me that Kyle Singler is quicker on both ends and is a better passer. No plays have been created for Singler by the coaching staff. Why? Jerebco is now a better choice at small forward than Prince. Jerebco is working his ass off but the coaching staff ignores his effort. A starting lineup of Monroe, Drummond, Stuckey, Knight and Singler would bring that special chemistry a team needs to win games. Off the bench, Bynum is still not a capable player and will never be able to run a team playing point guard. Why is the coach insisting that Bynum is going to play that position? The guards who play need to be Knight, Stuckey, English and anybody but Bynum. Try Prince at point forward. He is not getting it done at small forward. However, he is smart and can set up an offense.

Trade as many of the older players as possible for draft choices. U of Arizona had their Red & Blue game this past Sunday. The game had been a sell out for some time. The 1988 team was introduced and Steve Kerr, Jud Bushler, and Sean Elliot gave great speeches with the current team watching and listening to what they had to say. They all talked about chemistry and how players have to work especially hard to create the kind of chemistry that allows teams to become winners. I especially liked Jud Bushler's talk. He was on the 3rd team early on in college but knew he had to support the players who actually played in games so he became that special practice player that every team needs to improve from day to day. Jud eventually became a first team PAC 10 player and has 4 or 5 NBA championship rings. He mentioned his time sitting on the bench for Chicago where he went back to being a practice player much of the time but had the opportunity to practice daily against Michael Jordon. He said it was character building and even though the fans might not know or care he knew that he was becoming a better player and person while flying under the radar. The current Arizona team is full of All American High school players. There were 4 NBA teams who had scouts at this inter squad game. There was nobody there from the Piston organization. A Boston scout was there and I talked with him some. He mentioned that it is no secret that the current young players are so much further advanced and have a different work ethic than players had in the past. We Piston fans can see that in Brandon Knight. Arizona has three new big men. There center is 7 foot and has gained 25 pounds since June and still has only 9 percent body fat. All of the players are under 10 percent body fat. This is why it is silly for the Detroit News to mention that Jason Maxiell has lost a lot of weight over the summer. Maxiell has been informed by his agent what the young 18 year old players have been doing in the weight room and conditioning. If I were a GM now, I would be trying to dump as many older big men as possible. A new age is coming. It is clear that Drummond makes the team better. Jerebco is also ready to make his mark. "The Russian" has a gift that no other big on this team will ever have. He is quick to the ball and has a nose for the basketball. He can sense where the ball is coming off the rim much like Dennis Rodman. Would the current management be sitting Rodman in favor of Maxiell? Maxiell, Daye, Charlie V and Bynum have no business being on any NBA team. Yet they made the team. You cannot afford to sit the real players if you intend to become successful. Perhaps Frank and Dumars are working too hard for this new owner and are worried that they will be fired if the wins don't come quick. Basketball is not complex. All you need to do is keep it simple for the players and let the best players play in the games. So far, if the best players are the starters on this Piston team, then this management team is in big trouble.

[Oracle]

Good post Don, and chemistry 101 dictates that you can't produce the result you want if all the ingredients aren't mixed TOGETHER!!!

So playing Maxiell, Prince, and you fill in the name of the player that needs to be traded, is one more day that the chemistry we need won't be developed!

We've found the core, let's give them a chance to grow and develop that chemistry, so that we'll know what else we need, and who are the ultimate keepers!

[cool breeze]

Good post Don, and chemistry 101 dictates that you can't produce the result you want if all the ingredients aren't mixed TOGETHER!!!

So playing Maxiell, Prince, and you fill in the name of the player that needs to be traded, is one more day that the chemistry we need won't be developed!

We've found the core, let's give them a chance to grow and develop that chemistry, so that we'll know what else we need, and who are the ultimate keepers!

Yes Oracle. The coach believes that he has had some success with Maxiell in the lineup in the past with the record the Pistons had after he inserted Maxiell in the starting lineup. So does the coach have as his team goal to play 500 this season? Dumars knows better. He has been around for as many seasons as we have watching so many attempts to blend Maxiell into the rotation. I am not saying that he shouldn't be in the rotation if he has stood out during practice for this training camp. Perhaps he has earned it. But based on the actual pre season performances, Maxiell comes in just above Daye as far as I am concerned. And I do not fault Maxiell's effort. He is giving a great effort. I wonder if Prince would look better with one of the other bigs. The offense is so disfunctional, we see Prince trying to create something. He dribbles because nobody is open as the shot clock is winding down. Notice he can never pass the ball to Maxiell during those times. Teams will make sure Monroe is not an option. So that leaves nobody Prince can pass the basketball to down low when he is doubled. On defense, Monroe is out of position beyond the free throw line too much. That leaves the the short Maxiell to guard the paint.

[deusXango]

How could you be "Ok" with a person that out and out LIES to your face, to the media, the team, and Piston nation?

What philosophy makes it ok for Drummond to win a position beyond any doubt, and still play behind an inferior player.

Well, there's one, but you'd have to state it upfront!

Unfortunately, Frank didn't do that, and he should be held to his own statements and standards.

Does this make me think less of him as a coach? Truthfully, YES!!! Am I ready to replace him? No, but there's another strike against him!

What the Oracle said.

[cool breeze]

NBA TV did a team profile on the Pistons, finally, and the host/commentators were Sam Mitchell and Bill Laimbeer; they seem to agree with 90% of the fans opinions on the direction of the team....playing the kids and loosing is better, and more productive than loosing with the vets. This coming from veteran players, with successful coaching potential (given the level of talent our current Pistons have). The nerve of them. For all that can, I suggest that you give that profile a watch; it'll show the mindset of who we're rooting for in Lil' Larry, and how futile this effort may turn out to be.

I saw that too. One flaw they mentioned more than once was our lack of perimeter shooting. I wonder how management & staff see that issue and how it effects their decisioin making regarding CV and Daye. Honestly, I've been impressed by Jerebco's outside shooting. (when his feet are set)

I have also noticed that Jerebco has really worked on his outside shooting. He can really take it to the rim for a guy his size too. We fans are lucky to be able to watch Jerebco play ball. He goes all out all of the time and he is a smart player.

The direction of this team will be determined by the fans in the end. The fans will not turn out for the current starting 5 unless they are really winning a lot. The fan base will increase even if the team loses if management decides to go with the young guys. Now perhaps Joe Dumars is trying to trade Prince, Maxiell, Daye, Charlie V and Bynum. If he could pull that off and get a few draft choices before January removing at least 2 of those players, Mr. Gores might see more fans attending the games. If not, and fans see who is starting and playing the most minutes and those players are the same old crew, the owner will not be a happy camper. In the end, the fans who drive in the snow at night will not turn out just to watch non basketball entertainment.

[Murph]

"You didn't promote JMax... well, at least not directly."

Correct. I didn't promote JMax at all.


"However, the term today would be enabler."

What's an enabler? This is sports, not psychoanalisis.


"How could you be "Ok" with a person that out and out LIES to your face, to the media, the team, and Piston nation?"

Everyone lies to my face. Politicians lie to my face. Business people lie to my face. Journalists lie to my face. And sports figures, such as athletes, coaches, GMs and owners, lie all the time. Why should I get upset when Frank lies?


"Does this make me think less of him as a coach? Truthfully, YES!!! Am I ready to replace him? No, but there's another strike against him!"

No, I don't want Frank replaced at this time either.


But I agree. What Frank should have said was: "When I feel someone deserves a position, then I'll make that happen."

[Sebastian]

Damn! Not that either of these two guys would have made it possible for US to be playing in June, but releasing T. Will and Flynn means that Pistons fans will have to be subjected to the same ole shitty roster, B. Knight, Stuckey, Moose, Jerebko, and Dre Drummond, not included.

[Grizz2]

Do any of you lose interest in the Pistons as soon as the starting unit is announced? This unit just doesn't work and never will in my opinion. We all know that Jason Maxiell could not make the starting lineup of any other NBA team in the league. Many of us suspect that Jason is only playing because the Pistons are trying to trade him. My observations show me that Monroe is still an extremely poor defender who continues to chase guards as far out as the half court line. WHY? Maxiell looks like a NBA guard with more weight. He is not Charlie Barkely Mr. Dumars and never will be able to rebound like Barkley Mr. Dumars. The more he plays the less chance the Pistons will have to trade him. Make him the mystery man. Perhaps that might attract a second round draft choice. Prince is the other player who just doesn't look good in this pre season. It is clear to me that Kyle Singler is quicker on both ends and is a better passer. No plays have been created for Singler by the coaching staff. Why? Jerebco is now a better choice at small forward than Prince. Jerebco is working his ass off but the coaching staff ignores his effort. A starting lineup of Monroe, Drummond, Stuckey, Knight and Singler would bring that special chemistry a team needs to win games. Off the bench, Bynum is still not a capable player and will never be able to run a team playing point guard. Why is the coach insisting that Bynum is going to play that position? The guards who play need to be Knight, Stuckey, English and anybody but Bynum. Try Prince at point forward. He is not getting it done at small forward. However, he is smart and can set up an offense.

Trade as many of the older players as possible for draft choices. U of Arizona had their Red & Blue game this past Sunday. The game had been a sell out for some time. The 1988 team was introduced and Steve Kerr, Jud Bushler, and Sean Elliot gave great speeches with the current team watching and listening to what they had to say. They all talked about chemistry and how players have to work especially hard to create the kind of chemistry that allows teams to become winners. I especially liked Jud Bushler's talk. He was on the 3rd team early on in college but knew he had to support the players who actually played in games so he became that special practice player that every team needs to improve from day to day. Jud eventually became a first team PAC 10 player and has 4 or 5 NBA championship rings. He mentioned his time sitting on the bench for Chicago where he went back to being a practice player much of the time but had the opportunity to practice daily against Michael Jordon. He said it was character building and even though the fans might not know or care he knew that he was becoming a better player and person while flying under the radar. The current Arizona team is full of All American High school players. There were 4 NBA teams who had scouts at this inter squad game. There was nobody there from the Piston organization. A Boston scout was there and I talked with him some. He mentioned that it is no secret that the current young players are so much further advanced and have a different work ethic than players had in the past. We Piston fans can see that in Brandon Knight. Arizona has three new big men. There center is 7 foot and has gained 25 pounds since June and still has only 9 percent body fat. All of the players are under 10 percent body fat. This is why it is silly for the Detroit News to mention that Jason Maxiell has lost a lot of weight over the summer. Maxiell has been informed by his agent what the young 18 year old players have been doing in the weight room and conditioning. If I were a GM now, I would be trying to dump as many older big men as possible. A new age is coming. It is clear that Drummond makes the team better. Jerebco is also ready to make his mark. "The Russian" has a gift that no other big on this team will ever have. He is quick to the ball and has a nose for the basketball. He can sense where the ball is coming off the rim much like Dennis Rodman. Would the current management be sitting Rodman in favor of Maxiell? Maxiell, Daye, Charlie V and Bynum have no business being on any NBA team. Yet they made the team. You cannot afford to sit the real players if you intend to become successful. Perhaps Frank and Dumars are working too hard for this new owner and are worried that they will be fired if the wins don't come quick. Basketball is not complex. All you need to do is keep it simple for the players and let the best players play in the games. So far, if the best players are the starters on this Piston team, then this management team is in big trouble.

Thank you!

[Grizz2]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Murph]

Yes...good article...thanks Grizz.

Oracle, after giving this debate some consideration, I think that we agree in principle. We only differ on timing. We both agree that Drummond is better than JMax, and that AD should start.

It's just that where you want him to start on opening night or sooner, no if ands or buts... I'm willing to give Frank until the trade deadline (Feb. 21) to start Drummond. Maybe Dumars and Frank have a plan that might work, such as getting JMax into game shape to trade him. Lately, Frank and Dumars have been making pretty good decisions. So I'm willing to give them the benifit of the doubt for a few months.

So we basically we have a difference of opinion of 3 1/2 months.

[deusXango]

"Set aside the reservations about Drummond's heart and motor that dogged him coming out of UConn last spring. The Pistons benefited from the slide to No. 9 that might have inspired, and it's on them to get the most out of their budding asset.

Drummond's gotta play for three reasons. First and foremost, he has talent to size and size to flaunt, with the ability to rebound and protect the rim that comes with standing 6-foot-10 and 270 pounds. In practices and scrimmages so far, Drummond has impressed Detroit coaches and players with his aggressiveness and eagerness to learn.

Another reason Drummond needs to play is, whatever concerns scouts had about his weight coming into the league, sitting on the side isn't going to help. After a summer of hard work, the rookie needs to maintain his body and that means game shape, not pedaling a stationary bike after a bunch of CD-DNPs.

Third, the more Drummond plays -- along with import Slava Kravtsov -- the sooner Frank and the Pistons can get on with Greg Monroe's full-time shift to power forward. The 6-11 Georgetown product has a knack for smart passing that could make him the focal point of Frank's offense, especially if he's able to operate more from the high post.

Monroe has worked on his handle and honed a midrange jump shot over the summer. Freeing him from center duties and fast-tracking some frontcourt chemistry with Drummond would be good for both of them and the rest of the Pistons, too."

-NBA.COM

This is the point I've inadequately been trying to make for the longest; Andre Drummond is our promising young center, with proven talent, and Greg Monroe is unquestionably our best PF! The comparisons made between Maxiell and Drummond at PF, are like the unexplained need to not start Drummond until........when? They're shameful attempts to keep Maxiell in the starting lineup (fans hate the idea), and put him in a position to be re-signed by us again. Playing Maxiell over Monroe at PF, at the expense of sitting our center Drummond, infers that #1 Maxiell is indespensible, and #2 there is a danger in starting Drummond, somehow, and #3 (the most ridiculous of all) Maxiell is a better fit at PF than Monroe. All are untrue!!!
Andre Drummond is arguebly the most athletic center drafted by the Pistons in the 1st round, and for that reason, inline with what he's shown so far, he should start his career in Detroit, in the starting lineup, on opening night. There's 81 more games left for Lil' Larry to make a fool of himself trying to be the show, and dazzleing us with his coaching genius.

[WTF]

Yes...good article...thanks Grizz.

Oracle, after giving this debate some consideration, I think that we agree in principle. We only differ on timing. We both agree that Drummond is better than JMax, and that AD should start.

It's just that where you want him to start on opening night or sooner, no if ands or buts... I'm willing to give Frank until the trade deadline (Feb. 21) to start Drummond. Maybe Dumars and Frank have a plan that might work, such as getting JMax into game shape to trade him. Lately, Frank and Dumars have been making pretty good decisions. So I'm willing to give them the benifit of the doubt for a few months.

So we basically we have a difference of opinion of 3 1/2 months.

I agree that this kid should open the season starting. If Jason was impacting games ala Big Ben then I could see where Drummond might not get the start. Sorry but jason stats don't even warrant him being on the team yet alone starting ahead of Drummond, JJ, or Cv for all that matters.

There is no real common sense reason that this kid shouldn't be tossed to the fire day 1.

[deusXango]

What exactly would the indicators be that he's ready? Lil' Larry has gone on record saying, "he's got a loong way to go.."; has he forgotten he's coaching a lottery team? What does he expect from, at least, the 3rd or 4th best player on his squad? Scheeech! Opening night, Lil' Larry!!!

[Oracle]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Only admins are allowed to see this image]

[Oracle]

Yes...good article...thanks Grizz.

Oracle, after giving this debate some consideration, I think that we agree in principle. We only differ on timing. We both agree that Drummond is better than JMax, and that AD should start.

It's just that where you want him to start on opening night or sooner, no if ands or buts... I'm willing to give Frank until the trade deadline (Feb. 21) to start Drummond. Maybe Dumars and Frank have a plan that might work, such as getting JMax into game shape to trade him. Lately, Frank and Dumars have been making pretty good decisions. So I'm willing to give them the benifit of the doubt for a few months.

So we basically we have a difference of opinion of 3 1/2 months.

Actually we mostly disagree about Frank.

I can respect your position, even though I disagree.

Franks actions don't match his words, but I do have to conceed that WAY too many officials, etc., lie to us on a regular basis... disturbing trend!

[deusXango]

If Andre Drummond is not prepared to take his rightfully earned spot, on this team, at this time, it stands to reason that Khris Middleton, Kim English, and Kyle Singler (not to mention our other big beast, Slava Krastov), are light years away from being considered for Lil' Larry's regular rotation. As the season progresses, they will disappear into hidden practice sessions, and be cloaked behind DNP-CD's. When Ellis, Langlolis, and Goodwill get through putting their spin on why for Lil' Larry, those players will be Europe bound, and their professional careers effectively ended. Don't pooh-pooh me, just keep an eye on it.

For his exemplary contribution to the team (ignoring the fans ire), Maxiell will be given a new contract next spring; T-Will will be brought back to replace the departed English (he's not good enough to avoid this years cut), and if Daye can manage to average 7-8 pts. we'll continue to wait for him to blossom into something. The damnedest thing is, this will all happen because we flirted with the 8th playoff spot or made it! Good golly, Miss Molly! This is how inspired I am by liars....I see the worst in them and don't trust them as far as I can throw them....no matter who they are!!!! This is a game that shows an enormous profit because we the fans pay to see it played in an entertaining fashion.

[Murph]

Moving on from the Andre Drummond discussion for a moment...is anyone encouraged by the fact that the Pistons are going to be carrying 5 promising rookies on their roster?...Drummond, Kravstov, Singler, English and Middleton? That represents a full third of the roster.

Furthermore, it's entirely possible that the Pistons will carry 4 rooks on their active 12 man roster...Drummond, Kravstov, Singler and English. Again, that represents a full third of their active 12 man roster. (I am hoping that CV or Daye will join Maggette on the inactive list, along with probably Middleton. Neither CV nor Daye have done anything this fall to warrant a spot on the active 12 man roster.)

So for those who want all the mediocre vets to be gone sooner rather than later, and to be replaced by promissing rookies...hope is on the way. That is indeed the direction the Pistons are moving.

[Murph]

The other issue that could be bothering Pistons management is this: If they move Monroe to the starting PF spot, and move Drummond to the starting center spot, that doesn't leave a lot of reserve centers on the roster. The only center we would have on the roster to back-up Drummond is Kravtsov, and quite frankly, while he's demonstrated a certain amount of potential, Kravtsov has not played all that well this fall.

So such a rotation would leave us pretty thin at the center position, and would require that Drummond play something like 32 mpg and Kravtsov something like 16 mpg. As much as I like Drummond, I don't think he's ready to play 32 mpg as our starting center, nor do I think Kravstov is ready to play 16 mpg as our reserve center.

[deusXango]

Murph, my objection is being forced to play "small ball" for extended minutes at a time. Don't like it, never did, and don't believe it's effective in winning championships, unless you've got personel comparable to the Miami Heat. Consider this time distribution (let the coach figure out when and how): Drummond 20-25 minutes, Kravtsov 10-12 minutes, and Monroe 10-15 minutes. Maxiell would have plenty of minutes coming off the bench, and would probably be more effective.

I applaud Joe, because after all, this is a rebuild; the more youth we have, the more candidates we have to evaluate for who's gonna stick and stay, and who just don't fit. What's wrong with Middleton? I'm thinking that he's been consistently improving, particularly since the competition has been getting stiffer. Let's not let Monroe's work to prepare to play PF go to waste. I want to see what he can do there, as much as anything else.

[Murph]

Murph, my objection is being forced to play "small ball" for extended minutes at a time. Don't like it, never did, and don't believe it's effective in winning championships, unless you've got personel comparable to the Miami Heat. Consider this time distribution (let the coach figure out when and how): Drummond 20-25 minutes, Kravtsov 10-12 minutes, and Monroe 10-15 minutes. Maxiell would have plenty of minutes coming off the bench, and would probably be more effective.

I applaud Joe, because after all, this is a rebuild; the more youth we have, the more candidates we have to evaluate for who's gonna stick and stay, and who just don't fit. What's wrong with Middleton? I'm thinking that he's been consistently improving, particularly since the competition has been getting stiffer. Let's not let Monroe's work to prepare to play PF go to waste. I want to see what he can do there, as much as anything else.

DX...good post. I agree with everything you wrote.


Just a general FYI: I looked it up. So far this pre-season, Kravtsov is averaging 7 mpg, 2.2 ppg, 2.4 rpg, and is shooting 50%. He's played 5 games and got a DNP in 1 game.

So I think some of us are jumping ahead, by assuming that Kravtsov is ready to take a spot in the regular rotation as our reseve center. Hopefully, he'll pan out, but he's not a sure thing.

Patience, Pistons faithful.


Nothing's wrong with Middleton. But I can't see 5 rookies sticking on the 12 man active roster. 1 or 2 of the rookies probably won't make the active roster.

[Grizz2]

I think everyone is making good points about young player development .. even those who say we all need to relax and wait and see .. I think the reason many of us have this "unreasonable" kind of impatience is because of what has been happening over the past decade or so .. (1) Young players got little playing time (2) Young players were played OUT of position (more than a few!), (3) Some of these younger players affected by the (1) and (2) .. didnt exactly recover .. I think we could look at Afflalo, Amir, and Carlos whatzhis name and even Darko as doing better elsewhere as signs things were not handled well here concerning player development . .. When we were loaded with talented players AND had a GOOD HEAD (Carlyle, Brown, Saunders) .. a poor job of developing youth did not show up as easily as bad moves since we were winning .. But then Joe sent in the CLOWN COACHES (two!) and everything that happened with a WACK Roster ... Jmax playing center .. Daye playing SG ... old guys like Wilkins and Russell JR WITH NO TALENT at all with NO future at all .. got more playing time than the young guys we could have tried to develop .. That is why we are all a bit uneasy .. Maybe Frank IS a good coach who CAN develop young players ... Almost certainly JOE D has learned his lesson on a number of screwy approaches like trying to field a team made up of SGs and SFs .. BUT .. I think we can all be forgiven for being a bit trigger happy ...I guess we have to wait and see how it plays out for a few weeks to really know how Frank is going to approach coaching this team .. I seem to be hearing him being about winning AND developing .. I dont know if that is the right approach since I believe both are rarely achieved in a single season or 2 .. It also has not helped that Prince and Jmax and Stuckey for that matter .. do NOT seem like they have a lot of talent or basketball smarts or will power to TAKE THIS TEAM TO WIN MANY GAMES .. I doubt Prince's motivation and what he has left in the tank at his age .. I doubt that Stuckey has come through his PG experiment and 2 clown coaches without most of his full potential permanently wrecked ..I doubt Jmax has the physical talent to match up with any true PFs except the 2nd tier ones at end of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd quarters for more than 10 minutes a game .. Those 3 are 3 out of the 5 starters .. To me .. that means that (1) this team cannot win if those 3 start and so (2) the Pistons have to go in a completely new direction .. I still am afraid Joe D may want them to start to prove his GM decisions with them were good ones, and that Frank just feels more comfortable with VETS there so he will be under less pressure to teach and show tangible improvement in the young guys .. IMO, it would be far better for Joe to admit secretly to himself that he screwed up, and then just announce we are going to go young almost from the get go.. My best guess is that the Pistons will lose a lot of games starting out and then the whole approach will shift to playing the young guns more and more if the GM and HC are smart ..Frank's position seems to be on thin ice based on an owner who wants to make the play-offs ..That is very unfortunate . . I am very sure this team would do better in development and in wins IF we went full bore youth development rather than letting certain VETS get in the way .. Really . it is time to clean house even if that means benching these VETS .. I would rather see what Frank has got as a coach to develop a system to develop the team with the young players as the core, rather than balancing VET egos of VETS who have SHOWN US NOT MUCH in talent, teamwork or leadership … and whose court time would conflict with team development .. What I fear is that what will take place is sort of a mix of trying to win and trying to develop and the result is a VERY great number of line ups will be experimented with THAT WILL CONFUSE THE HELL OUT OF ALL CONCERNED… WHEN what Frank should do is develop the best, most stable and non-experimental system and player rotations for team youth development .. and stay the course .. Teaching the young guys how to get better but staying the course .. and not plugging Prince and other vets out there hardly at all .. even though they earn the big paychecks .. I guess if we do lose a lot of games ..the 1st pick for dumping Ben G wont come into play next draft …. That sounds great … Anyway .. Coach Frank .. prove me wrong .. and start Prince, JMax, and Stuckey .. and win even half your games ..

[deusXango]

Jonny Flynn and Terrence Williams, who were invited to camp to compete for the backup PG slot, were sent packing earlier this week, and no one seemed to care. If you can't convincingly beat out Will Bynum, who should care? T-Will was the best offensive facilitator, and defender, but lacked the overall skills (outside shot) of a good PG. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if he showed up in a Pistons uniform later.

With our need to save money, and have a substantial backup for Knight, I wonder why Joe didn't invite Scott Machado to camp right after the draft? It's not like he didn't realize the predicument we were in concerning PG play. Maybe, as some have pointed out, it would've been too many young'uns.

Murph, a word on Kravtsov; how about if he added a few bone-jarring screens, and about 5 hellacious fouls (not the snot bubble type), just good hard "don't try that again" fouls...could we sneak him in the back door of the rotation for those 7 minutes?

[deusXango]

Hey man, that was a damn good post...very thoughtful and true.

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